[12:51] <pips1> hi
[12:51] <pips1> is there a meeting in 10 mins?
[12:52] <pips1> or in the evening?
[12:55] <pips1> ogra ?
[12:56] <ogra> pips1, we did have meetings since about 5 months anymore
[12:56] <pips1> ^^^
[12:56] <ogra> *didnt
[12:56] <pips1> wow
[12:56] <pips1> so... what's the story?
[12:56] <pips1> are you now fully working on ubuntu?
[12:57] <pips1> what's the story with edubuntu? is it now mainly a "community" add-on? while comminity means mostly laserjock packaging edu apps?
[12:58] <pips1> *community
[12:58] <pips1> hi stgraber
[12:58] <ogra> i'm working in the mobile team since some months
[12:59] <pips1> ic
[12:59] <pips1> is RichEd still around?
[12:59] <pips1> stgraber: I heard you joined canonical? is that right?
[13:00] <ogra> he is at my place and i'll beat him into joining the channel if he comes out of the kitchen, but he wasnt around for months
[13:00] <pips1> heh
[13:05] <pips1> ogra: is that RichEd in your kitchen, or stgraber?
[13:06] <pips1> or both :-)
[13:06] <pips1> ?
[13:06] <ogra> Rich
[13:06] <pips1> oki
[13:08] <pips1> Has stgraber moved to Canada?! This is what a little birdy wistled into my ear...
[13:08] <pips1> RichEd come on! Have a chat with me! :-)
[13:10] <pips1> hey RichEd
[13:10] <pips1> how is it going?
[13:10] <RichEd-> hey pips1
[13:10] <pips1> long time no see
[13:10] <RichEd-> okay thanks ... & yourself ?
[13:10] <pips1> I'm very good
[13:10] <pips1> lots of changes
[13:11] <RichEd-> :)
[13:11] <RichEd-> work wise ?
[13:11] <pips1> yes, too
[13:12] <pips1> I start work for a web dev company in zurich on nov 1st
[13:12] <pips1> I'll continue teaching at the uni
[13:13] <RichEd> one of our canonical chaps has been having quite a lot of contact with switzerland & edu (and CERN as well)
[13:15] <pips1> I got this auto reminder from launchpad that my edubuntu membership is about to expire (in 3 days). That finally kicked me into getting in touch with you guys. :-)
[13:16] <pips1> so... what's the story with edubuntu?
[13:16] <pips1> ogra working on the mobile team... what about you?
[13:17] <pips1> ogra: you still working on the classmate pc?
[13:17] <ogra> nope
[13:17] <ogra> thats all in hands of the commercial team now
[13:18] <pips1> 'commercial team', aha oho
[13:18]  * ogra points pips1 to http://ograblog.wordpress.com/2008/09/23/announcing-the-first-ubuntu-mobile-image
[13:18]  * pips1 reads
[13:20] <pips1> MID mobile internet device, ah
[13:20] <pips1> 'touchscreen centric gnome mobile desktop' sounds cool
[13:20] <pips1> oops, I hear my son has woken up
[13:20]  * pips1 checks on son
[13:25] <stgraber> pips1: I'm in Canada working for Revolution Linux on LTSP, I worked for a month as a contractor for Canonical (QA website and certification website)
[13:27] <pips1> hey stgraber
[13:27] <pips1> so how is canada?
[13:36] <pips1> RichEd ogra I need to look after my son, who has a bit of a cold... so I won't be able to talk much :-/
[13:37] <pips1> I just want to know for short if you need any help with the edubuntu.org website for the Intrepid release...
[13:37] <RichEd> stgraber: hi there ... your CMPC was hijacked by lexington :( ... but i'm going to ship you my "extra" when i get back home in 2 weeks
[13:38] <RichEd> how is revolution linux ?
[13:38] <pips1> Clearly, I not spending much time on #edubuntu anymore... so I don't know what to do about the edubuntu membership... perhaps it should just expire..
[13:39] <RichEd> pips1: i'll be looking into that in the next week ... waiting for some pages to go live on ubuntu.com which explain the shift towards ubuntu education edition
[13:40] <pips1> I'll try to check back here in a bit but now i need to look after my son
[13:41] <pips1> cu!
[13:47] <stgraber> RichEd: cool
[13:47] <stgraber> RichEd: really great, working on LTSP is really cool
[13:48] <RichEd> i've had some dealings with them ... seems like they have some large rollouts for LTSP edu
[13:49] <stgraber> yes, and a lot more to come :)
[13:49] <stgraber> I'm basically pushing everything upstream now
[13:50] <stgraber> but we have some new mass deployments that'll likely happen in a close future
[13:58] <RichEd> well keep us up to date with the news if you can ...
[14:00] <RichEd> this is the chap I have chatted to over email:  	Benoit St-André
[14:00] <stgraber> yeah, he's just in front of me now :)
[14:01] <nubae> Aghanistan is doing a big deployment of 20,000 xos, and will be using ubuntu servers I believe
[14:02] <nubae> they're looking for volunteers, but who will want to work there I wonder :D
[14:09] <RichEd> nubae: you may be surprised ... but the US military has some inspired individuals who give up time and effort to assist with the local population whilst they are stationed in "conflict" territories ...
[14:10] <RichEd> i guess it helps them (the individual people) feel more human against the backdrop of the "invasion force" day job :/
[14:10] <nubae> well, I'd consider it myself, but I'm too involved in the Austrian take up of xos and ltsp
[14:20]  * HedgeMage peeks in
[14:21] <HedgeMage> hi, guys :)
[14:26] <RichEd> hi HedgeMage ... see nubae comment above ... do you know any US military guys in Afghanistan looking to support ubuntu server and xos in their spare time ;)
[14:29] <HedgeMage> RichEd: I know a few people stationed there, I can put out feelers.  Unless one of my barracks rats or someone I've trained is there, though, tough luck finding someone who's ever seen Linux.  Unlike the other branches of the US military, the Army has resisted implementing Linux, and when they do, they hire in consultants to work on it, and don't let the soldiers touch it (with few exceptions)
[14:29] <nubae> really, they rely on windows?
[14:29]  * nubae shudders
[14:29] <HedgeMage> nubae: Yep, for the most part.
[14:30] <HedgeMage> nubae: after a few embarassing security breaches, they moved some of the back end to Solaris, but under protest.
[14:30]  * RichEd hope the big red button does not rely on Vista ... or else we are all doomed !
[14:30] <nubae> jeez...
[14:30] <nubae> the world's number 1 military uses windows 8-)
[14:31] <RichEd> HedgeMage: ^ oooohhh .... free software with expensive consultants ... them peops sure knows how to make their taxpayers money go further
[14:31] <nubae> lol
[14:31] <RichEd> nubae: number 1 at what ;)
[14:31]  * RichEd ducks
[14:32] <HedgeMage> nubae: not all of our military, just the army
[14:32] <nubae> ah... others use Linux?
[14:32] <HedgeMage> nubae: the other branches are all migrating to linux under the recommendations of the DoD and NSA
[14:33] <nubae> ah cool
[14:33] <HedgeMage> they aren't all Linux yet, but they are crawling there at the usual beurocratic pace :)
[14:33] <nubae> funny how the first to catch on was hollywood, who is now exclusively linux based
[14:34] <RichEd> nubae: makes sense ... a movie is only 90-120 mins long ... not enuff time for vista to boot is it
[14:34] <HedgeMage> nubae: what is sad is that the Army personnel being retasked from Win to Solaris admins get a whole 7 days of training
[14:34] <HedgeMage> These people are in charge of secure systems
[14:35] <nubae> gasp...
[14:35] <HedgeMage> 7 freaking days
[14:35] <nubae> thats kinda like dumping them in Afghanistan or Iraq without supplies
[14:35] <nubae> oh wait...
[14:35] <nubae> :D
[14:38] <HedgeMage> you realize that the release of OpenSolaris is a direct result of US Army contracts, right?
[14:41] <nubae> nope... I looked at OpenSolaris couple years ago... but its quite different to bsd and linux
[14:41] <nubae> the learning curve is huge if you're moving from windows...
[14:41] <nubae> hell its huge if u move from linux
[14:42] <HedgeMage> The NSA got fed up with Windows security breaches (some of which were disastrous and easy)... they gave the DoD an ultimatum: switch to Linux or else.
[14:43] <nubae> servers and desktops?
[14:43] <HedgeMage> Everything.
[14:43] <nubae> nice, and they got a date when this is happening?
[14:43] <HedgeMage> Yes, though several years out, remember that these are HUGE organizations with no one who knows anything but windows.
[14:44] <HedgeMage> And, many things they can't open to the community because of intel. issues, etc.
[14:44] <nubae> so it will be like hollywood, a closed army of linux devs...
[14:45] <nubae> finding and training them will be the challenge
[14:48] <moquist> any particular recommendations for >3G RAM on an edubuntu server other than running the server kernel instead of the desktop kernel?
[14:48] <HedgeMage> The Air Force seemed relieved (NASA, which was originally part of the Air Force, was already using Linux extensively) -- the Air Force and Navy are all about their tech toys anyway.  They couldn't do their jobs without computers, and they need reliability.  They value communications personnel (IT and programming fall under commo in the military) because they know what it's like trying to function without GPS, tracking and target acquisiti
[14:48] <HedgeMage> The marines' attitude toward it is "we use what the navy tells us to"
[14:50] <HedgeMage> The Coast Guard has a culture closer to civilians than the rest, so they took it in stride once they realized the benefits.
[14:51] <nubae> well >3 gigs u can either run 64 bit or use server kernel
[14:52] <nubae> cant think of any other ways
[14:52] <HedgeMage> The Army culture is different.  First off, tech jobs don't get promoted very highly.  If you don't blow stuff up, you don't get rank.
[14:52] <nubae> lol
[14:52] <nubae> where do u work HedgeMage?
[14:53] <HedgeMage> So, tank drivers and artillerymen are in charge of base-wide and army-wide IT decisions.  This is very, very bad.
[14:53] <HedgeMage> nubae: I am a web developer, but I used to be married to a guy in the Army, and I worked for the Army as a civilian.
[14:54] <RichEd> ^ ahhh .... HedgeMage does that explain McCain's eminent qualifications to run a country based on a knowledge of how to blow things up as opposed to knbowledge of how to send an email ?
[14:55] <HedgeMage> The non-techy people in charge of the Army's technology *freaked out* when Linux was made mandatory.  They didn't want "hippy crap", they didn't want software with "no one to hold responsible" (i.e. no big company), they didn't want to have to retrain people for what they saw as no benefit.
[14:55] <HedgeMage> RichEd: I am from where Obama is from... McCain is an idiot and an empty shirt, but Obama is worse.
[14:57]  * nubae wonders when Microsoft has ever been held responsible
[14:57] <HedgeMage> I know!
[14:58] <HedgeMage> Anyway, the Army and the higher-ups came to a compromise... if Sun would open source Solaris, then the Army would beb allowed to use it as an interim solution to stall the adoption of Linux for another decade or so.
[14:59] <HedgeMage> The NSA was satisfied because they could see the source and do what they needed with it, the Army was satisfied because Sun comes with a nice, friendly beurocracy and "no hippies"
[15:00] <HedgeMage> There was some OSS community involvement, I think, but I'm not sure how much.
[15:03] <RichEd> HedgeMage: but S(tanford) UN(inversity) was a definate hippie origin no ? "copying the functionality" of mainframe operating systems so that any university could run it in an affordable (i.,e. costs less than a house) basis ?
[15:04] <HedgeMage> RichEd: I never said it made sense
[15:04] <HedgeMage> RichEd: I said it was the army attitude :P
[15:05] <HedgeMage> Again, we are talking about tankers and artillerymen, not anyone trained on computers.
[15:05] <HedgeMage> You don't become a General by working in IT or military intelligence.  You become a General by blowing stuff up.
[15:06] <HedgeMage> Generals are even rare among army doctors... with the exception of those running the major army hospitals and the surgeon general (if not from another branch) they are almost unheard of.
[15:06] <RichEd> So would Divine Brown qualify for Colonel at least ?
[15:07] <HedgeMage> lol, who?
[15:23] <RichEd> Divine Brown ... she blew Hugh Grant up in a taxi a few years back
[15:23] <HedgeMage> oh, yeah
[15:23]  * HedgeMage chuckles
[15:39] <wpgmb> I have a dual nic Ubuntu 8.04 ltsp running. Clients can log in and access Internet. I would like to be able to ssh into client's /home from my system which is not part of the same subnet. I CAN ssh into the "gateway" nic, and from there jump to the "DHCP" nic. I have enable IP forwarding in /etc/sysctr.conf but it does not seem to work. What else do I need to do?
[15:42] <ogra> wpgmb, what would you want in the clients homes ? they are empty, theer are no user accounts on the clients
[15:43] <wpgmb> hmm. right now, the kids' computers are monitored by me from my system. I want to convert them all to thin clients, but still want to be able to access their data.
[15:44] <ogra> but the sessions and accounts are on the server in a thin client setup
[15:44] <wpgmb> I understand that, but I can't access the data they have on the server
[15:57] <wpgmb> I was given to understand that portforwarding would let me ssh into the second nic from where I could access the /home data. But forwarding is not working. I'm thinking that in addition to the regular /etc/sysctrl.conf file an additional file perhaps specific to an ltsp setup with dual nics?
[16:16] <sbalneav> Morning all
[16:18] <wpgmb> hi!
[16:19] <wpgmb> I just posted a message this am further to our conversation yesterday  :)
[16:20] <sbalneav> Where, in edubuntu-users?
[16:21] <sbalneav> I don't see anything there yet.
[16:22] <wpgmb> no here
[16:23] <sbalneav> Well, I just re-joined, so I don't see it.  Did you get your forwarding going?
[16:24] <wpgmb> yes and no. the config file is edited, but no luck yet
[16:25] <sbalneav> so, just so I understand, here's your network layout:
[16:26] <sbalneav> [pc & thin client] <---> [switch] <--> [ltspbox] <--> [router] <--> [internet]
[16:29] <wpgmb> correct. the "router" (IPCop box) has two nics: one (green) for my system on 192.168.0.0/24 and another one (blue) going to to the ltsp server with 192.168.1.0/24.  The second (dhcp) nic in ltsp server has static 192.168.3.1.  This last nic is not plugged into the switch - I was going to use a separate switch, or maybe Vlan the (cisco 1900 series) switch to separate them.
[16:30] <wpgmb> My system 192.168.0.2 can ping 192.168.1.2 and ssh into it. I can't ssh directly into x.x.3.1, only through x.x.1.2
[16:35] <sbalneav> right, so why not simply move the pc to the same subnet that the ltsp server
[16:35] <sbalneav> 's backbone is on
[16:35] <sbalneav> in other words:
[16:36] <sbalneav> [terminals] <--> [ltsp-server] <--> switch (connect pc here) <-> firewall ...
[16:37] <sbalneav> why double route the pc through the ltsp server.  One of your cards on the ltsp server is your "backbone" (i.e. internet traffic, filesharing, etc) one is just for the terminals
[16:37] <sbalneav> really, you don't WANT the pc on the terminal side, but on the backbone side.
[16:53] <wpgmb> I could do that, but I don't think that would solve the problem of not being able to ssh into the second nic. I think that problem is strictly inside the ltsp. The fact that I can ssh into the backbone nic sorta proves that, or not?
[16:56] <sbalneav> Well, thin clients ssh into the nic on that side, obviously, to log in.  And if you can ssh into the ltsp server from the backbone side, it's the same thing as sshing in from the thin client side.
[16:57] <sbalneav> there isn't a "problem" with the ltsp server, you just need to set up forwarding, and do iptables rules to make it all work.
[16:58] <sbalneav> If you really want to do that, it can be done,  but it really shouldn't be necissary, unless you're simply wanting to do it as an intellectual excercise
[16:59] <sbalneav> If that's the case, then there's about 1x10^6 web pages on setting up firewalls/forwarding between two nics, any one of them should work.  As well, the ufw package within ubuntu should also help you.
[17:01] <wpgmb> I'll have a look at all that, unless you can think of an easier way for me to NOT have my system as a LTSP client, but still can access the actual clients as if they were stand alones on the same subnet as my system.
[17:06] <sbalneav> But are the thin clients standalones?  are they only "sometimes" thin clients?
[17:06] <sbalneav> I guess I'm missing out on why the pc needs to be able to access the thin clients.
[17:07] <wpgmb> no, i'm going to have them permanently as thins, b/c they will have more "power" that way, since they're kinda old
[17:08] <wpgmb> I don't need to actually access the client boxes; I realize they will be "empty", but I want to be able to access their /home on the server and I want to be able to manipulate data on their /home's as well
[17:09] <sbalneav> But the /home comes from the server, not the thin client
[17:09] <sbalneav> you don't need access to the thin client to manipulate home, just the server
[17:10] <sbalneav> that's why I'm saying, you could just have the pc on the backbone side, and it would do exactly what you want.
[17:10] <sbalneav> no firewalling necessary
I don't need to actually access the client boxes; I realize they will be "empty", but I want to be able to access their /home on the server</quote>  lol
unless you can think of an easier way for me to NOT have my system as a LTSP client, but still can access the actual clients as if they were stand alones on the same subnet as my system
[17:17] <sbalneav> That's my easier way: move the PC to the backbone side.
[17:19] <wpgmb> I'll move some wires around tonight and see how that pans out. ttl - (we should do that over a beer sometime!)
[17:20] <sbalneav> You know where to find me.  I'll be here at Legal Aid 'till I retire, or they fire me :)
[17:23] <wpgmb> I don't think I could show up there with a six pack  :)
[17:26] <sbalneav> heh, no, but you can find me here to TELL me where to show up for the beer :)  the sbalneav@ltsp.org just forwards here to my @legalaid.mb.ca account.
[17:27] <wpgmb> ok, will do soon!
[17:28] <nubae> sbalneav: did my mail server reject your mail again?
[17:28] <sbalneav> I daenno, lemme have a quick shuftie
[17:33] <sbalneav> nubae: see personal message
[18:54] <pips1> RichEd: lemme know if the Intrepid Ibex edubuntu add-on cds will be downloaded from edubuntu.org or only from ubuntu.com... unfortunately, on release day itself, I have an appointment from 10am onwards, so if you need my help, we need to do it the day before... thanks
[18:54] <pips1> ogra: ^^^
[18:55]  * ogra has no clue how they will be handled, all i know is they wont be available through shipit
[19:12] <pips1> ta
[19:12] <pips1> cu folks!
[19:12] <pips1> good night