[08:32] <Lunks> I'm kinda lost with Edubuntu. Is it on a server/client architecture? Which CDs do I need in order to use it?
[09:43] <nubae> Lunks: how would you like to use it, are you a school?
[14:59] <Lunks> And also, can I use Edubuntu over wireless?
[15:53] <sbalneav> Morning all
[15:54] <stgraber> moin sbalneav
[15:54] <sbalneav> Lunks: Are you talking using an edubuntu workstation with a wireless card in it, or using wireless thin clients?
[15:54] <sbalneav> Morning stgraber
[15:54] <sbalneav> So that patch worked for you?
[15:54] <Lunks> sbalneav: wireless thin clients
[15:54] <Lunks> I'm planning on deploying Edubuntu on a computer lab on my University
[15:55] <Lunks> One of the main issues is: the new lab won't have wired ethernet, just wireless.
[15:58] <sbalneav> Lunks: Well, wireless isn't a very good technology to try to deploy thin clients on.  Most wireless cards can't network boot.  Some people get around this by using a regular network card connected to a wireless bridge, but since thin clients require a fairly large amount of bandwidth, you'll really (practically) only be able to have 2 or 3 going
[15:59] <Lunks> Even if I've have the server wired to the AP?
[16:00] <Lunks> This should solve the issue on bandwidth, I believe. I can't find out how, by looking at the docs, on how to accomplish this using wi-fi. =<
[16:01] <nubae> Lunks: it wont
[16:01] <sbalneav> Wireless isn't like connecting to a switch.  There's no congestion mitigation like in a switch.  Wireless is like a hub: large numbers of workstations producing large amounts of data will result in a huge number of collisions.
[16:01] <nubae> you can run maybe 10 stations max
[16:02] <sbalneav> I'd say less than that, but yeah, either way, you're not going to get 20 or 30 workstations going wireless.
[16:02] <nubae> you might be able to use APs for every computer though
[16:02] <Lunks> That's not so good heh
[16:02] <nubae> pxe to wireless AP bridged to server
[16:02] <nubae> expensive and silly though
[16:03] <sbalneav> But by the time you spend all the money to do that, you might as well have just pulled a cat5 line to the workstation.
[16:03] <Lunks> Yeah, I'd rather hang on some cables around the room
[16:03] <Lunks> Any other way to use a similar approach to thin clients using Wireless?
[16:03] <nubae> yeah :-) and gigabit isnt coming to wireless any time soon
[16:04] <nubae> well, u could run NX or VNC
[16:04] <Lunks> One of our main goals is to use wireless to provide a similar experience, at least, to thin clients (centralized management, etc.)
[16:04] <sbalneav> Installing a stripped down ubuntu to a livecd or usb key would probably be better.
[16:06] <nubae> or u could use fat client
[16:06] <nubae> if your terminals permit it
[16:07] <nubae> something like xubuntu maybe
[16:07] <nubae> sbalneav: can u resend the #ltsp archives... my mail server was acting up and rejecting mails... its ok now though...
[16:13] <sbalneav> ok
[16:13] <sbalneav> email again? (didn't save it :()
[16:18] <Lunks> nubae: I've got the hardware, but fat clients will be ok with wireless bandwidth?
[16:19] <nubae> sure
[16:20] <nubae> everything is run on the clients
[16:20] <nubae> take a look here: http://nubae.com/ltsp-linux-terminal-server-project-netbooted-fat-client-for-ubuntu-hardy-and-intrepid
[16:24] <Lunks> Thanks
[16:24] <Lunks> I will.
[16:24] <nubae> what hardware have u got Lunks?
[16:24] <Lunks> Basically, I'll use this with an Edubuntu (LTSP) Server, right?
[16:25] <Lunks> nubae: ~100 PCs with Athlons, P4s
[16:25] <Lunks> They're pretty decent
[16:25] <nubae> then definetly use fat client
[16:26] <nubae> its a waste to use those as thin terminals
[16:26] <nubae> fat client = all the benefits of centralised user and program management, with little strain on server and bandwidth
[16:26] <Lunks> One of our goals would be to wipe the hard-drives and use them (or try to use as many as) on a RAID on our server (which I don't have the specs right now), and I can guess by the name 'fat' that it doesn't eliminate the need of a hard drive, right?
[16:26] <Lunks> But oh what the hell. :P
[16:27] <nubae> wrong... no hard drive
[16:27] <nubae> images are sent from the server to each client
[16:28] <Lunks> nubae: Great, I believe I'll be deploying fat clients on my free time =)
[16:28] <Lunks> Thank you very much, nubae
[16:28] <Lunks> I notice it's your blog. ;)
[16:29] <nubae> the hard drive is activated by default though, so u can use it for storage or whatever
[16:29] <nubae> heh, yeah
[16:29] <Lunks> I'll try to sort the wireless stuff using fat clients, then
[16:29] <nubae> with the clients u've got should be fine.. how much ram?
[16:31] <Lunks> Definetly more than 512mb, they're running Ubuntu right now
[16:32] <Lunks> I just dropped on my University
[16:33] <Lunks> Right now, everyone who wants to access a computer just have to login with a: student student kinda login
[16:33] <Lunks> So it's not very centralized nor easy to manage
[16:34] <Lunks> One of the main goals of the IT guy is to deploy thin clients, even though he doesn't seem to know much about it, so the new student gets to do all the fun, probably
[16:34] <nubae> then you are in for a surprise... LTSP is a centralisation miracle
[16:36] <Lunks> The only setback is this wireless thing which I'll have to sort out someday, somehow
[16:36] <nubae> its no problem with fat clients
[16:37] <Lunks> Probably having a small kernel booting with wpasupplicant and stuff on an USB stick or CD-ROM
[16:37] <nubae> wired is better of course
[16:37] <nubae> right
[16:37]  * nubae wonders if there is something like an AP with multiple ethernet slots that could bridge to server
[16:38] <Lunks> Just 4, nubae
[16:38] <Lunks> It'll not handle it, unfortunately
[16:38] <nubae> yah... hmm... u'd need 25 APs then for 100 computers
[16:39] <nubae> starts getting expensive I guess
[16:39] <nubae> in a smaller lab u could do it
[16:39] <Lunks> haha yeah, not really the best way
[16:39] <Lunks> It's not the best using Wi-Fi, either... I know.
[16:40] <nubae> well only way will be booting off cd, usb, or harddrive with connection to server (the no pxe on wireless is annoying)
[16:42] <Lunks> nubae: This should be doable, just booting a small kernel first, right? I never did an network boot, so it's a good learning curve to me here, sorry if I sound stupid sometimes. ;)
[16:47] <nubae> Lunks: something like that yeah.... there might be some stuff on the net about it, and diskless-workstation.com sells a usb key that does that
[16:53] <Lunks> I'll google this. Making a kernel boot with a few commands and binaries beside it maybe a great learning experience as well. :D
[16:54] <nubae> sure... do a write up somewhere
[16:55] <Lunks> I will, for sure. Thanks for all the help, nubae. :)