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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: ubuntu-pa LoCo Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 12:00: MOTU Team | 06 Oct 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 07 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council
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=== ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 12:00: MOTU Team | 06 Oct 04:00: Arizona LoCo IRC | 07 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 07 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 07 Oct 19:00: LoCo Council | 07 Oct 21:00: Community Council
damhyojungwhere r u guys from08:44
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MootBotMeeting started at 07:00. The chair is davidm.13:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]13:00
davidmHello time to start the mobile meeting13:00
* ogra waves13:00
StevenKWas in the middle of typing /join when you said ...13:01
davidm lool persia ?13:01
* persia may or may not be here, depending on the possibility of netsplits13:01
StevenKAnd lag13:01
davidmOK, lets get started13:01
loolYou're not allowed to mock me for this, but I just called in the conf call line and waited 2 minutes while preparing a coffee13:02
StevenKOh yes we are13:02
loolNo mocking!!13:02
davidmThe first action was a carry over for cgregan13:02
davidmbut he is not around so I'll carry it again13:02
davidm[topic] cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb13:03
MootBotNew Topic:  cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb13:03
davidm[action] cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO)13:03
MootBotACTION received:  cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO)13:03
davidm[topic] StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability13:03
MootBotNew Topic:  StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability13:03
looldavidm: cgregan told me he probably can't attend IRC meeting this week, but will attend tomorrow's phone call13:03
davidmlool, thanks13:03
davidmStevenK, any progress on spec's?13:03
StevenKdavidm: I've not done that yet, I keep get distracted. :-(13:04
StevenKIt is still on my list.13:04
davidmI'll carry it over, can you get to it this week?13:04
StevenKI've set it as my number 1 task tomorrow13:04
davidm[action] StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability (CO)13:04
MootBotACTION received:  StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability (CO)13:04
StevenKThere was another spec persia and I mentioned13:04
persiaOh, the new one?13:04
* persia checks13:04
StevenKNot for the meeting, so I can also write it tomorrow13:05
davidmdo I need to make an action?13:05
davidm[topic] status of intrepid tasks13:05
MootBotNew Topic:  status of intrepid tasks13:05
persiaYeah, the new one was having a nice menu when booting the image.13:06
loolWe have mobile images13:06
loolI could install mobile on my Q1U13:06
loolmid fails has misc small issues13:06
davidmI showed Matt the mobile images yesterday13:06
loolThere are issues in the kvm install too13:06
looldavidm: Is Matt at the same site this week?13:07
davidmlool, he is in London I believe13:07
davidmOK from the top13:07
* StevenK waits13:07
davidmStevenK, status for intreped, blockers etc?13:07
StevenKdavidm: No blockers, just need to make more than 24 hours in the day13:08
* lool gives a time machine to StevenK 13:08
StevenKI'm also looking at NBS since I'd like that list to be empty by release, but that's more a task of archive being clean13:09
davidmStevenK, OK, anything specific we need to know about?13:09
StevenKKourou 0.4 has been uploaded which adds an icon for the Installer13:10
* persia dances13:10
StevenKKourou 0.5 will be prepared tomorrow which allows single or double click since both lool and I discovered that double clicking on a touch screen is *hard*13:10
* persia tends to have to triple-click or more13:10
ogra-mobile uses single for nautilus a well13:10
StevenKogra: I discovered the touch screen works too :-)13:11
loolYeah, I'm like tripe touching as well13:11
StevenKBy accident13:11
ograStevenK, yeah :)13:11
loolUntil I realize midbrowser /really/ doesn't launch   :-P13:11
StevenKHm. I wasn't aware of that.13:11
davidmlool, midbrowser is broken?13:11
loolYeah, it seems recently13:12
loolSomeone said this was known already13:12
ograasac, is aware13:12
ograbut we need a backtrace, i didnt get to that yet13:12
davidmis this listed against release or something?13:12
loolIn all cases it should be13:12
loologra: Is there an open bug and does it have proper flags?13:13
davidmlool, thanks I was about to ask that13:13
ogralool, not yet13:13
StevenKOh yeah, it's that abort() thing13:13
loologra: You seem to be the best person to file it if you don't mind13:14
asacanyone tried if a respin fixes this?13:14
StevenKs/spin/build/ ?13:14
ogralool, doing right now13:14
loologra: thanks13:14
davidm[action] ogra to file midbrowser bug13:15
MootBotACTION received:  ogra to file midbrowser bug13:15
davidmOK StevenK anything else?13:15
StevenKYes, but I think there's a seperate action for it, so it can wait13:15
davidmpersia, status?13:15
persiaErm.  The installer *should* have all the last bits in it, except something appears still to not work.  I'm tracking down why.13:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 277074 in midbrowser "midbrowser doesnt launch in current beta images " [Undecided,New]13:16
loolpersia: There's this import error, displaying the ubiquity launcher, and launching ubiquity in automatic mode, correct?13:17
persiaThere's an outstanding issue with language packs: in part because of the way the images are constructed, we don't have any language packs, so users have to download them during the install.13:17
persiaStevenK and I discussed that some, and thought that we'd do best to have a local repository for jaunty, and put up with network access requirements for intrepid.13:17
StevenKDisplaying the launcher I've taken care of13:17
asacrebuilding midbrowser in current intrepid fixes it13:18
loolasac: Thanks13:18
StevenKOkay, I will upload a rebuild13:18
loolasac: You pushed that?13:18
persiaWe're still not installing in automatic mode, because we can't preseed blank passwords: I'm planning to ask the installer team to review a fix for this after beta is complete.13:18
loolStevenK: Thanks; midbrowser is big13:18
asaclool: err. i see that it there is a change that is not in git in the package13:18
persiaAs a result, it's possible for users to change the username, which breaks X.13:18
asaccan you please at least forward me patches when uploading?13:19
loolStevenK: ^13:19
persiaAnd in KVM testing, it was discovered that performing an install in KVM can corrupt the local image if the user does not chattr +i first.  Setting this chattr +i breaks the install.13:19
asacanyone knows if git-to-bzr is usable?13:19
asaci would like to move the code over to launchpad if possible13:19
StevenKasac: Didn't we have this discussion when I did it last month?13:20
asacso everyone can commit to that13:20
persiaOne possible workaround is to use ISO images instead of USB images, which also has the benefit of letting us use usb-creator for install devices.13:20
asacStevenK: might be :) ... wasnt a complain. just a reminder. if that was already discussed its fine13:20
davidmpersia, but these devices only have USB13:20
StevenKasac: If not, the diff that launchpad generates is fine13:20
loolThis looks like we will redo the same discussion as on #ubuntu-mobile13:21
asacStevenK: oh13:21
StevenKdavidm: persia means getting the dailies to generate an .iso and then using usb-creator to make .img's out of them13:21
asacStevenK: http://git.moblin.org/repos/?p=projects/mobile-browser.git;a=shortlog;h=intrepid13:21
asaci already released -3 ... maybe upload that ;)13:21
persiaStevenK: Well, to actually initialise USB disks, but yes.13:21
StevenK* drop ubufox from Suggests; ubufox doesnt support ...13:21
StevenKThat's my -2 change, too13:21
asacStevenK: yeah. i replayed your change and bumped again for gsfonts or something13:21
StevenKasac: midbrowser is enormous, you can upload it if you want13:22
persiaSo, we discussed this at length in #ubuntu-mobile: it seems we *should* discuss it at UDS Jaunty, but there was still a difference of opinions for intrepid.13:22
asaci have no time until next week or so13:22
loolI'm of the general opinion than we shouldn't change anything big anymore13:22
StevenKRight, I will, then13:22
asacif noone comes around remind me then so it doesnt get lost13:22
persiaStevenK: How hard is it to switch from .img to .iso?  If it's trivial, I want to change, if it's non-trivial, I'll drop it.13:22
davidmOk someone write a spec for Jaunty, who is going to do this, persia ?13:22
StevenKIt's non-trivial13:22
loolCool, settles the discussion13:22
persiaBother.  Oh well, let the bugs live.13:22
ograDOORBELL !!!13:23
persiadavidm: StevenK is probably the best choice, as he already has all the keys.  I can help, but I don't have the keys to actually do it.13:23
persiaAnd I'll take an action to write some release notes warning users *not* to do an install in a virtual environment, as it may corrupt the images.13:24
loolpersia: What about the other ubiquity issues?13:24
StevenKThe spec has to document discussion13:24
davidmStevenK, can you work with persia on a spec for Jaunty13:24
StevenKdavidm, persia: Just write the spec, the implementation discussion can wait until UDS13:24
persiaLet's have a fresh discussion about it at UDS.13:24
davidm[action] persia to write some release notes warning users *not* to do an install in a virtual environment, as it may corrupt the images.13:24
MootBotACTION received:  persia to write some release notes warning users *not* to do an install in a virtual environment, as it may corrupt the images.13:24
ograit works in vbox13:24
persiaogra: Indeed, and I'll include your hints in the notes :)13:25
loolIt's just qemu/kvm-broken13:25
* ogra dances ... 13:25
loolpersia: What about the other bugs in the mid install?13:25
persiaWhich bugs?13:25
* ogra holds a brandnew BT freedom keyboard in his hands13:25
davidm[action] persia  write the spec about converting the dailies to generate an .iso and then using usb-creator to make .img's out of them13:25
MootBotACTION received:  persia  write the spec about converting the dailies to generate an .iso and then using usb-creator to make .img's out of them13:25
loolThat I mentionned earlier13:25
loologra: I don't understand: you didn't like the Q1U's keyboard???13:26
StevenKHow could you not?13:26
* StevenK chokes13:26
ograits for my n80013:26
persiaThe display issue has been fixed for a bit.  The "import error" was solved, exposing something else, and automatic was discussed already.13:26
persiaDId I miss something?13:26
ograthe Q1 has a wireless kbd attached :)13:26
loolpersia: Where are these fixed?13:27
persiadisplay is fixed in kourou 0.4, import is fixed in ubiquity 1.10.213:27
loolpersia: ubiquity 1.10.3 is in the archive, and there was an image respin13:28
persiaautomatic is about 50% fixed in my local branches, and will be presented to the installer team after the beta.13:28
loolpersia: And I got an import error with the latest mid image13:28
loolI fear the import issues is another one13:28
loolDid you manage to install MID?13:28
persiaWhich error?  You shouldn't get an import error.  You should get a Debconf error.  Are you sure you have the latest image?13:28
loolSorry, I think I wrote import error in this meeting when I met python traceback13:29
loolI'm getting a debconf python traceback13:29
StevenKThat's a known error13:29
persiaOK.  That's expected.13:29
loolYeah, so I'm asking about the status of this bug :)13:29
loolI'm happy it's known13:30
davidmand a bug # please13:30
persiaI keep getting distracted.  I've at least identified several things it's not.13:30
persiaNo idea against which package to file a bug yet.13:30
StevenKdavidm: To make your day brighter, I commited a change to the seeds that contained the diff: - * moblin-media13:30
loolpersia: I'd file one against ubiquity as a start and reassign appropriately13:31
persialool: I'm 95% sure it's not ubiquity.13:31
loolpersia: We need to milestone this bug and get it on the release team's radar that we are having a critical issue preventing install13:31
persiaYes.  I should have a bug (and a fix) soon.13:32
davidm[action] persia to file bug  Debconf error against ubiquity today13:33
MootBotACTION received:  persia to file bug  Debconf error against ubiquity today13:33
davidmOK moving on13:33
davidmogra, status, issues?13:33
ograwell, mobile is looking fine apart from the midbrowser issue13:34
davidmogra, good13:35
ograi have a bunch of pending touchscreen driver things resulting from eth umpcportal feedback13:35
ograi'm about to write a fresh blog entry pointing to the images on cdimage13:35
ograwell, thats mainly for me, no blockers or anything13:35
davidmthat should generate some traffic13:36
davidmamitk_, how is kernel land?13:36
persiaOh, right, that reminds me: the Forums team is looking at organising a forum for Ubuntu Mobile.13:36
davidmpersia, good13:36
amitk_davidm: with meta and aufs out of the way, I am working on lrm now13:37
amitk_hope to make it available tomorrow.13:37
loolamitk_: Do you have other critical tasks for intrepid?13:38
ograis there any chance ath5k could be fixed ?13:38
loolWell we could live without lrm13:38
StevenKExcept then wireless doesn't work13:38
persiaI'd *much* prefer lrm.  It might make me able to have *some* sort of network connection.13:38
ograwe will have to rovide a blacklist file from the -default-settings package if not, as ath5k is preferred by default13:39
loolpersia: You also have atheros devices?13:39
amitk_I need to push new drivers from Intel into Hardy and try to forward-port DRM driver to intrepid.13:39
persialool: Quite possibly: no idea what is on this USB dongle that doesn't work.13:39
loolmadwifi doesn't support usb wifi13:39
ograusually usb wifi needs firmware13:39
persiaOh well.  I'm not so excited about then :)13:40
ograwhich is in lrm :) )13:40
* persia vacillates13:40
loolSo lrm is nice for the Q1 to have, it's high priority, but we could release without it13:40
amitk_if enabling madwifi will get the samsung users off my back, I might as well do it :)13:40
ograamitk_, well, we need to make sure ath5k doesnt get preferred though13:41
ogracurrently you have to blacklist it manually13:41
ograelse it gets loaded regardless if madwifi is there13:41
StevenKWe can add that to -default-settings13:41
amitk_ogra: I am sure you'll fix that blacklist once lrm is available :-p13:42
StevenKEasily, I say13:42
davidmamitk_, anything else?13:42
ograwell, but that indeed disables it for all devices where ath5k would work13:42
amitk_just a rebase to 2.6.27-rc8 that is pending (base kernel was rebased yesterday) - not critical this week.13:42
* lool think this should be fixed in ath5k, either in terms of devices it claims to support or in actually supporting them :-P13:42
ogra(we have  netbook user on our open bug for whom it works with the same chipset in a different device)13:43
ogra(at least he claims that)13:43
ogralool, ++ ... but might be hard to do13:43
ograin the above light13:43
amitk_davidm: that's it on my end13:43
davidmlets take the rest of the ath5k madwifi conversation off-line13:44
davidmamitk_, thanks13:44
davidmlool, status?13:44
loolI've been working on MIRs and am now part of the ubuntu-mir team13:44
loolIt could help to some extent for some mobile promotions, but I should rather get mobile stuff reviewed by someone with a neutral opinion on inclusion; so not a big change for mobile efforts13:45
loolIt's going to be a help for easy stuff though13:45
loolI helped on misc beta stuff and discussed with release team13:46
StevenKI think it's a bit late to get stuff promoted, though13:46
loolI intend to continue testing images and looking into release critical bugs13:46
loolNo particular blocker13:47
looldavidm: status13:47
davidmI'm just back from a meeting yesterday13:47
davidmwith Intel about Moblin 2.0 was interesting13:48
davidmthey are staging netbooks now to April, MID post that to October13:48
loolThis matches what I was told at OSIM13:49
loolSo it's /not/ slipping!  :-)13:49
davidmWell at least not currently13:49
davidmbeyond that it takes a day of travel there and a day back so that has been the entire week so far13:50
davidmOK 10 minute warning13:50
davidmthat covers the agenda I think comments?13:50
StevenKdavidm: I got no reply to my news.13:51
StevenKdavidm: I have uploaded a mobile-meta that drops moblin-media13:51
StevenKdavidm: We are replacing it with totem and gthumb.13:51
davidmdoes it work as well as moblin media?13:51
StevenKtotem is better, IMO13:52
ian_brasilStevenK: i think that totally rocks to be honest...moblin-media was difficult to say the least13:52
StevenKgthumb looks good, too13:52
davidmGood enough then13:52
ogrado we have a solution with the X team for psb ?13:52
loologra: I'm not sure we have a solution for the drm situation13:53
ogra(it should be dropped from xserver-xorg-video-all if it breaks, so at least -vesa is available for psb users)13:53
davidmnope, Intel will not have a psb driver for Intrepid until sometime in December soonest13:53
loolor the exa one13:53
ograi'm not talking about intel but about us :)13:53
ogravesa seems to work on some of them13:53
ograbut psb gets prefereed by xorg as long as its there13:54
davidmogra, ah sorry that was a topic of the meeting Tuesday too.13:54
ograso we should drop the package13:54
loologra: I dropped it from video-all13:54
ograoh, ok13:54
loolit's just pending acceptance by release team, will be after beta13:54
ograi had many requests for psb in the mobile feedback13:54
ogranot having it will cost us users i guess :(13:54
ograbut vesa is better than nothing13:55
loolThe problem is that psb lives out of tree and is incompatible with rest of the drivers13:55
ograyeah, i know the upstream issues13:55
ograi'm just sad because that was one of the often asked questions13:55
loolAny solution to have the two drms available in libdrm and the two exas would cost us in maintenance and be a pain to setup13:55
loolIt's Intel's to fix and fix upstream13:56
davidm4 minute warning13:56
ograwe could just say its pittis fault :P13:56
persiaThere could be a -psb PPA, as there is a -nouveau PPA, if anyone ports it.13:56
davidmOK any other opens13:56
loologra: We could provide psb in a ppa?13:56
loolStill require kernel, libdrm, psb uploads, but not too intrusive, less time consuming, and has a chance to work13:57
loolAlso points out it's unsupported13:57
loolpersia: Oh *synergy*13:57
* ogra wonders if we could hack that into the installer somehow to add to apt/sources.list.d13:57
persiaogra: That would be *bad*.13:57
loologra: Urgh, no13:57
StevenKNo more PPAs13:57
MacSlowhey seb12813:58
seb128hello there13:58
ogra*not* into the image but at install time13:58
davidm2 minutes13:58
loolWe could hack it in grub that if you boot Ubuntu with the intention to do this, it prevents booting13:58
* MacSlow is all out excited about gimp 2.6.013:58
persiaI like that.13:58
loologra: let's discuss after meeting13:58
* lool waves to desktop team13:58
StevenKMacSlow: Oooooh!13:58
ograits just easier than having to add a PPA source13:58
StevenKMacSlow: When is it due?13:58
MacSlowStevenK, dude it so funky what they did in just a year from 2.4.0 to 2.6.013:59
* ogra still likes gdebi though, but its more than one package ...13:59
loolStevenK: It's released13:59
MacSlowStevenK, like yesterday or so13:59
* pedro_ waves13:59
looldavidm: #close-the-meeting? :)13:59
MacSlowStevenK, check out http://gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.6.html13:59
StevenKOh yes13:59
davidm #endmeeting  going once13:59
MootBotMeeting finished at 07:59.13:59
StevenKNew upstreams of gimp make me happy13:59
StevenKdavidm: Going once, you say?14:00
davidmWhoops did not expect it to do that14:00
loolWe go at ONE14:00
davidmit removed the whitespace and grabbed it, oh well14:00
StevenKReady, on my GO!14:00
davidmKeybuk, it's all yours ;-)14:00
MootBotMeeting started at 08:00. The chair is Keybuk.14:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]14:00
Keybuk[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-0214:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-0214:01
Keybukafternoon everybody14:01
tedgGood morning.14:01
KeybukI'd like to rattle through as quickly as we can today, we overran last week14:01
Keybuk[TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting14:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting14:01
Keybuk# pitti to discuss gnome-keyring confirmation dialog behaviour in upstream bug14:01
pittidone, and followed up on u-desktop@ (no responses there, though)14:02
pittisummary is that I think it's fine to entirely disable that dialog for intrepid14:02
Keybuk * mvo to decide on FOSScamp attendance14:02
Keybuk * kwwii to decide on FOSScamp attendance14:02
pittisince it doesn't give us any security14:02
Keybukmvo, kwwii: did you decide?14:02
kwwiiKeybuk: yes, I do not think I am going :-)14:03
Keybukok, mvo?14:03
MacSlowkwwii, sweet14:03
mvoI will come, it will problably make sense14:03
MacSlowmvo, cool14:03
Keybukso that means attending FOSScamp are: me, pitti, mpt, seb128, Riddell, MacSlow and mvo14:03
Keybuknot attending are tedg, kwwii14:03
MacSlowkwwii, ?14:04
MacSlowis my xchat messing with me14:04
Keybuk * seb128 to add GNOME people to sponsorship list14:04
Keybukgreat, thanks14:04
Keybuk[TOPIC] Farewells14:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Farewells14:05
KeybukThis will be tedg and MacSlow's last meeting as a member of this team14:05
Keybukon Monday, they'll be moving to the new desktop experience team14:05
* mpt passes the tissues14:05
* tedg waves14:05
* pitti hugs tedg and MacSlow14:05
* mvo waves to tedg and MacSlow14:05
MacSlowah... I'll be here anyway14:05
Keybukof course, they're likely to still hang out in our meeting anyway ;)14:05
Keybuktedg, MacSlow: David Barth is lucky to have you!14:06
MacSlowI just hope I'll be albe to return the helping-favour to the desktop-team, in GL/cairo-regards someday :)14:06
tedgI like to call it stalking :)14:06
seb128good luck to you there ;-)14:06
Keybukand in what will seem like no time at all14:06
MacSlowmvo, seb128, pitti: but still expect me to run into you for debian-ish questions :)14:06
Keybuk(a mere 18 days)14:06
Keybukmvo will be moving over to the foundations team14:06
* mvo will just be in the office next door14:07
pittimvo: *hug* mate14:07
seb128mvo: you can still come and visit whenever you want ;-)14:07
Keybukmvo: they have meetings at silly times ;)14:08
mvoI will still hang out in #ubuntu-desktop!14:08
seb128mvo: ;-)14:08
seb128so who is staying on board?14:08
mvoI don't like the sound of silly times ...14:08
seb128that will be faster this way ;-)14:08
Keybukseb128: we'll be getting a whole bunch of new people14:09
Keybukbut since cvd hasn't sent that e-mail yet, I'm going to defer until then :)14:09
Keybukthe changes in the Ubuntu Platform team aren't anything to be concerned about14:10
MacSlowseb128, you'll get a new sidekick don't you? :)14:10
Keybukwe're all just one big team, and people moving around a bit between the individual parts should be seen as a good thing14:10
seb128MacSlow: "new", I don't have a old one ;-)14:10
kwwiiseb128: you got me, baby14:10
* tedg thinks that we need to make seb128 a cape with a GNOME logo on it...14:11
seb128kwwii: you want to do GNOME updates now? ;-)14:11
Keybukok, let's move on14:11
Keybukwe have a bit of a monster topic here14:11
Keybuk[TOPIC] Handling the logout applet/old fusa -> new fusa transition on upgrades14:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Handling the logout applet/old fusa -> new fusa transition on upgrades14:11
Keybukmdz: are you here?14:11
MacSlowseb128, ehm... yeah right damn :)14:11
seb128Keybuk: not sure that's a meeting topic14:11
MacSlowkwwii, you more like a sidepunch14:11
seb128ie, the discussion is going on the bug tracker14:11
pittiright, there's a lively discussion going on, and right now it's still not clear what the best way forward is14:11
kwwiiMacSlow: kidney-punch-ken can be my new nick14:12
Keybukpitti: you proposed it as a topic for discussion, was there anything you wanted to discuss here that isn't being handled in the bug?>14:12
MacSlowKeybuk, tedg: won't that also touch me (new gdm) at some point14:12
seb128I think the bug is right place to discuss that14:12
pittibut the question I'm still looking for an answer for is whether it's possible to make g-p load f-u-s-a if your gconf says you either have the old fusa or the old logout applet?14:12
mvowas the interactive upgrade hook idea discussed (maybe I got dropped from the CC)?14:12
KeybukMacSlow: shouldn't do - the main problem here is moving applets around in existing user sessions14:13
pittimvo: didn't reply yet; it's a fallback, but it still has problems14:13
seb128pitti: I'm going to reply to mdz mails listing 3 courses of actions14:13
seb128I started on this mail before the meetic14:13
pittimvo: like, after that you can't ever go back14:13
kwwiiin any case, I am going to make sure that the little power button icon comes back (effectively killing the little green man)14:13
pittiok, let's continue to discuss it by mail then14:13
Keybukseb128: great!14:13
Keybukthat seems like a good idea14:13
Keybukif we have three options, we can rate the pro/con of each, and make an informed decision14:13
Keybukgood move14:13
mvopitti: thats a matter of the script i think, we could add code that allows this14:13
seb128mvo: "it's only code"14:14
mvoseb128: heh :)14:14
pittimvo: I mean in terms of dual-booting other distros/releases, or sharing your /home in a network with several workstations with different releases, etc.14:14
tedgseb128: Are you going to include the "all new namespaces" option -- that's presently my favorite on the list of bad options :)14:14
pittiI am really veto'ing the idea of any automatic gconftool'ification during upgrade14:15
mvopitti: right, shared home is a problem14:15
seb128tedg: no, one of the option is doing configuration changes on upgrade though14:15
Keybukok thanks14:15
Keybuk[TOPIC] Sponsoring Overview update14:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Sponsoring Overview update14:15
Keybuk[LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/14:16
MootBotLINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/14:16
Keybuka quick scan, I couldn't find anything there14:16
pittisome are already uploaded, too14:16
pitti(beta freeze, hanging in unapproved)14:16
Keybukpitti: yeah, I cross-referenced that14:16
seb128Keybuk: I don't think sponsorship is really revelant this week anyway since uploads don't go through14:16
Keybukso well done everybody!14:16
Keybuk[TOPIC] Release Status14:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Release Status14:17
Keybukpitti: over to you, the list of bugs is in the agenda (as I found them)14:17
seb128thanks to dholbach, pitti and mvo who helped on the GNOME 2.24 sponsoring14:17
* norsetto wonders what is the number between parenthesis14:17
* mvo hugs seb12814:17
seb128norsetto: the days since when the bug is waiting14:17
* seb128 hugs mvo14:17
pittiKeybuk: where is that list?14:17
norsettoseb128: ah cool14:17
pittiKeybuk: intrepid bugs, cherrypicked the desktopish ones?14:17
pittiKeybuk: from last week's release team meeting we squashed all but that fusa bug14:18
Keybukpitti: intrepid bugs, by assignee for our team14:18
Keybukpitti: anything you want to chase in this meeting, given the opportunity of everybody here?14:19
pittitedg: will bug 261084 still be on your plate after you move team?14:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 261084 in gnome-power-manager "Suspends again right after resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26108414:19
Keybukit will14:19
Keybukwe will always have a relationship between the desktop and experience teams, where features they wish to land will require co-ordination14:19
Keybukand we will always be assigning bugs back to them to be fixed14:20
Keybukand many of those may be Release Critical14:20
Keybukand almost certainly will involve upgrades14:20
pittiotherwise, the only thing that currently nags me is ekiga 3.014:20
Keybuksomeone asked me about gimp14:20
pittithe PPA packages are far from any working state14:20
kwwiithe new gimp is probably important, very noticeable14:20
tedgpitti: Yeah, I'm not 100% on that one yet.  It's not obvious that it's GPM's fault, but it might be the easiest place to fix it.14:20
MacSlow2.6.0 is out yeah!14:20
seb128the new version is available since yesterday14:21
MacSlowseb128, we need 2.6.0 ;-)14:21
seb128and intrepid is frozen for beta14:21
pittiso ATM I'm inclined to refuse ekiga 3.0, unless someone will actually come along and package it14:21
MacSlowseb128, don't worry ... I'm happy compiling it myself14:21
Keybukalso tedg will continue to help maintain some packages for at least the time being since we have nobody else to hand them to yet ;)14:21
seb128if users could something wait before making a fuss about upgrades when they can't be done anyway14:21
pittiMacSlow: same problem, I think; we need someone investing the time to package it properly14:21
Keybuk(he also may want to keep them to keep his hand in ;P)14:21
* tedg found a PPA for GIMP 2.6 ~c-korn :)14:21
pittisince I don't like to deviate much of our team's time away from bug fixes14:21
MacSlowtedg is the man of the minute :)14:22
seb128pitti: I really think we should have ekiga 3.0 and gimp 2.6 in intrepid14:22
tedgMacSlow: Actually have to give credit to _MMA_, he sent it to me.14:22
pittiseb128: I agree that it would be nice as well, but it will probably require two full mandays to get ekiga14:22
MacSlowtedg, ok14:22
seb128intrepid is not a lts and that's something quite some users will be wanting14:22
MacSlowgimp 2.6.0 would be very wicked to be in intrepid14:23
* tedg is was hoping for something > 8-bit per channel in 2.6 :(14:23
pittiany packaging volunteers? :-)14:23
seb128MacSlow: agreed and I'll do the update, but it's available for one day and intrepid is frozen14:23
seb128pitti: I'll do gimp, not sure about ekiga14:23
seb128pitti: apparently gimp require some MIR action thoguh14:23
* Riddell throws krita at tedg 14:24
MacSlowseb128, so it'll stay in a PPA or move to universe?14:24
MacSlowseb128, or is it in main?14:24
seb128MacSlow: neither of those14:24
tedgRiddell: Have you seen the download size?  It pulls in these crazy large libraries that I don't have installed, QT, KDELibs, etc. :)14:24
seb128it'll go to main14:24
MacSlowRiddell, hehe14:24
pittiseb128: yay bigger CDs :)14:25
seb128pitti: those might be optional14:25
seb128see bug #27683914:25
ubottuLaunchpad bug 276839 in gimp "please update Gimp to v2.6.0" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27683914:25
MacSlowthe ever demanding community14:25
seb128Keybuk: ok, let's move on, the gimp update is on my list already14:26
Keybuk[TOPIC] Any other business14:26
MootBotNew Topic:  Any other business14:26
kwwiiwe have to remove the gnome themes package14:26
seb128no we don't?14:27
kwwiiso I will be talking to seb128 and mvo about how to do that correctly with updating and all14:27
kwwiiseb128: trust me, we do :-)14:27
seb128there is no correct way to do that14:27
seb128some people might be using those themes14:27
seb128we should just stop installing it by default14:27
seb128but we don't want to remove it on upgrade14:27
kwwiiseb128: the current suggestion is to hack the thing into two pieces and add the ugly-themes part to anyone updating14:27
kwwiiso if you update you get effectively the same thing as before, just in two packages instead of one14:28
mptPlease don't actually call it ugly-themes14:28
seb128the split is what I suggested14:28
mptWe've had enough headaches with ugly codecs :-)14:28
seb128(not the name)14:28
tedgmpt: gnome-themes-looser-artists?14:28
kwwiimpt: lol, no worries14:28
seb128mpt: in this case they really consider those ugly apparently ;-)14:28
kwwiignome-theme-extras or such14:28
mvowhat is the issue?14:28
seb128there is already an -extras14:28
seb128mvo: some themes are ugly apparently and we want to stop shipping those by default14:29
kwwiimvo: I wanted to talk to you about how to make the updater do it right14:29
seb128that's easy for the upgrade14:29
seb128but that's another slap in the face for people using other upgrade tools14:29
pedro_which themes? Mist, Crux and such?14:30
kwwiipedro_: yes, think along those lines (although mist is quite popular it seems)14:30
tedgOh, we should increase kwwii's mail: I like the name "gnome-themes-that-kwwii-doesnt-like"14:30
pedro_yes it's that's why i was asking which ones14:30
mvoand we would just ignore if people are using them (because they like ugly) and that they drop to somehthing else after the upgrade ?14:31
seb128mvo: the idea would be to install ugly for people upgrading but not on new installs14:31
kwwiimvo: the idea is that they will get the extra package with the "ugly" themes in it if they upgrade, no matter whether they really use one of the themes or not14:31
mvoright, so we just keep them in gnome-themes (or were they are now) and have a new package "gnome-themes-nice" that is then seeded to ubuntu-desktop?14:32
mvoand gnome-themes is simply unseeded?14:32
kwwiimvo: no idea, that is why I wanted to discuss it with you :-)14:32
mvothan people upgrading keep their theme but new installs only get the shinny ones14:32
kwwiiright, that sounds correct14:32
seb128mvo: we were going to go the other way around, gnome-themes and gnome-themes-ugly14:32
mvook, I think that should work14:32
mdzKeybuk: (phone)14:33
seb128mvo: I don't think we should rename gnome-themes14:33
kwwiiwe an call it gnome-themes-legacy or such14:33
norsettomvo, seb128: why not gnome-themes-legacy indtead of -ugly14:33
kwwiihehe, exactly :-)14:33
seb128maybe gnome-themes should be a dummy package depends on gnome-themes-good and gnome-themes-ugly14:33
* norsetto high five kwwii14:33
seb128and install gnome-themes-good by default only14:34
kwwiiseb128: whatever you think would be the best long-term solution14:34
norsettoseb128: just drop the -good/-ugly dichotomy, some people can find it offending14:34
seb128I want "apt-get install gnome-themes" to install what upstream call gnome-themes14:34
seb128we are in for upstream conflicts otherwise14:35
mvolets discuss in what direction the rename should happen offline - I think we agree on the general principle :)14:35
seb128norsetto: the names were not a suggestion but an example14:35
mvoseb128: aha, I think you misread my proposal, that was my intention. gnome-themes stay, we get a new gnome-theme-ubuntu that is now default dep of ubuntu-desktop14:35
seb128mvo: ok, we agree then ;-)14:35
Keybukit sounds like you're agreeing with each other ;)14:36
kwwiiright, ok, I will stay in touch with seb128 and mvo about this14:36
Keybukkwwii: great14:36
Keybukok, any other any other business?14:36
* mvo high fives seb12814:36
kwwiitomorrow is a holiday in germany14:36
seb128Keybuk: it's late in the cycle but I'm wondering if we should drop nautilus-cd-burner from the default installation14:36
Riddellkwwii: octoberfest?14:36
pittiGerman unity14:36
seb128Keybuk: that can wait next cycle though14:37
Riddellsame thing :)14:37
MacSlowRiddell, actually the "Oktoberfest" is already in full swing in bavaria ... started well before october :)14:37
Hobbseeno...you can't get rid of the nice themes!14:37
Keybukseb128: I'd vaguely say next cycle at this point14:37
MacSlowRiddell, kwwii should know he lives there :)14:37
Keybukdropping things after beta seems wrong14:38
seb128Keybuk: ok, good enough, it let us time to discuss it14:38
mptdropping nautilus-cd-burner seems wrong too ;-)14:38
seb128it just seems to not bring a lot since brasero work better in most cases nowadays14:38
MacSlowseb128, isn't there a nautlius "plugin" for brasero?14:39
MacSlowkind of replacing nautilus-cd-burner?14:39
* MacSlow looks it up again14:39
MacSlowseb128, I vaguely remember something along those lines14:39
seb128MacSlow: nautilus-cd-burner doesn't do a lot14:39
seb128basically it means we have to maintain two software to do the same things14:40
seb128users are confused that the places menus open a different software which has limited capabilities14:40
* mvo always liked n-c-d for its simplicity14:40
mvobut I see the point14:41
seb128mvo: brasero --data is basically as simple14:41
MacSlowseb128, ah... wasn't really a plugin ... brasero just can open up a n-c-b project14:42
mptThis is an annoying example of upstreams doing completely the wrong thing14:42
seb128mpt: why?14:42
seb128mpt: the issue is that nautilus is a file manager, it's not something where you can easily add audio project or video DVD concepts14:43
mptnautilus-cd-burner doesn't have the features that Brasero does because, why, they want to keep it simple? And therefore we're pressured to ship Brasero *instead of* nautilus-cd-burner, thus leaving the overall interface more complicated and inconsistent than if the features had been added to nautilus-cd-burner in the first place.14:43
pittiit seems to me that the people who complain are really the power users who actually care about doing weird things with CDs14:44
kwwiipitti: full ack, I doubt most people do more than burn music or data14:45
pittipersonally I never needed anything else than nautilus and n-c-b for data burning14:45
seb128pitti: not only, n-c-b doesn't give you an indication of how much data you selected and how much your media contains for example14:45
MacSlowpitti, burning ISO-images only work with brasero14:45
seb128nautilus is a file-manager14:45
pittiMacSlow: hm? right-click, burn, done14:45
seb128it doesn't make it easy to add nice widgets in random location for such things14:45
MacSlowpitti, that always hoses my CD-Rs14:46
pittiseb128: don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating to drop brasero or so :)14:46
seb128MacSlow: that's called a bug14:46
pittijust defending n-c-b a bit14:46
seb128pitti: I'm just saying that people will advocate that brasero --data is not so much complicated that n-c-b14:46
seb128and has some extra nice indicators and features14:46
seb128and they have a point14:46
seb128but anyway not something for this cyle14:47
seb128and not really a meeting agenda item14:48
mptyes, sorry for the sidetrack14:48
MootBotMeeting finished at 08:48.14:48
Keybukthanks all14:48
kwwiithanks, bye14:48
pittithanks all!14:48
pittilet's get that beta out and squash bugs by the dozen14:49
* pitti ^5s the desktoppers14:49
* mpt cheers the programmers14:49
pittiMacSlow: it's pretty useful, isn't it?14:50
MacSlowpitti, ehm... hm... at least it's not as bare-bone as dbus-* :)14:50
MacSlowdoh... screw iwl394514:51
=== davmor2 is now known as davmor_biab
persiaOK.  Who's here for the Java meeting?14:59
persiaOK.  We're not all here, but there's a few of us :)15:03
persiaAgenda doesn't have anything special on it, so we'll just hit the roadmap.15:03
persiarobilad seems absent, but being this close to release, new tasks aren't as essential.15:03
persiaslytherin: Are we all done with MoveToUniverse, or are there a couple still blocked?15:04
slytherinpersia: Nothing blocked, just few bugs pending due to beta freeze. No archive changes are being processed.15:04
persiaslytherin: OK, so we're expecting everything to be processed post-beta?  Everything is in the archive-admin queue now?15:05
persiaAre there any approvals outstanding?15:05
slytherinpersia: Just one, bug #27708815:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 277088 in libjrosetta-java "Please move package to universe" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27708815:05
slytherinI forgot to log the bug after the sync request got processed15:06
persiaOK.  I'll double-check, and ACK that.  Does it need -release approval?15:06
slytherinpersia: Don't think so.15:07
persiaSounds good then.  After that, I suppose we're basically blocked until the autoimporter starts, right?15:07
slytherinpersia: yes15:08
slytherinBy the way, there is another sync bug which I am not sure if it will require -release approval. But the package is not moving to multiverse. The sync is just to fix problem on powerpc. bug #27710215:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 277102 in libjogl-java "Please sync libjogl-java 1.1.1-2 (multiverse) from Debian unstable (non-free)." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27710215:08
persiaThat oughtn't require motu-release.  Added to my list.15:10
persiaAnything else?15:10
slytherinNothing. Now I am mainly looking into any easy FTBFS fixes.15:10
persiaKoon: How is the progress with the new improved maven plan?15:10
Koonhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Specs/MavenSupportSpec is finalized, I welcome reviews and/or official approval15:10
slytherinKoon: You may want to add 'tomcat 6' in the section of 'On the server' of beta announcement. :-)15:14
Koonslytherin: where is it ?15:15
persiaKoon: Looks good to me, and seems to cover all the points.  You'll need to assign an approver if you want official approval.15:16
Koonpersia: any suggestion ?15:17
persiaI'd check with doko, and see if he's willing to be the approver.  If not, could be me, I suppose.15:17
KoonOK, I'll check with him15:18
persiaFrom reviewing that, it looks like implementation for jaunty ought be fairly straightforward, and we can probably even have a lot of it done in coordination with pkg-java.15:19
persiaKoon: Anything else?15:19
slytherinKoon: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/BetaAnnouncement15:19
Koonslytherin: looks like tomcat is already there, no ?15:20
persiaOK.  Anyone have anything else to raise today?  Anything critical for release?15:20
slytherinKoon: right. I just saw the Other section.15:21
slytherinpersia: do you have any idea if doko plans to update openjdk? We are currently using beta release.15:22
persiaslytherin: I haven't heard anything specific.  I know the target was to try to get something that passed the complaince test.  I don't think the version number was consdiered as important.  I haven't run the complaince test to know if we're there yet.15:22
persiaI think that team usually meets in some hours (maybe 6 or 8 or something), and it may be discussed then, but I don't remember the schedule exactly, and the room scheduling, while getting better, isn't fixed entirely yet.15:24
slytherinOk. So there is nothing else form my side.15:28
persiaRIght.  Ending the meeting then :)  Have a great week!15:31
=== davmor_biab is now known as davmor2
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