| === Rafik_ is now known as Rafik | ||
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| davidm | OK mobile meeting is about to start | 13:00 |
|---|---|---|
| lool | #startmeeting | 13:01 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 07:01. The chair is lool. | 13:01 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 13:01 |
| lool | Roll call \o/ | 13:01 |
| davidm | thanks lool | 13:01 |
| StevenK | Yay! | 13:01 |
| lool | #topic roll call | 13:01 |
| StevenK | Made it, sir! | 13:01 |
| * cgregan waves | 13:01 | |
| lool | [topic] roll call | 13:01 |
| MootBot | New Topic: roll call | 13:01 |
| * davidm thinks he is alive, but is not sure. | 13:01 | |
| lool | cgregan, StevenK, persia, amitk, davidm, ogra, lool | 13:01 |
| * lool waves | 13:01 | |
| * ogra waves | 13:02 | |
| * StevenK waves | 13:02 | |
| * davidm Waves | 13:02 | |
| persia | 13:02 | |
| lool | looking at last week's actions | 13:02 |
| lool | none? | 13:03 |
| lool | is "# | 13:03 |
| lool | cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO) " | 13:03 |
| lool | still an action? | 13:03 |
| lool | [topic] cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO) | 13:03 |
| MootBot | New Topic: cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO) | 13:03 |
| lool | cgregan: woot | 13:03 |
| cgregan | lool: I have compared | 13:03 |
| cgregan | Gthumb is a bit less resource hungry | 13:03 |
| lool | cgregan: Cool, did you write down a summary in a wiki page or email? | 13:03 |
| lool | otherwise, fine to do it here | 13:04 |
| cgregan | lool: That I still need to do | 13:04 |
| lool | cgregan: mpt did a nice empathy/pidgin comparison for the ubuntu desktop's im client | 13:04 |
| lool | on wiki.ubuntu.com | 13:04 |
| cgregan | yes | 13:04 |
| cgregan | I have seen that | 13:04 |
| persia | I don't think we need that much detail : I just want some sort of photo viewer in the seed. | 13:04 |
| cgregan | it may be a bit intense for my bandwidth right now | 13:04 |
| lool | Would be nice to have some much shorter one here as well | 13:04 |
| cgregan | I will put together an email | 13:05 |
| lool | I just wanted to mention this review because it's very complete, so can be inspirational for yours | 13:05 |
| lool | But I don't expect the same level of completeness; he spent a long time on it | 13:05 |
| cgregan | YEs | 13:05 |
| StevenK | And we already seeded gthumb | 13:05 |
| cgregan | :-) | 13:05 |
| lool | cgregan: So your recommendation is gthumb? | 13:05 |
| StevenK | Thank $DEITY we agree! | 13:05 |
| lool | cgregan: Did you try importing photos from a camera or the like? | 13:06 |
| cgregan | Well....glad I liked it better then! :-) | 13:06 |
| persia | cgregan, Well we could have changed it if your findings differed | 13:06 |
| cgregan | lool: I did....but only had one camera | 13:06 |
| lool | [agreed] prefer gthumb over f-spot | 13:06 |
| MootBot | AGREED received: prefer gthumb over f-spot | 13:06 |
| lool | cgregan: I'd love to have some URL to which I can point people for the choice of photo software, so a wiki page or email to public list is nice; this IRC meeting log could do otherwise | 13:07 |
| lool | Anything else to discuss on this topic? moving on? | 13:07 |
| cgregan | I can put up a wiki. | 13:07 |
| lool | perfect thanks | 13:07 |
| lool | [topic] StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability | 13:07 |
| MootBot | New Topic: StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability | 13:07 |
| StevenK | They're both done | 13:08 |
| lool | StevenK: (muahah) | 13:08 |
| StevenK | You even have the links to them | 13:08 |
| lool | I do? | 13:08 |
| StevenK | I thought I mailed them to you | 13:08 |
| persia | Which is the correct agenda? I'm looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20081009 but it doesn't seem to match. | 13:08 |
| lool | you did! | 13:08 |
| StevenK | Hah! | 13:08 |
| lool | [link] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-boot-menu | 13:09 |
| MootBot | LINK received: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-boot-menu | 13:09 |
| davidm | persia, I just fixed pages | 13:09 |
| lool | [link] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-launcher | 13:09 |
| MootBot | LINK received: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-launcher | 13:09 |
| davidm | will fix them again post this meeting so they don't go a week out of date my bad | 13:09 |
| lool | Moving to current items for this week | 13:09 |
| lool | [topic] status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc. (davidm) | 13:09 |
| MootBot | New Topic: status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc. (davidm) | 13:09 |
| StevenK | I think the only relevant thing on that list is the installer | 13:10 |
| StevenK | images are done, but currently broken | 13:10 |
| lool | AFAIK, three major things are installation of MID images and linux-restricted-lpia as well as madwifi/ath5k on Q1U | 13:10 |
| lool | StevenK: You fixed lrm-lpia or are about to complete? | 13:10 |
| lool | StevenK: Or will this complete tomorrow? | 13:10 |
| persia | Which works except that lpia thinks it uses i686 CPUs for some reason, which we're working around. | 13:10 |
| ogra | the latter is something amitk works on atm | 13:10 |
| StevenK | Need confirmation, waiting for Soyuz | 13:10 |
| lool | StevenK: Can we expect them tonight still, or tomorrow? | 13:11 |
| StevenK | lool: "Dealing with" is the current status | 13:11 |
| lool | StevenK: Ok; so lpia-lrm in progress | 13:11 |
| lool | this should fix the images | 13:11 |
| StevenK | I suspect I'm also fixing the installer, due to fiddling with the seeds | 13:11 |
| lool | then mid might or might not install, might be using wrong kernel? | 13:11 |
| lool | or no kenrel? | 13:11 |
| persia | You're working around the remaining installer bug, which will be fixed properly in ubiquity 1.10.5 | 13:11 |
| StevenK | The former | 13:12 |
| lool | so I'm aware of grub missing from the images | 13:12 |
| lool | then 686 being used instead of lpia for kernel flavor (IIUC) | 13:12 |
| lool | and the mid image failing to build due to lpia-lrm not being installable | 13:12 |
| persia | lool, No. lpia uses lpia kernel flavour. dpkg-architecture thinks it's i686 | 13:12 |
| lool | anything else on the lpia/mid images? | 13:12 |
| lool | persia: Thinks that the CPU is i686? that's fine | 13:13 |
| lool | DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU=i686 is correct | 13:13 |
| persia | Is it? | 13:13 |
| lool | What's the problem you're seeing? | 13:13 |
| persia | failure of DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU to meaningfully match DEB_HOST_ARCH | 13:14 |
| persia | Specifically, for multiple arches to have the same CPU values. | 13:14 |
| persia | It broke the mapping, which is why we don't have grub today (which we're working around). it's not worth fixing, but it's certainly confusing. | 13:14 |
| lool | ah actually it might not be | 13:15 |
| lool | In fact you don't want to use ARCH_CPU | 13:15 |
| persia | No? | 13:15 |
| lool | Ok, what's using ARCH_CPU? | 13:15 |
| persia | ubiquity uses it to determine which is the correct bootloader | 13:15 |
| lool | For upstream software, we should check GNU_CPU | 13:15 |
| persia | No, this is just debian/rules + debian/control | 13:16 |
| lool | the difference between _ARCH and _ARCH_CPU is that one has the kernel when it's not linux | 13:16 |
| lool | For instance on kfreebsd-i386 and -amd64, they differ; otherwise they should be the same | 13:16 |
| persia | Right, which is required for kfreebsd, etc. in Debian. | 13:16 |
| lool | So I guess you're correct that i686 is the wrong value | 13:16 |
| lool | (I thought we were discussing the other _CPU which should be i686) | 13:16 |
| persia | It's at least a confusing value. Fixing it would be exceedingly painful. | 13:16 |
| lool | Yeah | 13:17 |
| lool | I don't see us changing that at this point | 13:17 |
| lool | So let's go with an _ARCH check? | 13:17 |
| persia | That's the consensus. | 13:17 |
| persia | ubiquity has a workaround committed, and the seeds have a workaround committed waiting for the ubiquity workaround upload. | 13:17 |
| lool | Ok; so this ubiquity issue is understood and pending an upload to workaround it | 13:17 |
| lool | ogra: what's today's status on ath5k/madwifi? | 13:18 |
| ogra | amit wanted to start working on it today | 13:18 |
| ogra | i didnt hear anything back from rtg beyond that he will pull in a LBM package into intrepid-updates | 13:18 |
| lool | Ok, so someone is working on it | 13:19 |
| ogra | which doesnt help us for release | 13:19 |
| ogra | amit offered adding a pci quirk to blacklist the module on Q1 | 13:19 |
| StevenK | The seeds are commited. | 13:19 |
| lool | ogra: sounds good | 13:19 |
| ogra | which i think is our best option | 13:19 |
| StevenK | I'm not sure if I pushed, and I'm in the middle of ./update | 13:19 |
| lool | ogra: Let's go with this; can I [action] you to push a fix before next week? | 13:19 |
| * StevenK stops looking for his seed checkout on cocoplum | 13:19 | |
| lool | If the PCI quirk can't be done, we will resort to some blacklist sadly | 13:20 |
| ogra | so waiting for feedback from amit on the quirk a,d then waiting for rtg for the backported 2.6.28 modules | 13:20 |
| ogra | sure | 13:20 |
| ogra | yeah | 13:20 |
| lool | [action] ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi | 13:20 |
| ogra | blecklist would be the most trivial then | 13:20 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi | 13:20 |
| ogra | *black | 13:20 |
| lool | persia: Concerning ubiquity, can I assign you to make sure lpia installs (even from a bzr ubiquity)? | 13:21 |
| lool | s#lpia#lpia/mid | 13:21 |
| persia | lool, OK. It installs today, as long as you put grub in filesystem.squashfs before you try. | 13:21 |
| lool | ogra: Please only consider blacklist as last resort -- as discussed already | 13:21 |
| ogra | indeed | 13:21 |
| lool | persia: I want to make sure we land an installable image asap | 13:21 |
| StevenK | Hm. No push, since it's a bound branch, duh. | 13:21 |
| lool | persia: so with the grub seed fixes and bzr ubiquity it works from top to bottom? | 13:22 |
| StevenK | lool: mobile-meta will be uploaded shortly | 13:22 |
| ogra | just wanted to point out thats a one upload thing | 13:22 |
| StevenK | lool: *or* | 13:22 |
| persia | lool, It should. I'll let you know in ~10 hours. | 13:22 |
| lool | ogra: Ok, indeed | 13:22 |
| StevenK | With the grub seed fixes *or* bzr ubiquity it works | 13:22 |
| lool | persia: Thanks; mind if I action to revisit this next week? | 13:22 |
| persia | No. | 13:22 |
| StevenK | Ah | 13:22 |
| StevenK | Okay | 13:22 |
| lool | [action] persia to make sure lpia/mid installs with trunk versions of seeds and ubiquty | 13:23 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: persia to make sure lpia/mid installs with trunk versions of seeds and ubiquty | 13:23 |
| lool | StevenK: can I action you for fixing lrm-lpia installability? | 13:23 |
| persia | Well, I'll actually make sure the dailies install :) | 13:23 |
| lool | OMG it's action day | 13:23 |
| persia | Chasing trunk is *hard* | 13:23 |
| StevenK | lool: You can, but I've likely already done it | 13:23 |
| lool | [action] StevenK to make sure lpia-lrm reaches archive and is installable | 13:24 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: StevenK to make sure lpia-lrm reaches archive and is installable | 13:24 |
| lool | StevenK: Things are too easy for you | 13:24 |
| StevenK | Oh, are they? | 13:24 |
| lool | StevenK: i'll need to action you with harder stuff! | 13:24 |
| ogra | 120 pushups ? | 13:24 |
| StevenK | I used to be able to do that :-( | 13:24 |
| persia | It's a matter of practice | 13:24 |
| * ogra was never in his life in the three digit area ... | 13:25 | |
| lool | [topic] amitk - kernel issues | 13:25 |
| MootBot | New Topic: amitk - kernel issues | 13:25 |
| ogra | is he here ? | 13:25 |
| lool | who put that topic? was it amitk himself? | 13:25 |
| lool | he isn't around to comment sadly | 13:25 |
| lool | I poked him to join | 13:25 |
| ogra | i think that was david | 13:25 |
| lool | davidm: What were your discussion topics? linux/linux-lpia merging? | 13:26 |
| lool | [action] carry over: amitk - kernel issues (davidm) | 13:26 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: carry over: amitk - kernel issues (davidm) | 13:26 |
| lool | [topic] StevenK's status | 13:26 |
| MootBot | New Topic: StevenK's status | 13:26 |
| lool | StevenK: How is it going? | 13:27 |
| davidm | I added amitk kernel issues in case there were any | 13:27 |
| lool | (agenda is a bit werid TBH) | 13:27 |
| StevenK | Dealing with Kourou, which is uploaded, LRM, now seeds | 13:27 |
| davidm | but kernel team is busy this week | 13:27 |
| lool | davidm: We'll revisit at end of meeting if he comes up, otherwise next week | 13:27 |
| davidm | yes | 13:27 |
| StevenK | Oh, and Soyuz bugs | 13:28 |
| lool | Eh | 13:28 |
| lool | Ok; StevenK: any blocker? | 13:28 |
| StevenK | Sleep | 13:28 |
| lool | [topic] Installation of language packs and network access at install time (EmmetHikory) | 13:28 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Installation of language packs and network access at install time (EmmetHikory) | 13:28 |
| StevenK | But that is painful to fix | 13:28 |
| lool | persia: woot | 13:29 |
| persia | Those were last week. | 13:29 |
| ogra | StevenK, thats a post release action :) | 13:29 |
| StevenK | Hah | 13:29 |
| persia | This week I want to talk about bug #280014. It's in progress, and ought be sorted tomorrow. | 13:29 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 280014 in ubiquity "Cannot install with a blank password" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280014 | 13:29 |
| persia | Once that's done, and in the images, I'll want to push a change to casper to put ubuntu-mid installation into --automatic mode, and it should be clean. | 13:30 |
| lool | persia: sorry, they are lsited in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20081009 | 13:30 |
| StevenK | persia: cjwatson disagreed with the change, from what I saw | 13:30 |
| lool | [topic] installation with blank password | 13:30 |
| MootBot | New Topic: installation with blank password | 13:30 |
| persia | StevenK, The disagreement was with the implementation, as the way I did it broke the UI. I'm working on an alternate implementation that doesn't do that. | 13:31 |
| lool | persia: so status is that you made the debconf additions to have a flag to allow this and this needs uploads? | 13:31 |
| persia | Essentially, I first just ignored blank passwords, but the user then presses next and gets an error. | 13:31 |
| StevenK | persia: Ah, okay | 13:31 |
| lool | ok, pending a bug fix | 13:31 |
| persia | I need to check the preseed values in the ubiquity frontend, and use that to determine whether to allow the user to proceed. | 13:31 |
| persia | lool, The debconf changes and d-i stuff is complete. I'm just working on the ubiquity front-ends. | 13:32 |
| lool | persia: I guess I can also skip "Switching to ISO9660 images instead of USB images" then? | 13:32 |
| persia | Yeah, last week we determined that we weren't doing that. I believe I was supposed to start a spec about it, but I didn't start it yet. | 13:33 |
| davidm | It's gone | 13:33 |
| lool | thanks | 13:33 |
| lool | persia: any blocker? | 13:33 |
| lool | persia: anything else you're working on? | 13:33 |
| persia | No real blockers. I'm looking forward to the landing of the install-from-USB fixes underway, but not actively involved. I've been looking at the lpia desktop alternate CD installer, which still has some issues, but I don't consider that intrepid-critical. | 13:34 |
| lool | [action] persia to write spec on providing iso images or vm support or how to write mobile images for end users | 13:34 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: persia to write spec on providing iso images or vm support or how to write mobile images for end users | 13:34 |
| lool | [topic] lool status | 13:35 |
| MootBot | New Topic: lool status | 13:35 |
| persia | What? I'm not going to do that. | 13:35 |
| ogra | what ? | 13:35 |
| lool | status is currently here, chairing your meeting | 13:35 |
| ogra | why is that ? | 13:35 |
| persia | I'll write release notes if the problem can't be fixed. | 13:35 |
| * ogra thought we were over the iso stuff | 13:35 | |
| * persia too | 13:36 | |
| lool | persia: "I believe I was supposed to write a spec about it", davidm proposed that I action you on it | 13:36 |
| ogra | jaunty wont need it because the nstaler will be fixed | 13:36 |
| lool | I thought we were done as well, but perhaps you wanted to spec something for intrepid | 13:36 |
| lool | err jaunty | 13:36 |
| persia | OK. That makes more sense. Sure, I'll write a spec for Jaunty. | 13:36 |
| lool | Ok; so we'll drop the action from wiki or dismiss next week :) | 13:36 |
| ogra | and your mini iso will fix it for intrepid | 13:36 |
| StevenK | Seed changes uploaded | 13:36 |
| lool | ok | 13:36 |
| lool | back to my status, I've been helping around with misc issues as usual lately; nothing blocking to report | 13:37 |
| lool | I'm playing with jax10 hardware | 13:37 |
| * ogra wants ... | 13:37 | |
| lool | [topic] ogra's /proc/self/status | 13:38 |
| MootBot | New Topic: ogra's /proc/self/status | 13:38 |
| ogra | all fine, chasing some general intepid bugs that also affect mobile | 13:38 |
| lool | ogra: So, how is it going? | 13:38 |
| lool | good | 13:38 |
| lool | ogra: blocked on anything? anything intrepid critical you'd like to mention? | 13:38 |
| ogra | i.e. the compiz doesnt allow dpms one | 13:38 |
| ogra | only that i still have a bunch of .fdi file changes to make for touchscreens | 13:39 |
| ogra | i found a proper successor for ltsp | 13:39 |
| lool | eh | 13:39 |
| ogra | stgraber will take that over from em | 13:39 |
| ogra | *me | 13:39 |
| ogra | so i can do ltsp upstream but got the packaging off my back | 13:39 |
| ogra | i.e. everything that pust duties on me with ltsp is gone | 13:40 |
| lool | Good news | 13:40 |
| ogra | yeah | 13:40 |
| lool | Ok, moving on | 13:40 |
| ogra | will give me more free time in jaunty | 13:40 |
| lool | [topic] special guest cgregan's status | 13:40 |
| MootBot | New Topic: special guest cgregan's status | 13:40 |
| cgregan | :-) | 13:40 |
| lool | cgregan: would you like to mention anything intrepid related or blocking :) | 13:40 |
| ogra | oh, and i wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting | 13:40 |
| lool | or anything relevantr eally | 13:40 |
| lool | [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting | 13:40 |
| MootBot | LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting | 13:40 |
| cgregan | Worked on a new landing page for the cases yesterday | 13:41 |
| cgregan | Since we now have mobile and MID versions | 13:41 |
| cgregan | it seemed like a good idea | 13:41 |
| * ogra needs to go over that one | 13:41 | |
| ogra | the text is a bit confusing ... | 13:41 |
| cgregan | Also....reviewing some potential testers for this team | 13:41 |
| cgregan | ogra: the text on the landing page? | 13:42 |
| ogra | (note mobile is not centric on netbooks, but on UMPCs) | 13:42 |
| ogra | i.e. focused on touchscreen use | 13:42 |
| lool | it's also ok with netbooks :) | 13:42 |
| cgregan | Mobile or MID? | 13:42 |
| ogra | right | 13:42 |
| ogra | mobile | 13:42 |
| cgregan | then MID is? | 13:42 |
| lool | MID is MID and UMPC :) | 13:42 |
| cgregan | hehe | 13:43 |
| persia | For MIDs. Currently only the Aigo or the D4, but could be more. | 13:43 |
| lool | mobile is UMPC and netbooks and MID :) | 13:43 |
| ogra | you can very well use mobile on netbooks but mobile *is* for UMPCs without keyboards | 13:43 |
| cgregan | ok....as long as it is not confusing! :-) | 13:43 |
| lool | and Ubuntu Desktop is desktops laptops mids umpc netbooks | 13:43 |
| persia | Mobile works *great* with a keyboard. | 13:43 |
| ogra | sure | 13:43 |
| lool | Server is servers desktops laptops netbooks umpcs and mids | 13:43 |
| persia | No. -desktop doesn't work very well for MIDs (I've tried). | 13:43 |
| ogra | but the mobile UI was designed with touchscreen in mind | 13:43 |
| persia | ogra, Sure, but it also works the other way. Be inclusive :) | 13:44 |
| cgregan | Ok....so we need to clarify what we are building these for.....and update the wiki | 13:44 |
| lool | persia: It works better than minimal in my experience | 13:44 |
| persia | lool, I guess, but there are better options. | 13:44 |
| ogra | persia, currently the test case says mobile is the version we designed for netbooks | 13:44 |
| lool | cgregan: So in general you're calling for contributions to the QA test cases? | 13:45 |
| persia | Hrm. That's not very inclusive. | 13:45 |
| lool | I also saw davmor2 work on them | 13:45 |
| cgregan | lool: Yes....and this clarification | 13:45 |
| cgregan | I have been pulling UNR cases over to cover mobile....since the former mobile cases are now MID | 13:45 |
| lool | ogra: Well it's better suited for netbooks than desktop still :-) but it shouldn't restrict to netbooks | 13:45 |
| cgregan | But I have a feeling there are inaccuracies | 13:45 |
| ogra | right | 13:45 |
| lool | cgregan: I think we need to clarify this for everybody's sake | 13:46 |
| cgregan | lool: yes | 13:46 |
| persia | cgregan, If you have some time, I'd be happy to discuss in #ubuntu-mobile after the meeting. | 13:46 |
| ogra | lool, i had a bunch of complaints from umpcportal users that wanted to see UMPC mentioned ... | 13:46 |
| lool | The way I see it, everything will work more or less on netbooks, mids, and umpcs, but the experience is really different | 13:46 |
| ogra | so i like to advertise mobile as designed for touchscreen driven UMPCs but also usable on netbooks atm | 13:47 |
| * persia points at the clock, and suggests further discussion after the meeting. | 13:47 | |
| cgregan | persia: More calls after this, but perhaps a little later, or in your morning | 13:47 |
| persia | cgregan, OK. | 13:47 |
| * lool welcomes persia's pointer to the clock | 13:47 | |
| cgregan | That's it for me | 13:47 |
| lool | Thanks Chris | 13:47 |
| lool | It seems on topic to mention a new position at Canonical *cough* | 13:47 |
| lool | [topic] new QA position at Canonical | 13:48 |
| MootBot | New Topic: new QA position at Canonical | 13:48 |
| davidm | We are looking for someone with a commercial background | 13:48 |
| cgregan | yes...looking over some candidate info today | 13:48 |
| lool | For people reading this, there's a job opening in the mobile team at Canonical | 13:48 |
| davidm | http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_MIDQA/ | 13:48 |
| MootBot | LINK received: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_MIDQA/ | 13:48 |
| lool | Ok; that should get the attention of people reading the minutes | 13:48 |
| lool | Moving to davidm's stauts | 13:48 |
| davidm | Yep, thanks | 13:48 |
| lool | [topic] davidm's status | 13:49 |
| MootBot | New Topic: davidm's status | 13:49 |
| davidm | I've been in meetings and paperwork all week | 13:49 |
| lool | coffeed or not coffeed is the question | 13:49 |
| ogra | heh | 13:49 |
| davidm | the QA position was one output | 13:49 |
| StevenK | Being in paperwork sounds uncomfortable | 13:49 |
| davidm | the other is a bit of a focus change | 13:49 |
| davidm | Once we clear the intrepid critical bugs we should have a look at the rest of the intrepid bug list | 13:50 |
| davidm | https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs | 13:50 |
| davidm | And see where we might be able to help a bit. | 13:50 |
| davidm | So fix intrepid critical bugs and then help the other teams with their intrepid critical bugs :-) | 13:51 |
| lool | Ok; davidm are you blocked on anything where you could be helped by the team? | 13:51 |
| lool | and anything else intrepid critical which yuo'd like to mention? | 13:51 |
| ogra | davidm, mobile is affected by most of the desktop things there anyway | 13:51 |
| davidm | No, I'm not blocked, and I appreciate your suggestion last week of a rotating secretary within the team | 13:52 |
| davidm | that will help me a great deal | 13:52 |
| davidm | thanks for all of the output last week | 13:52 |
| lool | So I've picked up October and will call for a November secretary again as we near up | 13:52 |
| davidm | Once we have images again that install I'm happy to help were ever we can. | 13:52 |
| lool | Any other topic? | 13:52 |
| davidm | not from me. | 13:53 |
| lool | We need to fill up the last 8 minutes, I can't let people wander off freely before the end of the hour | 13:53 |
| pitti | hi | 13:53 |
| StevenK | You can't?! | 13:53 |
| StevenK | You monster! | 13:53 |
| lool | Well you're under my responsability | 13:53 |
| ogra | heh | 13:53 |
| lool | What if you're hit by a truck? | 13:53 |
| persia | Is there anyone else who wants to raise anything? | 13:53 |
| lool | Ok; thanks everybody for attending | 13:53 |
| lool | #endmeeting | 13:53 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 07:53. | 13:53 |
| cgregan | thanks | 13:54 |
| * lool waves to desktop team | 13:54 | |
| Riddell | hi | 13:56 |
| pitti | hey everyone | 14:00 |
| pitti | desktop team ready? | 14:00 |
| pitti | seb128, Riddell, kwwii, mvo, Keybuk ? | 14:00 |
| seb128 | hey pitti | 14:01 |
| pitti | (well mvo-ish) | 14:01 |
| kwwii | pitti: I am here :-) | 14:02 |
| Riddell | hi pitti | 14:03 |
| mvo | hello | 14:03 |
| mvo | I'm still part of the team until the 20th, then I move to foundations :) | 14:03 |
| pitti | ok, Keybuk might still be recovering | 14:03 |
| pitti | mvo: oh, good to know | 14:03 |
| pitti | #startmeeting | 14:03 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 08:04. The chair is pitti. | 14:04 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 14:04 |
| pitti | [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-09 | 14:04 |
| MootBot | LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-09 | 14:04 |
| pitti | today's meeting template | 14:04 |
| pitti | I didn't see any explicit agenda items, did I miss any? | 14:04 |
| pitti | I saw the langpack and bluez problems from Riddell, and I plan to go through some RC bugs | 14:05 |
| pitti | tedg: here by chance? some questions involve you, too | 14:05 |
| kwwii | pitti: I just want to make sure that the gnome-themes stuff gets done as well as reverting ubuntu-sounds | 14:05 |
| pitti | let's add that to the topic | 14:06 |
| tedg | pitti: Yes, for a little while. The conference picks up in an hour, and I have to walk over (no IRC there) | 14:06 |
| pitti | tedg: great, thanks | 14:06 |
| pitti | [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting | 14:06 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Outstanding actions from last meeting | 14:06 |
| pitti | seb128 to propose three options for bug 274146 | 14:06 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 274146 in gnome-session "Has not yet replaced the existing log out applet" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274146 | 14:07 |
| pitti | that has happened (thanks) | 14:07 |
| seb128 | done | 14:07 |
| pitti | however, we didn't really get closer to a decision | 14:07 |
| seb128 | extra suggestions followed and discussion | 14:07 |
| seb128 | and the bug stalled since | 14:07 |
| pitti | or, rather, we seem to have several different personal preferences, but it's a bit unclear who is to decide | 14:07 |
| seb128 | it's rather than we are getting late, some options are not changes you want to land one week before intrepid | 14:08 |
| pitti | tedg: I left some questions to your latest reply, wrt. going back to hardy with the updated gconf setup, is that actually possible? or is it an one-way thing? | 14:08 |
| seb128 | ie changing user datas would require testing | 14:08 |
| pitti | seb128: what's your preference, BTW? | 14:08 |
| tedg | pitti: It should be okay. As then the panel will drop the new FUSA applet and pick up the old one. It won't rewrite it's config, we'd only be appending. | 14:09 |
| seb128 | I've to admit I didn't think about the issue for a few days and I've been coming forth and back so not really sure right now | 14:09 |
| pitti | tedg: oh, I see; but you'd change the logout applet, too? | 14:09 |
| seb128 | I think what mvo suggested (the update-notified hook to update the config) | 14:09 |
| tedg | pitti: Yes, but that would then be the same. On Intrepid it would pick up the new logout applet if a user put it there, but on Hardy it would do the old one. | 14:10 |
| pitti | tedg: hm, that sounds good actually | 14:10 |
| seb128 | what option is that one? | 14:10 |
| pitti | tedg: on the topic of feasibility, could you actually work on that, so that we can test it soon? | 14:10 |
| pitti | tedg: it would be triggered by what, an Xsession.d script? | 14:11 |
| pitti | or autostart .desktop or so? or by the panel itself? | 14:11 |
| tedg | seb128: The idea of changing the namespace for both the FUSA applet and the logout button. And then inserting the new applet name into the panel config. | 14:11 |
| seb128 | I don't like the namespace change option | 14:11 |
| seb128 | and would that work? | 14:12 |
| tedg | pitti: I can work on it, but I'm not getting much hacking time right now -- probably not until the weekend. | 14:12 |
| seb128 | the logout button is a panel object where fusa is an applet | 14:12 |
| tedg | pitti: The GNOME Summit is more of a hackfest, this is more talking and whiteboarding. | 14:12 |
| tedg | seb128: Correct, but they both have names. One would be a patch to GNOME Panel. | 14:12 |
| pitti | my personal feeling is, if we don't have working code for this by the next meeting, we fall back to the upstream behaviour and document it | 14:12 |
| seb128 | patch to keep forever which makes us incompatible with upstream configs? | 14:12 |
| seb128 | no thanks | 14:13 |
| pitti | (which is actually my preference) | 14:13 |
| pitti | we did the decision to have the split dialogs again, so the desktop look&feel changes *anyway* | 14:13 |
| tedg | Can we do a phone call on this? I feel like IRC/email/launchpad isn't really working towards getting agreement on where to go. | 14:14 |
| seb128 | right, the split dialog is not an issue, the issue is the green man button which is pretty much useless after upgrade | 14:14 |
| pitti | seb128: it can log out out... | 14:14 |
| seb128 | right, but it changes the sementic over what it was before | 14:14 |
| mvo | if we go with the "document" approach, we could as well use a notifier hook for the documentation | 14:14 |
| kwwii | yeah, and I have now linked the logout button to the little green man pic, so that will be going away graphicaly | 14:14 |
| seb128 | ideally we would have the new fusa or nothing there now | 14:14 |
| seb128 | mvo: what was your little python code thing doing? | 14:15 |
| pitti | mvo: *nod*, if it explains what to do, good | 14:15 |
| mvo | the notifier hook can have code attached as well, so we could add a small python script that does the required gconf juggling automatically if the user decides on it | 14:16 |
| seb128 | mvo: what was your juggling exactly? | 14:17 |
| mvo | seb128: the python code I played with jsut moves the existing fusa applet to the right coerner and removes the logout button from the object list | 14:17 |
| seb128 | mvo: deleting and adding or moving things? | 14:17 |
| pitti | mvo: could it replace logout with fusa if the user just has logout? | 14:18 |
| seb128 | mvo: if you tested it and it works that would be my favorite option | 14:18 |
| pitti | mine, too | 14:18 |
| === e-jat is now known as norly | ||
| seb128 | ask the question in update-manager after upgrade | 14:18 |
| === norly is now known as nOrly | ||
| pitti | I just don't like fully automatic gconf changing | 14:18 |
| seb128 | pitti: I would not care about people who don't have the standard ubuntu layout, they know how to customize their config | 14:18 |
| pitti | seb128: it's asked in the desktop, in update-notifier, I think | 14:19 |
| mvo | it could do a replace too, not sure if that is desirable, my initial "design" was to bail out if anything is unexcpected assuming that the user has customizations | 14:19 |
| seb128 | if fuse and session applets are there ask otherwise do nothing | 14:19 |
| pitti | seb128: but we added the logout applet earlier than fusa, so it is a standard setup situation IMHO | 14:19 |
| seb128 | +1 from me on mvo's current juggling | 14:19 |
| pitti | e. g. if the user installed edgy and upgraded since then, he would have never seen fusa | 14:19 |
| mvo | pitti: thats right | 14:20 |
| pitti | +1 from me too, if we can extend it to the "just logout applet" case, and we can get it in by next meeting | 14:20 |
| seb128 | pitti: ok, so always delete the session button on upgrade and add fusa in the corner and delete old fusa before doing that if it's used in the config? | 14:20 |
| mvo | I really shouldn't ask for more work, but I think it can done reasonably simple | 14:20 |
| * seb128 hugs mvo | 14:21 | |
| pitti | seb128: sounds right | 14:21 |
| tedg | It works for me. | 14:21 |
| seb128 | ok, agreement, every sign now ;-) | 14:21 |
| pitti | yay, an agreement! | 14:21 |
| pitti | w00t | 14:21 |
| seb128 | \o/ | 14:21 |
| * tedg looks for some Boston Tea to send mvo -- apparently they had a tea party here a while back. | 14:21 | |
| pitti | mvo: I think you are the natural victi^Wassignee now? | 14:21 |
| seb128 | everybody hug mvo! | 14:22 |
| * seb128 hugs mvo | 14:22 | |
| mvo | tedg: ohhhh, that would make me a happy man, but check the "best-before" date, the party was a while ago IIRC ;) | 14:22 |
| pitti | [ACTION] mvo to upload upgrate notification based panel gconf updating for bug #274146 | 14:22 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: mvo to upload upgrate notification based panel gconf updating for bug #274146 | 14:22 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 274146 in gnome-session "Has not yet replaced the existing log out applet" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274146 | 14:22 |
| * pitti hugs mv"hero"o | 14:22 | |
| pitti | mvo: oh, and of course we need u-m to support my new "upgrate" mode, too | 14:22 |
| pitti | (merge update and upgrade) | 14:23 |
| mvo | hu? | 14:23 |
| pitti | ok, I'm glad that we settled this | 14:23 |
| pitti | [TOPIC] kwwii: revert ubuntu-sounds | 14:23 |
| MootBot | New Topic: kwwii: revert ubuntu-sounds | 14:23 |
| pitti | kwwii: can you please give us a little heads-up? | 14:24 |
| kwwii | so, I was told to revert the sounds as they are way too close to windows vista sounds (duh! /me does not have windows) | 14:24 |
| pitti | FWIW, I just noticed the new login sound once, about 20 minutes ago | 14:24 |
| kwwii | I really like the new sounds but this came down from on high, so there is no discussion, just reverting :-) | 14:24 |
| pitti | kwwii: ok; can you please prepare a new package and poke me or seb for uploading? | 14:24 |
| kwwii | pitti: well, all we need to do is to revert to the hardy version | 14:25 |
| seb128 | just raising the issue but think way decisions are taken at the moment will not work correctly | 14:25 |
| kwwii | seb128: apparently there are quite a few people who think the sounds are too vista-like | 14:25 |
| pitti | -EPARSE | 14:25 |
| seb128 | those gnome-themes, etc decision are taken nowhere visible, not discussed and come as "you need to do those changes" on random team people now | 14:25 |
| kwwii | seb128: yeah, the gnome-themes stuff is a bit different than we normaly do things, but we have been talking about that for along time | 14:26 |
| seb128 | pitti: well, basically kwwii ping random people saying "we need to do those changes" | 14:26 |
| seb128 | pitti: changes which are neither discussed before, not documented | 14:26 |
| kwwii | seb128: the only time I do that is when I have approval or direction from sabdfl | 14:27 |
| seb128 | and not coming through a proper procedure | 14:27 |
| seb128 | kwwii: I understand that but I don't think it's a good way to do things or will scale | 14:27 |
| seb128 | you just ping random people on IRC about changes to do which are not explained, not discussed, etc | 14:27 |
| kwwii | seb128: I can understand what you are saying, I guess to some extent the artwork has always been a bit chaotic in this regard | 14:28 |
| pitti | Artwork has always had this kind of "Mark's baby" on it, though | 14:28 |
| seb128 | pitti: the gnome-themes split is not really artwork | 14:28 |
| seb128 | it's delta over debian | 14:28 |
| kwwii | honestly, the only things I push on people to change are things in which I have an email from Mark telling me to take care of it | 14:28 |
| seb128 | upstream themes we don't ship etc | 14:28 |
| kwwii | and I only do that if I cannot do it myself | 14:28 |
| pitti | (next topic) | 14:28 |
| seb128 | pitti: it'll make upstream angry, we will get complain and we have nothing to point about why that has been decided | 14:29 |
| pitti | seb128: that's for gnome-themes already, or for ubuntu-sounds? | 14:29 |
| seb128 | pitti: gnome-themes in my case | 14:29 |
| pitti | ok, seems the actual u-s topic is done | 14:29 |
| seb128 | I don't know about ubuntu-sounds | 14:29 |
| pitti | [TOPIC] Ken: gnome-themes cleanup | 14:29 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Ken: gnome-themes cleanup | 14:29 |
| kwwii | so, this is what seb128 wants to discuss :-) | 14:29 |
| pitti | kwwii: the themes you propose to remove, are they from upstream, or did we patch them in? | 14:30 |
| kwwii | pitti: they are from the upstream package | 14:30 |
| pitti | (Crux, Glider, etc) | 14:30 |
| pitti | so why should we remove them then? | 14:30 |
| kwwii | pitti: everything except the high-contrast* themes | 14:30 |
| pitti | Q1) why remove them in the first place? it's GNOME | 14:30 |
| kwwii | because they are "ugly" and outdated, basically | 14:30 |
| seb128 | pitti: because somebody think they don't look nice and clutter the themes lists | 14:31 |
| pitti | Q2) how can we make sure that we can DTRT on upgrades? | 14:31 |
| kwwii | the only ones that interest anyone is the accessability stuff | 14:31 |
| pitti | *shrug* de gustibus non disputandum est | 14:31 |
| seb128 | pitti: we discussed the upgrade previous week and that's no issue | 14:31 |
| mvo | I think seb128 has a point, upstream releations are very important, if that is a change that upsets them, that is not good | 14:31 |
| kwwii | pitti: the answer to the upgrade issue is to put all the themes we remove into another package and only install that on upgrades | 14:31 |
| pitti | seb128: if the theme files suddenly disappear, it'll fall back to hi-contrast? | 14:31 |
| seb128 | we need a gnome-themes dummy package depends on nice looking and not ubuntu shipped packages and install only nice looking | 14:31 |
| seb128 | so upgrades still have "not ubuntu shipped" | 14:32 |
| pitti | kwwii: that sounds like a lot of effort for no visible effect | 14:32 |
| seb128 | and new install have only "nice looking themes" | 14:32 |
| pitti | do they take so much space on CDs that we need to worry about them? | 14:32 |
| seb128 | no | 14:32 |
| pitti | Size: 272606 | 14:32 |
| kwwii | pitti: it cleans out the interface and removes cruft | 14:32 |
| pitti | (hardy) | 14:32 |
| kwwii | the size issue is not worth talking about :-) | 14:32 |
| seb128 | pitti: it just makes the themes lists be also empty | 14:33 |
| seb128 | almost | 14:33 |
| pitti | kwwii: apparently there were upstream discussions, if they are abandoned, would upstream remove them? | 14:33 |
| kwwii | pitti: afaik upstream will not change this package any time soon | 14:33 |
| seb128 | pitti: upstream did some cleaning some cycles ago, crux is used | 14:33 |
| pitti | if upstream says "we'll remove them in 2.26", I'd be okay with doing the change ahead of time, but why bother otherwise? | 14:33 |
| seb128 | they probably don't agree on the uglyness there | 14:34 |
| pitti | kwwii: is there actually a point for discussing this, or is that another sabdfl-ism? | 14:34 |
| kwwii | pitti: mianly because sabdfl told me to | 14:34 |
| kwwii | pitti: exactly :-) | 14:34 |
| pitti | hm, but it's a part of GNOME after all | 14:35 |
| kwwii | sure, and it is not like he won't listen to reason | 14:35 |
| seb128 | it's going to create package delta, angry upstream and users for no win | 14:35 |
| pitti | so, for the record, I don't agree to the approach, and I don't see why having some non-default themes available is a bad thing | 14:35 |
| kwwii | but then someone who knows the reasons should discuss it with him | 14:35 |
| seb128 | ok, let's take that out of the meeting | 14:35 |
| kwwii | ok | 14:35 |
| tedg | kwwii: Weren't you getting some push back on including the community themes? | 14:35 |
| kwwii | tedg: we do include the community themes now...not sure what you mean | 14:36 |
| kwwii | so we do have three new themes | 14:36 |
| tedg | kwwii: Oh, on the CDs? | 14:36 |
| kwwii | yes | 14:36 |
| tedg | And that's generally okay? | 14:36 |
| pitti | ok, I propose we continue the discussion on u-desktop@ as replies to Ken's mail | 14:36 |
| pitti | I'll start with it, and CC: Mark | 14:36 |
| kwwii | pitti: cool, thanks :-) | 14:36 |
| pitti | [ACTION] pitti and other desktop members to reply on gnome-themes issue on the ML, CC'ing Mark | 14:37 |
| MootBot | ACTION received: pitti and other desktop members to reply on gnome-themes issue on the ML, CC'ing Mark | 14:37 |
| pitti | [TOPIC] Martin: Discuss desktop related intrepid-targeted bugs | 14:38 |
| MootBot | New Topic: Martin: Discuss desktop related intrepid-targeted bugs | 14:38 |
| pitti | bug 261084 | 14:38 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 261084 in gnome-power-manager "Suspends again right after resume" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261084 | 14:38 |
| pitti | tedg: your PPA package seems to have improved the matters, but not completely fixed them apparently | 14:38 |
| pitti | tedg: do you have an estimate how common the remaining cases are? | 14:38 |
| pitti | and should it still be RC after your PPA fix?} | 14:39 |
| tedg | pitti: No, sorry I hadn't noticed that someone had said that they didn't work. (I'm behind on mail) | 14:39 |
| tedg | pitti: I'm trying to check to see if the power button fixes break Xubuntu (no new GNOME Session) before uploading them genericly. | 14:39 |
| pitti | tedg: ok, thanks; it's the only remaining unclear "Ted"ish bug on my list | 14:40 |
| pitti | tedg: thanks for making the meeting (in case you have to leave soon) | 14:40 |
| pitti | tedg: so that bug is still on track? or do you need help? | 14:40 |
| tedg | pitti: I think that it's generally on track, but I really think it is another "X changed the way they do keys" bugs, and we're kinda working around it by fixing it in GPM. | 14:41 |
| tedg | pitti: It goes with the X doesn't have a keyboard on boot (drives me crazy) and pommed no longer works. | 14:41 |
| * tedg is not impressed with the new X | 14:41 | |
| pitti | it causes all kinds of trouble, same with non-workign suspend/brighthness keys, etc., yes | 14:42 |
| pitti | does anyone feel attached to rarian? we have two bugs which look important (bug 256131 and bug 276878), they don't have an assignee | 14:42 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 256131 in docbook-xml "failed to upgrade : "update-xmlcatalog: error: entity already registered"" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/256131 | 14:43 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 276878 in rarian "better package relations for the upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/276878 | 14:43 |
| tedg | I think that the "no mouse or keyboard" on boot think should probably be elevated to a release blocker though. I don't think most users want to restart X on the command line before logging in. | 14:43 |
| pitti | ok, seems not; I just fixed my remaining intrepid bug, so I'll have a look at these two | 14:44 |
| seb128 | pitti: I don't think anybody is really looking at it in debian or ubuntu no | 14:44 |
| pitti | ok, next one is bug 212098 | 14:45 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 212098 in nautilus-share ""easy" file sharing not notifying about logout/login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/212098 | 14:45 |
| seb128 | pitti: ah, the second one is basically a "change GNOME depends on scrollkeeper to rarian-compat", I can do that when uploading GNOME 2.24.1 updates | 14:45 |
| mvo | maybe we can get help from someone from the plattform^Wfoundations team for rarian? assuming there is someone with spare cycles ... | 14:45 |
| pitti | seb128: oh, that easy? nice | 14:45 |
| seb128 | I've no clue about how the xml catalogs thing work but if somebody does that would be nice | 14:46 |
| pitti | seb128: ok, I assigned the second one to you, and I'll look into the first one | 14:46 |
| seb128 | we can ask on #ubuntu-devel | 14:46 |
| seb128 | pitti: ok thanks | 14:46 |
| pitti | just making sure that all the RC bugs have an assignee | 14:46 |
| pitti | and a plan | 14:46 |
| seb128 | the file sharing thing, I though mvo was looking to it for 8.04.1 but I guess that got an another ETOOMUCHTODO | 14:46 |
| pitti | is that actually still an issue? | 14:47 |
| seb128 | that should be easy enough | 14:47 |
| pitti | I guess it isn't for new installs | 14:47 |
| pitti | since we put the user into sambashare by default now | 14:47 |
| pitti | but for upgrades it is, right? | 14:47 |
| seb128 | it is | 14:47 |
| seb128 | samba is not installed by default | 14:47 |
| pitti | so it's just a matter of a better error message? | 14:47 |
| pitti | seb128: right, but that part is already handled, no? it presents a "install samba now" button | 14:47 |
| seb128 | you get samba installed when trying to use the feature for the first time | 14:48 |
| seb128 | right | 14:48 |
| seb128 | but after the install you need to restart the session | 14:48 |
| pitti | right | 14:48 |
| seb128 | because the group membership is not dynamic | 14:48 |
| pitti | so that just needs to be added to the dialog then? | 14:48 |
| seb128 | so that's still an issue for new installs | 14:48 |
| pitti | seb128: s/new installs/upgrades/ | 14:48 |
| pitti | well, s/&/existing users/ | 14:48 |
| seb128 | either to that dialog or display an another dialog after the installation | 14:48 |
| kwwii | much like the "restart required" notification | 14:49 |
| cjwatson | it's a problem for non-first users on new installs too | 14:49 |
| pitti | coudl the main sharing dialog just say so if samba is already installed, but the process doesn't have the group yet? | 14:49 |
| seb128 | cjwatson: it's a problem for first user too no? | 14:49 |
| cjwatson | seb128: not on new installs at the moment; the installer creates the sambashare group and adds the user to it | 14:49 |
| cjwatson | as a grotty workaround | 14:49 |
| seb128 | cjwatson: ah ok, I didn't know about that, I though that was the samba install doing that | 14:49 |
| cjwatson | I don't like it, I'd rather remove that in favour of something better | 14:49 |
| cjwatson | samba install does it too | 14:50 |
| cjwatson | but this is to avoid the "gotta restart the session" thing | 14:50 |
| pitti | so if we get the "restart your session" message right, we could even remove that again | 14:50 |
| seb128 | right, I though only samba was doing it, I didn't know about the workaround | 14:50 |
| seb128 | pitti: right | 14:50 |
| seb128 | people tend to not read the dialogs, so I think we should better display an another dialog after install | 14:50 |
| seb128 | rather than trying to put too much text in the first one that users will not read | 14:50 |
| pitti | right, agreed, I just looked at it | 14:51 |
| pitti | but if you try to enable the check box again, you could get a msgbox saying "you need to restart" [RESTART] [LATER] instead of the "install samba?" question | 14:51 |
| seb128 | that's a corner case but ideally right | 14:52 |
| seb128 | having the "you need to restart your session" after the samba install would already be nice | 14:52 |
| pitti | well, it's exactly what this bug is about, isn't it? | 14:52 |
| seb128 | the bug is about notifying the user that the feature will not working until next login | 14:53 |
| seb128 | s/not working/not be working | 14:53 |
| seb128 | anyway it should be easy enough, you can assign it to me, I'll have a look | 14:54 |
| pitti | seb128: do you know someone from the community who could be intersted in that? | 14:54 |
| seb128 | I'll try to see if some of the desktop contributors are wanting to give it a try other I'll look at it myself later | 14:54 |
| pitti | seb128: ok, thanks; please let me know if you don't find one and don't have time for it, then I'll try to look into it (I'd have to drop other stuff, though) | 14:55 |
| pitti | Riddell: I didn't see notable RC bugs for KDE, is it just working, or aren't they milestoned? | 14:55 |
| seb128 | pitti: ok | 14:55 |
| ScottK | pitti: I think Bug #279983 should count | 14:56 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 279983 in kdebluetooth "kblueplugd crashed with DBusException in call_blocking()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279983 | 14:56 |
| pitti | ScottK: right, that's for Riddell's complaint about bluez 0.4 breaking KDE? | 14:57 |
| ScottK | That's the one about kdebluetooth not working with the new bluetooth stack. | 14:57 |
| ScottK | Yes. | 14:57 |
| pitti | hm, too bad that this didn't come up with Mario's test packages | 14:57 |
| pitti | marked for Intrepid now | 14:58 |
| ScottK | I guess leave the autopsy for another discussion. | 14:58 |
| pitti | ok | 14:58 |
| pitti | [TOPIC] sponsoring queue | 14:58 |
| MootBot | New Topic: sponsoring queue | 14:58 |
| pitti | http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ | 14:58 |
| MootBot | LINK received: http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ | 14:58 |
| pitti | has some desktopish stuff | 14:58 |
| pitti | I won't go over it in detail right now, but a reminder: | 14:58 |
| ScottK | pitti: I do think we ought to discuss what to do about the problem though. | 14:58 |
| Riddell | https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/278634 is the other one, rosetta being frustratingly slow this cycle | 14:59 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 278634 in ubiquity "[Intrepid Beta] KDE does not use the language selected during install" [Critical,Confirmed] | 14:59 |
| pitti | please remember to note your sponsored uploads in the activity report, I didn't see it from anyone | 14:59 |
| pitti | and have a look at the queue, e. g. there is a gtk patch for an RC bug | 14:59 |
| seb128 | ups | 14:59 |
| pitti | Riddell: tell me about it, this drives me mad | 14:59 |
| seb128 | pitti: this bug is assigned to ArneGoetje and I've no clue about it | 15:00 |
| pitti | Riddell: but that's definitively something I'm watching and discussing, too | 15:00 |
| seb128 | pitti: my call would be to "have upstream to comment on it first" but ArneGoetje might have a clue | 15:00 |
| pitti | seb128: it was just an example, nothing particularly towards you | 15:00 |
| pitti | seb128: yeah, sounds good | 15:00 |
| pitti | he should at least be able to test it | 15:00 |
| pitti | ok, those bugs covered the "release status" topic, too | 15:01 |
| pitti | we're out of time | 15:01 |
| pitti | ScottK: does superm1 know about the KDE regression? | 15:01 |
| ScottK | pitti: He does. | 15:01 |
| pitti | he worked a lot with the packages recently | 15:01 |
| ScottK | My impression was he pretty well shrugged. | 15:01 |
| pitti | hmm | 15:02 |
| seb128 | I don't think anything went especially wrong there | 15:02 |
| ScottK | The Kubuntu dev who's mostly looked into bluetooth (Tonio) is mostly MIA at present. | 15:02 |
| seb128 | it's just a lack of manpower issue | 15:02 |
| persia | It's more about needing upstream to do something. None of the few people hacking the bluetooth stack now understand kdebluetooth | 15:02 |
| pitti | http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18310466/Traceback.txt looks like an API change | 15:02 |
| MootBot | LINK received: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18310466/Traceback.txt looks like an API change | 15:02 |
| seb128 | we can't block ubuntu in a broken state because nobody tests other desktop variants | 15:02 |
| ScottK | seb128: There's nothing especially wrong with breaking Kubuntu just before release? | 15:02 |
| Riddell | persia: it would be better not to do major foundation changes after beta | 15:03 |
| seb128 | nobody broken kubuntu just for the fun of break it | 15:03 |
| seb128 | the work was to have a decent stack for ubuntu intrepid | 15:03 |
| persia | Riddell, Agreed. In this case the alternative was bluetooth not working for anyone. | 15:03 |
| ScottK | Yes, but testing late major upgrades should be comprehensive. | 15:03 |
| ScottK | persia: It was working for me before and it's not now. | 15:04 |
| seb128 | having ubuntu broken just in case a derivative would break is not a solution eithjer | 15:04 |
| seb128 | well, they did things correctly, used a ppa, had a bug for testing feedback etc | 15:04 |
| persia | ScottK, Ah. Nobody said that to any of the bluetooth upgrade discussions I saw. | 15:04 |
| seb128 | they didn't land everything to intrepid directly without testing | 15:04 |
| Riddell | clearly they did | 15:04 |
| seb128 | Riddell: they did what? | 15:05 |
| ScottK | seb128: Not without testing, but without sufficient testing. | 15:05 |
| pitti | hm, I don't even have a org.bluez.Manager on either the system or session bus | 15:05 |
| seb128 | ScottK: somebody in the kubuntu community could have tested | 15:05 |
| ScottK | seb128: Yes and it was on my TODO. No one said that it was about to be uploaded. | 15:06 |
| pitti | anyway, little point in debating blame here now (I'm fine with discussing this further in #u-devel, particularly resolutions) | 15:06 |
| pitti | is there anything else anyone has for the meeting? | 15:06 |
| seb128 | ScottK: better to upload sooner than later | 15:06 |
| ScottK | seb128: Then just skip all the testing and upload straight to Intrepid. | 15:06 |
| * persia notices the complete lack of response to the call for testing on kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com | 15:07 | |
| seb128 | ScottK: they did test it correctly on ubuntu, I disagree on the lack of testing | 15:07 |
| * ScottK moves to #ubuntu-devel as pitti asked. | 15:07 | |
| seb128 | the manpower is limited and it's not always possible to test all the environment you don't use | 15:07 |
| pitti | ok, then thanks everyone, let's close the official meeting bit | 15:08 |
| pitti | #endmeeting | 15:08 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 09:08. | 15:08 |
| seb128 | pitti: thanks | 15:08 |
| seb128 | pitti: the bot is on a weird timezone ;-) | 15:09 |
| persia | OK. Who's here for the Java meeting? | 15:10 |
| persia | slytherin, Koon, robilad, doko ? | 15:10 |
| persia | Anyone else? | 15:10 |
| Koon | o/ | 15:10 |
| doko | sorry, will be away in 15min | 15:11 |
| persia | doko, OK. Anything you want to announce quickly before you go? | 15:11 |
| doko | no | 15:11 |
| persia | OK. | 15:12 |
| persia | So Meeting Agenda is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting | 15:12 |
| slytherin | I have a bug for which I need discussion with doko | 15:12 |
| persia | slytherin, Then go now, and we'll do roadmap later, as there's nothing else on the agenda this week. | 15:12 |
| doko | just one? | 15:12 |
| slytherin | doko: Specifically one, bug #255149. The fix is small but I wanted to discuss before I submit debdiff. | 15:13 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 255149 in openjdk-6 "javascript script support through rhino should not be on bootclasspath" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/255149 | 15:13 |
| doko | well, the openoffice.org build now succeeds. what else will break? | 15:14 |
| slytherin | doko: The problem is that users are not able to use external versions of rhino. | 15:14 |
| slytherin | where as it can be used with Sun JDK because the symlink is not present there. | 15:15 |
| doko | right, do you have a fix, e.g. getting it loaded with a class loader when needed? | 15:18 |
| slytherin | No. But I will first try what is working for others i.e. removing symlink. And then I will also do some more testing to make sure there are no regressions. | 15:20 |
| persia | I think I'd prefer to keep the symlink as a workaround until a proper class loader can deal with it, as trying to track down Oo.o build issues is *extremely* time consuming. | 15:21 |
| slytherin | persia: OOo build issues has been fixed already with a workaround. We now need to fix other problems caused by this bug. | 15:21 |
| doko | so if anybody wants to work on the class loader issue, please go ahead. this maybe is annoying for a developer, but I don't want to "fix" it by removing the symlink before the release | 15:22 |
| persia | Oh, a different workaround. I misunderstood then. | 15:22 |
| doko | slytherin: did you forward the report to icedtea? | 15:22 |
| slytherin | doko: No. The feedback from users was received a just few days ago. | 15:23 |
| slytherin | I will do that today. | 15:23 |
| persia | And we're running against the 15 minute boundary, so on to the RoadMap. | 15:24 |
| slytherin | sure | 15:24 |
| persia | robilad isn't here today, so slytherin: you're first. I think we're just wating on ubuntu-archive for the rest of MoveToUniverse for Intrepid, right? | 15:25 |
| slytherin | yes. I tried more than once to get attention on #ubuntu-devel, but that hasn't helped. | 15:25 |
| persia | As long as everything is ACK'd, and waiting in queue, we're in about as good shape as we're likely to get. Don't worry about it too much. | 15:26 |
| slytherin | persia: I am worrying because libxstream-java is still in multiverse and its reverse-build-depends have entered in universe. | 15:27 |
| persia | The relevant bug has that information added as a comment? | 15:27 |
| slytherin | No. | 15:28 |
| persia | That's probably the best thing to do then : it will mail the archive admins about it, and maybe raise the priority. | 15:28 |
| persia | Anything else of note for MoveToUniverse? | 15:29 |
| doko | ok, I'm away | 15:29 |
| slytherin | no | 15:29 |
| persia | Have a good afternoon doko | 15:29 |
| persia | OK. Koon: did you get everything you needed registered for the maven spec? | 15:29 |
| Koon | yes, I think doko accepted to review it, so now it's waiting for review/approval | 15:30 |
| Koon | I also welcome other team member reviews while there is still time | 15:31 |
| persia | I'm happy with it, to the extent I understand it. It seems a lot easier than the other models presented. | 15:31 |
| persia | It just needs mvn-packaging for some makefile snippets to ease work for the maintainers. | 15:32 |
| Koon | yes, and a good working example :) | 15:32 |
| persia | Now, for implementation, I think you needed a bunch of extra hands for packaging. Do you want to schedule a session at OpenWeek to lead people through packaging something with Ant to help get through the first block of packages? | 15:33 |
| persia | (Level 0) | 15:33 |
| Koon | when is it ? | 15:34 |
| persia | It's usually the first or second week after release, so early November. I haven't seen an announcement yet. | 15:34 |
| Koon | I've a team sprint around that time. If I can make it, I will. | 15:35 |
| Koon | Will confirm whenever we have the OpenWeel announcement | 15:35 |
| Koon | otherwise I'll do a wikipage explaining how to do it | 15:35 |
| persia | OK. If your schedule won't allow it, let's try to get someone else to lead a session, as I think we need three or four packagers to get this in good shape. | 15:36 |
| Koon | persia: we'll decide what route to take when we have the timing for OpenWeek | 15:39 |
| persia | Koon, Sounds good. | 15:39 |
| Koon | I'll check if it's as easy as I suspect it is | 15:40 |
| persia | Anything else for maven? | 15:40 |
| Koon | nope | 15:40 |
| persia | OK. Any other topics anyone wants to raise? | 15:40 |
| slytherin | nothing form my side | 15:40 |
| Koon | nothing here | 15:40 |
| persia | OK. Have a good week. | 15:41 |
| Koon | thanks persia | 15:41 |
| slytherin | bye. | 15:43 |
| === persia_ is now known as persia | ||
| === ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 10 Oct 17:00: Ubuntu Arabic | 14 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 14 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 15 Oct 12:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | ||
| === beuno is now known as beuno-lunch | ||
| === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach | ||
| === beuno-lunch is now known as beuno | ||
| === nxvl_ is now known as nxvl | ||
| jjesse | @time sydney | 21:16 |
| ubottu | Current time in Australia/Sydney: October 10 2008, 07:16:21 - Next meeting: Ubuntu Arabic in 20 hours 43 minutes | 21:16 |
| * Eluxzen is away: Away | 22:04 | |
| === ompaul_ is now known as ompaul | ||
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