[00:03] <maco> i cant edit bug statuses from within intrepid.  works fine on hardy. anyone else?
[00:03] <bdmurray> not me
[00:04] <maco> it does the load-forever-then-blank-page thing
[00:04] <bdmurray> I'm not familiar with that thing
[00:05] <bdmurray> does it happen a lot?
[00:06] <maco> its sort of a timeout, i guess. the +editstatus page just doesn't load sometimes. does't load at all on intrepid
[00:06] <maco> the vm does reach the internet though. i can get to google.
[00:07] <maco> the info doesnt get submitted
[00:10] <mrooney> Hm I am not familiar with that issue either, maco
[00:16] <bdmurray> does cups-pdf and printing work for anyone?
[00:16] <bdmurray> on Intrepid
[00:17] <maco> hrm ive had hardy do that before, but refreshing usually fixes it, sometimes with a launchpad oops page (in that case, one more refresh, and it submits)
[00:22] <bdmurray> bug 273912
[00:34] <maco> restarted firefox, still can't submit changes to bugs
[00:34] <greg-g> maco: in a vm?
[00:34] <greg-g> I have no issue here using an "on the hardware" install
[00:35] <maco> greg-g: yeah, in a vm
[00:35] <maco> the vm doesn't detect that it's online because network manager suddenly decided between reboots that my interface is unmanaged
[00:35] <maco> but i took ff out of offline mode manually and i can load pages just fine...but can't submit edits on bugs
[00:36] <maco> i have no idea how to make nm manage the interface again. 0.7 has an all-sorts-of-jacked-up UI
[00:37] <mrooney> bdmurray: I just printed a PNG from EOG to PDF just fine.
[00:37] <crimsun> maco: kill your edits to interfaces(5), log out and back in
[00:38] <bdmurray> mrooney: I'm trying to recreate 273912 - firefox to cups-pdf
[00:39] <mrooney> bdmurray: cups-pdf is the PDF radiobox option in the "Print to file", right?
[00:39] <maco> crimsun: i havent edited anything having to do with interfaces
[00:40] <bdmurray> mrooney: no, it's a separate package
[00:40] <greg-g> maco: no idea about that, weird
[00:40] <maco> mrooney: it makes PDF be an option for what printer to use
[00:41] <maco> greg-g: ive had it happen on hardy before, at random. intrepid does it constantly :-/
[00:41] <crimsun> maco: reproduce it in an intrepid chroot
[00:41] <mrooney> maco: oh, what is the rationale to install that over using Print to File/PDF
[00:42] <maco> mrooney: easier than remembering to hit Print to File? dunno...
[00:42] <maco> crimsun: woosh
[00:42] <crimsun> maco: come again?
[00:42] <bdmurray> mrooney: it'll print to ~/PDF ?
[00:42] <maco> crimsun: over my head
[00:42] <crimsun> maco: later.
[00:42] <mrooney> bdmurray: hm, ok
[00:45] <bdmurray> "roviding a PDF printer on the central fileserver"
[00:47] <maco> mrooney: you dont have to have a real printer configured in order to use it
[00:48] <greg-g> you can print without printing!
[00:49] <mrooney> but, isn't that what the "Print to File" default printer does?/
[00:49] <maco> mrooney: i think you need to have a real printer setup to do that though...
[00:49] <james_w> mrooney: not every app has that
[00:49] <mrooney> I thought the PDF printer was removed in Intrepid because the PDF option was added to Print to File
[00:49] <maco> crimsun: bug 280417
[00:49] <maco> crimsun: thatd be the one i was talking about
[00:50] <mrooney> james_w: oh I see, things that don't use the native print dialog, perhaps?
[00:50] <bdmurray> mrooney: hmm, that'd be interesting to try and figure out
[00:50] <james_w> mrooney: yeah, and command line apps I guess.
[00:50] <Awsoonn> pong asac ~
[00:50] <maco> hrm, would network manager refusing to use any interfaces be High or Critical?
[00:51] <bdmurray> mrooney: ah, from main to universe in intrepid
[00:51] <bdmurray> thanks!
[00:51] <asac> Awsoonn: hi.
[00:51] <asac> Awsoonn: i think i said all. i added some info the wiki page :)
[00:52] <Awsoonn> hi there~ right on!
[00:52] <asac> maco: if you have something in /etc/network/interfaces you could try to set managed=true in /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf
[00:52] <asac> and killall nm-system-settings :)
[00:53] <maco> .... uh, ok intrepid + launchpad in my vm is majorly broken. i cant commit to 5-a-day
[00:54] <greg-g> maco: and it is only launchpad, no other sites are exhibiting this issue?
[00:54] <maco> greg-g: google's fine
[00:55] <greg-g> maco: try to edit a wikipedia article (just to confirm the act of sending POSTS and such via http)
[00:55] <maco> facebook's fine
[00:55] <greg-g> or ubuntu wiki
[00:55] <maco> i was able to login to launchpad
[00:55] <maco> and i can send POST to login to facebook
[00:56] <greg-g> dunno
[00:56] <mrooney> hmm, seems like a lot of people in Intrepid are getting bug 145360, although someone combined a ton of the dupes into one bug report, I am not sure properly
[00:56] <maco> asac: set managed=true?  where? there's nothing anywhere about managed= anything
[00:57] <asac> maco: i wrote everything above ;)
[00:57] <asac> e.g. in which file
[00:58] <maco> asac: doh missed the in.... part
[00:58] <asac> if its nm 0.6 then its not applicable. i guessed you are talking about latest NM 0.7
[00:58] <maco> yeah, intrepid's NM after the last updates started claiming all devices were unmanaged
[01:00] <bdmurray> mrooney: could you add that to the release meeting discussion?
[01:08] <maco> asac: ok that makes NM behave and now 5-a-day works. firefox is still being stupid.
[01:08] <maco> well, by 5-a-day works, i mean it reaches the server...i have to figure out how this bzr break lock thing works now
[01:09] <crimsun> login first, or use bzr+ssh://maco.m@bazaar.launchpad.net/~maco.m/foobarbaz explicitly
[01:11] <maco> crimsun: oh ok thanks
[01:14] <maco> crimsun: at some point i need to learn more how this bzr stuff works
[01:35] <mrooney> bdmurray: sure, where might I find this, is it a wiki page?
[01:35] <mrooney> google and wiki search is unable to help me, apparently
[01:37] <bdmurray> mrooney: sorry - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/ReleaseReports
[01:37] <bdmurray> actually the page is unmade for this week's meeting
[01:37] <mrooney> well I can make it based on the last one
[01:37] <mrooney> without those bugs, of course
[01:37] <bdmurray> thanks!
[01:40] <mrooney> bdmurray: it is 10/10, I assume?
[01:40] <bdmurray> 10-4
[01:40] <bdmurray> ;)
[01:48] <greg-g> uh oh, and now she lost all internet connection
[01:49] <crimsun> she has to eat dinner
[01:51] <bdmurray> ah, that sounds like a good idea
[01:53] <mrooney> oh whoops I did it as 10/10, can you rename a wiki page?
[01:54] <mrooney> ...got it.
[01:57] <mrooney> bdmurray: wait, what is going on, 10-04 already happened
[01:57] <greg-g> a gig of free memory is not enough to analyze the problem and report it to launchpad? Is that what you are saying apport?
[01:57]  * mrooney head explodes
[01:57] <greg-g> mrooney: 10-4 as in "ok"
[01:57] <greg-g> or "yes"
[01:58] <mrooney> greg-g: oooh, I see! haha
[01:58] <greg-g> yep :)
[01:58] <mrooney> I think I would have gotten it in any context OTHER than in answer to an early october date
[01:58] <greg-g> right, which is why it was a good pun :)
[01:59] <mrooney> are lots of people getting bug 280417?
[01:59] <mrooney> it doesn't seem critical otherwise
[02:03] <bcurtiswx> all, has the flashplugin-nonfree update that was in intrepid today been backported to hardy?
[02:04] <bcurtiswx> since both use FF3
[02:07] <bcurtiswx> i see in packages.ubuntu.com that hardy backports and intrepid main have both a very similar version number for the flashplugin-nonfree package.
[02:08] <bcurtiswx> So since its in backports, is it smart to tell the bug reporter to download the backported update, or is there too big of a risk ?
[02:11] <Hobbsee> it shouldn't be much of a risk
[02:12] <Hobbsee> seeing as it should be the same package, if they have very similar versions
[02:12] <bcurtiswx> ok
[02:12] <bcurtiswx> ty
[02:31] <bcurtiswx> Will Bug Triage please set bug #278405 to low priority
[02:37] <mrooney> bcurtiswx: done! thanks for confirming.
[02:38] <bcurtiswx> mrooney, thanks!
[03:03] <mrooney> has anyone noticed that the blank screensaver fades to black and then goes away right when the cursor would normally disappear and blank?
[03:03] <mrooney> for example if I set my screensaver to activate after 1 minute of idle, it will fade to black and then pop back to normal right after, once every minute
[03:11] <bcurtiswx> yup
[03:12] <bcurtiswx> mrooney, yes
[03:12] <bcurtiswx> it can be fairly entertaining when you're extremely bored though
[03:13]  * Hobbsee is sure games exist for that purpose.  Try wesnoth.
[03:13] <bcurtiswx> haha :P
[03:15] <mrooney> hm, I wonder then, if anyone CAN'T confirm it
[03:15] <greg-g> I can confrim it, is there a bug?
[03:15] <greg-g> :)
[03:15] <RAOF> Anyone who doesn't have "unredirect fullscreen windows" enabled won't be able to reproduce it :)
[03:16] <greg-g> ah, so I see SOMEONE knows what causes it ;)
[03:17] <RAOF> Not so much what causes it, but what triggers it.
[03:17] <greg-g> right
[03:18] <greg-g> wait, why do I have two screensaver entries in System->Prefs ?
[03:18] <Hobbsee> because one isn't enoguh!
[03:19] <bucket529> Could someone please change bug  263560 from 'undecided' to  'wishlist'?
[03:21] <RAOF> greg-g: Because xscreensaver got pulled in by recommends again.
[03:21] <bcurtiswx> greg-g good question.. me too
[03:21] <bcurtiswx> you report, i'll confirm
[03:22] <RAOF> Except it's already been reported, and fixed in the last run.
[03:22] <bcurtiswx> good
[03:22] <bcurtiswx> my fingers are hurtin
[03:22] <bcurtiswx> im participating in the hugday
[03:22] <bucket529> Also, could someone please change bug 268677 from 'undecided' to 'wishlist'?
[03:22] <RAOF> Well, it won't actually _fix_ it for you; you'll need to remove xscreensaver yourself.  But it will no longer be automatically pulled in.
[03:24] <bucket529> Aha! Another! Could someone please change bug 271575 from 'undecided' to 'wishlist'?
[03:26] <mrooney> RAOF: is there already a bug for the screensaver fullscreen redirect issue?
[03:26] <RAOF> mrooney: There is indeed.
[03:26] <RAOF> Oh.  I should check out whether the Compiz ppa packages fix it.
[03:28] <greg-g> yeah, so, in simply trying to change my monitor's refresh rate, I have now lost the ability to run compiz
[03:28] <greg-g> :(
[03:28] <RAOF> Hurray for nvidia?
[03:28] <greg-g> RAOF: thanks, removed xscreensaver
[03:29] <greg-g> yep
[03:30] <greg-g> any magical insights into this issue, RAOF ?
[03:30] <Hobbsee> fairies are good.
[03:30] <greg-g> hmmm, now where did I put them?
[03:32] <greg-g> ok, brb, restarting, I reinstalled the driver (in jockey, or whatever it is called now)
[03:35] <bucket529> Hmmm. bug 177104 is a great wishlist item, but for which package or project?
[03:35] <Hobbsee> that's already been discussed on the ML, sort of
[03:36] <greg-g> ok, back, with a happy display again.  Thank you nvidia.
[03:38] <RAOF> Isn't there alreayd a system wide units setting?
[03:38] <RAOF> Sorry, there isn't, is there.  Neither should there be!
[03:39] <RAOF> SI 4eva!
[03:53] <mrooney> RAOF: any link on that bug? :)
[04:06] <RAOF> mrooney: The compiz-screensaver bug?
[04:06] <techno_freak> weird, gnome-do doesn't show anything that's in the application menu :s
[04:08] <mrooney> RAOF: yeah
[04:08] <mrooney> haha there it goes again
[04:09] <mrooney> if you could set your screensaver to less than one minute, it really WOULD be a fun game
[04:09] <RAOF> techno_freak: Yeah, that's bug something or other.  Updating right now should fix it for you.
[04:09] <mrooney> You could watch movies in strobe-light vision.
[04:10] <techno_freak> RAOF, or should I get it from the PPA? I am trying out on a fresh install of intrepid beta
[04:10] <RAOF> techno_freak: Gnome-do?  Please test Intrepid's packages.
[04:10] <techno_freak> RAOF, ok, will try again :)
[04:11] <RAOF> You need the new libgnomedesktop2.20-cil; the previous upload was broken(ish).
[04:11] <mrooney> Ooooh Gnome-Do works again!
[04:15] <bdmurray> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18298913/lp-bug-Guest_Session-annoyingbeep.avi
[04:19] <nullack> bdmurray: Hi, thanks for letting into bug control Brian
[04:19] <RAOF> mrooney: You were after the screensaver bug?
[04:20] <RAOF> mrooney: bug #278112 is somewhere in the duplicate chain :)
[04:20] <bdmurray> nullack: no problem sorry for the delay, things are quite busy
[04:21] <nullack> :)
[04:22] <techno_freak> RAOF, it works now :)
[04:23] <RAOF> Well, at least that gnome-desktop-sharp bug clears one thing up: the lack of bugs filed against gnome-do isn't because we don't have any intrepid testers!
[04:23] <maco> RAOF: gnome-desktop-sharp?
[04:23] <RAOF> maco: The package which caused Do to fail to index applications.
[04:25] <bucket529> Srill looking for help changing bug 263560, bug 268677, and bug 271575 to 'wishlist'
[04:28] <maco> RAOF: oh
[04:29] <maco> bucket529: got 'em
[04:44] <bucket529> maco: Thanks
[04:50] <bdmurray> mrooney: did you submit an update-manager stalled bug?  we were talking about it this morning
[04:51] <mrooney> nope I didn't make a bug for that
[04:54] <bdmurray> hmm, I've just had it happen again
[04:57] <mrooney> bdmurray: do you think the m-a bugs are worthy of adding as one item to the ReleaseReports, specifically that Pidgin is listed as Gaim and Firefox 3 migrations don't work?
[04:59] <bdmurray> mrooney: I think there is an ubuntu-releasenotes project you could add a task for it to get someone's opinion
[05:05] <mrooney> Interesting, okay
[05:06] <mrooney> I just feel like not being able to migrate Firefox 3 bookmarks (when it implies that it can) is kind of a killer at this point of Firefox 3's popularity, relative to Firefox users.
[05:09] <bdmurray> I think documenting it would be good but it's ultimately up to the release team.  Adding the text to the wiki page for them already would be helpful I'm sure.
[05:11] <mrooney> bdmurray: okay, and when you say wiki page are you referring to the ReleaseReports page I created, or a different one?
[05:12] <maco> cant migrate firefox 3 bookmarks?
[05:12] <maco> what do you mean?
[05:18] <mrooney> maco: in migration-assistant, it offers to import things such as Firefox bookmarks
[05:18] <mrooney> but importing from Firefox 3 isn't implemented AFAIK
[05:18] <mrooney> it was written for Firefox 2
[05:19] <maco> mrooney: oh ok. does migration-assistant do migrations from linux yet, or still just windows?
[05:21] <mrooney> maco: it does linux and windows, though has more options for Windows generally
[05:22] <mrooney> which seems funny since it is basically copying directories from ~/
[05:23] <crimsun> [wishlist] have a migration-assistant option to move ~/.mozilla and ~/.thunderbird-3.0 to ~/Private/.
[05:23] <mrooney> I suggested to evand to just copy .mozilla and .purple for the linux migrations
[05:23] <mrooney> crimsun: yeah but it doesn't even do that, that belongs more in the dist-upgrade doesn't it
[05:24] <maco> i need to figure out how to make ~/Private on Hardy so i can avoid intrepid
[05:24] <maco> even if there was any other big thing i wanted from intrepid, the fact that it kernel panics on my wireless card makes it a no-go
[05:26] <mrooney> maco: ouch, I assume you filed a bug?
[05:27] <maco> mrooney: oh i havent tried it on my hardware. i know about the bug's existence, so i'm staying away
[05:27] <maco> mrooney: it's the iwlagn causes kernel panic one
[05:29] <mrooney> maco: ahh, bug 276990? should probably be confirmed
[05:29] <mrooney> comment 7 seems to agree so I'll Confirm
[05:31] <bdmurray> mrooney: in the known issues section of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex/TechnicalOverview
[05:33] <mrooney> ahh, great, thanks!
[05:33] <mrooney> bdmurray: is bug 276990 something ogasawara should take a peek at?
[05:36] <bdmurray> mrooney: it still seems a bit incomplete - I see no log of the kernel panic
[05:37] <mrooney> bdmurray: okay, perchance I can take a peek at it more tomorrow
[05:37] <mrooney> good night for now!
[05:37] <bdmurray> I'll keep the tab open too
[05:40] <maco> bdmurray: how does one log a kernel panic?
[05:40] <maco> bdmurray: i get kernel panics every few days, but nothing's ever in any log i've seen
[05:42] <maco> kind of suspect they might be related to hardy's driver for the same hardware
[05:42] <bdmurray> I was thinking of oopses
[05:43] <crimsun> OOPSes will (well, should) be in /var/log/kern.log at the least
[05:43] <crimsun> if you're pedantic enough to have a serial console for debugging, you may get more
[05:43] <maco> crimsun: and a serial port
[05:43] <crimsun> also:
[05:43] <crimsun> linux-backports-modules-2.6.24-21-generic | 2.6.24-21.27 | hardy-proposed | amd64, i386
[05:44] <maco> i dont think my VGA port counts, even if VGA and serial are similarly shaped
[05:44] <crimsun> you probably want to give that a twirl for your nic{,s}
[05:46] <maco> crimsun: will try
[05:57] <maco> crimsun: libasound2-plugins and then asoundconf set-pulseaudio for flash+PA on intrepid, right?
[05:58] <e-jat> bug 263555
[05:59] <e-jat> anyone know how to fix eeprom/nvm ?
[05:59] <e-jat> even its get fixed in new kernel .. but mine still can make it work ..
[06:02] <maco> e-jat: you mean you have the damaged rom and want to figure out how to repair it?
[06:02] <e-jat> :(
[06:03] <e-jat> to i need to flash/update my bios?
[06:03] <e-jat> do*
[06:04] <e-jat> maco, kind of i think .. coz i can fixed it even upgrade to 2.6.27-6
[06:04] <maco> e-jat: maybe? i think there were some reports that bios updates could rewrite the rom, but it's not guaranteed
[06:04] <maco> you can fixed it?
[06:04] <e-jat> nope .. i think if my rom damaged .. how could windows doesnt get any prob with it ..
[06:04] <e-jat> im wonder y ..
[06:05] <maco> ah ok, are you testing with the beta CD or is it installed?
[06:05] <maco> the beta cd has the driver disabled because it wasnt fixed as of the beta's release
[06:05] <maco> if you grab a daily cd, the driver is re-enabled
[06:06] <e-jat> maco .. i upgrade it since alpha4
[06:09] <e-jat> maco, until now i get this -> http://paste.ubuntu.com/55515/
[06:10] <e-jat> now survive using wifi ..
[06:12] <e-jat> someone ?
[06:12] <maco> dunno
[07:49] <highvoltage> If I triage a hug day big today, is there a tag I should add or something?
[07:54] <MTecknology> what's the right thing to do on a bug that's ready to expire?
[07:54] <maco> highvoltage: for 5-a-day?
[07:54] <maco> highvoltage: or in launchpad?  in launchpad, no
[07:54] <maco> highvoltage: for 5-a-day, it's on the hug day page
[07:54] <MTecknology> lp
[07:55] <persia> MTecknology, Generally try harder to triage it.  If it's incomplete, and unresponded, and been that way for a long time, it may be that it would benefit from another poke to the submitter.
[07:55] <maco> MTecknology: i'd prompt them to provide the information requested with a warning that it'd be closed soon if they didn't. then make a note to come back to it and check
[07:55] <MTecknology> This bug report was marked for expiration 330 days ago. (find out why)
[07:56] <persia> MTecknology, which bug?
[07:56] <highvoltage> maco: ok
[07:56] <MTecknology> but 139562
[07:56] <MTecknology> bug*
[07:57] <MTecknology> I just saw it and wanted to do something to do something - but I wanna make sure I know I'm doing the right thing
[08:02] <MTecknology> persia: what can I do with that bug?
[08:09] <persia> MTecknology, I'm really not sure.  I'd probably ignore it and leave it for the Ubuntero.org team.  Based on their webpage, it seems there's some plan to relaunch in the future differently.
[08:10] <MTecknology> oh - oops
[08:12] <MTecknology> I should just give up trying to help with bugs for a while
[08:13] <persia> MTecknology, No, it's good to help, but it's easier to get good advice from this channel when chasing bugs in Ubuntu :)
[08:27] <MTecknology> persia: what is the right thing to do with an abandoned bug? say 6 months of no activity about not being able to connect to wireless or something where an update has most likely been released and the issue has a near 0% chance of still being a problem?
[08:28] <techno_freak> MTecknology, what is its current status?
[08:29] <MTecknology> Incomplete, marked for expiration for over 150 days
[08:30] <persia> MTecknology, It depends.  If the bug is against a still supported release, it may be valid.  Asking for retest with Hardy or Intrepid may be sensible.
[08:31] <MTecknology> what if it's not valid anymore?
[08:31] <techno_freak> MTecknology, it is better to ask the reporter(s) to check if the issue still exists in intrepid
[08:31] <MTecknology> aight
[08:32] <MTecknology> What if they don't respond to that after a while?
[08:34] <MTecknology> say, if it expires again?
[08:34] <techno_freak> MTecknology, the bug is incomplete, so if they dont reply it expires
[08:34] <persia> MTecknology, If the reporter won't help troubleshoot the bug, and you can't reproduce either in the previous environment, or the current environment, and it's been a couple months, you can set it to invalid.
[08:35] <MTecknology> persia: oh - invalid bugs make me sad :( I like to assume the problem's been fixed and everybody's happy
[08:36] <MTecknology> does anything happen to invalid bugs after x days?
[08:38] <persia> No.  They just sit there.  I also don't like invalid bugs, but when there's not enough information, and no prospect of getting enough information, it's hard to defend keeping it around.
[08:39] <MTecknology> I like the idea of saying that new versions were released so i'm marking it to fix released and they can set it back to new if it's still an issue. Then changing it back to new at least has it readdressed - afaik
[08:39] <MTecknology> just my thought
[08:40] <maco> MTecknology: well the stock response for invalidating seemingly-abandoned bugs says that they should reopen it if it's still an issue
[08:42] <MTecknology> maco: so is doing what I said ok?
[08:44] <maco> MTecknology: as a general rule, dont mark bugs "fix released" unless you can point to the version that had the fix
[08:45] <maco> otherwise you end up with other triagers going "what the...where did THAT come from????"
[08:45] <MTecknology> oh
[08:45] <MTecknology> :(
[08:45] <MTecknology> so I just need to do invalid and wait for somebody that knows more to clean it up?
[08:46] <maco> fix released should be accompanied by a comment saying something to the effect "fixed in version _______"
[08:46] <MTecknology> otherwise do invalid and wait for somebody that knows the version to do it?
[08:46] <maco> good to ask the reporter if it's still a problem and wait a few weeks before marking invalid if they dont reply or if they say it magically disappeared
[08:47] <maco> i think "no longer reproducible" is considered "invalid"
[08:47] <MTecknology> aight
[08:47] <maco> fix released really is for bugs where we know what happened to fix it
[08:47] <MTecknology> ok
[08:48] <maco> Invalid:
[08:48] <maco> * This status should be used when the bug report does not contain adequate information to determine whether or not it is a bug even if it is resolved for the reporter
[08:48] <maco> from the wiki
[08:48] <maco> so magically works now and no idea what was wrong or what fixed it....invalid
[08:49] <persia> MTecknology, Please don't set anything "Fix Released" unless it's confirmed that one can replicate in an earlier environment, and can no longer replicate in a later environment.
[08:50] <MTecknology> so when looking at what's fixed etc, the invalid and fix released are pretty much considered the same?
[08:50] <persia> maco, I disagree : I'm happy to set "Fix Released" for "Magically works now".  I only use "Invalid" for "We don't have enough information to consider this a bug report".
[08:50] <persia> MTecknology, No.  Something going from Fix Released to New is a regression, and becomes a concern.  Something going from Invalid to New only means we don't understand it yet.
[08:51] <persia> maco, To expand on that: note that I only set Fix Released for magically works now when I can replicate it in an earlier release, but not in the current release.
[08:53] <MTecknology> What I meant is, when a person looks at how many bugs still exist, are invalid and fix released considered the same?
[08:53] <maco> persia: ok yeah, but then you can say "known working in this version" which is different than the reporter saying "magically works now" without anyone knowing what happened or why
[08:53] <maco> MTecknology: they're considered not to exist, i think
[08:53] <persia> maco, Oh, certainly :)
[08:54] <persia> MTecknology, Interesting bugs are New, Incomplete, Confirmed, and Triaged.
[08:54] <persia> In some rare cases Fix Committed bugs may be interesting, especially the desktop team bugs, but I think that's a misuse of the status value.
[08:55] <maco> invalid are considered not-a-bug, won't-fix is kind of "yeah, it could be considered a bug depending on your workflow, but this is a design decision" and "fix released" is "it was a bug, but it works now, so we don't have to think about it anymore"
[08:55] <MTecknology> ok :)
[08:55] <maco> "design decision" is the only reason i can think of for "won't fix"
[08:55] <MTecknology> makes perfectly clear sense now :)
[08:56] <MTecknology> thanks for helping me out :)
[08:56] <maco> is there any other?
[08:56] <maco> persia: ?
[08:56] <MTecknology> nap time - 3am and class soon
[08:56] <persia> macd__, Certainly.  Lots.
[08:56] <macd__> boo tab complete!
[08:57] <MTecknology> I can think of a couple reasons, where i workd (microsoft type company) won't fix also meant "we don't care"
[08:57] <persia> Say someone wants something where there's a licensing issue, or something where upstream protests strongly, or something where Ubuntu just doesn't have resources to do it.
[08:57] <persia> (an example of the latter might be : Please include a local cache of the entire internet in firefox)
[08:57] <maco> .... O_o
[08:57]  * macd__ mutters like libgems ...
[08:58] <maco> macd__: sorry, s/he meant to ping me
[08:58] <persia> MTecknology, "We don't care" is best expressed as "Confirmed" for > 1 year.
[08:58] <persia> If anyone really wanted to fix it, they'd submit a patch.
[08:58] <maco> persia: or triaged > 1 yaar
[08:58] <macd__> maco, I know, I just felt the urge to drop my 2 cents too
[08:58] <maco> macd__: happens a lot, i know
[08:58] <persia> maco, Sure.  I don't meaningfully distinguish Confirmed from Triaged for most bugs.
[08:58] <MTecknology> or include ubuntu-restricted-extras in standard install ??
[08:59] <maco> persia: given the tons of triaged-with-patch-but-not-committed bugs....
[08:59] <maco> MTecknology: yeah...
[08:59] <macd__> maco I just realized you are macogw ;) that was the other one that got me all the time
[08:59] <maco> persia: i saw a bug today and wanted to mark it won't fix
[08:59] <maco> macd__: yes, that's me
[08:59] <persia> maco, Which bug?
[09:00] <maco> persia: crimsun said leave it as "new" ...they didnt like upstream gimp's design decision to have the empty window
[09:00] <persia> Oh, yeah, it's not worth having an argument about that.
[09:00] <maco> bug 280384
[09:00] <persia> "Won't Fix" is only useful when you're 100% certain that it shouldn't be done, and you're willing to argue the case.
[09:00] <MTecknology> Ubuntu "6206  incomplete bugs can expire" I wanna mark every one over 90 days old as invalid if there hasn't been anything about I'll try this in intrepid or somthing...
[09:01] <maco> MTecknology: you could try to reproduce them in intrepid first
[09:01] <maco> MTecknology: but i did spend a few days combing through old bugs one day about 2 months ago
[09:01] <persia> MTecknology, Please give each of them another triage swing before marking invalid.  Some may have open questions unanswered, and can be invalidated, but others may just not have gotten a look after the reported answered a question.
[09:01] <MTecknology> I can't wait to install it. I keep doing things from a like cd so I haven't gone to it yet
[09:02] <maco> MTecknology: ive got an intrepid vm open
[09:02] <maco> im doing my bug work in there now.
[09:02] <maco> still have irssi in the hardy host though
[09:02] <MTecknology> what does triage mean?
[09:02] <maco> MTecknology: ever watch ER?
[09:02] <persia> MTecknology, It's close enough that if you're not using it for production purposes, and you've a willingness to chase bugs, it's probably OK to upgrade.
[09:02] <MTecknology> I used to think that meant "we're working on it"
[09:02] <persia> !triage
[09:02] <persia> Bother.
[09:02] <maco> MTecknology: it means figure out what the heck's wrong with it
[09:03] <maco> get all the information and make a diagnosis
[09:03] <elmargol> Any hints how I can debug this bug #278029
[09:03] <persia> Well, rather to get a rough idea, and sort things that need immediate attention, things that can wait a bit, and things that don't matter so much or can be fixed trivially.
[09:03] <maco> that's what nurses do. then they get the doctors to actually fix it. the devs are the doctors in this case
[09:03] <MTecknology> meaning "ok let's try to figure this bad boy out" ?
[09:04] <MTecknology> sounds good - always was a foreign word until now
[09:04] <maco> the "Triaged" status means there's enough there to fix it (or even a patch there that is known to work) and now just need to get someone with upload rights to take the patch or a developer to make a patch from all the gathered info
[09:05] <MTecknology> persia: My servers will stay lts, but my laptop will upgrade - maybe my home desktop/server too
[09:05] <maco> unfortunately, there's this silly rule that we need a debdiff of all the patches, which means all of us that can work C but go O_O when told to try packaging have our patches ignored
[09:06] <MTecknology> wow - fun
[09:06] <MTecknology> screw me trying to do that :P
[09:06] <maco> kernel accepts git changesets though :D no silly debdiff requirement
[09:06] <persia> maco, There's no such rule, it's just that the sponsors won't sponsor stuff that's not debdiffs.
[09:06] <persia> Arbitrary packagers might.
[09:07] <maco> persia: ok its not a set-in-stone rule, but it's a hoop that comes up all the time that a lot of people can't jump through
[09:07] <persia> For the first 6 months or so I worked on Ubuntu, I'd prepare a patch, report the patch here, and ask someone to make a debdiff, and then the debdiff would be presented to the MOTU for upload.
[09:07] <maco> persia: not uncommon to see patches sitting there with someone going "make a debdiff first"
[09:08] <persia> Yeah.  I'm guilty of that, as sometimes I triage the sponsorship queue, and kick out 30% of the bugs that need someone to look at them.
[09:08] <MTecknology> what's motu?
[09:08] <maco> MTecknology: masters of the universe
[09:08] <MTecknology> heh?
[09:08] <MTecknology> oh
[09:08] <persia> Essentially, as I see it, the difference between a patch and a debdiff is that someone is signing off as responsible on the debdiff.
[09:08] <MTecknology> interesting
[09:08] <maco> too much specialized knowledge required
[09:09] <maco> not every programmer knows how to do packaging voodoo
[09:09] <persia> Certainly.
[09:09] <maco> (yes, voodoo...i just cross my fingers and try 3-5 times every time i want to make a package)
[09:09] <persia> On the other hand, I'd be happy to walk anyone through the process of turning a patch into a debdiff ; takes about 15 minutes.
[09:10] <seb128> one issue is usually that if you don't know how to do a debdiff that's probably that you probably didn't try to build and test a package using the change
[09:10] <seb128> because if you build a package to test it the debdiff is just on command to run
[09:12] <maco> seb128: but if it works when you compile the sources the normal way, it would also work when compiled as a package, wouldn't it?
[09:12] <persia> maco, Not necessarily : there may be hidden trickery in debian/rules that defeats you.
[09:13] <MTecknology> nap time - this time i mean it
[09:13] <MTecknology> ttyal - and thanks - very informative
[09:14] <maco> persia: is that the file that lists the build dependencies?
[09:14] <maco> or is that debian/control?
[09:14] <seb128> no, that's the file which has the build options
[09:14] <maco> really debian/changelog is the only one i've figured out
[09:14] <persia> maco, That's debian/control debian/rules is the file that contains the build instructions.
[09:14] <persia> maco, Do you have time now, I'd be happy to walk you through the critical files, and the process of applying a patch.
[09:15] <maco> persia: i dont have any patches to turn into debdiffs right now. and seeing as its after 4 i should probably be in my bed
[09:15] <persia> maco, OK.  Catch me anytime if you want a walkthrough.
[09:15] <maco> kk
[09:16] <persia> (and that goes for anyone else that wants one too : if there are a lot of requests, I'll schedule something in #ubuntu-classroom)
[09:20] <maco> i hate the preferences menu
[09:20] <maco> *too* *tall*
[09:21] <persia> maco, Now try it with 480 vertical pixels :)
[09:24] <maco> persia: the VM's got 1024x768 and it's the full height of the screen. not cool.
[09:24] <maco> hm :-/ why does Intrepid have two Screensaver options in the Preferences menu?
[09:24] <persia> maco, That's worth a bug.  GNOME is supposed to fit in 800x600.
[09:25] <seb128> don't open a bug
[09:25] <maco> persia: well if it was 800x600 it'd add scrolly things to the top and bottom of the menu
[09:25] <seb128> the menu has arrows to scroll
[09:25] <maco> seb128: its just ugly as sin
[09:25] <seb128> and the menus being overcrowed are a known issue
[09:25] <maco> yeah
[09:25] <seb128> we have the discussion at all uds since dapper
[09:25] <maco> haha
[09:25] <seb128> but there is just no good solution
[09:26] <maco> im still voting keyboard+keyboard_shortcuts becoming 1 menu item
[09:26] <seb128> we masked some items and moved some but that's just a workaround
[09:26] <seb128> right, that requires upstream work though
[09:26] <maco> also wondering why we have Palm Pilot stuff in there by default....who even uses those nowadays?
[09:27] <maco> they were really popular around 2000 and then died off
[09:27] <seb128> which means still lot of users have those
[09:27] <maco> and does it really *need* to be part of the default stuff?
[09:27] <seb128> that's worth a discussion next cycle
[09:27] <persia> seb128, gnome-menus 2.24.0-0ubuntu1 seemed to have some additional hierarchical stuff for overflowing menus (like Games with sgt-puzzles installed), which went away in 2.24.0-0ubuntu2.  Might that sort of categorisation help?
[09:27] <maco> we dont have blackberry stuff by default...and those are at least as popular but more likely twice as popular as palm pilots
[09:28] <maco> or maybe blackberries just seem really popular because i'm in washington, dc and the government practically revolves around having blackberries
[09:28] <seb128> persia: we decided that categories are harder to use than a long linear menu, because you often don't know where to look and have to go to several categories to find what you want to use
[09:29] <seb128> persia: where on a linear menu you can just type a letter or quickly look through the list
[09:29] <maco> persia: the freedesktop.org spec says not to go more than 2 levels of nesting deep
[09:29] <persia> seb128, Makes sense.  Mind you, sgt-puzzles kinda overflows *anyones* Games menu.
[09:29] <maco> seb128: wait you can type a letter to move through?
[09:29] <seb128> dunno what sgt-puzzles is ;-)
[09:29] <seb128> maco: yes
[09:29] <persia> maco, I think it's location : there's almost no blackberries here.
[09:29] <maco> seb128: um, is it supposed to launch the first thing that starts with that letter, or is it supposed to scroll to there and highlight it?
[09:30] <maco> i had to resist the urge to type crackberry every time
[09:30] <seb128> not sure what it's supposed to do but if there is only one option it launches it
[09:30] <seb128> otherwise it cycles between options
[09:30] <persia> That's confusing.  Depending on the menu, it may or may not launch.
[09:31] <maco> my roommate (student from indonesia) has one, my stepmom (salesperson from pennsylvania) has one
[09:31] <seb128> right
[09:31] <persia> Mind you, for people with less stuff installed than I, it's probably faster.
[09:31] <seb128> I think it should just select
[09:31] <persia> I agree.  Is that hard to change?
[09:31] <maco> it launched for me and i was confused because the menu disappeared
[09:31] <maco> also confused by gnome color chooser being implemented as a transient window
[09:31] <maco> that thing should've tiled
[09:32] <maco> it seems like anyone with a smartphone i know has either an iphone or a crackberry
[09:32] <seb128> persia: that seems to be a GTK thing, ie applications menus behave the same way, so probably not trivial to change for gnome-panel
[09:32] <maco> *oh* thats why gimp does that
[09:33] <maco> always confused me that itd select something inside the open menu if you hit the underlined letter, but not if you hit Alt+underlined_letter...usually the underlined letters mean Alt but apparently not in gtk O_o
[09:34] <persia> Well, also in GTK+, just not in the menus.
[09:34] <seb128> alt-underlined_letter works for accelerator
[09:34] <seb128> menus are a special case, the widget already has the focus so they decided you can just type which is easier than having to use a modifier there
[09:35] <maco> hm, well i noticed that with gtk-on-not-linux so lemme try it here
[09:35] <persia> seb128, Not for an open window.  Open gedit.  Alt+F opens the File menu, but Alt+N won't start a new document : you have to press N without Alt.
[09:35] <persia> s/window/menu/
[09:36] <maco> seb128: if i open gimp and i hit alt+i to open the Image menu then alt+z for zealous crop nothing happens. i have to hit just plain Z
[09:36] <seb128> right, that's what I said, no modifier in menus
[09:36] <maco> by nothing happens i mean the menu stays open
[09:36] <maco> that's confusing. you should be able to either use it or not use it
[09:37] <persia> I think both 'Z' and 'Alt+Z' ought to work there.
[09:37] <maco> because the underline usually signifies that alt is required. that alt isn't required isn't a problem. that alt causes breakage is.
[09:37] <maco> or rather, that alt doesnt cause the expected results
[09:37] <seb128> you have a point, would need to look upstream though, maybe they have a good reason for not doing it though
[09:37] <seb128> ie, maybe they need to keep alt available for some other purpose
[09:38] <seb128> or maybe that's a bug
[09:38] <maco> ill bug them about it tomorrow
[09:38] <maco> night guys
[09:38] <seb128> bye
[09:40] <seb128> persia: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133026 seems to be about that
[09:41] <persia> seb128, Thanks for the pointer.
[09:42] <ziroday> Is there a special procedure/tag for non-english bug reports? Or do just request they speak in english?
[09:43] <persia> ziroday, You might want to subscribe the relevant localisation team.  For a number of common languages, there is triage performed, and translation done on non-English bugs.  Asking for English can also help.
[09:44] <persia> For some bugs, where there is sufficient additional information (e.g. from apport), it's not even required to translate to triage.
[09:44] <seb128> I would recommend closing those and asking to open a bug using an english description
[09:44] <ziroday> [12:43] <persia> ziroday, You might want to subscribe the relevant localisation team.  For a number of common languages, there is triage performed, and translation done on non-English bugs.  Asking for English can also help.
[09:44] <ziroday> woops
[09:45] <seb128> persia: trying to translate those just encourage users to go in a way we don't want to encourage
[09:45] <ziroday> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/280367
[09:45] <ziroday> thats the bug, and you can't tell what on earth they are getting at unless you speak french
[09:45] <seb128> persia: we already don't cope with bugs report, those are technical description and should be understable by everybody so be in english
[09:45] <persia> seb128, Depends on how active the coordination team is.  See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-jp-improvement for an example of what is being done for Japanese.
[09:46] <persia> seb128, There are a couple Japanese developers who then feed patches (in English) into the main bug tracker.
[09:46] <ziroday> also, if someone has a feature request for an upstream bug report, would it be normal for you to open the upstream report or request the reporter to do so?
[09:46] <persia> I think the most important thing is to get the reporters connected to the people who provide support for that language (if they exist), rather than expecting everyone to speak English.
[09:46] <seb128> persia: it creates lot of noise and encourage people to open non english bugs, I think that's wrong, users should be sent to the answer tracker or equivalent and such cases and the report should be moved to the bug tracker when it has a clear english description
[09:47] <persia> OK.  I can see the argument for using "Convert to question" for those.  Just closing them seems rude.
[09:47] <seb128> changing to a question seems adequate indeed
[09:48]  * ziroday changes to question
[09:49] <ziroday> and about the upstream feature request?
[09:49] <persia> ziroday, Mark Wishlist, Link to an upstream bug.
[09:50] <ziroday> persia: does the reporter or the triager file the upstream bug?
[09:50] <persia> ziroday, The triager usually.
[09:50] <ziroday> alright, thanks
[09:50] <ziroday> persia: seb128 thanks a load
[11:26] <asac> happy hugday! ;)
[11:26]  * asac hugs all
[11:26]  * Hobbsee hugs asac, and marks all the firefox bugs as wontfix.
[11:31] <asac> ;)
[11:32] <asac> Hobbsee: i guess a new status "wont fix - do it yourself" might work :-P
[11:32] <Hobbsee> asac: haha.  now *there's* an idea :)
[11:42] <persia> Isn't that what "Triaged" means after a few months?
[11:44] <asac> good point ;)
[11:44] <wgrant> Heh.
[11:44] <asac> persia: "Triaged (just do it!)"
[11:44]  * wgrant wonders why firefox hasn't been removed yet... it is rather broken and we're close to release...
[11:45] <persia> wgrant, Is there a removal bug already?
[11:46] <wgrant> persia: I've been presuming that mozillateam would do it, given the specialness.
[11:46] <Hobbsee> they said they were going to, but apparently never have
[11:47] <persia> asac, ?
[11:59] <Hobbsee> @now san fransisco
[11:59] <Hobbsee> @now san francisco
[11:59] <Hobbsee> bah.
[11:59] <asac> wgrant: i thought there was a removal bug :/
[12:00] <asac> jazzva did this ... unfortunately he is on holiday till next week i think
[12:01] <wgrant> AH, bug #277401
[12:06] <asac> hmm we had a more complete one
[12:06] <asac> where the rdepends that could not be migrated and would have to be removed were listed too
[12:06] <asac> too bad ;)
[12:30] <lfaraone> Hey, is https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phpbb2/+bug/218492 a "high" bug if it can break all upgrades to any newer version if the package is installed?
[12:30] <lfaraone> (I just set it to medium)
[12:31] <lfaraone> james_w: see above
[14:26] <ogra> popey, around ?
[14:26] <popey> ogra: yup
[14:26] <ogra> popey, what wlan driver does the eee use ?
[14:27] <popey> atheros
[14:27] <ogra> could it be that we have it in l-r-m ?
[14:27] <popey> which release of ubuntu?
[14:27]  * ogra needs to know if the ubuntu-mobile image works on it, it ships l-r-m 2.6.27
[14:27] <popey> 8.04 doesn't have it, I'm certain of that
[14:27] <ogra> (which contains madwifi)
[14:28] <popey> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EeePC/Fixes#Wireless
[14:28] <ogra> ah, thanks
[14:28] <popey> np
[14:29] <BugMaN> ogra: in intrepid works out-of-the-box
[14:29] <ogra> BugMaN, cool, thanks !
[14:38] <james_w> BugMaN: do you not have to blacklist ath_hal?
[14:39] <BugMaN> james_w: nope
[14:39] <BugMaN> james_w: its work without any mod
[14:39] <james_w> some users do apparently
[14:39] <james_w> BugMaN: was yours a fresh install of Intrepid?
[14:39] <BugMaN> james_w: nope
[14:40] <BugMaN> james_w: i'm upgrade from alpha to beta
[14:40] <james_w> hmm
[14:40] <james_w> ah, so still Intrepid?
[14:40] <BugMaN> james_w: and after that wi-fi works
[14:40] <BugMaN> james_w: yes
[14:40] <james_w> I mean you haven't had hardy on that box?
[14:40] <BugMaN> james_w: yeah only intrepid
[14:41] <james_w> that might be it then: while Intrepid has .27 and so ath5k, which works nicely, those who upgrade have to blacklist ath_hal.
[14:41] <james_w> ogra: ^
[14:41] <ogra> james_w, ath5k only works on some devices
[14:42] <ogra> it doesnt work on i.e. the samsung Q1 which the mobile team uses as reference device for development
[14:42] <james_w> ah, ok
[14:42] <james_w> works nicely on the eee
[14:42] <ogra> the same chipset seems to work on other HW combos though
[14:42] <ogra> must be the BIOS or combination of HW that makes it break
[14:43] <ogra> we're currently working on a quirk for the driver to not use ath5k on the Q1
[14:44] <ogra> but apparently the question came up if the ubuntu-mobile image works on the eee, and all i know is that there are issues with te wlan ... if that works, -mobile should work fine
[14:44] <ogra> (people seem to love the new mobile UI on eee, so it would be bad if it wouldnt work by release)
[14:47] <persia> ogra, Despite your insistence on it's touchiness, it looks *great* on the Eee form-factor.
[14:47] <james_w> yeah, I'm using it, it works nicely
[14:47] <ogra> james_w, mobile ?
[14:47] <james_w> the biggest things are the gnome-session thing, and the lack of gnome-app-install in the launcher I think
[14:48] <jernst> Hello, can someone else than me confirm this new firefox bug ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/280623
[14:48] <james_w> ogra: well, not from an image, but I think so, I assembled all the bits
[14:48] <james_w> ogra: I'm happy to test images for you if you like
[14:48] <ogra> james_w, no, mobile is: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/mobile/
[14:48] <ogra> it doesnt use the netbook launcher
[14:49] <ogra> which remonds me i need to update the netbook-launcher package to fix the font issues
[14:49] <james_w> ah, what am I using then?
[14:49] <ogra> no idea, something custom :)
[14:49] <ogra> james_w, but it would be nice to know if the image works for you, its a live usb image so no need to install
[14:50] <james_w> ogra: cool, I'll buy a USB stick and give it a go
[14:50] <ogra> that'D be cool ....
[14:50] <ogra> remond me to pay you a bunch of beers in dec. :)
[14:51] <james_w> ah yeah, I'm using UNR I think
[14:51] <bddebian> Boo
[14:51] <nhandler> Ahh!!!
[14:52] <bddebian> :)
[15:41] <etienne> hi
[15:42] <etienne> is there any bug on gconfd in intrepid which eat all cpu time ?
[15:42] <etienne> to know if i have to report it :)
[15:42] <etienne> (or to find the solution :) )
[15:44] <seb128> no there is no bug about that and it's not likely a gconf issue, maybe you have client which keeps reading or writting there?
[15:46] <etienne> seb128: how can i find it ?
[15:46] <seb128> etienne: what do you to get the issue?
[15:46] <etienne> nothing :)
[15:46] <etienne> just satring gnome
[15:46] <etienne> starting
[15:46] <seb128> did you try user an another user account?
[15:46] <seb128> what ubuntu version?
[15:47] <etienne> interepid
[15:47] <etienne> tu me prends pour quoi ? :)
[15:47] <etienne> i will truy another account
[15:47] <etienne> i have deleted .gconf* and .gnome*
[16:09] <etienne> seb128: ok with another user no problem...
[16:10] <etienne> do you how can i know how can i find the guilty client ?
[16:14] <bcurtiswx> hey, what package controls the touchpad on ubuntu?
[16:15] <seb128> etienne: try moving configs, .gconf, .gnome, etc until finding what is creating the issue
[16:15] <etienne> i have deleted all theses rep
[16:16] <persia> bcurtiswx, I'd think xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
[16:16] <seb128> and you still get the issue?
[16:17] <seb128> any application, theme you are using, etc which is not the standard one?
[16:17] <bcurtiswx> persia, ty
[16:17] <seb128> try moving other directories and configurations
[16:22] <bcurtiswx> Bug Triage Team: bug #278995 should have enough information for triage.
[16:41] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, just out of curiosity, was System/Preferences/Touchpad verified?
[16:42] <bcurtiswx> in the reporters description they say that "Horizontal and vertical scroll is enabled in touchpad settings."
[16:42] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, you are correct, I missed it ;-(
[16:42] <bcurtiswx> hggdh, no problem we are only human
[16:42] <hggdh> bcurtiswx, done
[16:42] <bcurtiswx> hggdh, tyvm
[16:45] <kees> jdstrand: SUP changelog format from #u-hardened> I'm for it.  :)
[16:46] <kees> gah, wrong channel
[16:51] <bdmurray> wouldn't an xorg.conf, and maybe Xorg.0.log, be good for bug 278995?
[16:55] <bdmurray> dholbach_: hey there
[16:59] <hggdh> bdmurray, indeed. bcurtiswx could you please ask the reporter for the /var/log/Xorg.o.log?
[17:00] <bdmurray> the config file too ;)
[17:00] <hggdh> although I can also repeat it
[17:01] <hggdh> so I will add it in
[17:01] <bdmurray> great!
[17:03] <hggdh> done
[17:08] <bcurtiswx> hggdh, bdmurray, thx sorry i am making myself lunch
[17:08] <tseliot> hggdh: I have just replied and attached a xorg.conf that I would like you to try
[17:16] <bdmurray> mvo: yesterday we were talking about update-manager hanging during the "Cleaning up" stage.  Did you get a chance to look at that at all?
[17:17] <hggdh> tseliot, will check it
[17:21] <hggdh> tseliot, losing SHMConfig would disable control of the touchpad, would it not?
[17:21] <tseliot> hggdh: no, you shouldn't lose anything
[17:21] <tseliot> Xorg will autodetect the touchpad
[17:21] <hggdh> k. will be back in a few
[17:24] <hggdh> tseliot, yes, now I can scroll horizontal and vertical. Question: how do I disable the touchpad now?
[17:24] <tseliot> hggdh: do you use GNOME?
[17:26] <tseliot> hggdh: if so, you can use the System/Preferences/Mouse menu
[17:27] <bcurtiswx> on machines without a touchpad, will the touchpad tab show up in that menu?
[17:27] <tseliot> no, it won't
[17:28] <bcurtiswx> ty
[17:28] <hggdh> tseliot, yes, I use gnome, but System/Preferences/Mouse will control the mouse. I still will type and hit the touchpad...
[17:29] <tseliot> isn't there an entry for the touchpad there?
[17:29] <hggdh> yes, disabled because we took out SHMConfig
[17:30] <hggdh> I will try with SHMConfig enabled again, and see if I maintain hor/vert scroll
[17:32] <tseliot> maybe try adding this to your xorg.conf: http://pastebin.com/d6c33e22e
[17:33] <tseliot> hggdh: it should be enough ^^
[17:35] <hggdh> tseliot, yes, this is what I was adding. Be back in a few
[17:36] <hggdh> tseliot, adding the syanptics driver loses vert/hor scrolling
[17:37] <hggdh> darn, I had it disabled :-( hold on
[17:37] <hggdh> no, even enabling the touchpad does not provide scrolling
[17:38] <hggdh> so... interaction between the synaptics driver and default xorg?
[17:38] <bdmurray> mvo: bug 280236 might be the same as what we were talking about
[17:39] <tseliot> hggdh: ah, right, try removing the line with the "synaptics" driver.  The log shows that you have an "AlpsPS/2 ALPS GlidePoint" touchpad.
[17:39] <tseliot> and restart the xserver
[17:39] <hggdh> doing it
[17:44] <mvo> bdmurray: it seems to be relatively common now, I saw some people with similar problems i n#ubuntu+1
[17:45] <bdmurray> mvo: Do you need any further information?
[17:45] <mvo> bdmurray: I milestoned it
[17:48] <hggdh> tseliot, we need a driver for the touchpad. Do you have any idea what is the name for the Alps Glidepint driver?
[17:48] <hggdh> and this is probably the issue with the reporters: wrong touchpad driver
[17:50] <tseliot> hggdh: now that I think about it, synaptics should work
[17:52] <hggdh> tseliot, so we are missing something... time to google around
[17:53] <tseliot> hggdh: wgrant worked on the touchpad tab in the mouse menu, you might want to ask him about this
[17:53] <tseliot> hggdh: ah, and does setting Option      "Protocol" "alps" work?
[17:54] <tseliot> i.e. using "alps" instead of "evdev-dev"
[17:54] <hggdh> tseliot, will try the protocol option
[17:59] <bcurtiswx_> ok, so i just stuck a DVD in my DVD drive.. and it told me to load totem movie player... and it froze my entire system
[18:00] <bcurtiswx> had to hard reboot :(
[18:03] <maco> crimsun: linux-backports-modules did not fix my kernel panics. it actually made one happen within 5 minutes of booting and made it so that wireless can't connect, even to open networks
[18:05] <hggdh> tseliot, back to beginning. I will post the last Xorg.0.conf, but it seems now the defined InputDevice is disregarded, and X uses Hal to get the GlidePoint
[18:06]  * tseliot scratches head
[18:07] <bcurtiswx> so yeah, i think i've got a decent sized bug here
[18:07] <bcurtiswx> i load a dvd movie into my dvd drive
[18:07] <bcurtiswx> it tried to run in totem, but totem turns darker and i close it this time to make sure it doesn't freeze my system
[18:08] <bcurtiswx> then a minute later
[18:08] <bcurtiswx> my system just stops working
[18:08] <bcurtiswx> once again, a hard reboot the only option i've got
[18:08] <tseliot> bcurtiswx: what driver do you use? And are you using totem-gstreamer or totem-xine?
[18:09] <bcurtiswx> my video is nvidia 177.80, and its Gstreamer
[18:13] <bcurtiswx> tseliot: ^^
[18:13] <tseliot> ok, it might be a problem with gstreamer then
[18:13] <bcurtiswx> ok
[18:14] <maco> why do we ship gstreamer?
[18:14] <maco> xine is *so* much better when it comes to dvds
[18:14] <maco> gstreamer can't even do menus
[18:15] <bcurtiswx> im going through apport right now and creating a bug report
[18:15] <maco> ive never used apport
[18:16] <bcurtiswx> it collects information from the system for devs
[18:18] <tseliot> maco: because otherwise you would have to use totem-xine and libdvdcss the latter of which patent issues (actually this might not be very accurate) in some countries
[18:18] <tseliot> s/patent/has patent/
[18:18] <maco> tseliot: i know libdvdcss has those issues, but you need it to use dvds with gstreamer too anyway, so what's it matter?
[18:19] <maco> bcurtiswx: i know what it is. it's that pain in the butt thing that pops up every time something crashes and makes you enter a password before you can dismiss it that i disabled for being an annoying pain in the butt
[18:20] <bcurtiswx> maco, haha yes.  its got some useful parts though
[18:20] <tseliot> maco: I *guess* it's legal to do so with gstreamer
[18:22] <tseliot> I might be wrong though
[18:22] <maco> tseliot: gstreamer cant play encrypted dvds without libdvdcss either though, can it?
[18:23] <bcurtiswx> #280860
[18:23] <bcurtiswx> thats mine
[18:23] <maco> bcurtiswx: gotta say "bug" before it to get the bot to respond
[18:23]  * bcurtiswx punches bot
[18:23] <bcurtiswx> bug #280860
[18:24] <tseliot> maco: I guess you're right. It's all explained here BTW: http://live.gnome.org/DvdPlaybackWithTotem
[18:26] <maco> tseliot: i just dont get why they bother with gstreamer when xine does everything gstreamer does, but in some cases better
[18:27] <tseliot> maco: I have no idea, I have always used xine ;)
[18:28] <tseliot> hggdh: can you try setting Protocol to "auto-dev"
[18:28] <tseliot> ?
[18:29] <tseliot> that should work according to the man page
[18:31] <hggdh> tseliot, will do
[18:31] <hggdh> back in a few
[18:33] <bcurtiswx> maco, DVD works fine in xine.. thx
[18:34] <bcurtiswx> or not...
[18:36] <tseliot> bcurtiswx: have a look at this page: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs
[18:38] <bcurtiswx> yup, it still broke my computer
[18:38] <bcurtiswx> with xine
[18:39] <maco> maybe your dvd drive's driver is screwed up...if that's possible
[18:39] <bcurtiswx> im installing VLC
[18:39] <bcurtiswx> seeing if it does the same thing
[18:42] <jl_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-samba/+bug/280872
[18:42] <jl_> plz check
[18:42] <jl_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-samba/+bug/280872
[18:43] <_Zeus_> jl_: what about it?
[18:43] <jl_> check it :)
[18:44] <jl_> kinda shitty bug
[18:44] <_Zeus_> oh, now i see
[18:44] <_Zeus_> "something missing"
[18:44] <_Zeus_> whutthe
[18:44] <bcurtiswx> hmm
[18:45] <bcurtiswx> maybe it IS my dvd drive
[18:45] <bcurtiswx> but how?
[18:46] <jl_> _Zeus_: refresh :)
[18:46] <_Zeus_> i did
[18:46] <_Zeus_> duped
[18:46] <hggdh> tseliot, I changed it do "auto-dev" -- same behaviour. I then changed the driver to "alps". It now loads OK, and I have again control of hor/ver scroll
[18:46] <hggdh> tseliot, but -- of course -- now I cannot disable the touchpad ;-)
[18:47] <bcurtiswx> can others who have intrepid and a desktop dvd drive please test playing a movie
[18:47] <bcurtiswx> bbl
[18:48] <jl_> can't check the duplicate bug ?
[18:49] <_Zeus_> no, i can;t
[18:49] <_Zeus_> private?
[18:50] <jl_> you marked is as dupe ?
[18:50] <jl_> but can't check the 237323 bug
[18:50] <hggdh> tseliot, I am guessing the issue now is with the gsynaptics programme
[18:57] <KennethVenke1> hello,
[18:57] <KennethVenke1> i'm trying to get started with triaging. I have some time at the moment, so i thought, why not start with the firefox hug day. (since firefox is part of my most frequently used software ;) )
[18:57] <KennethVenke1> So i was looking at bug #280101 to which i commented. What steps should i do to complete this triage.
[18:57] <KennethVenke1> (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/280101)
[18:59] <tseliot> hggdh: I ran out of ideas.
[19:00] <hggdh> tseliot, two chances, I think: (1) gsynaptics need to be looked at; (2) some other option should be provided in the InputDevice section
[19:02] <jl_> how can I check the added samba users now ? as system-config-samba is broken ?
[19:04] <bdmurray> KennethVenke1: One good thing to know is whether you are using Hardy or Intrepid
[19:06] <KennethVenke1> hardy
[19:10] <KennethVenke1> bdmurray: i'm using hardy, should i be using intrepid?
[19:10] <bdmurray> KennethVenke1: Not necessarily.  Since you've "recreated" the bug you can set the status to Confirmed
[19:28] <_Zeus_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/280897
[19:29] <_Zeus_> can someone give me an opinion on that?  he's complaining that fsck couldn't fix it all?
[19:30] <chrisccoulson> if fsck moved all his files to lost+found, then thats because his fsck was borked
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> that's not a fsck problem. it recovered what ic ould
[19:31] <_Zeus_> no, he didn't say that it moved all his files there
[19:31] <_Zeus_> he says that there a bunch of files with weird names
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> **recovered what it could even
[19:31] <_Zeus_> which is, i think, all the crap it couldn't fix?
[19:31] <chrisccoulson> "fsck now moved the whole volume to lost+found - and I wonder how the hell does those filenames there suppose to help me restore the mess"
[19:32] <_Zeus_> which means that it couldn't fix anything?
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> thats right
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> i don't think thats a bug in the software at all
[19:32] <_Zeus_> agreed
[19:32] <_Zeus_> do you want to tell him that please?  i g2g
[19:32] <chrisccoulson> no problem
[19:32] <_Zeus_> ty
[19:33] <_Zeus_> nm, back
[19:34] <_Zeus_> i'll do it
[19:35] <chrisccoulson> it's ok - i've just done it;)
[19:37] <_Zeus_> ok, i just put mine anyway :P didn't see that
[19:37] <_Zeus_> they're different, though, so that's ok
[19:46] <jl_> _Zeus_: is there a way to check ubuntu users now, as system-config-samba doesn't work
[19:53] <bdmurray> jl_: doesn't work on what release?
[19:54] <jl_> intrepid
[19:54] <jl_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-samba/+bug/280872
[19:57] <crimsun> maco: did you crossreference the actual versions of the driver in both?
[19:58] <crimsun> maco: (i.e., l-b-m/hardy-proposed and l/intrepid)
[20:00] <chrisccoulson> jl_ - I can't recreate your problem on system-config-samba. that crash would suggest a missing python-libuser, but s-c-s depends on this correctly
[20:00] <chrisccoulson> however, i do get another crash due to missing library
[20:01] <chrisccoulson> it's missing a library called rhpl.translate.
[20:02] <jl_> well thats the error I have
[20:02] <jl_> missing rhpl.translate
[20:03] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. your bug has been marked a duplicate of another, but it isn't actually a duplicate
[20:04] <chrisccoulson> i wonder if the retracer did that
[20:04] <chrisccoulson> it did
[20:06] <jl_> _Zeus_: marked it as duplicate ..
[20:06] <chrisccoulson> looking through the activity log, it says the retracer marked it as a duplicate
[20:06] <chrisccoulson> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-config-samba/+bug/280872/+activity
[20:07] <chrisccoulson> i might contact pitti
[20:09] <maco> crimsun: no
[20:10] <maco> crimsun: iwl4965 from l-u-m works but *might* be causing panics. iwl4965 from l-b-m doesn't work. iwlagn from intrepid is known to kernel panic.
[20:11] <crimsun> maco: I know that much; I was referring to reading the git tree.
[20:12] <chrisccoulson> jl_ - I don't think these missing libraries even exist in Ubuntu
[20:12] <maco> crimsun: they're different drivers in hardy and intrepid. intrepid has iwlagn. hardy has iwl4965
[20:13] <crimsun> maco: I /know/ they're different drivers.  I was referring to reading the actual git tree.  (Am I being unclear here?)
[20:13] <jl_> chrisccoulson: maby yes, but then this should be fixxed ?
[20:13] <maco> crimsun: i dont understand reading the git tree. how'm i supposed to know what's going on in there?
[20:13] <maco> crimsun: or rather, to understand
[20:14] <crimsun> maco: use the upstream bug trackers to crossreference the /source code/
[20:14] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure it will be fixed at this late stage.
[20:14] <chrisccoulson> and system-config-samba is not in debian either
[20:14] <chrisccoulson> it's more likely that it will just be dropped probably
[20:14] <chrisccoulson> i don't know though
[20:20] <maco> crimsun: no mention of panics with iwl4965 on kernel.org's bugzilla
[20:30] <maco> huh this is ironic
[20:30] <maco> the only computer i have that doesn't kernel panic every few days has an ati card and broadcom wireless
[20:30] <maco> the ones that kernel panic all the time...all intel
[20:31] <crimsun> why is that ironic?  it's not as if ati & bcm hw is awful with crappy drivers.
[20:32] <maco> crimsun: well intel generally has very nice drivers by comparison
[20:33] <maco> maybe not on the stability metric though
[20:37] <maco> crimsun: can you help me set up netconsole some time to try to catch the kernel panics?
[20:37] <crimsun> sure, but likely not before OLF
[20:37] <maco> crimsun: yeah, i know, after
[20:43] <_Zeus_> hey guys, is this a bug?
[20:43] <_Zeus_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/55764/
[20:43] <_Zeus_>  /$ apt-cache policy python-compizconfig
[20:43] <_Zeus_> python-compizconfig:
[20:43] <_Zeus_>   Installed: 0.7.7+git20080618-0ubuntu1
[20:43] <_Zeus_>   Candidate: 0.7.7+git20080618-0ubuntu1
[20:45] <_Zeus_> anyone??? bug?
[20:45] <crimsun> sec.
[20:45] <_Zeus_> sure
[20:46] <crimsun> (on a high-latency, high-jitter connection, so updating takes a few minutes)
[20:55] <_Zeus_> anyone?  should i submit a bug?
[20:56] <crimsun> sec.
[20:57] <crimsun> _Zeus_: no, it's not a bug per se.  You happen to be attempting to upgrade while python-compizconfig hasn't been dinstalled to the main archive.
[20:57] <_Zeus_> crimsun: got it, so no bug report
[20:57] <_Zeus_> they'll fix it themselves?
[20:58] <crimsun> _Zeus_: please see https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compizconfig-python/0.7.8-0ubuntu1/+build/734075; note that it takes some time between completing compile and distributing to main archive.
[20:58] <_Zeus_> crimsun: the page doesn't exist?
[20:59] <crimsun> ok, try https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/amd64/python-compizconfig/0.7.8-0ubuntu1
[20:59] <crimsun> that's for the arch that I use, though, so beware.
[21:00] <_Zeus_> umm
[21:00] <_Zeus_> as in, i could download that?
[21:00] <crimsun> yes, for that arch
[21:01] <crimsun> but - don't do that normally.  I'm simply saying that you need to wait an hour, and it will be installable from the main archive.
[21:09] <gilligan_> hi
[21:10] <crimsun> gilligan_: hi
[21:11] <gilligan_> my intrepid (amd64/SamsungQ45) installation is right now thrashing so hard it takes up to a minute to log in on any tty .. I am looking for information that would be of use for reporting this as bug
[21:11] <gilligan_> finally getting closer to logging in .. system load is reported as 0.81 , but swap usage is 100%
[21:11] <gilligan_> so something is really eating up memory
[21:12] <gilligan_> memory usage only at 45% tho, so I don't know why swap is being used that much
[21:12] <gilligan_> any suggestions on how to approach this so that I can provide some proper information?
[21:13] <crimsun> sure, ping me in #ubuntu+1.  Please tell the amount of RAM, for instance.
[21:49] <steve555> Hi everyone#
[21:50] <bdmurray> steve555: hello
[21:51] <steve555> Hi bdmurray.
[21:51] <steve555> How is the firefox triarging getting on?
[21:52] <bdmurray> pretty well I believe
[21:52] <steve555> Cool,anything I can do to help?I know nothing about programming.
[21:53] <bdmurray> steve555: absolutely, you don't need to know programming to improve the quality of bug reports and move them along the triaging process
[21:56] <steve555> That's great,I have noticed after yesterday's updates that when I ran firefox,it would just freeze on me occasionally.I haven't tried it tonight,even though I have updated twice today.I'm using Kubuntu Intrepid Ibex Beta.
[22:44] <txwikinger> This is weird.. I cannot access https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/236822
[22:46] <nhandler_> txwikinger: I can't access it either. That is strange.
[22:46] <james_w> txwikinger: why is that weird?
[22:47] <james_w> I mean do you expect to be able to access it?
[22:47] <nhandler_> Wait, txwikinger is it an ubuntu bug?
[22:47] <txwikinger> yes
[22:47] <james_w> er, why do^ sorry
[22:47] <txwikinger> I would think so
[22:48] <txwikinger> It is on the Hug Day listing with the title "P3: Gutsy freezes when loggin out or shutting down"
[22:48] <james_w> ah, maybe it's a typo
[22:48] <nhandler_> txwikinger: I don't know how to verify, but if it is a bug in a package other than Ubuntu, and it is set to private, then that would explain why we can not access it
[22:49] <james_w> apport causes Ubuntu bugs to be private for a while
[22:49] <james_w> I mean really private
[22:50] <nhandler_> james_w: I thought bug control members were meant to be able to access private bugs from apport
[22:50] <txwikinger> Well.. it seems to be an ubuntu bug
[22:50] <james_w> we can only see them normally as it subscribes the crash bug triagers when it has done its thing, up to that point you can't
[22:50] <txwikinger> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/236822
[22:50] <txwikinger> has the same result
[22:50] <txwikinger> well.. I will try it later again then
[22:50] <james_w> so sometimes a user will arrive here and say "I just reported 123456 through apport" and you won't be able to see it yet
[22:51] <james_w> txwikinger: but if it's on the hug day list I would guess that's not the case, because the person that put it on the list probably wouldn't have been able to see it either
[22:51] <txwikinger> well.. it should not be a brand new bug
[22:51] <txwikinger> that too
[22:52] <nhandler_> james_w: I don't think they generate the lists by hand. I think they use a script.
[22:52] <txwikinger> I am wondering if they did something that big control cannot access private bugs anymore
[22:52] <txwikinger> bug control that is
[22:52] <james_w> nhandler_: that's true, you might want to ask Mr. Murray.
[22:53] <james_w> txwikinger: I doubt it, I was looking at a couple a little while ago.
[22:53] <txwikinger> ok... I just looked at one too
[22:53] <bdmurray> txwikinger: what list was that on?
[22:54] <nhandler_> bdmurray: The bug day list
[22:54] <txwikinger> the one from 20081007
[22:54] <txwikinger> triaged bugs that should be set incomplete if no response after the request to test on intrepid
[22:55] <bdmurray> it's a "private-private" and shouldn't have made the list
[22:55] <txwikinger> Aha.. the aliens have undermined canonical too :D
[22:56] <bdmurray> generally scripts are used to make the lists and that bug showing up was an oversight on our part
[22:56] <txwikinger> Well.. in this case I will not report a bug against launchpad :)
[23:00] <bdmurray> thanks for bringing it up
[23:06] <mrooney> hm, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs doesn't even mention anything about looking for duplicates
[23:06] <mrooney> bdmurray: do you suppose it should?
[23:07] <bdmurray> mrooney: its kind of in the "When not to file a bug"
[23:08] <bdmurray> also I think it is somewhat easier to make a bug a duplicate of another than it is to tell someone to file a new bug report because the bug they thought was their's really isn't
[23:08] <mrooney> bdmurray: ahh yes, so it is, I just skimmed it and then searched for "duplicate"
[23:09] <mrooney> bdmurray: yeah, that's a good point
[23:09] <mrooney> well then it is probably fine :)
[23:18] <tuxmaniac> under what package should bugs related to Media keys on the laptop be under?
[23:19] <tuxmaniac> I mean the Vol Up/Dn keys, Play , Stop etc.
[23:19] <tuxmaniac> it doesnt work anymore on my Dell XPS laptop after I just upgraded to Intrepid
[23:27] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: either acpi-support or hotkey-setup.  It looks like the latter.
[23:27] <crimsun> (at least it doesn't appear to be for xserver-xorg-input-evdev...)
[23:28] <tuxmaniac> yeah. But I put it under linuxsource as there were a couple of other similar media key bug reports on other laptops reported under previous ubuntu releases
[23:28] <tuxmaniac> do i change it?
[23:29] <crimsun> tuxmaniac: I suggest doing so
[23:29] <bdmurray> This might be helpful - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting#Problem%20involves%20keyboard%20input%20ceasing%20to%20work
[23:30] <bdmurray> more the missing support section
[23:31] <tuxmaniac> bdmurray: thanks.