[01:07] <Rinchen> she's away for a bit
[01:13] <kiko-zzz> but ask Rinchen and me cuz after all we have no life
[01:13] <Rinchen> Launchpad IS life
[01:13] <kiko-zzz> well, that too
[01:21]  * wgrant wonders how the Freeing roadmap is.
[01:22] <kiko-zzz> it's long
[01:23] <kiko-zzz> and full of fucking problems
[01:23] <kiko-zzz> luckily WE PERSEVERE
[01:24] <ajmitch> it probably drives poor kiko to drink
[01:24] <jml> ajmitch: so, based on my day-to-day experience, it drives kiko to _work_
[01:24] <ajmitch> oh dear
[01:28] <wgrant> kiko-zzz: Oh dear. Big problems?
[01:28] <wgrant> (you're sleep-IRCing again. Bad kiko)
[01:31] <kiko-zzz> wgrant, nothing insurmountable. just some hard decisions and then Work.
[01:32] <kiko-zzz> need to figure out what to do with some of the blocks so they don't conflict with customer requirements
[01:32] <kiko-zzz> get rid of some other proprietary bits we can't redistribute in the tree
[01:32] <kiko-zzz> I will release a roadmap later this month
[01:32] <wgrant> I wondered if there would be bits like that.
[01:33] <wgrant> Release as in to us mere mortals?
[01:37] <zookofamilytime> I still don't see any new events on my trac due to its linkage with launchpad.
[01:37] <zookofamilytime> http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe
[01:37] <zookofamilytime> Also, everyone please download Tahoe and try it out.  It is a secure distributed p2p filesystem.
[01:37] <wgrant> Won't it only do things if bugs have been linked?
[01:37] <zookofamilytime> It's awesome.
[01:38] <zookofamilytime> So, then please report some bugs in Tahoe, using launchpad, and see what happens.  ;-)
[01:38] <spiv> The pycon talk about it was certainly awesome.
[01:42] <zookofamilytime> Glad you liked it!
[01:42] <zookofamilytime> That talk was Brian Warner's doing.
[01:42] <zookofamilytime> I'm about to give a talk of my own: http://allmydata.org/~zooko/lafs.pdf
[01:42] <zookofamilytime> away I go to family time
[02:06] <radix> Ok, so I'm building a package which build-depends on a package that's already in my PPA, but it's saying it can't find it
[02:06] <radix> so I guess I'm doing something wrong
[02:08] <persia> radix: Are the binaries in your PPA as well as the source?  Other than that, it's hard to guess what might be the issue.  Maybe a versioned dependency?
[02:08] <radix> persia: yes, libglktermw-dev built successfully, then I uploaded glulxe, and it couldn't find it
[02:08] <radix> my log is at http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18146684/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.glulxe_043-0ubuntu1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz
[02:08] <wgrant> radix: How long between the build completion and other upload?
[02:08] <radix> wgrant: not very long
[02:09] <wgrant> radix: You might need to wait up to 20 minutes (the binaries are only published on */20)
[02:09] <radix> ok, they're there, so I'll try another build of glulxe
[02:09] <persia> radix: If you add the PPA to /etc/apt/sources.list, can you download the -dev package?
[02:09] <wgrant> Just hit "Retry build".
[02:09] <persia> (with apt-get install)
[02:09] <wgrant> Or maybe wait - but it might take a while to automatically retry.
[02:10] <radix> persia: I'm just looking at the http server now: http://ppa.launchpad.net/radix/ubuntu/pool/main/g/glktermw/
[02:10] <persia> radix: OK.  When you *know* it's published, wait a bit for for tbe buildd internal mirror to get a copy (buildds have no network access), and then click retry.
[02:10] <radix> aha
[02:11] <radix> ok
[02:11] <wgrant> Depwait builds should be automatically retried when their deps are available.
[02:11] <radix> oh, sweet
[02:11] <wgrant> I'm not sure how frequent that is for PPAs, however.
[02:12] <radix> I guess I won't hit that button then
[02:13] <radix> I don't see any indication that they'll be retried, but I guess I'll wait a while longer
[02:13] <wgrant> There hasn't been a publisher for 13 minutes.
[02:13] <wgrant> There's little point retrying before another publisher run.
[02:14] <radix> that's good to know
[02:15] <radix> this is the first time I've used PPA, and the only docs I've found are https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA , so I'm still pretty clueless
[02:16] <wgrant> That build probably only started a couple of minutes too early.
[02:16] <wgrant> It might actually work if your retry it now.
[02:17]  * radix pushes the buttons :)
[02:18]  * Hobbsee spins the dials
[02:18]  * wgrant turns everything off.
[02:20]  * Hobbsee runs 240v through wgrant.
[02:20] <Hobbsee> voom!
[02:20] <wgrant> I wouldn't voom if you put 40000V through me.
[02:21] <wgrant> Or is it vroom? I forget.
[02:21] <jml> hmm, a contested assertion
[02:21] <jml> try to try Science!
[02:21] <jml> "time to try"
[02:21] <radix> "try to try" works too
[02:21]  * wgrant fails to try.
[02:22] <Hobbsee> vroom, iirc.
[02:22] <jml> radix: not quite as well though
[02:22] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Probably so.
[02:39] <wgrant> radix: Well, it worked, but failed.
[02:42] <radix> wgrant: yeah, but for a reason I know how to deal with :-)
[02:42] <radix> Thanks very much for the help
[02:42] <wgrant> np
[02:43] <radix> I should really set up a barebones VM so I can more easily spot these build-deps errors
[02:43] <wgrant> Why do you need a VM?
[02:43] <radix> or a chroot, whatever
[02:43] <wgrant> We use either pbuilder or schroot.
[02:44] <radix> I'll look into those
[04:39] <jtv> helloooo launchpad!
[04:41] <Hobbsee> hey jtv!
[04:42]  * wgrant escapes
[04:44] <jtv> hi Hobbsee
[04:44] <jtv> Hobbsee: what did I do to scare wgrant?
[04:44] <Hobbsee> jtv: i'm not sure.  But he just had to deal with an incredibly dim user, and has been dealing with the forums, so he was probably already highly traumatised.
[04:45] <Hobbsee> (how do people know about #ubuntu-bugs, #ubuntu-quality, etc, yet not know how to install a program with ubuntu?)
[04:46] <wgrant> Selective cluelessness.
[04:46] <jtv> Hobbsee: don't ask me.  I've been dealing with some guy who uses my mailing lists and bug tracker to ask for help with issues like "I'm using your C++ library and I'm getting these link errors about missing functions"
[04:46] <jtv> Where the issue is of course simply that he's not linking to the library.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> jtv: classy.
[04:46] <Hobbsee> yes, of course.
[04:46] <jtv> Or "I'm getting an error, something about a variable definition.  Why?"
[04:47] <wgrant> Some of the stuff in the Programming Talk subforum of ubuntuforums.org is great.
[04:47] <jtv> When I get him to tell me the actual error messages, it's "I'm getting this error, what's wrong with my program?"
[04:47] <jtv> wgrant: ah, examples!
[05:00] <jml> jtv: "give me a minimal, runnable example that reproduces the problem" is my favourite way of dealing with those.
[05:03] <jtv> jml: In this case of mine I've moved on to "I can help you solve your problem, but you must put in some effort—such as bothering to read the error message."
[05:04] <jml> jtv: sucks :(
[05:05] <jtv> jml: I once spent time explaining that to someone, and the guy told me what an idiot I was for wasting my time on that.
[05:05] <jtv> jml: we do get some entertaining stories out of it...
[05:05] <jml> jtv: explaining "reading the error message"?
[05:06] <jtv> jml: and "produce a minimal example" and such
[05:06] <jml> jtv: ahh ok.
[05:06] <jml> jtv: well when they do that I reach for my ignore gun.
[05:07] <jtv> jml: and resolve not to spend so much time on it next time?
[05:07] <jml> jtv: well, this is mostly in an IRC context
[05:08] <jml> jtv: so I say, "can you please paste a minimal, runnable example to <pastebin>" and then generally don't actually bother elaborating until they do so (or confess that this is proprietary code they are being paid to work on or what have you)
[05:09] <jtv> jml: and on IRC I suppose the ignoring is more work.  :-)
[05:09] <jml> jtv: /ignore <foo> all
[05:09] <jml> jtv: also, having op privileges is nice :)
[05:10] <jtv> jml: ahhhh  :)
[05:39] <Ursinha> me again
[05:43] <jml> hi
[05:49] <jdrake> I have specified a milestone called 'demo1a' and pushed some updates to a related branch and tagged it demo1a. How can I get the demo1a milestone to be connected with the specific revision?
[05:54] <Ursinha> jdrake, with the specific revision you've pushed to lp? I'm not sure you can do such association
[05:54] <Ursinha> bzr revision, there is
[05:55] <jdrake> What is the point of saying a milestone on lp? What does it link with to have any meaning?
[05:56] <Ursinha> jdrake, you can associate bugs and blueprints to it
[05:57] <Ursinha> so, targeting these items to a milestone, you can keep track of what is supposed to be released
[05:58] <jdrake> But you can't associate actual code to it?
[06:00] <Ursinha> you can associate a branch to a milestone, but not a specific revision
[06:00] <wgrant> I thought branches were associated with series, and releases could have tarballs.
[06:00] <wgrant> Releases should really be able to have a bzr tag attached to them, IMO.
[06:01] <Ursinha> wgrant, you're right, sorry, it's a series that can be associated to a branch
[06:02] <Ursinha> you clearly have much more experience on LP than me :)
[06:03] <jdrake> ok, I am confused here.
[06:03] <Ursinha> wgrant, when I said that you can keep track of what you'll release, I use the milestone as a "release target", as we do in LP
[06:03] <jdrake> So I have a milestone, can I get something associated with this tag 'demo1a'/revision 3, that can be a release of some kind?
[06:03] <Ursinha> jdrake, let me try to clarify, and wgrant can correct me if I'm wrong
[06:03] <wgrant> Ursinha: Right, Launchpad fails the dogfood test. Launchpad developers don't use Launchpad properly.
[06:04] <wgrant> Probably because milestones don't make much sense for Launchpad.
[06:04] <wgrant> Well, some milestones should be able to be marked as being releases, IMO.
[06:04] <Ursinha> jdrake, no, you can't associate a specific revision to something in LP
[06:04] <wgrant> Whereas at the moment they are separate concepts.
[06:04] <Ursinha> jdrake, but yes, you can associate a whole branch
[06:06] <jdrake> That seems buggered
[06:07] <wgrant> It makes sense to be able to associate revisions or tags with releases, and it makes sense to have the concept of releases and milestones merged. Neither of those are currently possible.
[06:07] <wgrant> jdrake: At the moment, you can upload files to a release for users to download.
[06:07] <Ursinha> jdrake, what I'm saying is that the smaller unit of code you can associate to something is a branch
[06:07] <Ursinha> jdrake, if you want to "release" something that belongs to a specific revision, you may package that somehow and release it
[06:07] <Ursinha> as wgrant just said
[06:08] <Ursinha> but all suggestions are welcoe
[06:08] <Ursinha> *welcome
[06:10] <Ursinha> wgrant, why you say milestones don't make much sense for LP?
[06:13] <wgrant> Ursinha: LP 2.1.10 is a release.
[06:13] <wgrant> But in the Launchpad webapp it is a milestone.
[06:13] <Ursinha> wgrant, it's a milestone to a release
[06:13] <wgrant> I think 'release' should just be an extra flag on a milestone, as that's all it is.
[06:13] <Ursinha> milestone is a point to achieve
[06:13] <Ursinha> which is not wrong in the sense we use, I think
[06:14] <jml> Ursinha: we don't use releases though.
[06:14] <wgrant> If Launchpad were open, Launchpad itself 2.1.10 would have downloadable files. Thus it doesn't make sense in the current model.
[06:14] <Ursinha> maybe we should be more clear in using releases
[06:14] <Ursinha> jml, yes, faster than me
[06:14] <wgrant> 2.0 should be a series, 2.1.10 should be a milestone with the release flag.
[06:15] <beuno> wgrant, the whole release/milestone/series is having a makeover
[06:15] <beuno> "it's in the works"
[06:15] <wgrant> beuno: Oh, good to know. What's changing?
[06:15] <beuno> they are a bit confusing
[06:15] <wgrant> Is the design public?
[06:15] <wgrant> I think bzr shows how it's broken.
[06:16] <wgrant> Their milestones inevitably duplicate their releases.
[06:16] <beuno> wgrant, I don't really remember right now, but, if IIRC, series and milestones will be collapsed unto one
[06:16] <wgrant> And I think they make rather good use of the current functionality.
[06:16] <wgrant> beuno: That makes approximately 0 sense. Do you mean releases and milestones?
[06:16] <beuno> or milestone will become releases
[06:16] <beuno> it's 2am
[06:16] <wgrant> Heh.
[06:16] <beuno> so I'm a bit off  :)
[06:16] <wgrant> That's what I would have suggested.
[06:16] <Ursinha> hey beuno
[06:16] <Ursinha> you there
[06:17] <beuno> hi Ursinha
[06:17] <beuno> nope, not here
[06:17] <beuno> :p
[06:17] <Ursinha> :P
[06:18] <beuno> wgrant, something with series will happen as well
[06:18] <beuno> because it's confusing right now
[06:18] <wgrant> beuno: I bet we're going to have this sprung on us and it will be completely broken.
[06:18] <beuno> you have to create a series to create a release to add download files
[06:18] <beuno> wgrant, I bet it won't be completely broken, and it will rock your socks off
[06:18] <beuno> :)
[06:19]  * beuno is a bit fuzzy on the details, and is very very very tired
[06:19] <wgrant> I think that the series data model shouldn't change, but they should cease to be explicitly managed.
[06:20] <wgrant> ie. when creating a release it should ask you to either select an existing series or create a new one.
[06:20] <beuno> and who said it wasn't going to work that way?
[06:20] <wgrant> You learn to doubt Launchpad design after a while, I'm afraid.
[06:20] <beuno> I haven't
[06:20] <beuno> and I've been around for a while...
[06:21] <beuno> aaaaaanyway
[06:21] <beuno> this was fun
[06:21] <wgrant> Sleep.
[06:21] <beuno> but it's way past my bedtime
[06:21] <beuno> g'night!
[06:22] <wgrant> Night!
[09:35] <siretart> any lp dev around that could edit a project's ownership?
[09:37] <adeuring> siretart: I'll ask who can do it.
[09:37] <wgrant> siretart: You'll need an ~admin unless it's owned by Registry.
[09:38] <stdin> siretart: probably best to file a question at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[09:38] <siretart> filed as https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/47001
[09:38]  * wgrant agrees with stdin.
[09:38]  * siretart hopes it is filed in the right place
[09:39] <wgrant> adeuring: So you are actually going to have somebody assigned to respond to things in the channel now? This is good news.
[09:41] <adeuring> wgrant: since two week or so there should be a developer "on call" here. Excat times depend on where the person lives, of course ;)
[09:41] <adeuring> wgrant: see the channel topic ;)
[09:41] <adeuring> siretart: yes, a question is exactly right
[09:41] <wgrant> adeuring: It doesn't explain the purpose of the community contact.
[09:42] <siretart> adeuring: danke! :-)
[09:42] <wgrant> And I've not seen anything more about the existence of the community contact, and I watch LP things fairly closely.
[09:42] <adeuring> wgrant: yeah, we have been parhaps a bit too silent about it...
[09:43] <wgrant> s/a bit too/completely/
[09:43] <wgrant> Anyway, it is a welcome change.
[11:19] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, ping
[11:19] <mrevell> hi kiko-zzz
[11:20] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, wgrant has a good point -- we haven't told anybody about CHR
[11:20] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, and I was going to ask you if we could extend management of launchpad-users to the CHR
[11:20] <kiko-zzz> wanna pile that on the stack and clear it with ole jojo?
[11:21] <mrevell> kiko-zzz: Interesting you should mention that. The releases team and I were discussing this yesterday and I'm going to blog about CHR today. I was wondering if we want to put the name of the current CHR person in this channel's topic.
[11:21] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, well, Ursula and joey did that yesterday, and I think it should become standard yeah
[11:21] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, but I was more suggesting we haven't said anything about it on news.launchpad.net or help
[11:21] <mrevell> kiko-zzz: Great, I'll add it to the CHR process page, along with launchpad-users management
[11:22] <wgrant> Excellent.
[11:22] <kiko-zzz> mrevell, what do we do with the password I wonder
[11:22] <wgrant> (what does CHR stand for?)
[11:22] <kiko-zzz> community help rotation
[11:22] <wgrant> Aha.
[11:22] <kiko-zzz> we are full of acronyms this year
[11:22] <wgrant> Thankyou for introducing it.
[11:23] <kiko-zzz> wgrant, you think it's working out well?
[11:24] <wgrant> kiko-zzz: Having somebody that people can ask, and reducing response latency, is always a good thing.
[11:24] <kiko-zzz> yeah, we're still figuring out how to do it, but I agree
[11:26] <wgrant> Support latency has frankly been awful at times.
[11:28] <kiko-zzz> yeah, it's because we don't actually have support personnel. well, didn't! :)
[11:28] <wgrant> Yep.
[11:29] <kiko-zzz> wgrant, hey, I had a thought. maybe you want to apply for a CHR post? :)
[11:29] <wgrant> Hm?
[11:30] <kiko-zzz> wgrant, hmmmm? :)
[12:53] <zooko> Good morning!
[12:53] <zooko>  
[12:53]  * zooko checks his trac to see if launchpad pushed any updates into it while he slept.
[13:04] <siretart> adeuring: what part of launchpad is responsible for this page: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/i386/libquicktime1/2:1.0.2+debian-2build2
[13:04] <siretart> adeuring: is that soyuz?
[13:04] <wgrant> That's Soyuz.
[13:04] <adeuring> siretart, wgrant: right
[13:07] <siretart> thanks. bug filed
[13:08] <Hobbsee> yay CHR!  Will it cover !european workdays, though?
[13:09] <adeuring> Hobbsee: well, today, since I live in Germany. On other days people from other parts of the world may be on duty
[13:10] <Hobbsee> adeuring: so, not most of the time.  Right.
[13:10] <Hobbsee> adeuring: what do you do on launchpad?  Are you new?
[13:11] <laga> wait. i didn't get that. you are on duty because it's not a work day for you?
[13:11] <adeuring> Hobbsee: I'm working since ~1 year on Lauanchpad; mostly on a hardware database.
[13:11] <Hobbsee> adeuring: ahhh.  I'd not seen the nick before.  Hardware database for distributions, or?
[13:12] <wgrant> adeuring: Are we going to be able to get useful data out of that at some point?
[13:12] <wgrant> The raw stuff is there, but that's not entirely useful...
[13:13] <adeuring> Hobbsee: Distributions: yes and no; the idea is to collect data from Ubuntu users, and to get for example an idea how many devices (say, Lexmark printer 1234) are in use; links to bugs etc.
[13:13] <adeuring> Hobbsee: We'll have soon an API for the HW database
[13:14] <Hobbsee> adeuring: ah, right.  Cool!
[13:14] <adeuring> Hobbsee: But running the data collection client (hwtest-gtk) is technically not restricted to Ubuntu
[13:15] <Hobbsee> adeuring: indeed.
[13:15] <zooko> Where is this database?  I want to see it!
[13:15] <adeuring> Hobbsee: but I am not aware of any other distros using this program
[13:15] <Hobbsee> adeuring: no, it seems they have their own.  Or at least some of them
[13:16] <adeuring> Hobbsee: right; collecting hardware data became fashionable during the last two years or so ;)
[13:16] <Hobbsee> adeuring: heh, yes :)
[13:17]  * wgrant is yet to find traversers other than +fingerprint under /+hwdb. Are there any?
[13:20] <adeuring> wgrant: nothing really interesting; but you can look for example to lp.net/~your-account/+hwdb-submissions
[13:21] <wgrant> adeuring: Right, that's the other I knew about.
[13:21] <adeuring> wgrant: wait a bit and we'll have a bit more to present
[13:21] <wgrant> Why are there so many anonymous submissions? Isn't one required to enter a valid Launchpad email address at the end of the process?
[13:22] <adeuring> wgrant: There are many more Ubuntu users than Launchpad users, and we did not want to require an LP account for the submissions.
[13:22] <adeuring> wgrant: But as soon as somebody registers an LP account with the email address from a submissions, he'll own that submission
[13:22] <wgrant> adeuring: Hmm, it looked to me like it needed an LP account. But maybe I misread.
[13:23] <wgrant> Aha.
[13:39] <bigjools> siretart: FWIW, you can file bugs against "Launchpad" and they will be triaged and moved to the right place
[13:42] <morgs> I'm trying to copy a package in my PPA from hardy to intrepid, and I get "The following source cannot be copied: sugar-artwork 0.82.0-1ubuntu1~ppa1 in hardy (same version already has published binaries in the destination archive)" - even though it doesn't exist for intrepid yet.
[13:42] <morgs> https://launchpad.net/~morgan/+archive
[13:43] <cprov> morgs: https://edge.launchpad.net/~morgan/+archive?field.name_filter=sugar-artwork&field.status_filter=published
[13:44] <morgs> cprov: hey - so can I copy it to intrepid?
[13:44] <cprov> morgs: it was already built and published for hardy, you can't rebuilt it for intrepid. You have to copy the exiting binaries too.
[13:44] <morgs> oh I see
[13:45] <morgs> If I want to build it for intrepid, do I have to reupload?
[13:45] <cprov> morgs: no, when copying, select the option (radio-button) to include the binaries.
[13:47] <cprov> morgs: and *hey*, didn't notice it was you Morgan.
[13:48] <morgs> cprov: yeah Celso :) Nice to be using soyuz...
[13:48] <morgs> cprov: OK, that works, but does the package actually get rebuilt on intrepid at some point?
[13:48] <cprov> morgs: yeah, great to see olpc stuff in the PPA too.
[13:49] <cprov> morgs: no, you will be using the binaries built in hardy in intrepid clients.
[13:50] <cprov> morgs: do you have any new library in intrepid ?
[13:51] <morgs> cprov: hmm, I actually want to get the packages built on intrepid too (my goal is to get a feature freeze exception to sync from debian where these packages come from), so I'll reupload. I did that for sugar - the ~ppa2 I uploaded for intrepid.
[13:52]  * wgrant dreams of a "Backport" button in the web UI.
[13:52]  * laga joins wgrant
[13:52] <cprov> morgs: right, when you really need to rebuild to a new series you need a new source.
[13:52] <morgs> cprov: OK thanks!
[13:52] <laga> just copying packages to another series actually sounds broken. there is no dependency checking AFAIK
[13:53] <Hobbsee> wgrant: no you don't :)
[13:53] <wgrant> laga: We do it all the time in Ubuntu...
[13:53] <laga> wgrant: without a rebuild?
[13:53] <wgrant> laga: Yes. Or the buildds would be even more angry.
[13:54] <wgrant> laga: Where do you think we get the binaries to start a new distroseries?
[13:54] <laga> without dependency checking? it surely breaks for dpkg-shlibdeps
[13:54] <laga> .. stuff
[13:54] <laga> wgrant: ah, that's not a backport.
[13:54] <wgrant> laga: It's a forward-port without rebuild, right.
[13:55] <cprov> laga: exactly, copying binaries over is more common (and right) than you think.
[13:55] <morgs> well, your first build of the toolchain on a new distroseries requires something to build it with...
[13:55] <wgrant> We carry many binaries from Warty.
[13:55] <wgrant> Copying backwards sometimes makes sense.
[13:55] <wgrant> Not always.
[13:55] <wgrant> But people should be smart enough to check this.
[13:55] <cprov> laga: but I'm not saying we don't have to rebuild in some cases, forward (new build-deps) or backwards (backports).
[13:55] <wgrant> morgs: We carry over the entire archive (except for partner... or is there a bug on that?)
[13:55] <laga> forward-ports to a completely new series are a different thing then letting joe sixpack copy packages in their PPA ;)
[13:56] <wgrant> Joe Sixpack should be allowed to shoot himself in the foot and learn from mistakes, I think. It's nothing particularly damaging.
[13:56] <cprov> laga: yes, and it doesn't mean that plain-copy isn't necessary.
[13:56] <Hobbsee> wgrant: but why are they allowed to with removing packages?
[13:57] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Because version ratcheting is good. In some cases.
[13:57] <wgrant> Just not those that Ubuntu people are more likely to use.
[13:58] <laga> alright. i'm convinced.
[13:58]  * wgrant puts away the brainwashing gear.
[13:59] <siretart> bigjools: thanks! i've noticed that soyuz alone has about 130 untriaged bugs, and I wanted to spare you some triaging work
[13:59] <bigjools> siretart: they all need triaging regardless of where they start :)
[13:59] <Hobbsee> wgrant: occasionally.  but it does seem to confuse people
[13:59] <bigjools> but thanks for the thought!
[13:59] <wgrant> Hobbsee: Confusing people is good... we don't want easily confused people to be publishing packages for the world, do we?
[14:00] <Hobbsee> wgrant: that's a point
[15:03] <radix> interesting, does uploading something to a PPA automatically create /ubuntu/+source/<pkg> ?
[15:04] <bigjools> no, that's separate
[15:04] <cprov> radix: no, the domains are separate.
[15:04] <radix> because I notice that glulxe and glktermw now exist in /ubuntu/+source , empty
[15:04] <radix> and I'm pretty sure glktermw at least has never been packaged for ubuntu
[15:04] <Hory> radix, where's the latest incarnation of twisted reality?
[15:04] <wgrant> Are SourcePackageNames shared?
[15:04] <wgrant> s/Are/Aren't/
[15:04] <Hory> I can't find it in all of the files
[15:05] <radix> Hory: it's called "Divmod Imaginary" now
[15:05] <Hory> aha, thanks
[15:05] <cprov> radix: yes, the page is available, but it says in 'no versions available'
[15:05] <radix> cprov: yes I understand
[15:05] <radix> it seems it became available because I uploaded to a PPA
[15:06] <radix> just a curious thing I noticed :)
[15:06] <cprov> radix: right, it's not a 404 because of that.
[15:06] <wgrant> Bug #157342
[15:07] <radix> but actually, it's interesting, because it means bugs can be filed against it
[15:07] <wgrant> radix: No, that was fixed.
[15:07] <wgrant> Or it was meant to be.
[15:07] <cprov> radix: no, the bug facet of the problem was fixed.
[15:07] <radix> hum, ok, I'm just guessing based on the fact that there's a "Report a Bug" button
[15:08] <wgrant> Grr.
[15:08] <wgrant> Looks like it might have been unfixed.
[15:08]  * wgrant tries on staging.
[15:08] <wgrant> One can certainly get the form...
[15:08] <radix> otoh, it'd be nice to have a place for bugs to be filed on my PPA packages :)
[15:08] <wgrant> Ah, no, the bug is still fixed.
[15:08] <cprov> radix: ubuntu-qa guys would cry loudly, I guess.
[15:09] <radix> cprov: oh, sure, if I were to put bugs in there
[15:09]  * wgrant will gladly reject the bugs.
[15:09] <radix> cprov: is there an outstanding feature request for having bug trackers specifically for PPAs?
[15:09] <radix> that I can subscribe to?
[15:09] <cprov> radix: I think so, let me find it.
[15:11] <radix> I think I found it
[15:11] <radix> bug #234564
[15:11] <cprov> radix: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/179873, too
[15:11] <radix> ah :)
[15:11] <bigjools> dupe!
[15:13] <radix> ok, thanks guys
[15:13]  * radix is subscribed
[15:14] <radix> that'd be much better than using my blog comment section as a bug tracker :)
[15:14] <cprov> radix: wordpress guys would disagree :)
[15:14]  * radix shudders
[15:14] <radix> those guys are weird ;-)
[15:15] <cprov> ehe
[15:15] <radix> oh ho, I just used "This bug affects me" for the first time
[15:21] <james_w> does anyone know why there are apparently duplicate rows on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/9menu/+publishinghistory ?
[15:22] <james_w> there are 3 lines with "Superseded  	 Dapper   	release  	universe  	x11  	 1.8-1.1"
[15:25] <cprov> james_w: looks like broken overrides we had in the past.
[15:28] <james_w> cprov: thanks
[15:30] <jbalint> Hi, how can i delete a branch?
[15:34] <adeuring> jbalint: There is a little red button on the main page of the branch,
[15:34] <adeuring> jbalint: on right to the title
[15:35] <jbalint> aw crap , i wasnt logged in. i see it now. thanks adeuring
[15:35] <adeuring> jbalint: common problem; happens to me too ;)
[15:55] <kiko> wgrant, #1 strikes again
[15:57] <zooko> Hello.
[15:58]  * zooko checks whether launchpad has synced with http://allmydata.org/trac/tahoe .
[16:01] <kiko> hey zooko
[16:01] <kiko> gmb, zooko's lookin for ya ;)
[16:30] <rexbron> hey cody-somerville, kiko: LP blueprints is still timing out when I try and link a dep. (OOPS-1007EC106) Any idea if/when this will get looked at?
[16:30] <kiko> rexbron, uhhh uhhhhh uhhhhhh
[16:31] <kiko> matsubara, how about you escalate rexbron's problem?
[16:31] <rexbron> cool, it's not critical, but a blocker
[16:31] <matsubara> kiko-fud: will do
[16:31] <kiko-fud> matsubara, who do you think could sort us out?
[16:32] <gmb> zooko, kiko: So, we're still seeing issues trying to sync with the Tahoe Trac. It looks like a permissions problem, which is pretty weird.
[16:32] <gmb> zooko: Can you confirm that the 'launchpad' user has XML_PRC and LAUNCHPAD_RPC permissions on your Trac instance?
[16:32] <matsubara> kiko-fud: someone from registry, I think
[16:33] <matsubara> rexbron: I need to grab lunch now. I'll take a look when I get back.
[16:33] <rexbron> matsubara: np, enjoy :)
[16:36] <sylvainvh> hello do you speak french?
[16:36] <sylvainvh> i've a bug
[16:37] <adeuring> sylvainvh: sorry, unfortunately I don't speak French
[16:39] <sylvainvh> no problem
[16:39] <nealmcb> I read about launchpad bzr integration, and thought that using --fixes on my commit and then uploading to trunk would do something automatic in my new launchpad project - but now the fix is there, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/electionaudits and the bug still says "confirmed"  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/electionaudits/+bug/277341   Do I just need to wait some more, or is there something else to configure?
[16:40] <sylvainvh> when i start my computer. After the grub, i've sometime a sound and my computer crash
[16:41] <sylvainvh> it's a bug
[16:41] <zooko> Hey there gmb!
[16:42] <zooko> launchpad
[16:42] <zooko> LAUNCHPAD_RPC
[16:42] <zooko> XML_RPC
[16:42] <adeuring> sylvainvh: sorry, this channel is about Launchpad, not about Ubuntu. You might get help for example on Freendoe's #ubuntu channel
[16:42] <zooko> Yes -- the launchpad use has the LAUNCHPAD_RPC and XML_RPC permissions.
[16:42] <sylvainvh> ok, sorry
[16:43] <nealmcb> wow - good to see you here zooko!
[16:43] <adeuring> sylvainvh: no problem
[16:43] <zooko> Hi there Neal McB!  THanks for the recent e-mail.
[16:43] <nealmcb> :)
[16:46] <adeuring> nealmcb: I don't think that the bug status automatically updated
[16:46] <nealmcb> adeuring: then what is the integration about? and  I thought it worked for ubuntu
[16:47] <adeuring> nealmcb: need to check...
[16:47] <gmb> zooko: Hmm. Interesting. Okay, I'm continuing to look into this, but it actually looks at the moment as though Launchpad can't authenticate properly for some reason with the Tahoe Trac instance. I suspect it's a bug in the plugin that I've not seen before.
[16:48] <gmb> zooko: I'm going to set up a test instance and debug this. It might be worth your while to disable the plugin for now so that Launchpad can at least import statuses from the Tahoe Trac again.
[16:48] <nealmcb> http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/user-reference/bzr_man.html#bug-tracker-settings
[16:49] <zooko> Could it be that the authentication mechanism I'm using is not the one you expected?
[16:49] <zooko> There are several authentication mechanisms people can use for Trac./
[16:49] <gmb> zooko: Well, the launchpad user should be special-cased by the plugin.
[16:49] <gmb> It bypasses the standard auth mechanisms for exactly that reason.
[16:49] <zooko> I'm using apache htdigest.
[16:49] <zooko> Hm.
[16:50] <zooko> Okay I'll disable the launchpad plugin for now.
[16:50] <zooko> Please join #tahoe if you want me to try it again.
[16:50] <zooko> Thanks!
[16:50] <gmb> zooko: Thanks. Sorry about this... Isn't beta software great? Thanks for helping with testing, though ;).
[16:50] <zooko> Sure thing!  I hope you get back to me for the next round.
[16:52] <adeuring> nealmcb: just checked with other Launchpad devs: The feature does not work with Launchpad :(
[16:53] <nealmcb> adeuring: surprising -  thanks for checking!
[16:53] <rockstar> nealmcb, you can do --fixes=lp:12345 on commit
[16:54] <nealmcb> rockstar: that's what I did
[16:54] <rockstar> nealmcb, and it didn't work?
[16:54] <nealmcb> rockstar: right - like I said above
[16:55] <nealmcb> note it is a new project, not ubuntu
[16:55]  * rockstar could've sworn it worked
[16:55] <nealmcb> But I just changed it by hand myself.  Yeah - that's what I thought
[16:57]  * nealmcb is headed out now....
[17:01] <gmb> zooko: Will do.
[17:04] <mrevell> New episode of the Launchpad podcast - http://news.launchpad.net/podcast/launchpod-episode-10-api-and-bug-plugins
[17:10] <Daviey> \o/
[17:10] <laga> any chance we can get a transcript or a short summary containing the most important points?
[17:14] <exarkun> laga: but audio is such an efficient media for information transfer
[17:14] <kiko> exarkun, and don't forget you lose the colourful language and accent of the speakers
[17:15] <laga> which makes it even harder for not-so-native speakers to understand them
[17:15] <laga> maybe we could have videos where canonical employees are holding up signs with text on them ;)
[17:19] <salutis> hello guys. I have problem with build of my package in PPA. my build crashed (according to log file) but status is 'currently building'. please help!
[17:20] <cprov> salutis: url ?
[17:20] <salutis> cprov: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18164676/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.salutis-desktop_1.0.7_NEEDSBUILD.txt.gz
[17:21] <cprov> salutis: on sec, let me check.
[17:21] <salutis> cprov: thx
[17:34] <matsubara> rexbron: feel free to subscribe to bug 244957. I'll try to find someone to work on it
[17:38] <cprov> salutis: seems to be fixed and building correctly right now.
[17:40] <salutis> cprov: perfect. thank you very much!
[17:41] <kiko> cprov, what was it?
[17:41] <cprov> salutis: np, sorry for the *noise* we were migrating stuff in the ubuntu infrastructure.
[17:41] <cprov> kiko: new drescher.
[17:42] <afflux> in bug 183685 we have an outofoffice responder and two people who want to unsubscribe but ignore my explainings.
[17:43] <salutis> cprov: but I have 3 source packages and 2 binary. probably I should rebuild the package, should I?
[17:44] <kiko> cprov, new "new"?
[17:44] <cprov> salutis: sorry ?  lack of context. Why should you rebuild stuff ?
[17:45] <salutis> cprov: ops, now package is built. sorry
[17:45] <adeuring> afflux: sounds like a bug in Launchpad that you ca subscribe but not unsubscribe other people.
[17:45] <adeuring> s/ca/can/
[17:45] <cprov> kiko: yes ;)
[17:45] <afflux> yes
[17:46] <kiko> cprov, how many TBs?
[17:47] <cprov> kiko: 1,6 TB
[17:48] <kiko> cprov, pas mal eh? disk space at an acceptable level?
[17:48] <adeuring> afflux: if it becomes too annoying, can you file a question? Launchpad admins can manually remove these users, if necessary.
[17:48] <adeuring> afflux: I'll also file a bug about it.
[17:49] <afflux> hm, will do. thanks.
[17:50] <soren> adeuring: About --fixes=lp:12345... What exactly "doesn't work"? I just tried it, and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~soren/vmbuilder/libvirtoverwrite is now clearly related to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/vmbuilder/+bug/276322.
[17:51] <adeuring> soren: the bug status is not automatically set to "fix committed" of "fix released"
[17:52] <soren> adeuring: Ah.
[17:52] <salutis> cprov: I can't upgrade the package :(
[17:53] <salutis> cprov: 1 not upgraded (aptitude)
[19:03] <ahasenack> I used "also affects project" in a ticket and I shouldn't have, is there a way to *remove* the affected project from the ticket?
[20:19] <afflux> quite some people in bug 183685 complain about still getting emails after subscribing. Maybe someone should look into that.
[20:20] <beuno> afflux, any specific examples we can look into?
[20:22] <afflux> beuno: check the last 30 comments
[20:23] <kiko> afflux, do you mean unsubscribing?
[20:23] <afflux> woops.
[20:24] <afflux> Yes
[20:24] <kiko> afflux, they are probably subscribed to dupes.
[20:24] <kiko> and don't read email footers
[20:24]  * kiko says rude words
[20:25] <afflux> that's... not good indeed ;)
[20:25] <kiko> even after I invested DAYS of my life adding explicit information in the footers
[20:25] <bdmurray> heh
[20:25] <kiko> nielsen is right. UDR.
[20:25]  * beuno hugs kiko and keeps on walking
[20:26] <bdmurray> Is there a way to link a ppa to a bug? kind of like with bzr branches
[20:29] <Odd_Bloke> bdmurray: Would you expect it to keep track of bugs _in_ packages in that PPA, or bugs _fixed_ by them?
[20:29] <beuno> bdmurray, short answer is no  :)
[20:29] <bdmurray> Odd_Bloke: Both, but I'd prefer to find bugs fixed by PPAs first
[20:30] <bdmurray> Is it on the radar at all?
[20:30] <beuno> bdmurray, there is a bug open, and I've seen discussion around it
[20:31] <bdmurray> I'll look for the bug then
[20:34] <bdmurray> Okay, I think I found it thanks!
[20:37] <kirkland> kiko: barry: hey guys, i'm hoping you can bump through two more mailing list approvals for me
[20:38] <barry> kirkland: i can when i'm done with this thing i'm doing :)
[20:38] <kirkland> barry: rock on ;-)
[20:39] <kiko> bdmurray, not easily, but you can put a URL in a comment. :)
[20:41] <bdmurray> kiko: right, but then those are really searchable which is what I'd find valuable
[20:43] <bdmurray> aren't
[20:44] <kiko> yeah, good point
[20:54] <barry> kirkland: done
[20:54] <kirkland> barry: awesome, thanks ;-)
[20:55] <barry> np!
[20:55] <kirkland> barry: i think we have now supplanted sourceforge for the ecryptfs project ;-)
[20:55] <barry> rock on
[20:55]  * barry really needs to look at ecryptfs
[21:42] <v6lur_> hi. what is "kde po format" as opposed to just "po format"?
[21:42] <kiko> v6lur_, I think they are almost the same
[21:49] <v6lur_> why the distinction, then?
[21:55] <kiko> I think there's something special about plural forms
[21:55] <kiko> I think so.
[21:58] <v6lur_> ok
[21:58] <v6lur_> thanks
[22:00] <kiko> v6lur_, yeah, that's it
[22:01] <kiko> from Whttps://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+spec/kde-plural-forms e need to support special KDE plural form messages which are not using standard gettext support.
[22:01] <kiko> KDE 4.0 is switching over to standard gettext plural forms, but older KDE versions will still be around for a long time.
[22:01] <kiko> Implementation will provide support for legacy KDE plural forms: on import, pre-processing of KDE 3.5 (and earlier) PO files and correctly separating plural forms; on export, post-processing exported PO files to use KDE style plural fields instead of standard gettext fields.
[22:01] <kiko> This will fix #46982: a bug which caused all KDE translations with more than two plural forms to be rejected. Translators will now be able to complete KDE translations using Launchpad.
[22:04] <v6lur_> ok, thanks again:)
[22:08] <kiko> noprb
[22:25] <DrSmall> Greetings,
[23:17] <pjv> Is there a way I can put a small xml file in a launchpad project that will always (I would want to update it with subsequent releases) have the same url pointing to it from externally?
[23:22] <pjv> Is there a way I can put a small xml file in a launchpad project that will always (I would want to update it with subsequent releases) have the same url pointing to it from externally?
[23:23] <kiko> pjv, can you explain further?
[23:24] <pjv> well, I want to provide a version history with update information that can be retrieved in an automatic way
[23:24] <pjv> just a small text xml file
[23:25] <pjv> that has a link to it like https://launchpadlibrarian.net/18194682/AndroidsFortune.xml
[23:25] <kiko> pjv, why don't you add a download file to your project?
[23:25] <pjv> but then so I can change the file (or rather its contents) at new releases without having the link changed
[23:25] <kiko> ah
[23:25] <kiko> hmmmmmmmm
[23:25] <pjv> download files can be deleted and re-uploaded but the number in the link changes
[23:26] <kiko> yeah, it's true.
[23:28] <pjv> any way whatsoever (it can be a small hack)? maybe as an attachment in the blueprints or answers sections (that I am not so familiar with)?
[23:30] <kiko> pjv, I don't think we host any user content raw with a predictable URL
[23:30] <kiko> well
[23:30] <kiko> actually
[23:30] <kiko> we do in PPAs
[23:30] <kiko> pjv, and in bazaar!
[23:30] <kiko> pjv, just push a branch that contains the XML file
[23:30] <kiko> and you can use bazaar.launchpad.net to see it
[23:30] <pjv> hmm, ok let me see
[23:31] <pjv> eh oh yes my problem there was how do I say "latest revision"?
[23:32] <kiko> hmmm
[23:32] <pjv> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Epjv/androidsfortune/trunk/download/16/androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40/AndroidsFortune.xml?file_id=androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40
[23:32] <kiko> pjv, not beautiful eh?
[23:32] <pjv> this contains the number "16" which is the revision
[23:32] <pjv> I don't care how human-readable it is
[23:33] <kiko> beuno, do you know if there's an answer to pjv's question?
[23:33]  * beuno looks
[23:33] <kiko> I suspect you can't get latest there
[23:33] <kiko> i.e.
[23:33] <kiko> -1
[23:33] <beuno> yes you can!
[23:33] <pjv> but yeah, I was also wondering about the randomness of the other numbers
[23:33] <pjv> ah thats interesting
[23:34] <beuno> pjv, one sec, I'll let you in on the secret
[23:34] <pjv> thx for your effort
[23:38] <beuno> pjv, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Epjv/androidsfortune/trunk/download/head:/androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40/AndroidsFortune.xml?file_id=androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40
[23:38] <beuno> just replace the "16" with "head:"
[23:38] <kiko> beuno, man, that has got to be added to the FAQ
[23:39] <beuno> kiko, yeap yeap
[23:39] <pjv> ok, but does that solve it?
[23:39] <beuno> or to Logerhead itself!
[23:39] <pjv> what about the "-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40" part?
[23:39] <kiko> pjv, that varies, but I wonder
[23:39] <pjv> to be clear, I'm looking for something like: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Epjv/androidsfortune/trunk/download/head:/androidsfortune.xml
[23:40] <kiko> beuno, can loggerhead give me the latest version of a file at a predictable URL?
[23:40] <beuno> pjv, I have a branch to be able to do that
[23:40] <pjv> or something less human-readable
[23:40] <beuno> kiko, not now, i ahve a branch I havne't mananged to finish yet
[23:40] <pjv> beuno, elaborate?
[23:40] <beuno> but "soon"
[23:40]  * beuno looks for his branch
[23:40] <pjv> ah, you're working on some project?
[23:41] <kiko> pjv, he's working on the code which runs on bazaar.launchpad.net
[23:43] <beuno> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~amanica/loggerhead/abstract_paths
[23:43] <beuno> I seem to have deleted mine at some point
[23:43] <beuno> but that's one of the latest versions
[23:44] <beuno> so, there will be easy paths soon
[23:44] <beuno> just need to find time to fix some quirks
[23:44] <beuno> pjv, you can cheat and use head: for the time being
[23:44] <pjv> eh no I don't think that would cut it
[23:45] <pjv> because some parts in the link still depend on revisions/releases etc.
[23:45] <pjv> we were halfway there though
[23:45] <kiko> pjv, yeah. it's unfortunate because this would be the most flexible setup
[23:45] <kiko> easy to update etc
[23:45] <pjv> and using bazaar sure is the most logical way
[23:45] <beuno> pjv, the other bits are file_ids
[23:45] <beuno> they don't change
[23:46] <beuno> so, you just have to find out the file_id for the file
[23:46] <pjv> how can I change the contents of the file without changing the file_id's then?
[23:46] <beuno> pjv, bzr does that magic
[23:47] <beuno> for you  :)
[23:47] <pjv> hmm, that would be nice of bzr ;-) let me check
[23:47] <beuno> it even keeps the file_id if you rename that file
[23:48] <pjv> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Epjv/androidsfortune/trunk/download/17/androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40/AndroidsFortune.xml?file_id=androidsfortune.xml-20081003215357-77py3411h119elj2-40
[23:48] <pjv> seems you're right
[23:49] <pjv> jee thanks, thats great!!
[23:49] <beuno> :)
[23:49] <beuno> happy to help
[23:49] <kiko> pjv, so cool :)
[23:49] <pjv> the "head:" thing is cool
[23:50] <pjv> should make it public, or at least a public secret
[23:50] <pjv> if you care about karma, I had a question opened here: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/47071
[23:50] <pjv> might as well grab the honnors
[23:52] <beuno> pjv, I'll add the answer
[23:55] <beuno> ...when I get home
[23:55]  * beuno -> home
[23:56] <pjv> ok, well thanks alot, beuno and kiko
[23:57] <pjv> bye
[23:57] <kiko> pjv, sure thing
[23:57] <kiko> pjv, btw
[23:57] <kiko> pjv, what are you trying to do?
[23:57] <pjv> automating some stuff
[23:58] <beuno> pjv, the ubuntu art team is doing that as well
[23:58] <kiko> well that I could figure
[23:58] <kiko> but what exactly? :)
[23:58] <beuno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/BreatheIconSet/Icons
[23:58] <beuno> (those are all linked from loggerhead)
[23:59] <pjv> getting app update information by version checking