[00:00] <PRGUY85> also last one looks like a gray cup
[00:00] <PRGUY85> although, do we think of Trash as Trash or Recycle Bin ?  Sebastian's icons are Recycle bins
[00:00] <_MMA_> DannyKing: We cant rep both IMO. So I'll be decisive and say we do the traditional monitor and keyboard thing.
[00:00]  * DannyKing thinks of it as a recycle bin, i.e. paper
[00:00] <DannyKing> _MMA_: that suits me
[00:02] <PRGUY85> I think the gray recycle bin by Seb is too dark
[00:03] <DannyKing> even the less dark one?
[00:03] <_MMA_> ATM the lighter gray one from Seb is the front-runner.
[00:04] <PRGUY85> yea yet the Full one looks lighter than the empty one
[00:04] <PRGUY85> that's the one I most like
[00:06] <DannyKing> _MMA_: any objection to me drawing just the CD tray  (with CD in) for the optical drive icon? (I figure it's implied it's attached to a drive)
[00:06] <_MMA_> Note that everything we hold so tightly to now can and in many instances will feel like crap later. Everything is going to go through revision and better versions will come along. For now, I'm happy we're crafting our own set.
[00:06] <PRGUY85> i just hope I could do some art
[00:07] <PRGUY85> I know shit
[00:07] <DannyKing> and drives are ugly
[00:07] <PRGUY85> hmm cd tray?
[00:07] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I'm down for entertaining that. We'll see what others think.
[00:07] <DannyKing> PRGUY85: just play with Inkscape, you get good faster than you expect. :)
[00:07] <PRGUY85> DannyKing, is that in repos?
[00:07] <DannyKing> I guess I can always add the drive later if it looks bad
[00:07] <DannyKing> sure
[00:07] <DannyKing> sudo apt-get install inkscape
[00:07] <PRGUY85> what do you mean by cd tray?
[00:07] <_MMA_> DannyKing: But yeah. Run with any ideas you want.
[00:08] <DannyKing> PRGUY85: just the part that holds the CD
[00:09] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I would ask that we try to sort the mime thing ASAP. It will allow me to get a crapload of those done quickly.
[00:10] <_MMA_> DannyKing: But I understand getting burnt looking at the same thing for hours. ;)
[00:10] <DannyKing> the base icon or the actual emblems?
[00:10] <DannyKing> nah I can face it, I've not started the drive yet. I'll attempt a simpler sheet of paper
[00:10] <_MMA_> base icon. Plan was to just use the details from Oxygen for now.
[00:15] <DannyKing> You think there should be imperfections on the page?
[00:15] <DannyKing> I think it's more realistic, but it's also more grungy
[00:16] <PRGUY85> yea I would go with perfect
[00:17] <_MMA_> Ok. Maybe we 1st need to decide if we use multiple mime bases or just go with 1. Lets do 1 base mine and use your ripped paper one for actual text files and the like.
[00:17] <PRGUY85> if you want to make it more real, give it perfect details instead of detailing imperfection
[00:17] <DannyKing> PRGUY85: example of perfect details?
[00:17] <DannyKing> _MMA_: sure
[00:18] <PRGUY85> example, istead of having a picture icon with just a photograph, add something inside the photograph
[00:18] <PRGUY85> like a miniature landscape, instead of plain film
[00:18] <DannyKing> PRGUY85: I'm talking about a plank sheet of paper though
[00:18] <DannyKing> nothing on it
[00:18] <PRGUY85> oh no
[00:18] <PRGUY85> I was just talking in general terms
[00:18] <PRGUY85> sorry
[00:19] <_MMA_> DannyKing: How about this Grab the Oxygen set right from SVN. svn co svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/KDE/kdebase/runtime/pics/oxygen
[00:19] <DannyKing> Yeah good idea, I will
[00:19] <_MMA_> That way you know a little better what I'm talking about.
[00:19] <_MMA_> brb (food)
[00:24] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Its about a 58mb DL.
[00:33] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Notice that the computer icon from SVN is different than what is on the wiki.
[00:34] <DannyKing> Okay, I'll take a peek
[00:34] <DannyKing> Although I'm going to leave that one for a while
[00:34] <_MMA_> K. I might just do one myself.
[00:34] <_MMA_> There are *many* icons here we should just use.
[00:53]  * DannyKing sighs
[00:53] <DannyKing> Inkscape crashed
[00:58] <_MMA_> w00t!
[00:59] <_MMA_> DannyKing: SVN?
[00:59] <DannyKing> I think that was stable actually
[00:59]  * DannyKing checks
[00:59] <DannyKing> Yeah, stable. I was playing with node effects and asked it to do too much
[00:59] <_MMA_> k
[01:00] <DannyKing> jitter nodes it great for making ripped paper
[01:02] <rsc-> hey guys
[01:06] <DannyKing> OMH
[01:06] <DannyKing> *OMG
[01:06]  * _MMA_ waves.
[01:06] <DannyKing> arrrghhhh!!!!
[01:06] <DannyKing> I think I'll use the svn, it's probably /more/ stable :\
[01:07] <_MMA_> ¿Qué?
[01:07] <_MMA_> Oh.
[01:07] <DannyKing> It crashed again
[01:07] <_MMA_> Ouch
[01:07] <DannyKing> Ah it made a backup
[01:09] <rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/spirit-test.jpg
[01:09] <rsc-> whatcha all think?
[01:09] <rsc-> its not much
[01:09] <rsc-> just one of those "I wonder if..." type of mockups.
[01:09] <rsc-> (yes, I think it's possible to do with gtk/metacity flawlessly)
[01:10] <_MMA_> I like it.
[01:10] <DannyKing> me too
[01:10] <rsc-> cool :)
[01:12] <_MMA_> With some color changes we could use it for Studio. :P
[01:14] <rsc-> are you serious :b
[01:15] <rsc-> isn't that a bit too... against the studio aesthetic?
[01:15] <DannyKing> What's the most common background colour for icons?
[01:16] <rsc-> not to be captain obvious, but i'd say white.
[01:16] <rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/spirit-test-2.jpg
[01:17] <rsc-> (i like it a lot myself!)
[01:17]  * DannyKing is finding it hard to make paper look good on white
[01:17] <DannyKing> all my detail gets lost :(
[01:18] <rsc-> heh :)
[01:18] <_MMA_> Hmm....
[01:19]  * _MMA_ wonders if we should try a subtle tan?
[01:19] <DannyKing> For the paper
[01:19] <DannyKing> I've gone with a very light grey
[01:20] <_MMA_> k
[01:25] <rsc-> not bad
[01:25] <rsc-> tan/peach
[01:26]  * rsc- wonders why PS takes 30 seconds to save a jpeg
[01:26] <DannyKing> Okay take a look at:
[01:26] <rsc-> http://dump.ambiescent.com/i/spirit-test-3.jpg
[01:26] <rsc-> :D
[01:26] <rsc-> *drool*
[01:27] <_MMA_> Fun. :)
[01:28] <DannyKing> http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/2115/paper2wp0.png
[01:28] <_MMA_> I think the shadow needs work but I like it. :)
[01:29] <rsc-> oh no no no DannyKing
[01:29] <rsc-> thats not right :/
[01:29] <rsc-> i like it.
[01:29] <rsc-> but its gotta be tweaked to work on white-on-white
[01:29] <_MMA_> Made updates: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons
[01:29] <rsc-> consider some shadows in the paper itself
[01:29] <rsc-> (the nonuniform shadows are nice btw)
[01:29] <DannyKing> rsc-: good idea. _MMA_ what should I do to the shadow?
[01:30] <_MMA_> rsc-: No. Remember this will be a base icon. SO there will be details about the file on it.
[01:30] <DannyKing> rsc-: thanks. The paper icon in every single icon set is so boring
[01:30] <rsc-> _MMA_, I still say shade the inside somehow. the details can go on top of it
[01:32] <_MMA_> DannyKing: If you look at the Oxygen set, at the keyboard icon, it really doesn't fit with the others. Where other devices are table view. I wish it was so I coulda used it with the monitor I threw up there.
[01:35] <rsc-> :D
[01:35] <rsc-> example:
[01:35] <rsc-> http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6159/paper2wpcopybm5.jpg
[01:36] <rsc-> (try opening both images in two separate firefox tabs, then alternate between the two)
[01:36] <rsc-> the kinda-curl effect wasn't quite executed right, though
[01:36] <rsc-> but im sure you get hte idea
[01:36] <DannyKing> _MMA_: yeah I see what you mean
[01:37] <rsc-> that's just my take
[01:37] <DannyKing> rsc-: I like it :) I'll have a go
[01:37] <DannyKing> I was thinking of making creases near the edge
[01:37] <DannyKing> like it has been held
[01:37] <rsc-> _MMA_, what did you think of that one?
[01:37] <rsc-> not too much
[01:37] <rsc-> dont want it to look trashy
[01:37] <_MMA_> rsc-: Both have promise. :)
[01:38] <rsc-> a dog ear is another cliche to consider
[01:38] <DannyKing> rsc-: no :p
[01:38] <DannyKing> rsc-: every paper icon in the /world/ has a curl
[01:39] <rsc-> haha
[01:39]  * _MMA_ sits back and watches the feud. :)
[01:39] <DannyKing> I'll do that as a last resort, and if that happens you'll know I've lost my soul... so you better had send me some ben & jerries to restore it.
[01:39] <DannyKing> :D
[01:41] <_MMA_> New wiki update by seb.
[01:42] <DannyKing> I like it
[01:42] <DannyKing> some of my criticism from the list still stands
[01:42] <_MMA_> brb
[01:44] <_MMA_> I think those are good enough to update BZR with though. yes/no?
[01:44] <DannyKing> yeah definitely
[01:47] <_MMA_> Ok. I'll update before I go to bed.
[01:49]  * DannyKing should go too
[01:51] <DannyKing> aw, just as I did his shading for him :p
[01:53] <DannyKing> http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6702/paper2xv1.png
[01:54] <DannyKing> I don't know which is better
[01:54]  * _MMA_ clicks
[01:54] <DannyKing> I'm going to make that inner shadow more subtle
[01:54] <_MMA_> Cool.
[01:55] <DannyKing> http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4975/paper2mg2.png
[01:56] <DannyKing> Looks okay on all backgrounds (least good on black)
[01:58] <_MMA_> k
[02:22] <DannyKing> _MMA_: stick around for a few mins before you go to bed, been playing with emblems
[02:27] <_MMA_> k
[02:27] <_MMA_> I updated the Trash icons but BZR is being a pain. I might have to wait 'till my AM.
[02:27] <DannyKing> Ok
[02:28] <DannyKing> Right here we go:
[02:28] <DannyKing> http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imagesyw9.png
[02:28] <DannyKing> Just playing around so don't worry if you don't like it
[02:29] <DannyKing> It's a variation on that idea I showed you yesterday. At smaller sizes the 'pixels' would become very simple and the text would dissapear
[02:29] <DannyKing> Perhaps it'd look better using different colours for the different image types
[02:29] <_MMA_> Sure. I think it has promise. We gotta make the paper pop of of white backgrounds though. The shadow there won't do.
[02:30] <DannyKing> okay
[02:30] <DannyKing> I'll put them on the discussions page
[02:30] <_MMA_> killer
[02:38] <DannyKing> Submitted to list and wiki
[02:38] <DannyKing> I'm off to bed, night _MMA_
[02:38] <_MMA_> Night sir
[02:49] <_MMA_> Added trash icons. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons
[02:58] <_MMA_> night
[03:03] <Starks> why canonical trolling us with their silence?
[03:05] <BHSPitMonkey> _MMA_, nice!
[03:06] <BHSPitMonkey> but come on, Breathe Icon Set guys
[03:06] <BHSPitMonkey> pick a perspective and stick to it please
[06:52] <rsc-> !bot
[06:53] <rsc-> !notworking
[07:39] <kwwii> good morning, sweethearts
[12:14] <_MMA_> yo
[12:33] <caio> this is the new theme of ubuntu 8.10? http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=0x2008&image=ubuntu_intrepid_theme1_lrg
[12:46] <Cimi> caio, I really hope it will be changed
[12:48] <caio> I too
[12:55] <thorwil> _MMA_: hi! where does the new computer icon come from?
[12:57] <_MMA_> thorwil: The Oxygen set. Though I made it widescreen and changed the color from blue to orange. Needs a keyboard still.
[13:02] <aantn> Cimi: yeah
[13:02] <aantn> Cimi: the background is... ugh
[13:03] <thorwil> ugh?
[13:07] <aantn> thorwil: the dots all over the screen?
[13:07] <thorwil> oh, that
[13:08] <aantn> to be fair, I haven't actually set it as my own desktop background to try it
[13:08] <aantn> it just looks like something that would have gone in five years ago
[13:08] <thorwil> i think it looks like something that was created on the last minute, working late at night ^^
[13:12] <Cimi> aantn, the mistake is the gtk theme, the background usually is changed after 10 seconds ;)
[13:13] <aantn> Cimi: that too :)
[13:13] <DannyKing> Hi all
[13:13] <thorwil> hi DannyKing
[13:13] <DannyKing> How's it going?
[13:14] <DannyKing> The new computer icon theme came from oxygen, _MMA_ just put it there to replace the old one for the time being
[13:14] <thorwil> long weekend in front of me :)
[13:14] <DannyKing> ah that's good news :)
[13:14] <DannyKing> public holiday
[13:14] <DannyKing> ?
[13:14] <thorwil> yes
[13:15]  * DannyKing has to pack all his things today for university
[13:15] <thorwil> german reunion day (or however it's translated officially) tomorrow
[13:15] <DannyKing> I don't want to pack my office up, I love it!
[13:15] <DannyKing> ah cool
[13:15] <DannyKing> Did you see my empty page icon?
[13:16] <thorwil> DannyKing: yes, just replied on list
[13:17] <DannyKing> DIN A format is the german term for A4 format perhaps?
[13:18] <thorwil> "The international paper size standard, ISO 216, is based on the German DIN 476 standard for paper sizes" ;)
[13:18] <DannyKing> ah heh okay
[13:26] <DannyKing> Go to apple.com and look at the paint on the nano advert
[13:27] <DannyKing> it looks amazing!
[13:27] <DannyKing> I think something like that realistic (splashed paint) might be good for the generic-image icon? Or perhaps .xcf or other artistic filetypes
[13:27] <thorwil> *shrug*
[14:13] <_MMA_> DannyKing: I'm wondering. After looking over Oxygen more and considering what kwwii has said, you think you would still be able to work at 128px?
[14:14] <_MMA_> 1 reason would be that it would make less resizing work using things from Oxygen.
[14:18] <DannyKing> Yeah sure
[14:18] <DannyKing> You still want 256px being worked on?
[14:19] <_MMA_> We would stop 256 and work at 128.
[14:19] <_MMA_> I wanted to get thoughts 1st.
[14:19] <_MMA_> From thinking about it, everyone seems to get plenty of detail at that size.
[14:19] <DannyKing> If you think that's best I'm fine with it - what brought on the change in thinking? 'Cause you were pretty passionately for 256px before?
[14:20] <DannyKing> Also you'll need to change the template
[14:20] <_MMA_> I noticed that I was doing alot of up-sizing from Oxygen.
[14:20] <_MMA_> Which makes it larger sure, but no more detail than if we worked at 128.
[14:22] <_MMA_> DannyKing: So I believe we can get the detail level we want (everyone else seems to) while reducing the amount of resizing work to be done.
[14:23] <_MMA_> I know I'll have to adjust what's there already. It's not too much work. I just have to do it now.
[14:26] <DannyKing> Sure
[14:27] <DannyKing> I'll update the paper svg I made last night to 128px and also include the smaller sizes
[14:27] <DannyKing> Then if I have time I'll attempt a generic-image icon
[14:27] <_MMA_> Cool.
[14:35] <DannyKing> just saw your post, I guess it'll be more helpful if I work on something else rather than the generic-image icon (I don't mind), so I'll work on the cd tray
[14:35] <DannyKing> er drive*
[14:36] <_MMA_> No. We still need the base file. :) The background to be used.
[14:36] <DannyKing> the blank paper?
[14:38] <_MMA_> Si
[14:39] <DannyKing> Yeah it'll be done pretty soon I think.
[14:44] <DannyKing> _MMA_: is there any chance that jimmac's workflow could be modified to support multiple layers for the artwork? It's a lot easier to edit when you can lock or hide aspects of an icon you don't want to touch (shadows, highlights, colour)
[14:46] <DannyKing> Also I find it useful to have a 'scraps' layer, in which I keep shapes that I may need to use in the future
[14:46] <_MMA_> DannyKing: Anything above the "plate" layer will be rendered. Its one reason the plate has to be hidden before saving.
[14:46] <DannyKing> Ah okay, great
[14:47] <_MMA_> DannyKing: But no to the scraps layer. As it will be bloat for the source files.
[14:47] <DannyKing> k
[14:57] <_MMA_> I'm gonna be away for a bit. I have some things to take care of here and it will take some concentration to revise these SVGs quickly.
[14:57] <DannyKing> okay
[14:57] <DannyKing> one quick question:
[14:57] <_MMA_> k
[14:57] <DannyKing> do you prefer a slightly ripped top & bottom for the blank page or just the usual?
[14:58] <_MMA_> The usual for now.
[15:15] <_MMA_> bbl. PM if needed.
[16:23]  * thorwil wants mirroring/symmetrical editing in inkscape
[16:24] <rsc-> are you making a face?
[16:26] <thorwil> no, working on the lid of the bin
[16:28] <thorwil> we all need to pay more attention. the shape of the lid doesn't follow the rounded edges of the body
[16:31] <rsc-> okay
[16:31] <rsc-> are we going with the plastic submission of sebastian porta?
[16:31] <DannyKing> Looks like that's the favourite
[16:32] <thorwil> yes, except that i'm trying to improve it right now
[16:33] <rsc-> yeah, needsimprovement imho
[16:34]  * DannyKing agrees
[16:55]  * thorwil cuts shapes in halves to then mirror one half, align the 2 parts to touch at the center and do a union
[16:56] <rsc-> how can you union with inkscape?
[16:58] <thorwil> rsc-: Path > Union, with more than one path object selected
[16:59] <rsc-> cool
[16:59] <thorwil> the boolean ops are a great help
[17:01] <rsc-> thats nice.
[17:01] <rsc-> i thought there was no pathfinder equivalent in inkscape
[17:06] <thorwil> i'm very happy with inkscape, never miss freehand or illustrator. except maybe for gradient meshes, but i never got to work with them
[17:06] <thorwil> blur performance is an issue, but i don't know how it compares to illustrator there
[17:06] <thorwil> bbl
[17:07] <rsc-> i misss it for meshes and blend shape
[18:23] <thorwil> rsc-: blend shape?
[18:25] <thorwil> aha! http://shapeshed.com/journal/illustrator_101_the_blend_tool/
[20:25] <rsc-> yes
[20:25] <rsc-> and art brushes
[22:59] <kwwii> wow, someone should have shown me a boot chart from ubuntu earlier
[23:38] <PRGUY85> hello people
[23:56] <Cimi> kwwii, I think firefox was patched
[23:56] <Cimi> with latest revisions of murrine you'll have rounded gtkentry inside firefox