lfaraonewgrant: well, we don't have the source file, so we don't know. it'll probabbly be a few kb less00:00
slangaseker, what exactly is the plan of action here?  You want to re-encode using a source format that's not available?00:03
lfaraoneslangasek: well, we're wondering if it's recorded anywhere where the file came from.00:03
slangasekthe copyright file states it came from http://librivox.org/00:04
asacScottK: unlikely that the regression window really is the latest upload. at least if its a knetworkmanager specific issue00:04
asacScottK: read: no dbus api changes in the last upload00:05
lfaraoneslangasek: ah, we got it, it's on archive.org00:05
asacScottK: do you use a "hybrid" setup, e.g. one connection managed by ifup/ifdown and the wireless with NM?00:05
brycemdz, I've sorted out why the OCD doesn't display - it's a bug in gnome-power-manager02:26
brycehmm, no mdz02:26
brycecjwatson: so mdz's bug is a combination of two bugs - one is a thinkpad t61 kernel bug, that it's not propagating numlock key changes up properly (verified this with whot upstream), the other bug is local to gnome-power-manager where it's not bothering to grab keys with modifiers (it's grabbing with modmap=0 instead of modmap=AnyModifier)02:28
=== LucidFox_ is now known as LucidFox
mathiazslangasek: is there a reason why /var/lib/samba is created in the samba package rather than the samba-common package?02:44
mathiazslangasek: it seems that libpam_smbpass segfaults if /var/lib/samba doesn't exists - see bug 26068702:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 260687 in samba "Purging samba breaks login (pam_smbpass.so segfaults)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26068702:44
=== mathiaz_ is now known as mathiaz
slangasekmathiaz: it's a bug that was overlooked until recently; feel free to fix it04:36
* StevenK uploads most of the remaining libbluetooth2 transistion04:36
StevenKsuperm1: ^04:37
slangasekTheMuso: "812KB" - yeah, we don't have that to spare, please solve this another way for intrepid04:40
NCommanderStevenK, how much is left on that transition04:44
StevenKNCommander: Um. Let me answer that after these process and the publisher finishes, roughly sixty minutes04:48
calci sliced the end of my finger with a serated bread knife, oops :(04:52
calcthat'll teach me not to stick my fingers where i can't see what is there04:52
NCommanderScottK, I'm attacking openexr04:52
NCommanderNo promises though, this is an ugly test failure04:52
calcthere was a knife stuck between boxes stacked in my garage, tried to pick up box and ouch04:53
StevenKcalc: You okay?04:53
calcStevenK: yea it wasn't deep so i just cleaned it well, makes it a little harder to type without using that finger04:53
calci'm starting to get the hang of it, heh :)04:54
calci thought i had cut myself on the cardboard until i looked under the box, lol04:55
=== ZhengZhi is now known as Zane
NCommanderlamont, ping?05:45
StevenKYou know it's nearly midnight, right?05:48
NCommanderStevenK, not really05:52
NCommanderStevenK, time is relative afterall05:52
* StevenK teaches NCommander about "time zones"05:52
NCommanderas I said, time is relative ;-)05:53
NCommanderAnd there is only one true timezone and UTC is its name05:53
realistNCommander: some astronomers may disagree with you.05:57
NCommander*on earth05:57
NCommanderOn Mars, UMT rules, and sols define the days ;-)05:57
NCommanderScottK, I did some initial debugging on openexr; the main issue seems to be a race issue in glibc (it appears to me that some of the pthread() functions aren't working appropriately). I'm running the test suite on glibc as we speak. If you need this package uploaded, and you don't care about it supporting threads (due to the borked glibc), I can give you a patch to prevent it from calling make check on HPPA05:57
=== tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter
StevenKNCommander, superm1: The last two libbluetooth2 transistion packages are libpam-blue and ussp-push07:14
StevenKNCommander: If you prepare an upload to Intrepid proper, I'll sponsor it.07:14
* NCommander does that07:14
StevenKNCommander: Just libpam-blue, since you fixed it, you deserve the upload for it07:15
NCommanderStevenK, http://pastebin.ca/122435407:16
NCommanderStevenK, I haven't test built it yet (not on my intrepid box)07:16
NCommanderCare to do that for me?07:16
NCommanderANd yes, its a big diff just because the upstream inlined ****loads of unneeded crap that had to go07:16
StevenKThat's nasty07:18
NCommanderWell, if upstream is willing to inline autotools changes ...07:18
StevenKI'd prefer you update the date of the changelog, but *shrug*07:18
StevenKNCommander: libpam-blue uploaded07:41
NCommander\o\ /o/ \o/ <o> >o<!07:45
pittiGood morning07:48
StevenKpitti: I have belted the NBS list down to 7 affected packages07:49
StevenKIt will jump again since 2.6.27-7 got uploaded07:49
pittislangasek: samba with -v> WFM07:50
pittiScottK: nominated 280997 for intrepid07:53
gesergood morning pitti07:53
pittiStevenK: rocking07:53
dholbachgood morning07:57
persiaStevenK, As an admin, could you subscribe the Bluetooth team to bluez bugs? ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+subscribe )07:58
StevenKpersia: Done07:59
dholbachogra: speaking of admins: can you please unsubscribe edubuntu-members from thin-client-manager bugs and subscribe some edubuntu-bugsquad instead?07:59
dholbachI could unsubscribe edubuntu-members myself, but I'd prefer if some other team was subscribed at the same time08:00
gesergood morning dholbach08:16
dholbachhiya geser08:16
persiaslangasek, It was suggested that you might have a useful comment for bugs 281135 and 28114408:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 281135 in bluez-libs "Please remove bluez-libs from Intrepid" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28113508:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 281144 in bluez-utils "Please remove the bluez-utils source from Intrepid" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28114408:17
lukehasnonameIs there a reason linux-generic is being held back on my beta install of 8.10?08:38
persialukehasnoname, Have you checked on what it depends?  Is everything available?08:39
lukehasnonameI'll check.08:39
geserlukehasnoname: try "sudo apt-get install linux-generic" and it should tell you why it can't be installed08:39
lukehasnonamegeser: I ran the install and I didn't get errors08:43
persialukehasnoname, In that case it probably included a new dependency : update-manager won't install those except when doing a distribution upgrade.08:44
lukehasnoname  bluez-cups bluez-utils evolution evolution-common gimp gimp-data gvfs   gvfs-backends libgimp2.0 libpisock9 linux-headers-generic obex-data-server   totem totem-gstreamer totem-mozilla totem-plugins ubuntu-desktop08:45
lukehasnonameThose are all being held back, in addition to the linux-generic packages that were previously held back. Any clue on specifics?08:45
geserlukehasnoname: it probably wants to add or remove packages08:46
persialukehasnoname, Try running aptitude or synaptic or similar interactive tool to investigate.08:46
geser"sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" and check very carefully what it wants to remove (or add)08:46
fabbionemorning guys08:49
lukehasnonameehh I already pushed ahead with apt-get upgrade. I'll still check that though.08:49
mvocjwatson: are you ok with http://paste.ubuntu.com/55921/ ?08:51
liwmvo, in update-manager, you seem to be using gettext.gettext rather than gettext.install/gettext.translation. the latter is strongly recommended by the python stdlib docs. do you have a reason to prefer gettext.gettext?08:56
mvoliw: no strong reason, that I what I used in C and I'm familiar with.08:57
liwmvo, ack, that's a good reason08:58
mvoliw: what is the advantage of using the alternative form?08:58
mvoliw: is there something to read up? pydoc gettext seems to be not that informative08:58
liwmvo, "more flexibility and greater convenience than the GNU gettext API" says file:///usr/share/doc/python2.5/html/lib/node732.html08:59
liwmvo, the flexibility probably means just that the newer API allows easily switching between languages, or supporting several concurrently09:00
tseliotpitti: I have fixed this bug in jockey, can you have a look at my branch? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jockey/+bug/28014709:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 280147 in jockey "crash without interaction" [Undecided,New]09:00
* mvo waves to tseliot09:01
mvoliw: aha, cool. thanks. I will keep that in mind :)09:01
tseliotmvo: hi :-)09:01
liwmvo, I'm not sure the "greater convenience" applies to modules, just for applications, but we'll see; since the new API is the recommended one, I'll do system-cleaner with it, and we can compare notes some day09:02
mvoliw: sounds good!09:03
liwI have found a surprising dearth of documentation on this09:03
mvoliw: gettext in python? yeah, it seems that everybody just copies what he found other code. I find it also slightly anoying that gtk.glade needs its own bindtextdomain() calls (or at least it needed when I wrote the code)09:04
liwmvo, I think I saw a note somewhere saying that it might not be needed anymore, but who knows... writing such a doc (or a patch to python's stdlib docs) would be a good upstream contribution09:06
* mvo nods09:06
cjwatsonmvo: hmm, disabling cancel altogether sort of worries me. Could you wrap that in an environment variable that update-manager sets for now, and send it upstream to see what Joey thinks of it?09:19
cjwatsonmvo: the rest is OK although would it be worth allowing GDK_FUNC_RESIZE and GDK_FUNC_MAXIMIZE too?09:20
cjwatsonmvo: oh, trivial things: there's some tab damage visible there, and debconf is in bzr (lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/debconf/ubuntu)09:20
StevenKpitti: What do you think about bugs 281135 and 281144?09:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 281135 in bluez-libs "Please remove bluez-libs from Intrepid" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28113509:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 281144 in bluez-utils "Please remove the bluez-utils source from Intrepid" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28114409:21
cjwatsonliw: I think gettext.translation makes more sense for modules in the same way that C libraries using gettext need to use dgettext - it gives you separate control over the domain in use09:22
cjwatsonhmm, although python gettext offers dgettext too09:23
cjwatsondunno then :)09:23
cjwatsonlifeless: lock shell script> there's a 'with-lock-ex' command in chiark-utils-bin09:24
mvocjwatson: thanks, I will forward it to joeyh and wrap it for now09:24
cjwatsonlifeless: or there's the lockfile-* suite in lockfile-progs; IME those are more annoying to use though09:24
liwlifeless, I use lockfile(1) from procmail for locking in shell scripts09:25
nijabaHey there. Would you think that bug #150872 should be targeted for intrepid?09:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 150872 in partman-target "Installer should not list removable media in /etc/fstab" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15087209:31
cjwatsonnijaba: no, it would break things if done for intrepid09:37
cjwatsonnijaba: removable media is listed for a good reason right now09:37
cjwatsonnijaba: apt-cdrom has no way to discover the CD drive dynamically09:37
nijabacjwatson: ok, thanks, might be worth mentioning the issue in the release notes then and usb-creator help/doc/whatever as well09:38
cjwatsonnijaba: Evan is already aware of the issue and it's possible that some minor hack just for USB could be possible09:39
cjwatsonbut we can't just strip those lines out across the board.09:39
liwstatic device names seem to be a problem in every case, these days09:41
cjwatsonmvo: btw, on that debconf patch, wouldn't it be better to attach a realize signal handler rather than calling realize?10:03
mvocjwatson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/55931/ <- updated version10:04
mvocjwatson: realize-handler> hm, good point10:04
cjwatsonso $this->win->signal_connect("realize", sub { $this->win->window->set_functions(blah); }) or something # TEST THIS10:05
mvoif we continue this, I will actually lern perl along the way ;)10:06
* mvo adds it10:06
fabbionecjwatson: do you remember on the fly what source/udeb has partman_devices ?10:07
mvocjwatson: thanks, works fine, if its otherwise ok I will upload10:08
pittitseliot: bah, this Python unicode() vs. UTF-8 handling keeps driving me nuts10:10
tseliotpitti: is the error message handled by the kde ui?10:11
tseliotkde or gtk10:11
pittitseliot: why is wrapping the string into unicode() the right fix here?10:12
pittitseliot: it looks like a wrong encoding in a translation to me?10:12
tseliotpitti: kde uses QStrings10:12
pittitseliot: but this isn't KDE, this is just simple "print" to stdout10:12
pittistderr, but same thing10:12
tseliotpitti: where do you take the error message from?10:13
cjwatsonfabbione: partman-base10:13
pittitseliot: self.string_unprivileged10:13
cjwatsonfabbione: it's parted_devices, BTW10:13
pittitseliot: it calls AbstractUI._("english string")10:14
fabbionecjwatson: oh yes.. parted_devices sorry.. but i know you are much quicker than me there :) thanks10:14
cjwatsonpitti: if this is a Qt frontend, anything you get back from Qt as a QString tends to have to be wrappped in unicode() :(10:14
cjwatsonI ran into that in a big way in ubiquity10:14
pitticjwatson: that also affects the standard _() function?10:15
cjwatsonpitti: oh, or for printing to stdout, there is some really annoying stuff you have to do10:15
cjwatsonno, this is separate10:15
pittiright, I assumed that much10:15
cjwatson# Avoid having to do .encode('UTF-8') everywhere. This is a pain; I wish10:15
cjwatson# Python supported something like "sys.stdout.encoding = 'UTF-8'".10:15
cjwatsondef fix_stdout():10:15
cjwatson    import codecs10:15
cjwatson    sys.stdout = codecs.EncodedFile(sys.stdout, 'UTF-8')10:15
cjwatson    def null_decode(input, errors='strict'):10:15
cjwatson        return input, len(input)10:15
cjwatson    sys.stdout.decode = null_decode10:15
=== jamesh_ is now known as jamesh
cjwatsonand then call fix_stdout somewhere10:15
pittiI'll try to reproduce the error first, I guess10:15
tseliotpitti: ok, wrong fix then ;)10:16
pitticjwatson: thanks; I think I saw that so many times already, but it still didn't settle in my brain10:16
tseliotpitti: my previous commit is still useful though (to blacklist nvidia 71 and 96)10:16
pittitseliot: yeah, I'll merge that10:16
cjwatsonpitti: see also http://ewx.livejournal.com/457086.html (read the comments)10:18
pittitseliot: hm, I don't get the crash with de_DE.UTF-8 (same as the reporter), and I get proper umlauts on stderr10:19
pittitseliot: with both the GTK and KDE frontends10:19
tseliotpitti: it might depend on the locale. I had a similar problem with Envy with a Turkish guy10:20
pittitseliot: right, I know, but I'm using the very same locale as the reporter10:20
tseliotok, it would be nice if we could reproduce the problem10:21
pittitkamppeter: I fixed the hpgl regression and uploaded 1.3.9 to debian and intrepid10:23
cjwatsonpitti: unfortunately python people don't appear to understand how encodings actually conventionally work in Unix and regard all this as not-a-bug10:23
pittitoo many MacOS X programmers amongst them? :-/10:24
tkamppeterpitti, great, it contains also an important fix in pstops.10:24
cjwatsonspecifically they don't understand that stream encodings are supposed to be set by the environment not (in some undefined way) by the terminal [even though in some entirely different ideal world the latter might be how it ought to work]10:24
tkamppeterpitti, why does "bzr pull"W not show it?10:24
pittitkamppeter: I just pushed like 10 seconds ago10:24
cjwatsonand that there have to be ways to override it since the environment can be wrong10:25
tkamppeterpitti, sorry, I was 1 minute too early10:25
cjwatsonactually, python does set stdout's encoding from the environment, but *only if stdout is a terminal*. This is clearly mad since putting | less after your program can cause it to stop working.10:26
pittiindeed I just tried that, but it still works10:26
tseliotpitti: is it worth catching the exception then? (not that I like it...)10:26
pitti$ PYTHONPATH=. gtk/jockey-gtk --check 2>&1 |cat10:26
pittiSie sind nicht berechtigt, diese Aktion auszuf├╝hren.10:26
cjwatsonit depends on your environment10:26
cjwatsonthe reporter might have the locale set but not in fact have the locale generated, for example10:26
pittiah, that's a good thing to ask in the bug report10:27
cjwatsonI really would suggest just clobbering it with something like the rune I suggested above10:27
cjwatsonpython is known-broken in this area and you have to set things explicitly10:27
cjwatsonif sys.stdout.encoding were writable it would be much more pleasant10:27
pitticjwatson: right, I just don't feel good about hardcoding UTF-8, since users might actually use an ISO, KOI-8, or whatever encoding in their locale10:28
cjwatsonpitti: use locale.getpreferredencoding() in place of 'UTF-8' then10:28
cjwatson(I haven't tested that but I think it should work)10:29
pittithis raises a severe deja-vu for me; I think I got that like half a year ago in apport10:29
cjwatsonpitti: confirmed, http://paste.ubuntu.com/55934/10:37
cjwatsonyou might want to do the same for stderr10:38
pitticjwatson: nice, thanks!10:43
pittiStevenK: hm, those are duplicates?10:45
pittiStevenK: looking at checkrdepends bluez-libs intrepid10:45
YokoZarSo, a game I've been preparing for Intrepid for some time (Spring) just made a release, and I have a package ready.  Is there still enough time to upload it to Intrepid, or will it be rejected?  (this is a completely new package)10:46
persiapitti, Note that libbluetooth3 is now provided by the bluez source.10:46
persiaYokoZar, It's decidedly late.  you might appeal to MOTU SRU, but it's unlikely.10:47
pitti-- intrepid/universe i386 deps on libbluetooth2:10:47
pittiand some in main/universe on eternally-lagging hppa10:48
ogramvo, 0.7.8 didnt fix it for me :/10:48
StevenKpitti: Yup, ussp-push is the last one10:48
StevenKI fixed the rest today10:49
pittihowever, there are a couple of more unfixed things in bug 27634310:49
ubottuLaunchpad bug 276343 in ussp-push "Rebuild for libbluetooth2 -> libbluetooth3 transition" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27634310:49
pittiStevenK: so once the transition is complete, then the package can go, sure10:49
pittibut it seems most of them should be closed?10:50
StevenKpitti: Yeah, most of the bugs should be sorted. I forgot to add the bug number to the my buildX uploads10:53
StevenKShould do this through the mail gateway10:54
pittiit just occurred to me that our gnutls13 -> gnutls26 transition is still outstanding, too10:56
pittiotherwise we'd again have two gnutls versions in stable10:56
StevenKWhat's needed for that?10:57
persiaThat's a bundle, including curl10:58
StevenKpitti: Let me finish dealing with bluetooth first10:59
pittiI am just doing process-removals, and that reminded me10:59
persiaIs there any good tool that could identify transitions underway?  While completing them all is maybe hard, having a list would be a good start.11:00
=== asac_ is now known as asac
StevenKpersia: NBS, mostly11:00
persiaStevenK, That only covers cases where there isn't a source name transition.  I'm wondering if just checking packages that build-depend against a given -dev have binaries that depend on the associated lib.11:01
pittithe gnutls13 source is still there, so that won't appear as NBS11:01
persiaSame for bluetooth, or other stuff11:01
StevenKpitti: Right, but we have rdepends11:02
pittiStevenK: you know checkrdepends?11:02
StevenKpitti: Of course11:04
StevenKRight, that mail should set everything aside from ussp-push to Fix Released.11:04
StevenKWhere the ussp-push source has gone, I don't know11:04
* pitti needs to run out for some errands, bbl11:07
ScottKasac: About NM, not on purpose I don't use a hybrid setup.  Everyone who tried it (there were three of us, IIRC) saw similar issues on Kubuntu.11:08
asacScottK: hybrid == /etc/network/interfaces has a configuration ;)11:09
ScottKasac: It says auto eth0.  Does that count?11:10
asacScottK: if there is no iface eth0 ... line then it shouldnt11:10
ScottKThe only iface line I have is for lo11:11
asacScottK: please paste your route -n output when you see these packet losses11:11
ScottKOK.  Will do.11:11
asacScottK: i have received other complains, but couldnt reproduce here except for a hybrid setup11:11
asacScottK: for me "wired" interfaces always have a metric/prio of "1" and wireless have a metric/prio of "2"11:12
mvocould some native speaker/UI expert review those strings: http://paste.ubuntu.com/55942/ ? its for the upgrade note about the new fusa applet that replaced the logout button11:12
asacwhich should tie-break the path the packages travel - assuming that both interfaces provide a route to the same net11:12
asacScottK: are you using NM 0.7 on intrepid right now? if so, please post the routing right away :)11:14
asac(even if you dont see the package loss right now911:14
StevenKasac: gnash is still on your list, right?11:14
ScottKasac: Will do11:15
ScottKasac: In the bug or pastebin?11:16
james_wmvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/55946/11:16
mvojames_w: excellent, thanks! is the text ok? understandable etc?11:16
james_wmvo: "got" -> "has been", "on the standard location" -> "in the standard location"11:16
james_wmvo: yeah, but you might want a UI review if you can find somebody11:17
mvojames_w: I will try, I had hoped that mpt is around11:18
ScottKasac: I added it to Bug #28091911:18
ubottuLaunchpad bug 280919 in network-manager "NetworkManager 0.7~~svn20081008t224042-0ubuntu1 breaks Knetworkmanager" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28091911:18
james_wmvo: yeah, is seele around?11:18
james_wdoes anyone know if it's possible to get rmadison to really show me just source records. It seems to recognise "source" as an architecture, and has a "source and binary" option that I'm not selecting, but it still shows me all architectures.11:19
james_wlooking at the php it seems to proxy directly to "dak ls" calls11:20
mvoogra: what video driver is this?11:28
ogramvo, intel11:29
* ogra goes to debug it more11:30
ogramight be gpm11:30
ograor just a bug in xorg wrt dpms11:30
cjwatsonjames_w: it actually proxies to madison-lite for us; it's probably a madison-lite bug if it doesn't work. That said, 'rmadison -a source linux' seems to DTRT. What's your example?11:42
james_wcjwatson: ah, I was running against Debian11:42
james_wit does indeed seem to work for Ubuntu11:43
asacScottK: thanks. the routing looks fine. but as you said in the bug you didnt have problems with that?11:43
cjwatsonjames_w: ahright11:44
ScottKasac: Yes.  Riddell just reported he has no wired connection either right now.11:44
cjwatsonit's rather unusual for madison-lite to work *better* than dak ls ...11:44
asacScottK: ok. you dont see an AP ... but thats a different issue (if not a general knetworkmanager bug)11:44
ScottKSo I think there is a real problem here, not sure exactly what as I couldn't replicate the laggy behaviour I saw yesterday.11:44
asacScottK: you could try to load iwl4965 with disable_hw_scan=1 ... and see if you get more reliable scans11:45
liwdavmor2, rumor tells me you have an acer aspire one... does it require non-free drivers?11:45
ScottKCould be.  Others have no wired at all, so don't take my success as meaningful.11:45
asac(but thats a different bug)11:45
Riddellactually my eth0 seems to have disappeared completely11:45
asacScottK: others == users that currently see this problem?11:45
ScottKI think that's probably unrelated11:45
Riddelldmesg doesn't show it11:45
davmor2liw: I do indeed, goes and double checks11:45
ScottKasac: Yes.  Riddell and regreening at least.11:46
asacRiddell: e1000?11:46
asacRiddell: if you see packet loss please put your route -n to the bug11:46
Riddellasac: fortunately not11:46
asacRiddell: if eth0 is gone its obviously a driver issue. if wireless is the only iface used, its unlikely that slowness is a NM problem11:47
asacat least ii dont see how it could be :/11:47
RiddellI have no eth0 but I have something called pan011:50
asacRiddell: but that doesnt show up in NM right?11:50
asacRiddell: pan0 :(11:50
TreenaksRiddell: pan0 is bluetooth-related11:51
asacRiddell: hal-find-by-capability --capability net.8020311:51
Riddelloh.  bluetooth.11:51
asacif that doesnt show up anything then NM cannot know your wired11:51
asacfor wireless its: hal-find-by-capability --capability net.8021111:51
Riddellasac: that shows up nothing indeed11:51
asacfor 3G mdoem its: hal-find-by-capability --capability modem11:52
Riddellthe wireless one shows something11:52
asacRiddell: yeah. what chipset has your wired?11:52
Riddell00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82566DC Gigabit Network Connection11:53
Riddell"Kernel modules: e1000e"  erk11:53
asacha ;)11:53
asaci knew it :-D11:53
asacwasnts e1000e fixed?11:53
asacRiddell: is that driver loaded (e.g. lsmod | grep e1000) ?11:53
persiaYes, but the key to restore broken firmware wasn't pushed (IIRC)11:54
asacoh ... so Riddell has a broken firmware ;) ... not that cool11:54
Riddellasac: yes11:54
Riddellshows how often I use ethernet11:54
asacRiddell: ok i think you should talk to rtg11:54
asacRiddell: and your wireless issues are?11:55
Riddellasac: my wireless is all good11:55
asacok. then there is no NM regression at least :)11:55
Riddellwell other people have troubles we havn't got to the bottom of yet11:56
liwif I add translatable strings to my code, the .pot file needs updating; do I just re-create it from scratch using xgettext or what?12:13
cjwatsongettext supplies a Makefile that can do it12:14
cjwatsonyou don't want to copy it around by hand if you can help it ...12:16
liwor possibly /usr/share/gettext/po/Makefile.in.in, hmm12:16
liwcjwatson, yeah, I really really don't want hundreds of lines of excessively complicated Makefiles :)12:16
cjwatsonI guess you aren't using automake12:16
liwthis is for a Python program, so no12:16
cjwatsonyou could use gettextize12:16
cjwatsonand see what it does and whether you can massage the result to be acceptable12:16
cjwatsonusually you just leave its results in po/ and forget about it12:17
cjwatsonto directly answer your original question, it ultimately comes down to recreating it using xgettext and using msgmerge to update the .po files12:17
liw. o O (someone needs to document this really well)12:17
cjwatsoninfo gettext12:18
liwcjwatson, I have been reading that, and I find it to be confusing12:18
cjwatsonwhile I sympathise with a detestation of autogenerated Makefiles, in this case it is orders of magnitude less wasted time than doing it by hand, IME12:19
liwmight be because it's a complicated process, of course12:19
liwcjwatson, that's possibly true, but then I need to deal with the massive headache of keeping the autogeneration of the Makefile working12:20
cjwatsonI find that easier than keeping the .pot/.po files working without that12:20
liwgettextize won't work without autotools being used, it seems12:20
cjwatsonyou could look at how debconf does it12:21
cjwatsonit has a by-hand Makefile for this12:21
cjwatsoncopying somebody else's by-hand work is probably easier than duplicating it :)12:21
liwI return to my point that someone needs to document this well :)12:23
liwas far as I can see, there needs to be something that updates the .pot file with new strings (and removes old ones?), then based on that updates the .po files (adds missing strings, marks changed strings as fuzzy?); that doesn't sound like it should require autotools or hordes of Makefile magic12:24
cjwatsonupdate .pot files with new strings => xgettext; update .po files => msgmerge; you also need something to compile .po to .gmo files; you might want to support 'make install' and/or 'make dist'; sometimes people want to disable i18n or enable only certain languages; and some people want to support systems where GNU gettext is not already installed12:28
cjwatsonalso some maintainers only want to rebuild .pot manually rather than automatically12:29
cjwatsonor want to update it only if the .pot changed non-trivially (i.e. more than just the creation date or whatever)12:29
cjwatson(which avoids vcs noise)12:29
liware .gmo files the same as .mo files or is this some fourth type of file?12:30
cjwatsononce you do all of that you're actually not that far off the complexity of gettext's po/Makefile.in.in12:30
cjwatsoninfo gettext C-s gmo12:30
liwack, they're gnu's extended and embraced version of .mo, good :)12:32
liwcjwatson, all that complexity could surely be wrapped in tools less awful than autotools, I'm sure; anyway, I don't want or need most of the complexity, so I'll go some simpler route12:36
mvoliw: check out python-distutils-extra if you look for something that does the i18n in system cleaner12:39
liwmvo, that looks like useful for the parts that are involved in installing the .mo files; does it take care of generating the .mo files from .po files, too?12:42
mvoliw: yes12:42
mvoliw: it should do all that is required, if not, file a bug against it12:42
mvo(or let glatzor or me know about the problem)12:43
liwmvo, is it also involved in updating .po files from .pot?12:43
* liw goes read docs12:44
mvoliw: yes, it should do all that, check gnome-app-install setup.cfg and setup.py for a example12:44
mvoliw: + po/POTFILES.in and you should be done12:44
mvoliw: it also supports desktop files and desktop file i18n12:45
asacRiddell: if people have troubles ask them if they are running a hybrid setup (meaning: 1 device managed in /etc/network/interfaces and the other in NM)12:45
Riddellasac: right12:45
asacRiddell: that setup is know to have metric issues i still have to sort somehow12:45
liwmvo, "setup.py build_i18n --merge-po" seems to require a po/POTFILES.in, which does not support wildcards; is that intentional?13:15
mvoliw: po/POTFILES.in is required, not sure about the wildcards, it uses intltool internally, not sure if that supports them or not (I guess not if you have problems with it)13:17
liwmvo, ah, so it's just intltool-update that uses that, ok13:18
mvoliw: yeah, its just a (thin) wrapper around the intltool* stuff13:18
alkisgmvo, has anyone reported that in intrepid beta update-manager  doesn't *ever* close itself but just hangs in the "ldconfig deferred processing" phase?13:19
mvoalkisg: yes - that bug is milestoned13:20
alkisg(ogra told me to tell you, he also saw that yesterday)13:20
ogramvo, ah, great, i wasnt sure13:20
mvobug 28023613:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 280236 in update-manager "update-manager --dist-upgrade gets stuck at the end" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28023613:20
ogramvo, btw i just removed gnome-screensaver and still see the issue ... i'll run a dbus-monitor session now to see if there are any events keeping it from proerly doing dpms13:21
alkisgmvo, ogra, thanks.13:21
mvoogra: oh, that is interssting13:22
liwmvo, yay! ./usr/share/locale/fi/LC_MESSAGES/systemcleaner.mo13:24
TreenaksDoes anyone know from which package network-manager(-gnome?) gets the available UTMS/GPRS network list?13:26
TreenaksI can't find it in network-manager{,-gnome}13:26
alkisgmvo, and another somewhat serious one, gparted (and the installer) can't create smaller partitions on empty disks (tried on different 3 PCs). I had to create 1 full-disk partition, shrink it, then create others and then run the installer...13:27
mvoalkisg: oh, is that reported already?13:31
alkisgmvo, I saw something similar reported, but only for the installer, not the backend lib which is used (and I think the fault is there... libparted is it?)13:32
cjwatsonalkisg: I've never heard of such a bug (I co-maintain the installer); it must be hardware-specific. Can you refer me to the bug number?13:33
alkisgIt's usually reported as ubiquity crashed, with auto-collected debug data13:33
alkisgI've sent one myself, and was considered a duplicate13:34
alkisglet me find it...13:34
cjwatsonI'm not sure why that would be a crash, unless there's something more than what you described above13:35
loolliw: Good :)13:35
loolliw: Do you need sponsoring for system-cleaner with i18n?13:35
liwlool, when it's done, yes13:36
alkisgThis is the main one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/260001 (I think it's the same symptoms as mine),13:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 260001 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashed with InstallStepError in configure_bootloader()" [Undecided,New]13:36
cjwatsonconfigure_bootloader has nothing to do with creating partitions!13:36
alkisgAnd this one's mine: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/27801913:36
ubottuLaunchpad bug 278019 in ubiquity "ubiquity crashed with InstallStepError in configure_bootloader() (dup-of: 260001)" [Undecided,New]13:36
alkisgcjwatson, read mine, I'm not really sure if they're the same13:37
cjwatsonthis sounds like the problem where libparted sometimes forgets to change the partition type13:37
alkisgcjwatson, yes, that's what I got13:37
cjwatsonI've tried to figure that out multiple times and haven't got anywhere; I can give it another shot, I suppose13:37
cjwatsondescribing it as "can't create smaller partitions on empty disks" is a bit overly broad though :)13:38
cjwatsonit only happens if you're creating the partition at the same position as something that used to be NTFS13:38
alkisgBut I also tried (in another system) to just create an ext3 partition with 100Gb size (disk = 640Gb), and it couldn't. Not the installer, not gparted.13:38
cjwatsonalkisg: that's a different problem and I'd like to know about it13:38
cjwatson(with logs etc.)13:38
cjwatsonseriously, I create partitions less than the size of the disk all the time :)13:39
alkisgcjwatson, ouch, this morning I've setup the system, and it's on a lab I'm not responsible for...13:39
cjwatsonalthough not on 640GB disks; it could be an overflow of some kind13:39
alkisgIt has 2 disks, I'll remove one and reproduce it, but I can only do it next weekend. Is this ok?13:39
cjwatsonit'll have to be :)13:39
alkisgthank you guys.13:40
cjwatsonI'll see if I can replicate the NTFS partition type thing today13:40
Treenaks(answer to my question: libmbca + mobile-broadband-provider-info)13:41
=== Guest52963 is now known as jelmer
AnAntHello, how can I make some look at a bug that was filed a month ago: bug #26721713:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 267217 in compiz "Compiz segmentation faults after Intrepid update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26721713:56
Laney*make* someone?13:59
kwwiifirst he'd have to find me :p14:00
asacis intltool really not installable on hardy amd64 ;)? my NM ppa build thinks it cannot install it :/14:02
kwwiiseb128: I just put some new packages in my ppa: ubuntu-wallpapers, human-theme, and ubuntu-artwork14:06
kwwiiseb128: so once they are tested a bit I will be bugging you :-)14:07
kwwiiseb128: if nothing crazy happens these will be the last updates14:07
Keybukkillall pulseaudio14:07
* Keybuk makes the world a better palce14:07
Keybukit was doing that thing where no other application can start, again14:08
seb128kwwii: ok14:08
ograseb128, btw, the volume control applet and brigthness are applet not closing their rulers anymore by default, is that a upsteam decision ?14:10
ograseb128, btw, the volume control applet and brigthness are applet not closing their rulers anymore by default, is that a upsteam decision ?14:10
seb128ogra: dunno about the brightness but the volume one is an upstream choice14:10
ogra(you need to click the applet again to close it)14:10
Treenaksogra: instead of working menu-like, you mean?14:11
ograwhile i appreciate it on mobile because its helpful if you dont hit the rules first time with your finger, i find it pertty annoying on laptop/desktop14:11
ograTreenaks, yep14:11
seb128ogra: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55324914:13
ubottuGnome bug 553249 in mixer "Dock windows dangle when the panel autohides." [Normal,Unconfirmed]14:13
ogradoesnt look like anyone will fix it in time, thats indeed quite bad with autohiding14:14
* ogra personally just saw it as an annoyance he could live with, just wanted to know it was intentional14:15
ogramvo, sooo, removing gpm fixes the issue, looking at the log i see xorg loads DPMS for the intel driver, i guess we have a concurring situation between xorg and gpm both wanting to handle DPMS (we had that before)14:27
ogratjaalton, ^^^14:27
* ogra will now try to put something in place that unsets DPMS for X and instal gpm again and see if that fixes it as well to prove that14:27
tjaaltonogra: xset -dpms14:29
ogratjaalton, ah, right, i was starting to play with hal-set-property stuff in gdm Init :)14:29
ograthast easier indeed14:30
ograand probably more effective as well :)14:31
mvothanks ogra, could you please add that to the bugreport?14:33
ogramvo, if i'm sure ...14:33
ograi just remembered that clash from before, i'm not sure yet that it is the cause, and compiz surely plays a role as well, as switching to metacity solves it14:34
* ogra twiddles thumbs waiting for gpm14:35
ograno gpm reaction ...14:41
ograhah, now it kicked in14:43
ogramvo, so "xset -dpms" makes it work ...14:43
ogratjaalton, can we default to have the driver not using it ?14:44
ograthough i guess that gets us probs in gdm14:44
persiaIf the issue only happens in a compiz session, perhaps compiz could xset -dpms ?14:45
ograyeah, hat sounds sane14:45
jcristauactually it doesn't14:45
persiajcristau, I trust you more than I when it comes to X.  Why is it not sane?14:47
jcristaumaybe i just don't understand the problem though..14:47
ograjcristau, the driver wanting to set xorg dpms values concurring to gpm wanting to do the same14:47
persiaBut only with compiz?  With metacity, this issue doesn't exist?14:48
tjaaltonDPMS in xserver has been enabled by default two years ago14:48
Treenaksogra: (is this gpm the console mouse thing?!)14:48
ograpersia, right14:48
ograTreenaks, gnome-power-manager ...14:49
Treenaksogra: ah, sorry ok :)14:49
ograjcristau, we had that prob before though at times where dpms was handled by gnome-screensaver, that functionallity moved over to gpm within the last year14:50
jcristaui think it'd be more sane to understand the bug and fix it than to disable dpms..14:50
ograyou dont disable it14:50
ogragpm stil cares, you just move the trigger out of X14:51
persiaWell, you're disabling it in X, and expecting something else to handle it.14:51
jcristauthere's an interface for that in some extension, iirc14:51
persiaOn the other hand, if X is doing it, and doing it right, perhaps it makes more sense for other things not to do it.14:51
ograpersia, that would mean to hack up hal/gpm14:52
ograeither hal/gpm is broken in combo with compiz and dpms or X is ...14:52
persiaogra, Indeed.  Something is the culprit.14:53
ogras/X/the intel driver/14:53
jcristauthe driver, really?14:54
ograi dont care on which side we fix it, atm i'm just trying to nail down the issue properly :)14:54
ograjcristau, it could as well be that gpm or hal dont use the right backend interface ...14:54
ograif you say there is an interface14:55
ograall i can say that switching off either of the dpms handlers fixes the issue14:56
jcristauthey probably do, if it works without compiz14:57
* ogra looks at compiz plugins14:59
pittizul: was linux-xen really meant to be uploaded to intrepid? It's version number is 2.6.27-1~ppa214:59
zulpitti: no it wasnt15:00
pittizul: if it was a dput error, I can just reject it; if it was deliberate, please fix the version15:00
pittiah, ok15:00
zulmisfire on my part15:00
pittialright, saves me some reviewing :)15:00
pittizul: thanks15:00
pittiso, I accepted libv4l source and binaries in the same publisher cycle; kees, what's necessary now to make v4l work again?15:02
StevenKpitti: Ah, since you're here. Now do we want to kill gnutls13 dead, or just demote it to universe?15:02
pittiStevenK: oh, everything in main uses 26 now?15:02
StevenKpitti: No, there's a bunch of stuff in main that uses 1315:02
pittiStevenK: I'll demote it for now; if someone wants to do the work of completing the transition, that would be good, but not really critical15:03
StevenKpitti: All up, it's 59 source packages, main + universe15:03
persiaI think we should target getting it killed completely.  Orphans in universe tend to get the least possible support.15:03
pittishould be like 5 or 6 packages in main15:03
ograhmm, nothing in compiz touches dpms15:03
pittipersia: true that15:03
* StevenK checks15:04
pittiStevenK: I just finished doing new, I'm fine with doing the transition for main right now15:04
pittioh, erm, cjwatson, do you know whether we have a release meeting today?15:04
StevenKpitti: Meh, I have a script that can do and upload it in about 5 minutes.15:04
pittiStevenK: oh, ok, please do that then :)15:05
StevenKpitti: Longer if you'd rather test them and confirm they don't pull in 1315:05
pittiStevenK: I don't want to stop you, just wanted to take some bits off your shoulders15:05
* lamont mutters at NCommander that yes, the current thinking is that there is a bug in the NPTL/hppa implementation15:05
StevenKI *like* doing NBS15:05
cjwatsonpitti: as far as I know; it's on the calendar15:06
pittiStevenK: ok, please go ahead then; seems I need to prep for the meeting, and I still need to do SRU, too15:06
pittiStevenK: that's 59 binaries, sources looks more like 3015:07
StevenKI had it has 59 sources15:07
pittihm, maybe15:07
StevenK9 sources in main15:07
pittiStevenK: anyway, gnutls13 and opencdk10 were removed from Debian long ago, so if anything breaks, they have the patches15:08
* ScottK supports persia's suggestion about killing it.15:08
james_wI think 13->26 might have been one where the API changed but the -dev package didn't change name because the fallout was small15:10
pittiright, it stayed libgnutls-dev15:10
persiajames_w, That would mean we have about 60 packages that might FTBFS.  Let's try to get them all updated by Monday.  Between StevenK, ScottK, pitti, you, and I we ought be able to do it.15:10
* StevenK has the list15:11
james_wpersia: let me find the transition bug first15:11
* StevenK is about to deal with main15:11
pittiagreed; upload them all wholesale, and then collect the pieces which broke15:11
StevenKAll sixty of them?15:11
james_wpersia: that should tell us what did in Debian, and whether we have the fixed packages15:11
StevenKI can do that soonish15:11
mvoogra: I suspect it might be because compiz switches on some 3d stuff that then makes the dpms more sensitive or something15:11
pittiStevenK: it might be worth going through them and compare if Debian just has a new revision; then we should sync instead15:12
persiaStevenK, Thanks.  And the rest of us will look at FTBFS fallout, and help port.15:12
ogramvo, yeah, might be15:12
james_wpitti: did libv4l go to main?15:12
StevenKpitti: That's a little harder15:12
pittiStevenK: unless they did something weird, of course15:12
ogramvo, at least in gpm there were no changes to dpms since nearly a year according to the changelog15:12
pittijames_w: no, universe; is there an MIR for it already?15:12
StevenKpitti: It's very easy for me to bump them buildX15:12
StevenKto buildX15:12
pittiStevenK: ok, do that then; we can check for syncs for the ones which FTBFSed15:12
james_wpitti: I don't think so, so that would be the next step15:12
StevenKIt's a little more work, but not much15:13
StevenKI'm just going to assume they build15:13
pittiStevenK: ok, convinced15:13
StevenKUsing changelog entry of "No-change rebuild for libgnutls13 -> libgnutls26 transistion."15:14
StevenKUnless james_w finds a bug first15:14
james_wgive me two minutes, I should be able to15:14
StevenKjames_w: If I put the bug number in the changelog entry, the janitor will try and close tasks for each of those packages in that bug15:15
StevenKI'm also ignoring gnash, since I know it FTBFS, and asac will update it.15:16
james_wlynx is usually the pain15:17
asacStevenK: it should work ... try: bzr branch lp:~gnash/gnash/ubuntu.head; cd ubuntu.head; ./debian/build_head15:17
StevenKI was talking about 0.8.2-0ubuntu315:17
james_wStevenK: but I can't find a tracking bug, so please go ahead and we'll work with the fallout15:18
StevenKjames_w: Aye15:19
StevenKI can make a bug15:20
persiaStevenK, Why not only put the packages that FTBFS in the bug, due to the "Can't unsubscribe" bug in LP.15:21
StevenKpersia: That works15:21
StevenKI'll make a bug of the ones that FTBFS15:21
persiaPlease subscribe the rest of us to it :)15:22
StevenKHeh, yes15:22
ScottKAlso subscribe NCommander to it.  He loves FTBFS.15:23
StevenKasac: Or I can just upload the bzr head of gnash to intrepid :-P15:24
persiaHrm.  Maybe just subscribe cruft-busters : that's most of us, and includes other interested parties.15:24
StevenKpersia: Good point15:25
james_wStevenK: subscribe me (james-w) as well please15:26
persiajames_w, You're not a cruft-buster?15:27
cjwatsonbryce: 207881 recently got reopened and is on the release-critical list15:29
cjwatsonTheMuso: are you on top of 204272? it has zillions of duplicates and looks serious15:32
ograkwwii, whoops, you renamed NewHuman ?15:32
StevenKpitti, persia, james_w, ScottK: Uploading15:32
pittigo, StevenK, go :)15:33
persiaStevenK, Thank you :)15:33
* StevenK grins15:33
persiaPuts you over 200, doesn't it?15:33
StevenKpersia: Or very close ot15:35
cjwatsonbryce: 274045 appears to have a patch, if you haven't seen it15:38
* StevenK pushes packages uphill15:40
ion_Does anyone feel like sponsoring http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18250664/iconv.debdiff to fix LP #278195? Thanks.15:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 278195 in gnokii "Incorrect encoding for the synchronized entries" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27819515:42
tjaaltoncjwatson: upstream doesn't test with old chips, so regressions are possible15:42
StevenKcurl has already failed on sparc15:44
StevenKRight, curl has also failed on lpia and powerpc, so we have our first victum15:46
StevenKEr, victim15:46
StevenKconfigure.ac:105: required file `./config.guess' not found15:47
StevenKconfigure.ac:105: required file `./config.sub' not found15:47
tjaaltonwha-at, we have nouveau now?15:47
ogralooks like :)15:48
bugabundo_work1ogra: hi15:48
tjaaltonwell, AIUI it doesn't even build15:48
tjaaltonlibdrm-dev(inst 2.3.1-0build1 ! = wanted 2.3.1+git+20080706+401f77a-1)15:49
bugabundo_work1ogra: ping15:49
ogratjaalton, well, someone synced it (looks like slangasek )15:49
ograbugabundo_work1, yes ?15:49
persiaRAOF, Can this be made to work?15:49
bugabundo_work1ogra: can you help filipegarcia with his touch device?15:49
ograprobably, lets take that to #ubuntu-mobile though15:50
bugabundo_work1maybe we can go to another #... its kinda offtopic here15:50
bugabundo_work1ok ogra... thanks15:50
filipegarciathank you15:50
tjaaltonpersia: not without a newer libdrm and drm modules for the kernel15:51
persiatjaalton, That was my previous understanding, but I figured that the maintainer of the nouveau PPA would probably have some idea why we have a nouveau sync :)15:52
StevenKsuperm1: Can you track down ussp-push at some point, it's only thing left for bluetooth15:52
* StevenK goes to bed. I'll deal with fallout from build failures in the morning15:52
aliases123hi um. this might be unrelated but i thought i would raise this anyway here.... some of the pdfs http://www.ubuntu.com/system/files/u35/Openbravo-final.pdf has the title microsoft powerpoint at the top.15:54
aliases123i'm considering filing a bug.15:54
radixmvo: hi, can I bug you to take a look at a smart patch?15:55
asacmdke: there? -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/3g-wizard-screenshots/15:56
tjaaltonpersia: I'm trying to find the bug number..15:57
mvoradix: sure15:57
radixmvo: it's bug #27934315:57
ubottuLaunchpad bug 279343 in landscape "Small smart fixes need to go in the Intrepid package" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27934315:58
radixmvo: it's a debdiff to include an upstream version 1.1.1, which are some fixes that are important for the usage by landscape15:58
radix(but they're general bug fixes, not really specific to landscape)16:00
mvoradix: reading it now16:03
radixawesome, thanks16:03
mathiazmvo: could you review the branch I've pushed for bug 84918?16:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 84918 in unattended-upgrades "package should set up sensible config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8491816:06
=== ivoks2 is now known as ivoks
mvomathiaz: will do, its on my list for today16:09
mathiazmvo: great - thanks !16:09
* mvo just needs to finish a update-manager upload16:09
tseliotmvo: will my script be included too?16:18
pittimdz: TBH, I'd just upload the g-p-m fix; easy enough to revert if it causes regressions...16:26
mdzpitti: ok16:27
mdzpitti: done16:27
pittimdz: do you want to send the CFT, or shall I take that?16:27
mdzpitti: if you could do it, I would be grateful, as my wrists are quite sore already after yesterday16:27
pittimdz: no problem, consider it done16:28
mdzpitti: I just saw the "new improved logout button" update-notifier action16:28
mdzpitti:  but pressing "perform this action now" has no visible effect16:29
pittimvo: ^ hmm; shouldn't gconf changes be visible immediately? or does it need a panel restart?16:29
mvoRiddell: have you made up your mind about kdm-kde4 ?16:29
pittimvo: if the latter, mabye that can become part of the script?16:29
pittimdz: does killall gnome-panel update it for you?16:29
mdzpitti,mvo: I just restarted my panel and it is still unchanged16:29
Riddellmvo: mm, what was the question again?16:30
mvomdz: none at all? that is odd, it should present a dialog in both in success or failure case16:30
mvomdz: do you have /usr/share/gnome-panel/migrate-fusa-config.py ?16:30
mvomdz: is that 755 ?16:30
mdzmvo: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2486 2008-10-10 13:47 /usr/share/gnome-panel/migrate-fusa-config.py16:30
mvoRiddell: you mentioned earlier it should be purged on upgrade?16:31
mdzgood guess16:31
mvomdz: thanks, that explains it :/16:31
mvomdz: could you make it 755 and see if that makes it more happy?16:31
mvomdz: I will fix this here right away (and wonder why it worked for me)16:32
mdzmvo: now I get a dialog: "no logout button found"16:32
pittimvo: locally built package, I figure16:32
mvomdz: aha! what does your panel look like? did you customize it before?16:32
mdzmvo: I have added some applets16:33
mdzmvo: but I have a fusa applet and a logout applet16:33
keespitti: what's left are the libv4l patches that have been collected for various applications -- I think pgraner and wouter attached details to the bug and sent to ubuntu-devel16:33
Riddellmvo: kdm (in intrepid) and kdm-kde4 (in hardy) both contain /etc/kde4/kdm.  kdm in intrepid conflicts with kdm-kde4 in hardy.  will kdm-kde4 get removed first then kdm installed?  in which case purge is good16:34
mvomdz: it is (currently) very careful, if the logout button is in a different place than in the original config, it will fail. could you sent me a "gconftool --dump /apps/panel" please?16:34
=== ma101 is now known as ma10
mdzmvo: it is at the upper right, and I doubt it has moved...16:35
mdzmvo: but this is a very old install (upgrade from Debian) so anything is possible16:35
mdzmvo: emailed16:35
mvomdz: the gconf dump will tell me I think. I can make the checks less strict I think16:36
pittimdz: CFG sent16:36
pittimdz: CFT, too16:36
mdzpitti: thank you16:37
mvoRiddell: hm, I'm not 100% sure16:37
pittimvo: can we replace the logout applet with fusa regardless of its position?16:37
Riddellmvo: lets not purge then16:38
mvoRiddell: ok16:38
mvopitti: yes16:38
RiddellI'll make sure to test upgrades do the right thing with init scripts and updating /etc/kde4/kdm16:38
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
* pitti doesn't envy the buildds now; they got StevenK'ed (gnutls), doko'ed (hardy SRUs for gcc/gcj/gnat), and will now be ArneGoetje'd (langpacks)16:41
* jdong is having his dreams of a non-X11-attached trackerd shattered16:42
jdongis there a way to start dbus-daemon properly at the CLI?16:43
superm1wgrant, have you already looked to see if bryce's patch to GPM improved the situation on your hardware?  my mirror will be lagging by a day once it's done building16:45
luisbg_superm1, <ScottK> Kudos for superm1 for the work he's done so far, but we're still at zero bluetooth capability in KDE currently.16:46
luisbg_a few minutes ago in #ubuntu-meeting16:46
mvopitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56025/ is the current text for the notification - do you think there should be more?16:47
mvompt: : I would like your opinion on http://paste.ubuntu.com/56025/  and suggestions for improvements :)16:49
mpt"functionality", eh16:51
superm1luisbg, what meeting is going on in there right now?16:51
mvompt: not a good word?16:51
mptmvo, no16:51
pitticjwatson: I'll change the jockey handler to succeed and display itself only if the version > 2:8.532, FYI; then it will auto-fix itself once we put a fixed one into intrepid-updates16:51
mptmvo, why are we even asking this question?16:51
mptIf we weren't confident that it's a better design, we shouldn't be doing it at all16:52
mvompt: that is a long story, basicly because we don't want to mess with the users configuration automatically without further questions. and also because people might have shared /home paritions where this change breaks when they boot a older version (or a different version) of linux16:53
mptmvo, hang on, I need to yell at Ted about this, brb16:53
mvompt: pitti and tedg have more background on this, I'm little more than the messenger16:53
pitticjwatson: oh, except that jockey is currently too dumb to do that; but well, we'll need a jockey SRU anyway to add the -modaliases dependency, so it wouldn't actually help16:53
mvompt: haha16:53
stefanlsdAnyone working on bug #27404916:54
ubottuLaunchpad bug 274049 in ubuntu "after an sudo apt-get dist-upgrade in Intrepid I have this problem" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27404916:54
pittimvo: I think it should also say "Please note that after that, your configuration will not work any more with earlier Ubuntu releases."16:54
stefanlsdheh. not the best description :)16:54
cjwatsonmpt: the shared /home thing really is important, and is hard for the software to know about16:54
mvopitti: right, that needs to be in too, maybe mpt can come up with a more positive wording for it16:57
mptok, so it's not a new improved logout button, there is no longer a logout button...16:57
pittithere is, it just became less useful16:57
mptThere is? Why? What does it do?16:58
dholbachstefanlsd: updated the bug16:59
dholbachstefanlsd: nothing life-threatening16:59
stefanlsddholbach, cant log into my X17:00
dholbachstefanlsd: I don't think that's related17:00
seb128mpt: why? because upstream has applets to open the 2 dialogs they use17:01
mptI don't understand17:01
mptTed just told me that the logout button is not an applet, it's compiled into the panel17:02
mptso if we're removing it from the Intrepid version of the panel17:02
mptthen we don't need to change anyone's configuration at all, it just won't appear in Intrepid.17:02
bluefoxicyHey guys17:02
bluefoxicyScott Kaplan is willing to give a statement releasing the Wilson-Kaplan algorithm implementations as LGPL17:03
seb128mpt: we don't want to remove the upstream code because it's creating divergence and some upstream guys like the upstream way and would be complaining if we were doing that in ubuntu17:03
bluefoxicythese work much better than LZO for compressed memory17:03
ogrampt, and what would provide the logout button then ? note that fusa breaks in real multiuser setups like ltsp, most ltsp users i know deliberately remove fusa17:03
seb128mpt: we don't use it but the code is still there17:04
mptogra, the design is that Log Out, Shut Down etc are in the status menu *instead of* a Log Out button.17:04
mptSo asking what the Log Out button is a non-sequitur.17:04
mptWhat the Log Out button should do, rather.17:04
mptseb128, so why don't those upstream guys download and install the upstream version of gnome-panel instead?17:06
mptIf they didn't say anything when Ted posted about our design originally, why are they trying to mess it up now?17:07
seb128mpt: are you suggesting we want to discourage upstream hackers to use ubuntu?17:07
mptseb128, no, I just don't understand what they're proposing.17:07
seb128mpt: there is a miscommunication there, that has nothing to do on the design, we just keep the upstream code available but don't use it17:07
mptI assume they're not proposing that Ubuntu offer two different panel items for logging out.17:08
seb128mpt: upstream doesn't use any session or user switching on their gnome-panel layout17:08
seb128mpt: they don't suggest anything for ubuntu17:08
mvoeven if we compile out the logout button we still need to think about setups without the fusa applet and have a way to auto add it there17:08
seb128mpt: the green man launcher is an upstream object though17:08
mvoe.g. I don't have fusa on my laptop and would be suprised if my logout button disappers17:08
mptmvo, sure, but that's what the upgrade script does, right?17:09
mptit ensures that the menu is there17:09
seb128mpt: the issue there is upgrade, not new installs17:09
seb128mpt: right, because we have been abusing the upstream object before to open a custom ubuntu session dialog17:09
seb128mpt: now we dropped this session dialog so the object opens the upstream dialog17:09
seb128mpt: we need to figure what to do what the object is in the configuration before upgrade17:10
seb128mpt: is that clear?17:10
mptseb128, not show it when running Intrepid.17:11
wtgeewow, the latest round of updates absolutely borked my comp17:12
mpt(But still show it if, for example, using the same home folder with 8.04 or another distribution.)17:12
wtgeeBasically it killed all of gnome17:12
mptmvo, are you able to include illustrations in this question? That would really help17:13
mvompt: sure, give me a sec, I can make a screenshot17:14
seb128mpt: "not show it when running Intrepid.", that's what mvo's tool does basically17:18
mvompt: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/Screenshot-Untitled Window.png17:19
wtgeeDid anyone else just get borked on updates?17:19
mptmvo, http://paste.ubuntu.com/56038/17:20
=== robbiew is now known as robbiew_away
tseliotmpt: try with this link: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/tmp/Screenshot-Untitled%20Window.png17:21
mpttseliot, thanks, I saw it17:22
mpt(Deskbar FTW)17:22
mvompt: the tools we have to show this can't handle inline images currently. sorry for this17:22
mptmvo, oh, what did you mean by including illustrations?17:23
mvompt: I thought you wanted a illustration about what it looks like currently :)17:23
tseliotit won't look as good as in the screen shot but it's doable with debconf17:23
mptmvo, can you at least change the text? "Run this action now" is a bit dire17:24
mptthe button text, I mean17:24
mpt(and what does "Close" do?)17:24
mvompt: that needs code changes, but it can be done.17:24
mvompt: close closes the dialog17:24
mptOk, so no illustrations, but the same text: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56040/17:26
bryceslangasek, cjwatson: regarding the -fglrx issue (bug 247376), if it does come in post-release, there is the question of if we're going to go ahead with an SRU of it.17:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 247376 in ubuntu-release-notes "undefined symbols when trying to load fglrx" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/24737617:30
Keybukbryce: I have a very strange error message when trying to run an X application17:32
mvompt: ok, I start adding code to make the button configurable, but it will be "replace" and "close" I'm afraid. I put this on the list of things to discuss at uds so that we can make the whole thing more flexible17:32
Keybuk"Maximum number of clients reached"17:32
cjwatsonbryce: we should just not promise that we'll do so17:32
cjwatsonbryce: that way we have the flexibility of deciding later17:32
Keybukquest scott% xterm17:32
KeybukMaximum number of clients reachedxterm Xt error: Can't open display: :0.017:32
cody-somervilleKeybuk, I had that the other day17:35
cody-somervilleKeybuk, I had to restart to fix it17:35
Keybukthis is the third of fourth time I've had it in the last few days17:35
mptmvo, ok17:35
Keybuksince upgrading to Intrepid, basically17:35
bryceKeybuk: yep there's a bug open on that; kees had run into it earlier.  Unfortunately not an easy thing to fix17:36
Keybukbryce: why is the maximum number so low?17:37
Keybukxlsclients says I have 28 (if I open one more xtern, I can't run xlsclients)17:37
keesKeybuk: the number is 256; strange that you've hit it so quickly.  I wonder why xlsclients is lying to you so hard.17:38
bryceKeybuk: I don't remember what the exact number is but it's considerably larger than that17:38
brycethousands iirc17:38
bryceok, not quite thousands ;-)17:38
mvomathiaz: merged with slight adjustment (10auto-update -> 20auto-update to win over 10periodic)17:39
keesKeybuk: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/26013817:39
ubottuLaunchpad bug 260138 in xorg-server "Xorg needs client limit raised" [Unknown,Confirmed]17:39
KeybukI was just looking at 26321117:39
Keybukwhich suggests gnome-screensaver is leaking client connections which it's marked as permanent17:39
mathiazmvo: great - thanks.17:39
Keybukxrestop does indeed say I have 255 clients17:40
Keybukwhereas xlsclients clearly lies17:40
Keybukbug #26321117:40
ubottuLaunchpad bug 263211 in gnome-desktop "apps-wont-open-due-to-maximum-clients-reached-error" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26321117:40
KeybukYes, I've been doing some debugging too, and in my setup gnome-screensaver is the culprit as well. Specifically it calls gnome_bg_create_pixmap() (from libgnome-desktop) with root == TRUE, which ends up creating a new connection to the X server, calling XSetCloseDownMode() to change to RetainPermanent, and then disconnecting. And in that case the X server keeps the client data structures around forever.17:40
Keybukslangasek: I'd like to raise this as Release Critical ?17:41
keesKeybuk: ewwww17:41
slangasekthere's a maximum-client limit for X?17:42
cjwatsonKeybuk: I've approved the bug nomination17:42
cjwatsoneww> seconded, I never knew that17:42
KeybukI guess in the 70s you couldn't fit 256 windows in memory :P17:43
Keybukof course, the fact gnome-screensaver is consuming them all after just a day or so is doubleplusbadw17:43
keesslangasek: I meant by "eww" in response to the leak, not the rc-request.  :)17:43
mathiazwhat's the state of autopkgtest? Is this still run?17:44
Keybukbryce: I don't suppose there's a way to tell X to free a client? :p17:45
persiamathiaz, It hadn't been run at the time of the last QA Team meeting.  heno was looking into scheduling a run.17:47
slangasekKeybuk: perhaps it's specific to your screensaver choice?17:48
Keybukslangasek: I'm using the F-Spot Photos screensaver iirc17:48
slangasekI have a theory17:49
mathiazpersia: ok - the dovecot package has some tests. But the ones in qa-regression-testing are newer/better. So I was wondering if the debian/tests/ could just be dropped from the package.17:50
bryceKeybuk: not sure.  I'd use pkill myself ;-)17:50
Keybukbryce: there's no process for these clients17:50
persiamathiaz, I'd rather not drop debian/tests, just because I'm a believer in robust QA, with many different ways of testing stuff.  On the other hand, if those tests are broken...17:50
Keybukslangasek: I just set the screensaver to blank screen, and activated it a bunch of times17:50
Keybukthat seems to be still exhausting the clients17:51
mathiazpersia: well - they're not broken AFAICT.17:51
cjwatsonmathiaz: all other things being equal, it's a better model to have tests in the packages themselves than in some separate repository (that has to be kept in sync as things change, etc.)17:51
cjwatsonmathiaz: so I think we should update debian/tests/ rather than removing it17:51
mathiazjdstrand: kees: ^^?17:52
mathiazdoes the current tests in q-r-t work with autopkgtests?17:52
keesafaik, there is nothing actually _running_ the tests in debian/tests/, so it doesn't do any good there17:52
cjwatsonkees: that would just require starting up autopkgtest again17:52
keesthey're not build-time tests, they're run-time tests, that need all sort of other deps to run, etc17:53
keescjwatson: right -- that's the main question I think -- is autopkgtest operational?17:53
cjwatsonkees: heno would know; I don't see an obvious reason why it shouldn't be17:53
mathiazkees: if autopkgtest is operational should the tests/ in the package be updated to match the one in q-r-t?17:54
jdstrandand, I'd have to check for dovecot specifically, many tests in q-r-t are destructive, and not necessarily written for running outside of a chroot/vm17:54
mathiazkees: or the tests be moved from q-r-t to debian/tests/ ?17:54
mathiazjdstrand: I think that's the environmet autopktest is designed for17:55
keesmathiaz: yes, until there is a strong censensus about how autopkgtest works, I want all the q-r-t tests in one place: the bzr repo.17:55
* jdstrand hasn't used autopkgtest yet17:55
keesmathiaz: the security team uses them for testing things all the way back to dapper, so i'm against splitting stuff out into separate packages.17:55
Keybukbryce, slangasek: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56045/17:57
Keybukgnome-screensaver seems to consume 2 clients every activation17:57
Keybukon my laptop it seems to consume 117:58
keesKeybuk: yeah, confirmed, I see 1 per activiation.17:58
Keybukobvious difference there might be that my desktop has two monitors, so it simply consuming clients twice as fast17:58
cody-somervilleKeybuk, hey, same story here17:59
* cody-somerville has two monitors.17:59
Keybukcody-somerville: have you hit a problem recently of apps just failing to start or open windows?18:01
cody-somervilleKeybuk, yes. It says too many clients or something18:01
cjwatsonkees: what's wrong with keeping both?18:02
cjwatsonkees: as persia said, testing often benefits from multiple approaches18:02
mathiazkees: ok - so it may be useful to teach autopkgtest about the existance of q-r-t.18:02
Keybukbryce: so is there any way to kill things like the following?18:02
superm1Keybuk, I just hit that situation an hour or two ago too18:02
Keybuk44 - <unknown> ( PID:  ?   ):18:02
Keybukres_base      : ox280000018:02
Keybukres_mask      : ox1fffff18:02
keescjwatson: I don't mind keeping both as long as the bzr tree is the primary.18:02
superm1(i've got two monitors here) - so it did happen pretty quick18:02
Keybuksuperm1: how many monitors do you have? :)18:03
mathiazcjwatson: in the case of dovecot, I'd be tempted to just merge the tests from q-r-t in debian/tests/.18:03
KeybukI guess those with one have 200 screensaver activations before they get DoS'd18:03
Keybukwhich is slightly longer than the kernel team take to upload a new kernel right now :p18:03
Keybukthose ricers amongst us with two only have 100 screensaver activations, so get more suck and fail18:03
superm1i've been S3'ing this laptop the last few nights and opting to not do kernel reboots, so that explains things :)18:03
persiakees, Running autopkgtest takes a lot of resources.  We typically only do one or two runs per development cycle.  This one got missed due to various issues, but we'll try to get it run before release.18:04
jdstrandmathiaz: if you are going to do that, also consider test-dovecot.py18:04
jdstrandmathiaz: oh wait, that is 'general'. nm18:05
jdstrand(though it would all have to be updated it seems)18:05
cjwatsonmathiaz: so, JeOS ...18:06
mathiazcjwatson: yes - so I don't know if a new option should be created or existing ones be updated.18:07
seb128Keybuk: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=555701 ?18:07
ubottuGnome bug 555701 in libgnome-desktop "libgnome-desktop:gnome_bg_create_pixmap() leaks pixmaps and X clients" [Normal,Unconfirmed]18:07
Keybukseb128: yes, that's linked on the bug18:07
cjwatsonI think it's important to have a minimal install option that isn't just for VMs18:07
mathiazcjwatson: my goal here is to have a way to boot the -server iso and get a sytem with -virtual and -minimal installed.18:07
bryceKeybuk: let me ask around.18:07
cjwatsonI am OK with there also being a minimal install option for VMs18:07
mathiazcjwatson: aggreed. Could CLI be used for that ?18:07
seb128Keybuk: ah ok, I just read that you mentionned the issue, I didn't know that you knew about the bug ;-)18:07
cjwatsonmathiaz: "Install a command-line system" is only present on non-server CDs, because it is a daft question to ask on a CD where the default install gives you a command line18:08
mathiazcjwatson: ok - so cli.seed is just for the alternate cd.18:09
cjwatsonwhy not just "Install a minimal system" and "Install a minimal virtual machine"18:09
mathiazcjwatson: WFM.18:09
cjwatsonmathiaz: turning off standard is a bit harder18:10
Keybukit appears this code is unchanged since its merge into libgnome-desktop18:10
mathiazcjwatson: how was this done in Hardy JeOS ?18:10
cjwatsonmathiaz: tasksel, by design, generally tries to keep standard installed. Can we leave it there for "Install a minimal system"?18:10
cjwatsonmathiaz: HACK OF DEATH18:10
mathiazcjwatson: ok - and it would be too late in the release cycle to implement a similar hack for intrepid?18:11
cjwatsonmathiaz: actually, I'm not sure how it was done18:11
cjwatsonmathiaz: don't wanna18:12
cjwatsonmathiaz: oh, we did it by having a separate CD that didn't include standard18:12
cjwatsonmathiaz: so that won't work when merged into the server CD. It sucked as an approach anyway18:12
persiaDoing it right would mean fiddling with debootstrap, wouldn't it?18:12
cjwatsonno, why?18:13
cjwatsondebootstrap doesn't install standard18:13
Keybukok, this wasn't a one-liner that introduced this18:13
persiaOh.  Hm.18:13
Keybukthese gnome-screensaver functions didn't even exist in hardy18:13
ograKeybuk, note that you might also still have xscreensaver installed18:14
ogra(which supersedes gss, unless that code changed)18:15
KeybukI do not18:15
cjwatsonmathiaz: I'll poke tasksel to export a new interface to make this work18:15
ograKeybuk, manually removed it ? it was pulled in until recently18:15
Keybukogra: no, only -data and -glx are installed18:15
mathiazcjwatson: is this something that can be implemented for intrepid?18:15
cjwatsonmathiaz: yes18:15
ograKeybuk, ah, lucky you ... u-m just removed it for me right now18:16
ograi had it since upgrading18:16
mathiazcjwatson: great. I'll work on adding the -virtual kernel packages to the server-ship seed.18:16
Keybuku-m may have removed it for me when I upgraded to Intrepid last week?18:16
ograit didnt with yesterdays run for me18:16
ograthe fix must be new18:16
cjwatsonmathiaz: "work on"? is it hard? :)18:16
mathiazcjwatson: oh no. It just needs to be done :D18:17
cjwatsonmathiaz: remove the jeos seed while you're at it18:17
cjwatsonmathiaz: is this i386 only, or amd64 too?18:17
cjwatsonlinux-virtual | | intrepid/universe | amd64, i38618:17
cjwatsonapparently both. the jeos seed only had it for i38618:17
mathiazcjwatson: right.18:18
cjwatsonmathiaz: is there a bug number for this?18:18
mathiazcjwatson: no. Should I file one?18:19
cjwatsonno need, was just wondering18:19
ograwow, cool ...18:21
* ogra just noticed #ubuntu-meeting18:21
ograthat makes me like utf818:21
ScottKInteresting to watch even if I can't understand a bit of it.18:21
Keybukwhy does their writing change when you highlight it in X-Chat?18:22
ograLTS vs RTL setting ?18:23
Keybuk"Add support for showing the desktop background behind the unlock dialog."18:24
Keybukseems to be the culprit commit18:24
Keybukseb128: adding a proposed patch to bug #26321118:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 263211 in gnome-desktop "apps-wont-open-due-to-maximum-clients-reached-error" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26321118:30
Keybukdoes it look sane to you?18:30
seb128Keybuk: looking18:35
seb128Keybuk: looks fine to me if it's working for you just upload ;-)18:38
KeybukI certainly don't get the leak18:39
KeybukI don't get the background image behind the lock dialog either18:39
Keybukbut then I didn't before18:39
Keybukand it's not clear to me from the code how that is supposed to work :p18:39
seb128Keybuk: I'm not sure either but I pinged upstream on IRC18:40
KeybukI ping'd jon over twitter, since he wrote the patch18:40
Keybukk, uploaded18:41
ograover twitter ... heh18:41
seb128Keybuk: I pinged soren on #control-center asking him to have a look at the bug but it doesn't seem to be around18:41
Keybukogra: I don't think that I have his cell number18:41
seb128Keybuk: ok, upstream bug moved to gnome-screensaver now and the comment suggest your change is correct18:48
Keybukyeah, that's what I thought18:48
Keybukit looked like g-ss just really wanted a pixmap with the background image, and he passed root=TRUE "because that sounded right"18:48
Keybukwhen root=TRUE seems to really mean "this will be the real and only root window, so make it specially"18:48
dholbachjames_w: will you update launchpadlib before release? :)18:52
james_wdholbach: done :-)18:53
bryceKeybuk:  try  e.g., xkill -id 0x280000019:00
lycannyc-workhey everyone, i just ran the last update and my gdm doesnt have gnome in the sessions so when i log in it just stays in the brown screen19:09
ubottuThe official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org19:16
ubottuIntrepid Ibex is the code name for Ubuntu 8.10, due October 30th, 2008 - Warning lots of broken software between now and October 30th! - Use #ubuntu+1 for support, *NOT* #ubuntu19:17
_Zeus_my bad19:17
pittislangasek: gimp unwebkitified19:23
pittislangasek: if you have a minute, can you please look at my dbus and coreutils (hardy) SRUs? I don't want to process my own uploads19:24
pittikees, james_w: v4l promoted, go wild19:27
james_wthanks pitti19:27
pittiwell, as wild as you can get with basically no buildd power :)19:27
ScottKpitti: I just noticed there is still a restricted-manager-kde file in my /etc/xdg/autostart (along with the jockey-kde one).  Shouldn't that have been removed at some poiint?19:35
keespitti: saweeet, thanks19:38
hwildehelp I need to spike my cpu,   got benchmarks?19:41
slytherinwhy is cups-pdf no more in main or installed by default in intrepid?19:42
=== stefanlsd_ is now known as stefanlsd
loolbryce: i'm pushing a new xorg with a trivial drop of deps of video-all on lpia19:54
brycelool, ok19:54
slangasekpitti: unwebkitified> awesome!19:57
slangasekpitti: yes, looking at those SRUs, thanks19:57
Keybuklool: nice passphrase19:57
loolKeybuk: don't mock git19:58
Keybukwhy use simple revision numbers when a SHA-1 will do19:59
NCommanderKeybuk, talking about monotone/git?19:59
NCommanderScottK, I looked at openexr20:00
NCommanderScottK, its not pretty (and not a problem with openexr itself)20:00
ScottKNCommander: I saw debian disabled the test suite on some archs.20:01
NCommanderScottK, the issue is threading20:01
NCommanderSomething in glibc broke on 2.8 that causes threads in some situations it seems to not properly lock and respect mutexs20:01
* NCommander had a similar issue with glib and trying to compile it20:01
NCommanderIt *might* just be my HPPA box, but looking very closely at the test results, it works fine without threads, or threads that aren't working together20:02
NCommanderScottK, do you just want to kill the test suite since the issue isn't with openexr specifically? (the test failures go away on glibc 2.7)20:03
ScottKNCommander: It seems a popular solution, but I'm not qualified to judge.20:04
* ScottK summons the spirit of lamont for an opinion.20:04
NCommanderScottK, have you prepared the necessary sacrifices?20:05
ScottKNCommander: I gave a user Postfix advice on #ubuntu-server this morning.20:05
* NCommander reads from the book of HPPA20:06
NCommanderThou should give advice on sendmail, the most evilest of SMTP daemons. Only then shall the first sacrifice be met20:06
ScottKWell I think friends don't let their friends use Sendmail.20:07
persiaErm.  sendmail isn't evil, it just wants to be placated before it will play nice.20:07
NCommanderpersia, go write a config file without using M4 macros, then tell me that again with a straight face20:07
persiaActually, I was opposed to the whole transition to m4 for sendmail config, and stopped being a mail server admin about at that point, as much as possible.20:10
stgraberslangasek: I'll need a new freeze exception for LTSP, fixing regression from pre-FF that we have now fixed upstream (and were missing in the previous upload)20:10
stgraberslangasek: I'm test building, I'll then file a bug for it20:10
slangasekstgraber: is this just fixing the one bug?20:11
slangasekif so, please just upload20:11
NCommanderpersia, you must LIKE pulling teeth. Sendmail's config format makes my brain hurt (its like COBOL. THere is only one sendmail config and its edited and modified millions of times)20:12
stgraberslangasek: 3 regressions fix, one bug fix and two small upstream changes (and a mythbuntu packaging fix): http://paste.ubuntu.com/56084/20:13
slangasekstgraber: what do you mean by "pre-FF regression", exactly? "regression that happened before FF", "regression in the current version relative to the version present at FF"...?20:14
stgraberslangasek: something that was fixed before FF but we broke with the last upload20:14
stgraberbasically these changes were done in .diff.gz and didn't get upstream so were missing in the last upload20:15
slangasekstgraber: from the changelog alone I can't say for sure "this shouldn't need a freeze exception", so please go ahead and file a bug if you believe that's best20:15
ndubehello all20:16
ndubei am currently attempting to install 8.10 beta from the alt cd20:16
ndubeThe installer does not see any of my HD if I have more than one plugged in. If I have only one HD plugged in, the installer see's it fine. Any Ideas?20:16
stgraberslangasek: ok, will file a bug and attach the diff.20:17
_Zeus_!intrepid | ndube20:18
ubottundube: Intrepid Ibex is the code name for Ubuntu 8.10, due October 30th, 2008 - Warning lots of broken software between now and October 30th! - Use #ubuntu+1 for support, *NOT* #ubuntu20:18
ndubesorry, wrong irc20:18
slangasekpitti: I don't see a coreutils SRU in the queue20:23
stgraberslangasek: bug 28141520:24
ubottuLaunchpad bug 281415 in ltsp "[UVFe] ltsp (5.1.25 -> 5.1.27)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28141520:24
NCommanderScottK, what's your interest in openexr anyway?20:32
ScottKNCommander: It's a broken build-dep of kde4libs so I need it to build before I can start to get KDE4 building again on hppa.20:42
james_wkees: hey, do you have hardware to test these patches?20:44
lamontScottK: sup?20:45
ScottKlamont: openexr is FTBFS on hppa.  NCommander says it's broken threading stuff.20:46
ScottKlamont: So it looks like Debian gave up on the openexr test suite on several archs and so the question is would that be reasonable for hppa.20:46
* ScottK looks at NCommander for details on his threading findings.20:47
lamontit's kde... :-)20:47
NCommanderlamont, the test suite works fine until it tries to use multiple threads to write out files20:47
NCommanderlamont, probably some mutex fun. I suspect its a glibc problem since it doesn't happen with glibc 2.7, nor does this same behavior manifest on any other architecture where the test suite is run20:47
ScottKlamont: Yeah, I'm trying to do my bit to help out ports and get KDE built on hppa.20:47
NCommanderlamont, I did manage to get a HPPA box from HP with Ubuntu, so I'm helping with porting issues as well ;-)20:48
keesjames_w: yuppers20:49
keesjames_w: that's why I originally started the thread on u-devel.  I wanted to turn "ack, my webcam isn't working" into something constructive.  :)20:50
james_wkees: great, I'll defer to the person who is actually able to test them20:50
keesjames_w: that's why I started with xawtv: it's small and easy to test.20:50
james_wheh :-)20:50
directhexNCommander, porting work? having fun, i hope? :p20:50
lamontNCommander: NPTL/hppa haz issues20:51
NCommanderlamont, that's putting it mildly. It would have been nice if they stayed with linuxthreads until the NPTL bugs were ironed out20:51
directhexNCommander, feel free to fix http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=240272 :)20:51
ubottuDebian bug 240272 in mono "mono_0.30.2-1(hppa/unstable): FTBFS: needs porting work for hppa" [Serious,Open]20:51
NCommandermono is in PAS20:51
NCommander(although there was a WIP port for hppa at some point)20:52
directhexman, 0.30.2? that bug be OLD20:52
NCommanderdirecthex, and something like that has to be done in upstream, since porting mono requires writing a new HAL layer20:52
NCommanderWhy do we need such an antique?!20:52
* NCommander was thinking 1.32 or something20:52
directhexi don't know if anyone's tested since20:53
directhexi was just working on mono bugs today. 6 debian bugs should be closed within hours, and then i'll do a merge20:54
lamontNCommander: there was a push to move all of ubuntu to NPTL with edgy... that'd be why there's no edgy/hppa or feisty/hppa20:54
NCommanderlamont, even the debian dudes weren't that crazy, NPTL is only just available with lenny, and I didn't think they were making the transition until squeeze20:55
NCommanderI knew there were threading issues with NPTL/hppa, but I didn't realize they were THAT ba20:55
lamontthey knew they could make the transition partially because ubuntu had already20:56
lamontwell, it's probably just one bug. :-(20:56
lamontOTOH, it seems to be in a very popular place, whereever it is20:56
NCommanderlamont, pthread_join()20:57
NCommanderI was able to get a consistent hang when joining thread without fail20:57
* NCommander notes that didn't happen on the buildds20:57
lamontsee: popular20:57
directhexpopular. on hppa? humour!20:59
lamontdirecthex: if all 4 of us use it, it's ubiquitous.20:59
NCommanderlamont, I also got an ia64 box ;-)21:00
NCommander(there is a port that see absolutely no love at all)21:00
directhexlamont, i was about to ask if you'd run an unofficial hardy buildd on it for me to use for my third party repo, then i remembered the past few minutes & what's on my repo...21:00
directhexNCommander, i love itanium!21:00
cjwatsonmathiaz: I've uploaded the unattended-upgrades/enable_auto_updates installer integration21:00
mathiazcjwatson: awesome ! thanks :)21:01
* NCommander drops his RS/6000 on directhex 21:01
NCommanderI can understand mono21:01
NCommanderBut ia64 is the end result if i386 raped powerpc, and powerpc didn't get an abortion.21:02
directhexjms@orac:~> mono --version | grep Arch21:02
directhexArchitecture:  ia6421:02
lamontdirecthex: give me xen on hppa with a commitment and history of support, and I'll get you a an hppa ppa buildd21:02
directhexlamont, yeah, about that... :/21:03
lamontNCommander: ia64 is the result of the hppa engineers meeting with intel engineers and coming up with what hp's engineers thought hppa should have been originally21:03
NCommanderlamont, I dunno, the one look I took at the ia64 instruction set made me think of my x86 ASM book21:04
directhexjms@orac:~> grep -c IA-64 /proc/cpuinfo21:04
NCommanderThe real problem with that architecture is the mythical compilers that can optimize amazingly well21:04
directhexjms@orac:~> icc --version | head -121:04
directhexicc (ICC) 10.1 2008031221:04
NCommanderdirecthex, obviously your not too familar with the long development history of the ia64 architecture ;-)21:05
* lamont kinda lived it21:06
directhexNCommander, i'm aware of performance benchmarks, and i know this box did to the competition what spielberg/lucas did to indianna jones21:06
NCommanderraped and killed it?21:06
lamontdirecthex: originally or lately?21:06
NCommanderoh wait, that was star wars21:06
directhexlamont, lately21:06
directhexNCommander, no, indy too21:06
NCommanderI could watch the 4th one without puking21:07
NCommanderlamont, BTW, the test suite on HPPA is nice and pretty with glibc21:07
NCommanderI can see why its disabled by default21:09
persiaWait, the *gcc* testsuite is disabled by default on hppa?  How can that be safe?21:11
NCommanderpersia, glibc21:11
NCommanderpersia, and yes it is21:11
NCommanderand no it isn't.21:11
persiaErr, yes, but even so.21:11
persiaOh, good.21:11
NCommanderpersia, glibc FTBFS during its test suite21:11
persiaThat's better.21:11
NCommander(well, technically it hung, but)21:11
slytherinhi, can anyone please tell me why cups-pdf was moved to universe in intrepid?21:11
directhexslytherin, a deal with microsoft means ubuntu now only supports the microsoft XPS format instead of PDF!21:12
slytherindirecthex: what deal, no one asked me before making it. :-P21:13
directhexslytherin, sorry, there was beer, and y'know...21:13
jdstrandslangasek: do you have a reference as to why ruby1.9 is in main? I can't seem to find one, and http://www.ruby-lang.org/en/downloads/ seems to consider 1.9 'Developer version (experimental)'21:14
slangasekjdstrand: only by traversing germinate output21:15
NCommanderdirecthex, you remind me of Miguel de Icaza21:15
jdstrandslangasek: that should be something I can do, no? (I don't know how, but can learn)21:15
directhexNCommander, miguel's a nice guy. with me, you need to filter through a few layers of sarcasm to see the point of what i'm saying.21:16
* NCommander watches his sarcasm meter explode21:16
slangasekjdstrand: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/ubuntu.intrepid/all , look for ruby1.921:16
slangaseklooks like we blame rrdtool21:17
jdstrandslangasek: thanks21:17
directhexNCommander, i'm currently fighting the most crack-smoking example of debian bickering i could have imagined. it's making me tetchy21:18
slytherindirecthex: still dealing with the moonlight ITP?21:20
directhexslytherin, the package is ready & functional in its current form (and designed for syncability), but we're leaving it a little for the bunfight over removing anything tangentially related to a software patent somewhere in the world from debian21:22
directhexii  libmoon0       0.8.1+dfsg-1   open source clone of Microsoft Silverlight21:23
NCommanderdidrocks, link?21:24
NCommanderoh, moonlight?21:24
NCommanderYeah well, Debian is dyin. Netcraft confirms it */meme*21:24
directhexNCommander, netcraft? hells, that's it then :|21:25
directhexNCommander, first they came for BSD...21:25
NCommanderthen Debian21:25
NCommanderThen Vista21:25
persiaDebian is *so* not dying.  Debian is more lively and dynamic now than in some time.21:25
directhexNCommander, explain the "BSD is dying" meme to persia21:25
* NCommander uses his favor you owed me on fixing the mono segfaults on this21:26
NCommanderdirecthex, please explain the "BSD is dying" meme to persia ;-)21:26
stgraberslangasek: I just updated the bug to include a new upstream including one more bugfix (and no additional feature this time :))21:26
directhexpersia, slashdot is full of links which are all pretty much like the following: http://bsd.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=228247&cid=1849513721:26
NCommanderNeat, I didn't even have to sudo it!21:26
directhexpersia, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot#Culture21:27
directhexpersia, "netcraft confirms * is dying" is a meme.21:27
NCommanderpersia, generally speaking, when Something is Dying. Netcraft confirms it, it means that pretty much the opposite is true21:27
* NCommander notes Lenny is pretty kick ass. Now only if they would release it ;-)21:27
directhexNCommander, if the wingnuts actually manage to get their "remove all patent-encumbered software of any kind from the archive" GR approved...21:28
NCommanderSo there goes FAT32 support21:28
directhexand double clicking. and gecko.21:29
NCommanderBooting off a CD, JFS2 (IBM did release that one to the community though)21:29
ScottKdirecthex: If they do that, there won't be any left.21:29
NCommanderAnd it still won't be free to the FSF :-)21:29
directhexNCommander, releasing things to the community is a trap. don't you know?21:29
NCommanderScottK, well, thats the current discussion on d-devel21:29
directhexNCommander, fsf's gobuntu installs mono by default :)21:29
bytor4232Should startupmanager be included as a base (k/x)ubuntu install?  It seems like a very useful package.21:29
* NCommander notes the FSF's crack pipe has to have some serious good **** in it for them to consider Debian non-free21:30
directhexNCommander, firmware blobs! and fonts!21:30
NCommanderNot in Debian21:30
NCommanderBoth are in non-free21:30
NCommanderThat's why my laptop runs Ubuntu21:30
jcristaudirecthex: there's no such GR...21:30
directhexjcristau, not yet. read your d-devel.21:30
jcristaui did. i ^Red that thread21:31
NCommanderdirecthex, I personally think the FSF got pissed since Debian declares GDFL non-free21:31
slytherinNCommander: directhex: the discussion is becoming off-topic here. :-)21:31
directhexslytherin, sorry21:31
cjwatsonNCommander: disputes between the FSF and Debian over freeness go back about a decade before that21:31
cjwatson(I was already typing, figured I'd finish ...)21:32
NCommandercjwatson, point retracted :-)21:32
LaneyWhich VNC server is enabled by the Prefs->Remote Desktop applet? I'd like to enable it from the commandline21:32
slytherinLaney: vino21:33
slangasekdirecthex: um, there's no GR on the table for removing "all patent-encumbered software"21:34
Laneyslytherin: Ah, I thought that was the client. Thanks21:34
slangasekand why would you think such a GR would pass, anyway?21:34
directhexslangasek, yet. and because TEH PATENTZ!21:34
slytherinLaney: client is vinagre21:35
LaneyJust found that out ;)21:35
slangasekdirecthex: let me rephrase.  "why do you hold such a low opinion of the Debian community that you think such an insane GR would pass?" :P21:35
directhexslangasek, i don't, i like to mock21:35
directhexslangasek, look at it this way. on the scale of hypocrisy, what's the single worst package you could be maintainer for if you were arguing that a browser plugin cloning a non-free  one, which doesn't support all sites & is therefore worthless, shouldn't be permitted into the archive?21:36
slangasekdirecthex: SIGVERB grammar overflow21:37
* slangasek grows the stack and manages to parse, but still doesn't know the answer21:38
directhexslangasek, guy arguing that moonlight should be forbidden from entering the debian archive. package maintainer. argues that it clones a closed browser plugin (which is Bad(tm)) and doesn't work on all sites ever (and is therefore worthless). which is the most facepalm-worthy package he could maintain?21:38
directhexpersia, gnash. but close.21:39
persiaCould someone please give-back compiz-fusion-plugins-extra on lpia ?22:08
ScottKpersia: Done22:12
persiaScottK, Thank you.22:13
ScottKNo problem.22:13
ScottKNCommander: Did you come to any conclusion about openexr?22:14
slytherinany archive admins around?22:15
persiaslytherin, Generally, you'll do better to request the thing you want, rather than scaring them away like that :)22:16
slytherinpersia: nothing new, same old move to universe bugs. :-)22:17
wgrantsuperm1: I'm fairly sure it won't - I know exactly why one of the bugs happens, and the other one is probably a kernel bug.23:23
superm1wgrant, did you already punt it by rtg?23:23
wgrantsuperm1: I haven't, but I will when I see him.23:24
wgrantsuperm1: The lots and lots of keypresses seem to be caused by X never seeing the key released, thus invoking key repeat.23:24
wgrantAnd I was advised it was probably a kernel bug.23:25
superm1wgrant, OK, well if you don't get a chance to at some point or get busy with something else, leave the notes on a bug and at least point me at it and I'll bring it up as I talk to rtg weekly23:25
ScottKI can tell OpenOffice.org has caught up with MS Office.  OOO Writer's autocorrect feature is really annoying me.23:29
wgrantsuperm1: Kernel freeze is unfortunately close :(23:31
wgrantWhen is your next talk with him?23:31
superm1so probably if you talk to him sooner, that's better23:32
wgrantOK, I'll poke him when I see him.23:32
wgrantAssuming he is the right person..23:32
superm1well for reproducing on dell hardware he should be23:33
superm1he has most interesting platforms23:33
wgrantAh, good.23:33
ScottKsuperm1: Any luck on solid-bluetooth yet?23:35
superm1ScottK, the API changes are rather large.  I'm not sure i'll be able to make enough intelligent changes in a timely fashion.  it would really be a task better for someone more familiar with solid23:36
superm1ScottK, I'll keep futzing, but I do have other tasks i'm working on concurrently23:36
ScottKsuperm1: I get the impression that upstream isn't excited about dealing with it at the moment.  Unfortunately we don't have anyone on the KDE side that understands the API changes.23:37
ScottKsuperm1: Perhaps if we could find someone who understands solid to pair your with, between the two of you, you could get to something more than what we have now?23:37
superm1ScottK, well I'm catching up on all the API changes too, but that would probably be useful.23:38
superm1ScottK, what i'm wondering is what the F10 folks are planning on doing about this23:38
superm1ScottK, given they're still broke...23:38
ScottKI'm not sure they're aware.23:38
ScottKThe one Fedora KDE person that hangs out with us didn't know of problems.23:39
ScottKsuperm1: Would you consider idling in #kubuntu-devel and let's see who turns up?23:41

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