[00:00] <wgrant> james_w: I sometimes wonder how people survive without multi-finger tapping...
[00:01] <Awsoonn> wgrant, do I need special hardware or will any touchpad work?
[00:01] <wgrant> Awsoonn: If your touchpad does scrolly things, it's the right kind
[00:02] <Awsoonn> it does inded, how do i enabe multitouch scrolling and tapping and such?
[00:02] <wgrant> Awsoonn: Multi-finger tapping needs to enabling; we have it on by default.
[00:02] <wgrant> But it's very hard to do now.
[00:02] <wgrant> Which is what I'm trying to fix.
[00:02] <wgrant> It worked in Hardy.
[00:02] <pedro_> are you using a macbook?
[00:02] <wgrant> Anybody who feels like testing, even if they don't normally use those features: https://edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/+archive
[00:02] <Awsoonn> if you ned testers, this is a fresh install I'm on right now
[00:02] <wgrant> pedro_: Me?
[00:02] <pedro_> wgrant: yes
[00:03] <wgrant> Grab the newer xfree86-driver-synaptics from there.
[00:03] <wgrant> pedro_: No.
[00:03] <pedro_> all this multi taping thing reminds me of a macbook
[00:03] <wgrant> pedro_: Why?
[00:03] <pedro_> you know where you don't have a second button for the menu and things like that
[00:03] <wgrant> Macbooks have two-finger scrolling on my default.
[00:03] <wgrant> Ah.
[00:03] <wgrant> I rarely use buttons.
[00:06] <Awsoonn> wgrant, will I need to restart X?
[00:07] <wgrant> Awsoonn: You will.
[00:07] <Awsoonn> or enable it in a config file or anythign after i install your package?
[00:07] <Awsoonn> alrighty then. see you in a flash
[00:07] <wgrant> No config required.
[00:10] <Awsoonn> cool!
[00:11] <wgrant> It works? What have you tried?
[00:11] <Awsoonn> 2 finger tap works prety well
[00:11] <Awsoonn> 3 finger worked once
[00:11] <Awsoonn> it usually just makes my mouse go crazy on teh screeen
[00:11] <wgrant> 3 is hard to get right. You have to ensure the fingers hit around the same time with around the same pressure.
[00:13] <Awsoonn> ok, I got it to work once more
[00:14] <wgrant> It takes a bit of getting used to. But two-finger works reliably?
[00:14] <Awsoonn> yea,
[00:14] <wgrant> Excellent. Thanks.
[00:14] <Awsoonn> scrolling, hasn't worked yet for me here
[00:15] <wgrant> Two-finger scrolling? Is it enabled?
[00:15] <Awsoonn> I don't know
[00:15] <Awsoonn> I dt enable anythign, so I guess not?
[00:15] <Awsoonn> lag is killing my typing here, sorry
[00:15] <Awsoonn> how do I enable the scrolling function?
[00:16] <wgrant> xinput set-int-prop "Your Touchpad's Device Name Here" "Synaptics Two-Finger Scrolling" 8 1 0
[00:17] <wgrant> You can then scroll vertically just by dragging two fingers up or down anywhere on the touchpad.
[00:17] <Awsoonn> how can I find my touchpad's name?
[00:17] <wgrant> xinput list
[00:18] <Awsoonn> does it require a x-restart?
[00:18] <wgrant> No.
[00:19] <wgrant> xinput list-props "Your Touchpad Here"
[00:19] <wgrant> That will show the current settings.
[00:19] <wgrant> You're looking for a "1 0" for Synaptics Two-Finger Scrolling.
[00:20] <wgrant> Just above the middle of that listing.
[00:20] <hggdh> wgrant, this is on your synaptics version, correct?
[00:20] <wgrant> hggdh: Yes.
[00:20] <Awsoonn> ok, I se it in there
[00:20] <hggdh> without restart, I still get the fetch failure on xinput list
[00:20] <Awsoonn> oh that is jsut too cool
[00:20] <wgrant> hggdh: Yep... it's an amd64-specific bug that we're trying to work out.
[00:20] <Awsoonn> I had my fingers too close I guess
[00:21] <Awsoonn> I can boot this int 64-bit too if you need.
[00:21] <wgrant> Awsoonn: We can reproduce it, so that won't be necessary.
[00:21] <wgrant> But thanks for testing!
[00:22] <Awsoonn> hey thanks for doing the hard work!
[00:22] <Awsoonn> maybe you'll be the person I wanted to talk to :)
[00:23] <Awsoonn> rnoicly enough... I cant in here with a problem, on INtrepid, the volume buttons on my laptop cause the vlue to quickly go all teh way to max, and all teh way to low with one press. then the keyboard stops responding
[00:23] <wgrant> .... volume?
[00:23] <wgrant> Do you mean brightness?
[00:23] <wgrant> I've not seen that with volume before.
[00:23] <wgrant> Damn.
[00:23] <Awsoonn> if I were on a micro, I'd say that the interupt wasing being cleared after servicing, but I dont knwo how it works on a computer
[00:24] <wgrant> What kind of laptop is it?
[00:24] <Awsoonn> HP
[00:24] <wgrant> And can you recover by switching to a VT and back?
[00:24] <Awsoonn> I'll try :)
[00:24] <wgrant> And if you run xev and hit a volume key, do you see lots and lots of events?
[00:24] <wgrant> And if you turn off key repeat in System->Preferences->Keyboard, does it fix it?
[00:29] <Awsoonn> not quite
[00:29] <Awsoonn> I have a slightly differant t set of snptoms
[00:29] <Awsoonn> switchign to a VT and back fixes it
[00:30] <Awsoonn> but, turnign off repeat doen'st fix it
[00:31] <wgrant> Hmm.
[00:31] <wgrant> What does xev say?
[00:31] <Awsoonn> it makes it better maybe though, I don tget any mesages in xev, and the volume only goes up one click, but after that one click, the keyboard stops working and it can't go any farther up
[00:31] <wgrant> OK.
[00:32] <wgrant> Hmm
[00:32] <Awsoonn> interestingly enough, i can't evn put my curso in the terminal after it borks
[00:32] <Awsoonn> i'll paste bin you some xev
[00:33] <Awsoonn> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/57192/
[00:35] <Awsoonn> if that means anything to you :) Ibegan to log the xev, presses volume up got one click, couldn't go any farther, then volume down, couldnt go any farther, did a few ups and downs after that for good measure, switched to a VT and back and paste bin'd it
[00:35] <Awsoonn> so you have the story to go with the log.
[00:36] <wgrant> I've so far been unable to catch the kernel guy I need...
[00:36] <Awsoonn> I don't even know where to start looking for that kind of code, otherwise I'd have looked myself
[00:37] <wgrant> Exactly.
[00:37] <Awsoonn> well, e-mail me or msg me if you need more help with it or anything
[00:39] <wgrant> Will do.
[00:39] <wgrant> Thanks.
[00:39] <Awsoonn> accually, do you think you could give me a pointer to where that code might lie?
[00:40] <wgrant> I have no clue.
[00:40] <Awsoonn> you think it's in teh kernel? I was thinkign the same thing, but what module would tha tbe part of?
[00:40] <wgrant> A couple of us think it's in the kernel, yes.
[00:41]  * wgrant knows the kernel not.
[00:41] <Awsoonn> and let em guess, a couple of the kernel guys think it's in X
[00:41] <wgrant> We haven't managed to talk to them yet.
[00:41] <Awsoonn> right on, who is the guy you were hopign to track down?
[00:41] <wgrant> rtg
[00:41] <Awsoonn> awesome, a new name to me. :)
[00:42] <crimsun> wgrant: probably on more readily tomorrow US time, as today is a federal holiday
[00:43] <Awsoonn> rtg is Canadian?
[00:43] <ogra> heh, no
[00:43] <ogra> american
[00:43] <wgrant> crimsun: Aha.
[00:43]  * Awsoonn wonders how many people know it's Canadian thanks giving day
[00:44]  * ogra does 
[00:44]  * Awsoonn wonders is ogra is getting turkey tonight
[00:44] <ogra> nah, i had pork, we dont celebrate thanksgiving in germany :)
[00:45] <paulproteus> PMT, Any luck with that btw?
[00:45] <Awsoonn> I recomend you start ThanksGiving in Germany... turkey s delicious afterall.
[00:46] <PMT> paulproteus - trying.
[00:46] <ogra> well, i can have turkey without a reason ;)
[00:46] <PMT> it'll take awhile for me to figure out how to burn battery to trigger this
[00:49] <greg-g> PMT: glxdemo :)
[00:51] <PMT> working on it
[00:51] <PMT> i'm using cpuburn and glxdemo
[00:53] <PMT> gotta travel to b-more
[00:53] <PMT> will call back ca 11 PM sorry :(
[00:54] <james_w> PMT: please drop a note in the bug once you have tested, whether it works or not
[01:34] <james_w> wgrant: do you know what bug 282963 is a duplicate of?
[02:00] <wgrant> james_w: It's a dupe of part of one of my bugs, but that turned out to in fact be two completely different bugs with similar symptoms. I'm not sure it's really a dupe of any.
[02:01] <wgrant> james_w: Oh, I did file bug #261721. That's it.
[02:01] <james_w> it sounded like the one you were describing
[02:01] <wgrant> It is, yes.
[02:01] <wgrant> I'll comment with the current knowledge on my bug, and dupe the other one.
[02:02] <james_w> ah, or is it two bugs and he also has them both?
[02:02] <wgrant> Ehem.
[02:02] <james_w> thanks though
[02:02] <wgrant> It's actually the same laptop.
[02:02] <wgrant> Interesting.
[04:25] <Awsoonn> any reson why tring to install fglrx would want to remove ubuntu desktop as well as xorg?
[04:25] <Awsoonn> 8.10 here btw
[04:26] <Awsoonn> jockey doesn't give me an option to install it interestingly enough as wel
[04:26] <Hobbsee> because fglrx isn't compatible with the new X yet, iirc.
[04:27] <Awsoonn> :D awesome.
[04:27] <Awsoonn> so the solution is to wait then I suppose huh?
[04:27] <Hobbsee> yeah
[04:27] <Hobbsee> and hope that ati upgrades.
[04:28] <Awsoonn> the open source drivers are pretty amazing imho, I've gone a full 2 days and didn't even realize I was using them :)
[04:29] <Awsoonn> in any case, thank you Hobbsee
[04:29] <Hobbsee> Awsoonn: you're welcome
[06:11] <dholbach> good morning
[06:27] <Taim> So I am running up against a possible bug where my system hangs just after logging in.  I want to say it is either 1.  Network-Manager related, 2.  ATI xorg related or 3.  Something completely other.  The problem is that the system hangs so bad, sysreq magic and other fun things don't work.
[06:27] <Taim> I look at the usual suspect logs, but I don't see anything that really stands out to me.
[06:28] <Taim> I am also starting to wonder if it isn't a hardware issue as it only happens on a cold boot after being down for more than say 1 hour.
[06:28] <Taim> After that, a power cycle clears it up even if it's a hard reboot.
[06:52] <Taim> So, uhmn....I don't want specific help.  Was hoping to get some idea of exactly how to traige where this should go.
[06:56] <PMT> moop.
[06:56] <PMT> Taim - what wireless card are you using?
[06:56] <Taim> Atheros AR5001X+ (rev 01)
[06:56] <PMT> A-ha.
[06:57] <PMT> you're connecting to a WPA network, aren't you.
[06:57] <Taim> Sure am.
[06:57] <PMT> High-five. Welcome to ath5k land.
[06:57] <Taim> mnn..
[06:57] <Taim> Should have guessed.
[06:58] <PMT> :)
[06:58] <PMT> This is hardly conclusive.
[06:58] <PMT> I'm just another user with the ath5k card and bugs with it doing the same thing.
[06:58] <Taim> True true.
[07:03] <Taim> So, although it is yet something else to travel down, I am seeing only 1 bug on Atheros for anything 8.10.
[07:03] <Taim> It also doesn't mean that this is truly my problem.
[07:03] <PMT> hold please
[07:04] <Taim> <hold music> in my head.
[07:05] <Taim> Rick Astly even in my head...that's bad.
[07:06] <PMT> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/261142
[07:07] <PMT> bug 269253
[07:07] <PMT> bug 276508
[07:07] <PMT> also bug 272185 (it's mislabeled as being intel-specific)
[07:09] <Taim> How are you searching on this?  I tried an advanced search with "Atheros" and "ath5k" as seperate queries.  To help me narrow down, I selected any of the intrepid and 8.10 milestones in the advanced search.
[07:09]  * PMT shrugs.
[07:09] <PMT> I happen to have found these bugs by being subscribed to them. :)
[07:10] <Taim> All I got was bug 263543
[07:11] <PMT> searching with ath5k on ubuntu bugs works for me...
[07:11] <PMT> as a simple search
[07:11] <PMT> http://xrl.us/otsmf
[07:12] <Taim> Interesting.
[07:12] <Taim> I was expecting more noise from previous versions.
[07:12] <PMT> ath5k was just enabled in intrepid. :)
[07:13] <PMT> rather - it was just shipped in the kernel in a kernel version between hardy and intrepid.
[07:13] <Taim> haha, so true...
[07:13] <PMT> so we get to be test dummies. :)
[07:13] <Taim> Never thought about that.
[07:14] <PMT> I happened to be following the driver's development, so that's why I knew that to start.
[07:15] <Taim> Ah.  It's only a passing interest as it's only a backup machine for me.
[07:16] <Taim> I usually try to keep my wireless to Intel cards.
[07:17] <PMT> bdmurray - was this a not-subtle hint to go to #ubuntu?
[07:18] <bdmurray> PMT: nope, its nearly the 14th in my tz
[07:18] <PMT> oh, I didn't get a diff against the topic in my client, so I was guessing. :)
[07:20] <PMT> Taim - ah, it's my new laptop, so I have a slightly more active interest.
[07:22] <PMT> ooh, james_w, testing now
[07:22] <Taim> PMT: I understand.
[07:23] <PMT> james_w - tragically, the version with your patch still crashes.
[09:42] <Tumie> hi guys, i'm using an EEEPC with EEEbuntu,, but if a window is too big for my screen (800*480), and i click on something, it goes to the other (not viseble) side of the window,, i just can't click something..
[09:44] <leoquant> Tumie try #ubuntu
[09:44] <Tumie> (this happens with xchat: server -> edit & amsn -> webcamsettings
[09:44] <Tumie> ok,
[09:45] <persia> Tumie, Or try ubuntu-mobile (assuming you're willing to test intrepid)
[12:41] <seb128> dholbach: so what are those harvest review buttons supposed to do?
[12:46] <persia> seb128, It just puts it in the "reviewed" category, in the hopes that other people don't have to review the same thing.
[12:46] <seb128> persia: so there is no way to hide items?
[12:47] <persia> seb128, Not really.  Mark Reviewed is the closest to hiding.  Used to be that you couldn't even do that.
[12:48]  * ogra hands seb128 a black edding marker
[12:48] <persia> ogra, The problem with using those on harvest is that it makes it hard to read the other applications.
[12:49] <persia> seb128, I think Mark Reviewed takes it off the primary list.  If it doesn't, you could file a bug.
[12:49] <ogra> t works as long as you dont scroll
[12:49] <persia> ogra, It breaks when I open a new application.
[12:49] <ogra> so dont open it :P
[12:49] <ogra> your screen is trashed by then anyway, who would want to open other apps
[12:50] <persia> heh
[12:51] <seb128> I was looking at harvest, it's useful but really noisy
[12:51] <seb128> lot of incorrect changes, closed bugs, duplicates, etc listed
[12:52] <ogra> you could use little black tape stries though, thats less harmfull
[12:52] <ogra> *stripes
[12:53] <seb128> hum, harvests seems to list all the fedora patches that are stored on their cvs
[12:53] <seb128> which means lot of patches which are deprecated and not used, they tend to clean the spec but let those there too
[12:54] <persia> seb128, For the incorrect/dupes/etc. complain to bdmurray, who produces the LP input scripts.  For fedora, complain to dholbach, but I suspect the suggestion will be to mark all the reviewed patches reviewed, and then we only see the new ones (which could be useful).
[12:54] <persia> Yeah, fixing the fedora importer to parse the spec file is probably a good idea.
[12:56] <seb128> bug #248103
[12:56] <seb128> apparently the mark reviewed button not working is a known issue
[12:58] <seb128> the service used to list the nbs has outdated informations
[12:59]  * ogra thinks probably mark doesnt simply have the time ...
[12:59] <persia> Frustrating.  Mark Reviewed used to work.
[12:59]  * ogra stops making silly jokes now 
[13:26] <dholbach> persia: what seb128 said
[13:26] <dholbach> it's a harvest bug
[13:26] <dholbach> no idea, why it's failing
[13:26] <dholbach> I'll investigate
[13:26] <seb128> dholbach: thanks
[13:26] <seb128> dholbach: the fedora cvs listing old patches combined to the button non working makes it difficult to have clean lists
[13:27] <dholbach> seb128: I know
[13:28] <seb128> dholbach: I guess that the "list bugs has being closed upstream when other upstream tasks are closed but not the corresponding one" is a launchpad bug, right? you use the filter to list bugs which are closed upstream there?
[13:28] <dholbach> seb128: it's a LP bug and it's filed already
[13:28] <dholbach> seb128: which filter?
[13:29] <dholbach> seb128: that's a list that bdmurray generates - I'm not sure how much filtering and intelligence is added
[13:29] <dholbach> the tasks mismatch is really annoying :/
[13:30] <seb128> dholbach: the show bugs which are resolved upstream launchpad search option
[13:30] <seb128> dholbach: anyway as you said that's a launchpad bug
[13:31] <seb128> dholbach: I guess the only bug on your side there is the review button not always working (and maybe the fedora list that should be filtered using the spec too)
[13:31] <dholbach> yeah, and I'm sorry not taking a look at it earlier
[13:32] <dholbach> I'm a bit busy with all kinds of things right now
[13:32] <dholbach> need to head off for the berlin bug jam in a bit too
[13:34] <seb128> dholbach: everybody is busy no blame, I was just looking at cleaning the harvest desktop list to maybe start promoting it for contributors
[13:34]  * dholbach hugs seb128
[13:40]  * seb128 hugs dh
[13:41] <james_w> debhelper?
[13:42] <seb128> james_w: no, dh<tab> to match dholbach who just left the channel ;-)
[13:42]  * james_w hugs yada
[13:43]  * Hobbsee boots james_w into the middle of next milenium
[13:43] <seb128> hey Hobbsee
[13:43] <Hobbsee> hey seb128!
[13:43] <Hobbsee> james_w: should we trust any of your uploads, if you like yada?  :)
[13:44] <james_w> it's not the yada you should worry about
[13:44] <Hobbsee> it's the checkinstall?
[13:45]  * james_w has a set of homebrewed erlang scripts to do packaging
[13:45] <james_w> debian/control, what's that?
[13:54] <persia> james_w, In case you weren't around, at one point discussion of yada was a kick-worthy offense.  Not sure if that's still being enforced.
[13:54] <james_w> heh :-)
[13:54] <Hobbsee> persia: it should be.   But i've already been dealing with nutcases today, and am getting lazy.
[13:55] <persia> Hobbsee, It used to be, although I've not seen anyone kicked for it since Dapper.
[13:55] <Hobbsee> persia: well, people got told off for kicking other people.  Or acting, really, at all.  So people try not to act as much as possible.
[13:55] <Hobbsee> at least in userland and such
[13:56] <persia> Interesting.  Not sure that's best, but at least good to know.
[13:56] <Hobbsee> persia: yeah, i think many people hold your opinion, but, what can you do?
[15:35] <joumetal> does bug 99505 have enough information to be confirmed?
[16:04] <savvas_> has anyone noticed a bug report about intrepid, when ejecting a cd/dvd rom, it inserts it back in?
[16:06] <persia> savvas_, Yes.  I don't remember the number offhand, and it doesn't happen for me (my hardware isn't like that), but it's worth searching for it.
[16:07] <savvas_> I tried to search but couldn't find it :\ the package responsible seems to be "eject" package right?
[16:10] <leoquant> savvas: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/264011
[16:13] <leoquant> ejecting cd rom/dvd rom problems seems to be related to mac´s (in intrepid)
[16:14] <savvas_> not a mac, sorry :)
[16:16] <savvas_> This is my dvd drive:       product: DVD-RW  DVR-212       vendor: PIONEER
[16:17] <savvas_> seems to be my case, thanks leoquant:)
[16:18] <leoquant> nop
[16:18] <savvas_> hm.. so I should file a different bug report?
[16:19] <leoquant> i think so
[16:21] <savvas_> ah wait you're right
[16:21] <savvas_> my cd/dvds can be eject, but they are inserted right back in
[16:21] <savvas_> *ejected
[16:22] <persia> I'm sure I saw someone discussing that a couple days ago, but if you can't find the bug, and file a new one, perhaps someone will mark it duplicate, or discover it is truly different.
[16:25] <savvas_> which package should I use? eject or hal?
[16:26] <savvas_> or some other?
[16:26] <bdmurray> Trying it in a tty w/o being logged into X might help determine that
[16:27] <savvas_> bdmurray: should I stop gdm and try from a tty?
[16:27] <bdmurray> savvas_: logging out of X should be enough
[16:28] <savvas_> ah cool, let me save my work and I'll give it a shot
[16:28] <savvas_> be right back
[16:34] <savvas0> well um.. I used the eject command in a tty and it still ejects and re-inserts the dvdrom
[16:35] <savvas0> I'll try with the eject button on the device again
[16:38] <bddebian> Boo
[17:01] <savvas0> sorry for the delay, the dvdrom isejected and  inserted right back in, even while in tty
[17:03] <bdmurray> savvas0: and that is when you press the button?
[17:03] <savvas0> yes bdmurray
[17:05] <savvas0> I've shut down the machine, booted and used tty1
[17:06] <savvas0> another weird thing was that while in tty, I used ls -l /media/cdrom0 and the contents of the dvd media were "total 0"
[17:06] <bdmurray> seb128: could you look at 279158?
[17:09] <seb128> bug #279158
[17:10] <seb128> bdmurray: what about it?
[17:11] <bdmurray> seb128: is gnome-spell really redundant and should those packages be updated?
[17:11] <persia> There's quite a few redundant dependencies in the seeds currently.  This late in the cycle doesn't seem the best time to try to hunt them down and fix them.
[17:11] <seb128> bdmurray: evolution doesn't use it nowadays, I'll update it in the next upload, not sure about either something else is using gnome-spell though
[17:12] <seb128> s/either/whether
[17:23] <savvas0> um.. another problem I have is that when I switch tabs in a program, like firefox, it doesn't show all the contents of the current tab
[17:24] <savvas0> I hope this weird behaviour is reported, because I really don't know how to phrase it or which package is in question, since I've noticed this on other programs as well
[18:34] <Treenaks> Is there any more I can do for bug 281825?
[18:44] <chrisccoulson> Treenaks - you could subscribe 'ubuntu-main-sponsors', as you have attached a patch for the problem
[18:45] <LaserJock> bdrung: around?
[18:46] <Treenaks> chrisccoulson: ok
[18:59] <bdrung> LaserJock: yes
[19:01] <LaserJock> bdrung: sweet
[19:01] <LaserJock> bdrung: looking at bug #278764
[19:02] <LaserJock> just added a comment
[19:02] <bdrung> we should switch the default backend to TkAgg or GtkAgg
[19:02] <LaserJock> bdrung: we need to set TkAgg as the default backend
[19:02] <bdrung> currently matplotlib pulls both in (tk and gtk)
[19:02] <LaserJock> bdrung: I had an idea though, that we should maybe create python-matplotlib-gtk and python-matplotlib-qt metapackages
[19:03] <bdrung> LaserJock: good idea.
[19:03] <LaserJock> even if somebody has python-qt{3,4} installed there are deps on other gnomeish packages like python-glade2
[19:04] <bdrung> maybe add python-matplotlib-tk too
[19:04] <LaserJock> it's not just python-gtk2 vs python-qt4
[19:04] <LaserJock> well, I was thinking we'd keep tk and wx in a base python-matplotlib
[19:05] <LaserJock> so those are the base and then if you want the more DE-specific backends you can add those on
[19:05] <LaserJock> hmm, though wx is wxgtk
[19:05] <bdrung> LaserJock: currenlty${shlibs:Depends} pulls gtk libs
[19:05] <bdrung> wx should be part of mpl-gtk
[19:05] <LaserJock> right
[19:06] <LaserJock> hmm, it's slightly complicated
[19:06] <LaserJock> in terms of upgradability
[19:07] <LaserJock> we'd probably want python-matplotlib to depend on mpl-gtk and mpl-qt and like mpl-base (that has tk and the rest of the deps)
[19:08] <LaserJock> or maybe it wouldn't need to dep on mpl-qt as that's never been default
[19:08] <bdrung> qt was never default
[19:09] <LaserJock> but we shouldn't take away backends that people have already had :-)
[19:09] <bdrung> but mpl-gtk would conflict with mpl-qt
[19:09] <LaserJock> would it conflict?
[19:10] <bdrung> or how do you would handle /etc/matplotlibrc?
[19:10] <LaserJock> well, I was thinking that mpl-base would always be installed and would have the default (TkAgg)
[19:11] <LaserJock> and then you'd want to put in a note somewhere that if you want GTK or Qt backends you need to install the packages
[19:11] <bdrung> mpl-gtk should have GtkAgg as default
[19:11] <LaserJock> but you're right, the -gtk and -qt packages should set those as the default
[19:12] <LaserJock> bah, mpl has *too* much choice :-)
[19:12] <bdrung> yes :)
[19:12] <persia> You could use alternatives for the front-ends.
[19:13] <LaserJock> hmmmmm
[19:13] <persia> And have the configuration point at the base alternative.
[19:13] <LaserJock> that's a good idea
[19:13] <LaserJock> so we'd just have 3 different maplotlibrc files in /etc
[19:13] <LaserJock> -base, -gtk, -qt
[19:13] <bdrung> should -qt use QtAgg or Qt4Agg as default?
[19:14] <persia> When doing this, create the virtual mpl-frontend package, and have each frontend Provide: it, so you can add/remove later at leisure.
[19:14] <persia> Qt4Agg for intrepid.
[19:14] <LaserJock> yeah
[19:14] <LaserJock> we can do python-qt4 | python-qt3 I think and default to Qt4
[19:14] <bdrung> we should contact the debian maintainer
[19:15] <LaserJock> ok, that's Jaunty stuff though
[19:15] <LaserJock> for Intrepid should we revert to TkAgg or GtkAgg?
[19:16] <LaserJock> I thought GtkAgg has some issues
[19:16] <bdrung> mom
[19:17] <LaserJock> I was thinking move moving python-tk into the | line so we'd have: python-tk | python-gtk2 | python-wxgtk2.8 | python-qt3 | python-qt4
[19:18] <persia> Wait, is all of this in *one* binary package?
[19:19] <LaserJock> yes
[19:19] <LaserJock> that's the current situation
[19:19] <LaserJock> and people are sometimes a bit upset that they have to download like 100MB just to install this plotting library
[19:19] <persia> I'd be very tempted to split the frontends into separate binary packages, just so each would have the correct dependencies.
[19:20] <persia> Oh, yes, especially for a 100MB package.  That calls for splitting :)
[19:20] <LaserJock> the package isn't 100MB, it's really small
[19:20] <LaserJock> it's the deps that kill us
[19:21] <bdrung> have a look at bug #220137. if the current version fixes this we should use GtkAgg
[19:24] <LaserJock> bdrung: it works with TkAgg here but not GTKAgg
[19:25] <LaserJock> I *thought* we were defaulting to TkAgg not Agg
[19:25] <bdrung> with mpl 0.98.3?
[19:25] <LaserJock> that's my bad for not checking that more thoroughly
[19:25] <LaserJock> 0.98.3-3ubuntu2
[19:25] <bdrung> gtkAgg was default a long time (if i read the changelog correct)
[19:25] <bdrung> ok, then use TkAgg
[19:26] <LaserJock> it was yes, to give a default GUI backend
[19:26] <LaserJock> I thought Debian was using TkAgg by default (I swear that's what the Debian maintainer said)
[19:26] <LaserJock> but it's actually Agg, which is not GUI
[19:26] <LaserJock> since I already change the backend I didn't notice it
[19:27] <LaserJock> so I'll move python-tk to the front of the backend |
[19:27] <LaserJock> and people will have to just deal with installing some gnome libs for Intrepid
[19:27] <LaserJock> I think it's too late to split everything up and get alternatives set up, etc.
[19:28] <LaserJock> and we need to talk to Debian about that
[19:28] <bdrung> please grab the debian changes 0.98.3-4
[19:28] <LaserJock> yeah
[19:29] <LaserJock> I should have most of them in, but not all
[19:29] <LaserJock> I grabbed a bunch of the changes in -4 from SVN when I uploaded our -3ubuntu1
[19:29] <bdrung> if you have the package ready i would like to have a look at it
[19:35] <bdrung> LaserJock: last comment in bug #278764: upstream should add an "auto" backend, which scans which backend is available
[19:41] <LaserJock> bdrung: I gotta run. I'll whip up a package and send it too you if you like
[19:42] <bdrung> LaserJock: yes
[19:42] <bdrung> or debdiff
[19:42] <bdrung> i found a typo. i will upload a fix to debians svn
[19:43] <LaserJock> bdrung: do you have commit access to the svn repo?
[19:44] <bdrung> yes
[19:44] <bdrung> since some weeks
[19:44] <LaserJock> wow, sweet, was that easy to get?
[19:44] <bdrung> yes
[19:44] <LaserJock> cool
[19:45] <bdrung> make an account on alioth.debian.org and request to join the python project
[19:45] <LaserJock> I gotta run, as I said, I'll send you an email today
[19:45] <LaserJock> or attach a debdiff to the bug, or something
[19:47] <bucket529> Need someone to change bug 282313 from 'Undecided' to 'Wishlist' - triaged packaging request
[19:55] <bdrung> bucket529: done
[19:55] <bucket529> bdrung: Thank you.
[20:24] <bdmurray> bucket529: Hi!  I've noticed you've assigned a few bugs to the grub package is that right?
[20:52] <azimout_> anyone here from bugcontrol?
[20:54] <bdmurray> azimout_: I am
[20:54] <azimout_> hi, bill murray
[20:54] <azimout_> regarding this bug:
[20:55] <azimout_> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linda/+bug/191565
[20:55] <azimout_> the package is not in the repositories of hardy and intrepid, not in debian, and generally abandoned
[20:55] <azimout_> what should we do about this bug?
[20:56] <RAOF> Wontfix it, saying that it's been removed from current & development versions.
[20:57] <RAOF> Since that bug doesn't appear SRU worthy, Intrepid's the only place that bug applies, anyway.
[20:57] <azimout_> sorry, i meant brian murray. bill murray is the actor :-$
[20:59] <azimout_> that is correct
[21:08] <raboof> should this be a bug against the kernel (which fails to suspend) or acpi-support (which fails to unmount the remote disk before suspending), or both?
[21:08] <raboof> suspend fails when I try to suspend while a cifs partition that went offline is still mounted.
[21:13] <chrisccoulson> raboof - your problem might be with pm-utils
[21:13] <chrisccoulson> or the kernel
[21:15] <raboof> chrisccoulson: hmm, i'm not sure I'm using pm-utils
[21:15] <raboof> i'm calling /etc/acpi/sleep.sh (from acpi-support)
[21:15] <raboof> actually I don't quite see how pm-utils and acpi-support relate :)
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> acpi-support is largely obsolete. with a normal configuration, pm-utils is used. Are you calling sleep.sh with the 'force' option?
[21:17] <raboof> chrisccoulson: no, only 'sleep'
[21:17] <raboof> so pm-utils replaces acpi-support nowadays?
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> this is a desktop right? with full gui? is gnome-power-manager running?
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> if gnome-power-manager is running, then /etc/acpi/sleep.sh just exits without doing anything
[21:18] <raboof> it's a desktop with X, but gnome-power-manager is not running
[21:19] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok, so it will take care of the sleep. normally, the request to sleep from the desktop goes through HAL, which uses pm-utils
[21:21] <raboof> i'll see if pm-suspend works for me, too
[21:26] <raboof> ok, seemed to work nicely. So the recommende way is to use pm-utils - can I safely remove acpi-support from the system?
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> so, pm-suspend works successfully?
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> i would keep acpi-support, as acpid uses it to handle acpi events from the kernel
[21:28] <chrisccoulson> only remove acpi-support if you're not using acpid
[21:29] <raboof> i seem to be using that (or at least, it's running :) )
[21:29] <raboof> weird to have 2 so similar services in place though
[21:32] <chrisccoulson> well, there is a bit of overlap but they aren't that similar
[21:33] <raboof> well, they both seem to have a sysvinit-like way of configure what happens on suspend/wakeup - though it looks like pm-utils' is a lot simpler
[21:34] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think you're right. but acpi-support contains scripts to handle a variety of ACPI events from the kernel (not just suspend/hibernate)
[21:37] <chrisccoulson> whilst everybodies minds are focused on gnome-power-manager, i have an issue which I think might be g-p-m (or it could be gnome-session). i wouldn't mind somebodies opinion before i open a bug report
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> basically, i have g-p-m set to ask me what to do when the power button is pressed (which I think is the default). In this case, the upstream logout session-dialog appears when i press the power button. If you don't respond to the dialog, it logs you out automatically after 60 seconds.
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> the problem is when multiple users are logged on to the system. if i press the power button, then the session dialog appears on everybodies desktops (including inactive users). 60 seconds later, all of the inactive users get logged out!
[21:38] <chrisccoulson> fantastic!
[21:42] <james_w> nice
[21:42] <chrisccoulson> can you recreate that?
[21:43] <james_w> let me try
[21:43] <james_w> I believe ted is going to upload a change so that it tries to call over dbus to request the shutdown dialog instead
[21:44] <james_w> I don't know if this will have an effect here
[21:44] <james_w> chrisccoulson: is the logout dialog global?
[21:44] <james_w> i.e. if the active user cancels no-one gets logged out?
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> only the users who don't click get logged out
[21:45] <chrisccoulson> the logout dialog is just the gnome-session logout dialog
[21:45] <chrisccoulson> teds fix to call the 'shutdown' dialog will make it worse, as that shuts the machine down if you don't respond within 60seconds
[21:46] <chrisccoulson> so even if the active user cancels the dialog, the machine will still shut down without warning in 60s
[21:46] <chrisccoulson> ouch!
[21:46] <james_w> chrisccoulson: yeah, let's hope that won't happen
[21:46] <chrisccoulson> hopefully. so, g-p-m shouldn't really call the session dialog unless the users session is the active one, should it?
[21:49] <james_w> I'm not sure it can know
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> it must be able to though, because it knows not to automatically suspend the machine or turn off the monitor when a user is inactive
[21:51] <chrisccoulson> unless that is enforced elsewhere?
[21:54] <james_w> well, something should be able to
[21:54] <james_w> it uses consolekit to do that, so we probably need some more consolekit love here
[21:54] <james_w> when the user presses the power button pop up a dialog to all active sessions
[21:55] <james_w> if the user chooses to shutdown then ask to confirm if there are multiple users logged in?
[21:55] <chrisccoulson> that would be good.
[21:55] <james_w> dealing with a timed shutdown isn't going to be good though
[21:55] <chrisccoulson> the session dialog already pops up a policykit auth prompt if you try to shut down when multiple users are logged in
[21:57] <RAOF> dbus has the concept of active console; there are a bunch of policies which allow only the active console to frob the knob.
[21:58] <chrisccoulson> RAOF: is that 'at_console'
[21:58] <RAOF> I think it might be.
[21:59] <chrisccoulson> doesn't that open it for anyone logged in at a console (active and inactive)?
[22:00] <james_w> RAOF: that's deprecated now, replaced by consolekit
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> i'll open a bug report against g-p-m for this problem anyway. i wonder if it was an issue in hardy?
[22:03] <chrisccoulson> there was no timeout on the session dialog in hardy though
[22:07] <RAOF> james_w: Oh.  I thought it was talking to consolekit.  Oh, well.
[22:08] <james_w> well, sorry, I think it is implemented via consolekit now
[22:08] <james_w> but I believe 'at_console' itself is deprecated, and hoped to go away
[22:09] <RAOF> Poor at_console :)
[22:09] <james_w> chrisccoulson: yeah, I can reproduce
[22:09] <chrisccoulson> thanks!
[22:11] <james_w> chrisccoulson: would you /join #ubuntu-desktop for a minute?
[22:11] <chrisccoulson> np
[23:01] <azimout> question: support for feisty ends in less than 5 days (19.10.2008)
[23:02] <azimout> there's still 131 bugs associated with it
[23:02] <azimout> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty/+bugs
[23:02] <azimout> what are we going to do about that?
[23:06] <greg-g> azimout: the simple answer: it depends
[23:07] <greg-g> it depends on the bug and if it is reproducible in any later version
[23:10] <azimout> i see. thanx
[23:11] <charlie-tca> I got at least one in work, it's a memory leak against feisty but may carry over
[23:17] <barmymatt> Hi. I've provided some information on a bug and have now been asked to start the application from terminal (no problem) and to "attach my trace".  How do I create the trace that I'm being asked for?... or where should I look for more info? Cheers.
[23:17] <greg-g> charlie-tca: yeah, best thing to do is to see if you can reproduce it with Intrepid.
[23:17] <bdmurray> barmymatt: what bug?
[23:18] <charlie-tca> We're working on it
[23:18] <barmymatt> 273159 - a problem with mythbuntu control centre
[23:18] <bdmurray> bug 273159
[23:19] <barmymatt> that's the one....
[23:20] <barmymatt> so... how do I create the trace that I'm being asked for?
[23:23] <bdmurray> barmymatt: it's not clear to me what he is looking for but you can find Mario (superm1) in #ubuntu-devel
[23:24] <barmymatt> bdmurray: thanks, I'll find him.
[23:39] <MTecknology> so - if a bug is marked Invalid, that means that it doesn't exist which means it could have been fixed or not, but nobody is on the other end to say that it is either way...
[23:39] <MTecknology> is that right?
[23:41] <bdmurray> Bugs can also be Invalid because there wasn't enough information to determine the root cause so Fix Released is inappropriate.
[23:41] <afflux> hello
[23:54] <afflux> back from 5 days without internet, thanks to my isp, reading my bug mail. Just saw this mail from tdflanders: Hi there Pedro, Kjell Braden is not responding, possibly on a Holiday. I am reassigning all compiz.real bugs to you, since I do not know the developers of this package. I will also notify the launchpad team. This is obviously a very important bug. Cheers, Thomas.
[23:55] <afflux> This guy obviously has too much free time.
[23:55] <bdmurray> afflux: that's interesting
[23:55] <afflux> he filled my inbox with ~40 mails, all containing about the same content but in different duplicates of the same bug.