[00:22] <apachelogger> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bug/153175/comments/11
[00:46] <vorian> pic stealer JontheEchidna
[00:46] <vorian> :P
[00:48] <apachelogger> vore: huh?
[00:50] <apachelogger> vorian: even ;-)
[00:50]  * apachelogger is getting tired
[00:51] <vorian> apachelogger: jonny boy used my cube shot
[00:51] <apachelogger> omg
[00:51] <apachelogger> screenshot recycling
[00:51] <apachelogger> vorian: if yours was at least good looking :P
[00:51] <apachelogger> *were
[00:52] <apachelogger> something with w at least
[00:52] <vorian> apachelogger: i didn't like it so well
[00:52] <vorian> i'll work on a cleaner shot
[00:52] <apachelogger> ~np
[00:52] <kubotu> apachelogger is listening to "Colors Of The Wind" by Disney
[00:52] <vorian> \o/
[00:53] <apachelogger> uh, nemphis has to blog about the countdown pic
[00:53] <apachelogger> jonny boy does as well
[00:54] <ScottK> I'm waiting for someone to steal my screenshot for a blog: http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/1005081116a.jpg
[00:55] <apachelogger> vorian: go blog about that
[00:56] <apachelogger> ScottK: I am going to enhance the runtime patch a bit
[00:56] <ScottK> OK.
[00:56] <ScottK> It'll be a few hours if at all before I'm up for some sponsoring tonight.
[00:56] <vorian> apachelogger: blog about what?
[01:01]  * claydoh will either unsub (for real) fro K-U maillist, or drop a nuke on it :(
[01:03] <apachelogger> claydoh: what did they do?
[01:04] <claydoh> the usual crap whining, and the fact that I am no good at responding well in there
[01:04] <claydoh> from the same usual suspects for the most part
[01:05]  * claydoh should waste less time there, spend more in kubuntuforums
[01:05] <claydoh> its m y job anyway :)(
[01:05] <apachelogger> claydoh: what are they whining about?
[01:05] <claydoh> lack of kde3
[01:05] <claydoh> in intrepid
[01:06] <apachelogger> cute :)
[01:06] <claydoh> lack of 'listening to the users'
[01:06] <ScottK> claydoh: Got that on ubuntu-devel-discuss too.
[01:06] <claydoh> from the developers
[01:06] <apachelogger> I love mankind
[01:06] <apachelogger> I need a tshirt for that
[01:06] <ScottK> Although I think the kdvi guy has a point.
[01:06] <claydoh> crying about dophin
[01:06] <claydoh> still
[01:06] <ScottK> Dolphin is painful, IMO.
[01:06] <apachelogger> ScottK also did that :P
[01:06] <ScottK> I'll join them.
[01:06] <apachelogger> ScottK: you just need to get used to it
[01:06] <claydoh> I like it myself
[01:07] <apachelogger> it actually does most things better than konqueror ever did
[01:07] <ScottK> Now that I know how to get the 'edit' bar up there so I can actually type in where I want to go, it's looking better.
[01:07]  * ScottK needs to figure out how to get it to waste less screen space.
[01:08] <claydoh> using a laptop as my only system and using KDE4 has actually made me a bit more productive
[01:08] <apachelogger> ScottK: new patch at http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/kdebase-runtime_4.1.2-0ubuntu2_to_ubuntu3.diff
[01:08] <claydoh> ScottK: yeah, imo the info icon on the left pane is too big
[01:08]  * apachelogger never uses the panes
[01:09] <apachelogger> the shortcut thingies can be acces throught he icon in the address bar
[01:09] <apachelogger> and saves _a lot_ space
[01:09] <apachelogger> ScottK: btw, there is a setting for the addressbar
[01:09] <apachelogger> ScottK: settings -> configure -> editable location bar
[01:10] <claydoh> I like how you can drag the panels areound, have places and Info in tabs on one side,
[01:10]  * apachelogger never was a fan of pointydragy GUIs
[01:10] <claydoh> but the info pane makes the placces pane too big
[01:10]  * claydoh is a gui guy
[01:11] <apachelogger> then again that might be due to the extreme ranting markey used to do about them
[01:11] <apachelogger> then again markey used to be a good GUI designer
[01:15] <apachelogger> ScottK: going to enhance it again ;-)
[01:18] <claydoh> so do  you guys ignore users' issues and concerns ? ;)
[01:18]  * claydoh doesn't think so
[01:19] <apachelogger> I certainly do
[01:19] <apachelogger> markey also used to say that we know better than users
[01:19] <claydoh> I have always found at least answers fro you
[01:19] <apachelogger> then again I think I know better than anyone :P
[01:20] <claydoh> well there has to be at least a little of that in order to get anything done
[01:21] <claydoh> the ditro's devel team to me is supposed to provide a sane set of defaults *they* deem to be good
[01:21] <claydoh> we are free to either use, modify, or go somewhere else
[01:21] <claydoh> or join in  and hel of course
[01:24] <apachelogger> I like the last part most :D
[01:26] <claydoh> I really need to get focused on something useful
[01:26] <claydoh> I miss hand-writing rpm spec files for wine, back when I used Lycoris
[01:27] <apachelogger> well
[01:27] <claydoh> back when they pissed off users by switching to kde3
[01:27] <apachelogger> I miss being a user :(
[01:28] <apachelogger> ScottK: enhanced diff at the same url
[01:34] <ryanakca> apachelogger: you have upload rights to main?
[01:35] <apachelogger> ryanakca: nope, maybe after tuesday :)
[01:36] <ryanakca> apachelogger: bummer, good luck :)
[01:36] <apachelogger> thx
[01:37]  * apachelogger pokes JontheEchidna with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.status_upstream=pending_bugwatch&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&field.has_cve.used=&field.tag=&field
[01:37] <apachelogger> .tags_combinator=ANY&search=Search
[01:37] <apachelogger> that is one long url :D
[01:37]  * ryanakca mumbles something about tinyurl :D
[01:38] <ryanakca> Would it be worthwhile to stick the kdebase-runtime debian dirs in bazaar/LP ?
[01:39] <ryanakca> s/dirs/dir/g
[01:41] <ryanakca> Riddell: ping, could you upload the fix attached to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase-workspace/+bug/278620 please ?
[01:41] <apachelogger> ryanakca: I certainly would like to have all the kde core debian dirs in bazaar
[01:41] <apachelogger> makes collaboration a lot easier
[01:42]  * ryanakca nods
[01:42] <apachelogger> backports as well
[01:42] <apachelogger> ryanakca: I am going to merge your runtime diff with mine
[01:43] <ryanakca> apachelogger: okies
[01:48] <apachelogger> ryanakca: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/kdebase-runtime_4.1.2-0ubuntu2_to_ubuntu3.diff Scott will eventually get round to upload, otherwise jr might have time tomorrow
[01:50] <ryanakca> apachelogger: splendid... All of our current bzr'd packages are in Merge mode (only debian/ directory is revisioned?)
[01:51] <ryanakca> correct?
[01:51] <apachelogger> well
[01:51] <ScottK> ryanakca: We tried bzr/LP during Gutsy and it was just too slow to be usable.
[01:51] <apachelogger> note exaclty
[01:51] <apachelogger> ScottK: gutsy was ages ago though :)
[01:51] <apachelogger> ryanakca: yes as to you have to use merge mode
[01:51] <ScottK> Every time I touch it again it seems painfully slow.
[01:51] <apachelogger> I think pretty much all of them are missing the necessary configs
[01:52] <apachelogger> so you will actually have to run --merge -e
[01:52] <apachelogger> ScottK: well, I prefer a slow RCS over no RCS
[01:52] <ScottK> Pick one I know how to use and we'll talk.
[01:53] <apachelogger> well
[01:53]  * ryanakca mumbles something about svn-inject being splendidly simple to use and quite fast
[01:53] <apachelogger> ScottK: RTFM :P
[01:53] <apachelogger> bzr got the undeniable advantage that everyone with a lp account can take part
[01:53] <ScottK> apachelogger: -ENOTIME for an Ubuntu unique VCS.
[01:54] <apachelogger> everything else would require a seperate login
[01:54] <ScottK> Yes, I know it's used elsewhere but I've never run into it outside Ubuntu.
[01:54] <apachelogger> ryanakca: svn is not fast
[01:54] <apachelogger> ScottK: I think mysql uses it
[01:55] <apachelogger> but yeah, it is pretty ubuntu unique
[01:55]  * ryanakca shrugs... it might just be all the rapidly scrolling text that gives me the impression that it's doing a lot, fast...
[01:55] <apachelogger> then again it is not really complicate to master
[01:55] <apachelogger> only merging and resolving conflicts need a bit of reading
[01:55] <apachelogger> everything else is pretty much like any other rcs anyway
[01:56] <apachelogger> ryanakca: use git and you know what fast looks like ;-) in addition to that you will also know what overly complex looks like :P
[02:11] <ryanakca> vorian: any progress on bug 277909? I'm willing to look a bit more in depth...
[02:12] <vorian> ryanakca: have at it
[02:12] <apachelogger> ryanakca: IIRC Scott reported a bug where he stated that the nonscaliness applies to all card games
[02:12] <vorian> default deck sucks, that's all there is to it
[02:13] <vorian> apachelogger: yea, it's the default deck
[02:13] <vorian> a possible work around is select a deck, and forget default altogether
[02:14] <apachelogger> well
[02:14] <apachelogger> I would suggest talking to the kdegames doods first and find a most appropriate solution for intrepid
[02:14] <apachelogger> they need to fix it one way or another anyway
[02:15] <ryanakca> vorian: are we installing the kdegames default deck, or are we the ones selecting a crappy default deck?
[02:17] <vorian> we have no patches specific to the deck
[02:17] <apachelogger> stupid patches!
[02:17] <vorian> we can patch it to select another deck?
[02:18] <vorian> although this might just be a bug we don't fix, as it's just a really bad default
[02:18] <apachelogger> well
[02:18] <apachelogger> I told you
[02:19] <apachelogger> talk to the games d00ds and find an appropriate solution
[02:19] <apachelogger> if we can fix the defaults for all card games at once we shoudl patch it
[02:19] <apachelogger> if we can't kds is the way to go
[02:19] <apachelogger> is this the way to smokarillo... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is_This_the_Way_to_Amarillo
[02:19] <apachelogger> afk
[02:24] <ryanakca> vorian: Yes, we can patch it to select another deck... And I'll poke the games people tomorrow after school... I need to finish my homework :)
[02:25] <vorian> roger
[02:25] <vorian> well, it was more of a question if we should
[02:25] <vorian> :)
[02:26]  * apachelogger is off to the batbed
[02:26] <apachelogger> nini
[02:26]  * JontheEchidna goes to hack on cube/sphere/cylinder
[02:26] <vorian> JontheEchidna: you should update the cube pic
[02:27] <vorian> new one is 10000x better
[02:27] <JontheEchidna> the cube cap? Or the background?
[02:27] <vorian> and not so revealing of my modes and secret ubuntu forums stuff
[02:27] <vorian> it's just a better shot
[02:27] <JontheEchidna> oh, rite
[02:27] <vorian> more default
[02:27] <JontheEchidna> the blog
[02:27] <JontheEchidna> that will bump it back up to the top again \o/
[02:27] <vorian> lol
[02:28] <vorian> i changed mine without bumping it :P
[02:28] <vorian> but
[02:28] <JontheEchidna> blogspot must be dumb
[02:28] <vorian> if you do pump it again, use the counter \o/
[02:28] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[02:29] <JontheEchidna> damn, we have 30 incomplete bugs in base-workspace
[02:35] <ScottK> apachelogger: Do we need to discuss fish versus sftp?
[02:40] <ScottK> vorian: IMO the current default (when it's rendered properly) is a lot more readable than the alternatives (kdegames bug).  Dunno why it got worse between 4.0 and 4.1
[02:41] <Hobbsee> ScottK: did you feel a sense of deja vu with that licencing guy from a few days ago?
[02:42] <ScottK> I suppose.  Why, has he been here before?
[02:43] <Hobbsee> ScottK: yeah.  screenname<numbers>
[02:43] <Hobbsee> pretty close to teh same wording, too.
[02:43] <vorian> he's been on irc Hobbsee?
[02:44] <ScottK> I didn't specifically recall him.
[02:44] <ScottK> eagles$whatever is one I always remember.
[02:44] <Hobbsee> vorian: today?  No, haven't seen him.  I noticed him in -motu a few days ago.
[02:44] <vorian> hmm
[02:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK: well, he was here yesterday, so has managed to ge ta few bans nwo.
[02:44] <Hobbsee> ScottK: (ban evasion)
[02:44] <ScottK> Yeah.  Great.
[02:44] <Hobbsee> would be happy to do the deed here too, if you like.
[02:44] <Hobbsee> well, a few bans instead of a quiet
[02:45] <ScottK> I'll let you know.
[02:45] <Hobbsee> cool
[02:45] <ScottK> Anytime he show's up I'm tempted to tell him something like, "Dude, you hit on Hobbsee in #kubuntu-testers and not only that did it in a specatularly pathetic way.  No way do you get listened to here."
[02:46] <Hobbsee> ScottK: hehe.  I tend to go with "this is not a soapbox area, and you have to actually be productive" as the reason for any action.
[02:46] <Hobbsee> but yes, that too.
[02:47] <ScottK> Showing up and soapboxing is recoverable.  I think what he did isn't.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> not when he continuously does it.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> but, yes.
[03:09] <JontheEchidna> holy crap
[03:09] <JontheEchidna> reading a diff of a diff is painful
[03:10] <JontheEchidna> vorian: http://paste.ubuntu.com/54511/
[03:11] <JontheEchidna> could you test that since you can haz effects like cylinder and sphere?
[03:11] <vorian> sure thing
[03:12] <JontheEchidna> big thx
[03:13] <vorian> building now
[03:15] <JontheEchidna> Oh and thinking about it, re-enabling the window preview on tooltips effect will probably have some stuff needed to be added to kde-window-manager.install
[03:15] <JontheEchidna> so that probably won't work atm, heh.
[03:18] <vorian> what won't work, the window preview?
[03:18] <JontheEchidna> yeah, reenabling it probably generates new files not in the .install
[03:23] <JontheEchidna> urgh, have to go
[03:23] <JontheEchidna> be back tomorrow
[03:24] <vorian> nn
[08:56] <Riddell> good morning lovely kubuntuers
[08:59] <Tm_T> morgen
[08:59] <Tonio_> hey Mr Riddell ^^
[09:00]  * Tm_T had honeymoon-weekend and now making plasma presentation materials in a rush
[09:01] <Riddell> honeymoon?  like with a woman?
[09:03] <Tm_T> no, laptop... ofcourse with a woman in my case (:)
[09:03] <Tm_T> Riddell: and only 6 weeks for scheduled babytime
[09:03] <Tm_T> so busy times are these
[09:03] <Riddell> goodness, congratulations
[09:04] <Tm_T> thanks, sir
[09:23] <Tonio_> Tm_T: wow, congrats :)
[09:24] <Tonio_> Riddell: kipi-plugins for kde4 are out, interested in having them packaged ?
[09:25] <Tonio_> Riddell: the problem is that we have gwenview that will use the kde4 ones and digikam that'll use the kde3 version....
[09:26] <Tonio_> allee: interested in testing kde4 kipi-plugins packaged ?
[09:28] <allee> Tonio_: maybe later tonight, where are they.  Currently I'm  busy right now testing my new FAI pkgs.
[09:40] <apachelogger> good morning gears
[09:41] <apachelogger> ScottK: we already did in the bug.... KDE actually suggests sftp over fish, the latter is not as well maintained and got serious issues with non-latin characters, so since sftp works out of the box on Kubuntu just as well as fish it makes sense to have knetattach use sftp. fish is still available for those who need/want to use it.
[09:42] <apachelogger> Tm_T: I am getting a brother/sister?
[09:42] <Tm_T> apachelogger: ye
[09:42] <apachelogger> omg
[09:42] <apachelogger> \o/
[09:42]  * apachelogger hugs Tm_T
[09:42] <Tm_T> <3
[09:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: did you already digg through the weekends highlights? ;-)
[09:58] <Tonio_> allee: ouch.... FAI :)
[09:58] <Tonio_> allee: maybe later then, I'm working on the packaging right now
[10:52] <Riddell> Tonio_: only if it's possible to install them alongside
[10:52] <Riddell> apachelogger: no, did anything get uploaded?
[10:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: ScottK is working on kdebase-runtime, since he tries to get the stack building on hppa again
[10:53] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/debdiffs/?C=M;O=A base artwork and workspace need uploads
[11:01] <Riddell> ScottK has an hppa?
[11:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: well, I was considering digikam-kde4
[11:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: it is currently beta4 status, so maybe we could consider ship with kde4 versions of digikam, kipi-plugins and gwenview no ?
[11:18] <Tonio_> Riddell: is there any reason to keep digikam kde3 ?
[11:20] <Riddell> Tonio_: digikam upstream really want us to use kde 3 version
[11:21] <Tonio_> Riddell: okay that makes sense ;)
[11:31] <Tonio_> Riddell: hum btw, kipi needs current kde4.2 trunk to be packaged, libkdcraw 4.1 is deprecated..... so we'll have to wait :)
[11:31] <Tonio_> -> jaunty
[12:16] <Riddell> apachelogger: uploaded except for kdebase-runtime
[12:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: thanks :)
[13:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: how about moving workspace to bzr :P
[14:42] <ScottK> Riddell: No.  I don't have hppa, but I can harrass people who do to look at stuff.  Just trying to do what I can to beat ports into shape.
[14:43] <Riddell> groovy, you hold lock on that kdebase-runtime patch then
[14:45] <ScottK> Riddell: Well not today.  I ended up being up a good part of the night with a sick dog and have a long offline meeting this afternoon, so today I can't get much done.  I'd say go ahead and if it needs a rebuild for hppa later, I'll deal with it.
[14:50] <Riddell> righty ho
[14:51] <JontheEchidna> Could anybody here who can do desktop effects test kdebase-workspace from here? https://launchpad.net/~echidnaman/+archive/
[14:51] <JontheEchidna> Need to see if sphere and cylinder work now
[14:57] <rgreening> morning all
[14:59] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: One other thing before I go: I don't know if you've been following the kdvi thread on ubuntu-devel-discuss, but I'm convinced that it provides a piece of functionality that isn't present elsewhere in the archive.
[15:00] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: I've made a version of kdegraphics from 3.5.10 that only builds kdvi, kviewshell, and the docs package.
[15:01] <ScottK-laptop> I'd like to upload that (after I test it some more) as kde3graphics.
[15:01] <ScottK-laptop> Since you're the KDE FFe guy, I'm looking at you for approval.
[15:01] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: seems good to me
[15:01] <ScottK-laptop> It doesn't conflict with and KDE4 stuff AFAIK.
[15:01] <ScottK-laptop> OK.
[15:01] <Riddell> does kdvi need kviewshell?
[15:01] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.
[15:01] <ScottK-laptop> Won't build without it.
[15:02] <Riddell> I'd be tempted to just call the source package kdvi
[15:02] <ScottK-laptop> OK.
[15:02] <ScottK-laptop> Maybe I can move the needed kviewshell bits into kdvi.
[15:03] <ScottK-laptop> I need to beat the -docs-html bit around some to only provide the needed docs and not ALL of them.
[15:03] <ScottK-laptop> I've currently got it building and installing.
[15:03] <ScottK-laptop> I'll have that tonight or tomorrow.
[15:11] <nixternal> anyone else running a dual monitor with intrepid?
[15:17] <Riddell> nixternal: seaLne maybe
[15:17] <seaLne> yep
[15:19] <seaLne> nixternal: and \sh
[15:20] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: okular doesn't do dvi?
[15:22] <nixternal> seaLne: any troubles at all?
[15:22] <nixternal> I have an intel gm965 or whatever, and my 2nd monitor is blinking
[15:22] <nixternal> the stuff in system settings doesn't work at all
[15:23] <seaLne> sometimes 2 cashews on the left and none on right currently only one on left none on right
[15:23] <nixternal> hrmm, did you customize your xorg.conf at all?
[15:23] <nixternal> ya, I got the shadowed cashew with hardy
[15:24] <seaLne> \sh had more problems than me
[15:24] <nixternal> are you using xrandr?
[15:25] <seaLne> http://paste.ubuntu.com/54652/
[15:26] <seaLne> xorg stuff didn't work in hardy for me had to manually xrandr
[15:33]  * nixternal tries that
[15:36] <seaLne> nixternal: i think \sh only got plasma on his right head
[15:37] <ScottK> Riddell: It does, but it doesn't provide inverse search which for some use cases appears to be really important.
[15:38] <ScottK> None of the other packages that do dvi have that either.  Kdvi was the only one.
[15:38]  * ScottK heads out now ...
[15:39] <rgreening> Riddell: in update-manager-kde, when you have a restart notification, and you click it, it comes up with the Turn off option, rather than the actual restart/reload. It should offer either just the restart or both the restart and reload.
[15:39] <rgreening> Riddell: I think this is an artifactof the other patch for customizing the logout/restart/shutdown in ksmserver.
[15:40] <rgreening> Riddell: thoughts?
[15:43] <Riddell> rgreening: yes, it needs the correct numbers to be called in the dbus call
[15:43] <Riddell> goodness knows what those are, experimentation is about the only way
[15:48] <rgreening> Riddell: k. I'll figure it out and send a patch along... The plasmoid for lock/logout has similar usability issues,
[15:54] <seaLne> anyone seeing kmail/kontact hanging trying to send mail?
[15:55] <seaLne> since upgrading this morning i can't send without hanging, no problems last week
[15:56] <Riddell> no kdepim updates for the last week
[15:58] <seaLne> yeah its strange
[16:01] <Riddell> nixternal: where's kubuntu docs in bzr?
[16:01] <nixternal> this is annoying
[16:01] <nixternal> Riddell: under ~ubuntu-docs
[16:02] <Riddell> nixternal: url?
[16:03] <Riddell> lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/kubuntu-intrepid ?
[16:05] <nixternal> lp:~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/kubuntu-intrepid
[16:05] <nixternal> yup
[16:05] <nixternal> this blinking 2nd monitor is going to drive me nuts
[16:05] <davmor2> ﻿if any one is interested in testing infrastructure, cr3 is giving now a session at #ubuntu-classroom
[16:18] <seaLne> hmm interesting it apparently did send the mail after me leaving it for about 30 min
[16:20] <rgreening> Riddell: I think the enums we are looking for are contained in kdebase-workspace-4.1.2/libs/kworkspace/kworkspace.h
[16:20] <Riddell> rgreening: ah hah
[16:20] <rgreening> :)
[16:21] <rgreening> I'll doc that in the update-notifier-kde package in a README and make the required changes
[16:27] <rgreening> Riddell: new options are 0, 1, 2 rather than 1, 2, 3 (0 for confirm no, 1 for reboot, and 2 for force now. I think that may be too aggressive, but it's what matches the comment block in the code. I think the best option would be 1 (confirm yes), 1, (reboot), and 3 (Interactive).
[16:28] <rgreening> so, confirm this and I'll do the patch
[16:28] <Riddell> rgreening: please do
[16:28] <nixternal> hrmm, the dual mon blinking issue is a "Kubuntu Only" issue
[16:28] <rgreening> Riddell: k.
[16:29] <nixternal> xserver is horrid
[16:38] <Riddell> nixternal: do we have an install guide?
[16:41] <nixternal> Riddell: we haven't had an install guide in forever....the Ubuntu people said that is what the wiki is fo
[16:41] <nixternal> r
[16:41] <nixternal> ie. mdke and the mass Ubuntu-docs people back a few years ago....
[16:42] <Riddell> nixternal: hmm, so someone boots up a CD and wonders how to get it installed.. they need to work out how to set up internet access and find it on the wiki (and even then it's for ubuntu not kubuntu)
[16:43] <Riddell> a short live CD install guide would seem good to have on the CD to me
[16:43] <nixternal> yup, jjesse and I argued that years back but got shutdown
[16:43] <nixternal> I agree
[16:43] <Riddell> we can do what we like in kubuntu docs :)
[16:44] <nixternal> for Jaunty, I want to separate kubuntu-docs from Ubuntu Documentation because we have no real control or say so in it
[16:44] <nixternal> ya, that is why I want it separated, because ubuntu-doc people take it upon themselves to change our layout and make it look like theirs
[16:46] <nixternal> I really don't want to go back to Hardy, but it looks like i have to :(
[16:50] <Riddell> nixternal: what's joined about them?  the archive is different
[16:52] <nixternal> ya, but jjesse and I have no control besides content
[16:52] <nixternal> then again, maybe that has changed and I haven't kept up with it
[16:53] <nixternal> right now I am trying to fix my display issue here and it is really driving me mad
[16:56] <Riddell> is it an X issue or a plasma issue?
[16:56] <nixternal> I don't know
[16:57] <nixternal> I just booted into GNOME and everything was OK
[16:57] <nixternal> in KDE 4 my external LCD keeps blinking the desktop
[16:57] <nixternal> this didn't happen in hardy at all
[17:01] <rgreening> Riddell: patch e-mailed for update-manager-kde. Now it will correctly offer to reboot rather than halt.
[17:01] <Riddell> thanks rgreening
[17:01] <rgreening> np. It was annoying me, so I had to fix it :P
[17:02] <Riddell> nixternal: any idea where system-settings.xml has gone in the docs?
[17:03] <jjesse> Riddell: it isn't?
[17:03] <rgreening> Riddell: I'm going to propose a fix to the lock/logout plasmoid as well. Currently it shows only 2 buttons. Since the kickoff patch removes the reboot/logout options, the llockout button now only shows the halt option. I propose adding two icons along side (one for logout and one for reboot). Or make the logout show all 3. thoughts.
[17:03] <jjesse> Riddell: hrmm that is wierd, i thought i did a lot of editing on that
[17:04] <Riddell> jjesse: a bit too much it seems :)
[17:05] <jjesse> Riddell: checking log
[17:05] <nixternal> lol
[17:05] <rgreening> Riddell: actuallt the plasmoid is called Lock/Logout.. maybe I should just fix it so it's an actual Logout only...
[17:07] <Riddell> rgreening: can't it just show the dialogue with all three?  (like ctrl-alt-del)
[17:07] <rgreening> sure, if that's what we want. It doesn't atm due to the kickoff patch
[17:07] <Riddell> does here
[17:08] <rgreening> really? mine doesn't
[17:08] <Riddell> my ksmserver is old
[17:08] <rgreening> It used to work
[17:08] <rgreening> It stopped in 4.1.2 with the kdebase-workspace patch for the ksmserver and kickoff menu
[17:09] <rgreening> can anyone else confirm?
[17:10] <jjesse> ok how can irevert from revision 15
[17:10] <jjesse> when the file was removed
[17:10] <rgreening> Riddell: CTRL+ALT+DEL for me also only shows turn off (halt)
[17:11] <Riddell> jjesse: bzr revert -r 15 system-settings.xml  ?
[17:13] <jjesse> that doesn't bring back the deleted file?
[17:20] <Riddell> hmm, plasma is crashing with current version
[17:21] <Riddell> jjesse: bzr revert -r 14 system-settings.xml  works here
[17:21] <jjesse> yeah i got it
[17:22] <jjesse> nixternal: question on the reverted system settings.xml there is all this scripting and other things i don't recongize
[17:29] <Riddell> jjesse, nixternal: how come about kubuntu isn't in the khelpcentre menu?
[17:30] <jjesse> Riddell: i don't know, will have to wait for nixternal to respond on that one
[17:30] <nixternal> Riddell: I don't know w/o looking at it
[17:30] <nixternal> right now I am about to blow up my computer
[17:30] <nixternal> I don't want to go back to hardy because there are a lot of things in Intrepid that made my lappy work better, but this external monitor issue is going to drive me up a wall
[17:31] <nixternal> I think it is a kwin issue
[17:31] <Riddell> if neither of you know I'll just add it back, I think it's good to be able to find it
[17:31] <jjesse> just add it back
[17:31] <nixternal> ya
[17:31] <nixternal> Riddell: just add it back...do't know why it was removed
[17:35] <Riddell> jjesse: did you add back system-settings.xml?
[17:36] <jjesse> no on conference call, plus there is a lot of messed up looking code in the revert
[17:38] <Riddell> jjesse: hmm, I think I committed it back by mistake.  just commit over it when you know what you want
[17:39] <Riddell> apachelogger: do we have a plan for amarok 2 beta?  it compiled but didn't start for me
[18:14] <apachelogger> Riddell: try nuking your amarokrc
[18:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: is amarok-mysql-data installed?
[18:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes
[18:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: I get a crash
[18:42] <Riddell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/54713/
[18:44] <apachelogger>     if( mysql_library_init(num_elements, server_options, server_groups) != 0 )
[18:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: but you have it running?
[18:45] <apachelogger> yes
[18:45] <Riddell> apachelogger: is it in a ppa anywhere?
[18:46] <apachelogger> nope
[18:46] <Riddell> apachelogger: any plans to put it in one?
[18:46] <apachelogger> I will upload amarok-mysql and amarok to experimental
[18:47] <Riddell> kubuntu-experimental?
[18:47] <apachelogger> yes
[18:47] <apachelogger> it might very well be that it's just missing another runtime dep
[18:49] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: mind looking at this debdiff? http://paste.ubuntu.com/54721/
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> (kdebase-workspace, some kwin patch fixes and other misc thigns
[18:50] <JontheEchidna> )
[18:51] <Riddell> whee that's a big patch
[18:51] <JontheEchidna> quilt refresh did some funky stuff
[18:51] <Riddell> it likes to do that
[18:53] <Riddell> apachelogger: installing mysql-server doesn't help my amarok problem
[18:53] <apachelogger> :|
[18:55] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: building
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> uh
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> crap
[18:57] <nixternal> I cannot figure out this dualmon issue
[18:57] <JontheEchidna> the patch doesn't apply now
[18:58] <nixternal> in kubuntu the 2nd monitor blinks, in ubuntu the 2nd monitor doesn't blink, but if you drag something over to it, it shadows what you are dragging
[18:58] <jjesse> that sounds like lots of fun
[18:58] <nixternal> I wish I had my old xorg.conf now
[18:58] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: just the changelog needs updating
[18:59] <nixternal> Riddell: bryce still working on x stuff?
[19:00] <Riddell> nixternal: yes
[19:00] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: oh, apachelogger beat me to 0ubuntu4 I see
[19:00] <nixternal> k, I need to sit with him for a few and see if he can help me figure out the problem so I can file a bug
[19:02] <nixternal> \sh: where you at homeskillet?
[19:03] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: you got tripped up by the gettext domains being added to kwin/kwin.notifyrc
[19:04] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I'll just grab a fresh copy of 0ubuntu4 and reapply my changes against that
[19:06] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: btw... the tooltips are b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l
[19:07] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: yeah, <3 plasma
[19:21] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: this better? http://paste.ubuntu.com/54732/
[19:23] <Gunirus> rgreening: ping
[19:24] <rgreening> Gunirus: hey
[19:24] <Gunirus> bad news for you
[19:24] <rgreening> oh
[19:24] <Gunirus> Qt Jambi 4.4.3 is released
[19:24] <Gunirus> :p
[19:24] <rgreening> hahah
[19:24] <rgreening> lol
[19:25]  * rgreening does apt-get source qtjambi and starts building
[19:25] <Gunirus> :-)
[19:36] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I'm getting the redrawing problem with desktop effects again.
[19:39] <\sh> nixternal: karlsruhe
[19:40] <\sh> rightnow in my office...looks like I have to move from my flat to office officially
[19:40] <\sh> cheers btw
[19:45] <nixternal> \sh: you use intel and dual monitor?
[19:45] <nixternal> did you experience the 2nd monitor blinking (on/off/on/off/on/off....) at all?
[19:45] <\sh> nixternal: nope...ati + dual monitor
[19:45] <\sh> nixternal: no...
[19:46] <nixternal> this is crap...the live cd does it as well
[19:46] <\sh> nixternal: tbh...I use gnome in this moment...because it'
[19:46] <\sh> s 1000 times faster
[19:46] <nixternal> ya, I was looking at going with it o0n my work machine because this is a) slow and b) buggy
[19:47] <nixternal> and this is a centrino duo 2.6ghz machine
[19:48] <\sh> nixternal: bah...I have a core duo 2 with 1.86GhZ
[19:49] <\sh> nixternal: but my home machine with intel p4 xeon (single core HT machine)
[19:49] <\sh> is not better.kde + ati + whatever is bad...and home server was re-installed from scratch with beta alternate
[19:50] <nixternal> ya, I need my dual screen at work
[19:51] <nixternal> I don't want to go back to Hardy though as KDE 4 seems so much better in Intrepid
[19:51] <nixternal> but in hardy dual screen worked so freakin' good
[19:51] <\sh> nixternal: right..me too...so kde is not what I need right now until all the flaws with plasma and screen recognizing is solved...the randr tool in gnome works
[19:52] <\sh> quiet the opposite of the systemsetting screen recog tool
[19:58] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: I can confirm this as well (repaint issue is back)
[20:38] <nixternal> this is killing me...I have tried on other machines and got the same thing
[20:38] <nixternal> I don't even know where to begin
[21:19] <nixternal> w00t, got it working baby
[21:20] <nixternal> just need to get my dual screen wallpaper stuff working
[21:38] <apachelogger> \sh: the fact that krandr fails at simple tasks, and the stuff it does is really simple, makes me think that xrandr is the crap I have been told it is
[21:38]  * apachelogger loves over engineered software :P
[21:46] <nixternal> apachelogger: xrandr rocks hardcore
[21:46] <nixternal> it hasn't failed me yet in the past couple of years...except for today, that was a stupid xorg issue
[21:46] <nixternal> I am sure once xrandr is updated for the new xorg all will be well again
[21:47] <ScottK> I know we'll have a lot of crap xorg.conf's to deal with due to Guidance Displayconfig and Hardy upgrades.
[21:47]  * ScottK wonders if xfix ought not to be run as part of all upgrades.
[21:48] <nixternal> hrmm, I wonder if display config was my darn issue
[21:51] <ScottK-laptop> Off to try the new kernel ....
[22:09] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: well, I still can't get a cylinder (that would need my graphics driver to support shades or something) but I get window previews on my tooltips
[22:09] <JontheEchidna> nice!
[22:09] <JontheEchidna> yeah, mine doesn't even do cube since I'm using XRender mode instead of OpenGL mode
[22:10] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: shall I upload?
[22:10] <JontheEchidna> I think it's good
[22:14] <Riddell> I really need to fix cdbs to remove those ubuntu gettext lines before it removes the patches
[22:30] <ScottK> apachelogger: Thanks for the fish/sftp fix.  Works great.
[22:37] <apachelogger> Riddell: amarok-kde4 in kubuntu-experimental
[22:37] <apachelogger> I just installed in a clean intrepid on i386
[22:38] <apachelogger> starts and builds collection without problem
[22:40]  * JontheEchidna grabs
[22:41] <ScottK> Riddell: How are you on hal/dbus stuff?  I've got a question.
[22:42] <ScottK> Riddell: If guidance-power-manager tries to connect to hal and hal isn't running one gets http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18274893/Traceback.txt
[22:42] <ScottK> Dupes on this are piling up reasonably quickly.
[22:43] <ScottK> So I'm trying to decide how to fix it?
[22:43] <ScottK> Should python-dbus be smarter about this?
[22:43] <ScottK> Should guidance give up and die?
[22:43] <ScottK> Try to rrestart hal?
[22:43] <ScottK> Suggestions?
[22:46] <Riddell> ScottK: it should probably keep retrying periodically
[22:47] <ScottK> OK.
[22:47] <ScottK> Riddell: Do you have a favorite periodicity?
[22:47] <Riddell> every minute say, maybe it should give up after a few minutes
[22:47] <ScottK> OK.  Let me see what I can do with that.
[22:47] <Riddell> I've seen that happen when booting the CD in low memory systems
[22:47] <ScottK> That'll be after kdvi is done.
[22:48] <ScottK> I've seen it happen during hal package upgrades.
[22:48] <ScottK> I've also seen it booting on my laptop which, I don't think, is a low memory system.
[22:48] <ScottK> 2GB RAM isn't low memory is it?
[22:53] <Riddell> not yet
[22:58] <ryanakca> Riddell: Have you received any screenshots of KDE4/Intrepid?  If not, how should we get them... ask the Planet?
[22:59] <Riddell> ryanakca: I havn't
[22:59] <Riddell> planet could work
[22:59] <ryanakca> Riddell: okies... Where should we ask to have them submitted? I would use the wiki... but the wiki seems to hate Konqueror at the moment...
[23:00] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: should bug 263957 be fixed already?
[23:01] <JontheEchidna> it still seems to be open
[23:01] <JontheEchidna> oh, I need to unprivate it too
[23:01] <JontheEchidna> (not saying that it's still a living beastie, just asking if it's still around)
[23:02] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: that's fixed
[23:02] <JontheEchidna> cool, I'll close it
[23:18] <jussi01> oh yay, lancelot is borked...
[23:19] <LeeJunFan> jussi01: yeah, :(
[23:24] <JontheEchidna> yeah, no clue why either
[23:25] <jussi01> JontheEchidna: that sucks :(
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> btw, window previews on tooltips and working sphere/cylinder effects should be available in a bit
[23:30] <jussi01> JontheEchidna: no chance of getting the knotify that looks like rhose tooltips in for intrepid?
[23:31] <JontheEchidna> probably not, there aren't any bindings for knotify for python afaik
[23:31] <jussi01> :(
[23:32] <JontheEchidna> but at least those balloons don't pop up in the top left corner anymore \o/