[00:01] Riddell: You still about? [00:04] Meh I'll take the deafening silence as a no then :) [00:04] davmor2: hi [00:05] if I'm not around, tis only because I'm busy testing installs :) [00:05] Riddell: query on #u-testing about kubuntu languages [00:05] heno: is testing them as that is what the re-roll was for [00:26] Riddell: is alternate testing of any use? Or are the alternate CDs standard across Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Kubuntu and already thoroughly tested? [00:35] ryanakca: all testing is good, although alternate's havn't changed today, desktop has (and dvd will shortly) [00:36] * ryanakca nods [00:36] Riddell: Desktop CDs still don't support LVM? [00:36] don't think so [00:36] Alternate it is :) [00:37] * ryanakca just has to finish backing up 70G of homedir... *yawns* [00:38] ryanakca: bonus points if you can fill in any gaps in http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/kubuntu/all [00:39] Riddell: will try === stevie is now known as vorian [01:31] "robustifies" /me eyes up nixternal === txwikinger is now known as Guest41891 === txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger [03:18] Riddell: robustifies? I am affraid to ask [03:22] new DVD images are about to appear [03:26] aren't you up a bit late? [03:27] I just found a pub in Chicago too that provides irn bru :) [03:27] I had bangs and smashers for dinner and a few irn bru :) [04:39] mmm irn bru === rraphink is now known as raphink [11:20] Riddell: aaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I'm being attacked by light bulbs [12:05] * ryanakca scratches his head [12:05] davmor2: ok [12:06] Tm_T: Yes now the attack of the info light bulb's is over I had about 7 all saying the same thing [12:06] lovely [13:09] davmor2: I know that feeling [13:10] so [13:10] whom may I abuse for wiki editing? [13:10] * apachelogger still can't login [13:15] #canonical-sysadmin [13:15] they know about it [13:41] morning [13:43] Riddell: what's with the speaker icon in your systray? [13:44] looks horrible [13:44] agreed [13:45] apachelogger: where? [13:45] oh, corruption [13:45] not sure [13:45] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/IntrepidIbex/Beta/Kubuntu [13:45] I get that a lot [13:45] no, I mean it looks like the KDE 3 icon [13:46] that was an imcomplete upgrade [13:46] we need to make gwenview and digikam live alongside [13:47] oh [13:47] * apachelogger is looking forward to the day the last KDE 3 package gets kicked/replaced [13:47] Riddell: threaten them with a big hammer work for me :) [13:48] JontheEchidna: please take a look at bug 258606 [13:48] Launchpad bug 258606 in kdebase "Text trunicated in Dolphin" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/258606 [13:49] apachelogger: okies [13:49] sebas: what is the new ETA? [13:51] Strange question that I'd never thought to ask before. On Alternate installs why is the default host name Ubuntu even on other desktop installs? [13:52] apachelogger: I guess somewhen late this afternoon [13:52] * apachelogger notes to go jogging in the evening [13:52] Not *my* problem :) [13:52] :P [13:53] sebas: I guess kubuntu is 100% ready [13:53] * sebas is 85% ready [13:59] apachelogger: I can't reproduce with a new user [13:59] I think the issue is lower level [13:59] JontheEchidna: no [13:59] fiddly font DPI and resolution stuffs [13:59] font size [14:00] JontheEchidna: people with a visiual impairment tend to increase the font size a lot [14:01] especially since the uber useless kde desktop zoom doesn't work with $mousewheel [14:01] meta + = [14:01] * apachelogger implements revision locking in neon [14:01] not very good usability [14:01] JontheEchidna: exactly [14:01] cuz grandma knows what "meta" is [14:02] apachelogger: delayed again, some soname problem [14:02] well even if $user knows what meta is... it still is not handy [14:02] well, that too [14:02] sebas: that at least doesn't mess up my jogging schedule ;-) [14:02] * JontheEchidna goes to up the font size [14:03] if revision [14:03] cmd += " -r #{revision}" [14:03] end [14:03] <3 ruby :D [14:04] apachelogger: someone screwed the sonames because of your jogging schedule. [14:04] Oo [14:04] omg [14:05] I shall never leave the PC anymore [14:05] yeah, so which key is supposed to be Meta anyway :) (I'm grandpa) [14:05] So is ark known to be broken or is it just me? [14:06] apachelogger: can't reproduce with a font size bigger than that of the screenshot, which was complaining about the default font size anyway [14:06] ScottK-laptop: broken? [14:06] JontheEchidna: works here with 16pt [14:07] * JontheEchidna ups the size moar [14:07] apachelogger: For example if I ark [filename].tar.gz ark opens and has the name of the file with an unzip type icon on the right side, but never shows the contents of the file. [14:08] Same it I use file/open. [14:08] it/if [14:08] hm [14:08] same if I click a link in Konqueror (say for a build log on LP). [14:08] well [14:08] build log is known [14:08] ark can't handle gzipped files [14:08] should work with tar.* though [14:08] OK, well almost all I ever use if gzipped stuff. [14:09] So works fine except for what I use it for then. [14:09] :S [14:10] apachelogger: still works with 16 pt [14:10] apachelogger: Doesn't work on .deb's either, so no ar files. [14:10] JontheEchidna: well, go to 32 [14:11] That'd be the other thing I use it for. [14:11] ScottK-laptop: take a look at launchpad [14:11] there was a report about .deb [14:11] upstream fixed it IIRC [14:11] * JontheEchidna remembers a .deb bug too [14:11] maybe only in trunk [14:11] but I think it was a simple change ot a desktop file since the ark backends can technically open .deb files [14:11] Which package is ark in? [14:12] utils [14:12] Thanks. [14:13] sebas, Riddell: btw, how does one get on the KDE packager list? [14:13] apachelogger: pretty much everything is too big to be usable at 32 pt [14:14] well [14:14] apachelogger: ask dirk is what I did [14:14] apachelogger: I guess email sysadmin [14:14] yeah, sysadmin [14:14] oki, thx [14:14] CC me for credibility I guess [14:14] aye [14:14] JontheEchidna: the widgets should scale with the content [14:15] apachelogger: The .deb bug is a different one than I experience. It works in Hardy and before using command line ark [filename].deb. Not in Intrepid. [14:15] well, they do, to a point [14:15] JontheEchidna: the dolphin information panel doesn't, maybe you don't notice because of dpi [14:15] certainly happens here [14:15] well I can hardly triage a bug I don't get :( [14:15] * JontheEchidna pats his dpi [14:15] ScottK-laptop: well, take a look at the upstream bug [14:15] JontheEchidna: you should just forward it :P [14:16] I get it and the reporter does as well, which makes us 2 :P [14:22] apachelogger: I found the KDE bug for lack of gzip support and linked it to the LP bug. It's still open. [14:24] I have to think about this, but ark being useless for me may well be the straw that breaks the camel's back. [14:25] I don't suppose there's any way Kubuntu Hardy can be made retroactively LTS? [14:26] ScottK-laptop: doubtable [14:27] next LTS could only be 10.04 anyway [14:27] but as discussed at the last meeting we are trying to provide 8.04 -> 9.04 as upgrade path [14:28] apachelogger: OK. I just don't see how this is going to be usable for me. [14:28] ScottK-laptop: ark or the upgrade path? [14:28] I'll stick with it a bit longer and see, but as pretty as it is, it's significantly harder for me to use. [14:28] apachelogger: KDE 4.1.2 in general. [14:29] The biggies are ark, lack of the tooltips, and overall stability. [14:29] * apachelogger didn't have problems with stability TBH [14:29] but yeah, ark is missing a lot of stuff [14:30] So far (and I don't know if it's Intrepid or KDE) about every other day when a sit down at my desk, my system is crashed. [14:30] I already thought about backporting the whole trunk ark, but it doesn't qualify quality-wise [14:30] ScottK-laptop: crashed in what way? [14:30] I had one kdepim crash that I managed to report. [14:30] There's a python dbus thing. [14:31] Once I clicked on update rss feeds in Akrogator and X died, but I couldn't get a crash report out of it. [14:32] For my laptop, the stability is adequate, but not great. [14:32] The missing functions are much bigger. [14:32] I use ark a LOT in my Ubuntu work. [14:32] I normally have several dozen windows open and without the tooltips there is just no way to work with them. [14:33] ^lack of multiline taskbar hurts that too [14:33] why did that get removed anyway? [14:33] apachelogger: never got reimplemented after Wigets-on-canvas [14:33] ScottK-laptop: I don't use ark at all right now [14:34] the gzip file issue hurts too much [14:34] JontheEchidna: nice :S [14:34] apachelogger: Right. So how do you look at build logs? [14:34] wget & gunzip & kate [14:34] * JontheEchidna loads them up in firefox, because it displays diff.gz's like a dream [14:35] konq can't do that for all it's swiss army-knifity [14:35] well [14:35] it depends on the kio slaves [14:35] and those are really bound to ark's functionallity [14:35] gziptext:// ? [14:35] JontheEchidna: gzip or something [14:35] bzip2 also [14:36] in KDE 3 konqui used to open such files (at least local ones) with the kio slave [14:36] until we kds'ed it to use ark :P [14:38] Yep. Build log works in Firefox. [14:38] since you both got firefox... one of you could edit https://wiki.kubuntu.org/IntrepidIbex/Beta/Kubuntu :P [14:39] the menu paths are missing for everything but knetworkmanager [14:39] which is confusing [14:39] + the knetworkmanager one says kmenu -> [14:39] shoudl be application launcher -> [14:39] rite [14:40] so for adept do we want to show installer or manager? [14:40] Adept is the only one that needs anything too [14:40] everything else runs automagically [14:41] JontheEchidna: installer [14:41] JontheEchidna: maybe reorder the entries [14:41] KDE, Adept, knmw, other fancy stuff [14:42] JontheEchidna: mornfall's blog URL needs to be changed to beta2 [14:43] and please prevent the camelcase autolinking [14:43] PyQt4 goes into nowhere, NetworkManager redirects like 3 times [14:44] how do you prevent that? [14:44] * JontheEchidna never figured that out [14:44] if possible the images should be float:right [14:44] JontheEchidna: dunno, rtfm :P [14:45] * JontheEchidna tries something [14:46] ha, I did it [14:46] insert an empty bold tag [14:46] in between py and qt4 [14:46] JontheEchidna: try !NetworkManager [14:47] ah [14:47] JontheEchidna: ``NetworkManager [14:47] or [14:47] Network``Manager [14:47] * apachelogger finds that confusing [14:48] donna worry, everything's good now [14:48] To keep a word like PageName from automatically being turned into a link, use Page``Name. (The problem with doing this is that it will prevent a simple search for the word "WikiName" from matching Wiki``Name in a page, due to the inserted characters.) [14:48] To keep a word like PageName from automatically being turned into a link, use Page``Name. (The problem with doing this is that it will prevent a simple search for the word "WikiName" from matching Wiki``Name in a page, due to the inserted characters.) [14:48] except I forgot to move desktop effects down [14:48] meh [14:48] You can also suppress WikiName linking by putting an exclamation mark (bang) before the WikiName, i.e. !WikiName. This is available by default, but can be disabled with the configuration option bang_meta = False. Using this method will not interfere with most searches for the escaped WikiName, with the exception of certain quoted phrases and regular expressions. [14:49] <3 from mediawiki :P [14:50] JontheEchidna: KDE needs an INFO URL [14:50] there is no 4.1.2 release page yet iirc [14:50] well [14:50] take the 4.1 one [14:50] holds more information anyway [14:51] JontheEchidna: and I think you broke the syntax [14:51] everything from adept onwards is italic now [14:51] lol [14:51] ryanakca: who is working on a wiki theme, btw? === davmor2 is now known as davmor_biab === davmor_biab is now known as davmor2 [15:47] what are the dates again for UDS Moutnain View? [15:47] december [15:48] is that week of 12/8? [15:48] 8th to 12th [15:48] cool [15:48] told boss right dates [16:01] have they announced yet the people who got sponsored? [16:02] rgreening: 7th [16:03] rgreening: nope just need to specify the weeks for my boss in case i do get the sponsorhsip [16:03] oh, thought it was today for some reason [16:03] lol [16:10] apachelogger: 4.1.2 release tomorrow morning it seems [16:35] Riddell: we probably should go to bed early ;-) [16:39] JontheEchidna: very valid pov in most recent comment on bug 223412 [16:39] Launchpad bug 223412 in kdebase-workspace "Global shortcuts don't always work" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/223412 [16:40] yeah, saw that [16:40] but I really don't know what we can do [16:40] the dude who broke khotkeys in the first place doesn't know how to fix it without a redesign [16:50] well [16:50] it is only partly broken anyway [16:57] apachelogger: Perhaps that should be the KDE 4.1 theme, "well, it is only partly broken". [16:58] it is also partly broken in KDE 3.5 [16:58] but I am a fan of the theme "it is not broken, it is KDE" [16:59] Right, I was thinking more broadly than that specific issue. [17:28] apachelogger: file-roller seems not to bring in too much more in terms of Gnomish stuff than I had already and does GZIP just fine. I think between that and debc I can likely manage. [17:41] Bah. Nevermind. File-roller won't open it via a web link. [17:41] I guess Firefox for that. [17:49] Riddell and apachelogger: Given the heavy use of gzip in Debian package management, I'm thinking not having a GUI tool that does gzip is a 'bad' thing. What would you think of adding file-roller to kubuntu-desktop to fix that? [17:51] it's gtk... [17:52] Riddell: That's true, but we have no KDE tool and no hope of getting one before release. [17:53] I think it's better to have a 'contaminated' set of packages that provides more complete functionality. [17:53] ark seems to read .tar.gz files fine [17:53] Riddell: In Intrepid? [17:54] yes [17:54] Hmm. [17:54] * ScottK-laptop hands Riddell Bug #276236 and asks for help then. [17:54] Launchpad bug 276236 in kdeutils "[Intrepid] ark fails to open .gz file" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276236 [17:54] yeah, it opens tar.gz's fine but not diff.gz [17:54] or plain .gz, it seems [17:55] * Riddell away [17:55] Right. [17:56] Well if diff.gz and .gz only matter to me, I've fixed it myself locally. [17:56] I always installed xarchiver, KDE3, because ark was stupid back then. but then xarchiver started segfaulting on tar.gzs.... [17:56] *even in KDE3 [17:57] I added firefox to the applications for gzip so I can right-click on build logs and open with firefox. [18:00] Dolphin... [18:00] Settings -> Configure -> Genral -> Browse through archives [18:01] * ScottK-laptop is allergic to fish. [18:01] Actually not, I just don't particularly like Dolphin. Konqueror works better for me. [18:02] if you enable that in Dolphin, Konqueror gets it as a bonus too [18:03] Hmmm. [18:03] * ScottK-laptop tries [18:06] * NCommander gives ScottK a shot of an epipen [18:07] Jucato: Thanks. [18:07] ScottK-laptop: np [18:07] still doesn't solve the lack of a right-click option on archives though :( [18:07] nor reading LP build logs off their web page. [18:08] *sigh* ark... [18:08] OK. If rgreening will give me my tooltips back, I think I can live with this. [18:08] which tooltips? [18:09] For open applications on the task bar. [18:09] aah [18:09] When you've got ~25 windows open there is no way to tell what's what. [18:10] right.. specially since the taskbar doesn't go to two rows atm... [18:10] Yes. That makes it double plus unfun. [18:10] not sure if tooltips are back in 4.2... iirc aseigo disabled them again due to some serious bugs [18:10] Someone said they were and rgreening was working on a 4.1 patch. [18:11] oh goodie :) [18:11] Last I heard was "compiles, but doesn't work". [18:11] * Jucato needs one tooltip.. for the clock... [18:11] timezones tooltip/balloon [18:14] what is the notification mean that my language support is not complete? english is greyed out that i can't select to install [18:40] Any idea on why the card faces for kdegames card games look uneven in kde 4.1.2 (they did not in 4.0.3 and the graphics files are identical AFAICT)? [18:46] ScottK: JontheEchidna and I were both working it. Though mostly Jon. I helped get past some compilation issues. I think he's real close now... \o/ tooltips. [18:49] rgreening and JontheEchidna: Thanks to you both for your work on it. It'll be a huge difference for me if we get it working. [18:49] ScottK: know any python? [18:50] * rgreening needs to implement some file locking checks... and it stumped [18:50] * JontheEchidna is downloading the next round of debs to test [18:50] s/it/is [18:50] would love to help you guys out [18:50] have no idea how to program in python [18:50] and lectures are consuming tons of my time [18:50] rgreening: I do know some python. [18:50] \o\ \o| |o/ /o/ *the wave* [18:51] ScottK: any idea on how I can check if a file is locked (i.e. opened by another process) [18:51] basically, trying to mod update-notifier-kde to check for package db lock [18:52] rgreening: opened by another process and locked are two different things. [18:52] Ah. [18:52] make more sense now? [18:52] :) [18:52] Yes. [18:53] So, the notifier has some signals, displays icons and sets actions. I want to hide the icon if /var/lib/dpkg/lock is in use by a package manager and unhide it once freed. [18:53] any suggestions? [18:53] or some python app which may already implement this so I can scarf it [18:54] Doing some looking around. [18:54] I think you need something dpkg/apt specific, not generic locking. [18:54] yes. if there are methods modules that exist, even better [18:54] I can import them [19:07] rgreening: Nothing leaps out at me. [19:07] me neither.... just found something on fcntl module... may try that [19:08] rgreening: The only think I can think of is to try to acquire the lock in a try statement and then assume it's locked if it fails and release it right away if it succeeds. [19:09] You wouldn't want to try that at a high frequency though. [19:09] hmm... true [19:10] there's got to be a bettwr way... [19:11] fcntl is the right module though. [19:11] I checked python-apt and it didn't appear to offer anything immediately helpful. [19:25] rgreening: Sorry. No better ideas here. [19:26] np... I'm trying the fcntl. Let's see if it kills my system... [19:51] ScottK: I just realized, I cannot open the file to try and lock, as it requires sys privs... hrm [19:52] Right. [19:52] I didn't realize is ran with user privs. I'm pretty sure there's no way to do it then because you can't even read the file. [19:55] exactly. back to the drawing board. [19:55] doh.. least I learned some Python in the process. [19:55] hah [19:57] * JontheEchidna is about to throw his next try at tooltips to his ppa [20:15] ScottK: I was thinking on using a system call to 'lsof', but the file access only shows up if called with admin privs. lol [20:16] ScottK: So, I am left with using 'ps' and grepping for apt-get, aptitude, adept, synaptic I guess... not really very good... [20:17] No. Not good at all. [20:23] is the daily current build the beta test canddiate? [20:23] cause i've had no problems in my vm with it [20:25] If it's the most recent one currently available, then yes. [21:32] apachelogger: nobody at the moment... poke newz2000 if you would like to help / take care of it :) [21:38] http://www.kubuntu.org/news/8.10-beta ta da [21:38] * ryanakca looks [21:39] * ryanakca wonders if he should erase the alternate CD he burned yesterday and burn the Beta's alternate [21:39] Any changes? [21:39] no [21:39] Okies, thanks [21:41] Riddell: very pretty... did you want to bring down the rest of the stories under the image, or no? [21:42] ryanakca: I did that [21:42] * ryanakca gets a screenshot [21:43] look at www-admin [21:45] Riddell: wierd... meanwhile, www.kubuntu.org shows http://ryanak.ca/~ryan/kubuntu.png .. [21:47] have patience, the cache will catch up [21:47] * ryanakca grins [21:49] Riddell: great, but the kmix icon on the screenshot is an oxygen icon :/ [21:51] smarter: is not an oxygen one [21:51] smarter: is hicolour [21:51] fixes welcome [21:51] hmm, yeah I mean crystalsvg [21:51] it's strange, since it uses the oxygen one on my system [21:56] smarter: it didn't upgrade properly [22:16] Riddell: Any idea why we have openoffice.org-evolution in the Kubuntu.Intrepid supported seed? [22:19] ScottK: probably just an oversight during a merge, it won't make any difference to anything as long as its in ubuntu seeds but remove it if you want [22:19] It ends up pulling a bunch of other stuff into our see too. Thanks. [22:20] see/seed [22:21] bed time, I feel knackered [22:22] Good night. === Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Welcome to the Kubuntu developers channel | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo | Beta is out, you all rock! [22:24] * ryanakca goes in for a plunge ande reinstalls Intrepid