[00:00]  * wgrant points out that XChat is a bug.
[00:02] <joh> If I'd like more than one maintainer of my project, do I have to create a team?
[00:02] <poolie> joh, yes
[00:03] <joh> poolie: Ok, thanks
[01:34] <jdrake> Does anyone else have trouble with launchpad being a bit slow?
[01:43] <matsubara> jdrake: any page in particular or generally?
[01:43] <jdrake> generally
[01:44] <jdrake> Doing anything seems to be delayed quite a bit, say from 5 to 10 seconds per change.
[01:45] <matsubara> jdrake: it feels slow to me in general, but I'm in Brazil, some latency and slowness expected due to crap ISP. I heard similar complains from Australia and China.
[01:45] <jdrake> I am in southern canada
[01:47] <RAOF> There's the trans-Atlantic latency problem, exacebated by https for you then.
[01:47] <RAOF> Also, launchpad is, in general, not the fastest website on the intertubes.
[01:48] <matsubara> jdrake: just heard from one of the sysadmins that some of our hardware is very busy at the moment doing system stuff and should be back to normal operation real soon.
[01:49] <jdrake> matsubara, I have had this at different times of day
[01:50] <matsubara> jdrake: ok, just checking that's not a something right nowish as opposed to other days
[01:51] <jdrake> bzr is a great introduction to version control, first time I have really enjoyed running the commands
[02:11] <Hobbsee> OOPS-1006EB13
[02:12] <Hobbsee> kiko: ah ha!  6 is the highest number of packages you can accept concurrently now!  Much better than 1!
[02:13] <matsubara> Hobbsee: hi
[02:13] <Hobbsee> matsubara: hey there!
[02:13] <Hobbsee> matsubara: how's it going?
[02:13] <matsubara> Hobbsee: oops is not available yet. I'll check that one in 10 min
[02:14] <Hobbsee> matsubara: cool, thanks :)
[02:14] <matsubara> Hobbsee: pretty good. you?
[02:14] <Hobbsee> matsubara: yeah, pretty good.  Fixing bugs, doing assignments, etc. :)
[02:15] <matsubara> Hobbsee: usual busy day. great :-)
[02:15] <Hobbsee> hehe
[02:25] <matsubara> Hobbsee: do you consistently get that timeout?
[02:25] <Hobbsee> matsubara: for anything over 6 packages, yes.
[02:26] <Hobbsee> matsubara: i had some timeouts for 8 packages yesterday
[02:26] <mwhudson> that's a lot of queries
[02:28] <matsubara> yeah
[02:28] <matsubara> Hobbsee: I'll ask one of the soyuz guys to take a look at this tomorrow.
[02:28] <Hobbsee> matsubara: cool, OK.  At this point, it'll just need to be fixed by next ubuntu alpha 5 or so, so it can be tested so it works for beta, I expect.
[02:30] <matsubara> Hobbsee: just to be sure, you were accepting uploads on that page right? (the UI looks different to me as I don't have the same permissions)
[02:30] <Hobbsee> matsubara: ye
[02:30] <Hobbsee> s
[02:30] <matsubara> okie. thanks Hobbsee
[02:30] <Hobbsee> matsubara: rejections have never had any problems.  You're welcome
[02:39] <_MMA_> Who do I talk to about breaking a lock?
[02:39] <wgrant> _MMA_: Ask bzr break-lock nicely.
[02:39] <_MMA_> It continues to spit in my face.
[02:39] <spiv> _MMA_: "bzr break-lock BRANCH_URL"
[02:40] <spiv> _MMA_: ignore the URL in the error message, use the URL you normally use to access the branch
[02:40]  * _MMA_ tries
[02:41] <spiv> (The bug for the misleading error message is https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/255062)
[02:41] <_MMA_> spiv: Ahh... Thank you oh wise one. Fixed me right up.
[02:42] <spiv> You're welcome.
[03:28] <mtaylor> so, the "Queue branch for merging" interface seems to imply that launchpad will do the merge at some point... is that correct?
[03:30] <beuno> mtaylor, kinda
[03:30] <beuno> it will integrate with something that will  :)
[03:31] <wgrant> Mmm. PQM.
[03:33] <mtaylor> hehehe
[03:33] <mtaylor> so, as of right now, the fact that I queued something gets me nowhere?
[03:34] <beuno> well, you learned something  :)
[03:34] <RAOF> Ooh.  Will we get a PQM setup as a part of launchpad code at some point?  Awesome.
[03:34] <mtaylor> beuno: as long as I learned something...
[03:35] <wgrant> I don't see how Launchpad can host other projects' PQM instances.
[03:35] <beuno> RAOF, yeap
[03:35] <beuno> wgrant, we do!  ;)
[03:36] <RAOF> beuno: Sweet!
[03:36] <wgrant> beuno: You'd have to run other code...
[03:36] <wgrant> But I guess you can do like the PPA buildds...
[04:31] <thumper> mtaylor: queue branch for merging is going away shortly
[04:31] <thumper> mtaylor: only to reappear in a different dress when I land my merge queue loom
[04:32] <thumper> RAOF: yes I'm also working on PQM to get it to talk via launchpadlib to LP for queue management
[04:32] <thumper> coming to a launchpad near you RSN
[04:32] <thumper> which hopefully means before the end of the year
[04:32] <mtaylor> thumper: awesome
[04:32] <thumper> mtaylor: also the entire code review process is undergoing a workflow shift
[04:33] <thumper> mtaylor: my work with beuno has produced some slick changes
[04:33] <thumper> it is being reviewed as we speak
[04:37] <jml> is it?
[04:37] <thumper> jml: is what?
[04:37] <RAOF> Excellent.  We've been having a "how should we commit to trunk" discussion in the GNOME Do project recently.  Having a PQM available would be handy :).
[04:37] <thumper> jml: I'm doing some PQM stuff in the evening
[04:38] <spiv> RAOF: "carefully" ;)
[04:38] <thumper> jml: most of the actual queue work is done
[04:38] <thumper> jml: but requires some rework as we discussed
[04:38] <thumper> jml: but the actual effort is not that huge
[04:38] <RAOF> spiv: :P
[04:38] <jml> thumper: oh ok, I just hoped you weren't waiting on a review from me
[04:39] <thumper> jml: a follow up to rockstar's perhaps
[04:56] <rockstar> jml, yea, there was a second one from me
[04:56] <jml> rockstar: ok. that one's waiting until after lunch.
[05:45] <LifeIsPain> A question about merging accounts: lifeispain had been created when importing bugs from inkscape, and I just now created idontlikespam, but I would prefer to be listed as lifeispain (even if I don't use launchpad as regularly as some of you). When I click to merge the accounts, it says to be logged into the one I want to keep
[05:45] <LifeIsPain> however, I would want to keep the account name of "lifeispain", do I need to merge, and then rename after the merge?
[05:54] <LifeIsPain> huhm, claim worked, I should have looked for a way to do that first
[08:02] <snaggen> Hi, any vcs-import people here? Have question about svn import to launchpad
[08:09] <lifeless> snaggen: the launchpad-bazaar project on launchpad, ask a question on it
[10:45] <hathiwala> i m developing software in gambas but i dont know control use for date
[10:46] <hathiwala> can i have idea about this
[10:46] <wgrant> hathiwala: This is the channel for Launchpad, not Gambas.
[12:31] <Rafik> hello all. just wanted to know if there is/was a talk about translating launchpad itself
[12:36] <Rafik> bug #3896
[14:06] <MvG> Hi! I've got a bunch of related projects that are likely to be merged into one project at some point in the future. I'd like to register them with launchpad now.
[14:06] <MvG> I guess I'd have one super project for the whole thing, and the subprojects all marked as parts of this. Do I register a super project in the normal way, or is there some special procedure for them?
[14:07] <beuno> MvG, you have to request it via answers:  https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[14:08] <MvG> beuno: Thanks. A notice to that effect on the project registration page would be useful...
[14:09] <beuno> MvG, agreed. Care to file a bug for that?
[14:09] <MvG> Will do.
[14:09] <beuno> thanks  :)
[14:09] <MvG> Do you have an idea if it would be possible to turn the super-project into a software project in its own right at a later point in time? Would influence naming.
[14:10] <beuno> what do you mean by "software project"?
[14:11] <MvG> I mean, have everything that a normal project has associated with it, not only child projects.
[14:12] <beuno> code, bugs, etc?
[14:12] <MvG> Yes.
[14:12] <MvG> I just found out, e.g., that I can't file a bug for "mozilla", only for its sub projects.
[14:13] <beuno> sure, it can have code on its own
[14:13] <MvG> Is this due to bughs being disabled for mozilla per project configuration, or due to the fact that super projects can't have bugs for themselves?
[14:13] <beuno> (or bugs, or answers...)
[14:13] <beuno> due to the fact that they disabled it
[14:13] <MvG> Thanks.
[14:14] <beuno> ah, wait a sec...
[14:14] <beuno> maybe I'm wrong
[14:14] <beuno> oh, I think I am  :)
[14:14] <beuno> kiko_, poke
[14:14] <wgrant> beuno: Project groups can't have code, bugs, answers.
[14:15] <wgrant> Nor blueprints.
[14:15] <matsubara> super projects can't have bugs, code, etc and can't be turned into regular projects
[14:15] <beuno> there ya go
[14:15] <beuno> I was looking in the wrong place  :)
[14:15] <MvG> Thanks also for that.
[14:15] <matsubara> but yes, we can free up the name in case you need it later
[14:15] <kiko_> beuno, sorry
[14:15] <beuno> MvG, what you can do, is register a project with the actual name, and make the super-project something different
[14:16] <kiko> MvG, what project are you asking for?
[14:16] <MvG> I guess I could also leave them unrelated for the time being. There is not so much to be gained from the super projects for me, I think.
[14:17] <MvG> So far it's a small set of java applications for drawing ornaments. Two developers so far, but I'd wish for it to grow.
[15:03] <mpt> jcastro, what do the "Δ" columns mean?
[15:04] <jcastro> mpt: the delta, possible targets
[15:04] <jcastro> mpt: that will change, kind of a stupid label
[15:04] <mpt> jcastro, the delta of what?
[15:04] <mpt> (I know it's a delta symbol:-)
[15:05] <jcastro> so if there are 100 open bugs and 90 are marked upstream the 10 left over are the delta
[15:06] <jcastro> for the watch column, it's basically bugs that have been marked upstreamable but NOT linked.
[15:06] <mpt> jcastro, by "upstreamable" do you mean they are registered as occurring in the upstream project?
[15:06] <jcastro> so somewhere in the process someone determined it was upstreamable, so then we look at that last number to find possible targets for bug days, etc.
[15:06] <jcastro> right, an open upstream task in launchpad
[15:07] <jcastro> "also affects"
[15:07] <mpt> ok
[15:07] <mpt> thanks
[15:07]  * kiko thwacks jcastro over the "stupid label" comment
[15:07] <kiko> not only do you get all the lwn cred, but you now call my labels stupid in public!!!
[15:07]  * kiko grins
[15:07] <mpt> kiko, easy solution, don't admit it's your label ;-)
[15:07] <jcastro> let me rephrase
[15:07] <kiko> jcastro, congratulations on the posting
[15:08] <kiko> I'm joking obviously
[15:08] <jcastro> "At the time we didn't know what use case that was going to be for so kiko just called it a delta."
[15:08] <jcastro> I am unsure what to call it now
[15:08] <jcastro> I've been thinking "targets"
[15:08] <mpt> Would "Needs linking" be accurate?
[15:08] <jcastro> yes and no, they're just possibles, it's not 100% that you would link it
[15:09] <kiko> well, the delta is in fact the difference between the ideal and the current
[15:09] <kiko> i.e. what needs doing
[15:09] <jcastro> they still need to be reviewed by a person.
[15:09] <jcastro> and since this is a new "view" on people's bugs there's some old ones in there that are being triaged out, etc.
[15:09] <mpt> Ah, because Launchpad doesn't yet have a canonical way of saying "No, this bug doesn't occur upstream"
[15:09] <jcastro> kiko: the lwn thing opened up a chance to mention the bugzilla/trac plugin, which I thought was nice
[15:10] <jcastro> mpt: and also sometimes people think it's upstream but it might not be.
[15:10] <jcastro> sometimes it might involve invalidating a link
[15:10] <kiko> jcastro, yeah, and in fact somebody yesterday asked about it
[15:10] <jcastro> but generally speaking it's a list of targetable linkables
[15:10] <jcastro> before the OOo bug day it had 72 targets
[15:10] <jcastro> we got that down to 44
[15:11] <jcastro> so that's ~30 some bugs forwarded that day, which isn't a bad start
[15:11] <jcastro> considering that making a new bug upstream and linking is pretty time consuming
[15:28]  * mpt finds an oops :-]
[15:45] <kiko> jcastro, that's a fantastic result
[15:46] <kiko> jcastro, now, to make it a reproducible part of our community process
[15:46] <kiko> but woo, that's such a cool thing
[15:47] <jcastro> kiko: yeah, we just need to "catch up" projects that are at the bottom of the list. Which is one thing the report is good at finding out. :D
[15:47] <wgrant> jcastro: The things at the bottom of the list are ten thousand packages below the bottom of the visible one...
[15:48] <jcastro> wgrant: yes, but right now the top 100 packages by open bugs seems a good place to start.
[15:48] <wgrant> jcastro: Quite likely.
[15:49] <jcastro> eventually one will just be able to query any package and get a result
[15:49] <wgrant> Which eventually?
[15:49] <jcastro> we would need to write that feature in obviously
[15:50] <jcastro> so you can type in any package in the archive and get it's linkage numbers
[15:51] <wgrant> Right. That would work well on a project-style Bugs index.
[15:51] <wgrant> Which SPs don't have. :(
[17:11] <kiko> zooko, ping
[17:25] <zooko> kiko: pong!
[17:25] <zooko> But I'm about to take off for a while.
[17:25] <kiko> zooko! I spoke to gmb and we figured out that that the comment was a red herring, that config block applies to all versions
[17:26] <zooko> Okay, thanks!
[17:26] <zooko> I've got it hooked up to http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe now.
[17:26] <zooko> But I think it is waiting for the launchpad end to turn on and/or for someone to update a ticket which is linked to my trac.
[17:29] <zooko> So, I guess the next step is for people who hack on launchpad to download and install Tahoe and try it out and report bugs.  :-)
[18:29] <XiXaQ> hello everyone. I'm looking at a project, and I'm trying to find out if it has a repository, PPA? It's this project: https://launchpad.net/genesis-sync
[18:29] <XiXaQ> how can I find out if it has one? There are packages there for download.
[18:30] <XiXaQ> oh. I don't think there are any debs when I look closer.
[18:32] <Ursinha> hi XiXaQ, let me see
[18:33] <Ursinha> there are no packages indeed
[18:39] <Ursinha> XiXaQ, PPA's are always related to people, not projects directly, but the owner of this project doesn't seem to have deb packages on his PPA
[18:39] <XiXaQ> oh, I see.
[18:42] <Ursinha> XiXaQ, you can ask the owner if somebody is working on it, the project seems to have some contributors
[18:42] <XiXaQ> yes, I'll do that.
[18:43] <XiXaQ> so then, a project cannot have its own repository on launchpad?
[18:44] <kiko> XiXaQ, well, what do you mean by "a project"?
[18:44] <kiko> XiXaQ, a team of people can have a repository
[18:45] <kiko> and the project can link to it in its homepage, as launchpad.net/bzr does
[18:45] <XiXaQ> oh, ok.
[18:46] <kiko> XiXaQ, in this case you can also search through PPAs here:
[18:46] <kiko> launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
[18:46] <XiXaQ> cool :)
[18:46] <XiXaQ> thanks.
[18:47] <kiko> XiXaQ, put the package name you want in there and see if the hits come up :)
[18:48] <XiXaQ> that was great! Thank you :)
[18:56] <kiko> XiXaQ, sure thing -- did you find a package in a PPA?
[18:57] <XiXaQ> no :(
[18:57] <kiko> XiXaQ, why don't you write to frederik?
[18:57] <XiXaQ> I will :)
[18:57] <kiko> ask him if he can one going
[18:57] <kiko> cool, let me know if he needs help
[18:57] <XiXaQ> nice of you to offer. I'll tell him.
[19:02] <XiXaQ> both SyncEvolution and Genesis seems like really cool software. It doesn't work though, but that might simply be a pebcac :)
[19:02] <XiXaQ> hope they'll be installed by default in Ubuntu when it's stable.
[19:02] <Ursinha> :)
[19:04] <XiXaQ> syncing your cellphone with evolution should be something that most users want.
[19:04] <XiXaQ> and http://my.funambol.com is a brilliant service!
[19:04] <kiko> XiXaQ, and msynctool is the weirdest commandline tool ever
[19:05] <XiXaQ> I don't know that one.
[19:05] <kiko> it does cellphone to evo syncs
[19:05] <kiko> you should try it out
[19:05] <XiXaQ> oh, ok.
[19:05] <kiko> but beware
[22:58] <persia> Is it a bug if I, as a non-beta-tester am getting links to edge from LP-generated mail?
[22:59] <beuno> should be, yes
[22:59] <persia> OK.  I'll file it then.
[22:59] <persia> Separately, I've asked a question, and been given an answer that the problem that causes my question cannot be solved.
[23:00] <beuno> maps?
[23:00] <beuno> location, etc?
[23:00] <persia> Neither of "Problem Solved" or "I Still Need an Answer" is correct.  Any suggestions for how to close the question?
[23:00] <persia> Yes, but the nature of the question isn't the issue :)
[23:01] <beuno> right, I'd say mark it as solved, as long as bugs where filed to fix the underlying problem
[23:01] <persia> OK.  I don't like the implied semantics of that, but that's another issue.
[23:01] <beuno> well, you could insist on trying to get your specific case fixed
[23:02] <beuno> ie, your location reset
[23:03] <persia> Is that even possible?  I was advised that it wasn't possible at all, which I guessed to be due to some lazily enforced constraint in the DB that would prevent a reset to null.
[23:03] <persia> I was planning to just move to a pole, and set my timezone as a workaround.
[23:05] <beuno> I don't really know if it's possible or not, but unless it will really make a difference, I'd say being located in a pole is really cool (?)
[23:05]  * wgrant puts persia somewhere else.
[23:05] <persia> Yeah, but it's wrong.  I prefer to be vague, but I don't like being wrong.
[23:06]  * wgrant wonders why the attributes are read-only anyway.
[23:06] <wgrant> It seems pretty useless and wrong.
[23:06] <persia> WIth the map tool as it exists, I can actually pinpoint myself within a meter, which is part of what bothers me about it.
[23:06] <beuno> you could be vague, I was when I set it
[23:06] <persia> beuno: No.  You can't be vague.  You can only be wrong.
[23:06] <beuno> just set it to the geographical center of the city
[23:07] <persia> Right, which is deliberately incorrect.
[23:07] <persia> I have no real desire to lie (which is why I set my location somewhere fairly random, and appreciate that it has since been moved)
[23:08] <persia> I just don't want to show the location precisely enough that one can look at my laundry.
[23:09] <kiko> persia, in practice, it's pretty much the same. me, I am still waiting for the stalkers to show up here
[23:10] <persia> kiko: What?  How is it the same?  In the one case, I provided *incorrect* information.  In the other case, I simply didn't provide enough information.
[23:10] <kiko> persia, well, it's an imprecision. and yeah, but what's the practical consequence of that imprecision?
[23:11] <persia> Someone uses alternate sources of information to find my location.
[23:11] <kiko> sorry?
[23:12] <persia> OK.  It's a trivial matter to find the current physical location of most people within about 4 hours.
[23:12] <persia> This has been true for quite a while now.
[23:12] <kiko> okay, let's say I agree with that. what's your point? :)
[23:12] <persia> On the other hand, doing so requires access to several different sources of information, and integration.
[23:13] <exarkun> kiko: Someone might be looking for persia
[23:13] <persia> I don't like having it somewhere as googleable as LP, but I also don't like lying.
[23:13] <exarkun> kiko: And think they found him via his launchpad information.
[23:13] <exarkun> And then get lost and mugged and die.
[23:13] <exarkun> And I guess persia would feel bad
[23:13] <persia> exarkun: Thanks.  Right.  I'm a dissident.
[23:13] <exarkun> Oh, or maybe he wouldn't feel bad.
[23:13] <exarkun> ;)
[23:13] <exarkun> But anyway it'd be better if the person didn't think they'd found him.
[23:13] <kiko> heh
[23:14] <kiko> exarkun, you are a riot
[23:14] <exarkun> :)
[23:17] <wgrant> Why isn't location unsettable? Surely it's extra work to configure the permissions the current way...
[23:18] <beuno> wgrant, my wild guess would be because people can hide their location, so it doesn't seem like a good investment of time
[23:18] <beuno> but, this is a wild and personal guess  :)
[23:18] <wgrant> beuno: But that implies hiding one's timezone as well.
[23:18] <wgrant> Which might not be particularly desirable.
[23:19] <beuno> sure, it would be a corner case
[23:19] <persia> Actually, it's typically undesireable, as one wants to hint the timezone to advise others when is a good time for coordination.
[23:19] <beuno> I don't disagree, I'm not too sure it's a great investment of time
[23:20] <persia> I'd say the same thing about the map in general :)
[23:20] <wgrant> But implementing a feature where others can set one's personal information is?
[23:20] <beuno> I like the feature
[23:20] <beuno> seeing where everybody is located on a map
[23:20] <persia> (not that I really mind it, except for not being able to unset my location, and needing to press an extra confirmation button every time I visit a person page)
[23:20] <exarkun> Of course I'm sure I don't need to point this out, but once Launchpad is open source, this is exactly the sort of thing that interested parties will be able to contribute an implementation of, so Canonical won't have to worry that it's not a good investment of development time. ;)
[23:20] <beuno> and being able to see what time it is now
[23:21] <wgrant> persia: It's over SSL now.
[23:21] <persia> wgrant: Not for me.
[23:21] <beuno> well, it's not what Canonical thinks, it's my personal opinion
[23:21] <wgrant> persia: Ah, only on edge.
[23:21] <persia> I'll get it in 2-3 weeks.  Until then, it's annoying.
[23:21] <beuno> so "off the record"
[23:51] <Ursinha> I'll be back in three hours!