davmor2Riddell: You still about?00:01
davmor2Meh I'll take the deafening silence as a no then :)00:04
Riddelldavmor2: hi00:04
Riddellif I'm not around, tis only because I'm busy testing installs :)00:05
davmor2Riddell: query on #u-testing about kubuntu languages00:05
davmor2heno: is testing them as that is what the re-roll was for00:05
ryanakcaRiddell: is alternate testing of any use? Or are the alternate CDs standard across Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Kubuntu and already thoroughly tested?00:26
Riddellryanakca: all testing is good, although alternate's havn't changed today, desktop has (and dvd will shortly)00:35
* ryanakca nods00:36
ryanakcaRiddell: Desktop CDs still don't support LVM?00:36
Riddelldon't think so00:36
ryanakcaAlternate it is :)00:36
* ryanakca just has to finish backing up 70G of homedir... *yawns*00:37
Riddellryanakca: bonus points if you can fill in any gaps in http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/kubuntu/all00:38
ryanakcaRiddell: will try00:39
=== stevie is now known as vorian
Riddell"robustifies"  /me eyes up nixternal01:31
=== txwikinger is now known as Guest41891
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
nixternalRiddell: robustifies? I am affraid to ask03:18
Riddellnew DVD images are about to appear03:22
nixternalaren't you up a bit late?03:26
nixternalI just found a pub in Chicago too that provides irn bru :)03:27
nixternalI had bangs and smashers for dinner and a few irn bru :)03:27
rgreeningmmm irn bru04:39
=== rraphink is now known as raphink
davmor2Riddell: aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm being attacked by light bulbs11:20
* ryanakca scratches his head12:05
Tm_Tdavmor2: ok12:05
davmor2Tm_T: Yes now the attack of the info light bulb's is over I had about 7 all saying the same thing12:06
apacheloggerdavmor2: I know that feeling13:09
apacheloggerwhom may I abuse for wiki editing?13:10
* apachelogger still can't login13:10
apacheloggerthey know about it13:15
apacheloggerRiddell: what's with the speaker icon in your systray?13:43
apacheloggerlooks horrible13:44
Riddellapachelogger: where?13:45
Riddelloh, corruption13:45
Riddellnot sure13:45
RiddellI get that a lot13:45
apacheloggerno, I mean it looks like the KDE 3 icon13:45
Riddellthat was an imcomplete upgrade13:46
Riddellwe need to make gwenview and digikam live alongside13:46
* apachelogger is looking forward to the day the last KDE 3 package gets kicked/replaced13:47
davmor2Riddell: threaten them with a big hammer work for me :)13:47
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: please take a look at bug 25860613:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 258606 in kdebase "Text trunicated in Dolphin" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25860613:48
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: okies13:49
apacheloggersebas: what is the new ETA?13:49
davmor2Strange question that I'd never thought to ask before.  On Alternate installs why is the default host name Ubuntu even on other desktop installs?13:51
sebasapachelogger: I guess somewhen late this afternoon13:52
* apachelogger notes to go jogging in the evening13:52
sebasNot *my* problem :)13:52
apacheloggersebas: I guess kubuntu is 100% ready13:53
* sebas is 85% ready13:53
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: I can't reproduce with a new user13:59
JontheEchidnaI think the issue is lower level13:59
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: no13:59
JontheEchidnafiddly font DPI and resolution stuffs13:59
apacheloggerfont size13:59
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: people with a visiual impairment tend to increase the font size a lot14:00
apacheloggerespecially since the uber useless kde desktop zoom doesn't work with $mousewheel14:01
JontheEchidnameta + =14:01
* apachelogger implements revision locking in neon14:01
JontheEchidnanot very good usability14:01
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: exactly14:01
JontheEchidnacuz grandma knows what "meta" is14:01
sebasapachelogger: delayed again, some soname problem14:02
apacheloggerwell even if $user knows what meta is... it still is not handy14:02
JontheEchidnawell, that too14:02
apacheloggersebas: that at least doesn't mess up my jogging schedule ;-)14:02
* JontheEchidna goes to up the font size14:02
apachelogger        if revision14:03
apachelogger            cmd += " -r #{revision}"14:03
apachelogger        end14:03
apachelogger<3 ruby :D14:03
sebasapachelogger: someone screwed the sonames because of your jogging schedule.14:04
apacheloggerI shall never leave the PC anymore14:05
rgreeningyeah, so which key is supposed to be Meta anyway :) (I'm grandpa)14:05
ScottK-laptopSo is ark known to be broken or is it just me?14:05
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: can't reproduce with a font size bigger than that of the screenshot, which was complaining about the default font size anyway14:06
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: broken?14:06
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: works here with 16pt14:06
* JontheEchidna ups the size moar14:07
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: For example if I ark [filename].tar.gz ark opens and has the name of the file with an unzip type icon on the right side, but never shows the contents of the file.14:07
ScottK-laptopSame it I use file/open.14:08
ScottK-laptopsame if I click a link in Konqueror (say for a build log on LP).14:08
apacheloggerbuild log is known14:08
apacheloggerark can't handle gzipped files14:08
apacheloggershould work with tar.* though14:08
ScottK-laptopOK, well almost all I ever use if gzipped stuff.14:08
ScottK-laptopSo works fine except for what I use it for then.14:09
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: still works with 16 pt14:10
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: Doesn't work on .deb's either, so no ar files.14:10
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: well, go to 3214:10
ScottK-laptopThat'd be the other thing I use it for.14:11
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: take a look at launchpad14:11
apacheloggerthere was a report about .deb14:11
apacheloggerupstream fixed it IIRC14:11
* JontheEchidna remembers a .deb bug too14:11
apacheloggermaybe only in trunk14:11
apacheloggerbut I think it was a simple change ot a desktop file since the ark backends can technically open .deb files14:11
ScottK-laptopWhich package is ark in?14:11
apacheloggersebas, Riddell: btw, how does one get on the KDE packager list?14:13
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: pretty much everything is too big to be usable at 32 pt14:13
Riddellapachelogger: ask dirk is what I did14:14
sebasapachelogger: I guess email sysadmin14:14
Riddellyeah, sysadmin14:14
apacheloggeroki, thx14:14
RiddellCC me for credibility I guess14:14
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: the widgets should scale with the content14:14
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: The .deb bug is a different one than I experience.  It works in Hardy and before using command line ark [filename].deb.  Not in Intrepid.14:15
JontheEchidnawell, they do, to a point14:15
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: the dolphin information panel doesn't, maybe you don't notice because of dpi14:15
apacheloggercertainly happens here14:15
JontheEchidnawell I can hardly triage a bug I don't get :(14:15
* JontheEchidna pats his dpi14:15
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: well, take a look at the upstream bug14:15
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: you should just forward it :P14:15
apacheloggerI get it and the reporter does as well, which makes us 2 :P14:16
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: I found the KDE bug for lack of gzip support and linked it to the LP bug.  It's still open.14:22
ScottK-laptopI have to think about this, but ark being useless for me may well be the straw that breaks the camel's back.14:24
ScottK-laptopI don't suppose there's any way Kubuntu Hardy can be made retroactively LTS?14:25
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: doubtable14:26
apacheloggernext LTS could only be 10.04 anyway14:27
apacheloggerbut as discussed at the last meeting we are trying to provide 8.04 -> 9.04 as upgrade path14:27
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: OK.  I just don't see how this is going to be usable for me.14:28
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: ark or the upgrade path?14:28
ScottK-laptopI'll stick with it a bit longer and see, but as pretty as it is, it's significantly harder for me to use.14:28
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: KDE 4.1.2 in general.14:28
ScottK-laptopThe biggies are ark, lack of the tooltips, and overall stability.14:29
* apachelogger didn't have problems with stability TBH14:29
apacheloggerbut yeah, ark is missing a lot of stuff14:29
ScottK-laptopSo far (and I don't know if it's Intrepid or KDE) about every other day when a sit down at my desk, my system is crashed.14:30
apacheloggerI already thought about backporting the whole trunk ark, but it doesn't qualify quality-wise14:30
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: crashed in what way?14:30
ScottK-laptopI had one kdepim crash that I managed to report.14:30
ScottK-laptopThere's a python dbus thing.14:30
ScottK-laptopOnce I clicked on update rss feeds in Akrogator and X died, but I couldn't get a crash report out of it.14:31
ScottK-laptopFor my laptop, the stability is adequate, but not great.14:32
ScottK-laptopThe missing functions are much bigger.14:32
ScottK-laptopI use ark a LOT in my Ubuntu work.14:32
ScottK-laptopI normally have several dozen windows open and without the tooltips there is just no way to work with them.14:32
JontheEchidna^lack of multiline taskbar hurts that too14:33
apacheloggerwhy did that get removed anyway?14:33
JontheEchidnaapachelogger: never got reimplemented after Wigets-on-canvas14:33
apacheloggerScottK-laptop: I don't use ark at all right now14:33
apacheloggerthe gzip file issue hurts too much14:34
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: nice :S14:34
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: Right.  So how do you look at build logs?14:34
apacheloggerwget & gunzip & kate14:34
* JontheEchidna loads them up in firefox, because it displays diff.gz's like a dream14:34
JontheEchidnakonq can't do that for all it's swiss army-knifity14:35
apacheloggerit depends on the kio slaves14:35
apacheloggerand those are really bound to ark's functionallity14:35
JontheEchidnagziptext:// ?14:35
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: gzip or something14:35
apacheloggerbzip2 also14:35
apacheloggerin KDE 3 konqui used to open such files (at least local ones) with the kio slave14:36
apacheloggeruntil we kds'ed it to use ark :P14:36
ScottK-laptopYep.  Build log works in Firefox.14:38
apacheloggersince you both got firefox... one of you could edit https://wiki.kubuntu.org/IntrepidIbex/Beta/Kubuntu :P14:38
apacheloggerthe menu paths are missing for everything but knetworkmanager14:39
apacheloggerwhich is confusing14:39
apachelogger+ the knetworkmanager one says kmenu ->14:39
apacheloggershoudl be application launcher ->14:39
JontheEchidnaso for adept do we want to show installer or manager?14:40
JontheEchidnaAdept is the only one that needs anything too14:40
JontheEchidnaeverything else runs automagically14:40
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: installer14:41
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: maybe reorder the entries14:41
apacheloggerKDE, Adept, knmw, other fancy stuff14:41
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: mornfall's blog URL needs to be changed to beta214:42
apacheloggerand please prevent the camelcase autolinking14:43
apacheloggerPyQt4 goes into nowhere, NetworkManager redirects like 3 times14:43
JontheEchidnahow do you prevent that?14:44
* JontheEchidna never figured that out14:44
apacheloggerif possible the images should be float:right14:44
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: dunno, rtfm :P14:44
* JontheEchidna tries something14:45
JontheEchidnaha, I did it14:46
JontheEchidnainsert an empty bold tag14:46
JontheEchidnain between py and qt414:46
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: try !NetworkManager14:46
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: ``NetworkManager14:47
* apachelogger finds that confusing14:47
JontheEchidnadonna worry, everything's good now14:48
apacheloggerTo keep a word like PageName from automatically being turned into a link, use Page``Name. (The problem with doing this is that it will prevent a simple search for the word "WikiName" from matching Wiki``Name in a page, due to the inserted characters.)14:48
apacheloggerTo keep a word like PageName from automatically being turned into a link, use Page``Name. (The problem with doing this is that it will prevent a simple search for the word "WikiName" from matching Wiki``Name in a page, due to the inserted characters.)14:48
JontheEchidnaexcept I forgot to move desktop effects down14:48
apacheloggerYou can also suppress WikiName linking by putting an exclamation mark (bang) before the WikiName, i.e. !WikiName. This is available by default, but can be disabled with the configuration option bang_meta = False. Using this method will not interfere with most searches for the escaped WikiName, with the exception of certain quoted phrases and regular expressions.14:48
apachelogger<3 <nowiki> from mediawiki :P14:49
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: KDE needs an INFO URL14:50
JontheEchidnathere is no 4.1.2 release page yet iirc14:50
apacheloggertake the 4.1 one14:50
apacheloggerholds more information anyway14:50
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: and I think you broke the syntax14:51
apacheloggereverything from adept onwards is italic now14:51
apacheloggerryanakca: who is working on a wiki theme, btw?14:51
=== davmor2 is now known as davmor_biab
=== davmor_biab is now known as davmor2
jjessewhat are the dates again for UDS Moutnain View?15:47
jjesseis that week of 12/8?15:48
Riddell8th to 12th15:48
jjessetold boss right dates15:48
rgreeninghave they announced yet the people who got sponsored?16:01
davmor2rgreening: 7th16:02
jjessergreening: nope just need to specify the weeks for my boss in case i do get the sponsorhsip16:03
rgreeningoh, thought it was today for some reason16:03
Riddellapachelogger: 4.1.2 release tomorrow morning it seems16:10
apacheloggerRiddell: we probably should go to bed early ;-)16:35
apacheloggerJontheEchidna: very valid pov in most recent comment on bug 22341216:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 223412 in kdebase-workspace "Global shortcuts don't always work" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/22341216:39
JontheEchidnayeah, saw that16:40
JontheEchidnabut I really don't know what we can do16:40
JontheEchidnathe dude who broke khotkeys in the first place doesn't know how to fix it without a redesign16:40
apacheloggerit is only partly broken anyway16:50
ScottKapachelogger: Perhaps that should be the KDE 4.1 theme, "well, it is only partly broken".16:57
apacheloggerit is also partly broken in KDE 3.516:58
apacheloggerbut I am a fan of  the theme "it is not broken, it is KDE"16:58
ScottKRight, I was thinking more broadly than that specific issue.16:59
ScottK-laptopapachelogger: file-roller seems not to bring in too much more in terms of Gnomish stuff than I had already and does GZIP just fine.  I think between that and debc I can likely manage.17:28
ScottK-laptopBah.  Nevermind.  File-roller won't open it via a web link.17:41
ScottK-laptopI guess Firefox for that.17:41
ScottK-laptopRiddell and apachelogger: Given the heavy use of gzip in Debian package management, I'm thinking not having a GUI tool that does gzip is a 'bad' thing.  What would you think of adding file-roller to kubuntu-desktop to fix that?17:49
Riddellit's gtk...17:51
ScottK-laptopRiddell: That's true, but we have no KDE tool and no hope of getting one before release.17:52
ScottK-laptopI think it's better to have a 'contaminated' set of packages that provides more complete functionality.17:53
Riddellark seems to read .tar.gz files fine17:53
ScottK-laptopRiddell: In Intrepid?17:53
* ScottK-laptop hands Riddell Bug #276236 and asks for help then.17:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 276236 in kdeutils "[Intrepid] ark fails to open .gz file" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27623617:54
JontheEchidnayeah, it opens tar.gz's fine but not diff.gz17:54
JontheEchidnaor plain .gz, it seems17:54
* Riddell away17:55
ScottK-laptopWell if diff.gz and .gz only matter to me, I've fixed it myself locally.17:56
JontheEchidnaI always installed xarchiver, KDE3, because ark was stupid back then. but then xarchiver started segfaulting on tar.gzs....17:56
JontheEchidna*even in KDE317:56
ScottK-laptopI added firefox to the applications for gzip so I can right-click on build logs and open with firefox.17:57
JucatoSettings -> Configure -> Genral -> Browse through archives18:00
* ScottK-laptop is allergic to fish.18:01
ScottK-laptopActually not, I just don't particularly like Dolphin.  Konqueror works better for me.18:01
Jucatoif you enable that in Dolphin, Konqueror gets it as a bonus too18:02
* ScottK-laptop tries18:03
* NCommander gives ScottK a shot of an epipen18:06
ScottK-laptopJucato: Thanks.18:07
JucatoScottK-laptop: np18:07
Jucatostill doesn't solve the lack of a right-click option on archives though :(18:07
ScottK-laptopnor reading LP build logs off their web page.18:07
Jucato*sigh* ark...18:08
ScottK-laptopOK.  If rgreening will give me my tooltips back, I think I can live with this.18:08
Jucatowhich tooltips?18:08
ScottK-laptopFor open applications on the task bar.18:09
ScottK-laptopWhen you've got ~25 windows open there is no way to tell what's what.18:09
Jucatoright.. specially since the taskbar doesn't go to two rows atm...18:10
ScottK-laptopYes.  That makes it double plus unfun.18:10
Jucatonot sure if tooltips are back in 4.2... iirc aseigo disabled them again due to some serious bugs18:10
ScottK-laptopSomeone said they were and rgreening was working on a 4.1 patch.18:10
Jucatooh goodie :)18:11
ScottK-laptopLast I heard was "compiles, but doesn't work".18:11
* Jucato needs one tooltip.. for the clock...18:11
Jucatotimezones tooltip/balloon18:11
jjessewhat is the notification mean that my language support is not complete?  english is greyed out that i can't select to install18:14
ScottKAny idea on why the card faces for kdegames card games look uneven in kde 4.1.2 (they did not in 4.0.3 and the graphics files are identical AFAICT)?18:40
rgreeningScottK: JontheEchidna and I were both working it. Though mostly Jon. I helped get past some compilation issues. I think he's real close now... \o/ tooltips.18:46
ScottKrgreening and JontheEchidna: Thanks to you both for your work on it.  It'll be a huge difference for me if we get it working.18:49
rgreeningScottK: know any python?18:49
* rgreening needs to implement some file locking checks... and it stumped18:50
* JontheEchidna is downloading the next round of debs to test18:50
eagles0513875would love to help you guys out18:50
eagles0513875have no idea how to program in python18:50
eagles0513875and lectures are consuming tons of my time18:50
ScottKrgreening: I do know some python.18:50
rgreening\o\ \o| |o/ /o/ *the wave*18:50
rgreeningScottK: any idea on how I can check if a file is locked (i.e. opened by another process)18:51
rgreeningbasically, trying to mod update-notifier-kde to check for package db lock18:51
ScottKrgreening: opened by another process and locked are two different things.18:52
rgreeningmake more sense now?18:52
rgreeningSo, the notifier has some signals, displays icons and sets actions. I want to hide the icon if /var/lib/dpkg/lock is in use by a package manager and unhide it once freed.18:53
rgreeningany suggestions?18:53
rgreeningor some python app which may already implement this so I can scarf it18:53
ScottKDoing some looking around.18:54
ScottKI think you need something dpkg/apt specific, not generic locking.18:54
rgreeningyes. if there are methods modules that exist, even better18:54
rgreeningI can import them18:54
ScottKrgreening: Nothing leaps out at me.19:07
rgreeningme neither.... just found something on fcntl module... may try that19:07
ScottKrgreening: The only think I can think of is to try to acquire the lock in a try statement and then assume it's locked if it fails and release it right away if it succeeds.19:08
ScottKYou wouldn't want to try that at a high frequency though.19:09
rgreeninghmm... true19:09
rgreeningthere's got to be a bettwr way...19:10
ScottKfcntl is the right module though.19:11
ScottKI checked python-apt and it didn't appear to offer anything immediately helpful.19:11
ScottKrgreening: Sorry.  No better ideas here.19:25
rgreeningnp... I'm trying the fcntl. Let's see if it kills my system...19:26
rgreeningScottK: I just realized, I cannot open the file to try and lock, as it requires sys privs... hrm19:51
ScottKI didn't realize is ran with user privs.  I'm pretty sure there's no way to do it then because you can't even read the file.19:52
rgreeningexactly. back to the drawing board.19:55
rgreeningdoh.. least I learned some Python in the process.19:55
* JontheEchidna is about to throw his next try at tooltips to his ppa19:57
rgreeningScottK: I was thinking on using a system call to 'lsof', but the file access only shows up if called with admin privs. lol20:15
rgreeningScottK: So, I am left with using 'ps' and grepping for apt-get, aptitude, adept, synaptic I guess... not really very good...20:16
ScottKNo.  Not good at all.20:17
jjesseis the daily current build the beta test canddiate?20:23
jjessecause i've had no problems in my vm with it20:23
ScottKIf it's the most recent one currently available, then yes.20:25
ryanakcaapachelogger: nobody at the moment... poke newz2000 if you would like to help / take care of it :)21:32
Riddellhttp://www.kubuntu.org/news/8.10-beta ta da21:38
* ryanakca looks21:38
* ryanakca wonders if he should erase the alternate CD he burned yesterday and burn the Beta's alternate21:39
ryanakcaAny changes?21:39
ryanakcaOkies, thanks21:39
ryanakcaRiddell: very pretty... did you want to bring down the rest of the stories under the image, or no?21:41
Riddellryanakca: I did that21:42
* ryanakca gets a screenshot21:42
Riddelllook at www-admin21:43
ryanakcaRiddell: wierd... meanwhile, www.kubuntu.org shows http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/kubuntu.png ..21:45
Riddellhave patience, the cache will catch up21:47
* ryanakca grins21:47
smarterRiddell: great, but the kmix icon on the screenshot is an oxygen icon :/21:49
Riddellsmarter: is not an oxygen one21:51
Riddellsmarter: is hicolour21:51
Riddellfixes welcome21:51
smarterhmm, yeah I mean crystalsvg21:51
smarterit's strange, since it uses the oxygen one on my system21:51
Riddellsmarter: it didn't upgrade properly21:56
ScottKRiddell: Any idea why we have openoffice.org-evolution in the Kubuntu.Intrepid supported seed?22:16
RiddellScottK: probably just an oversight during a merge, it won't make any difference to anything as long as its in ubuntu seeds but remove it if you want22:19
ScottKIt ends up pulling a bunch of other stuff into our see too. Thanks.22:19
Riddellbed time, I feel knackered22:21
ScottKGood night.22:22
=== Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Welcome to the Kubuntu developers channel | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo | Beta is out, you all rock!
* ryanakca goes in for a plunge ande reinstalls Intrepid22:24

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