=== Rafik_ is now known as Rafik === asac_ is now known as asac [13:00] OK mobile meeting is about to start [13:01] #startmeeting [13:01] Meeting started at 07:01. The chair is lool. [13:01] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [13:01] Roll call \o/ [13:01] thanks lool [13:01] Yay! [13:01] #topic roll call [13:01] Made it, sir! [13:01] * cgregan waves [13:01] [topic] roll call [13:01] New Topic: roll call [13:01] * davidm thinks he is alive, but is not sure. [13:01] cgregan, StevenK, persia, amitk, davidm, ogra, lool [13:01] * lool waves [13:02] * ogra waves [13:02] * StevenK waves [13:02] * davidm Waves [13:02] [13:02] looking at last week's actions [13:03] none? [13:03] is "# [13:03] cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO) " [13:03] still an action? [13:03] [topic] cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO) [13:03] New Topic: cgregan had an action to compare & contract F-Spot and GThumb (CO) [13:03] cgregan: woot [13:03] lool: I have compared [13:03] Gthumb is a bit less resource hungry [13:03] cgregan: Cool, did you write down a summary in a wiki page or email? [13:04] otherwise, fine to do it here [13:04] lool: That I still need to do [13:04] cgregan: mpt did a nice empathy/pidgin comparison for the ubuntu desktop's im client [13:04] on wiki.ubuntu.com [13:04] yes [13:04] I have seen that [13:04] I don't think we need that much detail : I just want some sort of photo viewer in the seed. [13:04] it may be a bit intense for my bandwidth right now [13:04] Would be nice to have some much shorter one here as well [13:05] I will put together an email [13:05] I just wanted to mention this review because it's very complete, so can be inspirational for yours [13:05] But I don't expect the same level of completeness; he spent a long time on it [13:05] YEs [13:05] And we already seeded gthumb [13:05] :-) [13:05] cgregan: So your recommendation is gthumb? [13:05] Thank $DEITY we agree! [13:06] cgregan: Did you try importing photos from a camera or the like? [13:06] Well....glad I liked it better then! :-) [13:06] cgregan, Well we could have changed it if your findings differed [13:06] lool: I did....but only had one camera [13:06] [agreed] prefer gthumb over f-spot [13:06] AGREED received: prefer gthumb over f-spot [13:07] cgregan: I'd love to have some URL to which I can point people for the choice of photo software, so a wiki page or email to public list is nice; this IRC meeting log could do otherwise [13:07] Anything else to discuss on this topic? moving on? [13:07] I can put up a wiki. [13:07] perfect thanks [13:07] [topic] StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability [13:07] New Topic: StevenK to write spec(s) to have choice of launchers/extend launcher for theme ability [13:08] They're both done [13:08] StevenK: (muahah) [13:08] You even have the links to them [13:08] I do? [13:08] I thought I mailed them to you [13:08] Which is the correct agenda? I'm looking at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20081009 but it doesn't seem to match. [13:08] you did! [13:08] Hah! [13:09] [link] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-boot-menu [13:09] LINK received: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-boot-menu [13:09] persia, I just fixed pages [13:09] [link] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-launcher [13:09] LINK received: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mobile/+spec/mid-jaunty-launcher [13:09] will fix them again post this meeting so they don't go a week out of date my bad [13:09] Moving to current items for this week [13:09] [topic] status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc. (davidm) [13:09] New Topic: status of intrepid tasks: merge of ppa, installer, images etc. (davidm) [13:10] I think the only relevant thing on that list is the installer [13:10] images are done, but currently broken [13:10] AFAIK, three major things are installation of MID images and linux-restricted-lpia as well as madwifi/ath5k on Q1U [13:10] StevenK: You fixed lrm-lpia or are about to complete? [13:10] StevenK: Or will this complete tomorrow? [13:10] Which works except that lpia thinks it uses i686 CPUs for some reason, which we're working around. [13:10] the latter is something amitk works on atm [13:10] Need confirmation, waiting for Soyuz [13:11] StevenK: Can we expect them tonight still, or tomorrow? [13:11] lool: "Dealing with" is the current status [13:11] StevenK: Ok; so lpia-lrm in progress [13:11] this should fix the images [13:11] I suspect I'm also fixing the installer, due to fiddling with the seeds [13:11] then mid might or might not install, might be using wrong kernel? [13:11] or no kenrel? [13:11] You're working around the remaining installer bug, which will be fixed properly in ubiquity 1.10.5 [13:12] The former [13:12] so I'm aware of grub missing from the images [13:12] then 686 being used instead of lpia for kernel flavor (IIUC) [13:12] and the mid image failing to build due to lpia-lrm not being installable [13:12] lool, No. lpia uses lpia kernel flavour. dpkg-architecture thinks it's i686 [13:12] anything else on the lpia/mid images? [13:13] persia: Thinks that the CPU is i686? that's fine [13:13] DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU=i686 is correct [13:13] Is it? [13:13] What's the problem you're seeing? [13:14] failure of DEB_HOST_ARCH_CPU to meaningfully match DEB_HOST_ARCH [13:14] Specifically, for multiple arches to have the same CPU values. [13:14] It broke the mapping, which is why we don't have grub today (which we're working around). it's not worth fixing, but it's certainly confusing. [13:15] ah actually it might not be [13:15] In fact you don't want to use ARCH_CPU [13:15] No? [13:15] Ok, what's using ARCH_CPU? [13:15] ubiquity uses it to determine which is the correct bootloader [13:15] For upstream software, we should check GNU_CPU [13:16] No, this is just debian/rules + debian/control [13:16] the difference between _ARCH and _ARCH_CPU is that one has the kernel when it's not linux [13:16] For instance on kfreebsd-i386 and -amd64, they differ; otherwise they should be the same [13:16] Right, which is required for kfreebsd, etc. in Debian. [13:16] So I guess you're correct that i686 is the wrong value [13:16] (I thought we were discussing the other _CPU which should be i686) [13:16] It's at least a confusing value. Fixing it would be exceedingly painful. [13:17] Yeah [13:17] I don't see us changing that at this point [13:17] So let's go with an _ARCH check? [13:17] That's the consensus. [13:17] ubiquity has a workaround committed, and the seeds have a workaround committed waiting for the ubiquity workaround upload. [13:17] Ok; so this ubiquity issue is understood and pending an upload to workaround it [13:18] ogra: what's today's status on ath5k/madwifi? [13:18] amit wanted to start working on it today [13:18] i didnt hear anything back from rtg beyond that he will pull in a LBM package into intrepid-updates [13:19] Ok, so someone is working on it [13:19] which doesnt help us for release [13:19] amit offered adding a pci quirk to blacklist the module on Q1 [13:19] The seeds are commited. [13:19] ogra: sounds good [13:19] which i think is our best option [13:19] I'm not sure if I pushed, and I'm in the middle of ./update [13:19] ogra: Let's go with this; can I [action] you to push a fix before next week? [13:19] * StevenK stops looking for his seed checkout on cocoplum [13:20] If the PCI quirk can't be done, we will resort to some blacklist sadly [13:20] so waiting for feedback from amit on the quirk a,d then waiting for rtg for the backported 2.6.28 modules [13:20] sure [13:20] yeah [13:20] [action] ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi [13:20] blecklist would be the most trivial then [13:20] ACTION received: ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi [13:20] *black [13:21] persia: Concerning ubiquity, can I assign you to make sure lpia installs (even from a bzr ubiquity)? [13:21] s#lpia#lpia/mid [13:21] lool, OK. It installs today, as long as you put grub in filesystem.squashfs before you try. [13:21] ogra: Please only consider blacklist as last resort -- as discussed already [13:21] indeed [13:21] persia: I want to make sure we land an installable image asap [13:21] Hm. No push, since it's a bound branch, duh. [13:22] persia: so with the grub seed fixes and bzr ubiquity it works from top to bottom? [13:22] lool: mobile-meta will be uploaded shortly [13:22] just wanted to point out thats a one upload thing [13:22] lool: *or* [13:22] lool, It should. I'll let you know in ~10 hours. [13:22] ogra: Ok, indeed [13:22] With the grub seed fixes *or* bzr ubiquity it works [13:22] persia: Thanks; mind if I action to revisit this next week? [13:22] No. [13:22] Ah [13:22] Okay [13:23] [action] persia to make sure lpia/mid installs with trunk versions of seeds and ubiquty [13:23] ACTION received: persia to make sure lpia/mid installs with trunk versions of seeds and ubiquty [13:23] StevenK: can I action you for fixing lrm-lpia installability? [13:23] Well, I'll actually make sure the dailies install :) [13:23] OMG it's action day [13:23] Chasing trunk is *hard* [13:23] lool: You can, but I've likely already done it [13:24] [action] StevenK to make sure lpia-lrm reaches archive and is installable [13:24] ACTION received: StevenK to make sure lpia-lrm reaches archive and is installable [13:24] StevenK: Things are too easy for you [13:24] Oh, are they? [13:24] StevenK: i'll need to action you with harder stuff! [13:24] 120 pushups ? [13:24] I used to be able to do that :-( [13:24] It's a matter of practice [13:25] * ogra was never in his life in the three digit area ... [13:25] [topic] amitk - kernel issues [13:25] New Topic: amitk - kernel issues [13:25] is he here ? [13:25] who put that topic? was it amitk himself? [13:25] he isn't around to comment sadly [13:25] I poked him to join [13:25] i think that was david [13:26] davidm: What were your discussion topics? linux/linux-lpia merging? [13:26] [action] carry over: amitk - kernel issues (davidm) [13:26] ACTION received: carry over: amitk - kernel issues (davidm) [13:26] [topic] StevenK's status [13:26] New Topic: StevenK's status [13:27] StevenK: How is it going? [13:27] I added amitk kernel issues in case there were any [13:27] (agenda is a bit werid TBH) [13:27] Dealing with Kourou, which is uploaded, LRM, now seeds [13:27] but kernel team is busy this week [13:27] davidm: We'll revisit at end of meeting if he comes up, otherwise next week [13:27] yes [13:28] Oh, and Soyuz bugs [13:28] Eh [13:28] Ok; StevenK: any blocker? [13:28] Sleep [13:28] [topic] Installation of language packs and network access at install time (EmmetHikory) [13:28] New Topic: Installation of language packs and network access at install time (EmmetHikory) [13:28] But that is painful to fix [13:29] persia: woot [13:29] Those were last week. [13:29] StevenK, thats a post release action :) [13:29] Hah [13:29] This week I want to talk about bug #280014. It's in progress, and ought be sorted tomorrow. [13:29] Launchpad bug 280014 in ubiquity "Cannot install with a blank password" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280014 [13:30] Once that's done, and in the images, I'll want to push a change to casper to put ubuntu-mid installation into --automatic mode, and it should be clean. [13:30] persia: sorry, they are lsited in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2008/20081009 [13:30] persia: cjwatson disagreed with the change, from what I saw [13:30] [topic] installation with blank password [13:30] New Topic: installation with blank password [13:31] StevenK, The disagreement was with the implementation, as the way I did it broke the UI. I'm working on an alternate implementation that doesn't do that. [13:31] persia: so status is that you made the debconf additions to have a flag to allow this and this needs uploads? [13:31] Essentially, I first just ignored blank passwords, but the user then presses next and gets an error. [13:31] persia: Ah, okay [13:31] ok, pending a bug fix [13:31] I need to check the preseed values in the ubiquity frontend, and use that to determine whether to allow the user to proceed. [13:32] lool, The debconf changes and d-i stuff is complete. I'm just working on the ubiquity front-ends. [13:32] persia: I guess I can also skip "Switching to ISO9660 images instead of USB images" then? [13:33] Yeah, last week we determined that we weren't doing that. I believe I was supposed to start a spec about it, but I didn't start it yet. [13:33] It's gone [13:33] thanks [13:33] persia: any blocker? [13:33] persia: anything else you're working on? [13:34] No real blockers. I'm looking forward to the landing of the install-from-USB fixes underway, but not actively involved. I've been looking at the lpia desktop alternate CD installer, which still has some issues, but I don't consider that intrepid-critical. [13:34] [action] persia to write spec on providing iso images or vm support or how to write mobile images for end users [13:34] ACTION received: persia to write spec on providing iso images or vm support or how to write mobile images for end users [13:35] [topic] lool status [13:35] New Topic: lool status [13:35] What? I'm not going to do that. [13:35] what ? [13:35] status is currently here, chairing your meeting [13:35] why is that ? [13:35] I'll write release notes if the problem can't be fixed. [13:35] * ogra thought we were over the iso stuff [13:36] * persia too [13:36] persia: "I believe I was supposed to write a spec about it", davidm proposed that I action you on it [13:36] jaunty wont need it because the nstaler will be fixed [13:36] I thought we were done as well, but perhaps you wanted to spec something for intrepid [13:36] err jaunty [13:36] OK. That makes more sense. Sure, I'll write a spec for Jaunty. [13:36] Ok; so we'll drop the action from wiki or dismiss next week :) [13:36] and your mini iso will fix it for intrepid [13:36] Seed changes uploaded [13:36] ok [13:37] back to my status, I've been helping around with misc issues as usual lately; nothing blocking to report [13:37] I'm playing with jax10 hardware [13:37] * ogra wants ... [13:38] [topic] ogra's /proc/self/status [13:38] New Topic: ogra's /proc/self/status [13:38] all fine, chasing some general intepid bugs that also affect mobile [13:38] ogra: So, how is it going? [13:38] good [13:38] ogra: blocked on anything? anything intrepid critical you'd like to mention? [13:38] i.e. the compiz doesnt allow dpms one [13:39] only that i still have a bunch of .fdi file changes to make for touchscreens [13:39] i found a proper successor for ltsp [13:39] eh [13:39] stgraber will take that over from em [13:39] *me [13:39] so i can do ltsp upstream but got the packaging off my back [13:40] i.e. everything that pust duties on me with ltsp is gone [13:40] Good news [13:40] yeah [13:40] Ok, moving on [13:40] will give me more free time in jaunty [13:40] [topic] special guest cgregan's status [13:40] New Topic: special guest cgregan's status [13:40] :-) [13:40] cgregan: would you like to mention anything intrepid related or blocking :) [13:40] oh, and i wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting [13:40] or anything relevantr eally [13:40] [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting [13:40] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Mobile/HowTo/ImageWriting [13:41] Worked on a new landing page for the cases yesterday [13:41] Since we now have mobile and MID versions [13:41] it seemed like a good idea [13:41] * ogra needs to go over that one [13:41] the text is a bit confusing ... [13:41] Also....reviewing some potential testers for this team [13:42] ogra: the text on the landing page? [13:42] (note mobile is not centric on netbooks, but on UMPCs) [13:42] i.e. focused on touchscreen use [13:42] it's also ok with netbooks :) [13:42] Mobile or MID? [13:42] right [13:42] mobile [13:42] then MID is? [13:42] MID is MID and UMPC :) [13:43] hehe [13:43] For MIDs. Currently only the Aigo or the D4, but could be more. [13:43] mobile is UMPC and netbooks and MID :) [13:43] you can very well use mobile on netbooks but mobile *is* for UMPCs without keyboards [13:43] ok....as long as it is not confusing! :-) [13:43] and Ubuntu Desktop is desktops laptops mids umpc netbooks [13:43] Mobile works *great* with a keyboard. [13:43] sure [13:43] Server is servers desktops laptops netbooks umpcs and mids [13:43] No. -desktop doesn't work very well for MIDs (I've tried). [13:43] but the mobile UI was designed with touchscreen in mind [13:44] ogra, Sure, but it also works the other way. Be inclusive :) [13:44] Ok....so we need to clarify what we are building these for.....and update the wiki [13:44] persia: It works better than minimal in my experience [13:44] lool, I guess, but there are better options. [13:44] persia, currently the test case says mobile is the version we designed for netbooks [13:45] cgregan: So in general you're calling for contributions to the QA test cases? [13:45] Hrm. That's not very inclusive. [13:45] I also saw davmor2 work on them [13:45] lool: Yes....and this clarification [13:45] I have been pulling UNR cases over to cover mobile....since the former mobile cases are now MID [13:45] ogra: Well it's better suited for netbooks than desktop still :-) but it shouldn't restrict to netbooks [13:45] But I have a feeling there are inaccuracies [13:45] right [13:46] cgregan: I think we need to clarify this for everybody's sake [13:46] lool: yes [13:46] cgregan, If you have some time, I'd be happy to discuss in #ubuntu-mobile after the meeting. [13:46] lool, i had a bunch of complaints from umpcportal users that wanted to see UMPC mentioned ... [13:46] The way I see it, everything will work more or less on netbooks, mids, and umpcs, but the experience is really different [13:47] so i like to advertise mobile as designed for touchscreen driven UMPCs but also usable on netbooks atm [13:47] * persia points at the clock, and suggests further discussion after the meeting. [13:47] persia: More calls after this, but perhaps a little later, or in your morning [13:47] cgregan, OK. [13:47] * lool welcomes persia's pointer to the clock [13:47] That's it for me [13:47] Thanks Chris [13:47] It seems on topic to mention a new position at Canonical *cough* [13:48] [topic] new QA position at Canonical [13:48] New Topic: new QA position at Canonical [13:48] We are looking for someone with a commercial background [13:48] yes...looking over some candidate info today [13:48] For people reading this, there's a job opening in the mobile team at Canonical [13:48] http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_MIDQA/ [13:48] LINK received: http://webapps.ubuntu.com/employment/canonical_MIDQA/ [13:48] Ok; that should get the attention of people reading the minutes [13:48] Moving to davidm's stauts [13:48] Yep, thanks [13:49] [topic] davidm's status [13:49] New Topic: davidm's status [13:49] I've been in meetings and paperwork all week [13:49] coffeed or not coffeed is the question [13:49] heh [13:49] the QA position was one output [13:49] Being in paperwork sounds uncomfortable [13:49] the other is a bit of a focus change [13:50] Once we clear the intrepid critical bugs we should have a look at the rest of the intrepid bug list [13:50] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs [13:50] And see where we might be able to help a bit. [13:51] So fix intrepid critical bugs and then help the other teams with their intrepid critical bugs :-) [13:51] Ok; davidm are you blocked on anything where you could be helped by the team? [13:51] and anything else intrepid critical which yuo'd like to mention? [13:51] davidm, mobile is affected by most of the desktop things there anyway [13:52] No, I'm not blocked, and I appreciate your suggestion last week of a rotating secretary within the team [13:52] that will help me a great deal [13:52] thanks for all of the output last week [13:52] So I've picked up October and will call for a November secretary again as we near up [13:52] Once we have images again that install I'm happy to help were ever we can. [13:52] Any other topic? [13:53] not from me. [13:53] We need to fill up the last 8 minutes, I can't let people wander off freely before the end of the hour [13:53] hi [13:53] You can't?! [13:53] You monster! [13:53] Well you're under my responsability [13:53] heh [13:53] What if you're hit by a truck? [13:53] Is there anyone else who wants to raise anything? [13:53] Ok; thanks everybody for attending [13:53] #endmeeting [13:53] Meeting finished at 07:53. [13:54] thanks [13:54] * lool waves to desktop team [13:56] hi [14:00] hey everyone [14:00] desktop team ready? [14:00] seb128, Riddell, kwwii, mvo, Keybuk ? [14:01] hey pitti [14:01] (well mvo-ish) [14:02] pitti: I am here :-) [14:03] hi pitti [14:03] hello [14:03] I'm still part of the team until the 20th, then I move to foundations :) [14:03] ok, Keybuk might still be recovering [14:03] mvo: oh, good to know [14:03] #startmeeting [14:04] Meeting started at 08:04. The chair is pitti. [14:04] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [14:04] [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-09 [14:04] LINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-09 [14:04] today's meeting template [14:04] I didn't see any explicit agenda items, did I miss any? [14:05] I saw the langpack and bluez problems from Riddell, and I plan to go through some RC bugs [14:05] tedg: here by chance? some questions involve you, too [14:05] pitti: I just want to make sure that the gnome-themes stuff gets done as well as reverting ubuntu-sounds [14:06] let's add that to the topic [14:06] pitti: Yes, for a little while. The conference picks up in an hour, and I have to walk over (no IRC there) [14:06] tedg: great, thanks [14:06] [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting [14:06] New Topic: Outstanding actions from last meeting [14:06] seb128 to propose three options for bug 274146 [14:07] Launchpad bug 274146 in gnome-session "Has not yet replaced the existing log out applet" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274146 [14:07] that has happened (thanks) [14:07] done [14:07] however, we didn't really get closer to a decision [14:07] extra suggestions followed and discussion [14:07] and the bug stalled since [14:07] or, rather, we seem to have several different personal preferences, but it's a bit unclear who is to decide [14:08] it's rather than we are getting late, some options are not changes you want to land one week before intrepid [14:08] tedg: I left some questions to your latest reply, wrt. going back to hardy with the updated gconf setup, is that actually possible? or is it an one-way thing? [14:08] ie changing user datas would require testing [14:08] seb128: what's your preference, BTW? [14:09] pitti: It should be okay. As then the panel will drop the new FUSA applet and pick up the old one. It won't rewrite it's config, we'd only be appending. [14:09]