[01:32] <Bernmeister> Hi all...I've writting a couple of open-source java apps which I've released under Windows (using ant and then NSIS to build/package).  I've recently moved across to Ubuntu and I'm finding it difficult to find a guide on going from building a Jar to creating a Deb which I believe is the equivalent of a Windows installer.  Any ideas/suggestions/tutorials?  Ideally I'd like to build the DEB (or whatever) and make that available 
[01:37] <porthose> Bernmeister: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[01:39] <Bernmeister> porthose: Thanks.  Does this also apply to Java though?  It seems to me there's a big difference between compling C and makeing a package to just "wrapping up a jar file"...
[01:42] <porthose> Bermmeister:  yes it will work for java, php, python and others
[01:45] <fta> persia, https://edge.launchpad.net/fennec
[01:47] <Bernmeister> Thanks.
[01:49] <persia> fta, Thanks.
[01:49] <persia> lool, ^^
[01:50] <persia> Anyone know BTS well?  Is there a way to specify a block when filing a bug, or do I need to wait for a reply, and then send a message to control@b.d.o?
[01:51] <slangasek> block is one command that you have to wait for the bug number on
[01:51] <persia> Oh well.  Thanks.
[01:56] <fta> persia, it occurs that fennec now requires xulrunner 1.9.1, which is still not in ubuntu: see bug 274187
[01:57] <persia> fta, The discussions I saw were more about Jaunty, for which I suspect there's no real question.
[06:38] <AnAnt> Hello, is there something to add or someone to subscribe to this bug #281451  ?
[06:39] <persia> AnAnt, generally #ubuntu-bugs is a better place for that sort of question, but it looks close to right to me.
[06:40] <AnAnt> persia: oh, how are you ?
[06:41] <AnAnt> persia: I made a new sl-modem package btw
[06:41] <persia> AnAnt, Cool.  Did it get uploaded?  Does it work?
[06:42] <persia> Does it integrate with ALSA cleanly now?
[06:42] <AnAnt> persia: it works on mom's laptop, and some other guys laptop
[06:42] <AnAnt> persia: yes with ALSA
[06:42] <persia> amd64?
[06:42] <AnAnt> persia: I didn't try with slusb/slamr
[06:42] <AnAnt> persia: well, it did work in amd64 before I think
[06:42] <AnAnt> persia: I don't have an amd64 to test
[06:43] <persia> AnAnt, I can test.  Is it in the archive?
[06:43] <AnAnt> persia: anyways, I sent to all bug reports in Debian & Ubuntu to give me feedback, no one replied except one guy, but he didn't close a bug, just said that it works fine with him
[06:43] <AnAnt> persia: mentors.debian.net
[06:44] <persia> AnAnt, I'll give it a shot.  I suspect it's too late for intrepid, but I can at least test, and make sure it gets into Jaunty.
[06:44] <AnAnt> jump on the rabbit
[06:45] <AnAnt> or with it, dunno
[06:45]  * persia likes to ride on the back while holding the antlers
[06:48]  * ScottK-laptop wonders if anyone from motu-release will be at UDS.
[06:49] <persia> I hope so.  I'd like to have a session about release planning.  If not, maybe something can be scheduled for #ubuntu-meeting?
[06:50]  * ScottK-laptop isn't going.  Dunno about the others.
[06:50] <persia> Are you likely to be available via VoIP and IRC?
[06:50] <StevenK> ScottK-laptop: But it's in the same country!
[06:51] <persia> StevenK, That makes the flight *less* pleasant.
[06:51] <persia> (but shorter)
[06:51] <StevenK> How so?
[06:51] <ScottK-laptop> Not really.  California is almost like a country of it's own.
[06:52] <ScottK-laptop> It's not a good time for me to take a week of vacation.
[06:52] <persia> StevenK, seat size, pay for water, no external snacks, 6 hour runway delays, etc.  The headlines for domestic air services in that country make for amusing reading.
[06:52] <StevenK> persia: Or crying, if you happen to live there
[06:53] <ScottK-laptop> persia: That's mainly a matter of picking the well run airlines (there are approximately two).
[06:53] <StevenK> persia: I always get amazed by people coming up to the counter and saying "Hi! Do you have any space for me on the flight? No, okay, thanks!"
[06:53] <persia> StevenK, That's how I prefer to fly.
[06:54] <StevenK> persia: Why?
[06:55] <ScottK-laptop> Actually the way the economy seems to be going there should be plenty of room the planes.
[06:55] <persia> StevenK, Saves thought, and costs about half as much.  I rarely spend more than about 2 hours in an airport, except when I have a reservation for some unknown reason.
[06:55] <superm1> persia, really it's half as much?
[06:57] <persia> superm1, Depends on the airline, but often, as the seats would go unpaid otherwise, so you basically get charged the lowest possible fare.
[06:57] <Hobbsee> persia: there's going to be some release-type sessions globally, i think.
[06:57] <persia> Trick is not to try to fly on busy days.  I like Tuesdays and Thursdays, personally.
[06:58] <persia> Hobbsee, Yes, but that doesn't help.  As MOTU, we need to have some plan, as this release was a mess, and everything feels like recovery, rather than trying to accomplish anything.
[06:59] <Hobbsee> persia: that's true.  Found out how to register sessions and such, yet?
[07:00] <persia> Hobbsee, No idea.
[07:00]  * persia doesn't tend to be a session driver much anyway, just loud
[07:03] <wgrant> Don't we normally find out that sessions exist about an hour before the event?
[07:04] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i'm really hoping that *doesn't* happen this time, as that's hwo i got landed in 2 sessions that i had to be in, simultaneously, last time.
[07:05] <wgrant> Hobbsee: At least with VoIP one can almost be in two places at once.
[07:06] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Let me know when your test is done.
[07:06] <Hobbsee> wgrant: heh
[07:06] <NCommander> ScottK, done
[07:07] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: Good, bad, indifferent?
[07:07] <NCommander> builds fine on amd64
[07:07] <AnAnt> persia: do you think I should use this new dkms for sl-modem-source ?
[07:07] <ScottK-laptop> OK.  I'll upload it then.  We'll see.
[07:07] <AnAnt> does dkms replace module-assistant?
[07:08] <ScottK-laptop> NCommander: uploaded.  Thanks.
[07:08] <persia> AnAnt, For Ubuntu, it would make things simpler, because you wouldn't have to chase kernel ABIs.  For Debian, I don't know.
[07:08] <AnAnt> debian doesn't have dkms yet
[07:08] <persia> DKMS is similar but different than module-assistant
[07:09] <persia> Right, then you'd need a fork, or some fancy trickery in debian/rules
[07:09] <AnAnt> tseliot: Hello, I responded you on bug #267217
[07:09] <AnAnt> how do I use dkms ?
[07:10] <tseliot> AnAnt: let me have a look
[07:10] <AnAnt> tseliot: thanks
[07:11] <tseliot> AnAnt: the driver seems to work well on your computer
[07:11] <tseliot> what's the problem?
[07:53] <stefanlsd> Can someone nominate for release for me please - bug #279030
[07:55] <Hobbsee> ugh!  SRU people, please fix https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/shadow/+bug/238755
[07:55] <Hobbsee> that's why my cron isn't running.. gah!
[07:56] <Hobbsee> !release
[09:17] <lool> persia: thx
[10:25] <DktrKranz> doko, re bug 268260, further investigations revealed libgtkada2 and libtemplates-parser need to be adjusted together with asis to have dependant packages to be built. I'd push those three first and then, once compiled, the remaining ones (they are not linked one another), sounds reasonable for you?
[10:26] <doko> DktrKranz: sure, just make sure that you update the build dependencies so that the buildds can sort this out themself
[10:26] <DktrKranz> Yes, thanks.
[11:10] <gaspa> saivann: can i bother you just a moment? i'm guessing how works an usplash function ( draw_status() ) ...
[11:11] <gaspa> can you explain in two words how should it works?
[11:12]  * persia suspects that two words is "just works" and that more will be required :)
[11:14] <Syntux> Good day
[11:14] <gaspa> persia: :D
[11:35] <BUGabundo1> hi MOTUs
[11:36] <BUGabundo1> can some one show some love for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hedgewars/+bug/248087/ ?
[11:36] <BUGabundo1> good morning ogra
[11:37] <Laney> BUGabundo1: You should subscribe the sponsors if you want sponsorship
[11:37] <Laney> (also that will need a FFe now)
[11:37] <BUGabundo1> no
[11:37] <BUGabundo1> for jaunty
[11:37] <BUGabundo1> it may not get auto sinc
[11:38] <BUGabundo1> at least it wasn't for Intrepid
[11:38] <geser> BUGabundo1: it's a little bit early for sync requests for jaunty
[11:38] <BUGabundo1> its to late for Ibex, unless for backports
[11:38] <BUGabundo1> geser: ibex backports then?
[11:38] <BUGabundo1> debian packages run flawlessly on my system
[11:39] <geser> BUGabundo1: you need it first in jaunty for a backport
[11:39] <Laney> It was autosynced
[11:39] <BUGabundo1> bah
[11:39] <Laney> But the versions that bug talks about were after DIF
[11:39] <BUGabundo1> let me check its history
[11:39] <geser> BUGabundo1: currently the package has no Ubuntu changes so it gets auto-synced for jaunty -> no sync requst needed
[11:39] <BUGabundo1> I was told it didn't get auto sinc
[11:39] <ogra> hey BUGabundo1
[11:40] <Laney> BUGabundo1: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hedgewars
[11:40]  * BUGabundo1 opening
[11:40] <Laney> Look at all the intrepid versions...
[11:40] <BUGabundo1> Ubuntu Archive Auto-Sync < archive@ubuntu.com>   Fri,  20 Jun 2008 10:24:19 +0100
[11:40] <BUGabundo1> I guess it was auto synced
[11:41] <BUGabundo1> that's what you get when you trust ppl info, instead you check for your self
[11:41] <Laney> I guess whoever told you doesn't know about DIF
[11:42] <BUGabundo1> so now is uber late to get it into Ibex?
[11:42] <Laney> pretty much
[11:42] <BUGabundo1> no FFe so late, right?
[11:42] <BUGabundo1> even dough it has no changes ?
[11:43] <geser> you need now a very,very good reason for a FFe
[11:43] <Laney> This seems like the perfect backport candidate
[11:43] <BUGabundo1> peatty... its such a nice game, and the new version has several new weapons
[11:43] <Laney> latest crack
[11:43] <BUGabundo1> I love that crazy H'day cake weapon
[11:44] <AnAnt> Hello, can someone review the freeze exception request: #281680
[11:44] <BUGabundo1> geser: aint new weapons a very very very good reason ?
[11:44] <BUGabundo1> eheheh
[11:44] <AnAnt> bug #281680
[11:44] <geser> BUGabundo1: you need to convince the ~motu-release team not me :)
[11:44] <BUGabundo1> eheh
[11:45] <BUGabundo1> need to get 2 of them that like to play it... bah
[11:45] <BUGabundo1> now, where can I find that info on them ...
[11:45]  * BUGabundo1 ask geser for ~motu-release team direction
[11:46] <geser> BUGabundo1: https://launchpad.net/~motu-release/+members
[11:46] <slytherin> BUGabundo1: http://launchpad.net/~motu-release
[11:46] <BUGabundo1> thanks
[11:47] <AnAnt> should I add any other tags to it ?
[11:47]  * slytherin feels ubuntu should stop putting gnome-games on CD.
[11:47] <persia> slytherin, And put what?  sgt-puzzles?
[11:47] <AnAnt> or modify the status ?
[11:48] <slytherin> persia: No. put wesnoth. :-P
[11:48] <slytherin> just kidding.
[11:48] <slytherin> there have to be some better games than the ones in gnome games.
[11:48] <persia> heh
[11:48] <AnAnt> persia: did you try sl-modem ?
[11:49] <persia> AnAnt, Not yet.
[11:49] <slytherin> I mean who plays solitaire and tetris these days?
[11:49] <iulian> slytherin: Yes, but some of them are bigger than the current ones.
[11:49] <geser> AnAnt: subscribing the right sponsoring team would be good
[11:49] <AnAnt> geser: I subscribed motu-release
[11:50] <iulian> slytherin: Have a look at popcon.
[11:50] <iulian> Ah
[11:50] <slytherin> AnAnt: that is wrong team
[11:50] <slytherin> AnAnt: ubuntu-universe-sponsors is the right one.
[11:50] <AnAnt> slytherin: I read that in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[11:51] <geser> AnAnt: motu-release is only for FFe and it doesn't need on, just simple sponsoring
[11:51] <slytherin> AnAnt: is this new version then?
[11:51] <AnAnt> geser: this bug is a FFe
[11:51] <geser> it's neither a new upstream version nor a new feature but just a bug fix
[11:51] <geser> AnAnt: why it's a FFe?
[11:52] <AnAnt> slytherin: I thought bug fix should be in FFe
[11:52] <slytherin> this is a ubuntu native package right?
[11:52] <geser> you don't need a FFe for a bug fix
[11:52] <AnAnt> slytherin: yup
[11:53] <AnAnt> actualy I didn't subscribe motu-release, I assigned to motu-release
[11:53] <AnAnt> should I assign to no one ?
[11:53] <slytherin> AnAnt: was there a need to bump debhelper requirement?
[11:53] <slytherin> yes, assign to no one
[11:53] <AnAnt> slytherin: for dh_icons
[11:53] <slytherin> ahh, silly me didn't check changelog
[11:54] <BUGabundo1> geser: reason submit
[11:54] <BUGabundo1> *submited
[11:54] <BUGabundo1> lol
[11:54] <AnAnt> ok, subscribed ubuntu-universe-sponsors , and assigned to no one.
[11:55] <AnAnt> should the bug status be Confirmed ?
[11:55] <AnAnt> or fix commited since I put a diff ?
[11:55] <slytherin> AnAnt: instead of '* Use dh_icons. ' in changelog, put ' * debian/rules: Use dh_icons.' and also add LP: #xxxxxx somewhere in the changelog for automatic bug closing.
[11:55] <slytherin> AnAnt: confirmed
[11:56] <AnAnt> ok
[12:01] <AnAnt> done
[12:01] <AnAnt> uploaded new diff & set status to confirmed
[12:08] <Hobbsee> hmmm...more people.
[12:08] <Hobbsee> are people sure they don't want to do a SRU?
[12:10] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: I'm waiting for someone to sponsor my bug fix #281680
[12:10] <Hobbsee> bug 281680
[12:12] <Hobbsee> i think the patch for that is borked, somehow, with teh RTL formatting of yoru name.
[12:13] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: why hte versioned build depends?
[12:13] <AnAnt> debhelper you mean ?
[12:13] <Hobbsee> oh, dh_icons
[12:13] <AnAnt> because dh_icons does not work for debhelper < 5.0.51
[12:13] <Hobbsee> yes
[12:14] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: well, seeing as this is going into intrepid...
[12:14] <Hobbsee> unless you want it to complain if you backport it to feisty, it's probably not needed.
[12:15] <Hobbsee> (seeing as everything else is equal to, or greater than, that version anyway)
[12:15] <AnAnt> well, it won't hurt, does it ?
[12:16] <Hobbsee> no, afaik, it's just a useless change.
[12:17] <persia> Useless divergence from Debian should be avoided wherever possible : it makes it harder to merge the next version.
[12:17] <Hobbsee> persia: it's ubuntu-native.
[12:17] <slytherin> persia: he he, this is ubuntu native package. :-P
[12:17] <persia> Oh, then it doesn't matter at all.
[12:17] <persia> It's neither useful or useless, it's just irrelevant.
[12:17] <persia> (especially because feisty goes EOL in a week or two)
[12:18] <Hobbsee> persia: is 2.4~ a legit version anyway?
[12:19] <Hobbsee> persia: i thought it had to have a number on the end, but it may not.
[12:19] <persia> All by iteself?  That's not ideal.
[12:19] <persia> No, "iwin" is a perfectly valid version, it's just poor form.
[12:19] <persia> I'd recommend against using 2.4~
[12:19] <Hobbsee> apart from that, and my curiousity about whether a patch that includes a cuople of RTL bits will actually apply, it looks fine.
[12:19] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: ^
[12:20] <persia> Hobbsee, It works fine.  I've applied AnAnt's patches lots of times.
[12:20] <AnAnt> it does apply
[12:20] <Hobbsee> persia: ah, cool :)
[12:21] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: so, will you do the FFe if i sponsor this?  :)
[12:21] <AnAnt> what FFe ?
[12:21] <Hobbsee> sorry, SRU.  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/shadow/+bug/238755
[12:21] <AnAnt> I was told that this is a bug fix not an FFe
[12:21] <Hobbsee> no, i'm getting my terminologies confused.
[12:21]  * persia blames DST
[12:23] <AnAnt> so, what should I do ?
[12:23] <AnAnt> it says Fix released
[12:25] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: it's for hardy
[12:25] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: intrepid is fixed.
[12:26] <AnAnt> I don't have hardy anymore
[12:26] <persia> AnAnt, Surely you can make a pbuilder or sbuild chroot though, right?
[12:27] <AnAnt> I think so
[12:27] <AnAnt> I can use pbuilder
[12:27] <persia> And since it's a command line tool, you can probably test with pbuilder --login
[12:28] <AnAnt> hang on
[12:28] <slytherin> persia: pm?
[12:29] <AnAnt> hmm
[12:29] <AnAnt> sudo pbuilder  --login --distribution hardy
[12:29] <AnAnt> it says extracting base tarball [/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz]
[12:29] <slytherin> AnAnt: that --distribution option is for creating chroot not for login
[12:30] <AnAnt> then what should I do ?
[12:30] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: uploaded, without the debhelper change (it looks messy, and is irrelevant)
[12:30] <Hobbsee> persia: indeed, you're right.
[12:30] <slytherin> AnAnt: you can have multiple pbuilderrc and then use --configfile option for referring to a particular pbuilder chroot
[12:31] <AnAnt> oh, download hardy again
[12:31] <Hobbsee> interesting.  I don't think the janitor got the name from the changelog right.
[12:31] <Hobbsee> wow, 60 uus bugs!  an improvement!
[12:33] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: it's launchpad problem
[12:33] <Hobbsee> hey dholbach!
[12:34] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: same thing in PPA
[12:34] <dholbach> hi Hobbsee
[12:34] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: yeah, i figured - displays fine on my system and such
[12:34] <Hobbsee> dholbach: are you going to sponsor bugs from the uus queue today?
[12:34] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: bug is reported close to a year ago
[12:34] <dholbach> Hobbsee: maybe... depends if I get my router to work again
[12:36] <Hobbsee> AnAnt: it might get fixed soon then.   maybe.
[12:37] <Hobbsee> dholbach: well, you've got to irc, which is a good strat...
[12:37] <dholbach> ...
[12:37] <dholbach> borrowed wifi from neighbour
[12:37] <slytherin> dholbach: borrowed with permission? ;-)
[12:38] <Hobbsee> slytherin: presumably jhove can be bumped to universe too now?
[12:39] <slytherin> Hobbsee: yes it can. But I am not going to file any more move to universe bugs till the ones already in archive admin queue get cleared.
[12:39] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: thanks anyways
[12:39] <Hobbsee> slytherin: heh, fair enough.
[12:39] <Hobbsee> slytherin: id' do it, but i don't have those powers.
[12:40] <Hobbsee> slytherin: howeve,r if you bribed StevenK...
[12:40] <persia> Hobbsee, I promised other members of the release team that the Java team wouldn't be pushing more stuff from multiverse to universe except to resolve cases where universe depends/recommends on multiverse for this cycle.
[12:40] <Hobbsee> persia: ahh
[12:40] <Hobbsee> persia: i hadn't seen that.
[12:40] <slytherin> yes, and that too.
[12:40] <persia> Hobbsee, We'll get right back on it for Jaunty, but wanted to reduce the noise and let the archive settle a bit for the release :)
[12:41] <persia> There's still a few cases where it violates the ogre model that need sorting, and those are important, so not having more helps make that clear to the archive admins.
[12:42] <Hobbsee> hey...that's not nice!
[12:42]  * Hobbsee doesn't want to install 70.5mb, just to sponsor a package...
[12:42] <StevenK> Refuse?
[12:43] <Hobbsee> StevenK: you've got a mirror haven't you?  I'll assign you the bug :P
[12:43] <persia> Hobbsee, Java?
[12:43] <slytherin> Hobbsee: you could try building it in ppa or you can leave it to be handled by persia or geser
[12:43] <persia> Which package is this?
[12:43] <slytherin> persia: jhove
[12:43] <Hobbsee> persia: yeah
[12:43] <Hobbsee> slytherin: nah, it's even building the source for it
[12:44] <persia> Oh, right.
[12:44] <Hobbsee> i'll find a machine with a local mirror
[12:44]  * persia still has that bug open somewhere in the stack
[12:45] <slytherin> StevenK: Hobbsee suggested that I bribe you for clearing up some move to universe bugs related to java apps/libs. So what would your prefer as bribe?
[12:46] <StevenK> Standard sysadmin bribe
[12:46] <Hobbsee> beer?
[12:46] <slytherin> how do I dispatch it? :-)
[12:47] <StevenK> Come to UDS
[12:48] <slytherin> I would rather propose UDS in India. :-D
[12:49] <Hobbsee> oh, 41.6 mb without recommends.  that's not so bad.
[12:50] <persia> UDS in India would be interesting, but I worry about bandwidth
[12:51] <slytherin> persia: badnwidth is not a bug issue, security is the biggest one.
[12:51] <jsgotangco> a UDS in Asia would be interesting
[12:51] <persia> slytherin, Isn't that just a matter of hiring some guards?
[12:51] <slytherin> persia: I haven't yet tried. :-)
[12:52] <persia> jsgotangco, Indeed.  Where do you think strikes the best balance of cost and bandwidth?
[12:52] <jsgotangco> persia: you would be surprised how good bandwidth in some countries here are
[12:53] <persia> jsgotangco, I doubt it.  I used to be responsible for network operations for Asia-Pacific for a multinational :)
[12:53] <jsgotangco> lol
[12:53] <persia> That said, it's about balancing price and bandwidth.
[12:53] <jsgotangco> true
[12:53] <jsgotangco> at least i'm better off with my bandwidth than people in AU :-)
[12:53] <persia> Somewhere like Laos is cheap, but the bandwidth is bad.  Somewhere like Korea has *great* bandwidth, but it's not so cheap.
[12:54] <jsgotangco> Vietnam is nice
[12:54] <jsgotangco> persia: dude not Laos lol, that place is quite provincial
[12:54] <persia> Like I said, the bandwidth is bad :)
[12:54] <jsgotangco> Singapore would be nice
[12:55] <elkbuntu> jsgotangco, rub it in why don't you.
[12:55] <persia> Singapore could work.  Good flight connectivity too.  Direct to Sydney, Tokyo, Newark, LA, Frankfurt.
[12:55]  * jsgotangco hubs elkbuntu
[12:55] <slytherin> persia: India is ideal place. There are various cities like Hyderabad, Bangalore, Pune, Delhi which would give you good bandwidth to price ratio.
[12:56] <jsgotangco> persia: technology wise, you can't go wrong with either India or SG
[12:56] <persia> slytherin, It's hard to fly there though, and I've never been satisfied with latency to India except with private fibre, but maybe that's just me.
[12:57] <slytherin> persia: When did you fly here last time? Things have improved in last 2-3 years.
[12:59] <persia> slytherin, At least that long ago.  Are there now direct flights to most major international hubs?
[13:00] <slytherin> yes, AFAIK.
[13:01] <persia> OK.  Works for me.
[13:04] <slytherin> Ocotber/November is the ideal time. Because March/April is too hot. So we have one whole year for planning. :-)
[13:06] <Hobbsee> persia: singapore wouldn't work.
[13:07] <persia> Hobbsee, ?
[13:07] <Hobbsee> persia: not unless you want the developers from europe to curl up and die.
[13:07] <Hobbsee> persia: they'd never cope with the humidity
[13:07] <Hobbsee> or, unless they'd never have to leave the hotel, or something
[13:07] <Hobbsee> pity, as it's quite a beautiful place
[13:07] <persia> That could work.  Focused UDS.  No city tours.
[13:07] <Hobbsee> no dinner?
[13:08] <persia> Hrm.  Right.
[13:08] <persia> Anyway, it's late here (not as late as there on your clock, but *much later on mine).
[13:09] <Hobbsee> persia: before you go - just checking i haven't gone mad here - the xine-lib transition can't be dropped, just because the transitions "done" can it?
[13:11] <Hobbsee> based on the descriptions of the packages, i can't see how that could possibly be right.
[13:27] <persia> Hobbsee, I think we have to preserve it, but check with siretart.
[13:27] <Hobbsee> persia: right.  already pushed it back
[13:27] <Hobbsee> done 4 bugs today, plus put a few on the release radar.  i'm sure that's enough :P
[13:28] <sebner> Hobbsee: ~5-a-day~
[13:28] <sebner> :P
[13:29] <Hobbsee> sebner: :P
[13:30] <Hobbsee> sebner: nah, i just marked one of the release radar bugs as one of the 5 a day :P
[13:30] <sebner> Hobbsee: fine then :P
[13:39] <lfaraone> How long after release do we wait before new packages can be submitted?
[13:40] <RainCT> lfaraone: it can take 1-2 weeks or so until the repos for jaunty are created, but reviewing of new packages can start before
[13:40] <RainCT> !revu > lfaraone
[13:40] <lfaraone> RainCT: Ok, I'm just wondering at what point can I start building. (I'm going to see if I can get gwibber in the repos,  it's waay too late now of ourse)
[13:43] <ScottK-laptop> lfaraone: That early in the cycle building on the previous release is generallly just fine.
[14:03] <slytherin> does debian have any revu style setup?
[14:03] <bddebian> mentors.debian.net
[14:04] <bddebian> But it isn't quite as well "supported" for lack of a better term.
[14:08] <slytherin> ok
[14:21] <fta> persia, lool: early previews of fennec for intrepid & hardy are in my ppa, in case you care to give it a try.
[14:24] <fta> no armel obviously
[14:54] <RainCT> Does someone here know how debian_bundle.deb822.Sources works?
[14:54] <james_w> hey RainCT
[14:55] <james_w> what are you stuck with?
[14:58] <RainCT> james_w: I want to create a Sources.bz2 file (I'm working on apt-get'able source repos for REVU) but I can't find no documentation on how to do it with python-debian. An example or something would be great, else I may just write a function for that myself (isn't that difficult after all).
[14:59] <james_w> hmm, I've only ever used it for reading them
[15:00] <james_w> they have a __str__ method defined
[15:08] <RainCT> well, seems like it's easier to just write it myself
[15:09] <james_w> yeah
[15:10] <ScottK-laptop> RainCT: Then you might send patches to Debian after ....
[15:13] <RainCT> james_w: it's useful to get the required info for the Sources.bz2, though :)
[15:14] <RainCT> ScottK-laptop: hm.. it seems rather read-only oriented, not sure where such a function would fit there
[15:15] <ScottK-laptop> OK.  Just a thought.
[15:21] <RainCT> Should archived packages be apt-get'able?
[15:27]  * RainCT will take that for a no :P
[15:28] <ScottK-laptop> I'm good with no.
[15:29] <slytherin> RainCT: archives that means someone is already working on them. Don't think they should be apt-get'able.
[15:31] <ScottK-laptop> slytherin: No.  Archived means it's done being worked on.  Usual reason is it's been uploaded and you should get it from the Ubuntu archive.
[15:32] <slytherin> ScottK-laptop: right, so it is ok to exclude them from the apt-get'able archives on revu, right?
[15:34] <ScottK-laptop> Yes.
[16:05] <RainCT> james_w: Is there something to read debian/control in debian_bundle?
[16:05] <james_w> RainCT: yeah
[16:05] <james_w> one moment please
[16:10] <james_w> RainCT: hmm, is it just a Deb822 object that should be used?
[16:11] <james_w> ah, PackageFile from debian_support can do it
[16:14] <james_w> RainCT: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56323/ <- fragment of some code I wrote that might help
[16:15] <RainCT> james_w: thanks :)
[16:15] <james_w> making the BinaryPackage thing a dict might be more useful, I needed attributes
[16:15] <RainCT> it's just to get the priority and the section, anyway
[17:04] <danbh_intrepid> Hobbsee: ping
[17:05] <RainCT> siretart: I'd like to get ride of column "isarchived" from Upload. Is there some special reason why it was added?
[17:14] <ethana2> OO.o 3 final binaries are out
[17:14] <ethana2> Is intrepid main going to stick to OO.o 2.4 or will it ship with 3.0?
[17:20] <RainCT> james_w: seems like   [x for x in ...PackageFile(...)]   results in an exception if the control file has more than 2 Binary entries
[17:20] <RainCT>     raise ParseError(self.name, lineno, msg)
[17:20] <RainCT> debian_bundle.debian_support.ParseError: expected package field
[17:20] <james_w> I didn't say this code was tested :-)
[17:20] <danbh_intrepid> ethana2: I don't actually know, but I have a suspicion, that the answer is no.   Intrepid is already in a feature freeze, and openoffice 3 is only in the experimental repos of debian
[17:31] <james_w> asac: I'd appreciate your input in bug 262191
[17:39] <RainCT> james_w: OK, I've a fix. Should I send it to submit@bugs.debian.org or to some other place?
[17:39] <james_w> RainCT: what's the fix?
[17:39] <james_w> for debian_support?
[17:40] <RainCT> james_w: Yes.   if line == '\n':   should be   if line.strip(' ') == '\n':
[17:40] <AnAnt> Hobbsee: what should be for bug 238755 ?
[17:41] <james_w> RainCT: yeah, submit@ please
[18:03] <siretart> RainCT: the idea of 'isarchived' was to have these uploads not on the main page. main use case: the package has been accepted into the archive
[18:05] <RainCT> siretart: yea, but there's also SourcePackage.isinarchive which is used for the same
[18:06] <siretart> RainCT: the idea for that was something else. We had a cron job that regularily scanned for package versions in the archive. this way revu could tell if the version number indicated if that was an already accepted upload in ubuntu
[18:09] <RainCT> siretart: Ah. Well, I still think it would be better to only have it once (and in the SourcePackage table), though. Thanks for the info :).
[18:10] <siretart> RainCT: right. ideally we'd probably had a special table with source packages an versions in the archive, initally filled via a script that parses Sources.gz and regularily updated via some .procmailrc
[18:39] <RainCT> omg.. now please tell me why there are _source.changes files with wrong encoding on REVU -.-
[18:44] <henux> So ...
[18:44] <henux> I am an able Linux programmer with an interest of contributing to Ubuntu.
[18:45] <henux> I have used Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Arch. Now I am at Arch, but I'm downloading Intrepid.
[18:45] <henux> I have read some of your wiki docs and there was talk about this "MOTU program" where I can perhaps get a Mentor.
[18:46] <henux> I can do C, C++, C#, Java, Python, PHP, SQL, HTML, Bash...
[18:46] <henux> I could perhaps start with bug fixing and packaging...
[18:47] <james_w> hey henux
[18:47] <james_w> that's a good place to start
[18:47] <henux> hey james_w
[18:47] <henux> james_w: can you be my mentor?
[18:47] <james_w> there is a mentoring program if you wish to have a mentor, but it can take a little time to get a mentor, so it's good to get stuck in
[18:48] <henux> Yes I could use a Mentor
[18:48] <james_w> henux: sorry, I can't I've got as many mentees as I can take currently
[18:48] <henux> I understand
[18:48] <henux> How do I apply for a mentor then?
[18:50] <james_w> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[18:50] <james_w> it's linked from there, along with loads of other information about MOTU and how to get involved
[18:50] <dholbach> henux: dive into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted - we have some pretty good docs and videos, there's a few lists of things that you get started on and you can always ask in here if you have questions
[18:51] <dholbach> henux: it's awesome you're getting involved with MOTU like that
[18:51] <dholbach> maybe you can help iron out a few small bugs before we release intrepid :)
[18:51] <henux> okay i will check those out
[18:51] <dholbach> rock and roll
[18:54] <henux> If I contribute bug fixes and code to Ubuntu, will those fixes be committed "upstream", to the original sources or will they remain in Ubuntu only?
[18:54] <henux> Such as, if I fix a bug in some program X
[18:54] <dholbach> henux: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream has documentation on how to best forward fixes to Upstream
[18:54] <RainCT> henux: only in Ubuntu, but you are highly encouraged to send them upstream too
[18:54] <geser> henux: depends if you forward them (preferable) or not
[18:55] <dholbach> we're just having a discussion about it on ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com and it seems that the concensus is that the patch author is in most cases best privileged to forward it upstream
[18:55] <henux> Okay, thanks.
[18:55] <dholbach> excellent
[18:56] <dholbach> I'm out for dinner - see you all next week!
[18:56] <henux> See you.
[18:56] <henux> I see that there is much to learn.
[18:56] <dholbach> but it's fun, you get to know a lot of people and it's very rewarding :)
[18:57] <dholbach> party on!
[18:57] <henux> Sounds good
[18:58] <henux> Oh by the way, I have developed a Supybot plugin which displays UNIX man pages from the Ubuntu Manpage Repository. We have it in use in #club-ubuntu.
[18:59] <henux> http://nor.fi/~henrih/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7:ubuntuman&catid=9:other&Itemid=14
[19:00] <RainCT> henux: cool :)
[19:01]  * RainCT is going to kill himself because people can't write proper debian/control files, btw
[19:05] <RainCT> omg, the source repo is working \o/
[19:05] <henux> Do you consider anyone could be interested about that in #ubuntu-dev or somewhere?
[19:06] <henux> About my UbuntuMan plugin, I mean.
[19:06] <zul> henux: you might want to talk to kirkland he is the guy behind it
[19:06] <RainCT> and I'm going to stab the next one who uploads some package to revu with a debian/control file which is broken in some unpredictable way :P
[19:08] <iulian> Yay, you scare me.
[19:08] <DktrKranz> RainCT, it's a challenge? :)
[19:09] <henux> zul: I dropped him a PM.
[19:09] <DktrKranz> "hax0r REVU" contest
[19:09] <zul> henux: you might want to do it on the weekday though
[19:10] <henux> He will see the PM when he comes back, I hope.
[19:10]  * henux goes back to reading Ubuntu Wiki.
[19:11] <RainCT> yeha :)
[19:11] <RainCT> deb-src http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/archive intrepid revu
[19:13] <james_w> nice work RainCT
[19:15] <RainCT> james_w: thx :)
[19:23] <henux> I'm going to install Intrepid now, hope to see you again soon.
[19:24] <RainCT> DktrKranz: that depends. do you consider "being stabbed" a reward? :)
[19:26] <emgent> moin
[19:26] <emgent> s/moin/evening/
[19:26] <DktrKranz> RainCT, it depends... if I quicly replace myself with some of my several enemies.... ;)
[19:27] <emgent> hey DktrKranz
[19:27] <RainCT> hi emgent
[19:27] <DktrKranz> hoy emgent
[19:27] <emgent> hi RainCT :)
[20:18] <james_w> anyone have a powerpc development box?
[20:20] <DktrKranz> james_w, not directly, but I can ask a friend of mine
[20:20] <james_w> it's ok, it's not that important
[20:21] <james_w> thanks though
[20:23] <DktrKranz> let me know when you need it
[20:25] <henux> I just installed Intrepid, no GUI, only command line. Wifi not working `iwlist wlan0 scan` does not find my wlan. I have Broadcom BMCxxx as Ethernet controller and Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 as Network controller. Any help?
[20:31] <henux> fixed
[21:02] <henux> Do I need to install intrepid in order to contribute into Ubuntu?
[21:04] <henux> I'm having troubles running Intrepid with my laptop
[21:04] <geser> henux: not directly, but it helps having atleast a intrepid chroot at hand to test packages
[21:04] <henux> i installed command line base system only, and then installed X, slim and fluxbox. now the keyboard and touchpad do not work
[21:05] <henux> i have dell latitude d630,  can anyone help?
[21:05] <henux> also, lynx cant browse help.ubuntu.com it says its not build with ssl support
[21:06] <henux> geser: can i then contribute into ubuntu, even if running Arch or some other distro?
[21:20] <geser> henux: yes
[21:21] <henux> hmmm
[21:21] <geser> but it helps to have the development version of ubuntu around so you can test your patches
[21:22] <james_w> nellery: hey, does kbib have a freeze exception?
[21:22] <nellery> james_w, Hi, no it doesn't
[21:22] <nellery> Should it get one?
[21:22] <RainCT> henux: (w3m -installed by default- has SSL support)
[21:22] <james_w> nellery: it looks like there are new features to me, do you agree?
[21:24] <nellery> james_w, looks like it
[21:24] <nellery> though most of the updates are bug fixes
[21:24] <james_w> nellery: cool, please request one then.
[21:24] <nellery> james_w, Ok
[21:24] <james_w> nellery: I assume it's a KDE program?
[21:24] <nellery> james_w, yes
[21:25] <james_w> nellery: maybe you can get one from the KDE delegate then, that may be easier
[21:25] <nellery> james_w, okay, thanks a lot
[21:32] <henux> i need to read pop3 mailbox from console just to reset my launchpad password and report this bug. what email client i can use?
[21:33]  * james_w suspects Laney of developing on Windows
[21:34] <james_w> henux: is mutt installed?
[21:34] <henux> yes
[21:34] <henux> i dont know how to use it
[21:35] <james_w> ah, that's more tricky
[21:36] <henux> this failed intrepid experiment really didnt give me a good impression of it... :/
[21:37] <RainCT> henux: how have you updated?
[21:37] <henux> RainCT: keyboard and touchpad dont work
[21:37] <henux> im downloading hardy and installing it
[21:38] <Elbrus> henux: I think RainCT asked how you installed intrepid... I assume by LiveCD, but you didn't say
[21:38] <henux> yes
[21:39] <henux> well no
[21:39] <Elbrus> henux: in that case: which version?
[21:39] <henux> i used alternative iso
[21:39] <henux> and only the command line system
[21:39] <henux> x86
[21:40] <henux> should i perhaps install the complete desktop?
[21:40] <Elbrus> henux: I have not used the CD
[21:40] <Elbrus> s in a long time, what was an alternative iso?
[21:40] <henux> i would like to contribute into ubuntu, but this intrepid install really didnt work for me
[21:40] <Elbrus> so, I still don't know exactly how you installed it...
[21:40] <henux> Elbrus: it allows to install only the command line base system and build from there
[21:41] <henux> i like to use flubxo
[21:41] <Elbrus> so you run something like apt-get install ....?
[21:41] <henux> yes
[21:41] <henux> fluxbox*
[21:41]  * Elbrus looks up what fluxbo is
[21:41] <RainCT> henux: and what's the problem with the keyboard?
[21:41] <henux> Elbrus: i meant fluxbox
[21:42] <RainCT> Elbrus: it's a window manager
[21:42] <henux> RainCT: I installed xserver-xorg, slim and fluxbox. keyboard nor touchpad work in X, they just dont respond
[21:42] <RainCT> henux: do you have the necessary xserver-xorg-input- modules?
[21:43] <henux> perhaps i should configure the X first?
[21:43] <Elbrus> maybe try a standard window manager first... KDE4 or GNOME, where the latter might be slightly more stable at the moment.
[21:43] <henux> RainCT: i dont know, doesnt it installl them automatically?
[21:43] <Elbrus> just to get it working
[21:43] <RainCT> henux: no
[21:43] <henux> Elbrus: fluxbox is very stable
[21:43] <henux> Elbrus: havent had problems with it before
[21:43] <RainCT> or perhaps it does, not sure
[21:43] <Elbrus> also in Ubuntu??
[21:43] <henux> Elbrus: yes in hardy
[21:44] <RainCT> henux: check if you have xserver-xorg-input-synaptics
[21:44] <henux> RainCT: `sudo apt-get install xserver-xorg` brings a lot of video-* and input-* packages
[21:44] <Elbrus> ok, I am just trying to help, but have no experience there (and didn't know).
[21:44] <henux> RainCT: its intalled
[21:44] <henux> installed*
[21:45] <henux> Elbrus: sure
[21:45] <nellery> where is the logfile kept when running --logfile with pbuilder?
[21:45] <henux> how do i start the X config tool from CLI?
[21:45] <RainCT> nellery: --logfile takes a filename as argument
[21:46] <henux> ah
[21:46] <henux> foudn it
[21:46] <RainCT> sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[21:46] <nellery> RainCT, how should it be run?
[21:46] <RainCT> nellery: pbuilder .... --logfile file_name_you_want.log
[21:47] <nellery> RainCT, thanks a lot
[21:47] <henux> now, how do i restart X? one is already running
[21:47] <RainCT> henux: try:   sudo /etc/init.d/slim restart
[21:47] <RainCT> at least with gdm / kdm it's like that
[21:48] <henux> slim not responding to TERM signall
[21:48] <henux> i will do killall
[21:49] <henux> nothing
[21:49] <henux> now plain X is running
[21:49] <henux> not responding to touchpad
[21:50] <RainCT> henux: uhm.. sudo /etc/init.d/x11-common restart  ?
[21:50] <RainCT> (the right place for Intrepid support is #ubuntu+1, btw)
[21:50] <henux> nothing
[21:50] <henux> they did not give me any help there
[21:51] <RainCT> henux: how have you started X?
[21:51] <henux> RainCT: its running in alt-f7
[21:51] <henux> i can see the X mouse cursor and background
[21:51] <RainCT> henux: yea, but how have you started it?
[21:51] <henux> RainCT: i installed slim and rebooted themachine
[21:52] <henux> what is the name of the xserver's process? can i just kill it?
[21:52] <henux> sudo /etc/init.d/x11-common stop  <-- this does not do anything
[21:53] <RainCT> (not sure if that should do anything at all, was just a guess)
[21:53] <henux> okay
[21:53] <RainCT> could you kill slim or not?
[21:54] <henux> yes
[21:54] <henux> slim is no longer there
[21:54] <RainCT> and if you start it now?
[21:54] <henux> only plain x
[21:54] <henux> it starts, nothing happens in alt-f7
[21:55] <henux> ok i killed the X process
[21:55] <henux> i will now restart slim
[21:56] <henux> nothing, key and touchpad doesnt work
[21:56] <henux> xorf.conf does not contain blocks for keyboard or mouse
[21:57] <henux> probably because it does not recognize them
[21:58] <james_w> is there a way to not have to specify -k all the time to debuild and debsign?
[21:58] <RainCT> james_w: DEBFULLNAME, DEBEMAIL?
[21:59] <RainCT> or you mean for sponsoring?
[22:00] <RainCT> in the later case, you could try with   alias sdebuild='debuild -k<your email> $*'  or something like that
[22:00] <james_w> yeah
[22:00] <james_w> yeah, I thought there would be a way to do it
[22:00] <james_w> there's DEBSIGN_KEYID, but it doesn't seem to do what I want
[22:01] <james_w> surely taking it from the debian/changelog isn't the best way, unless you have multiple personalities
[22:01] <james_w> I mean it works well for having no setup, but surely I should be able to override it by specifying a key to always sign with
[22:32] <crevette> hello
[22:33] <james_w> hey crevette
[22:33] <crevette> hey james_w
[22:33] <crevette> thanks a lot
[22:34] <james_w> no problem
[22:34] <crevette> Ubuntu ships an old version of nemiver, a GNOME graphical debugger, and I would like to have the latest version, seb128 is okay for that, I just need the process to get it
[22:34] <crevette> I've already opena bug
[22:34] <crevette> debian ships 0.6.2 and latest is 0.6.3
[22:36] <crevette> it seems the nemiver package is just a sync'ed package from debian
[22:36] <norsetto> nellery: re. bug 281814, have you done any testing?
[22:39] <james_w> hey norsetto
[22:39] <norsetto> james_w: hey james_w
[22:40] <nellery> norsetto, Hi, I have and it appears to be working fine
[22:42] <norsetto> nellery: thats good, the problem is that this thing hasn't seen any testing and so I'd rather be sure that its working fine in intrepid, and that if it doesn't, there is somebody that can take care of it
[22:45] <nellery> norsetto, Well I'm using intrepid  to test it right now, and I'm fairly confident that I can take care of a major issue
[22:47] <norsetto> nellery: that would be cool, if you can, pls. try also asking others to test it; waiting for the FFe to be approved you can use your PPA for that
[22:48] <nellery> norsetto, okay, I will do that
[22:48] <nellery> thanks a lot!
[22:50] <norsetto> nellery: np
[22:54] <azeem>  
[22:54] <azeem> oops, sorry
[23:17] <emgent> ScottK: ping