[00:00] <jclift26> ok but the driver wasn't there in the 1st place,gotcha, crimsun, do u want me 2 log that workaround there anyway?
[00:00] <maco> jclift26: he's afk right now as he switches coffee shops
[00:00] <jclift26> OK, gotcha, maco ta
[00:00] <jclift26> ok onwards any idea about webcam issues/
[00:01] <maco> jclift26: did it used to work?
[00:01] <jclift26> only after workaround, i'd never had soundcard detected b4 that, that was in .16/ .19 and .21
[00:01] <maco> jclift26: try reinstalling the driver as you did in that thread and after a reboot sound should work with .21.  make sure you're running .21 when you compile it
[00:01] <jclift26> cool.will do
[00:02] <maco> now about the webcam, did it work in another kernel but not now, or did it never work?
[00:04] <jclift26> never worked.
[00:04] <jclift26> built-in
[00:04] <maco> jclift26: is there a bug filed for it?
[00:05] <jclift26> i think so , been mentioned lots on forums so assumed but never filed bug b4
[00:06] <maco> jclift26: run "lsusb" and is it listed?
[00:06] <jclift26> doesn't look like 1310 is there, others w similar issues, i know w. 1400/ 1510
[00:07] <jclift26> vostro that is
[00:07] <maco> jclift26: no no, not the laptop model. the webcam can change with the same laptop model.
[00:07] <jclift26> Bus 006 Device 002: ID 0c45:63e0 Microdia
[00:07] <jclift26> Bus 006 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
[00:07] <jclift26> Bus 007 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
[00:07] <jclift26> Bus 005 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
[00:07] <jclift26> Bus 004 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
[00:07] <jclift26> Bus 003 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
[00:07] <jclift26> Bus 002 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
[00:07] <jclift26> Bus 001 Device 001: ID 0000:0000
[00:07] <maco> ah!
[00:07] <jclift26> that sound +ve
[00:07] <maco> ok so im guessing what you meant to say was "yes'
[00:07] <jclift26> yes
[00:08] <jclift26> sorry, midnight here...LOL
[00:08] <maco> so search for 0c45:63e0 in the bugs
[00:08] <maco> if you run "lsusb -v | less" in a terminal (and *don't* paste it here), i'm guessing about the 2nd line will say that it's the webcam
[00:09] <jclift26> ah (now understands)
[00:09] <jclift26> ok
[00:09] <jclift26> says miscellaneous device
[00:10] <jclift26> nothing about webcam
[00:10] <maco> so, is Microdia the webcam?
[00:10] <maco> eh, google says it is
[00:10] <jclift26> i think so..cool
[00:10] <jclift26> thought it was creative, but obviously wrong, ta
[00:11] <maco> jclift26: so, what i suggest you do, is look for a bug with that usb vendor and id listed.  if it doesn't exist, create it.  also, try the driver here http://linux-uvc.berlios.de/ and if it works, include in the bug the fact that it works
[00:12] <jclift26> willl do
[00:12] <jclift26> have looked only thing is about broadband, so will file bug
[00:12] <maco> jclift26: if it does work, any of us on Bug Control can mark it Triaged
[00:13] <jclift26> awesome, i'll get back to u asap  thanks for being so patient
[00:39] <crimsun> jclift26: probably best to proceed in #ubuntu-audio-help
[00:39] <jclift26> ok, thanks crimsun
[00:39] <crimsun> (sorry, hectic tonight due to US presidential candidates' debate)
[00:39] <jclift26> video compiled didn't work will report
[00:40] <jclift26> a for sure, good luck w. that
[00:40] <crimsun> jclift26: /join #ubuntu-audio-help  when you have a chance
[00:42] <jclift26> will do ,def. ta for all help
[00:56] <crimsun> if jclift26 ever reappears, I need to know whether he was using model=dell
[01:01] <maco> crimsun: he compiled the driver himself
[01:01] <crimsun> yep, and I simply need to confirm his init verbs
[01:02] <crimsun> it's a pretty straightforward backport if he was using that model quirk.
[01:03] <maco> ah ok
[01:39] <mrooney> Hm, so what is the intent of the new "affects me"?
[01:40] <mrooney> Is that to distinguish people actually experiencing the issue, apart from the larger set of subscribers, some of who may just be interested or watching, or working on it?
[01:43] <greg-g> to give people another option other than "+1" or "me too!" etc
[01:45] <mrooney> greg-g: now they'll just do both :)
[01:46] <greg-g> well, we can try I suppose
[01:49] <crimsun> shame http://news.launchpad.net/cool-new-stuff/feelin-hot-hot-hot is a dead link
[01:50] <crimsun> I suppose that would have linked to an answer to mrooney's question
[01:50] <crimsun> (cf. https://launchpad.net/)
[01:56] <mrooney> Anyone know a person to ping regarding Compiz issues? mvo isn't around but I assume if he were he would be good
[03:02] <lifesaglitch> Is there some sort of documentation for OpenOffice to find out expected functionality
[04:35] <lifesaglitch> Is there some sort of documentation for OpenOffice to find out expected behavior?
[05:02] <Hew> I found an interesting bug. If you repeatedly press the ` key quite fast, it will type as if you're holding down the button. Anyone know what package this should go under, or can anyone else reproduce it?
[05:04] <greg-g> can't reproduce it, sounds like hardware
[05:10] <techno_freak> urgh, i got into a weird bug. the currently active window started to move along workspaces, but not when it is not active by clicking outside. secondly when i clicked on a channel in the xchat list, the channel tab closed. and my key board got screwed up
[05:10] <techno_freak> this was all for few mins, and it came back to normalcy
[05:16] <lifesaglitch> If a user reports a bug, and it's actually by design... but will be improved/fixed in a later release... What should the status be set to?
[05:18] <lifesaglitch> Or can it be marked as a duplicate of an upstream bug?
[05:18] <lifesaglitch> ie. OpenOffice
[06:10] <Spudz_> PMT: Did you get the same CD problem?
[06:13] <lifesaglitch> Am I invisible?
[06:20] <lifesaglitch> Hello?
[06:21] <Spudz_> yo
[06:23] <lifesaglitch> Hooray! I'm not invisible.
[06:24] <Spudz_> Actually you are.  But I'm telepathic, and I sensed you wish to communicate.
[06:24] <lifesaglitch> Ah... well it's a step up
[06:24] <Spudz_> :]
[06:24] <lifesaglitch> Are you able to help me assign a status to a bug?
[06:24] <lifesaglitch> I want to finish so it will leave me alone
[06:25] <Spudz_> soz dood I'm a noob too :)
[06:25] <lifesaglitch> haha
[06:25] <lifesaglitch> Excellent
[06:25] <lifesaglitch> Shall we flip a coin then?
[06:26] <Spudz_> whats yer bug?
[06:26] <lifesaglitch> It is not actually a bug. It is a feature by design. Already known about upstream and it is supposedly going to be changed in a later version.
[06:27] <Spudz_> mine's that the CD writer is baulking at a massive folder (i386 off XP cd)
[06:27] <lifesaglitch> How big is it?
[06:27] <Spudz_> 6000 files
[06:28] <lifesaglitch> Right...
[06:28] <lifesaglitch> What is it doing?
[06:28] <lifeless> lifesaglitch: if there is an upstream bug, just link to it
[06:28] <Spudz_> plus it wont write a boot-cd, which I think is important for a sys recovery cd
[06:28] <Spudz_> what's an upstream bug?
[06:28] <lifesaglitch> lifeless: I mentioned the link in my comment, but I didn't know if there was a more official way or what I should set the status to.
[06:29] <lifeless> Spudz_: most software in ubuntu is written by people unrelated to ubuntu, we refer to them as 'upstream'; an upstream bug is one in the bug tracker for the original authors of a component of ubuntu
[06:29] <lifeless> lifesaglitch: there is a link to link to upstream bugs
[06:29] <lifeless> 'also affects'
[06:29] <lifesaglitch> ah
[06:30] <lifesaglitch> Perfect.
[06:30] <lifesaglitch> What do I do about the status after I link?
[06:30] <lifeless> set it appropriately for ubuntu; in this case I'd say its triaged wishlist
[06:31] <lifeless> it is a bug (designs can be wrong too :)), upstream are on it
[06:32] <lifesaglitch> it's not a bug
[06:32] <lifesaglitch> it's by design
[06:32] <lifesaglitch> haha
[06:32] <lifeless> lifesaglitch: upstream agree that it is wrong, correct ?
[06:32] <lifesaglitch> They say that it is a feature that should be implemented
[06:32] <lifesaglitch> :D
[06:32] <lifeless> lifesaglitch: then it clearly is a defect
[06:32] <lifesaglitch> Potato, Potahto
[06:32] <lifesaglitch> :p
[06:33] <lifeless> lifesaglitch: everyone agrees on that, it doesn't matter if its a build-flag, a code-bug, or a design that was wrong; its a bug
[06:33] <lifesaglitch> What do you mean a design that was wrong?
[06:34] <lifesaglitch> also, I can't set it to triaged
[06:34] <lifeless> lifesaglitch: if you've linked to the upstream bug, just leave it at this point; sounds like you aren't in the bugsquad yet
[06:35] <lifesaglitch> I thought I did everything I was supposed to to join...
[06:35] <lifesaglitch> :(
[06:35] <lifesaglitch> I can change it to other statuses
[06:35] <lifesaglitch> just not triaged
[06:35] <lifesaglitch> lol
[06:36] <lifeless> that fine, leave it on confirmed
[06:37] <maco> lifesaglitch: only bug control can do that.  do you need me to set it to triaged?
[06:39] <lifesaglitch> maco: Aha... I thought that was the case... yeah... I think it should be set to triaged
[06:39] <lifesaglitch> maco: bug 273695
[06:40] <maco> oh shiz i think i complained about that one on my blog on friday
[06:40] <maco> er, thursday
[06:40] <lifesaglitch> maco: haha... what about it?
[06:42] <maco> lifesaglitch: eh, ok not what i complained about.  but close. i mean, the fact that the proposed workaround *doesn't* *workaround* it is what i was complaining about
[06:42] <lifesaglitch> My workaround doesn't? Or the one you were complaining about?
[06:43] <maco> william's
[06:43] <maco> is that you?
[06:44] <lifesaglitch> Maco: Shure is
[06:44] <lifesaglitch> :D
[06:44] <maco> if you try to set the style for Outline #, there's no option to set the spacing available
[06:44] <maco> there's color, there's % size
[06:44] <maco> but setting indentation and spacing from bullet to text are not available in the style settings
[06:45] <maco> that has to be done by selecting each outline and setting them
[06:45] <maco> on every darned slide -_-
[06:45] <maco> er, i was working in Impress
[06:45] <lifesaglitch> figured
[06:45] <lifesaglitch> I thought it did though... one sec
[06:47] <lifesaglitch> It works with spacing
[06:48] <lifesaglitch> Maco: maybe it works differently in impress?
[06:48] <maco> lifesaglitch: are you talking about vertical spacin
[06:48] <lifesaglitch> Maco: Horizontal
[06:48] <maco> lifesaglitch: in Impress there's an "Indents & Spacing" tab but it's talking about paragraph spacing
[06:49] <lifesaglitch> This bug is about writer
[06:50] <maco> lifesaglitch: http://imagebin.org/28816 it doesnt look like that in Writer too?
[06:50] <maco> O_o writer and impress are now having a fight over who gets to be the front-most window. lovely.
[06:51] <lifesaglitch> Maco, lol. Not exactly the same, no. There are only 6 tabs in writer for one. The reporter was trying to adjust "Indent" and "Spacing to Text" options.
[06:52]  * maco is stunned
[06:52] <maco> ok so obviously they didnt make impress's crappy interface after making writer have a better one
[06:53] <maco> so that means they fixed some crappy UI in writer and totally ignored impress
[06:53] <lifesaglitch> Maco: I couldn't say. I try to avoid using Impress... ;-D
[06:53] <maco> i thought such things as the Styles & Formatting component were the same throughout open office
[06:53] <maco> oh, im gonna be avoiding it for a while now too
[06:53] <maco> well, i *guess* i could learn C++ and try to help fix it...
[06:54] <maco> but really, id rather just use LaTeX
[06:54] <lifesaglitch> Maco: I don't believe there is any way to adjust vertical spacing in the bullets options of writer
[06:55] <maco> lifesaglitch: so you look at the "list 1" thing in the Styles window, right?
[06:55] <maco> ugh, ok so this isnt just plain bad UI, but rather *inconsistent* UI that is consistently bad
[06:56] <lifesaglitch> Maco... did you want me to post a screen shot? lol
[06:57] <maco> lifesaglitch: do me a favor and open impress too.  put an outline on a slide. hit F11 to open the styles window.
[06:57] <maco> then look back and forth between writer and impress
[06:57] <maco> dholbach: good morning
[06:57] <dholbach> hiya maco
[06:58] <dholbach> good morning everybody else
[06:58] <maco> we're trying to find the extent to which OOo's bad UI is an inconsistent yet consistently bad UI
[06:58] <Spudz_> grr I cant find out how to file a bug
[06:58] <Spudz_> surely it cant be so hard
[06:58] <thekorn> good morning dholbach
[06:58] <Spudz_> I'm in launchpad.
[06:59] <maco> Spudz_: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs
[06:59] <Spudz_> I've registered.  I'm on the bugs tb.
[06:59] <dholbach> Spudz_:  http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug ?
[06:59] <maco> Spudz_: just hit the red "Report a Bug" buttom
[06:59] <maco> *button
[06:59] <dholbach> hi thekorn
[06:59] <lifesaglitch> maco: was the image in the bin of the bullets and numbering window in impress?
[06:59] <maco> yes
[06:59] <Spudz_> im a muppet
[06:59] <Spudz_> thx
[06:59] <maco> lifesaglitch: that's not the one you get when you go to format -> bullets and numbering with your outline highlighted
[07:00] <Spudz_> i have a worrying ability to scour a webpage and repeatedly miss the one piece of information I need
[07:00] <maco> lifesaglitch: that's the one you get from the Styles window when you right-click -> modify on Outline 1
[07:00] <Spudz_> no matter how clearly it is illustrated
[07:00] <maco> Spudz_: dude, i go looking for my cell phone when i'm holdingit
[07:00] <maco> i think everybody has those moments
[07:00] <lifesaglitch> Maco: Ah... well mine still has one tab less... lol
[07:01] <maco> lifesaglitch: wait your OOo Impress has one tab less?
[07:01] <lifesaglitch> Maco: It doesn't have the Asian Typography tab, lol
[07:01] <maco> lifesaglitch: oh, ignore the Asian Typography one. i enabled Asian mode so i can type in Japanese neatly
[07:01] <lifesaglitch> Maco, I figured that was the case
[07:02] <maco> i was terribly confused to find that vertical textboxes are only available in Asian mode
[07:02] <maco> and by only available, i mean you try to add it to the toolbar, it appears momentarily, and then *poof* leaving the user going "what the....where'd it GO?"
[07:03] <maco> until you read the Help thing and it explains that those buttons are only available in Asian mode
[07:03] <lifesaglitch> Maco: lol. Btw, opening the settings the same way in Writer (modify) is still about the same as going through Format->Bullets and Numbering
[07:03] <maco> hrm
[07:03] <maco> i need to test in OOo 3 for these UI bugs
[07:04] <maco> and then go file them upstream
[07:04] <lifesaglitch> Maco... well... Intrepid releases soon
[07:04] <maco> Intrepid wont hav OOo 3
[07:04] <lifesaglitch> Maco: Won't it?
[07:04] <maco> and Intrepid is entirely too unstable for me
[07:04] <maco> no
[07:04] <maco> OOo 3 released too close to Intrepid's release
[07:05] <maco> by too unstable for me, i mean...i normally start at alpha 3.  intrepid is too unstable 2 weeks before release.
[07:05] <maco> i wont be upgrading until intel's wireless driver stops causing kernel panics
[07:06] <lifesaglitch> Maco... it's reasonably stable for me, but yeah... it's been a little bumpy
[07:07] <maco> i suspect the same driver is the cause of my hardy kernel panics, but those are weekly.  the intrepid version is like every 5 minutes
[07:08] <maco> its only for the exact wireless card i have
[07:10] <lifesaglitch> Maco, I knew that OpenOffice released soon to release... but I thought they were still going to try to get it in. Is it going to be a backport then?
[07:10] <maco> i think they said it wasnt going to make it
[07:10] <maco> there's a PPA for it
[07:11] <maco> but the default is still 2.4 i think
[07:11] <lifesaglitch> I guess a PPA is better than nothing
[07:11] <maco> i did ask the packager if a spare package OOo-3 could be in universe, like how in gutsy FF3b5 was firefox-3.0 in universe....no idea if that's happening or not though
[07:12] <maco> er, FF3a5, i think i mean
[07:13] <lifesaglitch> Maco, not sure how the versions work in the repos... core version seems different? anyway... version is pretty much the same in intrepid and hardy it looks like
[07:14] <maco> 3.0 is in debian experimental
[07:14] <maco> sid still has 2.4
[07:14] <maco> we sync from sid early in release
[07:14] <lifesaglitch> Maco: I thought Sid had the newest packages
[07:14] <maco> experimental is where they go before sid
[07:14] <lifesaglitch> ah
[07:14] <maco> not there long, just enough to see if they build and install, i think
[07:15] <lifesaglitch> Not too impressed with the default wallpaper in Intrepid
[07:15] <maco> it changed last week
[07:15] <lifesaglitch> oh?
[07:15] <lifesaglitch> Something better now?
[07:15] <Spudz_> is there a distinction beteween filing a feature request and filing a bug?
[07:15] <maco> it was circles in a spiral. now its something else
[07:15] <lifesaglitch> Spudz_: Yes...
[07:15] <maco> Spudz_: depends on how big of a request it is
[07:15] <lifesaglitch> haha
[07:16] <Spudz_> how to file a feature request?  Is there a separate irc chan?
[07:16] <maco> Spudz_: if its a tweak, like "make this icon bigger" then it can be a wishlist bug
[07:16] <maco> Spudz_: if its a large change, then put it on brainstorm and people can vote on the idea
[07:16] <Spudz_> request is that it should be possible to burn a boot-cd using the default software.  that's important if the cd is to be used as a recovery CD.
[07:17] <maco> using brasero, the default cd burner?
[07:17] <maco> it can burn any kind of cd...
[07:17] <lifesaglitch> That reminds me... I have been meaning to file a bug report against Brasero
[07:17] <maco> and your install disk is a bootable disk
[07:18] <lifesaglitch> If you double click an ISO, and tell Brasero to erase the disk that is in there... it will crash and burn
[07:18] <maco> cute
[07:18] <lifesaglitch> You have to open Brasero from the menu to make it work properly
[07:18] <lifesaglitch> for DVD-RW anyway
[07:18] <Spudz_> it looks like brasero can do a cd copy, or burn an image.  but it cant create a boot cd from a bunch of files.
[07:19] <lifesaglitch> Spudz_: You can use Brasero to create a custom disk
[07:19] <Spudz_> i've copied my XP CD onto my hdd.  And couldn't burn it back as a bootable CD.
[07:19] <maco> you copied it as an iso?  that's what "burn an image" means
[07:19] <Spudz_> no.   I'd copied the files over.
[07:19] <lifesaglitch> hahahahahahahahaha
[07:20] <lifesaglitch> ahem.
[07:20] <lifesaglitch> sorry
[07:20] <maco> ...thats not how you copy a cd
[07:20] <maco> but you can certainly tell it "burn all these files to this cd"
[07:20] <Spudz_> ehe should have done an iso.
[07:20] <Spudz_> maco: yes, but that cd can't be made bootable
[07:20] <Spudz_> thats my point.
[07:20] <maco> Spudz_: you dont understand what youre asking
[07:21] <maco> Spudz_: the menu files and such are already there because you copied them
[07:21] <maco> Spudz_: however the *order* of the files has changed to whatever order they were copied
[07:21] <maco> brasero cannot possibly *guess* at whta order the menu expects the files to be in
[07:21] <lifesaglitch> What he said
[07:22] <maco> if you know what order to add the files so that they are properly arranged, you can drag them about
[07:22] <maco> lifesaglitch: she
[07:22] <Spudz_> oreally!  You have to fix the order and it can make a CD bootable?
[07:22] <lifesaglitch> sorry, didn't mean to make any assumption of gender
[07:22] <maco> Spudz_: there's nothing special about a cd to make it bootable
[07:23] <maco> Spudz_: its just that the right files & menus are at the front...and then the files the menus try to point to are where they expect them to be if you want to get past the menu
[07:24] <lifesaglitch> Spudz_: Copying to an ISO, and then burning to a CD has a much better chance of working
[07:24] <Spudz_> ok ... this has been confusing me
[07:24] <Spudz_> lifesaglitch: yep: I know now.  But I was on XP and didn't have any ISO creation software.
[07:24]  * Spudz_ checks the fs of the XP CD
[07:24] <maco> ISO 9660
[07:25] <lifesaglitch> Spudz_: XP has software you can get... it just isn't as convenient as Ubuntu makes it
[07:25] <maco> cant you just rip the ISO using ubuntu?
[07:25] <maco> why rip the cd in windows and burn it in ubuntu?
[07:25] <Spudz_> I didn't have Ubuntu when I did it.
[07:26] <maco> oh
[07:26] <lifesaglitch> English needs a gender neutral pronoun...
[07:26] <Spudz_> I quickly copied my XP and Vista CD/DVDs, then sold my new computer, together with the CDs.  And was left with my old thinkpad, external HDD.
[07:26] <lifesaglitch> Well... a good one
[07:26] <maco> oh yeah if you had just ripped it like today because you needed it, it wouldnt make sense to rip it to windows if windows cant boot to rip it
[07:27] <Spudz_>  Got a ubuntu CD and have been working off that.   I like ubuntu :)  but I need windows for the speech recognition :/ I have rsi
[07:27] <maco> well you wouldn't be wanting to pirate software anyway, now would you?
[07:27] <Spudz_> lifesaglitch: true: a gender neutral animate pronoun
[07:27] <Flannel> lifesaglitch: besides "one"?
[07:27] <Spudz_> maco: arrrrrrrr
[07:27] <lifesaglitch> Flannel: I meant in the context of saying something like "What he/she said."
[07:27] <maco> i mean, if you sold that windows already, you and the person you sold it to can't be sharing that non-exclusive license...
[07:28] <Flannel> lifesaglitch: even if it isn't 100% proper, most people would consider "they" to be reasonable there.
[07:28] <lifesaglitch> Flannel: I guess... I just don't like it as much
[07:28] <Flannel> lifesaglitch: its closest third person singular that isn't neuter
[07:29] <maco> Spudz_: anyway, doing a quick search, if you just want something that can type out what you say, there's an app called "transcriber"
[07:29] <Flannel> (that you're going to get)
[07:29] <maco> Spudz_: and for controlling gnome, there's gnome-voice-control
[07:29] <lifesaglitch> Flannel: "They" is much better than "it"...
[07:29] <Flannel> lifesaglitch: correct
[07:29] <Spudz_> maco: really I've investigated.  It really is a mare getting decent continuous speech recognition on linux.  I've actually communicated with rms and the sphinx devs on this issue
[07:30] <lifesaglitch> Flannel: It doesn't even imply much in they way of humanity... much less gender
[07:30] <Flannel> lifesaglitch: but technically its a plural, but I'd never say "he/she" or (s)he
[07:30] <maco> i say "s/he"
[07:30] <maco> either that, or assume everyone on the internet is female
[07:30] <Spudz_> maco but that implies you don't know.  which could be embarssing sometimes.
[07:31] <Flannel> the proper, non-stupid way is to just assume a gender, yeah
[07:31] <Spudz_> lol
[07:31] <Flannel> You just get some people who get offended for that, for whatever reason.
[07:31] <maco> yes, i assume everyone is female on IRC until told otherwise
[07:31] <maco> well im not particularly offended by being called "he"...i just like accuracy
[07:32] <lifesaglitch> But if a higher percentage is male, wouldn't it be more logical to assume everyone is male?
[07:32] <maco> if i didnt spend so much time in #linuxchix, yes
[07:32] <maco> however that channel makes me forget there are males on IRC
[07:32] <lifesaglitch> maco: hah. I didn't know such a place existed
[07:32] <Flannel> lifesaglitch: historically, one assumes a male reader (unless theres a good reason to otherwise) at least when pronouns are involved
[07:33] <lifesaglitch> Flannel: True... then I stand by my earlier statement! ;-D
[07:33] <maco> although there are 3 in #linuxchix all the time.  maybe more, dunno
[07:33] <lifesaglitch> Ug... it is past my bed time
[07:34] <lifesaglitch> Good thing I'm skipping work tomorrow
[07:34] <lifesaglitch> ;-D
[07:35] <Flannel> lifesaglitch: and part of that assumption of the male form has to do with the genetive and possesive forms, which used "his" as the neuter form (as well as the masculine form) until relatively recently
[07:35] <Spudz_> english is missing many words and constructs.  we should import them from more evolved cultures, like tibetan buddhism or sanskrit
[07:35] <lifesaglitch> haha
[07:35] <maco> or russian
[07:35] <maco> russian has neuter
[07:35] <lifesaglitch> It's not so irrational... I mean... what is English anyway?
[07:35] <Spudz_> like 'ekagrata': single point of natural focus.
[07:35] <maco> i had to point out in the "ubuntero sounds male" discussian that if you end a word in -o it's neuter in russian, but if it ends in a consonant, it's male
[07:36] <Spudz_> What's s/he in Russian?
[07:36] <maco> i dont actually know...i havent had a russian class in 2 years
[07:36] <Spudz_> from spanish pov, ending in o is male, ending in a is female
[07:36] <maco> i just remember that the language has 3 genders, and the word for a dress is neuter
[07:36] <Spudz_> so maco: ur name looks male to me
[07:37] <lifesaglitch> Spudz_: Not 100% accurate, but close enough I suppose
[07:37] <lifesaglitch> :D
[07:37] <maco> and japanese women's names end in -ko because ko means "child"
[07:37] <maco> yes, yes, most japanese women are named ____-child
[07:37]  * Spudz_ cant wait to go to japan
[07:37] <maco> like aiko = love-child (or "child who is loving to others")
[07:37] <maco> that's the japanese princess's name
[07:38] <lifesaglitch> If I was Japanese, my name would be... Nanashi
[07:38] <lifesaglitch> :D
[07:38] <maco> well, princess masako's daughter is princess aiko
[07:39] <Spudz_> going back to the CD issue, I have 10 files and a few folders. this is the entire contents of an XP cd.  If I burn these in the right order do I have a bootable CD??
[07:39] <maco> probably
[07:39] <maco> should work
[07:39] <lifesaglitch> maco: What about copy protection?
[07:39] <maco> well, assuming everything inside the files are arranged properly too...
[07:39] <Spudz_> how to figure out the right order?
[07:39] <maco> er, inside the folders
[07:40] <Spudz_> gosh what a mare.
[07:40] <maco> riiiight...you might be better off finding some other way of committing your act of piracy without my help :)
[07:40] <Spudz_> lifesaglitch: It's an open secret MS makes it very easy to copy their OSses because it wants people to use them
[07:40] <lifesaglitch> Spudz_: LOL
[07:41] <maco> hey Spudz_, lets take this to another channel now, k
[07:41] <Spudz_> maco: actually my windows was nontransferrable when I bought my laptop.  So I think it's still legit.
[07:41] <lifesaglitch> My workaround does too work!!
[07:41] <maco> we're not really supposed to talk about piracy
[07:41] <Spudz_> ok, sorry :)
[07:41] <maco> Spudz_: i believe that's nontransferable from the hardware
[07:41] <maco> maybe
[07:41] <maco> hrm
[07:41] <maco> IANAL
[07:42] <maco> but i know making one license go for two computers isn't legal, so...
[07:43] <lifesaglitch> Maco: Mackenzie... your comment doesn't make sense to me... my workaround works for me.
[07:44] <maco> lifesaglitch: i thought it worked the same as in Impress, remember?
[07:44] <maco> lifesaglitch: which just tells me i need to file a "this is inconsistent" bg
[07:45] <maco> *bug
[07:45] <Spudz_> bbl thx all
[07:45] <lifesaglitch> Maco: No... Writer only lets you adjust the vertical spacing which is saved in the style
[07:46] <lifesaglitch> that is, from the bullets menu
[07:46] <maco> right, so 1) writer and impress should behave the same 2) that behaviour should be *sane*
[07:46] <lifesaglitch> haha
[07:47] <lifesaglitch> Regardless, my workaround works.
[07:47] <maco> ok
[07:47] <lifesaglitch> Impress is weird
[07:47] <lifesaglitch> ooh... you are MM and I am WW
[07:47] <lifesaglitch> :D
[07:48] <lifesaglitch> What do you think it means?
[07:48] <maco> palindromes are for cool people, of course
[07:48] <lifesaglitch> Seems reasonable
[07:48] <lifesaglitch> Like bob...
[07:48] <lifesaglitch> I have never met a Bob I didn't like
[07:49] <maco> i learned to make a palindrome in context free grammar today for a 2-element language.  neat.
[07:49] <lifesaglitch> eh?
[07:49] <lifesaglitch> 2 element language?
[07:49] <maco> theory of computation stuff
[07:50] <lifesaglitch> What is a two element language?
[07:51] <maco> if the language is {0,1} and you want a palindrome, A--> 0A0 | 1A1 | ϵ
[07:51] <maco> ok this is totally off topic
[07:51] <maco> lets go to #ubuntu-offtopic
[07:53] <lifesaglitch> haha, not like there is really a topic going on
[07:53] <maco> eh theres supposed to be bug talk in ehre
[07:53] <lifesaglitch> technically yes...
[07:53] <lifesaglitch> alright, to off topic it is
[07:53] <maco> making another vm to play with OOo 3 on...
[07:55] <lifesaglitch> maco... are you in college?
[07:55] <maco> yes
[07:56] <lifesaglitch> Maco: no classes bright and early tomorrow?
[07:56] <maco> comp sci major. no classes before noon.
[07:56] <lifesaglitch> Maco: odd... I am a comp. sci major and I always seemed to be there at 8. I think I got cheated.
[10:14] <LimCore> hi, in 8.10 beta (amd64) after upgrade I got  Update infomation  there is a compined status menu for messaging status, exiting......
[10:14] <LimCore> when  I clikced update I got error  no logout button found
[10:14] <LimCore> should I report this?   bbl.
[10:20] <crevette> hello there
[10:20] <crevette> someone is able to confirm https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/282664
[10:52] <highvoltage> how does bug expiration work? is it set somewhere on the bug itself, or does launchpad handle it automatically?
[10:56] <Spudz_> PMT: you there?  any luck with the XP burn?
[10:58] <Spudz_> Someone's got back to me from Ubuntu Bugs, asking me to run nautilus-cd-burner from the command line.  Can someone help me with this?
[10:58] <Spudz_> it doesnt have a manpage, and the --help doesnt help
[10:58] <Spudz_> if I just run it it says 'no files selected'. If I run it with * or . those dont work
[11:52] <Spudz_> wakey wake, sleepy linux people
[11:54] <persia> Spudz_, You may find, as much as anything, that nobody else has a good answer to your question.  We tend to only answer when we know, or at least have a decent guess.
[11:55] <Spudz_> :) I guess it is a good thing that hte bugs channel is quiet!
[12:00] <persia> Spudz_, Well, maybe.  Quiet can mean everyone is busily chasing bugs, or it can mean nobody is around.  In this channel, it's usually the former.
[12:10] <Spudz_> hmm the Ubuntu Help -> Advanced Topics -> Writing your own programs is broken on my system.  I've filed it as a bug.
[12:54] <thekorn> dholbach: since the 5-a-day team is now restricted, do you plan to change the owner of lp:five-a-day, so members of 5-a-day can push to it?
[12:55] <dholbach> thekorn: good idea
[12:55] <thekorn> if not, I think the patches attached to bug 200432 and bug 279225 could be merged, IMO
[12:57] <thekorn> 200432, only if we really want to have a countdown, of course
[12:59] <dholbach> thekorn: done :)
[13:00] <bs66> anyone here knows what to add to /etc/apt/sources.list to get debug symbol files for 64-bit ubuntu intrepid?
[13:00] <thekorn> dholbach: super, danke
[13:08] <bs66> anyone here knows what to add to /etc/apt/sources.list to get debug symbol files for 64-bit ubuntu intrepid?
[13:09] <persia> bs66, No need to repeat yourself : people being slow is independent of how many times you ask.
[13:09] <persia> I think it's ddebs.ubuntu.com still.
[13:11] <bs66> persia: i tried that but they seems to be invalid. thanks anyway!
[13:11] <persia> bs66, Odd.  It worked for me last week.
[13:12] <bs66> with intrepid and 64-bit? hmm. i'll try again.
[13:15] <persia> bs66, Yep.
[13:16] <bs66> Failed to fetch http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/dists/intrepid-updates/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz  404 Not Found
[13:16] <bs66> F
[13:16] <bs66> :-(
[13:17] <bs66> i added:
[13:17] <bs66> deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com intrepid main universe
[13:17] <bs66> deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com intrepid-updates main universe
[13:17] <bs66> deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com intrepid-proposed main universe
[13:17] <bs66> deb http://ddebs.ubuntu.com intrepid-security main universe
[13:17] <bs66> to packages.conf
[13:18] <persia> bs66, Based on http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/dists/ I think you only need the first one.
[13:18] <bs66> i'll try that ...
[13:20] <bs66> got no errors with only the first line in. hope it will work now. thanks persia!
[14:51] <rrittenhouse> I was told there is a firefox extension that can help me with bug triaging. I think it included the canned responses so they could be easily inserted into LP
[14:52] <rrittenhouse> Does anyone know the name of this ext?
[14:53] <Hobbsee> greasemonkey, with some of bdmurray's extensions
[14:53]  * Hobbsee --> bed
[14:56] <rrittenhouse> Hobbsee: thx
[15:15] <dholbach> thekorn: did you want to merge the 5-a-day changes?
[15:15] <dholbach> thekorn: I can do it too if you like
[15:39] <dholbach> thekorn: good work!
[16:07] <mnemo> there was a new version of bzr-gtk released to intrepid today but I keep getting "W: Failed to fetch http://dk.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/b/bzr-gtk/bzr-gtk_0.95.0-1ubuntu5_all.deb
[16:07] <mnemo>   404 Not Found
[16:07] <mnemo> "
[16:07] <mnemo> when I click "Install updates"
[16:08] <charlie-tca> Maybe the update did not reach the mirror yet?
[16:09] <bddebian> Boo
[16:10] <mnemo> charlie-tca: true
[16:29] <tkamppeter> IMPORTANT: "cupsys" got renamed to "cups", please DO NOT assign any bug to "cupsys" any more! Assign them to "cups"!
[16:41] <persia> tkamppeter, Is this only in intrepid?
[16:43] <thekorn> dholbach: thanks for doing the merges, I hope this countdown thing is working correctly for everyone
[16:43] <dholbach> thekorn: I tried it, seems to work OK
[16:43] <dholbach> thekorn: would be nice though if it took a look at the data file and caculated how many were done in the last 24h ;-)
[16:44] <tkamppeter> persia, we want to get all bugs together, so everyone, please stop assigning to "cupsys", but assign to "cups".
[16:45] <thekorn> dholbach: well I thought about it, but I think we are not doing sientific statistics here, it's more symbolic
[16:45] <dholbach> ok fine :)
[16:46] <tkamppeter> Bugs which are already assigned to "cupsys" need to get passed over to "cups" by the Launchpad team to avoid mail bombs by the mail notifications.
[16:46] <thekorn> but if you like to have it, file a bug, it's easy
[16:46] <bdmurray> tkamppeter: I spoke with some launchpad bugs engineers and we have the bug movement scheduled for early November.
[16:46] <persia> tkamppeter, OK.  I'm just considering the SRU case.
[16:46] <dholbach> thekorn: great work :)
[16:46] <dholbach> thekorn: no no, I'll leave that to you
[16:46] <bdmurray> dholbach: what are you two talking about?
[16:46] <thekorn> bdmurray: hi
[16:46] <tkamppeter> bdmurray, thank you for the info.
[16:47] <dholbach> bdmurray: the last five-a-day upload
[16:48] <bdmurray> Okay, what is the countdown thing?  Is there something pretty to look at?
[16:49] <thekorn> yes some more blingbling, the 5-a-day-applet now coubnts down from 5 to 0
[16:50] <bdmurray> heh blingblign!
[16:53] <maco> does the 5 a day applet have any way to say "i'm doing something"
[16:53] <maco> ?
[16:54] <maco> im pretty sure it doesn't pick up on bugs that are dropped on it while previous bugs are still being added, so a way to know it's busy might be good
[16:57] <thekorn> maco: the tooltip of the applet shuod show something like "sending bug 123456"
[16:58] <maco> thekorn: yeah, i know it does that, but i mean a way that doesn't require sitting there with your mouse in one spot for 3 seconds
[16:59] <thekorn> maco: but apart from that dropping a bug while another action is in progress *should* work, if not it's a bug
[16:59] <maco> ok...i havent tried it in a while. i couldnt really figure the applet out and just went with the command line
[17:00] <maco> i know adding teams was in-general broken before, but the applet's version of --show-teams didn't seem to work...not sure tags worked either...so i just kind of gave up on trying to use the applet
[17:04] <thekorn> uhh, I was not aware of it, it always worked for me,
[17:06] <maco> hrm lemme try again then
[17:07] <maco> heyy ok whatever version is in hardy right now does have working teams.  in august, it just had a blank window with Apply and Cancel buttons
[17:09] <thekorn> ok, cool
[17:10] <maco> sorry for scaring you
[17:11] <thekorn> na, no problem
[18:09] <SimonTek> Hello
[18:11] <SimonTek> curious is there a bug with installing snmp on 8.04LTS?
[18:16] <bdmurray> SimonTek: you could check https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/net-snmp/+bugs
[18:16] <SimonTek> thanks
[18:58] <balthus> hi there, I encounter a kernel Oops on Intrepid when I connect a usb modem
[19:00] <bdmurray> balthus: with which kernel version?
[19:01] <balthus> 2.6.27-7
[19:01] <balthus> bdmurray: so the latest available
[19:01] <bdmurray> Have you reported the bug in Launchpad?
[19:01] <balthus> not yet
[19:02] <chrisccoulson> i see tdflanders is on the loose again. this is how he advises yo reproduce the consolekit crash: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/consolekit/+bug/269651/comments/32
[19:04] <balthus> bdmurray: would it be a good idea to try reproducing the issue on a second computer first?
[19:05] <balthus> bdmurray: i have here another laptop running 8.04, i am thinking installing the intrepid kernel on it and check if i can reproduce the bug
[19:07] <bdmurray> balthus: you might try a daily-live cd from http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[19:08] <balthus> bdmurray: yes this might be a indeed a better idea, tx, i am about to give it a try
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> ping mvo
[20:55] <chrisccoulson> bdmurray - do you think that bug 282932 and 283541 are the same? they both have several duplicates
[20:56] <chrisccoulson> in addition, i found another similar bug with duplicates - bug 282591
[20:56] <chrisccoulson> seems to be a bug triggered by a broken package list
[20:57] <chrisccoulson> and there are at least 3 other reports too
[20:58] <bdmurray> chrisccoulson: yes, the first two look look like duplicates to me
[20:58] <chrisccoulson> i thought i'd check before i grouped them all together
[20:58] <bdmurray> I'd probably use 283541 as the master since it has the most info
[21:00] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that makes sense. it's against the correct package too
[21:00] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[21:01] <bdmurray> well it has the package list file which is useful
[21:13] <bdmurray> I'm not sure how I feel about Ultimate Ubuntu.  Why is Ubuntu itself not Ultimate?
[21:15] <chrisccoulson> not sure! who looks after the ultimate edition?
[21:15] <bdmurray> I've no idea
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> this ultamatix software is responsible for no fewer than 14 bug reports in Launchpad!
[21:16] <bdmurray> Maybe the Utlimate Warrior?
[21:16] <chrisccoulson> lol
[22:20] <balthus> bdmurray: daily live cd burnt and tested
[22:21] <balthus> it was a good idea since it has confirmed the bug + revealed other issues on the other laptop
[22:21] <charlie-tca> boinc
[22:23] <balthus> (module agpgart causing a kernel Oops and sis video driver poorly handled by xorg (only 256 colours))
[22:25] <balthus> bdmurray: so I am filling a bug in launchpad following the recommendations found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies
[22:27] <bdmurray> balthus: great! lsusb would be good too since it is a usb device
[22:29] <balthus> yes i tried it, but it hangs with no output :(
[22:29] <bdmurray> did you say it worked with an earlier kernel?
[22:29] <balthus> yep
[22:29] <bdmurray> lsusb from that kernel will be fine the device ids don't change
[22:30] <balthus> yep good point
[22:30] <balthus> i'll provide it too
[22:51] <persia> chrisccoulson, the collection of software that calls itself "Ubuntu Ultimate Edition" is specifically unsupported, and based on technologies that are known to break the default configuration.
[22:52] <persia> The previous procedure to handle bugs for the precessessor scripts (e.g. Automatix) was to mark them invalid, and suggest the user contact the support team for the modification script.
[23:26] <chrisccoulson> persia - thanks for the clarification re ubuntu ultimate
[23:26] <bdmurray> I'm really surprised (pleasently( at how well under 50% New we are
[23:26] <crimsun> eh, we had better be after working my arse off
[23:27]  * bdmurray hugs crimsun
[23:27] <crimsun> too bad I have few resources, else I'd easily do 200/day
[23:28] <bdmurray> what resources?
[23:28] <crimsun> time, mainly
[23:28] <bdmurray> ah, can't help there
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> yes, i've definately struggled with time for the last couple of weeks too :(
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> new job!
[23:30] <crimsun> chrisccoulson: hear, hear!
[23:35] <chrisccoulson> i'm having great difficulty trying to get the reporter of bug 277709 to provide a good backtrace
[23:36] <chrisccoulson> it's missing debug symbols, but i swear i've asked them to install all appropriate dbg packages
[23:37] <balthus> bdmurray: bug created (#284664)
[23:37] <persia> chrisccoulson, Have you verified the version of the debug symbols from ddebs.ubuntu.com?
[23:38] <chrisccoulson> i'll have another check, but i asked them to recreate the crash after they downloaded the dbg symbols, just in case the versions didn't tie up with the coredump
[23:38] <chrisccoulson> it seems to be libgl1-mesa-dri-dbgsym that they are missing
[23:39] <persia> Right.  There's a rare, but possible, situation where the debug symbols don't get updated in the ddebs repo.  The other option, if they are running hardy or intrepid, is to get them to use apport to report the crash.
[23:40] <persia> (yes, this generates a new bug, but it can be used as a master, as apport can likely get a good trace)
[23:40] <chrisccoulson> apport should catch xorg crashes if notrapsignals is enabled in their xorg.conf shouldn't it?
[23:41] <persia> Not if apport isn't turned on.
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> i'll ask them to turn it on and submit a new report
[23:41] <chrisccoulson> it'll be interesting to see what the retracer makes of it
[23:41] <persia> Easier than chasing debug symbols packages :)
[23:49] <chrisccoulson> done. thanks persia:)