[00:27] <marcin> !en
[00:50] <ryanakca> Where can I find more information on the ``Expert'' installation mode?
[00:51] <`Matir> Why does flash on 64 bit constantly seem to break?
[01:01] <RAOF> `Matir: Because getting flash to run on x86-64 requires us to trick it into thinking it's running on IA32.
[01:02] <`Matir> RAOF, yeah... makes me almost tempted to run an i386 install in virtualbox just for flash... be annoying though
[01:04] <bruce89> /help
[01:05] <bruce89> ignore me
[01:58] <l337ingDisorder> hey guys.. got a bit of an issue I'm hoping someone can help with - I've updated to 8.10 and now glipper clipboard manager crashes 100% of the time because it depends on libffi4 but 8.10 uses libffi5 - can anyone tell me how to compile from source with libffi5 instead of libffi4?
[01:58] <l337ingDisorder> (I know how to compile from source, just need to know what arguments to pass to ./configure or whatever it is I need to do for the libffi5 modification)
[02:00] <bruce89> it'll need more than just configure arguements
[02:01] <RAOF> And the correct action is to file a bug, so we can fix it! :)
[02:01] <l337ingDisorder> it's already been filed, and I added a +1 to the bug report :)
[02:01] <l337ingDisorder> bruce89: what more will it need? sorry, I've only ever compiled apps with default params so I don't know how to custom compile (yet!)
[02:02] <RAOF> Probably it will just need a rebuild, actually.
[02:02] <Hirato> you can get a list of params if you do ./configure --help :)
[02:02] <l337ingDisorder> I've tried just installing libffi4 but I get an error saying Dependency unsatisfiable: gcc-4.2-base
[02:02] <RAOF> Right.
[02:02]  * Hobbsee notes that glipper doesn't actually depend on libffi4 anymore.
[02:02] <bruce89> is glipper installed from source?
[02:02] <Hobbsee> where, exactly, is your package from?
[02:02] <l337ingDisorder> heh I tried ./configure --help before coming in here and couldn't make heads or tails of the output ;)
[02:03] <l337ingDisorder> http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/libffi4
[02:03] <RAOF> Hobbsee: I've just installed from Universe, and it fails to run because it can't find libffi.so.4 :)
[02:03] <Hobbsee> RAOF: oh, run.  Right.
[02:03] <l337ingDisorder> yeah the current build depends on libffi4 but 8.10 has libffi5
[02:03] <bruce89> don't use Hardy packages in Intrepid
[02:03] <l337ingDisorder> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/glipper/+bug/257052 is the launchpad thread for this issue
[02:03] <l337ingDisorder> and their fix works for most people but not for me
[02:03] <Hobbsee> RAOF: in a rather oblique way, it seems to depend on it somehow.
[02:03] <RAOF> Indeed it does.
[02:04] <bruce89> through Python
[02:04] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Heh.
[02:04] <Hobbsee> RAOF: do you wnat to fix it, or will i?
[02:04] <Hobbsee> if you fix it, i can accept it :P
[02:04] <RAOF> Hobbsee: The reason the package doesn't depend on libffi4?  Because the dependencies are broken :)
[02:05] <l337ingDisorder> I don't suppose any of you guys have a copy of libffi.so.4 for x64 that you could e-mail me? :)
[02:05] <Hobbsee> ah.
[02:05] <RAOF> Someone didn't realise that python:Depends isn't magic, it seems.
[02:05] <Hobbsee> l337ingDisorder: actually fixing it might be a better solution.
[02:05] <RAOF> Oh, wow.  Why isn't this #ubuntu-motu :)
[02:05] <Hirato> can't you just make a symlink to point to the new libffi, you know, trick it
[02:06] <l337ingDisorder> heh agreed but I don't have the prowess to fix something like this at this point in my linux career ;)
[02:07] <Hobbsee> RAOF: because a user found it?  :)
[02:07] <RAOF> Hobbsee: And I'm fixing it :)
[02:07] <Hobbsee> RAOF: excellent, thank s:)
[02:07] <tim> I can't mount a working usb drive
[02:07] <l337ingDisorder> RAOF: Think this'll be a quick fix? (ie, within the next 10 mins or so?) or should I try a workaround for tonight?
[02:08] <Hirato> tim is usbmount installed?
[02:09] <RAOF> l337ingDisorder: Oh, it'll be quick, but it won't fix your system until it's published, built, etc.
[02:09] <l337ingDisorder> ...
[02:09] <tim> It will be in a sec
[02:09] <Hobbsee> l337ingDisorder: it'll take at least an hour.  probably 2.
[02:09] <l337ingDisorder> ok and how lond should I expect the publishing/building process to take? :)
[02:09] <bruce89> ages
[02:09] <bruce89> there is a beta freeze on I think
[02:09] <Necrosan> Stay seated like a sofa.
[02:09] <l337ingDisorder> oh pfff that's nuthin, it takes me that long just to roll a joint!
[02:10] <Hobbsee> bruce89: sure, but i can let things thru that.
[02:10] <bruce89> wow
[02:10] <l337ingDisorder> RAOF: can you send me the .deb before publishing? Or will that break the internet? ;)
[02:10] <tim> k usbmount is installed
[02:10] <bruce89> it's not putting "google" into google
[02:10] <l337ingDisorder> heheh
[02:10] <RAOF> Aaand it's time to send this bug upstream to Debian.
[02:10] <l337ingDisorder> that show is so awesome
[02:11] <l337ingDisorder> RAOF: ack, that sounds like bad news..
[02:11] <RAOF> Oh, no it isn't.
[02:11] <Hobbsee> oh, sigh.  launchpad's broken again.
[02:11] <burner> so is my network card ;)
[02:11] <l337ingDisorder> "Dear fire brigade, I would like to inform you that a fire has just broken out --- no, too formal..."
[02:11] <RAOF> It just means that it'll get fixed in Debian and synced to Jaunty.
[02:12] <l337ingDisorder> ah
[02:12] <bruce89> 01189998811991197253
[02:14] <tim> no luck
[02:15] <Necrosan> wait
[02:15] <Necrosan> Intrepid Ibex
[02:15] <Necrosan> Jaunty Jaundice?
[02:15] <l337ingDisorder> lol
[02:15] <l337ingDisorder> Jaunty Jowels
[02:15] <Necrosan> Jaunty Jalopniks
[02:15] <Necrosan> or my name
[02:15] <Necrosan> Jaunty Justin
[02:16] <l337ingDisorder> Jaunty Jaguar
[02:16] <l337ingDisorder> that'd be pimp
[02:16] <l337ingDisorder> or Jaunty Jackal
[02:16] <l337ingDisorder> there could be a Canada-specific release called Jaunty Jay
[02:16] <l337ingDisorder> or a bloat-ware release called Jaunty Jellyfish
[02:17] <l337ingDisorder> and an Australian release called Jaunty Joey (baby kangaroo)
[02:18] <l337ingDisorder> so at this point, RAOF, should I just sit tight and stop pestering you, knowing that when I wake up tomorrow there'll be an update to the repositories and I can just install the intrepid glipper? Or should I check back with you in an hour or so and have you DCC a .deb over to me to get around any potential beta freezes?
[02:19] <RAOF> l337ingDisorder: glipper is in Universe (and isn't shipped on any of the xubuntu/etc CDs).  There's no beta freeze for it.
[02:19] <Hobbsee> RAOF: poke me when you get an accepted mail for it, please :)
[02:19] <RAOF> Hobbsee: I shall.
[02:19] <Hobbsee> well, a "waiting for something or other" mail.
[02:20] <ianliu_88> When will ubuntu beta be released? I'm looking forward to test it but I'm afraid of alpha ;)
[02:20] <bruce89> I think it's scheduled for tomorrow
[02:21] <bruce89> or today, Thursday to be precise
[02:21] <ianliu_88> hmm, nice
[02:21] <RAOF> Aw, man.  Glipper's so orphaned in Debian.
[02:21] <l337ingDisorder> um, beta was scheduled for a week ago or so wasn't it?
[02:21] <ianliu_88> well, where can I see it?
[02:22] <l337ingDisorder> RAOF: does that mean I'll be able to get it from the repository tomorrow, or that I should check back with you later? :)
[02:22] <l337ingDisorder> sorry, don't mean to be a pest.. just on the slower end of the learning curve ;)
[02:23] <RAOF> l337ingDisorder: It should be available tomorrow.
[02:23] <l337ingDisorder> awesome! thanks :) and I'd just download it through synaptic? (Or will update-manager do all the legwork for me?)
[02:23]  * RAOF wonders why glipper calls dh_mkshlibs but not dh_shlibdeps.
[02:23] <RAOF> l337ingDisorder: The latter; it'll be an update.
[02:23] <l337ingDisorder> freakin excellent
[02:24] <l337ingDisorder> dude you probably get this a lot, but I wanna have your children. ;)
[02:24]  * l337ingDisorder drops to his knees, faces east, and starts making gibberish prayers in the name of RAOF
[02:25] <bruce89> l337ingDisorder: synaptic and update-manager are the same thing after all
[02:25] <l337ingDisorder> good to know :) I figured update-manager was just an app that called on synaptic
[02:25] <bruce89> they are both apt frontends
[02:26] <RAOF> Man.  Glipper adds licence headers in a patch.
[02:26] <Hobbsee> ouch?
[02:26] <RAOF> Ya.
[02:26] <l337ingDisorder> i can't begin to tell you the frustration that has been caused by something as seemingly insignificant as a broken clipboard manager... knowing it's being addressed just makes my day :)
[02:26] <bruce89> RAOF: upstream has been quiet for 6 months
[02:26]  * RAOF rebuilds, this time with an actual call to dh_shlibdeps
[02:27] <bruce89> what is the issue anyway>
[02:27] <RAOF> bruce89: glipper has an unspecified dependency on libffi4, which we no longer ship.
[02:28]  * RAOF ponders adopting glipper in Debian.
[02:28] <l337ingDisorder> bruce: actually that's not specifically my issue.. on the launchpad there's a workaround involving a libffi4.deb package that seems to work for most folks, but when I run it I get "Error: Dependency not satisfiable: gcc-4.2-base"
[02:29] <l337ingDisorder> but it seems moot now as RAOF is a super hero :)
[02:29] <Zooeee> Test
[02:29] <bruce89> libffi being brought in by the python-gnome bindings
[02:29] <Hobbsee> RAOF: you know you want to :)
[02:29] <RAOF> No, actually.  Direct dependence on libffi, because it's a python extension module.
[02:30] <Hobbsee> l337ingDisorder: well, it's usually not a good idea to try and use thsoe "fixes", because they usually don't work.
[02:30] <Hobbsee> or break your system in other ways.
[02:30] <bruce89> but not actually specified package wise
[02:30] <l337ingDisorder> heh
[02:30] <l337ingDisorder> fair enuf
[02:31] <bruce89> the fun of libraries
[02:31] <l337ingDisorder> hmm the last time I saw the words "fun" and "libraries" in the same sentence it was Frosh week
[02:31] <l337ingDisorder> and it involved many cans of silly string
[02:32] <bruce89> interesting thing to call it
[02:32] <l337ingDisorder> ok back to Beginning Linux Programming
[02:32] <l337ingDisorder> thanks for the help guys!
[02:33] <l337ingDisorder> RAOF: ESPECIALLY thanks to you for taking up the task of squishing this bug! :)
[02:35] <Daemonik> If I wanted to allow another user to run an X programs on my display (say my DISPLAY were :1003) but not allow all users to do so how would I allow that specific user and only that specific user to do so?
[02:56] <DanaG> wtf... connection failed, connecting to PulseAudio.
[02:56] <DanaG> Oh, I see.. PulseAudio isn't running.
[02:56] <bruce89> it's been like that for ages
[02:57] <bruce89> well, a week
[02:57] <DanaG> Yeah, it randomly decides to quit because it's idle....
[02:57] <DanaG> sounds like a lazy bum, to me.
[02:58] <Hirato> is there a reason KDE4 is now the default KDE; despite it being unbearably slow with proprietary drivers many use
[02:59] <RAOF> Because it's shiny and new?
[02:59] <RAOF> Also, because that's where upstream development is.
[02:59] <bruce89> people would moan if it weren't in Intrepid
[02:59] <Hobbsee> they'd also moan if it wasn't the default.
[02:59] <Hobbsee> Hirato: surely that's a reason for not using propriatery drivers?
[03:00] <Hirato> I apologize for loving my 3D games then :P
[03:00] <RAOF> Hirato: For what it's worth, KDE4 is lightning fast with the nouveau drivers ;)
[03:00] <Hirato> I'm aware that KDe4 is at a minimum of 200x faster with the nv driver when compared to nvidia :P
[03:00] <Hirato> in my opinion at least ^^
[03:01] <Hirato> but really, I love my snazzy compositing effects and 3D games :)
[03:01] <jStefan> gnome works for me :P
[03:01] <RAOF> The -177 drivers have some tweaks to accelerate things that KDE4 uses a lot.
[03:01] <bruce89> kstars seemed gey slow on intel hw
[03:02] <Hirato> I'm using the absolute newest beta drivers available, I assure you, most click still take 5 seconds to trigger a response :(
[03:04]  * bruce89 wonders why people refer to stable releases by their first name, but unstables by their second
[03:07] <Hirato> I don't suppose maknig KDE4 the default is a scheme to force nvidia to improve their drivers :D
[03:11] <RAOF> I wish.
[03:11] <nblracer> hmm having a hard time playing a raw avi
[03:11] <RAOF> Well, at least s/improve/give the nouveau guys some documentation/
[03:11] <RAOF> nblracer: What's a "raw AVI"? :)
[03:12] <nblracer> no codec, no compresstion
[03:12] <IdleOne> evening folks. can someone help me with some math formula? I need to calculate interest compounded daily but I have no idea how to do that
[03:12] <td123> IdleOne: google is your friend
[03:12] <RAOF> nblracer: Ah, an avi file containing a raw stream.
[03:12] <IdleOne> td123: indeed :) lemme search
[03:13] <td123> IdleOne: stuff like that just has a formula, you don't need to think about it
[03:13] <nblracer> IdleOne:  thats easy
[03:13] <RAOF> IdleOne: Alternatively, your mathematics textbook should have the answer ;)
[03:13] <DanaG> Or at the very very least, they could fund the nouveau developers by giving them hardware, or something.
[03:13] <DanaG> ask google. =þ
[03:13] <IdleOne> RAOF: I have not been in school for over 15 years
[03:13] <RAOF> DanaG: Specs would be better; they've actually got plenty of hardware.
[03:13] <RAOF> IdleOne: Ah.  This _isnt'_ as a part of a maths assignment? :)
[03:13] <nblracer> =p(1r/c)^*rc)
[03:13] <DanaG> Aah.
[03:13] <td123> RAOF: mine doesn't :/ you get past a point (hopefully) where the books don't have to include that formula in the book :D
[03:14] <IdleOne> RAOF: lol nope
[03:15] <Codemaster> i was told to bring my question about the nvidia drivers and intrepid into here; the 177 drivers failed, so I'm attempting again with the 173 drivers in a bit
[03:15] <RAOF> DanaG: Also, having the support of nvidia might get others to fund actual full-time developers; see, for example, ati.
[03:15] <DanaG> clma.mo?  /me wonders where that is.
[03:15] <nblracer> lol i wnt from 100% charge to 5% in 9 min
[03:16] <DanaG> Capacity: 69% (Poor).
[03:16] <DanaG> Nice.
[03:16] <td123> I feel like 8.10 alpha is alot more stable then 8.04 was at this stage... what are your thoughts?
[03:16] <DanaG> Just watch out for that Intel NIC issue.
[03:16] <DanaG> ... and if you have nvidia 96 drivers... it sucks.
[03:16] <DanaG> s/have/need/
[03:16] <td123> DanaG: :P unless my vm has it, I don't have to worry
[03:17] <nblracer> RAOF: it says i dont have the resources
[03:17] <td123> suprisingly, virtualbox + winxp + 8.10 seem to run queit smoothly
[03:17] <maccam-sager> yeah i'm waiting for that intel issue to get fixed before i install
[03:18] <RAOF> nblracer: Sorry?  What says you don't have the resources (to do what?)
[03:18] <td123> quite
[03:18] <jStefan> interest compounded daily, i'm sure wikipedia should cover that
[03:18] <nblracer> both vlc and the default video player
[03:19] <td123> jStefan: your reaction time is scary
[03:19] <jStefan> just under 10 minutes :P
[03:19] <nblracer> it plays when i'm in windows, so the computer should be able to handle it
[03:19] <RAOF> nblracer: Oh, your raw avi?
[03:19] <nblracer> yea
[03:19] <RAOF> What's the error message?
[03:19] <RAOF> Terminal output?
[03:19] <RAOF> (etc)
[03:21] <jStefan> quick poll, if you have ubuntu on a drive shared with another os, what % of the drive do you have reserved for ubuntu?
[03:21] <Codemaster> 40%
[03:21] <Codemaster> windows usually has games which are huge :)
[03:21] <Codemaster> and i keep my programming/development/other stuff in linux
[03:21] <td123> jStefan: 100 * 15/160 (hey you didn't say to calculate)
[03:22]  * DanaG once ran into an MP3 file that was all screwed up... it was like somebody stuck a bit of an HTML file in a duplicate set of ID3 tags.
[03:22] <td123> Codemaster: same :D
[03:22] <DanaG> It had ID3<random html stuff> ..... garbage..... ID3 <real tags> .... actual data.
[03:23] <td123> Codemaster: only reason I still have windows is counter strike and ruckus, otherwise, I use only open source on windows... besides windows too of course
[03:23] <jStefan> so you have 15gb out of 160?
[03:23] <td123> jStefan: yes, for ubuntu
[03:23] <td123> jStefan: you'll be quite surprised when you don't have games/music stored on your harddrive
[03:23] <jStefan> this is a brand new 500gb, i took 400gb for windows, the rest is waiting on intrepid
[03:24] <nblracer> yea ubuntu dont need much
[03:24] <nblracer> i do the same
[03:25] <nblracer> and store my photos and vids on ntfs/windows
[03:25] <nblracer> that way i have accesses to them in windows
[03:25] <jStefan> yeah files which "can" be used on both (music/photos), i put on the ntfs drive
[03:25] <Jordan_U> If the intel nick issue isn't fixed before release will Intrepid still use 2.6.27 ?
[03:25] <td123> Jordan_U: probably not
[03:25] <Codemaster> i have two linux-only machines, one windows-only and a hybrid laptop
[03:26] <td123> Codemaster: what is linux-only about the windows-only one ;)
[03:26] <Codemaster> the only two issues i have with 8.10 so far are (a) nvidia driver issues and (b) slower boot
[03:26] <jStefan> i have 1 dual boot, 1 windows only, for myself. soon both will be dual boot
[03:26] <Codemaster> linux-only for my IRC/web browsing/programming machine
[03:26] <Codemaster> windows-only for gaming, IMing, music, etc
[03:27] <Codemaster> although i really like amarok
[03:27] <td123> Codemaster: same, only thing keeping me back is ruckus and counter strike (which have no solutions to my problems on linux :/)
[03:27]  * DanaG wishes the KDE4 amarok were more like the KDE3 amarok.
[03:27] <Codemaster> cedega? :/
[03:27] <jStefan> then i have my mom using ubuntu alone, and my dad's laptop with ubuntu too. his desktop is vista thou :(
[03:27] <DanaG> KDE4 amarok sucks.
[03:27] <DanaG> My parents are too stubborn to switch from Windows XP.
[03:27] <td123> Codemaster: Don't feel like paying, at all
[03:27] <Codemaster> tell them to use Mojave
[03:27] <Codemaster> :P
[03:27] <jStefan> DanaG, i forced my mom to use ubuntu after the last virus infection
[03:28] <DanaG> Actually, among my dad's and mom's computers (one for each), they've only ever had like 1 virus infection one time.
[03:28] <td123> jStefan: the last time I put Ubuntu on my parents computer, they didn't notice anything lol :P they said, ooo, nice background and didn't say anything else
[03:28] <jStefan> td123, :D
[03:29]  * Hirato ponders at to why ubuntu had to tinker with his network settings
[03:29] <jStefan> i just refused to fix the computer, if it was going to have windows again
[03:29] <td123> looks like Hirato is in for a surprise
[03:29] <DanaG> Can you use Photoshop Elements in Wine?
[03:29] <jStefan> i dont hate windows, but i've already had to reformat that computer many many times
[03:29] <Hirato> yeah, my apache server is down because my network IP mode swictehd to DHCP again
[03:30] <Jordan_U> Hirato: Network-manager ignores /etc/networking/interfaces now
[03:30] <Hirato> instead of staying at my manuals etting of 10.0.0.50
[03:30] <jStefan> DanaG, i suggest you consult the winhq DB
[03:30]  * DanaG has two computers on each of two pools of dhcp leases...
[03:30] <DanaG> One is 192.168.1.x, the other is .2.x.
[03:30] <DanaG> I've given each range 100 addresses to work with, so thanks to the hash function in dnsmasq (on the dd-wrt router), each NIC essentially ALWAYS gets the same IP address.
[03:30] <Hirato> that explains it
[03:31] <Jordan_U> Hirato: You can configure manual ip's in network-manage now though
[03:31] <jStefan> i will eventually need to move my ubuntu partition to unpartitioned spaec on another drive, without affecting existing partitions on the 2nd drive. Any ideas?
[03:31] <Codemaster> oh lovely, "Hardware Drivers" doesn't even show the 173/177 drivers anymore...
[03:31] <Hirato> I think I'll go to gnome, and suffer sound problems, KDE4 is too slow to enjoy
[03:32] <Codemaster> DanaG: iirc, Wine 1.0's requirement was to run photoshop
[03:32] <Jordan_U> Hirato: What sound problems are you having?
[03:32] <td123> Hirato: ya, kde 4 still has to come out with a newer version like 4.2 before I even consider
[03:33]  * DanaG wishes Pulse 0.9.12 wouldn't keep QUITTING.
[03:33] <DanaG> It actually quits when idle... even though it's never been told to do so.
[03:33] <DanaG> Lazy bum.
[03:33] <DanaG> =þ
[03:34] <Hirato> it's mostly stuttering of some kind
[03:34] <Codemaster> the "configuring network interfaces" is where most of my boot time is, it seems.
[03:34] <Codemaster> although I have WICD installed :x
[03:35] <Hirato> I think it has to do with the frequency of the playing audio, as 22050hz plays fine, while 44100hz staggers a bit instead of palyign smoothly
[03:35] <Jordan_U> Codemaster: Try removing WICD then, network-manager does it asyncronously IIRC
[03:35] <td123> danag dmesg?
[03:35] <Codemaster> hm
[03:35] <Codemaster> Jordan_U: it seems to block, though
[03:35] <DanaG> NetworkManager can now do System Settings... that is, networks it will auto-connect to, even before X is up.
[03:36] <Codemaster> then again, i have had problems with my 4965AGN i think the model is
[03:36] <Codemaster> i get random Microcode SW Errors
[03:36] <Codemaster> :(
[03:37]  * DanaG sometimes gets the device randomly disabling its interrupt.
[03:37] <DanaG> It's rare... but it happens.
[03:38] <DanaG> Intel wireless is best for Linux?  .... not when I resume from sleep, and sit there for over 30 seconds before NetworkManager (and iwlist) can even see any networks.
[03:38] <Codemaster> lol
[03:38] <mneptok> DanaG: what alternative with free drivers do you recommend?
[03:38] <Codemaster> the irony is, i tossed mac on my laptop (intel wireless and intel wired) and neither work
[03:39] <Jordan_U> mneptok: Atheros
[03:39] <mneptok> Jordan_U: "free drivers"
[03:39] <DanaG> Apple doesn't use Intel.
[03:39] <DanaG> They're into closed-source.
[03:39] <Codemaster> yu[
[03:39] <DanaG> They use only Atheros and Broadcom.
[03:39] <Codemaster> yeah
[03:39] <Jordan_U> mneptok: ath{5,9}k
[03:39] <Codemaster> i just found it amusing
[03:39] <maccam-sager> atheros is OSS isn't it now?
[03:39] <mneptok> no.
[03:39] <DanaG> I put my Hackintosh partition somewhere as a dd'd image, because I really don't like OS X.
[03:40] <DanaG> ... and I needed the hard drive space back.
[03:40] <Codemaster> yeah, im not fond of it either
[03:40] <DanaG> Quick, resize the left edge of a window!
[03:40] <Codemaster> it's a computer on training wheels, from my experience
[03:40] <DanaG> Oh wait......... you can't.
[03:40] <Jordan_U> mneptok: How are ath5k and ath9k not free?
[03:40] <Codemaster> haha yeah :|
[03:40] <Codemaster> i like going up to my mac friend's laptop, holding shift and tapping F11 rapidly
[03:40] <Codemaster> and grinning
[03:40]  * DanaG goes off to hit "Enter" to rename files... because that makes lots of sense. =þ
[03:40] <burner> mneptok: sure?  http://www.figuiere.net/hub/blog/?2008/09/30/632-atheros-driver-is-free-at-last
[03:41] <mneptok> burner: some are, most are not.
[03:41] <Codemaster> DanaG: because shift + f11 makes it do expose --- in slow motion
[03:41] <Codemaster> and it queues
[03:41] <mneptok> Jordan_U: the 5 and 6 series, yes. anything else, no.
[03:41] <mneptok> s/6/9/
[03:41]  * mneptok queues the Hendrix
[03:42] <DanaG> wtf happened to my SCIM?
[03:42] <DanaG> It won't work.
[03:44] <DanaG> Oh, for some reason, selecting an input method only works with the RIGHT mouse button.  Go figure.
[03:44] <DanaG> My next laptop... will have a 3-button touchpad and a 3-button pointy-stick thingy.
[03:44] <DanaG> Synaptics calls it a TouchStyk.
[03:44] <Codemaster> ah
[03:45] <Codemaster> a joystick mouse or ?
[03:45] <DanaG> It's the eraser thingy.
[03:45] <Codemaster> ah that
[03:45] <DanaG> I prefer touchpads, though.
[03:45] <RAOF> Some might call them "nub" mice.
[03:45] <DanaG> XKCD calls them all sorts of things... but forgot about "eraser".
[03:46] <DanaG> And I just call it a pointy-stick thing.
[03:46] <Codemaster> lol
[03:46] <Codemaster> i usually say nub
[03:46] <DanaG> unicode is fun.... "nüb"
[03:46] <DanaG> =þ
[03:47] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and that 'tongue' is the 'thorn' character.
[03:47] <DanaG> £€€T > 1337.
[03:47]  * DanaG finishes the randomness... now.
[03:48] <Codemaster> how do i go about typing unicode in in a GTK+ interface
[03:48] <Codemaster> i know in windows i can do alt + random keys
[03:50] <Codemaster> woo
[03:50] <Codemaster> 173 seems to work,
[03:50] <maccam-sager> is skype + pulseaudio fixed yet?
[03:50] <Codemaster> maybe i'll see if i can fuss around and get 177 again
[03:51] <td123> maccam-sager: works here, has always worked here
[03:52] <maccam-sager> td123: since when?
[03:54] <td123> maccam-sager: nvm, I haven't tried it on 8.10, I keep forgetting this isn't ubuntu
[03:55] <Codemaster> so you think removing WICD will remove the blocking of networking connections on boot?
[03:56] <maccam-sager> td123: did you try it with 8.04, or are you on a different distro
[03:56] <Codemaster> :) seeing a big nvidia logo and "BETA DRIVER" makes me feel good
[03:56] <td123> maccam-sager: it has always worked with 8.04 with me without hassle
[03:56] <maccam-sager> td123: with other audio programs playing?
[03:57] <td123> maccam-sager: can't remember :/ but I remember no problems at all the times I've used it, but then again I never have audio programs open when I'm talking on skype :P
[03:58] <maccam-sager> i had problems with flash and skype running at the same time
[03:58] <maccam-sager> at the time it was an acknowledged problem with skype and pulseaudio
[04:01] <Codemaster> now that i removed wicd, let's test the boot time/blocking
[04:04] <Codemaster> doesn't seem so
[04:07] <Codemaster> seems "configuring network interfaces" still blocks and is NOT async
[04:07] <Codemaster> :\
[04:10]  * DanaG gets hangs on "Loading hardware drivers" for the first two boots in any while of not having the system on.
[04:18] <Jordan_U> maccam-sager: With asounconf set-pulseaudio you can create a virtual alsa device that you can tell skype to connect to ( since it doesn't use default like it should )
[04:19] <maccam-sager> gotcha
[04:20] <Codemaster> Jordan_U: network-manager doesn't connect async
[04:20] <Codemaster> it still blocks
[04:21] <DanaG> wow, the azureus-support channel deserves a Godwin's Law comparison...
[04:21] <Codemaster> beyond that, things are alright
[04:21] <DanaG> you hit a key one extra time and get three letters instead of two... and it kicks you for repeating characters.
[04:21] <Codemaster> lol
[04:21] <Codemaster> so you get kicked for a "whoops, sorry" thing
[04:22] <DanaG> Then, if you try to rejoin... you get a 5-minute ban.
[04:22] <Codemaster> yeish
[04:22] <maccam-sager> wow
[04:22]  * DanaG fires a V-2 rocket at them.
[04:23] <Jordan_U> DanaG: Have you ever tried talking on #xkcd-signal ?
[04:23] <DanaG> Somebody else join that channel and holler about that, perhaps -- but don't repeat a character 3 times.
[04:23] <DanaG> Nope.
[04:23] <maccam-sager> now i want to find a ridiculous word that has a triple letter and use it in a sentence in there
[04:24] <DanaG> Or perhaps "bookkeepers"
[04:24] <maccam-sager> i suppose i could stress the i on finally
[04:24] <maccam-sager> "fiiiinally...."
[04:24] <DanaG> No, that's not it.
[04:24] <DanaG> The thing was, "torrents" has two 'r' already.
[04:24] <DanaG> So, you hit the key one extra time... bam.
[04:25] <Codemaster> hmmm
[04:25] <Codemaster> nice new network manager :)
[04:25] <Codemaster> what is this "system setting", though
[04:26] <maccam-sager> you're now unblocked, DanaG
[04:26] <maccam-sager> i said hmmm and it didn't kick me...
[04:28] <Codemaster> i like this new network manager so far :D
[04:29] <maccam-sager> yeah i used alpha 6 briefly on my laptop and i saw both VPN and 802.1x support in it
[04:29] <maccam-sager> very important on a college campus ;-)
[04:29] <Codemaster> yup
[04:29]  * Codemaster is in college, too
[04:29] <Codemaster> VPN is <3
[04:29] <Codemaster> however, it doesnt seem enabled?
[04:30] <Codemaster> ah, i see
[04:30] <Codemaster> network-manager-openvpn
[04:31] <maccam-sager> i thought i saw it on my livecd
[04:33] <DanaG> vpnc?
[04:33] <DanaG> It may be that instead of openvpn.
[04:33] <maccam-sager> yeah
[04:33] <maccam-sager> idk
[04:33] <maccam-sager> i saw it on the list when you click the nm-applet
[04:33] <mEck0> hi! is the current version of ubuntu using the new graphical look?
[04:34] <Codemaster> DanaG: it can use either it seems
[04:34] <Codemaster> oh sexy
[04:34] <Codemaster> the connection manger imported my OpenVPN file, even
[04:34] <Codemaster> <3
[04:50] <Jordan_U> mEck0: I am not even sure if there will be a "new look" for intrepid :(
[04:51] <Codemaster> i've only noticed minor UI changes
[04:51] <Codemaster> but nearly wanted to kiss the developers for the new network manager
[04:51]  * DanaG likes PulseAudio 0.9.12 (from ppa)... when it's not being lazy and quitting, or being sucky and crackling.
[04:52] <Codemaster> :)
[04:52] <Jordan_U> DanaG: Any features worth upgrading for?
[04:52] <DanaG> Well, it's a tradeoff.
[04:53] <DanaG> It no longer devours CPU when pausing gstreamer streams on surround devices, and you can disable LFE remixing, but it doesn't behave nicely sometimes.
[04:53] <DanaG> It crackles sometimes, or it quits, especially on Pidgin sounds.
[04:58] <Codemaster> ah
[04:59] <Codemaster> i think the only audio issue i have had w/ ubuntu is my USB stereo
[05:00] <bronzewalla> i can't seem to get my nvidia driver installed properly on fresh intrepid upgrade, it keeps recommending me to switch to glx-96, but then errors out on reboot, can anyone help?
[05:01] <Codemaster> bronzewalla: i just had that problem
[05:02] <Codemaster> i uninstalled all nvidia drivers i had and then did... sudo aptitude install nvidia-177-kernel-source nvidia-177-modaliases nvidia-glx-177
[05:02] <bronzewalla> what nvidia card do you have?
[05:02] <Codemaster> 8600M
[05:03] <RAOF> bronzewalla: Do you have a card which requires the -96 drivers?
[05:03] <bronzewalla> it's a really old card, i think it's a 400 series
[05:03] <RAOF> Then it won't work.
[05:04] <RAOF> Sadly.
[05:04] <bronzewalla> i read i had to use the 173 driver
[05:04] <Codemaster> ah
[05:04] <Codemaster> then replace what i said with 173 instead of 177 :)
[05:04] <Codemaster> i was able to get 177 to work in intrepid
[05:04] <RAOF> It's not supported by the -173 or -177 series drivers, and the -96 and -78 drivers don't support our X server.
[05:04] <RAOF> bronzewalla: Hm.  Do you mean "geforce 4"?
[05:05] <bronzewalla> i think its a 400mx
[05:05] <RAOF> Yeah, that's just not going to work.
[05:05] <RAOF> A 400MX would be a geforce 2 (or possibly a geforce 2 masquerading as a geforce 4) chip.
[05:05] <Codemaster> yeah, that'd be 96 drivers
[05:05] <Codemaster> for 400 MX
[05:06] <bronzewalla> could i manually edit the xorg.conf to fix the boot errors?
[05:06] <Codemaster> possibly
[05:06] <Codemaster> nothing stopping you from doing so :P
[05:07] <RAOF> No.
[05:07] <bronzewalla> do you know if there's a xorg log file?
[05:07] <RAOF> It's not possible to get the 96 drivers to work in Intrepid.
[05:07] <RAOF> Ok.  It's not possible without doing a _lot_ of fiddling.
[05:07] <RAOF> Basically, you need to use half of Hardy :)
[05:08] <bronzewalla> when i go to system> admin> hardware drivers it allows me to install the 96 drivers
[05:08] <RAOF> Yeah, that's a bug.
[05:08] <Codemaster> :x
[05:08] <RAOF> They don't work.
[05:08] <Codemaster> should he just use VESA or
[05:08] <bronzewalla> and works for the time being, but on restart it switches to low graphics mode and shows me some xorg.conf error messages, so i'll give editting the xorg file a shot
[05:08] <RAOF> nv works.
[05:09] <Codemaster> ah
[05:10] <bronzewalla> so say i couldn't get it to work, what's the process for downgrading?
[05:11] <RAOF> Step one: find a Hardy cd...
[05:12] <bronzewalla> step two?
[05:12] <RAOF> Use the hardy CD to install over the top of your intrepid install.
[05:12] <DanaG> =þ
[05:13] <bronzewalla> do i lose everything?
[05:13] <DanaG> Downgrading is possible...  but risky.
[05:13] <Codemaster> RAOF: too bad there isn't a way to simply switch the repos
[05:13] <DanaG> ... and it asks for breakage.
[05:13] <RAOF> Codemaster: Well, there is.  It's just that all the Hardy packages have lower version numbers, and no one ever tests package downgrades.
[05:14] <Codemaster> ah >_>
[05:14] <RAOF> I could happily add all the Hardy repositories to this intrepid install; it wouldn't make any difference.
[05:14] <Codemaster> lol
[05:15] <DanaG> I've done downgrades; it's possible.  Apt-pinning can help.  However, dependencies can be a pain.
[05:15] <RAOF> And there are a non-trivial number of packages which do postinst things on upgradee.
[05:16] <Codemaster> luckily my GeForce FX 5700 i just have stuck in an extra system laying around im using as a psuedo-server
[05:17] <Codemaster> and my GeForce 6600 is in my main linux box (thankfully it can use 173 or 177)
[05:20] <mEck0> Jordan_U: okay, but initially it was a goal to create a new look for intrepid?
[06:11] <Hew> mEck0: Intrepid has a slightly new look (new wallpaper etc), just like past releases.
[06:11] <Hew> mEck0: There is a new dark theme you can choose if you want something quite different :-)
[06:19] <mEck0> Hew: aha :) but the beta isn't released yet or? it will be later today I guess
[06:20] <Hew> mEck0: Yes, beta is planned for Oct 2, and it's Oct 2 for me at least, so hopefully it will be here soon!
[06:20] <mEck0> hehe, yeah hope so :)
[06:20] <mEck0> are there a lot of other changes "above the hood" so to say?
[06:23] <Hew> mEck0: Hmm, there are new releases of a lot of packages which you may use. The artwork is obviously the most visible change.
[06:24] <mEck0> Hew: I really hope that the battery times on laptops are increased and that hibernating is working
[06:24] <mEck0> I'm getting out about 2h 45min maximum battery life from my laptop with ubuntu with openbox. in Windows, I get about 5h 25min
[06:24] <mEck0> thats a huge difference
[06:26] <Hew> mEck0: That is. I don't use a laptop myself so I'm not sure about battery life issues. I had seen figures where Ubuntu lasted longer than Windows though. You may want to look for / report a bug on that issue.
[06:30] <Jordan_U> mEck0: Probably is, but to see if your laptop is being detected as a laptop run "laptop-detect && echo $?"
[06:30] <mEck0> Jordan_U: thx, *testing*
[06:31] <mEck0> Jordan_U: the answer from the command is: $
[06:32] <mEck0> Jordan_U: though, when executing: laptop-mode -v, I've got: "We're a laptop (ACPI batteries found)
[06:32] <Jordan_U> mEck0: Are you sure you entered it correctly?
[06:32] <mEck0> Jordan_U: yes
[06:32] <Jordan_U> mEck0: Ok, well it's definitely seeing that it's a laptop at least
[06:33] <mEck0> I have also enabled laptop-mode in /etc/default/acpi-support
[06:36] <Jordan_U> mEck0: Do you know if your GPU has a low power mode that might not be used?
[06:37] <Jordan_U> mEck0: Also try 'powertop'
[06:38] <mEck0> Jordan_U: regarding my GPU, I don't know, I have a integrated Intel GMA X3100
[06:38] <mEck0> thx, will try with powertop
[06:39] <DanaG> Oh yeah, the laptop-mode-tools package in Ubuntu is rather broken.
[06:39] <DanaG> Deliberately.
[06:40] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/250938
[06:40] <DanaG> Not actually fixed yet!
[06:40] <mEck0> aha :(
[06:40] <Jordan_U> DanaG: Why is it labeled fix released?
[06:41] <DanaG> It was fixed in acpi-support... but they still left the breakage in laptop-mode-tools.
[06:41] <DanaG> =(
[06:46] <Jordan_U> mEck0: Has powertop found anything worth mentioning?
[06:47] <mEck0> Jordan_U: disable hal from polling cdrom, disable bluetooth, enable sata alpm link power management
[06:48] <Jordan_U> mEck0: Bluetooth could be significant
[06:48] <Hirato> how would I prevent ubuntu from recreating auto eth0 and using it in preference to the one I defined?
[06:49] <mEck0> the largest top cause from wakeups are: kernel ipi, rescheduling interrupts (~42%), 2nd in the list is usb (~13%)
[06:55] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and we neeed laptop-mode-tools to be fixed.
[06:55] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and all the acpi-support stuff, to set Intel wireless powersaving..... doesn't seem to run.
[06:55] <DanaG> Or at least, the Intel wireless powersaving sure doesn't get set.
[07:10] <Codemaster> DanaG: how do I "enable" laptop mode
[07:10] <Codemaster> I run sudo laptop_mode and it just says disabled
[07:10] <Codemaster> ...on my laptop :)
[07:11] <DanaG> sudo /etc/init.d/laptop-mode status
[07:12] <DanaG> "If you want to use the latest version of laptop mode tools, you can use the Debian packages, they are compatible enough to work out-of-the-box on Ubuntu. In fact, I would definitely advise using these packages -- the Ubuntu packages are crippled so that some options don't work, the most notable of which are ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE_ON_AC, ENABLE_LAPTOP_MODE_WHEN_LID_CLOSED and DISABLE_LAPTOP_MODE_ON_CRITICAL_BATTERY_LEV"
[07:12] <Codemaster> O_o
[07:13] <Codemaster> hopefully that's fixed in the next 28 days :)
[07:13] <DanaG> So... you can run out of battery and lose work, because Ubuntu wanted it crippled.
[07:13] <DanaG> =(
[07:13] <Codemaster> :[
[07:13] <Codemaster> i sorta like having batterylife
[07:13] <Codemaster> lol
[07:13] <DanaG> Normally, it turns off all data-sensitive optimizations once it gets down below, say, 7% battery.
[07:13] <Codemaster> yea
[07:14] <Codemaster> is that bug about the intel wired chipsets gone, too
[07:15] <Hew> Codemaster: The e1000e bug? No
[07:15] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/laptop-mode-tools/+bug/250935
[07:16] <Hew> Codemaster: Bug 263555. The current "fix" is that e1000e is disabled, so it won't do any damage.
[07:17] <Codemaster> Hew: ah okay, good
[07:18] <Codemaster> i have an intel gigabit wired, not sure if it's e1000e or not, but better safe than sorry...
[07:29] <l337ingDisorder> RAOF you're a rock star!
[07:29] <l337ingDisorder> hilarious...
[07:31] <l337ingDisorder> after you sorted out the glipper issue earlier today, I directed a friend to this chan in hopes one of the devgods in here could help his issues... he just messaged me saying "just on the board with raof, a dev himself"
[07:32] <l337ingDisorder> 5 mins later I get a message, "solved"
[07:32] <Codemaster> :)
[07:32] <l337ingDisorder> at no point did I specifically point him to you RAOF...
[07:32] <l337ingDisorder> freakin hilarious
[07:32] <Hobbsee> RAOF: you'd better start handing out autographs :P
[07:33] <l337ingDisorder> heh
[07:33]  * Codemaster would like an autograph
[07:33] <l337ingDisorder> just wanted to come give you a nerdy high-five and a stone-cold street knuckle-bump with props and hoes and all that
[07:33] <l337ingDisorder> and bling
[07:35]  * RAOF notes that bling is always welcome!
[07:35] <Hirato> I still prefer cookies ^^
[07:36] <RAOF> Bling is better preserved after an overseas postal transit, generally.
[07:36] <DanaG> Dang, now I'm hungry.
[07:36]  * RAOF goes to get some tea and cake.
[07:41] <danbh_intrepid> !schedule
[07:42] <danbh_intrepid> !beta
[07:44] <burner> can anyone help me out?  Whenever I open any bookmarks from the "places" menu, it opens my movie player.  It used to open totem and try to open all files in whatever bookmark I opened... I've since installed VLC and when I click places->home, it opens vlc with all files in home
[07:46] <DanaG> hmm, right-click on a folder on the desktop, and go to "properties"
[07:46] <DanaG> then choose "open folder" in the "open with" tab.
[07:46] <burner> nice, thanks
[07:47] <burner> the upgrade must have switched it somehow
[07:47] <l337ingDisorder> RAOF - more abject praise comin' your way - looks like glipper 1.0-1ubuntu2 is in the repos now, as my update-manager just popped it onto my system and lo and behold I CAN PASTE again!!!
[07:48]  * l337ingDisorder pretends he's from Texas, USA, hops on a horse, throws on a cowboy hat, starts shootin' his six shooters wildly in the sky, hooting and hollering
[07:48] <Hirato> I find it strange that such a primitive feature was disabled due to the lack of a 'clipboard'
[07:50] <mickep> Now neither brasero nor nautilus detects the CD I want to burn. Anyone else has this problem?
[08:09] <ali1234> hey. so i found a webpage that crashes firefox every single time you try to go to it. it is flash related. is there any point in me submitting a bug report?
[08:10] <Hirato> it's firefox related :P
[08:10] <Hirato> you can try installing noscript or flashblock
[08:10] <ali1234> um. i kind of want to see the flash videos, that's why i went to the page
[08:10] <DanaG> It may be that windowless thing.
[08:10] <DanaG> /etc/adobe/mms.cfg:
[08:11] <DanaG> WindowlessDisable=true
[08:11] <mickep> funny: inserting the intrepid CD, browsing it, and then inserting a blank CD made brasero think the ubuntu CD was still there (0 bytes free, but it still seem to burn on it)
[08:11] <DanaG> Make a file by that name, and put that line in it.
[08:11] <ali1234> youtube is currently crashing firefox about 1 time in 4 for me. but this page does it every single time
[08:11] <Hirato> I would've just assumed it's flash player instability udner linux
[08:11] <Hirato> what is this mystery page :)
[08:11] <ali1234> http://stickman.atom.com/
[08:12] <ali1234> argh i clicked on the url to check it and firefox crashed again :(
[08:12] <DanaG> Try that mms.cfg thing.
[08:12] <Hirato> give flashblock a try, it that really is to blame :)
[08:12] <DanaG> It didn't crash for me.
[08:12] <Hirato> me neither :D
[08:12] <ali1234> but i want to watch the videos :)
[08:12]  * Hirato hugs nosript <3
[08:13] <Hirato> then just click the video object :P
[08:13] <Hirato> it's there to only display the flash videos you want it to display :)
[08:16] <ali1234> mms.cfg didn't help
[08:17] <Guest41844> hi
[08:17] <Guest41844> exit
[08:18] <Hirato> ali1234, try this https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/433
[08:21] <Codemaster> flashblock does exaclty what you want, ali1234
[08:21] <Codemaster> puts a big flash icon
[08:21] <Codemaster> and you click it and it plays the flash video
[08:21] <ali1234> at least it will tell me which flash thing is crashing it
[08:22] <ali1234> great. so i clicked on the video to play it. and guess what happened
[08:23] <Hirato> the answer, banners
[08:23] <ali1234> nope. it's the main page content that causes the crash
[08:25] <Hirato> there's at least 3 flash objects on taht page
[08:26]  * DanaG goes off to bed, and sets pidgin status to: "S£33Þing."
[08:26] <DanaG> Yay, unicode.
[08:29] <ali1234> Hirato: i installed flashblock per the url. the crasher is the player used on atom.com - that whole website is unusable for me.
[08:29] <Hirato> strange
[08:30] <Hirato> if you're feelnig extreme, you can try noscript instead, it has a similar method of unblocknig content
[08:31] <ali1234> i dont understand how that would allow flash player to play the content without crashing
[08:31] <Hirato> it blocks the flash objects, so they don't summon the plugin
[08:32] <Hirato> the plugin is waht crashe\s the browser
[08:32] <Hirato> so if you only allow the flash objects you want to display, there should be no crashes, unless the audio device flash is trying to use is currently in use
[08:32] <ali1234> ok, as i said before. i only allowed the flash objects i wanted to play. and firefox crashed instantly 100% of the time.
[08:33] <mnemoc> hi, If if happened to say no to a partial upgrade, how can I force it now?
[08:35] <GoddamnDevil> mnemoc: sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[08:36] <mnemoc> GoddamnDevil: thanks!
[08:37] <mnemoc>   human-theme mplayer
[08:37] <mnemoc> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
[08:37] <mnemoc> :(
[08:38] <GoddamnDevil> there might me dependency problems... wait a while and try again
[08:38] <mnemoc> It has passed a week since I said no to the partial upgrade :-\
[08:39] <Hirato> is your sources.lst pointing to intrepid's servers?
[08:39] <GoddamnDevil> does, apt-cache policy human-theme  print 0.26 for a version
[08:39] <Hirato> and not hardy's?
[08:40] <mnemoc>   Installed: 0.18
[08:40] <mnemoc>   Candidate: 0.27
[08:40] <GoddamnDevil> whou... check your sources.list like Hirato said
[08:41] <mnemoc> all references to hardy are #ed
[08:41] <mnemoc> (according to grep -i)
[08:41] <GoddamnDevil> is #main #restricted #multiverse and #universe enabled
[08:42] <GoddamnDevil> sudo software-properties-gtk
[08:44] <mnemoc> GoddamnDevil, Hirato: http://rafb.net/p/adL4fC20.html <-- grep
[08:44] <mnemoc> GoddamnDevil: only source code is disabled on that dialog, and downloading from "main server"
[08:45] <GoddamnDevil> mnemoc: that looks ok...
[08:45] <GoddamnDevil> sudo apt-get -f install && sudo dpkg --configure -a && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[08:46] <mnemoc> uff.. ok, here I go
[08:46] <mnemoc> install did nothing
[08:46] <mnemoc> --configure -a--configure -a neither
[08:47] <mnemoc> and dist-upgrade again:   human-theme mplayer
[08:47] <mnemoc> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 2 not upgraded.
[08:47] <mnemoc> :(
[08:47] <GoddamnDevil> try to update from synaptic, by hand, sudo synaptic
[08:47] <mnemoc> narf
[08:48] <mnemoc> human-theme not found
[08:48] <mnemoc> mplayer has an star..
[08:49] <mnemoc> updating mplayer
[08:51] <mnemoc> weee! only human-theme is pending now :)
[08:52] <mnemoc> funny... if I search for human-theme nothing is found, but if I search human, there it is :)
[08:53] <mnemoc> ehm? It wants to remove xubuntu-desktop
[08:54] <Hirato> it's a dummy file, so it shoudln't remove any important files
[08:54]  * mnemoc looks at Hirato, then the button, then Hirato again, and presses apply
[08:55] <mnemoc> thanks!
[08:55] <mnemoc> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[10:05] <ingo0815> someone from germany here ?
[10:06] <Tm_T> (:
[10:07] <the_hp> hey everybody, does anyone know when beta images will be ready for download?
[10:07] <sjanssen> hi, I tried to upgrade from 8.04 to the latest devel version, and the "intrepid" upgrade tool exited without any explanation
[10:07] <gnomefreak> the_hp: when they are done being tested.
[10:08] <ingo0815> how can i change the size of icons under gnome
[10:08] <gnomefreak> sjanssen: than i would say rty it again but dont logout shutdown or restart until its upgrade is complete
[10:08] <the_hp> any suggestions when that will be? few hours perhaps?
[10:08] <ingo0815> .gtkrc-2.0 does  not work
[10:08] <gnomefreak> the_hp: no
[10:09] <the_hp> hm, ok
[10:09] <gnomefreak> the_hp: we will let you know when we find out
[10:09] <sjanssen> no messages to stderr/stdout either.  The last thing that happens is a message "Upgrading may reduce desktop effects", saying that the accelerated nvidia driver isn't available for 8.10
[10:09] <sjanssen> gnomefreak: I've run it several times
[10:09] <zniavre> ingo0815:  try to use gnome-color-chooser
[10:09] <sjanssen> does anyone know what might be going on?  How can I debug this further?
[10:09] <the_hp> are there any disadvantages when installing alpha 6 and then updating via packet manager to the latest version?
[10:10] <gnomefreak> sjanssen: what are you using?
[10:10] <gnomefreak> the_hp: no
[10:10] <ingo0815> where cani find  gnome-color-chooser ?
[10:10] <the_hp> ok, then i'll try that, thanks for help gnomefreak
[10:10] <gnomefreak> the_hp: sikmple normal upgrades will get you latest
[10:11] <gnomefreak> ingo0815: its in universe repo
[10:11] <sjanssen> the_hp: what do you mean?
[10:11] <sjanssen> erm, I mean gnomefreak: what do you mean?
[10:12] <gnomefreak> sjanssen: how did you upgrade? example == update-manager -d
[10:13] <sjanssen> gnomefreak: yes, update-manager -d
[10:13] <gnomefreak> sjanssen: when does it exit?
[10:14] <sjanssen> gnomefreak: after I click Yes to the "Upgrading may reduce desktop effects" dialog
[10:14] <mvo> sjanssen: could you please put the files in /var/log/dist-upgrade/* into a bugreport?
[10:14] <gnomefreak> sjanssen: file a bug and add the files that are in /var/log/dist-upgrade
[10:14] <gnomefreak> mvo: :)
[10:14] <mvo> sjanssen: or sent them directly to me? will you be around for testing a fix :) ?
[10:14] <mvo> gnomefreak: thanks!
[10:14] <sjanssen> mvo, gnomefreak: aight, thanks
[10:15] <sjanssen> mvo: sure, I'll be around
[10:15] <gnomefreak> mvo: anytime
[10:15] <mvo> sjanssen: I'm very curious because the nvidia detection is a somewhat new feature that has not gotten as much testing as I would have liked
[10:17] <sjanssen> mvo: do the logs contain anything I should be worried about posting on the internet?
[10:17] <gnomefreak> sjanssen: no
[10:18] <mvo> sjanssen: they should be safe, if you have concerns, you can sent them to be via mail
[10:18] <mvo> (mvo (at) ubuntu.com)
[10:18] <sjanssen> that'll be easier anyway
[10:21] <sjanssen> I should also note that my first upgrade failed because the intrepid process couldn't allocate memory
[10:21] <sjanssen> first attempt, rather
[10:21] <sjanssen> mvo: sent
[10:21] <mvo> thanks
[10:21] <mvo> sjanssen: how much memory does that machine has?
[10:22] <sjanssen> mvo: 512mb, 256mb swap
[10:22] <sjanssen> but I had a bunch of junk running then, so it's not unexpected
[10:23] <gnomefreak> im running on 256mb and 512 swap
[10:24] <gnomefreak> i havent had an issue yet. but nvidia was always a problem with my upgrades
[10:24] <mvo> sjanssen: thanks a lot, I think the log provides enough information, thanks a lot! I ping you when the fix is in
[10:25] <sjanssen> mvo: sure, thanks
[10:28] <ingo0815> gnomefreak, thx for your help with gnome-color-chooser
[10:31] <gnomefreak> ingo0815: np
[10:32] <gnomefreak> anyone use claws-mail and/or knows how to set up gpg signing? i loaded plugin but sign and encrypt are greyed out. and yes key info is set up already
[10:36] <aantn> hello
[10:36] <aantn> how stable is ibex?
[10:36] <aantn> I don't mind minor breakage on an application level, but I want to avoid major system problems
[10:36] <SwedeMike> then you should wait.
[10:37] <aantn> SwedeMike: alright... thanks
[10:42] <ingo0815> how can i install flash under ubuntu64, nspluginwrapper does not work
[10:46] <gnomefreak> ingo0815: it does work. did you enable multiverse repo?
[10:46] <ingo0815> all repos are enabled
[10:46] <ingo0815> nspluginwrapper is installed
[10:46] <gnomefreak> ingo0815: define doesnt work
[10:47] <aantn> SwedeMike: actually, how bad is the breakage?
[10:49] <Yona> So, any news on the upcoming beta? :)
[10:49] <gnomefreak> aantn: not too bad but we cant see the future. normally if you have to ask its normally a good idea to stay on stable for a bit longer
[10:49] <gnomefreak> Yona: when its done being tested
[10:49] <clusty> hey
[10:49] <Yona> gnomefreak: But it's still due today as according to the schedule?
[10:49] <gnomefreak> Yona: if the tests are ok
[10:50] <clusty> while its not a major issue, it's still mildly annoying: the screensaver won't work with compiz. it starts, screen starts to fade in and immediately dies
[10:50] <clusty> check that with metacity works just fine
[10:50] <clusty> any clues in which direction i could dig?
[10:50] <sjanssen> mvo: I think I might have fixed it here.  I just changed the erroring line from "self.cache[pkgname].markKeep()" to "self.controller.cache[pkgname].markKeep()".  Line 166 DistUpgradeQuirks.py.  Does this seem sane?
[10:50] <gnomefreak> but yes today is the day it should however the time zones make it hard for us to tell you what time. but if all tests on the ISO's are ok it will be released as soon as testing/fixing/retesting is done
[10:51] <mvo> sjanssen: yes, that is the fix I put in as well, excellent
[10:51] <mvo> sjanssen: please let it run and let me know if there are more issues (and if not, I still would be intressted in the logs just for reviewing if it did the right thing with your card etc)
[10:52] <ingo0815> no appropriate viewer found for libflashplayer.so
[10:52] <ingo0815> says nspluginwrapper
[10:53] <gnomefreak> thats all the output you get?
[10:53] <ingo0815> *** NSPlugin Viewer  *** ERROR: libflashplayer.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[10:53] <ingo0815> thats too
[10:54] <gnomefreak> ingo0815: file a bug with all info you have and please give me bug number soon. i have a little bit of time now but will be gone rest of morning.
[10:55] <ingo0815> sorry but how can i file a bug
[10:55] <gnomefreak> !bugs
[10:57] <gnomefreak> hmmmm claws mail isnt saving the setting i guess i take time to debug :(
[11:05] <Le-Chuck_ITA> Hi there
[11:05] <Le-Chuck_ITA> have there been modifications in the trash architecture in Intrepid?
[11:05] <gnomefreak> Le-Chuck_ITA: its been moved if that is what you mean
[11:06] <gnomefreak> ill be back in a few
[11:06] <Le-Chuck_ITA> it is urgent: I had 4 gb of data on my desktop and they are not there. There is a directory in the trash with the same name. I may have pressed "canc" by mistake (it's near the spacebar in my fantastic laptop keyboard)
[11:06] <Le-Chuck_ITA> but
[11:06] <Le-Chuck_ITA> the directory in the trash is ...
[11:06] <Le-Chuck_ITA> empty
[11:09] <the_eraser> is the beta out
[11:11] <gnomefreak> the_eraser: no
[11:12] <the_eraser> ok
[11:12] <Le-Chuck_ITA> nobody knows how it can happen that I delete a directory and I don't find my files in the trash?
[11:12] <Le-Chuck_ITA> what happens in gnome when I press "canc" on a directory on the desktop?
[11:18] <gnomefreak> mvo: if you are still around it looks like synaptic is broken. it cant find claws-mail in archives but apt-cache search does
[11:18] <mvo> gnomefreak: do you use the quick find feature?
[11:18] <gnomefreak> mvo: i tried that and the search icon
[11:18] <gnomefreak> neither find it
[11:19] <gnomefreak> wuick search doesnt do anything, iirc i reported a bug for that a while ago
[11:19] <jtheuer> Hi, I want to try kubuntu 8.10 on my new IBM T500 -- which however seem to have a Network card that uses the e1000e driver. Does anyone know when a fixed version of the driver will make it into an image?
[11:19] <mvo> gnomefreak: hm, search icon and "name" as seach parameter does not find it. does it find nothing? or just not the right one. have you tried "claws" as a term?
[11:20] <gnomefreak> mvo: it finds nothing
[11:20] <gnomefreak> let me try another package
[11:21] <gnomefreak> claws-mail-plugins isnt found either. it cant find thunderbird either. so i guess its just not going to find anything
[11:21] <gnomefreak> mvo: ^^
[11:22] <mvo> gnomefreak: does it make a difference if you switch in the icon from name to name+description?
[11:22] <gnomefreak> mvo: no
[11:23] <mvo> hmmm
[11:23] <gnomefreak> mvo: smart --gui has everything
[11:24] <mvo> gnomefreak: could you please start it in a terminal window and check if it prints out anything?
[11:24] <gnomefreak> mvo: yep one sec
[11:24] <mvo> gnomefreak: its suprising because the synaptic search with the icon and the apt-cache search use the same code, I'm puzzled what is broken threre
[11:25] <gnomefreak> mvo: from term it works fine
[11:25] <gnomefreak> opens it up in small window when i use menu to run it its full screen
[11:26] <gnomefreak> quick search doesnt work at all
[11:27] <gnomefreak> search doesnt find anything
[11:27] <gnomefreak> no output in term
[11:27] <mvo> gnomefreak: could you make me a screenshot? what loclae do you use, I wonder if its releated to that
[11:28] <TuTUXG> is gimp 2.6 gonna be in intrepid?
[11:29] <gnomefreak> !info gimp intrepid
[11:29] <gnomefreak> mvo: im using en locale and you just want a screenshot of the search results?
[11:30] <gnomefreak> TuTUXG: no version 2.4.6 will be in intrepid
[11:30] <vega_> TuTUXG: i'd say probably not, as beta is due today
[11:30] <TuTUXG> ...
[11:30] <gnomefreak> aug. 26 was FF
[11:31] <TuTUXG> but will it be update to 2.6 later?
[11:31] <gnomefreak> Feature Freeze. after that no new packages can be intrroduced without having a freeze exception and as i recall its a strict process
[11:31] <gnomefreak> TuTUXG: not unless backported from next release
[11:32] <gnomefreak> but for backport you have to wait untill its in the current devel cycle
[11:32] <TuTUXG> gnomefreak, thanks for the explanation
[11:33] <mvo> gnomefreak: yes please
[11:33] <mvo> gnomefreak: I'm trying to reproduce it now
[11:34] <Ergo^> hi, what time does beta come out ? ;-) if it comes out today
[11:34] <gnomefreak> Ergo^: when its done
[11:34] <terminator> Kubuntu is already out
[11:34] <Ergo^> ah so it will probably appear some time later today ?
[11:35] <terminator> I'm hoping
[11:35] <aantn> hmm... a beta
[11:35] <terminator> yes
[11:35]  * aantn still hasn't decided if he should install intrepid
[11:35] <aantn> I'd do it, but it's on a laptop that I'm borrowing
[11:36] <zniavre> aantn:  you should try intrepid is particular stable (at least for my config)
[11:37] <gnomefreak> mvo: http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotsynapticea4.png  ill ping you when i get out of meeting but i really have to get ready
[11:37] <terminator> don't know till you try it, if not delete it!
[11:37] <jtheuer> when will a fixed e1000e driver be available for intrepid?
[11:38] <terminator> do the ATI open source drivers work in ubuntu beta?
[11:39] <aantn> zniavre: my main motivation is really just the updated clutter and telepathy libraries
[11:39] <aantn> yeah, it would be nice anyway
[11:41] <TuTUXG> gnomefreak, found 2.6 in c-korn's repo
[11:42] <mvo> gnomefreak: could you please clear the quick search entry and see if that changes anything?
[11:47] <gnomefreak> mvo: that worked
[11:48] <gnomefreak> ill be back a bit later and thanks
[12:05] <TuTUXG> jtheuer, the next kernel bump may fix it
[12:06] <jtheuer> so, it may take a few weeks until a fixed intrepid alpha cd is released?
[12:06] <TuTUXG> the beta is coming out today
[12:07] <TuTUXG> i have no idea when the next kernel bump is
[12:10] <TuTUXG> bug 263555
[12:14] <mvo> gnomefreak: thanks! there are certainly (two) problems here a) that the quick search does not work for you b) that the UI is confusing
[12:32] <Cheery> when do you include gimp 2.6 in your repositories?
[12:37] <CE> Partman seems to block installation of Alpha6 on my system, is that a known problem?
[12:38] <CE> sorry, have been disconnected
[12:38] <CE> Partman seems to block installation of Alpha6 on my system, is that a known problem?
[12:40]  * sjanssen crosses fingers for the Intrepid reboot
[12:41] <CE> so, if its not known - should I file a bug?
[12:49] <sjanssen> everything seems to be in order
[12:49] <sjanssen> woo!
[12:50] <mvo> sjanssen: rock!
[12:50] <mvo> sjanssen: could you still sent me the logs for review? just to double check :) ?
[12:50] <Hobbsee> mvo: paper!
[12:51] <sjanssen> mvo: sure
[13:50] <sjanssen> any ETA on when the nvidia modules for older cards will be fixed?
[14:18] <JontheEchidna> sjanssen: you'd have to ask nvidia on that one, which kinda sucks for us legacy users :(
[14:28] <TuTUXG> how do i check if my usb cam driver is registered in the usbcore?
[14:30] <terminator_> How many people are awaiting the 8.10 beta release?
[14:30] <TuTUXG> 1
[14:33] <terminator_> What page can the 8.10 beta be found once released?
[14:34] <sFEARs> hello.. i'm having a problem with apt not recognizing the correct version of xserver-xorg-core..  Depends: xserver-xorg-core (>= 1:0.99.0-1) xserver-xorg-core:  Installed: 2:1.5.1-1ubuntu1  Candidate: 2:1.5.1-1ubuntu1
[14:41] <IdleOne> !beta
[14:44] <sFEARs> i already have my system up to date.. having an issue getting nvidia drivers to install becasue it thinks there are unmet dependencies
[14:45] <luca__> hi everyone
[14:45] <sFEARs> hello
[14:45] <remu> does anyone know around what time today the beta may be released?
[14:45] <luca__> I am trying to install Intrepid beta candidate on a usb bar, but all I get when I boot is "GRUB error 15"
[14:46] <luca__> any ideas?
[14:48] <sFEARs> not sure luca__ i'd say reinstall GRUB but i'm not sure how
[14:48] <luca__> have not installed it in the first place, I fear
[14:49] <luca__> well I have done it before, let's try it :)
[14:49] <sFEARs> could be
[14:49] <sFEARs> i think you can boot up using the live cd, click on install, get to partition, don't format anything, go forward a few steps and it will install grub for you: this is not confirmed however
[14:49] <sFEARs> luca__,
[14:50] <luca__> don't have a live cd with me however, I am trying all this just because I have no access to a blank cd to burn :)
[14:51] <sFEARs> IC
[14:53] <Necrosan> HOW DO I PUT THE IBEX ON MY PLAYSTATION3 (I CALL IT GAMESTATION)
[14:53] <Mechdave> Hey all, anyone know how I can get wifi to remember the wpa2 pass phrase?
[14:54]  * Tm_T slaps Necrosan with sign of "stop yelling, kid"
[14:54] <Necrosan> I CAN'T TURN MY CAPSLOCK OFF.. SPILT BEER ON IT LAST NIGHT :(
[14:55] <Necrosan> I APOLOGIZE FOR OFFENDING ANYONE
[14:55] <Nece228> wheres ubuntu 8.10 beta?
[14:55] <Tm_T> nowhere
[14:55] <Necrosan> IM LOOKING FOR IT TOO, NECE228
[14:56] <Mechdave> Necrosan, do a bash script to convert caps to non caps ;)
[14:56] <scizzo-> Necrosan: remove the caps-lock
[14:56] <JontheEchidna> you could hold down shift while you type to
[14:56] <luca__> reboot
[14:56] <scizzo-> Necrosan: its annoying
[14:56] <Necrosan> IM HOLDING SHIFT
[14:56] <Necrosan> IT DOES NOTHING IN XCHAT AQUA
[14:56] <Necrosan> PLEASE DONT BAN ME, I REALLY AM INTERESTED IN IBEX
[14:56] <Mechdave> Necrosan, have you a spare keyboard?
[14:56] <Nece228> so beta release is deffered?
[14:56] <DanaG> Oh yeah, go to Gnome keyboard settings.
[14:56] <DanaG> There's a "swap caps and ctrl" option.
[14:56] <Necrosan> THIS IS MY ONLY USB KEYBOARD
[14:57] <scizzo-> Necrosan: its not out yet
[14:57] <Necrosan> AND IM ON MAC OS X 10.5
[14:57] <DanaG> Oh.
[14:57] <DanaG> Hmm, perhaps there's a command-line way to unset caps lock.
[14:57] <Tm_T> Nece228: no, it's just not out yet
[14:57] <DanaG> http://www.tech-recipes.com/rx/2181/mac_os_x_disable_caps_lock_key/
[14:58] <DanaG> Try setting that, and then rebooting.
[14:58] <Daviey> xmodmap -e "remove lock = Caps_Lock"
[14:58] <Daviey> ah, my bad
[14:59] <DanaG> One way to clean a keyboard: disconnect it from the computer, then soak it in a vat of pure (as pure as possible) water.  Then let it dry completely (such as for a few hours in direct sunlight, or such.
[14:59] <DanaG> ).
[15:00] <DanaG> You know you're a programmer when you feel _compelled_ to match parentheses.  =þ
[15:00] <Mechdave> DanaG, lol
[15:01] <d4t4min3r> hello
[15:06] <Mechdave> Anyone know anything about the NetworkManager Applet?
[15:07]  * penguin42 is having problems with display auto detect on Intrepid - is it documented anywhere - can it be overridden with an X config?
[15:10] <d4t4min3r> penguin42, is intrepid still alpha or did the beta release?
[15:10] <penguin42> d4t4min3r: Not sure; I'm on the latest updated set
[15:11] <DanaG> I hope they'll get the e1000e fix into the beta.
[15:11] <Hobbsee> they won't.
[15:11] <DanaG> Damn.
[15:11] <DanaG> That gives a bad impression.
[15:11] <Hobbsee> as does delaying it, and making everyone test it *again*.
[15:11] <DanaG> Yeah, and it's better to have ethernet not work due to missing driver, than to permanently damage hardware.
[15:12] <penguin42> a guy from Intel posted a fix last night to lkml though so it should catch up pretty quickly
[15:12] <penguin42> fix/workaround
[15:12] <Hobbsee> penguin42: there's already an upload in the queue fixing it.
[15:12] <penguin42> Hobbsee: cool
[15:12] <Wutz1> Hey, is anyone generally disapointed by the fact that interpid still hasnt gotten any real nice new theme yet
[15:12] <penguin42> so - anyone suggest how the display autodetect works?
[15:14] <DanaG> Oh yeah, here's an idea for the beta: compile packages for the fixed version of the e1000e module, and post them separately.
[15:14] <penguin42> DanaG: I'm sure it will go into the update blob so it'll happen quite quickly
[15:15] <penguin42> (except that is for the e1000e guys who have no networking so can't download them :-)
[15:16] <DanaG> That's what I meant... it'd be a download of just the driver itself.  Perhaps it could even just be the .ko file, not even a deb file.
[15:16] <DanaG> You'd need one for each flavor of kernel, though.
[15:16] <DanaG> So, they could pre-download it, even before the updated kernel is released.
[15:16] <DanaG> I do always try to keep at least one old major-version kernel around.
[15:18]  * DanaG goes offline now.
[15:19] <remu> does anyone have the following soundcard? IDT High Definition Audio CODEC
[15:19] <Allah> hmm ... is http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current the latest current build of 8.10 ?
[15:19] <sFEARs> exit
[15:19]  * penguin42 submits a defect for compiz won't stay off - I turn it off but it comes back next time I start X
[15:19] <Hobbsee> Allah: should be - note, that'll be the alternate cd.
[15:20] <Allah> Hobbsee: yes, i prefer the alt.
[15:20] <Hobbsee> Allah: cool
[15:20] <Allah> is it in BETA yet? i heard it'll be released today.
[15:21] <Allah> ;]
[15:21] <Wutz1> Does anyone hate the fact that the new theme is exactly the same thing except with a different engine?
[15:22] <Hobbsee> Wutz1: and a lot darker, and a different background?
[15:23] <dfgas> is the theme final? have you reviewed the timeline to 8.10 to see if the theme is final?
[15:23] <sFEARs> nvidia-glx-legacy: Depends: xserver-xorg-core (>= 1:0.99.0-1) :  xserver-xorg-core:  Installed: 2:1.5.1-1ubuntu1  Candidate: 2:1.5.1-1ubuntu1  :  does anyone know why apt thinks there are unmet dependencies?
[15:23] <Wutz1> i'm not talking about newhuman
[15:23] <remu> Wutz1: not really, I normally change the theme anyways, I wasn't a huge fan of NewHuman, but it is better than Human imo.
[15:24] <Allah> PPP issues have been resolved in this release ... hmm.
[15:28] <sFEARs> how do i file a bug report?
[15:29] <bazhang> !bugs
[15:30] <sFEARs> thanks
[15:32] <Allah> hmm ... judging from this list the Sierra Wireless Aircard 580 isn't supported in the 3G hardware support https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkManager/Hardware/3G
[15:33] <Allah> others are, however ...
[15:38] <Allah> Hobbsee: do you reckon that there's equal support for it, along with it's other range of cards?
[15:38] <Hobbsee> Allah: no idea.
[16:01] <x1250> uhm, firefox is so damn slow, sometimes is unusable. I thought it would be Javascript, but disabling it doesn't improve it a bit.
[16:04] <Alex_Gaynor> Are there any plans to create a python2.6 package?
[16:12] <Allah> hello, x1250
[16:13] <Allah> does your firefox utilize pango?
[16:13] <x1250> Allah, how can I check that?
[16:17] <Allah> what version of firefox is this?
[16:18] <Allah> as far as i know the firefox build in ubuntu for version 2 of firefox adds the --enable pango
[16:18] <x1250> Allah, 3.0.3
[16:19] <Allah> i'm not at all certain about 3, however.
[16:19] <Allah> iirc, downloading firefox from mozilla.com might fix this.
[16:20] <Allah> or simply, export MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO=1 in your terminal.
[16:20] <x1250> ok, I'll test that thanks
[16:20] <Allah> ok.
[16:21] <Allah> Alex_Gaynor: it is my understanding that python 2.6 has been abandoned.
[16:22] <Allah> Alex_Gaynor: maybe it'll be included, but i can't say.
[16:22] <Alex_Gaynor> Allah: Well, I wouldn't expect it as the default, but a seperate package would be nice
[16:23] <Allah> why don't you just compile from source for now?
[16:27] <Allah> Alex_Gaynor: http://python.org/ftp/python/2.6/Python-2.6.tar.bz2
[16:27] <Alex_Gaynor> Yeah that's what i'm going to do
[16:28] <sFEARs> since i've upgraded to 8.10, i've had some video issues (of course) with nvidia.  When i try to "dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg" it only takes me through the keyboard & mouse sections, it finshes and drops back to a terminal screen before it asks me for driver or screen information.  is this an issue with the newer kernel and nvidia cards?
[16:31] <sFEARs>  nvidia-glx-legacy: Depends: xserver-xorg-core (>= 1:0.99.0-1) but it is not going to be installed ::  the version i'm currently using is Installed: 2:1.5.1-1ubuntu1.  is this package not complete yet?
[16:32] <Codemaster> i had issues with that, too, however i am running nvidia 177, not legacy
[16:32] <Codemaster> i simply had to install the glx, modaliases, and kernel sources for 177
[16:32] <Codemaster> (then run nvidia-xconfig, of course)
[16:33] <sFEARs> how do you figure out which version is needed? 177 or 91 or legacy?
[16:33] <sFEARs> mabey that's my issue
[16:33] <Codemaster> what card do you have
[16:33] <sFEARs> not 100% sure
[16:34] <sFEARs> i think it is more a problem with the dependancy issue
[16:34] <Codemaster> maybe go to system > administration > hardware drivers
[16:34] <sFEARs> but again.. not sure.. mabey i don't need legacy drivers
[16:34] <sFEARs> i used to get a prompt to download restricted drivers.. i havn't seen that since the dist upgrade to 8.10
[16:34] <void^> lspci
[16:35] <Codemaster> yeah, try running it manually
[16:35] <sFEARs>  nVidia Corporation NV17 [GeForce4 440 Go 64M]
[16:35] <Codemaster> ah. pl
[16:35] <Codemaster> *ok
[16:35] <Codemaster> you'll be using legacy, then
[16:35] <Codemaster> 96, that is
[16:36] <void^> that probably needs some legacy triber, which don't work with current kernels
[16:37] <void^> *driver
[16:37] <sFEARs> at the hardware drivers box there is nothing in there.. earlier before i removed a couple of things (apt-get remove nvidia*) there was "96 [recommended]" and when i activated & restarted i got an error "no screens found"
[16:37] <sFEARs> so i dropped the old xorg.conf file back in and i got my gui back
[16:37] <void^> only 173 and 177 work currently
[16:38] <sFEARs> so i just have to wait for them to get 96 working correctally?
[16:38] <Codemaster> basically
[16:38] <sFEARs> drag
[16:39] <sFEARs> is there a way i can increase my screen resolution without enabeling the 3d effects
[16:39] <sFEARs> i'm stuck at 800x600
[16:46] <rom1v> hi
[16:47] <rom1v> will gimp 2.6 be in intrepid?
[16:49] <negge> I see the beta is supposed to be out today. I've been running the alpha version for some time now, have I already gotten all the beta updates or are they still due to be released?
[16:49]  * penguin42 sighs - X is still fighting
[16:50] <penguin42> can someone explain to me where the KDE and Gnome display settings/resolution tools store their configs?
[16:50] <penguin42> I've had a hunt in gconf and can't find it
[16:56] <penguin42> the FixVideoResolutionHowto is referencing a path in gconf that doesn't exist in mine
[16:59] <negge> is the beta going to be out today or is it delayed?
[17:02] <Allah> negge: /topic
[17:03] <Allah> do you have a problem with alpha right now?
[17:03] <Allah> penguin42: this might be useful -http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-686769.html
[17:05] <penguin42> Allah: Thanks - but I was after some more basic info; I want to understand where settings live now other than xorg.conf
[17:06] <mickep> Any ideas of how one can fix a bug like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/267719 ? (more info I can add, etc)
[17:07] <negge> Allah: sorry I didn't read that far to the right
[17:07] <Allah> penguin42: i'm not sure. i don't use xorg.
[17:07] <negge> Allah: I have some minor irritating issues, nothing big though
[17:07] <penguin42> Allah: You don't?
[17:07] <Allah> negge: what like?
[17:07] <negge> sometimes when I reboot the disk order changes so my fstab points to the wrong device
[17:08] <negge> Allah: /dev/sdb becomes /dev/sda and vice versa
[17:08] <negge> I need to have two copies of fstab and switch between them when I notice some drives won't mount
[17:08] <penguin42> negge: Yes I've seen that
[17:09] <penguin42> negge: Do you have more than one disc controller?
[17:09] <negge> also my mouse freezes sometimes which is impossible to recover from without a cold reboot though I don't think that's Ubuntus fault, I think my mobo is dying on me
[17:09] <Pici> negge: using uuids in your fstab should fix that.
[17:09] <negge> penguin42: one disk is IDE and one is SATA
[17:09] <penguin42> negge: see #261178 is where I reported my problem
[17:09] <penguin42> negge: Feel free to add a note to that bug
[17:10] <negge> Pici: it makes the fstab look so unorganized... I don't see why that should be necessary either
[17:10] <Pici> ubottu: bug 261178
[17:10] <negge> penguin42: I'll check it out
[17:10] <Allah> penguin42: no, i don't
[17:10] <penguin42> negge: The trick to get it to work is to never use absolute names in the fstab - just use uuid or label based stuff, that way the order doesn't matter (except for grub)
[17:11] <penguin42> negge: Getting raid to work with that is really difficult though
[17:12] <Allah> [This is on Intrepid Alpha 4 kept upto date. Linux gallifrey 2.6.26-5-generic #1 SMP Fri Aug 15 13:54:58 UTC 2008]
[17:12] <Allah> has it been resolved in Alpha 6?
[17:13]  * penguin42 wonders where to ask about X config issues on Intrepid
[17:13] <Allah> bbiaw
[17:13] <penguin42> the xorg.conf just has a cryptic comment that it ignores some stuff now but doesn't say what
[17:14] <penguin42> has anyone here got dual-head on an intrepid box at all?
[17:15] <mickep> penguin42: dual-head=two screens at the same time? if so, then yes (when I made a presentation)
[17:15] <penguin42> mickep: Mirrored or different?
[17:15] <mickep> "mirrored" (cloned?)
[17:15] <penguin42> yeh - same on the two displays or different?
[17:15] <mickep> same resolution (I have a intel graphics card)
[17:17] <hellcattrav> Ello all
[17:18] <hellcattrav> So my firefox isn't working right now, I can't seem to get it to come up up, I've tried stopping the process at the system moniter in gnome but no luck it just gets added to the list but no firefox window appears
[17:18] <penguin42> hellcattrav: from a command line rename your .mozzila directory - e.g. mv .mozzila .mozzila-broken and try again
[17:19] <hellcattrav> penguin42, whats that do? do you know what the problem could have been?
[17:19] <hellcattrav> and thats in ~?
[17:20] <penguin42> nod
[17:20] <penguin42> .mozilla is where firefox keeps all it's settings - renaming it should let it create a new set from scratch
[17:23] <hellcattrav> Ok
[17:23] <penguin42> is there a forum/mailing list for Intrepid specific stuff?
[17:26] <hellcattrav> Um no
[17:26] <hellcattrav> that didn't do anything
[17:28] <mickep> hellcattrav: do you get any error msg if you start firefox from terminal?
[17:28] <hellcattrav> not sure...let me check
[17:29] <hellcattrav> My terminal is acting up
[17:29] <hellcattrav> I can't type in it :(
[17:29] <hellcattrav> went to control alt F1 but that had to have a display ?
[17:30] <mickep> hellcattrav: you can start a terminal window. Menu -> Accessories -> Terminal
[17:30] <hellcattrav> right
[17:30] <hellcattrav> did that
[17:31] <hellcattrav> but I can't type in it
[17:31] <mickep> why not?
[17:31] <hellcattrav> theres a grey border about where you type in it
[17:31] <hellcattrav> and now thats not even coming up
[17:32] <hellcattrav> says starting terminal at the bottom the window browser..then nowt
[17:37] <DaskreecH> Hiya
[17:37] <DaskreecH> is ibex shipping with Ekiga?
[17:37] <DaskreecH> FliesLikeABrick: May want to get that checked out
[17:37] <penguin42> seems to have ekiga
[17:38] <FliesLikeABrick> what DaskreecH
[17:38] <FliesLikeABrick> ?
[17:38] <danbh_intrepid> DaskreecH: check packages.ubuntu.com
[17:42] <DaskreecH> FliesLikeABrick: Flying like a brick
[17:43] <DaskreecH> danbh_intrepid: No I meant will it be in the default install
[17:44] <ethana2> I wonder how quickly that topic will be updated when it /is/...
[17:44] <mickep> DaskreecH: it was installed when I installed the alpha5. (it has been installed by default in 8.4 iirc)
[17:44]  * ethana2 sits and waits patiently
[17:44] <DaskreecH> ah ok
[17:44] <DaskreecH> ethana2: what's up with the beta?
[17:44] <ethana2> i'm happy to hear about intel's change to their driver that got into 2.6.27, makes things a lot less scary
[17:44] <ethana2> what?
[17:44] <DaskreecH> The intel bug?
[17:44] <ethana2> yeah
[17:45] <DaskreecH> Yeah that's a rough one. So the beta may not come out today at all?
[17:45] <ethana2> Oh, I don't know
[17:45] <ethana2> This is just where I come to wait until its out and I start my torrents...
[17:45] <ethana2> open my bottle of champaigne, you know
[17:45] <ethana2> clang pots and pans
[17:46] <mickep> url to that intel bug? (I got some problems with wlan disconnecting, could that be connected to this?)
[17:46] <ethana2> if you think that's bad you should see how confused people are when i'm shooting off fireworks on halloween
[17:46] <ethana2> it's more serious than that, mickep
[17:46] <ethana2> temporarily bricked ethernet adapters
[17:46] <ethana2> http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/10/1/368
[17:46] <danbh_intrepid> ethana2: was it temporary?
[17:47] <ethana2> you have to reset registers if you get hit by the bug
[17:47] <ethana2> before your hardware will work again
[17:48] <danbh_intrepid> yea, I see, I read the link too
[17:48] <mickep> ethana2: thanks for the link. That looks like a bigger problem.
[17:48] <ethana2> yep.
[17:50] <DaskreecH> So  it's no longer permanent ?
[17:50] <ethana2> it's not /hardware/ damage per sé
[17:50] <DaskreecH> well permanent enough for most people
[17:50] <ethana2> it's more like firmware damage
[18:08] <ethana2> ...anyone else here using ubuntu netbook components on their laptops or desktops?
[18:08] <Nece228> why still theres no beta release
[18:08] <ethana2> window-picker-applet is the best applet for the purpose i've ever seen, barring none
[18:09] <ethana2> Nece228: it's more important to do it right than do it fast
[18:09] <ethana2> in general, when a date is given, add one day
[18:09] <Nece228> i cant wait, i want to see is there a new look
[18:10] <ethana2> I -hope- so
[18:10] <ethana2> but if there's not, you can retheme it, as always
[18:10] <Nece228> i heard that kubuntu 8.10 will boot after few seconds
[18:10] <ethana2> I use suspend, so i'm used to like 4 seconds from lid open to desktop
[18:10]  * ethana2 hugs his ubuntu dell
[18:11] <ethana2> getting another one for my mom sooon
[18:11] <Nece228> *after login kubuntu 8.10 should boot in few seconds
[18:11] <danbh_intrepid> Nece228: that sucks, you would want it to boot right away  : P
[18:12] <DanaG> My parents are too stubborn to switch from Windows XP.
[18:12] <ethana2> i converted my whole family except my older sister
[18:12] <s0u][ight> when will the beta version be out?
[18:12] <danbh_intrepid> DanaG: O M  G     O M G, mine are the same way
[18:12] <ethana2> and i'm exposing people left and right
[18:13] <Nece228> danbh_intrepid: so kde 4.1 will not boot in few seconds? but they gived a promise!
[18:14] <danbh_intrepid> DanaG: I cant even get them to use FF.  When IE7 came out, my dad came over to me and said, hey look at these tab things, arent they cool?  /me yeah, they were 5 years ago....
[18:23] <s0u][ight> no one knowing when the beta will be released?
[18:25] <DanaG> Grr... stupid compiz showmouse plugin..... doesn't reload settings until like 30 seconds after I change a setting.
[18:25] <djbender> s0u][ight, today
[18:26] <s0u][ight> :)
[18:26] <s0u][ight> satisfying :P
[18:36] <SebNaitsabes> when is the beta out
[18:36] <SebNaitsabes> I thought that was today?
[18:38] <melkart> maybe they wait for kde 4.1.2 to be released?
[18:38] <melkart> (should be today, too, but hasnt happened yet)
[18:39] <melkart> (originally should have been even october 1st, but ..)
[18:40] <SebNaitsabes> yeah I read it was meant to have been today
[18:40] <SebNaitsabes> I am wating to upgrade :D
[18:40] <SebNaitsabes> I heard Alpha 6 is pretty good to in fact,  with the weater thing being broken
[18:47] <joebob777as7> anyone know when the e1000 kernel fix will be pushed to updates?
[18:48] <rski> is lspci giving you a bad sign? :P
[18:49] <joebob777as7> not yet...
[18:50] <CarlFK> I plug in a usb drive formated vfat - it gets mounted such that the 'user' has rw privs.  /dev/sdc1 on /media/WD Passport type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=hal,shortname=mixed,uid=1000,utf8,umask=077,flush)
[18:50] <CarlFK> I unmount, mke2fs, unplug, plug - it gets mousted, but user doesn't have write: /dev/sdc1 on /media/disk type ext2 (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=hal)
[18:51] <CarlFK> touch: cannot touch `/media/disk/x': Permission denied
[18:51] <CarlFK> bug?
[19:13] <maxb> I find the ath5k driver nonfunctional with my hardware. I've filed a bug with the tag regression-potential. Is there anything more I should be doing to make sure the right people are visual of the potential regression?
[19:28] <danbh_intrepid> bug 259157
[19:28] <danbh_intrepid> probably just a dupe of that one, maxb
[19:30] <maxb> It's not terribly clear whether that applies to the old or new atheros driver. And I couldn't get the driver to work without networkmanager, either
[19:32] <platius> maxb I have AR2413 Atheros, ath5k is loaded and I am on wireless 8.10 a6
[19:32] <danbh_intrepid> well, it is clearer than you make it out to be.  The point is that the atheros drivers are buggy.  NM had some extra code to work around/fix the bugs.  The bug report is asking, should that code be left in there?  or should the bugged drivers be fixed.  In the mean time, the code has been removed, and as such, the bugs are there
[19:32] <maxb> Hmm, mine's AR2511
[19:33] <platius> maxb my setup took no input from me
[19:33] <maxb> danbh_intrepid: Yes, but *which* atheros drivers are buggy? ath_pci? ath5k? both?
[19:50] <jStefan> topic might need an update?
[19:50] <jStefan> how long ago where the beta ISOs put in place, my torrents are not moving :S
[19:55] <bruce89> at 19:13 UT+1
[19:55] <bruce89> jStefan: ^
[19:56] <jStefan> bruce89, what's UT+1 atm ?
[19:56] <bruce89> 19:56
[19:56] <jStefan> thanks
[19:57] <jStefan> one of the torrents started moving :D
[19:57] <jStefan> ETA 1 day :/
[19:58] <bruce89> you'd probably be better with an obscure mirror
[19:58] <jStefan> nah, i always use the torrents, i feel i'm giving more back
[19:59] <bruce89> literally
[19:59] <jStefan> it justs takes a few minutes before it actually "starts" working
[19:59]  * bruce89 ought to start downloading too
[20:03] <danbh_intrepid> is the beta out?
[20:03] <danbh_intrepid> !schedule
[20:04] <danbh_intrepid> well, I guess the page is up...
[20:05] <jStefan> danbh_intrepid, http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/beta
[20:05] <danbh_intrepid> yeah, thats the page I saw
[20:06] <melkart> http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/8.10/
[20:09] <maxb> Oh. No fglrx :-(
[20:10] <FFForever> i know the upgrade will be out soon but i was wondering what improvments will be made for my server?
[20:10] <FFForever> compared to the current version
[20:10] <maxb> Unless the open source driver has come forward hugely since Hardy, looks like I have to choose between Intrepid or the ability to play DVDs :-/
[20:11] <FFForever> dvds for the win!
[20:11] <jStefan> for a server i would use LTS releases, unless in need of new functionality
[20:11] <FFForever> jStefan right now its running 8.04
[20:11] <FFForever> (it was upgraded from 6.10 (desktop) -> 7.04 -> 7.10 -> 8.04)
[20:12] <jStefan> FFForever, what is it mainly used for?
[20:12] <FFForever> file server
[20:13] <FFForever> but i am more worried about security..., won't the newer versions bring better security?
[20:13] <jStefan> there are some new samba features, but i dont think file sharing is going to change dramatically any time soon
[20:14] <FFForever> whats new in samba (we use samba A LOT!)
[20:14] <jStefan> FFForever, there is something on the notes here: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/beta
[20:15] <jStefan> oh oh, i just spotted a problem on the web, who do i poke?
[20:15] <FFForever> _NiC :)
[20:16] <PriceChild> jStefan: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website
[20:16] <void^> as long as you use a supported release you get security updates
[20:16] <jStefan> thanks PriceChild
[20:17] <kulight> anybody got updates since the beta released ?
[20:17] <FFForever> how does the encrypted network transport work?
[20:17] <alecjw> hey, anyone else having issues with ALSA?
[20:17] <bruce89> I see they are being very careful to attribute improvements in the notes there
[20:17] <bruce89> kulight: http://www.mail-archive.com/intrepid-changes@lists.ubuntu.com/
[20:17] <FFForever> does mr.shuttleworth every come in here?
[20:18] <alecjw> anyone?
[20:19] <kulight> bruce89: not what i meant... the beta is released but i get no updates through update manager
[20:19] <PriceChild> FFForever: I think he sticks to development.
[20:20] <bruce89> kulight: they have a freeze on I think
[20:20] <FFForever> what does he actually do for ubuntu besides provide the financial support?
[20:20] <bruce89> tells people what to do, which they ignore
[20:20] <FFForever> :-/
[20:20] <PriceChild> FFForever: He owns and runs canonical, he's an ubuntu developer.
[20:21] <FFForever> he can code?
[20:21] <PriceChild> FFForever: he was (is?)  a debian developer
[20:21] <alecjw> hey look its pricechild
[20:21] <alecjw> i remember you
[20:21] <PriceChild> Allo alecjw.
[20:21] <kulight> no there are links to beta: http://releases.ubuntu.com/releases/8.10/
[20:22] <FFForever> never knew that...
[20:22] <alecjw> and on cdimage.u.c, theres the amd64 dvd
[20:23] <alecjw> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/intrepid/beta/
[20:23] <jStefan> kulight, usually if you've been running intrepid since before the release you will not see much changes during the release of the beta ISO. Most packages are locked from changes, you might see some updates tomorrow.
[20:23] <kulight> its just on from the last hpour or so
[20:24] <kulight> i hoped there will be cose of some anoying bugs i get
[20:25] <kulight> and i got almost no updates the last few days
[20:25] <PriceChild> kulight: have you filed the bugs on launchpad?
[20:27] <kulight> yes i did that long time ago
[20:27] <PriceChild> kulight: linky?
[20:28] <kulight> linky? didnt grt that
[20:28] <kulight> get
[20:28] <PolitikerNEU> Hello everyone, does anybody know how to sync kde-pim data of kontact (especially emails and the calender) between kubuntu 8.10 (and, if possible, with kubuntu 8.04 too)?
[20:28] <PriceChild> kulight: have you got a link to the bug(s)?
[20:29] <kulight> oh yes just a sec
[20:30] <kulight> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/263412
[20:30] <kulight> and this one say fix released but it s still there: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/consolekit/+bug/250506
[20:35] <jStefan> bug 277235
[20:37] <mikedep333> hello, could somebody explain what's the difference between the desktop CD and the live DVD?
[20:37] <mikedep333> I thought I heard something about OEM stuff
[20:37] <mikedep333> but that wouldn't explain the 4 GB size
[20:38] <mikedep333> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/8.10/beta/
[20:38] <kulight> it has alot more package's on it so u wouldn't have to have Internet
[20:40] <mikedep333> oh, cool
[20:40] <mikedep333> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2007-October/126343.html
[20:40] <mikedep333> I just found this
[20:40] <AtomicSpark> Yes.
[20:40] <AtomicSpark> What he said.
[20:40] <AtomicSpark> I've also noticed that the ALT cd will skip a few packages if your computer is really sow.
[20:40] <AtomicSpark> THen will install them when you update.
[20:40] <mikedep333> but not kubuntu packages on the ubuntu DVD,r right?
[20:40] <AtomicSpark> Hm.
[20:40] <AtomicSpark> They might be.
[20:40] <AtomicSpark> You'd have to switch via tasksel.
[20:41] <mikedep333> tasksel?
[20:41] <jStefan> "is" there a kubuntu dvd ?
[20:41] <AtomicSpark> run it.
[20:41] <mikedep333> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/intrepid/beta/
[20:41] <mikedep333> yes
[20:41] <AtomicSpark> it is the package setup during the install. you can install stuff that way and it will ask you questions.
[20:41] <AtomicSpark> also you can run dpkg-reconfigure or something.
[20:41] <AtomicSpark> :P
[20:41] <mikedep333> I see
[20:42] <mikedep333> yeah, I think I remember that from when I did an alternate install on my Eee
[20:42] <AtomicSpark> Yeah. See on a server I could run tasksel to install LAMP so I don't have to manually cnofigure it.
[20:42] <AtomicSpark> But I would start with the kbuntu cd if you want kde. Switching can/will be messy. :P
[20:42] <mikedep333> I need to learn to use the command line apt stuff better
[20:43] <AtomicSpark> Yes. You do.
[20:43] <mikedep333> I already installed kde on top of ubuntu on my laptop and desktop
[20:43] <mikedep333> it went ok
[20:43] <mikedep333> the menus don't seem too cluttered up
[20:43] <AtomicSpark> apt-get is the best way to update your systed. don't even have to log in!
[20:43] <AtomicSpark> just switch to a tty, and update your machine. :P
[20:43] <mikedep333> I know about apt-get update
[20:43] <mikedep333> apt-get upgrade
[20:43] <void^> you have to log in on a tty.
[20:44] <AtomicSpark> Well yes.
[20:44] <AtomicSpark> But I mean don't have to log into a GUI. Wait for the desktop to load.
[20:44] <void^> unless you use init=/bin/sh or some such wicked thing.
[20:44] <mikedep333> well
[20:44] <jStefan> i still like apt for dist-upgrades, most users consider it evil
[20:44] <AtomicSpark> apt is by far not evil.
[20:44] <mikedep333> when you have a quad core processor and a RAID0 array, it doesn't take too long for the desktop to load
[20:45] <AtomicSpark> when your company owner buys cheap computers it does. ;)
[20:45] <mikedep333> actually
[20:45] <mikedep333> I got my processor for $100 USD
[20:45] <mikedep333> and the hard drives for like $50 each
[20:45] <Allah> what proc is that?
[20:45] <mikedep333> phenom 9600
[20:45] <mikedep333> x4
[20:45] <Allah> ah.
[20:45] <AtomicSpark> when your company owner doesn't know anything and buys cheap computers from a "business solutions" company.
[20:46] <mikedep333> it was on an amazing sale
[20:46] <AtomicSpark> Its slow.
[20:46] <AtomicSpark> :P
[20:46] <mikedep333> lol
[20:46] <jStefan> i got an intel e8400 recently, i think its msrp is good
[20:46] <mikedep333> OMG yes
[20:46] <mikedep333> I can move to canada now
[20:46] <mikedep333> http://www.newegg.ca/
[20:46] <Allah> i rathere like my new laptop - it has an intel core 2 duo 2.4Ghz proc
[20:46] <Allah> s/rathere/rather
[20:46] <jStefan> that's nice for a lappy
[20:46] <Allah> and ... it runs windows vista.
[20:47] <mikedep333> yeah, very good
[20:47] <Allah> yeah, it has 3GB of ram.
[20:47] <jStefan> Allah, that part is not...
[20:47] <bruce89> Allah: barely?
[20:47] <mikedep333> my laptop came with vista
[20:47] <Allah> i don't particularly mind vista; i rather like it's DEP/ASLR protection schemes.
[20:47] <jStefan> i dont hate windows, but i do hate vista :/
[20:47] <mikedep333> it was quite reasonable with intel cache and 3 GB ram
[20:47] <Allah> i run ubuntu on my virtualbox.
[20:47] <jemark> mine came with ubuntu 7.10 ;)
[20:47] <bruce89> is it really 3 GB, or do they just not count the 1 that Windows can't be arsed with
[20:48] <bruce89> jemark: as did mine
[20:48] <AtomicSpark> Its not windows.
[20:48] <AtomicSpark> Its 32 bit.
[20:48] <jemark> :) bruce89
[20:48] <mikedep333> my laptop seriously came with 3 GB of ram
[20:48] <bruce89> 32 would be up to 4GB surely
[20:48] <AtomicSpark> My laptop came with 2.
[20:48]  * AtomicSpark shrugs.
[20:48] <Allah> i may get ibex on it, when it's released.
[20:48] <jStefan> if you are lucky you can get 3.5gb detected on 32bit windows
[20:48] <AtomicSpark> bruce89: there is a work around yes.
[20:48]  * bruce89 slums it with 1
[20:48] <Scunizi> Will the latest release of Gimp 2.6 be incorporated into Intrepid?
[20:48] <jemark> bruce89: i have 1Gb Ram in my laptop... enough for Ubuntu Linux :)
[20:48] <mikedep333> http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/asus-f8sn-d1-gaming/4505-3121_7-32909970.html
[20:49] <AtomicSpark> Scunizi: no
[20:49] <Allah> well, core 2 duo is a 64bit proc.
[20:49] <jStefan> imho, there should have never been a 32bit vista, only 64bit
[20:49] <mikedep333> Scunzi: use getdeb
[20:49] <bruce89> jemark: indeed
[20:49] <Scunizi> AtomicSpark: to bad.. looks nice.
[20:49] <mikedep333> or hope it gets in backports
[20:49] <bruce89> Scunizi: or better, wait until I PPA it
[20:49] <AtomicSpark> Scunizi: well. it might. depends how many bugs are in it. :P
[20:49] <bruce89> if Debian bother
[20:49] <AtomicSpark> No wait.
[20:49] <Scunizi> bruce89: I like that!
[20:49] <AtomicSpark> Scunizi: ibex is frozen. so. no go.
[20:49] <AtomicSpark> :P
[20:49] <mikedep333> yeah, beta freeze
[20:49] <mikedep333> fortunately VLC .9.2 and then VLC .9.3 got in
[20:49] <Scunizi> AtomicSpark: ah.. didn't realize it was in beta freeze..
[20:50] <AtomicSpark> Its been forzen for a month or so.
[20:50] <jemark> bruce89: i will wait until the 8.10 is final... my current hardy is runnung smooth
[20:50] <AtomicSpark> They freeze before the alpha or something. "feature freeze"
[20:50] <Scunizi> AtomicSpark: shows you how much I pay attention to Alpha-Beta stuff  :)
[20:50] <mikedep333> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidReleaseSchedule
[20:50] <AtomicSpark> Yes.
[20:50] <mikedep333> beta freeze since the 25th
[20:50] <bruce89> you have to go through some ridiculous process to pass it
[20:50] <AtomicSpark> Those terms mean nothing anymore.
[20:50] <AtomicSpark> Lol.
[20:50] <bruce89> diffstat and diff of NEWS for starters
[20:50] <Scunizi> true
[20:50] <AtomicSpark> Alpha is supposed to be in house. Beta to BETA TESTERS.
[20:50] <AtomicSpark> :p
[20:50] <AtomicSpark> But gmail is beta so.
[20:51] <AtomicSpark> Who knows!
[20:51] <mikedep333> not with open source
[20:51] <Scunizi> been that way with google forever.. it's all beta
[20:51] <mikedep333> with open source, every revision is available
[20:51] <jStefan> google search is beta :P
[20:51] <bruce89> Scunizi: means they can't be blamed
[20:51] <jStefan> just kidding
[20:51] <bruce89> I suspect GIMP will be in, it's too big to miss
[20:52] <bruce89> mind you, AbiWord was stuck in 2.4.x for Hardy
[20:52] <jemark> jStefan: gmail is...
[20:52] <jStefan> yep
[20:52] <Scunizi> bruce89: yea.. and the new engine for gimp looks like they are making the right steps to get 16 bit paths.. etc.
[20:52] <jStefan> mostly everything except the search
[20:52] <bruce89> Scunizi: lovely stuff for 2.8 mehopes
[20:52] <kulight> what about OO ?
[20:52] <jemark> jStefan: it's all about the google adds
[20:52] <bruce89> kulight: might be too late
[20:53] <Scunizi> bruce89: yes.. and a little different UI too.. more mainstream.. although I'm getting use to Gimp as it is now..
[20:53] <jStefan> OO 3.0 will be releaed in 2 weeks, no?
[20:53] <kulight> i hope not
[20:53] <bruce89> Scunizi: compiz is broken however
[20:53] <bruce89> but I haven't used it for ages
[20:53] <Scunizi> bruce89: with gimp? or in intrepid? or using the combination of the two?
[20:54] <bruce89> GIMP uses utility windows, only Metacity supports them properly
[20:55] <Scunizi> bruce89: I was just reading http://www.linuxhaxor.net/2008/10/01/in-gimp-we-trust/ and got the gist that the UI had changed adn maybe the utility window(s) have gone..
[20:55] <bruce89> Scunizi: that's a shame
[20:56] <Scunizi> bruce89: I could be wrong... cheer up
[20:56] <bruce89> impossible, I'm afraid
[20:57] <jStefan> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/OOoRelease30#OOo_3.0_Final
[20:57] <jStefan> OOo = October 14th?
[20:58] <kulight> so it might be in ??
[20:58] <jStefan> dont think so, probably backported later
[20:59] <bruce89> Scunizi: no mention in the ChangeLog
[20:59] <kulight> well... good enough for me
[20:59] <jStefan> dont take my word for it
[21:00] <bruce89> I doubt they would backport something that big
[21:00] <kulight> i wouldnt come after u if it dosent :-D
[21:00] <jStefan> my guess is that if they wanted it in, they would be using the RCs already
[21:00] <kulight> they cant miss something that important
[21:01] <bruce89> we'll see
[21:01] <kulight> but who knows
[21:01] <jStefan> things need to be tested, it was probably to late in the development cycle
[21:01] <jStefan> they "did" take the risk with firefox
[21:02] <bruce89> jStefan: they get paid to
[21:02] <kulight> and it turn out pretty well
[21:02] <bruce89> not really
[21:02] <AnRkey> when is the beta out?
[21:02] <bruce89> now
[21:02] <jStefan> AnRkey, 2 hours ago ;)
[21:03] <bruce89> or to be precise 1.5 hours agi
[21:03] <jStefan> btw, topic needs an update
[21:03] <jemark> hehe
[21:04] <kulight> well have a good evening/morning/night im going to get a beer at the bar :-D
[21:07] <AnRkey> jStefan, thanks
[21:07] <AnRkey> yes, the freakin topic needs to be updated!
[21:07] <AnRkey> :P
[21:08] <AnRkey> gonna give the beta a whirl on my laptop
[21:09] <djbender> haha where's a channel operator when you need one
[21:11] <s0u][ight> the day is allmost over and beta isn't released yet :|
[21:11] <djbender> its out
[21:11] <AnRkey> where is the landing page?
[21:11] <djbender> the topic hasn't been updated
[21:12] <AnRkey> ahhh >> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/beta
[21:14] <`Matir> why are people always so impatient for the beta?  :-P
[21:15] <dmh65> downloading ibex now, whats it like?
[21:15] <djbender> magical
[21:15] <dmh65> :)
[21:15] <dmh65> :)
[21:15] <tonyyarusso> No announcement e-mail yet.
[21:15] <dmh65> pooey brown again?
[21:16] <dmh65> hardy works so well its boring though
[21:17] <dmh65> just spent the day with suse 10.3 and 11.0, man suse has gone downhill
[21:17] <bruce89> `Matir: people think beta is suddenly a lot better
[21:17] <djbender> its magic bruce! slap the beta on it and its magically 10000000x better!
[21:18] <s0u][ight> mattik, normally i upgrade about alpha 5 but this release alpha 5 changed kernel so i was a bit disapointed ;)
[21:19] <bruce89> when Hardy beta was on the go, an update screwed libc6
[21:19] <jemark> im not going to put this beta on my production pc
[21:19] <s0u][ight> :( only 100kb/s
[21:19] <debfx> is there a way to debug an early kernel excpetion (#263543)?
[21:19] <bruce89> but that's not usually the case
[21:20] <s0u][ight> over here it is :(
[21:20] <s0u][ight> bruce89, i lost my laptop at alpha 5 of hardy
[21:20] <jemark> oops s0u][ight
[21:20] <s0u][ight> when i got another intrepid was released ;)
[21:21] <s0u][ight> jemark, ?
[21:21] <bruce89> I've never heard of software making hardware disappear
[21:21] <s0u][ight> bruce89, my father broke my laptop
[21:21] <djbender> how do you upgrade to beta from alpha-6 from Update Manager?
[21:21] <jemark> s0u][ight: never mind
[21:22] <bruce89> djbender: you don't
[21:22] <maxb> Yes, you do
[21:22] <djbender> ...?
[21:22] <bruce89> beta is just a name given to the archive at a speific time
[21:22] <maxb> djbender: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/beta includes the instructions
[21:22] <djbender> thanks
[21:22] <platius> djbender; sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[21:23] <maxb> platius: no
[21:23] <bruce89> dist?
[21:23] <maxb> oh, ignore me
[21:23] <PolitikerNEU> is there any change that libtool will work on some day?
[21:23] <maxb> Apologies, I wasn't reading carefully and thought it was a hardy -> intrepid question
[21:23] <s0u][ight> my connection of regular speed of 700kb/s is now only 100kb/s :|
[21:23] <bruce89> do-release-upgrade
[21:24] <jStefan> bruce89, nope, but the LHC can make hardware disappear xD
[21:24] <bruce89> itself for instance
[21:24] <s0u][ight> i wonder when there will be some kind of driver for intel's turbo memory
[21:24] <djbender> also, is there a way to tell what release you have currently installed? (alpha-6 or beta)
[21:25] <jStefan> djbender, if update-manager says you have all updates installed, you should be on the beta
[21:25] <s0u][ight> there it goes ;) it speeded up to 366kb/s ;)
[21:25] <jStefan> yay, someone who can update the topic :D
[21:25] <s0u][ight> but anyway
[21:26] <s0u][ight> i can continue a download after it is stopped right with wget?
[21:26] <jStefan> thanks
[21:26] <bruce89> wget -c somethign
[21:26] <s0u][ight> bruce89, yeah i know ;)
[21:26] <s0u][ight> tn
[21:26] <djbender> interesting... i haven't updated my computer until now, and it only updated my update-manager and no other packages, if i've been installing daily updates for the last week every day, do i already have beta? lol
[21:26] <s0u][ight> tnx just wanted to be sure
[21:26] <s0u][ight> tonyyarusso, i thought you would kick me :P
[21:26] <tonyyarusso> hehe, not this time at least :)
[21:27] <dude_1> Hi
[21:27] <bruce89> djbender: there is no such thing as the beta
[21:27] <s0u][ight> :| never been kicked before anyway (not seriously) just for jokes :D
[21:27] <bruce89> you are in fact newer than the beta
[21:27] <djbender> bruce89, i know what you are saying, do you know what i mean at least?
[21:28] <platius> djbender; if your alpha6 is current on updates you have the beta, sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade will verify
[21:28] <djbender> platius, ok thanks :D
[21:28] <tonyyarusso> djbender: the biggest thing about things like "the beta" is successfully building a CD image and tweaking the installer components, so yes, most of the actual packages will be unchanged from yesterday (or even last week).
[21:28] <djbender> tonyyarusso, that makes sense thanks all
[21:28] <dude_1> i installed intrepid a few days ago (alpha 6). Is it normal that there are no new updatet software packages available? apt-get update && apt-get upgrade does nothing
[21:28] <jStefan> ideally they should remain unchanged since beta freeze, but that would be in a perfect world
[21:29] <bruce89> dude_1: yes
[21:29] <bruce89> I'll try to explain
[21:29] <dude_1> thx:)
[21:32] <tonyyarusso> Say, are the torrents moving at all yet?
[21:32] <bruce89> Intrepid is a rolling release sort of
[21:32] <dude_1> strange thing is that i see new package versions passing on launchpad
[21:32] <bruce89> loads of packages updated until the release date, then none
[21:33] <s0u][ight> it installs in a virtual envoirenment right?
[21:33] <jStefan> tonyyarusso, slowly
[21:33] <bruce89> dude_1: they aren't being propegated
[21:33]  * tonyyarusso is having trouble even downloading the .torrent file
[21:34] <jStefan> tonyyarusso, from the main mirror?
[21:34] <dude_1> why is that?
[21:34] <tonyyarusso> jStefan: main and Taiwan so far
[21:34] <jStefan> tonyyarusso, i have a small apache box, i could put the .torrent file online
[21:34] <s0u][ight> no one verified my statement
[21:35] <tonyyarusso> There we go - Sweden di the trick.  Thanks though jStefan
[21:35] <jStefan> tonyyarusso, now to find peers/seeds ;)
[21:35] <s0u][ight> :( tomorrow school i will have to wait till i touch intrepid
[21:36] <bruce89> S0u[]ight: I don't knwo
[21:36] <jStefan> atm i'm uploading a lot more than my download rate
[21:37] <s0u][ight> bruce89, not familiar to irc chats?
[21:37] <s0u][ight> try typing s0 and then pressing tab ;)
[21:37] <melkart> i couldnt start kubuntu beta at all... neither on virtual box nor on real system. ubuntu worked fine, though
[21:37] <bruce89> I know, Empathy bug
[21:37] <bruce89> doesn't like non letters it appears
[21:38] <s0u][ight> melkart, tnx for verification
[21:38] <melkart> sorry...
[21:38] <s0u][ight> i think there are a lot of people downloading
[21:38] <s0u][ight> my dlspeed decreased again :'(
[21:38] <s0u][ight> eta 40 min :|
[21:39] <jStefan> how many of you are using the torrent ?
[21:39] <bruce89> me
[21:39]  * tonyyarusso 
[21:39] <s0u][ight> i'm downloading through http
[21:39] <bruce89> my ISP throttles
[21:39] <jStefan> my torrent just got a boost in speed
[21:40] <tonyyarusso> Mine doesn't seem to be connecting - maybe this port is blocked.
[21:40] <jStefan> tonyyarusso, mine took a while before it did anything
[21:40] <s0u][ight> 140kb/s :|
[21:41] <jStefan> i'm getting 20kb/s DL
[21:41] <jStefan> doing 60kb/s UL, my limit
[21:42] <s0u][ight> jStefan, i get a boost again :D
[21:43] <s0u][ight> there is a number with one 3 and two 0's :D
[21:43] <bruce89> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=554767
[21:43] <jStefan> my line's not that fast :S
[21:43] <s0u][ight> the average download speed is very unstable :|
[21:43] <jStefan> this is roughly a 2mbps line
[21:44] <s0u][ight> sometimes i have 700kb/s speeds
[21:44] <jStefan> bruce89, you sure it's the number not the brackets?
[21:44] <bruce89> jStefan: yup
[21:45] <s0u][ight> did my nick bring up a bug? :s
[21:45] <bruce89> I can't do ali????
[21:45] <jStefan> :)
[21:45] <s0u][ight> i'm an exploit myself :P
[21:45] <jStefan> bruce89, you cant do your own
[21:46] <bruce89> I can actually
[21:46] <s0u][ight> wow 400 :|
[21:46] <jStefan> but it has numbers?
[21:46] <bruce89> I'm not sure what it is exactly
[21:46] <s0u][ight> what version of compiz is incuded
[21:46] <jStefan> what was it...
[21:46] <jStefan> !compiz intrepid
[21:47] <s0u][ight> .7.8?
[21:47] <bruce89> !compiz
[21:47] <jStefan> there was a way to search packages in a specific release
[21:47] <jussi01> !info compiz
[21:47] <s0u][ight> what about nvidia drivers?
[21:47] <bruce89> !nvidia-glx
[21:47] <jussi01> jStefan: it defaults to intrepid in here
[21:47] <bruce89> !info nvidia-glx
[21:47] <s0u][ight> !nvidia
[21:47] <jussi01> jStefan: anywhere else
[21:48] <jussi01> !info compiz hardy
[21:48] <jStefan> and if i wanted to be specific? !info <package> <release>   ?
[21:48] <jStefan> thanks
[21:48] <jussi01> no probs :)
[21:48] <bruce89> !info nvidia-glx-173
[21:48] <jStefan> i just had forgotten :P
[21:48] <bruce89> !help
[21:48] <s0u][ight> this is supybot right?
[21:48] <jussi01> yeah
[21:49] <s0u][ight> great python script
[21:49] <jussi01> anymore bot questions you can direct at me in #ubuntu-bots
[21:49] <jussi01> :)
[21:49] <s0u][ight> jussi01, i have a friend who is coding an ai bot ;)
[21:50] <s0u][ight> joining conv's keeping his system up to date
[21:50] <s0u][ight> synching with his phone
[21:50] <s0u][ight> and much more :|
[21:52] <tonyyarusso> jStefan: with ubotu you mean, or elsewhere?
[21:53] <jStefan> tonyyarusso, i used to know how to use the !info command with ubotu, just forgot completly
[21:53] <jaxdahl2> !info nvidia-glx-177
[21:53] <jStefan> tonyyarusso, but it was another ubotu back then
[21:53] <s0u][ight> !info nvidia-glx-169.12
[21:53] <s0u][ight> that driver i'm using now
[21:54] <s0u][ight> !info nvidia-glx-170
[21:54] <bruce89> !info nvidia-glx-169
[21:54] <s0u][ight> !info nvidia-glx-171
[21:54] <s0u][ight> never mind i'll figure out something ;)
[21:54] <s0u][ight> 20 minutes left for download to end
[21:55] <jStefan> this is what you are looking for:
[21:55] <jStefan> http://packages.ubuntu.com/intrepid/nvidia-glx
[21:55] <jStefan> 71, 96, 173, 177
[21:56] <s0u][ight> what are the differences between those drivers?
[21:57] <jStefan> the cards they support
[21:57] <mnemoc> *G*
[21:57] <s0u][ight> i have a geforce 8600m GT
[22:00] <jStefan> for example for cards like GeForce3 and older the 71 driver is required
[22:00] <jStefan> s/3/2/
[22:00] <schmidtm> i use the 177 for the 8600m GT
[22:01] <s0u][ight> schmidtm, are you satisfied about your performance?
[22:02] <schmidtm> could be better on kde4 but on gnome it works well
[22:03] <negge> seems like there are no updates for me, does that mean my system has alreday been gradually updated to the beta?
[22:03] <jStefan> negge, most likely
[22:11] <s0u][ight> 3 minutes remaining ;)
[22:13] <s0u][ight> guys i'm off my download is finished and i have to sleep (tomorrow school)
[22:13] <s0u][ight> laterzzz
[22:13] <jStefan> nn
[22:17] <monstro> Hi all
[22:17] <monstro> the Kubuntu 8.10 is live cd?
[22:19] <jStefan> what about it?
[22:19] <bruce89> apt:empathy
[22:19] <bruce89> apt://empathy
[22:23] <Turms> why is 2.6.25 again in the repository?
[22:24] <Turms> i have problems with 2.6.27, but 2.6.26 works flawlessly
[22:24] <bruce89> Turms: http://www.mail-archive.com/intrepid-changes@lists.ubuntu.com/msg07441.html
[22:26] <bruce89> for some reason, non-i386 and AMD64 ports use 2.6.25
[22:27] <Turms> bruce89: ok, thanks
[22:43] <ianliu_88> uhul, downloading beta =D
[22:49] <maxb_> I am deeply confused. Somehow the DPKG::Pre-Install-Pkgs configuration of etckeeper makes the release-upgrader not work
[22:54] <mvo> maxb_: I have seen this issue recently (or was that reported by you)?
[22:54] <Blinkiz> Hmmm.. Intrepid server beta is using around 70 mb of RAM. Hardy server is using around 20 MB. Hmm, why this increase?
[22:54] <seps1816> so ubuntu 8.10 should def be out on oct 30th?
[22:55] <Blinkiz> seps1816, yes
[22:55] <seps1816> good stuff
[22:57] <maxb_> He's gone, but yes, it was me
[22:58] <maxb_> Now attempting to narrow down the cause, without much luck
[22:59] <emma> Will Ubuntu fix X before releasing Intrepid?
[22:59] <seps1816> is it worth upgrading now?
[22:59] <emma> I am concerned that Ubuntu is going to screw a lot of people who use ATI cards.
[23:00] <[Solars]> there is a problem with X and ATI cards ?
[23:00] <emma> What functionality is the new X bringing to a typical user to pay for the regressive disfunctionality that it is bringing a lot of people?
[23:00] <RAOF> [Solars]: Only if you try to use fglrx.
[23:00] <seps1816> me too i have a ATI card that just wont work with ubuntu kinda a bummer
[23:01] <emma> [Solars]:  Yes. There are no drivers for ATI for the new X.
[23:01] <[Solars]> thats diffently a bummer
[23:01] <[Solars]> won't upgrade till that is fixed for sure
[23:01] <RAOF> The open-source drivers will give you at least 2d, and for < HD2xxx should give you 3d.
[23:01] <emma> That's a massive bummer. It's more than a bummer, it's a serious problem.
[23:01] <emma> I'm not being critical of you guysl Please understand. I love you guys and respect all you do.
[23:02] <emma> I'm concerned about the well being of Ubuntu and its ability to grow, attract new users, and keep the old ones.
[23:02] <emma> With all due respect Hardy was not a home run for a lot of people. Intrepid needs to make up for it.
[23:02] <emma> For a lot of people this X is going to be the new pulseaudio.
[23:02] <emma> And people are going to be asking why did they stick an X that is not ready and has no purpose in the new Ubuntu.
[23:03] <RAOF> emma: And the answer will be "Because X is totally ready".
[23:03] <noodlesgc> emma all the releases have some problems and don't always work for everyone
[23:03] <emma> For you.
[23:03] <RAOF> The new X is better in every way.
[23:03] <emma> It's ready for you because you know Linux inside and out.
[23:03] <emma> Since when is Ubuntu for people who know Linux inside and out?
[23:03] <Blinkiz> Am using ATI cards with both hardy and intrepid
[23:04] <RAOF> The fact that your proprietary drivers haven't yet been updated to support the new X server is unfortunate, but really, it's par for the course.
[23:04] <seps1816> emma's got a point tho
[23:04] <emma> For a typical user with an ATI card or a marble mouse roller ball mouse, the new X is just going to screw them and make them wonder why Hardy worked and Intrepid does not. Then they will say, 'bah linux is not worth it' or at least, 'must be a better linux than ubuntu'
[23:04] <emma> and i don't want that.
[23:04] <emma> I want Ubuntu to grow and for each release to make strides over the last.
[23:04] <Blinkiz> emma, What have you got the information that ATI cards will not work with intrepid?
[23:05] <Blinkiz> what = where
[23:05] <seps1816> most people dont know what there doing with ubuntu i been messing around for like a year and i still dont know to much
[23:05] <emma> Blinkiz: I filed a bug and that is the response that ultimately came of it.
[23:05] <Blinkiz> emma, you have a bug number?
[23:05] <emma> yeah let me find it
[23:05] <sjanssen> emma: perhaps you ought to direct your complaints to ATI?
[23:06] <sjanssen> this is a bit of a catch 22, if distros never upgrade to the new X.org, vendors will never have a reason to update their drivers
[23:06] <RAOF> The response would, indeed, be "we have no ability to fix fglrx, and have presented this caveat to you at every opportunity".
[23:07] <emma> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jockey/+bug/275192
[23:07] <emma> the bug ^
[23:08] <emma> RAOF: Ubuntu release devs have chosen to put a new X in Ubuntu. And the purpose of Ubuntu is to be a linux everyone can use. Not just the elite user like yourself.
[23:08] <sjanssen> emma: well, jockey should at least not crash.  Ideally it would tell you that the proprietary drivers are not yet available
[23:09] <emma> When people who had been using Hardy sort of successfully (over looking pulseaudio) with their ATI cards, go to turn on the Cube and their system crashes, I sure hope that they are not told, 'It's your own fault, it's par for the course'. Because that's not in keeping with the purpose of Ubuntu.
[23:09] <RAOF> emma: And for almost everyone the new X provides tangiable benefits.  This "almost everyone" includes many people with ATI cards, in fact.
[23:09] <emma> RAOF: With the new X, the xorg.conf does not do what it used to.
[23:10] <Blinkiz> emma, ATI/AMD has not released drivers for 2.6.27 kernel. I think that's the base problem here. Its gonna be released by the end of october. Catalyst 9.0
[23:10] <[Solars]> so they say
[23:10] <RAOF> emma: No, xorg.conf does exactly what it used to do.
[23:10] <emma> I have a logitech marble mouse, roller ball mouse. Ever since Edgy I have been able to follow the directions to edit my xorg.conf to make it emulate a scroll wheel. Can you tell me why this same code no longer works in the new X and how I should emulate the scrollwheel effect now? Or else tell me why this is not a regression?
[23:11] <emma> RAOF: Listen, I truly truly respect you guys. I love and respect all of you who work on Ubuntu. You pour your hearts out and you are so talented. I don't want to come across as a complainer or a problem user here.
[23:12] <emma> Thing is, I am invested in Ubuntu also. I have a deep loyalty to it. I want it to grow and get more new users, and hold out to the ones who have been using it.
[23:12] <RAOF> emma: I'm not sure how to do that, no.  The settings from Hardy should still work, though.  xorg.conf is still used for configuration.
[23:12] <penguin42> emma: As I understand it X is trying to get better at autodetecting stuff and hence it seems to be treating the xorg.conf a bit different
[23:12] <uffo> hello do intrepid has Asus xonar support by default then i know to crush that stupid Creative x-fi card that do not have compiled simple drivers.
[23:12] <emma> I'm just worried about pushing stuff that is not ready and losing market because of it. I feel that happened a great deal with pulseuadio in hardy and I think it's about to happen with the new X.
[23:13]  * penguin42 spent 5 hours hacking X configs today - I'm not sure that's too good a sign
[23:13] <emma> RAOF: Ever since edgy the xorg.conf has looked the same. Now there is almost nothing in it, and ever since Edgy the same changes to xorg.conf have made my rollerball mouse have the scroll wheel emulation. Now when I put the same thing in there nothing happens.
[23:13] <penguin42> although I guess ubuntu worked for the common case
[23:14] <emma> If people who have never used Ubuntu cannot make the cube because there are no drivers for X they are going to think less of Ubuntu. If people who have been using Ubuntu cannot make normal changes to X that have worked since Breezy they are going to go to some other distro.
[23:14] <penguin42> emma: Remember it still is beta; now if you had to edit the X config before anyway it's just a matter of making sure if there is a new way of doing it that it gets documented
[23:14] <emma> I'm not critical of anyone here. I love the people here. I respect you guys so much and am so thankful but I'm just trying to make a mad expostulation to remember the purpose of Ubuntu.
[23:15] <sjanssen> huh, I hadn't looked at the new xorg.conf.  That is actually very beautiful
[23:15] <emma> penguin42: yes if i can figure it out i will document it myself in the same place I have found the documentation for doing it since Edgy.
[23:15] <penguin42> emma: Is what you get it to do what you would consider 'normal' for that input device?
[23:16] <michelecs> Hi Guys. Is the realtime kernel going to appear again after the Beta, or will it just be excluded from Intrepid?
[23:16] <noodlesgc> michelecs I think the realtime image is already in http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=linux-image-rt&searchon=names&suite=intrepid&section=all
[23:16] <emma> penguin42: marginally.  It still works as a mouse, I just have no scroll wheel effect. Which I have since Edgy.
[23:16] <emma> It's a rollerball.
[23:17] <emma> Here's a picture of it -- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=77005
[23:17] <michelecs> noodlesgc: Actually that one is the 2.6.26, while Intrepid is going to use 2.6.27
[23:17] <penguin42> emma: Hmm I see - the device was designed to emulate a mouse but you are using it to emulate a scrollwheel - neat idea - I can see why an 'auto' detect on something wouldn't do that
[23:17] <DanaG> EmulateWheelButton
[23:18] <DanaG> It'd need an FDI file to do that.
[23:18] <noodlesgc> michelecs ah. But doesn't Hardy use 2.6.24?
[23:18] <emma> And here's the edits which have apparently worked ever since Breezy for making the marble mouse have a scroll wheel effect, which can no longer be used in Intrepid -- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=169423
[23:18] <dmh65> no ati driver yet then!
[23:18] <emma> None.
[23:19] <dmh65> no bother
[23:19] <emma> What great advantage is coming from putting a new X in? Could someone please do a cost benefit analysis on this choice?
[23:19] <sjanssen> emma: I think you might be able to fix this with xmodmap
[23:19] <penguin42> emma: My guess is it's a trade off with fixing other problems
[23:19] <michelecs> Yes, noodlesgc... it just sounds strange... Maybe there is some serious problem with real time 2.6.27... I just wonder, since I'm writing an article about this Beta.
[23:19] <RAOF> Although, once again, the open source ATI drivers both work and support 3d for < HD2xxx cards.
[23:19] <emma> perhaps if you wait until Ubuntu+2 to put the new X in you will not have these problems.
[23:20] <dmh65> dont like that hard drive partition graphic, its confusing
[23:20] <dmh65> I have a ati hd2400 card :)
[23:20] <noodlesgc> michelecs it is a bit strange. does the 2.6.27 realtime even exist?
[23:20] <emma> dmh65: worked in Hardy right?
[23:21] <dmh65> what?
[23:21] <dmh65> the driver
[23:21] <emma> did your ati work in Hardy?
[23:21] <dmh65> sure it was offered to me everytime
[23:21] <emma> Yeah.
[23:21] <emma> so i say this is a regression.
[23:21] <noodlesgc> hey is dri2 used in intrepid?
[23:21] <dmh65> resolution is ok now but not tried 3d stuff etc
[23:22] <dmh65> ah, they have probably just not enabled something
[23:22] <Blinkiz> emma, I updated #275192 with a comment :)
[23:22] <danbh_intrepid> hot-plug is the keyword for keyboard config, I think...
[23:22] <emma> cool :)
[23:23] <RAOF> noodlesgc: No.  It's not ready.
[23:23] <noodlesgc> RAOF too bad. thanks.
[23:24] <sjanssen> emma: so you tried just dropping the "InputDevice" section in your xorg.conf and it didn't work?
[23:24]  * penguin42 submits bug 277312 'xorg.conf missing pointer to what changed'
[23:24]  * penguin42 throws ubottu a biccy
[23:25] <d4t4min3r> did the beta ever come out
[23:25] <d4t4min3r> or is it still alpha
[23:26] <noodlesgc> d4t4min3r beta is out
[23:27] <d4t4min3r> did the intel fix make it in the beta
[23:28] <penguin42> someone earlier said it wouldn't
[23:28] <DanaG> The laptop I'll be getting relatively soon (like, within 1 or 2 months) will have an HD3650.
[23:28] <DanaG> Does that at least do 2D with the open-source driver for now?
[23:29] <dmh65> should be fine
[23:30] <dmh65> thanks for Ibex, be back tomorrow, sort the ati driver out will you in the mean time, geez :)
[23:33] <sivel27> hello all
[23:33] <sivel27> im having a major problem with the gdm login screen...... i cant login, not because of username/pass error, but it simply says login failed
[23:33] <sivel27> ?
[23:34] <emma> I would like to request that someone take an unemotional look at the cost and benefits of using a new X in ubuntu+1 and see if it is really a rational decision in light of the need to (1) Hit a home run after a slightly shaky Hardy experience for many. and (2) Meet the goal of being an OS for everyone (not just the elite linux users).
[23:34] <penguin42> emma: I think the point is that it's supposed to be better at autoconfiguring so for most normal people it will be better
[23:35] <[Solars]> emma not as many people will be effected as you think...
[23:35] <[Solars]> and yes i am going to be one of those that are effected
[23:35] <penguin42> [Solars]: It really needs documenting so that people who knew how to fix things previously know what to do now
[23:35] <emma> Everyone using ATI?  And a lot of long time users who will have no idea how to configure X.
[23:35] <[Solars]> but there is no reason why new people have to use 8.10 instead of 8.04
[23:36] <emma> everyone wants to use the new thing because the expectation is the the new thing is the best thing yet.
[23:36] <penguin42> [Solars]: Well apart from if hey report any bug at all they'll immediately get a 'have you tried it in 8.10'
[23:36] <[Solars]> heh i never bought into new == better
[23:36] <emma> I think it's the expectation fair or not, and I certainly hope it's the goal.
[23:36] <[Solars]> 8.04 has support for atleast another 2 years
[23:36] <DanaG> For newer than HD2xxx-series cards, what works and what does not work on the open driver?
[23:37] <alteregoa> someone could tell me how i have to mount a ext3 filesystem as ext4?
[23:37] <penguin42> [Solars]: core/server only isn't it?
[23:37] <sivel27> anyone hear of a login issue with ibex?
[23:37] <penguin42> sivel27: login seems fine here - what you seeing?
[23:37] <DanaG> Intrepid doesn't support ext4; I've tried.
[23:37] <DanaG> :(
[23:37] <alteregoa> that sux
[23:37] <[Solars]> desktop to 2011 and server to 2013
[23:38] <penguin42> DanaG: ext4 is a bit bleeding edge!
[23:38] <sivel27> i cant even login, just an error that say authentication failed
[23:38] <alteregoa> those btfs?
[23:38] <[Solars]> just like windoes... just cuase windows releases a new flavor... doesn't mean everyone joe and dick are going to upgrade .... like at vista vs xp users
[23:38] <penguin42> sivel27: You a normal setup or do you use nis/ldap/stuff ?
[23:38] <sivel27> i cant even type in the box or select a diff session
[23:38] <alteregoa> whatever, i don't want  a murd fs
[23:38] <sivel27> normal
[23:39] <sivel27> with nfs
[23:39] <penguin42> sivel27: Oh - so you can't type at all in the graphical stuff?
[23:39] <sivel27> nope, but i see the login window
[23:39] <alteregoa> a strange bug wht
[23:39] <sivel27> every time i click th ok button, the error re appears immidietly
[23:39] <penguin42> sivel27: Ah ok; that sounds more X like and not login like; do ctrl-alt-f1 and you should get a textual login prompt - does that work?
[23:39] <sivel27> one sec,
[23:39] <sivel27> lemme try that
[23:39] <alteregoa> i had to re-assign the mdadm.conf, because the kernel changed the drives
[23:40] <penguin42> alteregoa: It does that
[23:40]  * DanaG uses /dev/disk/by-id
[23:40] <sivel27> yes, the terminal works
[23:40] <penguin42> alteregoa: Be careful; the last few revisions if you have multiple controllers then it changes on every boot
[23:40] <alteregoa> it was sda to sdf before, , now it has changed to sdl to sdp
[23:40] <DanaG> Those sdX names are not guaranteed to be persistent.
[23:40] <sivel27> but where to go from here?
[23:40] <penguin42> sivel27: OK, it sounds like you have a problem with keyboard input in 'X' - tell me about your keyboard
[23:40] <DanaG> Use UUIDs or /dev/disk/by-id
[23:41] <alteregoa> ok
[23:41] <penguin42> DanaG: They've got VERY non-persistent as of a couple of releases ago - i.e. they change at every boot
[23:41] <alteregoa> the diskid? hmm
[23:41] <sivel27> well, its on a laptop
[23:41] <penguin42> no - I mean the /dev/sd?
[23:41] <penguin42> sivel27: And this is the laptop keyboard?
[23:41] <sivel27> a older dell, never had this prob before
[23:41] <sivel27> yes
[23:41] <alteregoa> already use disk ids
[23:41] <penguin42> sivel27: Do you have a spare external keyboard oyu could try?
[23:42] <sivel27> unfortunately, i dont. not  usb, but ps2
[23:42] <penguin42> does your laptop have ps2 ?
[23:42] <sivel27> is there a specific log i can look into to find an error?
[23:42] <jaxdahl> if i am using alpha 6, does using update manager bring me up to beta?
[23:42] <sivel27> npe, only one usb
[23:42] <alteregoa> no it has only a tandy
[23:43] <alteregoa> there is a error with 3c905b, its ultra slow in sending
[23:43] <DanaG> here's what /dev/disk/by-id/ does:
[23:43] <alteregoa> going to install a realcrap card now
[23:44] <DanaG> ata-Hitachi_HTS722020K9SA00_070504DP0400DTG0529A
[23:44] <DanaG> See... it keeps the name of the device.
[23:44] <alteregoa> 120gb or something
[23:44] <penguin42> sivel27: I guess the first thing is to report a bug on it, list the model and if you can find a way to get  into the machine include a copy of /etc/X11/xorg.conf and /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[23:44] <DanaG> It'll then be ... -partX
[23:44] <alteregoa> damnid why is it so slow
[23:45] <alteregoa> i think 802p is active
[23:45] <sivel27> ok, il try that, thank you
[23:48] <platius> jaxdahl; ; if your alpha6 is current on updates you have the beta, sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade will verify
[23:57] <kjetil1001> Help guys!! May system was broken, updating from 8.04 to 8.10. will not boot, running now from 8.04CD. How to doctorthe system, apart from reinstalling 8.04?  messega from boot, > cannot find device (screen).
[23:58] <ethana2> kjetil1001: could you tell me what gpu you're using?
[23:59] <ethana2> sudo apt-get install pastebin it & lspci | pastebinit
[23:59] <ethana2> then paste the link it gives you here
[23:59] <kjetil1001> Im using a HP pavillon desktop with amd65 dual core, but 32 bit ubuntu.