[01:03] <Riddell> reisi: it works fine for us
[01:25] <rgreening> I cant wait for qt4.5
[01:32] <JontheEchidna> yeah, graphicsview should fly in Qt 4.5
[01:34] <JontheEchidna> automagic performance boosts ftw
[01:38] <rgreening> 4 sure
[08:10] <jussi01> Morning all
[08:58] <Riddell> morning jussi01
[08:58] <jussi01> Heya Riddell :)
[09:00] <jussi01> Riddell: is it a know issue that flash is broken (on some pages?) (ie. you tube is nice, but cnn.com is icky)
[11:17] <apachelogger> jussi01: cnn got flash?
[11:23] <Riddell> "General Error" guess it doesn't like something about konqueror
[11:23] <Riddell> doesn't work in firefox either for me but it gets further
[11:23] <apachelogger> Riddell: that is WMV
[11:23] <apachelogger> check the FAQ
[11:27] <Riddell> hmm right
[11:27]  * apachelogger can't reach homeNetwork and is wondering to do about it
[11:31] <smarter> hey
[11:33] <smarter> I've recently noticed(it probably started with kde 4.1.2) that the new device notifier plasmoid in the panel(the one with a computer icon), always has the black/white usb plug icon on it, IIRC in earlier versions it was only shown when something was plugged
[11:34] <Riddell> in the top left?
[11:34] <smarter> bottom left
[11:34] <jussi01> apachelogger: cnn has flash, yes
[11:34] <Riddell> I think that's always there
[11:34] <Riddell> jussi01: URL?
[11:35] <jussi01> Riddell: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TRAVEL/07/01/daily.snapshot/index.html
[11:35] <Riddell> "This CNN.com feature is optimized for Adobe Flash Player version 8 or higher.
[11:35] <Riddell> You are currently using Flash Player 10"
[11:35] <Riddell> broken javascript
[11:36] <smarter> pic because I don't know if I'm clear here :) http://pix.nofrag.com/d/d/e/86db52d209e94ec3301d452d8de7b.html
[11:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, did you see pitti's last comment on bug 280295
[11:36] <Riddell> smarter: that's always there for me
[11:36] <smarter> Riddell: even in earlier versions of KDE 4.1 ?
[11:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: no, thanks
[11:37] <Riddell> smarter: not sure
[11:37] <apachelogger> no
[11:37] <apachelogger> the icon was changed
[11:37] <apachelogger> because it wasn't very useful before
[11:37] <smarter> so it's not a bug, just a feature? :)
[11:37] <apachelogger> well
[11:37] <apachelogger> a half-way-fix feature
[11:38] <apachelogger> 4.2 comes with much more sensible icon
[11:38] <smarter> okay
[11:39] <Riddell> I think that whole applet is not very useful, it duplicates what kickoff already has
[11:39] <apachelogger> well, it makes the devices more visible
[11:40] <Riddell> yes
[11:40] <apachelogger> if it was easier to create profiles for it, the whole device integration would make more sense IMHO
[11:40] <apachelogger> took >1 hour to implement one for dragon player
[11:41]  * apachelogger should backport that
[11:46] <Riddell> what sort of profiles?
[11:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, currently it only offers dolphin as option to access the device with
[11:47] <apachelogger> however for DVD/SVCDs you might want a dragon
[11:47] <apachelogger> and for empty DVD/CDs you might want K3b...
[11:47] <jussi01> apachelogger: ++ :)
[11:49] <apachelogger> \o/ I get back in my network, my desktop still doesn't respond though -.-
[11:49] <apachelogger> jussi01: huh, what for?
[11:50] <jussi01> apachelogger: those profiles :
[11:50] <apachelogger> oh well, I only made one for video DVDs
[11:50] <apachelogger> I blogged about it though, wasn't all that much fun
[11:51] <apachelogger> http://apachelog.blogspot.com/2008/08/dragons-dvds-and-new-device-notifiers.html
[11:54] <apachelogger> http://primalcortex.wordpress.com/2008/10/09/kubuntu-as-an-xwindows-server/
[12:00]  * smarter <3 users feedback on forum
[12:00] <apachelogger> smarter: where? what?
[12:01] <smarter> http://forum.kubuntu-fr.org/viewtopic.php?pid=2114032#p2114032 this just let me know that Bespin plasmoid(xbar) makes Plasma crashes
[12:01] <smarter> I'll try to fix that this evening
[12:01]  * smarter is off to school
[12:01] <smarter> see ya
[12:01] <smarter> seems to be related to taskbar changes by JontheEchidna :P
[12:02] <smarter> when trying to build XBar again I get:
[12:02] <smarter> /usr/include/taskmanager/task.h:40:44: error: taskmanager/taskmanager_export.h: No such file or directory
[12:02] <apachelogger> why does bespin link against taskmanager at all?
[12:02] <smarter> bespin svn has a plasmoid inside
[12:02] <smarter> which is a taskbar replacement
[12:02] <smarter> à la OSX
[12:02] <apachelogger> Oo
[12:03] <apachelogger> and it is shipped with the style?
[12:03] <smarter> yes
[12:03] <apachelogger> -.-
[12:03] <smarter> yes, upstream should have made separate repos
[12:04] <smarter> bye
[12:04] <apachelogger> cya
[12:04] <smarter> /usr/include/taskmanager/task.h:40:44: error: taskmanager/taskmanager_export.h: No such file or directory
[12:04] <smarter> oops
[12:25] <JontheEchidna> ^base-workspace 0ubuntu6 fixed that, it causes lancelot to ftbfs too
[13:05] <apachelogger> oh
[13:05] <apachelogger> uh
[13:05] <apachelogger> \o/
[13:05] <apachelogger> wiki login works again
[13:05] <apachelogger> hooray
[13:08] <jussi01> oh, yay!!
[13:08] <jussi01> :D
[13:10] <Riddell> apachelogger: gosh, really?
[13:11] <apachelogger> last comment at bug 259436
[13:13] <Riddell> lovely
[13:13] <rgreening> OMG.. is that the OpenID problem resolved.. finally?
[13:13] <apachelogger> yus
[13:13]  * rgreening jumps for joy
[13:13] <rgreening> \o/
[13:14]  * apachelogger can edit the meeting agenda again :D
[13:14]  * rgreening wishes the webmins would be more rigorous in being standards compliant and test against Konqueror.
[13:14] <rgreening> too much broken CSS out there
[13:16] <apachelogger> hm kmenu shortcuts are pretty broken alright
[13:17] <JontheEchidna> Heh, figures they test the fix with an old konqueror :P
[13:19] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: if it works in the old, it works in the new :P
[13:27] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 188385 needs forwarding if you got a minute
[13:27]  * JontheEchidna was about to restart with the nv drivers instead of nouveau
[13:28] <Riddell> new koffice beta if anyone wants to package it
[13:29] <apachelogger> I can't build koffice2, my root partition is too small :S
[13:31] <rgreening> Riddell: I can take a shot
[13:31] <Riddell> a volunteer!
[13:31] <rgreening> :)
[13:32]  * rgreening looks around
[13:32] <rgreening> oh me.. :)
[13:32] <Hobbsee> NEW BLOOD!
[13:32] <rgreening> hahaha
[13:32] <Hobbsee> quick!  put him to work!
[13:32] <rgreening> I'm vintage, and you know things get better with age.
[13:32] <Hobbsee> you're not really making him start with koffice, are you?
[13:33] <rgreening> meh...
[13:33] <rgreening> I've figured out everything else thus far... how bad can Koffice be
[13:33] <rgreening> besides the long compile time
[13:34] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot151.png <-- check out my fancy lp :P
[13:35] <apachelogger> rgreening: well, we are talking beta here
[13:35] <apachelogger> that makes it a lot worse actually
[13:35] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I think we already have a bug for khotkeys being busted
[13:35] <rgreening> intrepid 7.10?
[13:35] <rgreening> :P
[13:35] <Riddell> apachelogger: got a stylesheet that has failed to load?
[13:36] <apachelogger> rgreening: compiles as long as Qt, the probability it will break is about as high as the kdepim one
[13:36] <apachelogger> Riddell: no, I adblocked all images
[13:36] <apachelogger> now it's almost fast
[13:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well, I am not sure it is really controlled by khotkeys
[13:36]  * rgreening downloads Koffice2...
[13:37] <apachelogger> rgreening: oh and it might fail for no apparent reason in the buildd build :P
[13:37] <rgreening> how much disk space is required to build
[13:37] <apachelogger> koffice is fun :D
[13:37] <apachelogger> rgreening: ~ 5 gig I'd say
[13:37] <apachelogger> that is including all the deps it needs to download
[13:38] <rgreening> sweet. 10 times that available
[13:38] <apachelogger> lucky you
[13:38] <rgreening> 160GB here. 80 for /home and 80 for everything else.
[13:38] <apachelogger> 70 home, 10 /
[13:38] <rgreening> home is at 91% .. me needs to move my pics off the drive.
[13:39] <apachelogger> that reminds me
[13:39] <apachelogger> I have around 500,000 empty files and around 150,000 almost empty dirs
[13:39] <apachelogger> bug triage is no fun...
[13:40] <rgreening> purge is your friend. Use synaptic to clean up obsolete packages.
[13:40]  * rgreening wishes Adept had as many features as the great synaptic
[13:40] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: btw, please try to change the summaries to something useful - (KDE Bookmark Editor 4.1.2) Moving or copying a bookmarks in to the end of the list in keditbookmarks crashes the editor <- way too long
[13:40] <JontheEchidna> to install gnome, simply type in sudo apt-get install firefox :P
[13:41] <apachelogger> that is still not fixed?
[13:41] <JontheEchidna> the bug is still open
[13:43] <apachelogger> ...
[13:44] <apachelogger> if the bug summary field was any smaller you could do one-char-per-edit-editing
[13:45] <JontheEchidna> ? Are we talking about the same bug?
[13:46] <Riddell> rgreening: up now at http://muse.19inch.net/~jr/tmp/koffice/
[13:46] <Riddell> rgreening: know what to do?
[13:46] <Riddell> rgreening: current packaging is at https://edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members-kde4/+archive?field.name_filter=koffice&field.status_filter=published
[13:47] <Riddell> bunzip; gzip -9; rename to koffice2_X.Y.orig.tar.gz; copy over old debian; dch -i
[13:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I am talking about the summary field in general
[13:47] <apachelogger> when doing edit description/tags
[13:47] <Riddell> debuild; check cmake output for new dependencies that it complains about
[13:47] <Riddell> coffee
[13:48] <JontheEchidna> oh, heh
[13:48] <Riddell> at the end run dh_install --sourcedir=debian/tmp --list-missing  to check all files are installed
[13:48] <apachelogger> *cough* pbuilder hooks *cough*
[13:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, I tested kickoffrc yesterday, works as expected, new kds already uploaded
[13:49] <apachelogger> Riddell: and please try #E9E8E8 as window background color
[13:49] <rgreening> Riddell: added repo and dl src now
[13:50] <apachelogger> doesn't make one blind but is not as dark as the oxygen one
[13:50] <apachelogger> pretty much in between I'd say :)
[13:51] <rgreening> apachelogger: pbuilder hooks?
[13:52] <apachelogger> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/pbuilder/pbuilder-hooks
[13:54] <rgreening> apachelogger: I use pbuilder. Is that what you meant or is 'hooks' some feature I need of pbuilder...
[13:55] <apachelogger> rgreening: hooks hook into pbuilder at certain stages
[13:55] <apachelogger> like before resolving dependencies one of the hooks is running apt-get update to make sure you get the latest packages
[13:55] <rgreening> ah. got a tut on what I should do? I like pbuilder
[13:55] <apachelogger> and one is for post-building to run list-missing
[13:56] <apachelogger> rgreening: read the readme, I guess ;-)
[13:56] <rgreening> hmm.. ok.
[13:56] <jussi01> hrm, kompozwer segfaults...
[13:58] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 208253
[13:59] <JontheEchidna> yus?
[14:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I like that olaf dood
[14:01] <JontheEchidna> :)
[14:01] <apachelogger> wah
[14:01] <apachelogger> bug 280615
[14:01] <apachelogger> how cool is that whats this entry
[14:02] <jussi01> bug 280740
[14:12] <rgreening> Riddell: Just looking at the todo list. Anything from there I can help with... polishing, testing or other?
[14:13] <JontheEchidna> There's always bug 278482
[14:14]  * JontheEchidna was mulling on doing it after he finishes up his physics hw
[14:14] <Riddell> rgreening: you mean as well as koffice 2?
[14:14] <rgreening> yep. multitask
[14:14] <rgreening> :)
[14:15] <rgreening> while it's compiling... do something else useful
[14:15] <Riddell> rgreening: further scim-bridge patching?
[14:15] <rgreening> sure... point me to the reqs.
[14:15] <Riddell> apps now take ages to startup if you have scim installed but not running
[14:15] <Riddell> nixternal tried to patch it but I don't think he got anywhere
[14:15] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: I've been beating on guidance-power-manager trying to get it to start if HAL is not running with no great success.
[14:16] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: do we want it to start?
[14:16] <Riddell> can it not just wait around seeing if hal has appeared occationally?
[14:16] <Riddell> or if that's hard, just have it quit
[14:16] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: If hal goes away while gpm is running the CPU stuff still works.
[14:17] <rgreening> Riddell: could it not try and launch hal?
[14:17] <ScottK-laptop> And gpm does just fine and notices when it appears.
[14:17] <ScottK-laptop> So I was gonna ask what rgreening just did.  Is it reasonable for gpm to try and start hal?
[14:17] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: ^^
[14:17] <rgreening> lol...
[14:17] <Riddell> hmm, usually if hal isn't running there's a good reason for that
[14:17] <ScottK-laptop> OK.
[14:18] <ScottK-laptop> My first try was to just ignore all the errors and get to a running state.
[14:18] <ScottK-laptop> Then it waits just fine.  That didn't go well.
[14:18] <rgreening> it should at least try and detect is hal isn't runing and offer a msg to the user indicating that hal isn't running...
[14:18] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: How is it going to do that?
[14:19] <rgreening> in the code, during the init, could it not check for hal?
[14:19] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.  It's the user notification part that's uncertain for me.
[14:20] <rgreening> ah. use kdialog
[14:20] <rgreening> possibly
[14:20] <ScottK-laptop> Printing to stdout so it ends up in .xsessions is easy.
[14:20] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: How's your python?
[14:20] <rgreening> lol. I can figure things out easy enough.
[14:21] <ScottK-laptop> OK.  I'm busy with $WORK now.  Wanna take a crack at it?
[14:21] <rgreening> whats the package name quidance-power-manager?
[14:21] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.
[14:21] <rgreening> ok. let me have a look.
[14:22] <ScottK-laptop> Just do 'sudo sh /etc/init.d/hal stop' and then exit and run guidance-power-manager and you'll get the error we're trying to fix.
[14:22] <rgreening> ok
[14:25] <rgreening> could use KPassivePopup... possibly
[14:31] <Riddell> guidance not quidance :)
[14:31] <ScottK-laptop> Err.  Right.
[14:32] <rgreening> yeah. I know... my typo
[14:37] <rgreening> Riddell: in powermanage.py there are vars S4_COMMAND and S3_COMMAND which point to /usr/local/bin hibernate and s2ram respectively... should these even be there or defined diff?
[14:37] <Riddell> I expect it's historical
[14:38] <Riddell> but I guess they would have been used if hal wasn't about in some early version
[14:38] <rgreening> yeah... there are hooks for it throughout the code. Probably should go at some point
[14:44] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: Is the desktop-team meeting currently in progress a useful place to whine about bluetooth?
[14:44] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: should be, pitti said he'd have it as an item
[14:45] <ScottK-laptop> OK.
[15:01] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: Have you heard back from Tonio at all about bluetooth?
[15:01] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: no.  nor kdesudo
[15:01] <ScottK-laptop> OK.
[15:10]  * apachelogger hates apparmor
[15:13] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: might be worth asking rdieter :)
[15:14] <ScottK> Riddell: Who is he?
[15:14] <Riddell> rdieter: do you know if kdebluetooth for kde 4 is working in fedora currently with bluez 4.12
[15:14] <Riddell> ScottK: fedora-kde man
[15:14] <ScottK> Ah.
[15:15] <ScottK> Excellent.  I don't see any patches mentioned in the spec file changelog.
[15:15] <rdieter> Riddell: kinda sorta works, I don't have bluetooth myself, but thats what I hear from others.
[15:16] <ScottK> rdieter: Are there patches in the package for it?  The vanilla upstream 0.2 seems very broken here.
[15:16] <rdieter> ScottK: I'll go check...
[15:16] <ScottK> Thanks.
[15:16] <Riddell> ScottK: mind we don't actually use vanilla upstream 0.2, we have that kblueplugd wrapper from allee
[15:16] <ScottK> True.
[15:16] <ScottK> So maybe that's where we have a problem.
[15:17] <rdieter> ScottK: vanilla here, no patches
[15:17] <Riddell> ScottK: does kbluetooth4 work for you?
[15:17] <ScottK> rdieter: Thanks.
[15:17] <ScottK> Riddell: No.  I'm the one that filed the initial bug.
[15:18] <Riddell> ScottK: the only bug I've seen talks about kblueplugd not /usr/bin/kbluetooth4
[15:18] <rdieter> Riddell: when you have a sec, I'd like to chat about your multimedia key patches (I so want that)
[15:18] <ScottK> Right, but that's what dies when you start up bluetooth.
[15:19] <Riddell> ScottK: which is?  how do you start up bluetooth?
[15:20] <Riddell> rdieter: needs an xmodmap file to run on login to set XF86AudioLowerVolume et al
[15:20] <ScottK> It's automatically started on startup, of course, and then K menu -> Internet -> Kdebluetooth4
[15:20] <Riddell> then kmix should just work
[15:20] <ScottK> Both crash.
[15:20] <rdieter> Riddell: "just work" with or without patching?
[15:21] <Riddell> rdieter: with patching kdemultimedia
[15:22] <rdieter> Riddell: coolness, any work/contact yet to get any of that upstream?  (either way, I'm game to help anywhere I can).
[15:23] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: If I run /usr/bin/kbluetooth4 directly it appears to start and my phone sees a device.
[15:23] <Riddell> rdieter: I suppose I could just apply the patch, but there still needs to be a way to map the keys to keycodes, also it's using a custom widget and should use knotify
[15:23] <ScottK-laptop> So it may be our wrapper that's the problem.
[15:23] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: can you transfer files?
[15:24] <rgreening> ScottK-laptop.. I think there' plenty of python bugginess to go around, including kblueplugd
[15:24] <rgreening> :)
[15:25] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: I'm pretty much a novice at bluetooth.  Intrepid is the first time I've had both hardware and a (briefly) working system.
[15:25] <ScottK-laptop> I can see the laptop, but not connect to it.
[15:25] <Riddell> bluetooth always seems like more of a novelty than someone I'd actually care about
[15:26] <ScottK-laptop> That is likely consistent with how I left it configured when last I had a working gui.
[15:26] <Riddell> s/someone/something/  I don't care about scandinavian kings either
[15:26] <ScottK-laptop> So I guess my answer is I don't know.
[15:26] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: ok so porting kblueplugd doesn't be hard to do except this is dbus and dbus is stupid can can't be introspected so I don't know how to find out the new API
[15:28] <ScottK-laptop> Well not entirely.
[15:29] <ScottK-laptop> I ran kbluetooth4-devicemanager manually and got ...
[15:29] <ScottK-laptop> process 20873: arguments to dbus_message_new_method_call() were incorrect, assertion "path != NULL" failed in file dbus-message.c line 1070.
[15:29] <Riddell> jings
[15:29] <ScottK-laptop> This is normally a bug in some application using the D-Bus library.
[15:29] <ScottK-laptop> QDBusConnection: error: could not send message to service "org.bluez" path "" interface "org.bluez.Adapter" member "DiscoverDevices"
[15:32] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 263438 renders adept close to unusable
[15:33] <JontheEchidna> Yeah, I've been using apt-cache search instead
[15:33] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: I really need to concentrate on $WORK now, so good luck figuring out making some progress on this.
[15:33] <JontheEchidna> but that bug really sucks
[15:35] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: yep. I've experienced that. Doesn't show all packages.
[15:35] <rgreening> I've had to use synaptic.
[15:36] <apachelogger> see
[15:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: in most cases a user will search for a package rather than a description
[15:36] <rgreening> exactly
[15:36] <apachelogger> we can't even advise people to install koffice-kde4, because they can't search for it
[15:36] <rgreening> the search should allow serach by package
[15:37] <snikker> i've removed the dvd-rw (/dev/scd1) and now, at boot after the step "waiting for resume device", the boot splash (gui) go in text mode... how can i solve this?
[15:38] <rgreening> apachelogger: I have a problem with pbuilder.. can you help? here's the paste: http://paste.ubuntu.com/55663/
[15:40] <apachelogger> rgreening: you need to activate universe
[15:40] <apachelogger> sudo pbuilder login --save-after-login
[15:40] <rgreening> oh. weird... never had an issue before...
[15:40] <apachelogger> edit the sources.list and ensure you get main restricted universe and multiverse
[15:41] <rgreening> ok.
[15:42] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 277322 sounds like a nvidia issue to me
[15:42] <apachelogger> or maybe powerdevil screws up
[15:43] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: Additionally, I'd advise setting PBUILDERSATISFYDEPENDSCMD="/usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends-classic" in your pbuilderrc.  I periodically have trouble with the new one.
[15:44] <rgreening> I never bothered to create a local rc file yet... :)
[15:44] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: You can also put it in /etc/pbuilderrc
[15:45] <ScottK-laptop> That's where I have it.
[15:48] <rgreening> apachelogger: ty. adding that and doing a pbuilder --update after seems to have fixed my problem.
[15:51] <seele> eek, adept's default size kindof sucks.. why is it so small
[15:53] <JontheEchidna> bug 260227
[15:54] <seele> JontheEchidna: we could probably fix that temporarily by adding a kwinrulesrc entry
[15:57] <apachelogger> well, we could as well just change the code, we are pretty much upstream and downstream, aren't we?
[15:59] <seele> we can do that at this point?
[16:00] <seele> i guess it would be a "bug fix"
[16:00] <rgreening> ScottK-laptop: the problem with guidance-power-manager is in the 'def _initHAL(self)'. It needs to catch the exception on attempting to create a hal_manager_obj. When it fails, it neds to do something graceful.
[16:01] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: Any thoughts on what would be graceful?  How about hang around and try again a minute later?
[16:04] <rgreening> not sure at this point. the problems are 1) the exception isn't tested/caught 2) what to do with the raised exception. So, I will tackle 1) first. get it to catch the exception and then 2) may come to me... It would be nice to notify user HAL is not running, and offer the user to exit power manager or try and start HAL. comments welcome
[16:07] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell already suggested starting HAL isn't a good idea in this case.
[16:07] <ScottK-laptop> So I think the choices are wait and see if it shows up or exit nicely.
[16:07] <rgreening> I guess, maybe tell it to sleep and try later...
[16:07] <rgreening> code re-write needed for this...
[16:13] <Riddell> now is not the time to be doing complex code changes, if it's best just to have it politely quit then do that
[16:13] <rgreening> I know. I'm checking alternatives... see what's quick and easy.
[16:16]  * apachelogger pokes Riddell with bug 272699
[16:16] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: btw, did ruphy and you work out the bug behind the wrong cursor icon in plasma?
[16:17] <JontheEchidna> I gave him the debuggy log
[16:20] <apachelogger> hm
[16:20] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that doesn't do much, ruphy is uber lazy :P
[16:21] <apachelogger> you will have to stuff it down his throat or something
[16:21] <apachelogger> bug 268434 <= foot!
[16:25] <apachelogger> ScottK-laptop: did you notice anything like bug 280786 after upgrading?
[16:27] <ScottK> apachelogger: Nope.
[16:27] <apachelogger> weird
[16:44] <rgreening> Riddell/ScottK-laptop: Is this better for guidance-power-manager error message? http://paste.ubuntu.com/55686/
[16:44] <rgreening> doesn't cause Python crashes anymore...
[16:45]  * ScottK-laptop looks
[16:46] <ScottK-laptop> Do we need lines two and three?
[16:47] <rgreening> lines two and 3 came from somewhere else in the code.
[16:47] <rgreening> not sure what generated them
[16:47] <rgreening> I'll paste the diff to review...
[16:47] <ScottK-laptop> Need to trap that too then.
[16:47] <ScottK-laptop> How about, "Failed to initialize Powermanager, unable to communicate with HAL - Is HAL running run 'sudo /etc/init.d/hal status' to find out.
[16:48] <rgreening> http://paste.ubuntu.com/55689/
[16:49] <rgreening> could do that... but it could be a dbus/hal comm error. hal could be running but b0rked. status may not offer more help
[16:49] <rgreening> Riddell ^^ have a look at the paste for the guidance changes. lmk if ok to package
[16:50] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: Why not wrap line 5 in a try/except and then exit with the message on the exception?
[16:52] <rgreening> ScottK-laptop... sure. never thought on that. I'm very new to python. This is the second app I've hacked on in python.. so still learning.
[16:52] <rgreening> I'll do up another stab at it.
[16:52] <rgreening> but I got real close :)
[16:52] <ScottK-laptop> Yeah.
[16:53] <rgreening> at least it doesn't crash and burn horribly.
[16:54] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.
[16:54] <rgreening> I have a feeling a lot of the other bugs with python may be similar. the dbus comm channel is down (hald-runner) and the apps do not properly check for that failed connection. Just a hunch though.
[16:55] <rgreening> so, something is possibly causing hald-runner to fail. if we nip that, then the others go away (mostly).
[16:55] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: Exception handling is a really powerful piece of Python.  It's not just a 'crash' it's a way of talking to higher level pieces of the code.  Catch it and then DTRT.
[16:55] <rgreening> yeah. similar to C++
[16:57] <JontheEchidna> Well, here goes nothing! http://jtechinda.blogspot.com/2008/10/kubuntu-blue-headed-stepchild.html
[16:57]  * JontheEchidna readies the flame shields
[17:03]  * ScottK begs people to stop 'me too' comments on the bluetooth bug.
[17:14] <rgreening> ScottK: re: guidance power manager... how would you re-write the first few lines of my diff in a try/except? suggestions?
[17:17] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: yay for complaining about ubuntu not being compatible with other standards browsers :)
[17:21] <Riddell> rgreening: on line 91 you have a general except statement, that should only catch the exception in question, else it's very easy to have errors introduced and not notice them
[17:21] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: Something like http://paste.ubuntu.com/55701/ (totally untested)
[17:24] <Riddell> apachelogger: you don't have compositing on but you still suffere from bug 272699 ?
[17:25] <Riddell> 17:08 < tpatzig> Riddell: kdebluetooth wont work with bluez4.x until solid-bluetooth is not ported to the bluez4.x api
[17:25] <Riddell> 17:16 < Riddell> tpatzig: hmm, that sounds non-trivial
[17:26] <Riddell> 17:18 < tpatzig> no, definitely not. not only the backend part for solid needs tobe changed, the new bluez4.x api breaks the whole solid-bluetooth abstraction layer api.
[17:26] <Riddell> 17:19 -!- allee [n=ach@allee.mpe.mpg.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
[17:26] <Riddell> 17:19 < tpatzig> its not a port ... it's more like a rewrite :)
[17:26] <Riddell> we're screwed
[17:28] <Riddell> apachelogger, JontheEchidna: I'm suspecting we might just be best to remove the kwin patch
[17:29] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: any way we could keep cube and friends?
[17:30] <Riddell> dunno, it's a nasty patch because it's hard to recreate the problem, it just happens sometimes, so it's hard to test if a change fixes the problems or not
[17:30] <JontheEchidna> on one hand remove the cube and such is really not nice,  but the regressions the patch introduces are nastier :(
[17:31] <JontheEchidna> and ocrap @ bluetooth
[17:36] <smarter> apachelogger or whoever has time: could you please upload kde4-style-bespin -0ubuntu3? bzr branch lp:~kubuntu-members/bespin/ubuntu bespin && cd bespin && bzr diff -r20..21 > bespin.debdiff
[17:37] <smarter> It fixes a bug, add a missing binary from the package, and fix a plasma crashes caused by the ABI break of taskmanager(due to the tooltip patch)
[17:37] <smarter> thanks ;)
[17:40] <apachelogger> on it
[17:46] <JontheEchidna> smarter: sorry about that ABI break... eheh ^_^
[17:47] <smarter> I forgive you :P
[17:48] <JontheEchidna> if it makes you feel better it borked lancelot too
[17:49] <smarter> I know, I used it :P
[17:49] <JontheEchidna> <.<
[17:49] <smarter> except that lancelot only stopped to work, XBar made plasma crashes
[17:50] <apachelogger> much to learn he has
[17:50] <JontheEchidna> "ABI changes after Beta is bad"
[17:50] <JontheEchidna> and
[17:50] <JontheEchidna> "more stuff used the taskmanager lib than I knew"
[17:50] <JontheEchidna> :P
[17:52] <apachelogger> "missing includes are not good either"
[17:53] <JontheEchidna> yeah...
[17:55] <smarter> also, any news on the l10n issue?
[17:56] <smarter> users are starting to moan
[17:57] <rgreening> Riddell: I'll try and re-work the diff some more.
[17:57] <rgreening> Riddell: regarding guidance..
[17:57] <apachelogger> smarter: I never stopped moaning
[17:57] <smarter> I moan too :P
[18:03] <apachelogger> smarter: do I need to have bespin running in order to use that xbar?
[18:03] <smarter> No
[18:03] <apachelogger> it certainly doesn't work here
[18:03] <smarter> you just have to drop it into a panel
[18:03] <apachelogger> ahhh
[18:03] <smarter> :)
[18:04] <apachelogger> haha
[18:04] <apachelogger> that thing did not just get crappy usability, it also looks like crap
[18:04] <apachelogger> \o/
[18:04] <apachelogger> like it :D
[18:05] <smarter> :P
[18:05] <apachelogger> ah
[18:05] <apachelogger> better with bespin
[18:05] <apachelogger> that plasmoid could really use some dialog boxes telling the user what he did wrong
[18:06] <apachelogger> smarter: up it goes
[18:06] <apachelogger> smarter: I also add a .bzr-builddeb dir
[18:06] <smarter> thanks
[18:18] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: So we just remove kdebluetooth, put it in the release notes and give #ubuntu-devel a sad pouty look?
[18:18] <smarter> what's preventing a downgrade of bluez?
[18:18] <ScottK-laptop> JontheEchidna: It ocurrs to me that breaking knetworkmanager in this cycle is another good example for your blog post.
[18:18] <JontheEchidna> why yes, I forgot
[18:19] <ScottK-laptop> smarter: It would break Ubuntu and apparently that's all that's particularly worried about.
[18:19] <smarter> can't they downgrade the gnome-bluetooth stuff so that it works with the old bluez?
[18:20] <ScottK-laptop> No.  The old bluez also has issues with the current kernel.
[18:20] <smarter> "Les jeux sont faits, nous sommes fucked" :P
[18:21] <ScottK-laptop> Yeah.
[18:21] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: I'm sad to say I can't think of anything else
[18:21] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: This is the 2nd major piece of breakage that Ubuntu has done to Kubuntu in this cycle.  I won't be at UDS, but I think this needs to be discussed.
[18:22] <ScottK-laptop> Riddell: Alternatively leave the broken package there and SRU the ported version when it appears.
[18:24] <rgreening> Riddell/ScottK: guidance patch here.. updated: http://paste.ubuntu.com/55731/
[18:25] <Riddell> ScottK-laptop: it would mean a backport of solid-bluetooth when that port happens, which would be non-trivial, but could work
[18:25] <ScottK-laptop> It's not like it'd get more broken.
[18:26] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: Looks generally sane.
[18:26] <rgreening> much cleaner now too. I read up some more on exception handling...
[18:26] <ScottK-laptop> Yeah
[18:27] <rgreening> now, if someone wants to expand on this idea.... right now it's exit if not running. maybe a while loop to try/sleep/fail a few times might be in order... thoughts
[18:27] <Riddell> rgreening: that looks good, nice and simple
[18:27] <rgreening> ty
[18:28] <rgreening> Riddell: I'll do up a debdiff for this. it gets us past the current prob anyway.
[18:29]  * Riddell out
[18:30] <apachelogger> ScottK-laptop: bug 262062
[18:30] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: I have the next upstream release to package, so just pastebin me your proposed changelog entry and as soon as I have enough time to retrain myself on how to use quilt I'll add it.
[18:30] <apachelogger> please get that triaged, I am trying to get rid of all the new bugs in kdebase
[18:31] <rgreening> ScottK-laptop.. if you want I can package it.
[18:32] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: It's done.  I just haven't uploaded it because I wanted to deal with this too
[18:32] <ScottK-laptop> apachelogger: Sure.
[18:33] <apachelogger> ScottK-laptop: ln -s debian/patches && quilt push OR quilt push -a OR quilt push $nameofpatch || quilt new $nameofpatch AND quilt add $filetobewatchedbyquilt AND kate $filetobewaatched AND quilt refresh AND quilt pop -a...
[18:34] <apachelogger> rm patches afterwards would be good as well :)
[18:35] <smarter> rgreening: I don't know what's your patch for, but have you tested if it break resume from hal restart?
[18:35] <smarter> rgreening: try launching guidance, and doing sudo /etc/init.d/hal stop
[18:36] <ScottK-laptop> smarter: It shouldn't and I"ll test for that.
[18:36] <smarter> then start
[18:36] <smarter> okay
[18:36] <ScottK-laptop> Your 4.1.2 package never got uploaded, so I'm taking this and adding it to that.
[18:38] <apachelogger> Is anyone here using scim?
[18:38] <apachelogger> or does anyone at least understand scim?
[18:38] <smarter> that yao_* guy does, but I don't know if asking him something is a good idea :P
[18:38]  * apachelogger doubts that :P
[18:41] <ScottK> apachelogger: Way harder than dpatch-edit-patch foo patch -p1<patch exit
[18:44] <apachelogger> ScottK: you just need to get used to it, then it is way more dynamic
[18:44] <apachelogger> especially because quilt got tons of features
[18:44] <ScottK> Currently I need it about once every other month, so I get to start from scratch each time.
[18:58] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: what to do about bug 237721?
[19:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: forwarding, confirming
[19:01]  * apachelogger is getting tired from looking at all the bug reports
[19:02] <JontheEchidna> kdebase is down to 20 new bugs :D
[19:03] <JontheEchidna> 19
[19:04] <rgreening> Riddell: wrt bluetooth, if we want to get it working again, what do we need to do? backport solid from 4.2? or something else?
[19:04] <ScottK-laptop> And rewrite it for the new API
[19:07] <rgreening> Riddell: wrt scim, was it scim or skim related or both?
[19:07] <rgreening> ScottK-laptop: can we use the existing solid and update the API in it?
[19:08] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: Dunno.  You've just exhausted my knowledge on the subject.
[19:08] <rgreening> lol
[19:16] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: how do you want to handle kdeprint/kprinter bugs?
[19:16] <JontheEchidna> on one hand, Qt's printing stuff probably isn't as good, but on the other hand we still don't have a kdeprint for KDE4
[19:18] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: find out if the problems still appears
[19:18] <apachelogger> if it does not close it, if the feature is missing turn the bug into a wish and add some information to the description
[19:32] <apachelogger> hm
[19:32] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I don't think the "what's this + link" issue in the plasmoid list is actually a Qt issue
[19:33] <JontheEchidna> my thought was that maybe it was a widgets on canvas issue or something
[19:33] <apachelogger> I just created an empty widget in designer, added a what's this, previewed it and when I click the link the what's this thingy is not disappearing
[19:33] <JontheEchidna> oh, the link issue
[19:33]  * JontheEchidna was thinking of the drawing issue
[19:34] <apachelogger> well
[19:34] <apachelogger> that is a Qt issue
[19:34] <JontheEchidna> yeah
[19:34] <apachelogger> that's why I opened designer to begin with :P
[19:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: maybe the link implimentation is just broken
[19:34] <apachelogger> since the what's this disappears I assume it got the click signal
[19:35] <apachelogger> so probably the link just doesn't get opened
[19:35] <apachelogger> anyway
[19:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the drawing issue is not a drawing issue
[19:35] <apachelogger> at least I don't see the issue
[19:35] <apachelogger> can you enlighten me?
[19:35] <JontheEchidna> click what is this on add widgets
[19:35] <JontheEchidna> then click on the desktop
[19:36] <JontheEchidna> the shadow is all corrupty
[19:36] <apachelogger> hm
[19:36]  * apachelogger blames kwin
[19:36] <JontheEchidna> no compositing here
[19:36] <apachelogger> well
[19:36] <apachelogger> my desktop also renders to crap
[19:36] <apachelogger> without compisiting
[19:36] <apachelogger> that whole patch is introducing too many issues for my liking
[19:36] <JontheEchidna> only does that for me with nouveau
[19:37] <JontheEchidna> I had that issue with nouveau way before that patch
[19:37] <apachelogger> never had it with intel
[19:37] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: do you have designer installed?
[19:37] <JontheEchidna> yus
[19:38] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot154.png
[19:40] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: some progress http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/qapkgstatus/kdebase
[19:41] <rgreening> apachelogger: I se the same issue. I have shadows disabled, perhaps related?
[19:41] <rgreening> wrt the what's this correuption
[19:41] <apachelogger> rgreening: does look worse then in the screenshot I pasted?
[19:41] <rgreening> 1 sec
[19:42] <rgreening> yes
[19:42] <apachelogger> ok, either KDE broke it or the kwin patch did
[19:42] <rgreening> it's def a shadows thing
[19:42]  * apachelogger fires up his hardy vm
[19:42] <rgreening> I'll try with shadows
[19:42] <apachelogger> rgreening: it's fake shadow from qt
[19:43] <apachelogger> or
[19:43] <apachelogger> it is supposed to be, but it is on in our KDE ;-)
[19:43] <JontheEchidna> man, adept used to have 0 new, 0 confirmed, all triaged
[19:44] <rgreening> it's worse with shadows enabled
[19:44] <JontheEchidna> oh wells, bugs happen
[19:44] <apachelogger> well
[19:44] <apachelogger> KDE screwup
[19:44] <apachelogger> the vanilla KDE in hardy does also have wrong fake shadows sometimes
[19:45] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: clicking on something without a "Waht's This" help thing in Qt designer gives the same "send us your help thingy" that KDE does
[19:45] <rgreening> hmm.. gross. fire upstream
[19:45] <JontheEchidna> I'd think that KDE isn't defining a url for sending stuff
[19:45] <apachelogger> possible
[19:48]  * rgreening runs and hides... more n-m updates... waits for breakages to k-n-m again
[19:49]  * JontheEchidna dances since he doesn't need nm anymore
[19:51] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: doing it manually? or using wicd?
[19:51] <rgreening> or..
[19:51] <JontheEchidna> I have wired so it's really easy to set up in /etc/interfaces/network
[19:52] <rgreening> I have wired, wireless, and travel alot with my lappy... so I need it functional
[19:52] <txwikinger> and what is user Joe supposed to do? Editing /etc/interfaces/network?
[19:52] <rgreening> hehe
[19:52] <JontheEchidna> I'm not saying it's a good solution for everyone, but I'm happy I don't have to deal with it personally :P
[19:55] <rgreening> brb.. rebooting.
[19:55] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: can you reproduce 280450 ?
[19:55] <JontheEchidna> bug 280450
[19:55] <JontheEchidna> nope, I would have noticed that by now
[19:55] <apachelogger> txwikinger: forward porting the old network config thingy is on my todo
[19:55] <apachelogger> the KDE 4 on eis completely borked
[19:56] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: there is a precise description in the last comment
[19:56] <txwikinger> apachelogger: Ist KDE4 on intrepid stable enough for a presentation on the Linux Fest?
[19:57] <apachelogger> I ain't got no crashes
[19:57] <apachelogger> but there is always a good chance ubuntu bumps Xorg to version which doesn't support KDE
[19:57] <JontheEchidna> \o/
[19:58] <JontheEchidna> They did that for the legacy nvidia drivers, but that's what we get I guess
[19:58] <txwikinger> well, I will blame all problems on ubuntu then :D
[19:58] <JontheEchidna> that's the spirit!
[19:58] <JontheEchidna> :P
[19:58] <apachelogger> <3
[19:59] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: when you are done with the sdk one, take a look at bug 280626
[19:59]  * apachelogger can't read anymore
[20:00] <apachelogger> stupids eys cause pain
[20:00] <JontheEchidna> Still can't reproduce the kate one
[20:00] <apachelogger> me neither
[20:00] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: please request the css file
[20:01] <apachelogger> anyawy
[20:01] <apachelogger> I am off
[20:09] <JontheEchidna> Most times the dupe checker is more helpful for finding an upstream bug than the bug search, \o/
[20:30] <rgreening> OMFG! n-m broke k-n-m AGAIN!
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> are you serious?
[20:30] <rgreening> yep
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> ...
[20:30] <rgreening> I had to manually reconf to get on
[20:30]  * rgreening so ticked at Gnome centric devs
[20:31] <ScottK> Interesting.  superm1 claimes he's fixed kdebluetooth
[20:31] <rgreening> no consideration
[20:31] <rgreening> well, we got another kettle of fish with k-n-m
[20:34] <JontheEchidna> rgreening: filed a bug report?
[20:34]  * ScottK carefully installs the OTHER upgrades
[20:34] <rgreening> no. I just got online
[20:34] <rgreening> so peeved
[20:35] <rgreening> doing it now
[20:35] <JontheEchidna> "lol let's go around uploading svn snapshots but let's not even consider that it might break other network managers"
[20:35] <ScottK> Missed the libnm ones.  Urgh.
[20:36] <ScottK> rgreening: Give me the bug number when you have it.  I should be able to confirm in a moment.
[20:36] <ScottK> So it's even a reboot required one.
[20:37] <rgreening> k
[20:40] <JontheEchidna> Sure it's not just an ABI change?
[20:41] <dstambou> quick question, is it GKdevelop or GKdevelop3 (or does it not matter?) to send to cmake to build kdevelop project?
[20:42] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: Works here after the upgrade.
[20:42] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: What wireless do you have?
[20:42] <rgreening> ScottK-laptop: really?
[20:42] <rgreening> only broken for me?
[20:42] <ScottK-laptop> Yep.
[20:43] <ScottK-laptop> Can't say.  All I can say is not broken for me.
[20:43] <rgreening> what version of network-manager
[20:43] <rgreening> and are you using knm and do not have nm-applet running
[20:43] <rgreening> I'm using wired
[20:44] <ScottK-laptop> Whatever apt just handed me.
[20:44] <ScottK-laptop> I'm using wireless.  Let me try wired.
[20:45] <ScottK-laptop> If you see this, wired works too.
[20:45]  * JontheEchidna sees it
[20:45] <rgreening> DAMN
[20:45] <rgreening> why me
[20:46] <ScottK> Actually no.  It hadn't switched yet.
[20:46] <ScottK-laptop> rgreening: Is this thing on?
[20:46] <JontheEchidna> ... hope that's not bad
[20:46] <ScottK> No
[20:47] <rgreening> working?
[20:47] <JontheEchidna> oh, just your laptop
[20:47] <ScottK> I'm going to boot with just wired and see what happens
[20:47] <rgreening> that's what I did
[20:47] <rgreening> bug 280919
[20:47] <ScottK> It did get very laggy after I switched.
[20:50] <rgreening> ScottK: results?
[20:51] <ScottK> System is still coming up
[20:52] <ScottK> Yes I have a network, but no, I don't have the KNM icon.
[20:53] <rgreening> Ok, you must have some manual stuff there
[20:53] <rgreening> I need someone else to test
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> knm was busted for me before the upgrade, can't help ya there
[20:53] <rgreening> Riddell: ping-ping-ping
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> actually, networkmanager in general
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> I couldn't even access the network from the console
[20:54] <rgreening> NCommander? there?
[20:54] <JontheEchidna> pinging the router would bring a destination host unreachable
[20:54] <JontheEchidna> guess not
[20:54] <ScottK> rgreening: Nope.  I ran sudo sh /etc/init.d/networking stop and I still have a network.
[20:55] <rgreening> ScottK: then you aren't using NetworkManager.
[20:56] <ScottK> I started Knetwork manager from the K menu and it comes up without the correct icon.  It says eth0 is active
[20:56] <rgreening> I need someone who has knm working and can test/verify
[20:56] <rgreening> ScottK: which it may detect if it's already confg
[20:56] <ScottK> OK.
[20:56] <rgreening> is network-manager running
[20:57] <ScottK> It'd show up with ps, right?
[20:57] <rgreening> yeah
[20:57] <rgreening> oh, NetworkManager maybe
[20:57] <ScottK> That shows knetworkmanager
[20:57] <ScottK> Yes.  It's running (with the capital N)
[20:58] <rgreening> ps -eaf | grep etwork
[20:58] <ScottK> Yep.  Both there.
[20:58] <rgreening> should show nm-system-settings, knetworkmanager and NetworkManager
[20:59] <ScottK> Grep etwork won't get the first one.
[20:59] <ScottK> That's there too.
[21:00] <rgreening> with ps -eaf it does
[21:00] <rgreening> :)
[21:00] <rgreening> shows the params
[21:00] <ScottK> ps -AF|grep etwork works.
[21:00] <rgreening> ok, need someone esle to test
[21:00] <ScottK> I also mistyped the commands.
[21:00] <rgreening> It can't be just me
[21:01] <rgreening> I have to go. I'll jump back later. in th emeantime, see if you can find someone else to test/verify.
[21:08] <ScottK> rgreening: I gave you some support in the bug.
[21:51] <_StefanS_> evening
[21:51]  * Riddell directs apachelogger's gaze towards #kubuntu
[21:51] <Riddell> hi _StefanS_
[21:51] <_StefanS_> wowsers... long time ago :(
[21:53] <_StefanS_> Riddell: is that bluetooth thing still an issue ? I just read a blog where someone mentions the current state of kubuntu
[21:53] <Riddell> yeah, it's all broken for us :(
[21:53]  * jjesse points at JontheEchidna
[21:55] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I was trying to look at it now, but it seems like some of the buildeps cannot be satisfied (libstrigiqtdbusclient-dev: Depends: libstrigiqtdbusclient0 (= 0.5.11-1) but 0.5.11-1ubuntu0~hardy0~ppa1 is to be installed)
[21:56] <Riddell> _StefanS_: build deps for what?
[21:57] <_StefanS_> Riddell: for kdebluetooth
[21:58] <_StefanS_> hmm maybe I've got some local inconsistencies.. checking that out now
[22:09] <_StefanS_> I will look at it tomorrow
[22:09] <_StefanS_> night.
[22:13] <Riddell> hello robertknight
[22:13] <Riddell> rgreening: you pung?
[22:20] <robertknight> Hi
[22:20] <robertknight> Riddell
[22:37] <rgreening> Riddell: yeah. knm issues with recent nm updates
[22:39] <Riddell> crivvens
[22:39] <rgreening> yep
[22:40] <rgreening> so not happy. wireless seems hoaky, but works if I manually click AP. Wired is b0rked. had to maually config
[22:43] <jtechidna> haha
[22:43] <jtechidna> so I tell brasero to start in the systray
[22:43] <jtechidna> and it gives me a dolphin icon there
[22:43] <jtechidna> actually it puts dolphin in the systray
[22:44] <jtechidna> whoa, this is weird
[23:18] <kwwii> window close
[23:18] <kwwii> erm
[23:29] <ScottK> FYI, Bug #280997