[00:00] <cjwatson> it seems like essentially a paranoia check to me
[00:00] <cjwatson> but evand could say if I'm missing something
[00:01] <ogra> mmc ususally registers as /dev/mmcblk[0,1,2,..]
[00:01] <cjwatson> mmc> ah, I see, "block device corresponds to the controller on the card rather than the MMC host adapter"
[00:01] <ogra> apart from the numbering the naming is pretty reliable
[00:04]  * cjwatson makes a note in the bug
[00:04] <cjwatson> ogra: search> I knew it was the pkgbinarymangler package, so ran dpkg -c, which reminded me that it had a dpkg-deb wrapper script, so I looked at that
[00:06] <ogra> ah, well, i knew i had talked to pitti about it twice and tried to find it in the logs :)
[00:12] <johanbr> Hmm. Making the obvious changes to backend.py doesn't make my SD card appear.
[00:13] <ogra> johanbr, does it get mounted if you dont use ubiquity ?
[00:14] <johanbr> Yes. And I think I made a stupid mistake. Just a sec.
[00:14] <ogra> i noticed that it doesnt work after using SD's several times, i fear thats a kernel issue
[00:14] <ogra> or udev
[00:15] <johanbr> I've never had any problems like that.
[00:22] <johanbr> Still no luck with modifying usb-creator, though. Hmm...
[00:25] <ogra> on what do you match now ?
[00:25] <ogra> probably storage.drive:_type=sd_mmc is better
[00:25] <ogra> -:
[00:26] <johanbr> Missed one place. Just a minute,
[00:27] <johanbr> Yes! It works. Or well, it detects the device. :)
[00:28] <ogra> cool
[00:29] <johanbr> I just took out the usb detection parts, though. When I have something more proper, I'll add a patch to the bug.
[00:52] <Pollywog> I need to recompile kmail from deb-src with debugging enabled but it seems as though the format of the debian/rules file has changed.  How to I change the configure options for a package when compiling from deb-src?
[00:52] <Pollywog> a Howto or other reference would suffice
[00:52] <Pollywog> a recent Howto
[01:34] <TheMuso> Ok something in intrepid wants to keep re-inserting my tray loading external DVD drive. Its actually an IDE drive mounted in an external USB box, but every time I eject it, it is re-inserted straight away...
[01:45] <StevenK> TheMuso: Can you try and build the latest libtunepimp from Intrepid on your PowerPC?
[02:00] <StevenK> TheMuso: It will fail, but I'd like the config.log from the build, if you can swing it
[02:02] <TheMuso> StevenK: Sure, just give me a sec.
[02:05]  * TheMuso updates his powerpc intrepid chroot and prepares to build libtunepimp by hand.
[02:05] <StevenK> TheMuso: Yeah, that's the trouble with sbuild. pbuilder can be asked to give a shell
[02:06] <TheMuso> StevenK: I just schroot into the chroot, install build-deps, and run commands manually. I find it more flexible than pbuilder, since there is no time wasted unpacking the chroot.
[02:07] <StevenK> TheMuso: Yeah, me too
[02:10] <TheMuso> StevenK: 0.5.3-7ubuntu2?
[02:11] <StevenK> TheMuso: Right]
[02:11] <StevenK> s/]//
[02:11] <TheMuso> StevenK: It builds, but fails in the binary step.
[02:11] <TheMuso> StevenK: What log do you want?
[02:11] <StevenK> TheMuso: Yup. The cause for the failure is checking for mad_version in -lmad... no
[02:11] <StevenK> TheMuso: config.log
[02:13] <TheMuso> StevenK: do you want it emailed, or will pastebin do?
[02:13] <StevenK> TheMuso: pastebin is preferable, if you can swing it
[02:13] <TheMuso> StevenK: Sure.
[02:13]  * StevenK keeps testing -mid
[02:14] <TheMuso> StevenK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/56855/
[02:14] <TheMuso> ...and I'm out for a bit.
[02:18] <StevenK> TheMuso: I've got the error, thanks
[02:37] <TheMuso> StevenK: np
[02:38] <StevenK> What that actually means, I have no idea
[02:38]  * StevenK will have to beg doko
[02:38] <TheMuso> what is the problem exactly?
[02:39] <StevenK> /usr/bin/ld: /tmp/ccWjbBvF.o(.text+0xc): unresolvable R_PPC_REL24 relocation against symbol `mad_version'
[02:41] <TheMuso> lovely
[02:42] <StevenK> james_w: Bug 281561 commented on about libmad PPC brokenness
[03:02] <calc> anyone know if there is an air quality index applet for gnome?
[03:34] <unfo> hi all.  I convinced upstream Xorg to change things last week.  Now DontZap is the default.  Will DontZap also be the default on jaunty jackalope?
[03:34] <unfo> i.e. will Xorg's change automatically propagate to jaunty?
[03:35] <unfo> bryce_: you're involved with X.  do you know the answer?
[03:36] <unfo> *X packaging
[03:36] <bryce_> unfo: yes when we re-sync for jaunty it will come in
[04:00] <unfo> bryce_: sorry to ask again; but I want to be sure, and I realize I didn't ask so well before.  I don't fully understand the code of the change dstone made.  But I do know that sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg -pcritical causes Ubuntu to write out a new Xorg.conf.  Will that Xorg.conf negate the new default by specifying that users may zap?  Or will it keep the new default and leave zapping disabled?
[04:09] <RAOF> unfo: We don't write that value currently, and I don't see any reason why we'd suddenly start writing it.
[04:14] <unfo> RAOF: ok thanks for clarifying.
[04:15] <unfo> another question.  all :  there are a lot of games in Ubuntu main.  Some are quite bad.  Can we move the bad ones into universe or make some other change, thereby raising the average quality of games in Ubuntu?
[04:15] <StevenK> What do you mean by bad?
[04:15] <unfo> Or maybe can we ship more of the best games on cdrom 1?
[04:16] <unfo> StevenK: pick a few random games in main.  Install them.  Try them.  See if you like them.
[04:16] <unfo> StevenK:  Let me give you examples of bad games, some are in main, some in universe, I don't remember:  btanks, tennix,
[04:17] <Hobbsee> i've often wondered why some of the stuff in gnome-games doesn't get split out, and demoted.
[04:17] <Hobbsee> unfo: neither of those are in the default install
[04:17] <StevenK> gnome-games is quite good
[04:17] <unfo> Hobbsee: sorry, I'm now on the phone IRL.  I agree, neither is in the default install.
[04:17] <bryce_> Hobbsee: I'm sure it boils down to manpower
[04:17] <unfo> I can list more in 1 hour once I am off the phone.
[04:18] <Hobbsee> bryce_: i would have thought the manpower would get allocated rather easily, seeing as it'd be a good way to cut down cd space.
[04:18] <bryce_> unfo: file demotion requests in launchpad for each you'd like to propose eliminating
[04:18] <Hobbsee> !info gnome-games intrepid
[04:19] <Hobbsee> hmmm, not that big.
[04:20] <StevenK> Yeah, there's more low-hanging fruit. Or there has been, at least.
[04:20] <Hobbsee> it seems to be decreasing.  THere's not that many more langpacks, either
[04:20] <bryce_> the games in gnome-games aren't really that horrible.  Some are a bit eye-candy poor, but they're all quite playable
[04:22] <bryce_> but it's definitely true games available in ubuntu need a lot of work
[04:24] <StevenK> Some games
[05:29] <aaronp> Sorry if this is a FAQ, but can someone please point me towards the documentation on how to upload PPA builds?  I can't seem to find it.
[05:49] <aaronp> Never mind, I found it in some random IRC log.
[06:16] <unfo> aaronp:  That's not really such good documentation.  :)  Someone should write some real documentation.  Don't volunteer me for the job though.
[06:17] <unfo> aaronp:  Or at least you should write something on the Ubuntu wiki.
[06:21] <unfo> I haven't used gnome-app-install ("Add/Remove...") for a few years now.  But IIRC it listed a star rating for each application based on popcon data.  But most apps had a star rating of "1 out of 5".  Some apps (the apps on the Ubuntu Desktop CD) had 4 stars or 5 stars.  Is that still the case?  If it is, we should bell-curve the star ratings so that more packages get 2 or 3 stars and less get 1 or 4 or 5.
[06:21] <unfo> That would help the games problem by helping people decide which games to add to their PC based on their star ratings.
[06:46] <dholbach> good morning
[07:03] <StevenK> pitti: So, in the removal of libcgi-perl, you said it was superseded by libcgi-pm-perl and perl-modules. You failed to check if libcgi-pm-perl was shipped by us, and it isn't.
[07:04] <pitti> Good morning
[07:04] <pitti> StevenK: uh, where? when? me?
[07:05] <pitti> that package name doesn't ring a bell
[07:05] <StevenK> # Deleted on 2008-06-20 by Martin Pitt - (From Debian) ROM; obsolete; superseded years ago by libcgi-pm-perl
[07:05] <pitti> ScottK: restricted-manager-kde> hm, do you still have the restricted-manager-kde package removed, but not purged?
[07:06] <pitti> slangasek: coreutils SRU> it's for dapper
[07:06] <pitti> slangasek: it was removed in Debian, perl-modules now provides it AFAIR
[07:07] <pitti> ogra: no problem, not much time any more to fix up stuff :)
[07:08] <pitti> ScottK, slangasek: apparently I missed the libfile-temp-perl discussion, but if we need it still, let's just put it back instead of wasting a lot of work on it
[07:08] <StevenK> pitti: Right, but bugzilla3 in Intrepid requires a newer CGI.pm than perl-modules provides.
[07:08] <StevenK> pitti: And when that bug was reported in Debian, the reporter said "Use libcgi-pm-perl, kthxbye"
[07:09] <pitti> ArneGoetje, Riddell: not quite sure what you were discussing, but the extra KDE files are in extra-files/kde-LL.tar
[07:09] <pitti> ArneGoetje: they originally came from extracting them from KDE, but they are maintained in langpack-o-matic's bzr now
[07:11] <pitti> cjwatson: gaspa mailed me about usplash overflow, I'll followup there
[07:12] <pitti> StevenK: ok, then let's just copy-package it back from hardy
[07:12] <pitti> StevenK: (for intrepid, anyway)
[07:12] <StevenK> pitti: libcgi-pm-perl? It doesn't exist in either
[07:13] <persia> pitti, Wouldn't it be better to sync the new package than copypackage the obsolete package?
[07:13] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~% rmadison libcgi-pm-perl
[07:13] <StevenK> steven@liquified:~%
[07:22] <pitti> StevenK: oh, sure; syncing is fine, too
[07:25] <dholbach> asac: if you could push another thunderbird with the last change from ~saivann/thunderbird/fix_desktop_file you could close the thunderbird task from bug 190688
[08:19] <StevenK> pitti: Oh, what was the other library that we should transistion away from?
[08:22] <pitti> StevenK: libfile-temp-perl ?
[08:22] <StevenK> pitti: Sorry, you mentioned it last week the same time as libgnutls13
[08:23] <pitti> StevenK: oh, that's opencdk10, but its only user is gnutls13
[08:23] <StevenK> Ah
[08:24] <pitti> StevenK: hm, so I earned the powerpc libtunepimp FTBFS
[08:24] <StevenK> pitti: Talk to persia about that :-)
[08:25] <StevenK> pitti: I've analysed it, as you can see from the bug comments, but I have no idea how to fix that
[08:25] <persia> pitti, I just randomly assigned stuff to the cruft-busters.  Feel free to reject it if you're too busy.
[08:25] <StevenK> pitti: Looks like the breakage is in libmad, too
[08:25] <pitti> persia: right, that's fine
[08:25] <pitti> just wonder how to tackle it
[08:25] <StevenK> My plan was "Ask doko how to fix it"
[08:26] <doko> fix what?
[08:27] <StevenK> doko: libmad on PPC. It's giving a realloc error
[08:27] <doko> StevenK: bug?
[08:27] <StevenK> doko: Bug 281561
[08:28] <EvanCarroll> hallo! I just wanted to report that I have working sound using a custom compiled radeonhd under the git branch HDMI audio
[08:29] <doko> StevenK: is one of the libraries built with -fpic instead of -fPIC?
[08:29] <persia> EvanCarroll, Cool.  Have you been able to extract the relevant patches yet?
[08:29]  * StevenK asks searching questions of libmad's PPC build
[08:30] <EvanCarroll> persia: they are all extracted and applied to the branch HDMI-Audio if the concern is that the branch is old, I can surely extract or find them
[08:30] <StevenK> doko: libmad itself uses -fPIC
[08:32] <doko> StevenK: or you try to install an earlier binutils version, and see if it works there
[08:32] <persia> EvanCarroll, No, it's that I'm doubting we'll be able to get them into intrepid from there, given the timeframe.  Still great news.
[08:33] <StevenK> doko: Right, they all use -fPIC
[08:34] <StevenK> I didn't check -lm, but if glibc isn't using -fPIC, I'd be shocked
[08:34] <EvanCarroll> persia: Aparently the patch set in HDMI-Audio, is old and there is a newer one that can applied to newer git
[08:35]  * persia isn't sure what is in intrepid today, or which is more useful
[08:35] <pitti> StevenK: there's a bunch of remaining libgnutls13 universe rdepends which aren't mentioned in bug 281561
[08:35] <pitti> gnash-common
[08:35] <pitti> kio-sword
[08:35] <pitti> libflashsupport
[08:35] <pitti> libgnutlsxx13
[08:35] <pitti> pnet-assemblies
[08:35] <StevenK> kio-sword is
[08:35] <persia> pitti, kio-sword will get a removal bug as soon as ichthux is fixed
[08:35] <pitti> oops, ignore libgnutlsxx13 of course
[08:36] <StevenK> libgnutlsxx13 is built from gnutls13 source
[08:36]  * ajmitch saw a removal bug on pnet-assemblies
[08:36] <ajmitch> surprised that it was still in the archive, tbh
[08:36] <persia> libflashsupport and gnash are special
[08:36] <StevenK> And pnet
[08:36] <StevenK> I should dig those up
[08:36] <pitti> persia: ichtux? by now this metapackage probably has more uninstallable dependencies than good ones..
[08:36] <StevenK> Bwahah
[08:36]  * pitti processes some removal bugs then
[08:36] <StevenK> libgnutlsxx13 has no rdepends, too
[08:37] <persia> pitti, Shouldn't.  txwikinger has been trying to keep up.
[08:37] <StevenK> Not sure what to do about libflashsupport
[08:37] <ajmitch> kill it off?
[08:37] <StevenK> gnash is waiting for asac
[08:38] <StevenK> Well, a few people have said kill it, and a few people have said keep it
[08:38] <StevenK> So I'm confused
[08:49] <directhex> who uses pnet?
[08:51] <pitti> bug 281411, I'll remove it
[08:52] <directhex> oh, there's a delay on mono 1.9.1+dfsg-4ubuntu1 - we want top get another bug fix backported to -4 before we tag & ship it
[09:02] <cjwatson> pitti: usplash> thanks
[09:14] <cjwatson> TheMuso: FYI I've removed partman-dmraid from intrepid, since it's been removed from Debian now
[09:14] <pitti> doko: bug 276739, I don't understand the rationale; does the netbeans source now include the IDE?
[09:16] <persia> pitti, That's leftovers from previous packaging efforts.  "netbeans" is the source package we want.
[09:16] <kwwii> seb128: one question about gconf...how do I set a bool? I tried with TRUE but that appears not to work...is it 1/0 ?
[09:17] <Mithrandir> kwwii: gconftool-2 --set --type bool /foo/bar true
[09:17] <pitti> persia: ok
[09:19] <seb128> kwwii: what are you tring to do?
[09:19] <seb128> grrrr compiz
[09:22] <persia> pitti: I've just filed 282561 on a closely related topic.
[09:22] <pitti> bug 282561
[09:23] <pitti> persia: done
[09:24] <persia> pitti, Thanks.  I think those two ought complete the netbeans confusion.
[09:39] <kwwii> seb128: trying to set the panelbg to stretch...I set it to TRUE but it returns an error so that can't be right
[09:40] <seb128> what is that? and how do you try to set it?
[09:40] <kwwii> Type mismatch: Expected `bool' got `string' for key /apps/panel/toplevels/top_panel_screen0/background/stretch
[09:41] <Mithrandir> kwwii: are you using "TRUE" or "true"?
[09:41] <kwwii> I set it in gconf-defaults in the ubuntu-artwork package with
[09:41] <kwwii> /apps/panel/default_setup/toplevels/bottom_panel/background/stretch   TRUE
[09:41] <seb128> use lowercase
[09:41] <kwwii> Mithrandir: hi, btw, and yes, TRUE
[09:41] <kwwii> seb128: cool, thanks for the help!
[09:41] <Mithrandir> kwwii: try true lowercase, as I told you thirty minutes ago. :-P
[09:41] <Mithrandir> also, hiya. :-)
[09:41] <kwwii> ;-)
[09:43] <mdz> pitti: someone suggested a patch for bug 264767, could you have a look?
[09:44] <mdz> pitti: I can't tell if it's a proper fix or just disabling the pulsating entirely
[09:47] <pitti> mdz: ah, usplash has *just* started to work for me again, with the -7 kernel
[09:47] <pitti> I think I saw this effect, too
[09:48] <pitti> mdz: yes, it basically disables pulsating for fsck completely
[09:49] <seb128> grrrr, mvo!!!
[09:49] <pitti> mdz: hm, whether that is desired is pretty much a matter of taste, I think
[09:49] <pitti> but we didn't do it in earlier releases
[09:49] <seb128> mvo: ;-)
[09:50] <cjwatson> well, you want pulsating if there's no other visible sign of progress, potentially a long time on one step, and no way to calculate the length in advance
[09:50] <pitti> I see how that got into Debian, but for the really long ones we already have our usplash fsck integration
[09:51] <cjwatson> I like Coucouf's approach
[09:51] <pitti> so reverting to the hardy behaviour makes sense for us, IMHO
[09:51] <pitti> (e. g. that patch)
[09:51] <cjwatson> if I'm reading it right it seems to enable pulsating only when it's going to take a while?
[09:52] <pitti> cjwatson: only if there's an actual fsck happening
[09:52] <pitti> but I discussed that case for hardy with mpt, and he said keeping the progress bar steady and reporting textual progress was better
[09:52] <mdz> pitti: I find it confusing that it pulsates even when no check is taking place
[09:52] <mdz> since the progress bar advances, advances, suddenly pulsates, advances some more, suddenly pulsates, then advances to the end
[09:52] <pitti> and for the actual fsck case we don't need pulsating either
[09:53] <pitti> we can report actual numbers and percentage there
[09:53] <cjwatson> pitti: I agree on textual progress
[09:53] <gaspa> pitti: just about that.
[09:54] <pitti> gaspa: your mail> that's indeed a tricky one
[09:54] <gaspa> actually status line with percent and steps of fsck overflow off the chars box.
[09:54] <pitti> cutting off the status is evil, then you don't see anything
[09:54] <gaspa> in fact.
[09:54] <gaspa> i prefer that it wrap.
[09:54] <pitti> I'd rather fix it to properly clean up
[09:54] <pitti> wrap? that looks even more ugly?
[09:55] <gaspa> the other solution is to enlarge the status width...
[09:55] <pitti> if we can't easily fix the status column, then we shouldn't use it at all and change the text instead, or so
[09:56] <gaspa> pitti: but why status should be limited? couldn't it take the whole line, if it need to?
[09:57] <pitti> gaspa: making the status column much wider to fit would be the best, indeed
[09:57] <pitti> even in 640x480 there's still quite a lot of unused space at the right, so it should fix
[09:57] <pitti> s/fix/fit/
[09:57] <gaspa> I agree, it's a theme specific parameters, though
[09:57] <gaspa> t
[10:01] <pitti> mdz: thanks for pointing out, I'll apply the relevant bits of that patch then (just tested in kvm to make triple-sure)
[10:01] <mdz> pitti: thank you
[10:03] <mdz> fortunately, I have not received any strong confirmation for bug 262567
[10:06] <mdz> pitti: bug 276857 is very confusing, X says that it finds no keyboard or mouse, but they turn up in lshal
[10:08] <jcristau> mdz: looks like hal isn't up when X starts
[10:09] <mdz> jcristau: but I had him add an lshal to the init script, and it works
[10:10] <jcristau> weird
[10:10] <seb128> mdz: ah, bug #271138 is likely the same issue, thanks for the other bug number ;-)
[10:12] <jcristau> i love how people say 'I have exactly the same problem.' and then go on to describe something unrelated
[10:12] <mdz> jcristau: do you know if X logs an error if it cannot connect to hal?  I see no such error in the log; the first one is that it cannot find a core pointer/keyboard
[10:13] <jcristau> (EE) config/hal: couldn't initialise context: (null) ((null))
[10:13] <jcristau> it logs that when libhal_ctx_init() fails
[10:15] <gaspa> pitti: in conclusion: what are you doing, and what could I do?
[10:16] <pitti> gaspa: I'm not working on this right now (will do later when I get back to my email)
[10:16] <pitti> gaspa: maybe you can run some tests with enlarging the width and see if it looks ok then?
[10:16] <gaspa> yep
[10:20] <asac> StevenK: ok i will do gnash today
[10:21] <mdz> jcristau: oh, I see, the error about core pointer/keyboard is normal (happens here too).  only the error at the end is meaningful
[10:24] <ogra> tjaalton, what do we do about the -nsc Xserver ?
[10:25]  * ogra just marked bug 281490 as duplicate of bug 265035 .... seems we need to take some action before release for that
[10:25] <tjaalton> ogra: what do you mean?
[10:25] <james_w> StevenK: thanks
[10:25] <ogra> tjaalton, it still chokes on nsc
[10:25] <jcristau> mdz: right, the first error is when parsing xorg.conf, so it's ok
[10:25] <james_w> and TheMuso, thanks for building.
[10:26] <ogra> and i still dont get why both got assigned to -psb ... its definately not at fault
[10:26] <tjaalton> ogra: ok, didn't know about that
[10:26] <james_w> one thing I can see is that it is defined as "extern char const mad_version[];" and then it tries to link against it as "char mad_version ();", should that work?
[10:26] <ogra> you assigned it to psb :)
[10:26] <tjaalton> hmm :)
[10:27] <ogra> nsc isnt ported yet and apparentl wornt be ported as far as i heard ... we should probably drop it (though i know lots of ltsp users that will kill me)
[10:27] <ogra> s/wont be ported/wont be ported in time/
[10:28] <tjaalton> ogra: it should be ported, the current version has a patch for that
[10:28] <tjaalton> ogra: but maybe it's not complete
[10:28] <ogra> yes, that was at least what Q-Funk told me
[10:29] <ogra> who does the debian package
[10:29] <tjaalton> the debian X team
[10:29]  * ogra rephrases
[10:30] <ogra> Q-Funk, who does the debian package for geode and nsc :)
[10:30] <tjaalton> ah :)
[10:30] <jcristau> no he doesn't
[10:30] <ogra> not anymore ?
[10:30] <ogra> oh
[10:30] <jcristau> he does geode
[10:30] <ogra> wasnt nsc the result of a package split of amd into geode and nsc ?
[10:31] <pitti> mdz: indeed, and the hal init script blocks until all devices and FDIs have been processed (the "coldplug" phase)
[10:31] <ogra> we had a lot of grief with his packages back when that split happened
[10:31] <pitti> mdz: I subscribed to the bug
[10:31] <ogra> i thought it wasall his work
[10:31] <tjaalton> nsc has been here for quite some time
[10:31] <jcristau> ogra: there was no split
[10:32] <tjaalton> geode should support those chips in the future
[10:32] <jcristau> there's a pciaccess patch for nsc in git, you may want to try that
[10:32] <ogra> jcristau, bug 219630
[10:33] <ogra> (only open that LP page if you have a lot of time ... its loooong) ;)
[10:33] <ogra> it looked like he maintained both packages
[10:33] <ogra> to me at least
[10:34] <ogra> but if tehre is a fix, we should indeed urgently get that
[10:37] <tjaalton> ogra: btw, that bug was about psb, not nsc
[10:37] <ogra> tjaalton, which one ?
[10:37] <tjaalton> ogra: bug 281490
[10:37] <tjaalton> er, 265035
[10:38] <ogra> no, i filed it against xserver-xorg originally, the breakage was on -vga and when that was gone it broke on -nsc with the same error message as on bug 281490
[10:39] <ogra> you were the one who assigned it to -psb (which i still dont understand as i said in the beginning)
[10:39] <tjaalton> (EE) Failed to load module "psb" (module requirement mismatch, 0)
[10:39] <tjaalton> that's why :)
[10:39] <ogra> but thats not the xf86GetPciVideoInfo message :)
[10:40] <tjaalton> hm right, but still
[10:40] <ogra> right ... :)
[10:42] <tjaalton> jcristau: the ubuntu package already has the patch, but seems like it doesn't work
[10:43] <jcristau> tjaalton: ah. then i guess someone with the hardware needs to fix it...
[10:43] <tjaalton> jcristau: exactly :)
[10:43]  * ogra just confirmed again
[10:44] <ogra> (EE) module ABI major version (1) doesn't match the server's version (4)
[10:44] <ogra> (EE) Failed to load module "psb" (module requirement mismatch, 0)
[10:44] <ogra> Xorg: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//nsc_drv.so: undefined symbol: xf86GetPciVideoInfo
[10:44] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~/Desktop/ltsp$ sudo apt-get remove xserver-xorg-video-nsc
[10:44] <ogra>  ....
[10:44] <ogra> ...
[10:44] <ogra> (EE) module ABI major version (1) doesn't match the server's version (4)
[10:44] <ogra> (EE) Failed to load module "psb" (module requirement mismatch, 0)
[10:44] <ogra> (++) Using config file: "/home/ogra/xorg.conf.new"
[10:44] <ogra> Xorg detected your mouse at device /dev/input/mice.
[10:44] <ogra> Please check your config if the mouse is still not
[10:44] <ogra> operational, as by default Xorg tries to autodetect
[10:44] <ogra> the protocol.
[10:44] <ogra> Your xorg.conf file is /home/ogra/xorg.conf.new
[10:44] <ogra> To test the server, run 'X -config /home/ogra/xorg.conf.new'
[10:44] <ogra> even though it has the EE line for psb, it properly creates the config
[10:45] <persia> Why is it trying to load psb?  Ideally, nothing should load psb, because it's known not to work.
[10:45] <ogra> it walks all available drivers
[10:46] <ogra> on a sidenote it detected everything correctly in the config file ...
[10:46] <jcristau> hrm.
[10:46] <jcristau> +#ifndef XSERVER_LIBPCIACCESS
[10:46] <jcristau> if (xf86GetPciVideoInfo()) {
[10:46] <jcristau> +#endif
[10:46] <tjaalton> that's what I was looking at as well..
[10:47] <ogra> tedg !!! i cant log out from ltsp sessions anymore
[10:47] <ogra> *sight*
[10:47] <ogra> -t
[10:49] <tjaalton> jcristau: umm, maybe running autoreconf would make it work?
[10:50] <jcristau> maybe pcpa screwed up
[10:51] <tjaalton> maybe, but looks like the package was not built against libpciaccess
[10:51] <jcristau> the configure.ac patch looks broken
[10:54] <mdz> tjaalton: bug 222796 indicates that the thinkpad_acpi default hotkey mask is not in fact correct
[10:55] <StevenK> asac_: Okay, cool.
[10:57]  * ogra is angry and files bug 282595
[10:57] <tjaalton> mdz: hmm ok, maybe the change should be reverted then. Would be nice if upstream told why it was bad to change the mask
[10:57] <cjwatson> ogra: if you want that to be RC then it needs to be nominated for release as well
[10:58] <ogra> cjwatson, ah, thanks, will do
[10:58] <cjwatson> ogra: (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting)
[10:58] <ogra> done
[10:58] <mdz> tjaalton: I have asked mjg59 on #ubuntu-kernel
[10:58] <ogra> thanks, i doubt i have any other RC bugs though ...
[10:59] <cjwatson> the LP translations import queue seems to have progressed through about three or four weeks' worth of imports over the weekend; glad to see it's catching up
[11:01] <tjaalton> jcristau: right, autoreconf didn't help at all
[11:02] <jcristau> tjaalton: it's missing the AC_CHECK_DECL(XSERVER_LIBPCIACCESS, ..)
[11:04] <tjaalton> jcristau: yeah..
[11:07] <asac> Mirv: are intrepid langpacks ok?
[11:08] <ogra> woah, the guest session just locks up ltsp
[11:09] <asac> ogra: ffox?
[11:09] <ogra> grrr .... we had deliberately disabled user switching in fusa
[11:09] <Mirv> asac: yep, as far as Firefox is concerned
[11:09] <persia> Hrm?  Isn't that what the "us" in "fusa" represents?
[11:10] <asac> Mirv: ok cool. could you please verify that language-pack-fi-base contains the xulrunner-1.9 translations ? e.g. dpkg -L language-pack-fi-base  | grep xulrunner-addons
[11:10] <ogra> asac, no, i'm just discovering that a) all ltsp related fusa patches were dropped b) you cant log out anymore and c) the gnome-power-manager patches that prevented users from shutting down the server seem to be dropped as well
[11:10] <ogra> *SIGH*
[11:10] <highvoltage> ouch.
[11:10] <asac> ogra: how comes?
[11:10] <Mirv> asac: yes it does, xulrunner-1.9-fi.jar among else
[11:10] <ogra> and beyond that i can switch to a guest session that kills the server
[11:11] <asac> Mirv: great. thanks for confirming
[11:11] <asac> Mirv: do you have a hardy install?
[11:11] <ogra> asac, new fusa, missing patches or dropped patches i wasnt told about :/
[11:12] <asac> poor ogra
[11:12] <asac> ogra: there still is time ;)
[11:12] <seb128> ogra: talk to ted, he's the one working on those
[11:12] <ogra> seb128, yes, i just didnt expect that much fun that late in the release :/
[11:13] <seb128> ogra: that's not late, those changes are there for a while
[11:13] <asac> ogra: why wasnt that reported earlier in the cycle? do ltsp users only test at the very end?
[11:13] <seb128> ogra: the fusa applet didn't change for weeks now
[11:13] <highvoltage> asac: in many cases, yes (sorry)
[11:13] <ogra> seb128, the debconf note and the switch only happened on thurs/fri on all my systems here
[11:14] <ogra> seb128, bu it wasnt the default logout option until last week
[11:14] <seb128> ogra: ah right, the configuration migration is new, debconf note?
[11:14] <asac> yeah. its a common problem for NM too. all the wierd chipsets get on it short before release
[11:14] <ogra> yes
[11:14] <ogra> a broken note btw
[11:14] <seb128> ogra: it was on new install for weeks, there was just no configuration migration on upgrade
[11:14] <ogra> saying (null) as header, referring to an "update" button i dont get in german
[11:14] <seb128> mvo: read that?
[11:15]  * ogra was sure he saw a fusa changelog entry that the ltsp patches were forward ported 
[11:15] <mvo> ogra: is your update-notifier up-to-date (and/or restarted)?
[11:15] <cjwatson> ogra: debconf? are you sure you don't mean the notification icon?
[11:16] <ogra>  * 71_no_ltsp_user_switching_option.patch: Refressing to new build and making
[11:16] <ogra>      sure that LTSP_CLIENT is checkd on GConf key change also.
[11:16] <ogra> cjwatson, yes, i meant that, sorry i'm very upset atm ...
[11:16] <ogra> mvo, yes
[11:16] <persia> mvo, There's no "Name:" in the note.
[11:16] <mvo> ogra: hm, so the update script needs to check for ltsp too?
[11:16] <mvo> persia: yes, that is a feature, the new update-notifier should deal with that correctly
[11:17] <ogra> mvo, well, that wont help on fresh installs
[11:17] <ogra> fusa used to not offer user switching at all, now it offers the guest session, picking guest kills my system
[11:17] <mvo> ogra: right, what about upgrades? should I add code that checks for ltsp? what is the right thing to do here?
[11:17] <ogra> fixing fusa is the only thing i fear
[11:18] <Mirv> asac: I have one hardy install, and can confirm the reported problems that the -proposed language packs (20080929) break firefox translations in hardy.
[11:18] <mvo> ogra: ok, thanks
[11:18] <ogra> you cant rely on the fact that the sysadmin doesnt update while sitting on the server
[11:18] <ogra> which means it will become the default logout option
[11:18] <ogra> for all users
[11:19] <ogra> though logout does nothing because fusa only respects gdm it seems
[11:19] <asac> Mirv: are there translations in xulrunner-addons and firefox-addons?
[11:19] <asac> Mirv: proposed? could you please test the PPA?
[11:19] <asac> Mirv: i think this is about the cure which is ment to be in PPA
[11:20] <asac> ArneGoetje: err, where is that PPA?
[11:21]  * StevenK checks if he can kill -6
[11:22] <StevenK> Hah, I can.
[11:23] <StevenK> pitti: Once gnash is fixed, I think libltdl3 can *finally* be NBS'd out. mit-scheme remains on i386, but I have no idea how to fix it, and it's been broken since Hardy.
[11:23] <slytherin> pitti: need some help. The binary for libxstream-java was eaten by LP when moving from multiverse to universe and back again. (bug #268538). Any idea how can it be restored?
[11:23] <persia> tjaalton, About bug #274203 : is there any way to just blacklist everything that wants to be a joystick by default?  Most users won't have (or know to install) xserver-xorg-input-joystick, and even when installed, it breaks use of joystick+mouse (e.g. for FPS games).
[11:25] <Mirv> asac: the -proposed packages seem to delete the ff/xr translations that were in the language-pack-fi-base package. having reverted to versions in hardy-updates that work, installing update from the langpack PPA breaks translations again
[11:25] <tkamppeter> Can someone have a look at the buildds? On HPLIP I got
[11:25] <tkamppeter> libcups2-dev: Depends: libgnutls-dev
[11:25] <Mirv> asac: in the PPA case, the translation files are there, but Firefox complains that firefox translation is not compatible with ff 3.0.3. (xulrunner works, though)
[11:25] <asac> Mirv: so is there anything in those ppa langpacks?
[11:26] <tkamppeter> libcups2-dev: Depends: libgnutls-dev but it is not installable
[11:26] <asac> Mirv: *sigh*
[11:26] <asac> Mirv: ok. thats a launchpad bug then most likely :(
[11:26] <asac> Mirv: what size do the .jar files have?
[11:27] <asac> Mirv: and what maxversion/version is in install.rdf for xul and ffox
[11:28] <Mirv> asac: xr 111kB, ff 48kB, ie. the same as on this working intrepid installation
[11:29] <Mirv> asac: xr version 1.9.0.3, maxversion 1.9.0.*, ff version 3.0, maxversion 3.0
[11:29] <asac> oh dear
[11:29] <asac> that sounds like a launchpad-doesnt-like-some-kind-of-security-uploads issue
[11:29] <asac> Mirv: thanks
[11:30] <Mirv> asac: no prob. good that intrepid now works, anyway.
[11:30]  * asac goes and looks what is in the full hardy export
[11:30] <asac> yeah.
[11:38] <asac> ok so the delta back from 9th sep is ok; next one is 29th sep which contains an old export :/
[11:41] <ogra> pitti, did you write the guest session patch for fusa ?
[11:42]  * ogra sees various checks for LTSP_CLIENT in that patch which doesnt seem to do anything at all
[11:42] <pitti> ogra: yes, the original one; ted ported it to the new one
[11:42] <ogra> ah
[11:43] <pitti> slytherin: hm, I guess we can only upload a build1 and shove it through NEW
[11:44] <Keybuk> cjwatson: is the Launchpad auto-bug-closing stuff actually working?
[11:45] <tjaalton> persia: not really.. and that crasher should be fixed, but maybe it crashes somewhere else now
[11:46] <persia> tjaalton, I've several devices (joystick, gamepad, half-keyboard for FPS) that can crash X with a single button press.  What's the best information to get you to make it not crash?
[11:46] <jcristau> persia: gdb backtrace
[11:46] <persia> jcristau, Of X?
[11:46] <jcristau> if X crashes, yes
[11:47]  * persia cringes.
[11:47] <persia> Is there a way to get apport to do this, or should I be attaching gdb to X remotely, installing dbgsym manually, and calling bt ?
[11:53] <mdz> sladen: fiddling with thinkpad hotkey mask issues, are you around?
[11:53] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I've seen it work recently, yes
[11:54] <tjaalton> persia: apport should work, in theory at least
[11:57] <Hobbsee> mvo!
[11:58] <StevenK> pitti: NBS cleaned out
[11:58] <pitti> :)
[11:59] <StevenK> pitti: Do you agree about breaking mit-scheme?
[11:59] <kwwii> asac: did the rounded gtk entry bug-fix patch make it into firefox for intrepid?
[11:59] <pitti> StevenK: if it didn't even work in hardy, sure
[11:59] <slytherin> pitti: Ok. I will ask geser or persia.
[12:00] <cjwatson> Keybuk: e.g. bug 271796 just got automatically closed
[12:08] <seb128> Keybuk: you were asking about the gnome-screensaver bug? that's because the bug had no gnome-screensaver task listed
[12:09] <seb128> Keybuk: the bug need to have a task corresponding to the package uploaded otherwise launchpad just does nothing (it would make sense to add a comment in the bug about the upload though)
[12:09] <seb128> hum
[12:10] <seb128> "Depends: libgnutls-dev (>= 1.4.0) but it is not installable"
[12:10] <seb128> StevenK: do you know about that?
[12:10] <StevenK> seb128: Nope
[12:10] <StevenK> We didn't remove it yet
[12:10] <StevenK> Unless pitti has
[12:10] <seb128> StevenK: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18496352/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.gst-plugins-good0.10_0.10.10.2-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[12:10] <StevenK> Hmmm
[12:11] <pitti> no, I just moved gnutls13 and opencdk to universe
[12:11] <pitti> but libgnutls-dev is built by gnutls26, isn't it?
[12:11] <StevenK> There your answer might be
[12:11] <pitti> urgh, so soyuz moved gnutls26's binaries to universe when I moved gnutls13?
[12:11] <StevenK> It did?
[12:11] <pitti> checking
[12:12] <pitti> bah, apparently it did
[12:12] <persia> jcristau, I've been trying https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Backtracing but I can't seem to get gdb attached, and then send the crash event to X.  Any suggestions on alternate ways to discover this?
[12:13] <pitti> fixed
[12:13] <jcristau> persia: over ssh?
[12:13]  * persia tries more
[12:13] <StevenK> pitti: Not until the next publisher run, surely?
[12:13] <pitti> yes, of course
[12:14]  * StevenK tries to fix octave-gpc
[12:15]  * StevenK will say "Lalala, what's lpia?" when NBSing out libhdf5-serial-1.6.5-0
[12:16] <persia> hey.  Some of us use that arch!
[12:16] <persia> (not that it matters for that package)
[12:16] <highvoltage> StevenK: hehe
[12:16] <StevenK> Or it's rdepends
[12:16] <StevenK> Hmmmm.
[12:17] <StevenK> How did we lose octave2.1-headers, and Debian didn't?
[12:18] <persia> There was some confusion with the octave transition.  I think sistpoty might know about it.
[12:19] <wgrant> (pitti) superseded by octave3.0
[12:19] <pitti> that's what I was told by shermann
[12:19] <pitti> \sh: still remember the octave 3.0 transition? ^
[12:20] <wgrant> Why should it ahve stuck around, StevenK?
[12:20] <StevenK> wgrant: octave-gpc still Build-Depends on it
[12:20] <wgrant> Ah.
[12:22] <pitti> slangasek, cjwatson: I'd appreciated if one of you could review/ack my gparted/hardy SRU for bug 37768
[12:25] <mvo> pitti: I see a some duplicates of bug 145360 where I can not find a retraced stacktrace in the report but that  got marked duplicate. is that because apport does not attach the retraced stacktrace when it things its a duplicate?
[12:25] <pitti> mvo: yes, that's what usually happens
[12:26] <mvo> pitti: those we can be certain that its not a artifact because the stracetrace contained only "??" ?
[12:26] <mvo> s/those/so/
[12:26] <pitti> mvo: those are never auto-duped
[12:26] <pitti> mvo: as soon as there is a single ?? it is failed-retrace
[12:26] <mvo> ok, thnaks
[12:26] <mvo> thanks
[12:29] <pitti> cjwatson: FYI, linux-debug is now built with a .ddeb extension, so that it's on ddebs.u.c.
[12:30] <Hobbsee> mvo: is there anything specific that i need to know about modifying unattended-upgrades?
[12:31] <mvo> Hobbsee: don't break it
[12:31] <mvo> Hobbsee: nothing other than this
[12:31] <mvo> Hobbsee: what do you want to modify?
[12:31] <Hobbsee> mvo: it still refers to hardy.
[12:32] <mvo> Hobbsee: d'oh
[12:32] <Hobbsee> mvo: oh, i thought it might have been some frankenstinean apt-like thing, or something.
[12:32] <wgrant> I doubt you can not break unattended-upgrades; users manage to remove half of GNOME even with attended ones...
[12:32] <ogra> seb128, would you mind a patch to gnome-session that hides the shutdown item in the system menu if LTSP_CLIENT is set ? its not critical as the action is a no-op but would be nice to not have it shown
[12:32] <Hobbsee> mvo: do you want to fix it, or are you happy for me to?
[12:32] <mvo> Hobbsee: I can update it too, I don't mind, just make sure you update bzr as well please
[12:32] <Hobbsee> mvo: ahhh, k.
[12:33] <Hobbsee> will do.
[12:33] <seb128> ogra: that would rather be a gnome-panel patch no? but I'm fine adding ltsp patches just ping me for review before uploaded and use bzr so mvo is happy too ;-)
[12:33] <mvo> Hobbsee: ok, let me know when its ready please
[12:33] <mvo> bzr!
[12:33] <ogra> seb128, will do, ah, gnome-panel is it then :)
[12:35] <StevenK> checking for Octave version... 3.0.1
[12:35] <StevenK> configure: error: version of octave must be 2.1.57 or later
[12:35]  * StevenK kicks it
[12:37] <directhex> StevenK, does it really work with 3, or is it a simple "looking for wrong pkg-config entry" thing?
[12:37] <mvo> pitti: would it be possible to get the retraced stacktrace in the duplicates too? for the compiz report it would be useful to see how the line numbers changed
[12:38] <seb128> mvo: the issue is that somebody would have to check those for private informations then
[12:38] <seb128> mvo: now we can mark the duplicates public because we clean the bugs before
[12:38] <pitti> mvo: sure, I can revert the change; someone, I think bdmurray, asked for removing the stuff and make the bug public
[12:39] <pitti> mvo: and it also avoids quite a lot of bug mail spam
[12:39] <mvo> hm, I see
[12:39] <Hobbsee> mvo: oh man...you've still got references to gutsy in here too!
[12:39] <seb128> pitti: speaking about the retracer I gave some human readable names to the screen there
[12:39] <pitti> so I'm not quite sure what the right thing is here
[12:39] <mvo> Hobbsee: tsss
[12:39] <pitti> seb128: cool, that's possible?
[12:39] <seb128> pitti: yes, look on ronne ;-)
[12:40] <pitti> nice!
[12:40] <asac> kwwii: no. 1.9.0 branch doesnt get that kind of fixes anymore
[12:41] <asac> kwwii: upstream is a bit harder about branch rules now that they have a quicker release cycle
[12:42] <Hobbsee> mvo: pushed to bzr.  Can I upload it too?  :)
[12:43] <persia> jcristau, I installed some -dbg packages, and crashed X a couple times.  My stacktrace is still two lines, with #1 at 0x0000000000000000, so I'm guessing there's something wrong at a fairly high level.  I submitted the bug to apport, to see if the retracer would be able to get any more information.
[12:43] <mvo> Hobbsee: sure, looks fine
[12:43] <Hobbsee> hmm.  it didn't show up my mail right.
[12:44] <persia> jcristau, It's bug #282640, if you want to take a look before apport gets to it.
[12:46] <pitti> Riddell, ScottK2: in order to fix bug 274189 I need to teach jockey to start itself through kdesu or kdesudo; which one should be used nowadays, and in which package is it? kdesudo?
[12:48] <Hobbsee> mvo: uploaded :)
[12:48] <mvo> thanks Hobbsee
[12:48] <Hobbsee> mvo: you're welcome
[12:49] <Riddell> pitti: /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kdesu
[12:50] <pitti> Riddell: ah, thanks; that's in which package?
[12:50] <Riddell> pitti: it's in kdebase-runtime
[12:50] <pitti> splendid, thanks
[12:50] <pitti> hm, now if only jockey-kde --check would actually produce an icon in gnome-panel...
[12:50] <jcristau> persia: iz private :)
[12:51] <wgrant> It's really, really private.
[12:51] <wgrant> Or my membership in ~ubuntu-dev has expired.
[12:51]  * persia subscribes more people.
[12:52] <ogra> persia, keeps it in his closet :)
[12:52] <persia> It's *really* private.
[12:52] <persia> jcristau, You should be able to open it.  If you can't, that's an LP bug.
[12:52] <persia> wgrant, You too, now.
[12:53] <persia> apport keeps bugs *super* private until the coredump is processed.
[12:53] <wgrant> Hmm.
[12:53] <wgrant> I though we were subscribed from the start.
[12:53] <persia> No, not until the retracer has run.
[12:53] <wgrant> Maybe I just never get to them quickly enough.
[12:53] <wgrant> Well, I guess I never see them.
[12:54] <persia> Right.  You'd only know if you reported bugs with apport, and watched :)
[12:54] <jcristau> meh. i thought i'd fixed GKVE
[12:54] <wgrant> Yes,
[12:54] <persia> Indeed.  The changelog gives that impression, but ...
[12:54] <cjwatson> pitti: sorry, can't deal with 37768 at the moment :(
[12:54] <cjwatson> pitti: linux-debug> ah, thanks; please mention that in the bug if you haven't already
[12:54] <pitti> cjwatson: no problem; I just pinged you becuase you created the hardy task
[12:55] <pitti> cjwatson: done
[12:55] <cjwatson> the patch makes sense though
[12:56] <persia> tjaalton, I've a concern about the idea of adding any joystick that is reported to crash X to the .fdi file.  This doesn't sound like something that can be maintained.  Is that really the only way to go about it?  I'm not concerned about joysticks not working in X, only about them breaking other things.
[12:56] <jcristau> persia: the idea is to fix the server so it doesn't crash..
[12:56] <persia> (By "not working in X" I mean "not detected as XInput devices")
[12:56] <persia> jcristau, OK.  That works.  I'm just responding to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/274203/comments/40
[12:56] <wgrant> apport is being a bit sluggish.
[12:56] <kwwii> asac: so that means it'll have to wait until intrepid+1? (I am asking because I need to change all our gtkrc's and doing it in advance will break things)
[12:57] <persia> Indeed, but I think I had most of the -dbg packages installed.  Stacktrace.txt is mostly readable (and completely different than what gdb showed me)
[12:57] <asac> kwwii: yes. ffox 3.1 will have that feature
[12:57] <asac>  /bugfix
[12:57] <asac> 3.1 will be our main browser in jaunty unless something unexpected happens
[12:58] <tjaalton> persia: the priority is to make it not crash, and after that add support for -joystick to pick up the device
[12:59] <persia> tjaalton, OK.  That works for me.  Given that most of the tools that use joysticks currently break when they don't have exclusive access, I'm tempted not to add anything to the .fdi file, but that's more because I don't want to fuss with SDL than because it's the right solution.
[13:00] <Keybuk> seb128: oh, I see - it was on gnome-desktop
[13:09] <kwwii> asac: great, thanks
[13:14] <mdz> tjaalton: I've put a test package into my PPA, could you test it on your thinkpads? (bug 222796)
[13:14] <mdz> (anyone else with a thinkpad: testing appreciated)
[13:14] <crevette> mdz: HELLO TESTING WHAT?
[13:14] <crevette> oupssss
[13:14] <crevette> sorry
[13:15] <mdz> crevette: install the new hotkey-setup package from my PPA and check that your hotkeys still work (or if they aren't working, that they start working)
[13:15] <crevette> Ok, I'll test on my t61
[13:17] <crevette> I'm coming for a regression on my webcam, does my bug is clear: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-meta/+bug/282641
[13:17] <crevette> and is it open against right component
[13:17] <crevette> ?
[13:18] <wgrant> crevette: No - the package you want is linux.
[13:18] <crevette> tx wgrant
[13:18] <mdz> wgrant: just fixed that
[13:18] <mdz> crevette: also, please report bugs using "ubuntu-bug" in the future
[13:19] <mdz> crevette: see
[13:19] <mdz> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
[13:19] <wgrant> mdz: Thanks.
[13:19] <mvo> ogra: if you work on gnome panel, please let me know, I will have to do a upload today too I think
[13:19] <mdz> crevette: that will attach your hardware info (which is missing from the bug)
[13:19] <ogra> mvo, ok, i just started
[13:21] <crevette> mdz: I didn't get you about "ubuntu-bug", whayt are you talking about?
[13:21] <crevette> ah okay
[13:21] <crevette> I use to report on website for ages :)
[13:22] <crevette> I'll try ubuntu-bugs now so
[13:24] <Ng> mdz: do you want comments of it not breaking anything on the bug? all the hotkeys I know to have previously worked on my X300 still do
[13:25] <mdz> Ng: yes please
[13:25] <Ng> k
[13:25] <mdz> Ng: I know it fixes the problem I found, but I need regression testing
[13:26] <Ng> done
[13:26] <ogra> meh, shutdown sits in an enum ... thast harder than i thought
[13:29] <tjaalton> mdz: works on my X61 like before, so no regressions there
[13:30] <mdz> tjaalton: thanks
[13:32] <pitti> Riddell: do I really need to call kdesu with full path, or is /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/ in $PATH under Kubuntu?
[13:33] <mdz> does anyone have an nvidia-based thinkpad?
[13:34] <Keybuk> mdz: my nvidia-based machine is a desktop
[13:35] <mdz> Keybuk: there are a couple of places in hotkey-setup where it special-cases nvidia-based thinkpads
[13:35] <Riddell> pitti: it's not in the path.  kdesudo is in the path but it's possible people will uninstall that so /usr/lib/kde4/libexec/kdesu is more reliable
[13:35] <mdz> mjg59 says this is because the driver didn't/sometimes-still-doesn't support xrandr 1.2
[13:36] <Keybuk> right, if you have it in TwinView, for example
[13:36] <Keybuk> or Xinerama enabled
[13:37] <ogra> seb128, is teher a reason my gconf-editor is gotten so extremely slow ?
[13:37] <seb128> ogra: no idea, mine is as fast as usual
[13:38] <ogra> (slow enough for compiz to grey out the window very often if i jump between items)
[13:38] <ogra> hm, k might be me if nobody else complains
[13:38]  * ogra testbuilds gnome-panel to test the change
[13:39] <tseliot> mvo: ping (you know why)
[13:39] <mvo> tseliot: today!
[13:40] <tseliot> mvo: really?
[13:40] <mvo> tseliot: yeah
[13:40] <mdz> along with slangasek's rfkill fix, the hotkeys on my thinkpads now work as well as they did in 8.04
[13:40] <tseliot> mvo: \o/
[13:40]  * sladen looks at the mask fix
[13:41] <mdz> sladen: in particular, I'd like to confirm that I understood the logic for thinkpad-keys correctly
[13:42] <Keybuk> it would be nice to put some effort into eliminating all of these pieces in jaunty
[13:42] <Keybuk> acpi-support, hotkey-setup, vbetool, etc.
[13:43] <mvo> tseliot: what is the bugnumber for it?
[13:43] <liw> Keybuk, will Ubuntu use upstart natively, ditching run levels, and rc.[0-9]d?
[13:44] <ogra> liw, thas a massive amount of work ...
[13:44] <ion_> liw: Yes, but not yet.
[13:44] <ogra> espectially if you take universe into account ...
[13:44] <ogra> the change wil likely span over several releases
[13:44] <mvo> tseliot: "    - remove input devices from xorg.conf (handled via hal now)" <- correct?
[13:45] <tseliot> mvo: yes, that's correct
[13:45] <mvo> tseliot: and xkit is installed by default now on {ku,u}ubuntu-desktop?
[13:45] <tseliot> mvo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/+bug/247608
[13:45] <mvo> thanks tseliot!
[13:46] <tseliot> mvo: jockey-common and some other stuff depend on python-xkit
[13:46] <mvo> tseliot: excellent, thanks
[13:47] <tseliot> mvo: :-)
[13:48] <ogra> yay, my gnome-panel patch works :)
[13:49] <seb128> pitti: did you change the gnutls binary back to main in intrepid?
[13:49] <Keybuk> liw: I like how my answer is so well known, other people answer it for me :p
[13:50] <Keybuk> I have a veritable bunch of work to do from jaunty onwards, some of it is foundation laying, and other bits will actually have an effect on boot speed
[13:51] <pitti> seb128: yes, I did; was a soyuz glitch
[13:51] <seb128> pitti: ok because they are still in universe, I guess publisher is still running or something?
[13:53] <pitti> seb128: hm, maybe; it should be done by now, though
[13:53] <pitti> libgnutls-dev | 2.4.1-1build1 |      intrepid | amd64, hppa, i386, ia64, lpia, powerpc, sparc
[13:53] <pitti> seb128: in main, feel free to retry the build
[13:53]  * pitti is off for a bit
[13:54] <seb128> pitti: retried, thanks, seem they have just been updated between my ping and now ;-)
[13:54] <ogra> mvo, where is the bzr tree for gnome-panel ? debian/control has no hint
[13:55]  * ogra also files bug 282669 for it with the fix attached
[13:55] <ogra> *filed
[13:55] <cjwatson> liw: note that using upstart natively doesn't necessarily mean ditching runlevels, as event.d jobs can trigger on runlevel changes
[13:57] <ogra> seb128, ^^^ fix included, i think its small enough
[13:57] <seb128> ogra: there was no need to open a bug, you can just upload the change if you want, wait for mvo's reply about bzr though
[13:57] <ogra> yep
[13:58] <ogra> seb128, well, i wanted you to take a look at the change first :)
[13:58] <seb128> I did, the change look correct and is trivial enough
[13:58] <ogra> thanks :)
[13:59] <ion_> Could someone please apply http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18250664/iconv.debdiff to fix LP #278195? Thanks.
[14:10] <mdz> sladen: thoughts?
[14:14] <slytherin> mvo: has slomo already talked about the broken codec installation magic?
[14:17] <crevette> kees: /msg hello
[14:21] <crevette> mdz: hotkey-setup seems to work fine for me on my T61
[14:22] <mdz> crevette: thank you
[14:32] <crevette> mdz: perhaps this is totaaly unrelated but the duration between pressing the light button and the menu apperance is long (0,7 sec) and it feelsing sluggish if it press the same button several times
[14:33] <crevette> the light change is not change immediatly
[14:33] <crevette> s/change/request/
[14:40] <mdz> crevette: yes, that's known, and not a regression
[14:41] <mdz> crevette: unless it worked better before you installed that update
[14:41] <crevette> okay, fine then
[14:54] <sladen> crevette: ps aux | grep thinkpad-keys   is it in polling mode?
[14:55] <lool> pygtk failed to build on ppc in Xvfb startup; I suspect the chroot is the issue as the previous version built fine and the new one built fine on other arches
[14:55] <lool> Who could I poke to unbreak the chroot?
[14:55] <crevette> sladen: it returns no process
[14:56] <seb128> lool: try infinity I would say
[14:57] <sladen> crevette:
[14:58] <lool> seb128: thanks
[15:04] <seb128> superm1: hey, any idea about bug #282325?
[15:06] <superm1> crevette, ^
[15:07] <superm1> seb128, I've seen the same thing, crevette and slytherin were the last to look at it.  If they don't have any update for it, i'll try to look at the code once I make more progress on the KDE solid stuff.  It's turning into a rather large mess :(
[15:08] <seb128> superm1: I pinged crevette about it but he has no idea about the issue apparently
[15:08] <seb128> superm1: ok thanks
[15:11] <lool> Actually pygtk failed to build on all real chroots
[15:13] <lool> tjaalton: I see you pulled a new xvfb in intrepid a couple of days ago; I suspect it broke xvfb-run for pygtk
[15:14] <crevette> superm1: I'm not really fluent in bluez code
[15:14] <crevette> I need to see with upstream developer
[15:15] <crevette> hello by the way
[15:21] <davmor2> mvo: ping
[15:21] <mvo> davmor2: pong
[15:22] <davmor2> mvo: is it you whose written the update config script to remove the log out icon from the panel?
[15:22] <mvo> davmor2: yes
[15:23] <davmor2> mvo: Is it meant to move the fusa icon to the top right too?
[15:23] <mvo> davmor2: yes
[15:23] <mvo> davmor2: what does it do for you?
[15:24] <davmor2> mvo: It leaves it to the left of n-m applet where the quick switch user applet was.  Do you need to reboot with it at all?
[15:25] <mvo> davmor2: the dialog that comes up should tell you to logout to complete it, did that appear?
[15:26] <dholbach> james_w: in the "eliminating debdiffs" thread - what did you think about the "patch triage" idea?
[15:26] <james_w> dholbach: what's that?
[15:26] <james_w> going through the "bugs with patches" list?
[15:26] <ogra> #1
[15:26] <dholbach> james_w: it was my last reply to the thread (to Colin's mail)
[15:27] <davmor2> mvo: The dialog read the same I think I'll double check should be too long :)
[15:27] <superm1> crevette, well if you can try to look if you can make sense of the code, that'd be good at this point.  i probably won't be able to until later in the week
[15:28] <mvo> davmor2: there is a bug in the gnome panel it seems that require logout/login after the script is run. could yu please check if the button is in the right position after the logout?
[15:28] <superm1> crevette, and hello :)
[15:28] <mvo> (or rather on the next login)
[15:28] <davmor2> mvo: double checking now
[15:29] <tjaalton> lool: somehow doubt it :)
[15:29] <davmor2> mvo: is it down to the way it locks to the panel by any chance?
[15:30] <davmor2> mvo: yeah it's in the right place I'll double check the dialog in the windows though
[15:31] <mvo> davmor2: thanks! not sure if its related to the "lock to panel" option, I may try
[15:33] <davmor2> mvo: I found it frustrating when adding snapshot applet that in order to get it by the power applet I need to switch of lock on all the applets re-arrange and lock everything back down.
[15:34]  * mvo nods
[15:37] <mdz> cjwatson: were the notes/actions from the release meeting mailed out anywhere? I can't find them
[15:37] <mdz> I know I signed up for a few things but am not sure if I have done them all yet
[15:38] <lool> mdz: if you like the log: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/10/10/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
[15:38] <mdz> lool: I think we ought to have a proper summary, but thanks
[15:38] <dholbach> james_w: for a smooth transition from "millions of patches in LP" to "~0" by using 1) a tag that basically says "we know this is a patch, it's documented and we know where it's from, etc", 2) the sponsorship queue
[15:39] <crevette> superm1: I'm blocked 1 hour feeding my son, i'll try to see after
[15:39] <lool> mdz: Yeah, this was just to unblock you
[15:39] <cjwatson> mdz: I was going to refer you to mootbot for the time being but it seems not to have a record of that meeting despite allegedly logging it (?)
[15:39] <lool> mdz: (mootbot log not being uploaded yet)
[15:39] <cjwatson> mdz: I haven't seen a proper hand-written one yet
[15:39] <cjwatson> slangasek: -
[15:39] <cjwatson> blink, whatever that was
[15:39] <lool> cjwatson: the logs are pushed manually by someone from time to time
[15:40] <dholbach> james_w: so we don't have to interpret the bug status as a patch status, and write document what needs to be done for stage 1 and 2, also it will help us so that sponsors only need to check the actual programming changes in the patch and not if it applies, etc - if somebody adds a changelog entry along the way, even better
[15:42] <james_w> dholbach: yeah, I think it would work quite well. Is it possible to get notifications of new patches?
[15:43] <dholbach> james_w: AFAIK there's only the huge list
[15:43] <dholbach> james_w: but I'm sure that a bunch of bugdays/bugjams would help with that :)
[15:44] <ogra> mvo, have you seen bug 282669 ? (and where is the bzr branch, debian/control doesnt point to any)
[15:46] <mvo> ogra: I haven't. I have a local bzr tree, but feel free to just upload, I will merge manually, I haven't pushed my branch
[15:46] <ogra> oki
[15:48] <ogra> sigh, quilt
[15:48]  * ogra curses
[15:53] <mvo> ogra: I share your pain
[15:55]  * ogra testbuilds to make sure he didnt make quilt errors 
[16:10]  * ogra hugs james_w ... thanks for the netbook-launcher upload
[16:11] <ogra> though you didnt pull the new upstream
[16:11] <s0u][ight> is there someone around with the iwl4965 device?
[16:11] <james_w> ogra: there was only one change upstream. Neil is going to port the rest of the fixes this week.
[16:11] <ogra> ah, k
[16:12] <davmor2> mvo: upgrade is saying 30-ish minutes for the packages to be installed will you still be around?
[16:12] <mvo> davmor2: yes
[16:12] <s0u][ight> where can i find the devs of wireless network device drivers?
[16:13] <davmor2> mvo: cool :)
[16:41] <unfo> hi all.  My doctor is a total noob.  Maybe things are different now, but last time I checked, she didn't know how to use the Location bar.  So to get to CNN, she would Google for www.cnn.com.  Should we change the ubufox start page to www.google.com to help people like her?
[16:42] <Laney> The ubuntu start page has a google box
[16:42] <davmor2> mvo: yes the window has popped-up I must of hit update and close pretty much straight away and missed it.
[16:42] <Laney> Which gets the focus by default
[16:43] <mvo> davmor2: ok, so everything is normal?
[16:44] <davmor2> just rebooting now
[16:45] <unfo> Laney: I dunno if that would work for people as noobish as my doctor.
[16:45] <unfo> all : what do you think?
[16:45] <davmor2> mvo: Yeah fine after reboot.  It took a little while for the lightbulb to pop up but other than that it's fine
[16:45] <unfo> Laney: I suspect that http://start.ubuntu.com/8.04/ is too different from the Firefox Start screen she is used to, and that it would confuse her.
[16:45] <cjwatson> unfo: I think if you assume people don't read, can't absorb any kind of information, etc. then at some point you have to conclude that helping them is going to impede others
[16:45] <davmor2> unfo: it already does
[16:46] <cjwatson> unfo: life in OS design is a trade-off
[16:46] <cjwatson> unfo: I would expect (and hope!) that doctors are generally intelligent people capable of absorbing information even if they happen not to know it to start with (and if not shouldn't you be worried about them being your doctor? :-) )
[16:47] <unfo> cjwatson:  no, I don't care that my doctor doesn't care and doesn't want to learn anything about computers.  she is an excellent doctor.
[16:47] <cjwatson> unfo: the only way to find out whether it will work or not is to try
[16:47] <unfo> here's the only solution I could think of.  use a traditional "Firefox Start"-like webpage, but at the bottom, when you scroll down, have a few screens of Ubuntu-related info.
[16:47] <cjwatson> unfo: I didn't mean to imply she wasn't; I meant to imply that given that she is a good doctor, the ability to absorb information is generally a transferable skill
[16:48] <unfo> cjwatson:  I'm not offended at all.  Just always keep in mind that to some people, a computer is like a toaster.
[16:48] <cjwatson> unfo: I would suggest trying it (in a hands-off style; see whether she picks it up in a few minutes without helping her) rather than making assumptions
[16:48] <unfo> cjwatson:  They assume, "plug it in and it works."
[16:48] <cjwatson> unfo: sure, but we can't design for people with *no* ability to do *anything*
[16:48] <unfo> cjwatson:  no.  I see my doctor rarely.  She is happy with Windows.  She is the last person I would ever consider converting.
[16:48] <cjwatson> then leave it be
[16:49] <unfo> cjwatson:  why don't you design for those people?  many of those people are plagued with spyware.
[16:49] <cjwatson> unfo: where did I say that Windows users had no ability to do anything?
[16:49] <unfo> They might benefit from Ubuntu.
[16:49] <cjwatson> unfo: I said that we can't design for people with no ability to do anything. That's quite a different statement
[16:49] <unfo> cjwatson: you didn't say that.  I put the words in your mouth maybe :)
[16:50] <cjwatson> unfo: I think you're making an unwarranted assumption about people's inability to see a bar with "Google" printed next to it and work out that it is related to Google
[16:50] <unfo> I am saying, many people have no ability to do anything.  Most of them now use Windows.  Why shouldn't we design Ubuntu so it meets those people's needs?
[16:50] <cjwatson> (oh, and with "Search" written on the other side)
[16:50] <cjwatson> but that simply isn't true. They had to pick up a certain amount in order to use Windows too
[16:50] <unfo> cjwatson: could we use a real Google logo, and enlarge that search bar area with lots of padding so it takes up 200 vertical pixels?
[16:50] <unfo> cjwatson: true
[16:51] <ogra> it is using a real google logo, isnt it ?
[16:51] <cjwatson> it looks like a real Google logo to me
[16:51] <unfo> ogra: oops, I was browsing with images off..
[16:51] <unfo> I had only set "allow images from start.ubuntu.com" under Exceptions.  my bad.
[16:52] <unfo> does anyone here have a true noob in their home or office?  could they test start.ubuntu.com/8.04/ on them?
[16:52] <cjwatson> I really don't think the current page is unreasonable. Yes, I know that developers are usually the worst people to make these kinds of decisions, but even so I think it is a fair trade-off between access to the ability to search and provision of information. Surely there are many worse problems?
[16:53] <unfo> cjwatson: I am not 100% sure but I suspect it is not the ideal trade-off.  But it depends who your audience is.
[16:53] <juliux> hi
[16:53] <unfo> Perhaps the right thing to say is "people as noobish as unfo's doctor, who don't want to learn anything about computers, should not use Ubuntu".
[16:53] <juliux> is there any way how i can test something in on a 64bit system without having a 64bit cpu?
[16:53] <broonie> unfo: How many of these people are going to be confused by anything that isn't exactly IE?
[16:53] <cjwatson> you can certainly make general-purpose computers easier, but you can't turn them into a toaster. A web browser requires more controls than that.
[16:54] <unfo> juliux: wrong channel.  join me in #ubuntu
[16:54] <unfo> broonie: a lot.
[16:54] <mvo> davmor2: cool. the delay is know and a "feature". it makes the session statup faster if  the update checks are run later
[16:55] <davmor2> mvo: np's
[16:55] <cjwatson> I really don't buy this. My mother was AFAICT an excellent example of this; she was generally uninterested in learning about computers, and exhibited some confusion when things changed around, but had no problem using Firefox. Yes, it was different, but she picked it up.
[16:55] <ogra> unfo, what will your doc do if XP is done and only vista is available ?
[16:56] <ogra> ir vistas successor
[16:56] <ogra> the world simply changes all the time ...
[16:56] <cjwatson> (in other words I've already done this test ...)
[16:56] <pitti> juliux: possible with qemu according to http://qemu-forum.ipi.fi/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4296
[16:56] <cjwatson> in fact this was before the start page offered Google as prominently as it now does
[16:57] <ogra> juliux, be aware thats really slowish
[16:57] <pitti> of course, full emulation
[16:57] <davmor2> cjwatson: ditto My wife had never used a pc I showed her quickly what to do how to bookmark and how to find them after and she's quite happy browsing to her hearts content
[16:58] <liw> on newbies switching to Linux: http://liw.iki.fi/liw/log/2006-Debian.html#20060728c and http://liw.iki.fi/liw/log/2007-Debian.html#20070124b
[17:00] <cjwatson> unfo: (for the avoidance of doubt I think there are plenty of things we should improve for new users; I just don't think this is one where we need to worry too much)
[17:00] <juliux> ogra: pitti thanks i will order a 64bit cpu at work;9
[17:01] <pitti> juliux: definitively the more performant solution :)
[17:01] <pitti> juliux: it might even ship by the time an emulated install finishes :)
[17:01] <juliux> pitti: yeah and the cheaper one;)
[17:01] <ogra> heh
[17:02] <cjwatson> gah, cdimage got stuck on a lock again
[17:03]  * lool gives the claws to cjwatson 
[17:05] <unfo> cjwatson:  phone.  back in 1 hour.
[17:33] <lool> tjaalton: Any idea on what's going on with http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18503157/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-hppa.pygtk_2.13.0-0ubuntu7_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[17:33] <lool> Xvfb failed to start is all I get
[17:35] <jcristau> meh. no error log?
[17:35] <lool> jcristau: Do you spot anything wrong with my -e usage?
[17:35] <jcristau> xvfb-run, i officially hate you.
[17:38] <lool> infinity: Sorry for the annoyance, but Xvfb is failing on some buildds and we get no output; do you think you could check what's going on?  e.g. http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18503157/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-hppa.pygtk_2.13.0-0ubuntu7_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[17:43] <cjwatson> TheMuso: the patch submitter of 122607 responded to your query; you might like to get back to him
[17:50] <james_w> ogra: yeah, wireless doesn't work on your image, as both ath5k and ath_pci are loaded I believe.
[17:56] <james_w> ogra: but your image boots automatically for me, whereas ones created with usb-creator require me to select the USB stick from the boot device list. Do you know why that is?
[17:57] <lool> james_w: Are you writing to /dev/sdz versus /dev/sdz1 in some cases?
[17:58] <ogra> james_w, our syslinux.cfg is just set to not prompt
[17:58] <ogra> or rather to timeout
[17:58] <james_w> lool: ah, that's probably it. I'm using ogra's image-writer for his images
[17:58] <ogra> ah
[17:58] <lool> ogra: I guess that "select USB stick from boot list" is BIOS
[17:58] <ogra> the imagewriter is just a graphical DD frontent
[17:58] <ogra> *frontend
[17:59] <ogra> it uses hal to find eth device as usb-creator does though
[18:09] <lool> mvo: Reproduced the -D_GNU_SOURCE issue you had with acpid with Debian experimental's libc6; thanks!
[18:09] <crevette> heya
[18:11] <pitti> tkamppeter: I'm currently considering making jockey only look for packaged PPD files, and not for drivers (at least not by default), as recently discussed; is there a printer model for which openprinting.org db returns a packaged PPD?
[18:15] <tkamppeter> pitti, not yet. In which time frame do you want to do this? I could create a test package tomorrow or so.
[18:17] <tkamppeter> The characteristic to recognize such a package is that it is for all architectures, which is found by searching for the architecture noarch or any (Packages without binaries in general).
[18:19] <ogra> oh, who uploaded screem ?
[18:19]  * ogra was just tinkering with that
[18:19] <tkamppeter> pitti, do you have a PostScript printer? Then please tell me which brand and model, then I can make a package which you can directly test.
[18:19] <ogra> since crimsun had asked me to
[18:21] <pitti> tkamppeter: no, I don't; well, I have a bunch of "fake" printers to nonexisting ports :)
[18:21] <pitti> tkamppeter: but I don't need to have the printer, querying for it and getting back a PPD package is enough
[18:22] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, noarch=1 seems to be close, but woulnd't onlyppdfiles=1&onlydriverpackages=1 be more correct?
[18:29] <crimsun> ogra: laserjock did.  I pinged him on identi.ca a couple days ago
[18:30] <ogra> ah, k
[18:30] <ogra> i was just confused :)
[18:33] <mvo> lool: cool, cheers
[18:40] <james_w> ogra: install went well, wireless works once ath_pci is blacklisted.
[18:41] <munckfish> hi calc are you there?
[18:56] <cjwatson> pitti: should bug 176994 be closed? I'm not sure what the packageless task is for.
[19:08] <mdz> does anyone know how to get the python gconf api to do the equivalent of "gconftool-2 -g"?
[19:11] <mdz> I think I want gconf_engine_get but can't find it in the python api
[19:12] <mvo> mdz: give me a sec
[19:12] <mvo> mdz: /usr/share/gnome-panel/migrate-fusa-config.py should be a good example
[19:13] <mdz>     client = gconf.client_get_default()
[19:13] <mdz> mvo: I tried that, but it only seems to work within a session
[19:13] <mvo> mdz: gconf.client_get_default() is the one
[19:14] <mdz> mvo: gconftool-2 seems to work even outside of an active session
[19:14] <mdz> maybe I should just call out to gconftool-2
[19:14] <mdz> glib.GError: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ for information. (Details -  1: Not running within active session)
[19:15] <mvo> mdz: oh, right. sorry, I missed that
[19:18] <mdz> there is a gconf.Engine but it has only one method on it, associate_schema
[19:19] <mvo> mdz: there is also gconf.client_get_for_engine() were the engine can be passed to. but I tried it and it just gives me the same error
[19:21] <mvo> mdz: heh :) /usr/sbin/update-gconf-defaults is written in python but for the actual gconf manipulation it calls out to gconftool
[19:22] <mdz> mvo: what I want to do is, for a list of keys, print those which are not at the default
[19:22] <mdz> running gconftool-2 for each one takes a long time
[19:22] <mdz> about 300ms each
[19:23] <mdz> it does work though
[19:26] <ogra> james_w, thanks a lot :)
[19:39] <cjwatson> mdz: I wrote a gconftool module for ubiquity to deal with this :-)
[19:39] <cjwatson> it also calls gconftool-2 for each key though
[19:40] <cjwatson> and far from a complete API wrapping
[19:49] <lool> mdz: import gconf; c=gconf.client_get_default(); c.get_without_default('<key name>')
[19:50] <lool> mdz: returns None if unset
[20:01] <mdz> lool: same problem
[20:01] <mdz> glib.GError: Failed to contact configuration server; some possible causes are that you need to enable TCP/IP networking for ORBit, or you have stale NFS locks due to a system crash. See http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/ for information. (Details -  1: Not running within active session)
[20:03] <mdz> lool: get_without_default() seems to return a lot of false positives, too.  what I want is only keys whose value is not the default value
[20:04] <mdz> gconf seems to have a different notion of what is 'default'
[20:04] <lool> Ah only read last part of your question, didn't see "out of the session" constraint
[20:04] <mdz> lool: I have already written the gconftool-2 version as a fallback, but want to use the fast path when there is a session
[20:22] <stefanlsd> how long after intrepid is released does dev for jaunty open?
[20:25] <ScottK> Usually a couple of weeks.
[20:29] <stefanlsd> heh. looking forward too that
[20:30] <cjwatson> I think we should be able to do the actual creation in a small number of days, but it can take a little while for the toolchain to settle enough to allow general uploads
[20:32] <sebner> cjwatson: remember the gcc fun at the intrepid beginning ^^
[20:32] <cjwatson> sebner: sure, it takes a while each time
[20:32] <cjwatson> believe me warty was a lot more fun ;-)
[20:33] <sebner> cjwatson: ah you were here since the very beginning? nice. 2004 /me not even own a computer
[20:34] <cjwatson> sebner: yes - warty involved completely rebuilding the archive from scratch because we realised it was broken on Via C3
[20:35] <cjwatson> that was before the archive was publicly mirrored so we could pull that sort of stunt :)
[20:35] <sebner> hehe
[20:42] <johanbr> cjwatson: I got usb-creator to detect the SD card, but it's still not quite working. Do you know if it's supposed to detect a block device or a partition?
[20:42] <johanbr> I don't have a standard USB key handy, so I can't test.
[20:43] <cjwatson> evand: ^- could you help johanbr?
[20:53] <evand> sure thing
[20:54] <evand> johanbr: where is it failing?
[20:56] <johanbr> evand: It says the card needs formatting, so I click on Format, the button is greyed out, and not much more happens.
[20:57] <nellery> bdmurray: the light does turn on when X is disabled
[20:57] <evand> johanbr: can you pastebin the output of hal-device
[21:02] <johanbr> evand: http://pastebin.ca/1226174
[21:05]  * evand digs through the code
[21:06] <johanbr> evand: Well, this is with some changes I made to make it detect the SD card.
[21:07] <evand> johanbr: can you put up a diff as well then?
[21:09] <murdok> Does anyone know how can I open the cursors in /usr/share/icons/DMZ-White/cursors ?
[21:09] <murdok> which is the format :?
[21:10] <ogra> its X cursor format :)
[21:10] <murdok> lol :þ
[21:10]  * ogra would try a cursor editor :)
[21:11] <murdok> where can I find one?
[21:11] <murdok> mmm I'm looking in x11-apps
[21:11] <mdke> slangasek: in previous releases we've tended to upload ubuntu-docs translations a bit after the NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline, more around the LanguagePackTranslationDeadline. Would it be ok if we do the same again this release? Translators have had very little time due to LP issues
[21:11] <murdok> no, x11-apps provides a cursors generator but not a viewer :?
[21:12] <mdke> slangasek: so I'd like to give them a few extra days if possible. It shouldn't create any problems
[21:12] <murdok> ogra: do you know any?
[21:12] <ogra> murdok, no,and this isnt actually a support channel
[21:13] <ogra> there is a lot documentation out theer how to generate cursors, best is to look that up i guess
[21:13] <murdok> well, i know. but my goal was develop
[21:13] <johanbr> evand: http://pastebin.ca/1226194
[21:13] <evand> thanks
[21:14] <johanbr> Just found something I got wrong, actually...
[21:15] <evand> oh?
[21:19] <johanbr> evand: I missed one check for storage.drive_type
[21:20] <evand> we should take this to pm rather than spam #ubuntu-devel...
[21:25] <ogra> infinity, is anyone looking after hppa nowadays ? feels like i get an FTBFS mail for every second upload
[21:30] <jibel> slangasek: Hi, bdmurray told me you're familiar with grub. Could you take a look a bug 269539 ? This is an issue with the 3 way merge in update-grub.
[21:31] <hwilde> anybody here know about rsync --partial ?
[21:31] <hwilde> it seems to just create a new temporary file instead of resuming
[23:20] <TheMuso> Yay! The launchpad mail processing interface is actually working today...
[23:39] <directhex> and it's official, latest bugfix-frenxy mono version landed on ftpmaster. now for an ubuntu1 merge diff