[13:00] <lool> #startmeeting
[13:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is lool.
[13:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[13:00] <lool> hey folks
[13:00] <ogra> moop
[13:00] <lool> visiting last weeks action items
[13:00] <lool> [topic] ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi
[13:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi
[13:00] <lool> Oh wait
[13:00] <lool> [topic] roll call
[13:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  roll call
[13:01] <ogra> well, forwarded to amitk who currently dies under load
[13:01] <persia> heh
[13:02] <lool> So who do we ahve?
[13:02] <lool> StevenK: hey
[13:02]  * StevenK waves
[13:02] <lool> davidm: you here?
[13:02] <lool> [topic] ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi
[13:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi
[13:02] <lool> 14:01 < ogra> well, forwarded to amitk who currently dies under load
[13:02] <lool> ogra: What's the bug again?
[13:02] <lool> LP #
[13:03] <ogra> not sure we have one
[13:03] <lool> We need one
[13:03]  * ogra quickly files one 
[13:03] <lool> Please milestone for intrepid
[13:03] <lool> amitk: hey
[13:03] <lool> amitk: we were discussing ath5k/madwifi on q1u
[13:03] <lool> amitk: Is any lp # open for this?
[13:04] <amitk> lool: no lp # AFAIK. I am short of time on debugging this.
[13:04] <lool> amitk: Should we look at assigning someone to the bug, perhaps someone not busy like you are with lpia/iwl3945, to make sure we get it for intrepid?
[13:04] <lool> amitk: At this point, I'd say we should give up debug of ath5k and just use madwifi for the q1u's pci id
[13:04] <davidm> lool i am here
[13:05] <lool> hey davidm
[13:05] <amitk> lool: Just file a bug. Tim is going to do a wireless backport very soon that should fix some of ath5k's problems.
[13:05] <lool> amitk: ogra is filing one as we speak
[13:05] <amitk> that is why I stopped looking at it. ath5k in 2.6.27 has known deficiencies.
[13:06] <lool> amitk: I also got some aufs issues when fs is full with the new aufs, but didn't reproduce reliably
[13:06] <lool> but I'm only mentionning this to try to make your brain explode
[13:06] <lool> will file a bug if I reproduce
[13:06] <ogra> bug 284354
[13:07] <lool> thanks ogra
[13:07] <amitk> lool: very few fs handle getting full reliably :)
[13:07] <amitk> lool: if you try too hard, my brain will go into shutdown
[13:07] <lool> amitk: Note that I filed the fs, then freed some space, and it remained broken
[13:07] <lool> amitk: ah, thermal protection
[13:08] <lool> ogra: + also affects linux-lpia
[13:08]  * ogra adds
[13:08] <lool> (added)
[13:09] <ogra> meh
[13:09] <ogra> LP moans
[13:09] <lool> [topic] persia to make sure lpia/mid installs with trunk versions of seeds and ubiquty
[13:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia to make sure lpia/mid installs with trunk versions of seeds and ubiquty
[13:09] <lool> persia: so these were uploaded as well I think
[13:09] <amitk> lool: ok. that should probably be an upstream aufs bug.
[13:09] <persia> Yeah, that's been working since last Thursday.
[13:09] <persia> Well, there were some broken days, but not mid-specific.
[13:09] <lool> persia: I had reports of things going wrong on CB with daily MID of a couple of days ago, but couldn't reproduce these particular issues
[13:10] <lool> I think it was because of prior partitioning confusing partman
[13:10] <persia> lool, In a way that things didn't go wrong on i386?
[13:10] <lool> I personally crashed due to kernel lockup no high IDE load
[13:10] <lool> s/no/on
[13:10] <persia> Yeah, there's little ubiquity or debian-installer components can do about that.
[13:10] <lool> And I heard from StevenK that he installed fine at the beginning of the week
[13:11] <StevenK> That was on my Jax
[13:11] <lool> Good
[13:11] <lool> So, that's done, thanks; moving on
[13:11] <lool> (but please continue testing and filing bugs as appropriate)
[13:11] <lool> [topic] StevenK to make sure lpia-lrm reaches archive and is installable
[13:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to make sure lpia-lrm reaches archive and is installable
[13:11] <StevenK> lool: I tested the install on my Q1 before the Jax, that worked even better
[13:11] <lool> StevenK: great
[13:12] <StevenK> lool: That was done before the meeting finished, I think
[13:12] <StevenK> It's moot, anyway, we're waiting for -4
[13:12] <persia> Plus linux-firmware integration.
[13:12] <lool> Ok; does that make it in the dailies?
[13:12] <StevenK> Yes
[13:13] <StevenK> livecd-rootfs install linux-lpia
[13:13] <lool> amitk: What's eta for getting latest linux and lrm bits in the lpia flavors?
[13:13] <StevenK> s/all/alls/
[13:14] <amitk> lool: i suspect after the critical bug list is squashed. So not this week.
[13:14] <lool> amitk: aha
[13:14] <lool> [topic] amitk - any kernel issues?
[13:14] <StevenK> That worries me a little
[13:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  amitk - any kernel issues?
[13:14] <lool> amitk: (that's from agenda)
[13:14] <lool> amitk: So anything else kernel related for intrepid?
[13:15] <amitk> meta needs to be changed to add linux-firmware
[13:15] <lool> StevenK: It does worry me as well; that said, we have a general issue about merging linux/linux-lpia
[13:15] <lool> Keeping the trees in sync will remain on the shoulders of the ubuntu kernel team whether we get new linux-lpia/lrm-lpia or not
[13:15] <lool> What matters is that we release with working images
[13:16] <lool> amitk: lpia-meta?
[13:16] <amitk> there is one major change in the tree right now - uvesafb -> vesafb
[13:16] <amitk> lool: yes
[13:16] <lool> amitk: If this is intrepid-critical, pelase file a bug with milestone
[13:17] <lool> amitk: severity >= high, milestone 8.10, nominate for intrepid
[13:17] <persia> There were *lots* of uvesafb issues.  Moving to vesafb would be nice.
[13:17] <lool> I can say that the current dailies boot on CB, jax10, and Q1U; need to retest kvm
[13:18] <amitk> lool: BenC will look at it (or already has). I will just rebase lpia tree on top of it.
[13:18] <lool> I have no wifi on jax10 and q1u
[13:18] <StevenK> That's odd.
[13:18] <StevenK> Wifi works on my Q!
[13:18] <lool> amitk: Unless this happens as we speak, I'd be more confortable with a milestoned bug
[13:18] <StevenK> Er, Q1
[13:18] <amitk> for now, ath5k should be blacklisted (unfortunately) until backports is available
[13:19] <ogra> amitk, generally ?
[13:19] <StevenK> I've finally discovered which driver the Jax needs
[13:19] <amitk> ogra: for lpia
[13:19] <ogra> ah
[13:19] <persia> StevenK, Something includable short-term, or a release note?
[13:19] <StevenK> The driver is included
[13:19] <StevenK> It's firmware for it that's problematic
[13:20] <amitk> StevenK: yeah.. jax needs sd8686 firmware or libertas or some combination thereof
[13:20] <cgregan> Is there anything I can help with when it comes to binaries for Jax?
[13:20] <StevenK> libertas_sdio is in the kernel as a module
[13:20] <lool> [action] amitk to make sure we get new meta{,-lpia} pulling linux-firmware or file a milestoned bug for intrepid release
[13:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  amitk to make sure we get new meta{,-lpia} pulling linux-firmware or file a milestoned bug for intrepid release
[13:20] <amitk> the problem is that we can't redistribute sd8686 firmware.
[13:21] <lool> I'd prefer the bug to make release team aware of this action being needed, but if what matters is that it gets done :)
[13:22] <lool> pff gnome-keyring has locked my screen with two modal dialogs
[13:22] <ogra> fun
[13:22] <lool> [topic] persia to write spec for jaunty on providing iso images or vm support or how to write mobile images for end users
[13:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia to write spec for jaunty on providing iso images or vm support or how to write mobile images for end users
[13:22] <persia> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-iso-images is registered, but not drafted
[13:23] <lool> thanks
[13:23] <lool> Ok; moving to current items
[13:23] <lool> basically status reports and blockers for intrepid
[13:23] <lool> [topic] amitk's status
[13:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  amitk's status
[13:23] <lool> amitk: Hey anything else you'd like to mention on intrepid or blocking your work?
[13:24] <lool> amitk: Perhaps you need a delivery of coffee to stay up all nights?  ;-)
[13:24]  * lool think we need more amitks
[13:25] <ian_brasil> in finland day is night anyway
[13:25] <StevenK> I'm happy to provide heavy metal to keep amitk and his neighbours awake
[13:25] <lool> StevenK: Correction, wifi works on Q1U now; was the password not being recorded properly
[13:25] <lool> ian_brasil: and night is night sadly
[13:25] <lool> Ok, I guess amitk is actually busy doing stuff
[13:26] <lool> [topic] StevenK's status
[13:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK's status
[13:26] <lool> StevenK: wazzup
[13:26] <StevenK> I have been distracted by my Jax
[13:26] <StevenK> My plan for tomorrow is to fix Contacts and then look at release bugs
[13:27] <lool> StevenK: If you poke contacts, would be nice to investigate why dates doesn't have icons; installing hildonèicons doesn't help
[13:27] <lool> I suspect it's a theme path issue in some env var or some such
[13:27] <StevenK> lool: File a bug and assign it to me? :-)
[13:27] <lool> StevenK: anything blocking your work?  any intrepid critical bugs you'd like to mention?
[13:29] <lool> StevenK: (bug filed and assigned)
[13:29] <StevenK> lool: Nope
[13:29] <lool> [topic] persia's status
[13:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  persia's status
[13:30] <lool> persia: w0àt
[13:30] <lool> *w00t even
[13:30] <persia> Well, the installer works.  I still need someone to push lp:~persia/casper/trunk, but so far nobody seems very interested.
[13:30] <lool> I am!
[13:30] <lool> I'm sure StevenK is as well
[13:30]  * persia is happy about renewed enthusiasm
[13:31] <lool> We're in freeze though, blah will need approval
[13:31] <persia> I still have no networking on my D4 (wired, USB wired, USB wireless, built-in SDIO wireless), so my testing is a bit cramped.
[13:31] <lool> persia: Can you poke me tomorrow on merigng this branch and uploading?
[13:31] <persia> Other than that, things are good.
[13:31] <lool> I'd like to continue chasing xorg stuff today
[13:31] <persia> lool, Sure, happy to poke you about it :)
[13:32] <lool> persia: Weird that you don't get usb wired
[13:32] <amitk> umm... sorry. was filing bug for linux-lpia-meta
[13:32] <lool> amitk: thanks
[13:32] <amitk> nothing new to report here
[13:32] <persia> Yeah.  The adapter shows up, but I can't get it to actually carry a signal : it always fails DHCP.
[13:32] <lool> amitk: Ok, thanks for confirming
[13:32] <StevenK> How to get the touchscreen going on the Jax would be good, too
[13:33] <lool> persia: Here NM picks it up after the module gets autoloaded when I plug it, and manages to connect just fine
[13:33] <lool> StevenK: Can you spend time with ogra to chase this?
[13:33] <lool> ogra has good touchscreen overview and is in contact with upstream but has no jax10
[13:33] <ogra> right
[13:33] <cgregan> I sent the package list to lool. I'm not sure of the licensing on the touch driver though
[13:33] <davidm> SeteenK unlikely
[13:34] <lool> davidm: Perhaps it's close enough to an existing touchscreen that we can get it to work with some poking
[13:34] <davidm> license  does not work currently
[13:34] <lool> cgregan: We'd like to get a free driver for it working
[13:34] <davidm> we need to be careful since OEM team had customer version
[13:34] <cgregan> lool: Hmmm....I will ask around to see if anything ever came close to working
[13:35] <lool> cgregan: Using the proprietary version is only possible for people having access to it   :-/  it's ok for Canonical employees as a fallback though
[13:35] <lool> cgregan: If you have any info, that's great; poke ogra and StevenK if you do :)
[13:35] <ogra> davidm, the question is if we can get the kernel side to work with any free driver, the Xorg side should be possible to cover as long as input events come in
[13:35] <davidm> true
[13:35] <lool> [topic] lool's status
[13:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  lool's status
[13:35] <persia> Even just clear instructions would be good.  Many users have reported that they can download incompatible drivers from their original SW vendors.
[13:36] <lool> poked xorg / psb stuff this week; helped OEM and desktop teams as well
[13:36] <lool> nothing particular to report; I'm chasing Xvfb not coming up on some arches
[13:36] <lool> Which breaks builds using xvfb-run
[13:37] <lool> But I don't have the hardware, and qemu-system-sparc and -ppc don't work as much as I'd like
[13:37] <lool> I have other small universe bugs to tackle before release as well
[13:37] <lool> [topic] ogra's status
[13:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  ogra's status
[13:37] <lool> ogra: What's up
[13:37] <ogra> * evtouch
[13:37] <ogra>   * added a bunch of new .fdi files
[13:37] <ogra>   * supports six device classes now
[13:37] <ogra>   * changed install location and sequence numbers of .fdi files
[13:37] <ogra>   * open issues: bug 222164
[13:37] <ogra> * lots of ltsp cleanup
[13:37] <ogra>   * worked out fixes to the new logout model of gnome desktop
[13:37] <ogra>   * merged in all upstram changes into intrepid packages
[13:37] <ogra>   * hunted down several ldm UI bugs
[13:37] <ogra>   * fixed various regressions vs hardy
[13:37] <ogra> * adjusted ubuntu-mobile-default-settings to new artwork naming scheme
[13:37] <ogra> * tried to get linux-lpia over its abi check bound FTBFS
[13:37] <ogra> * worked on various distro related release bugs
[13:37] <ogra> * fixed pm-utils to ignore blacklisted modules on resume
[13:38] <ogra> * hal-info Q1 keyboard mapping merged upstream
[13:38] <ogra> * general ubuntu-mobile image tests
[13:38] <ogra> * bluetooth 4.x tests (3 out of four devices work now here)
[13:38] <ogra> * various Xorg related tasks (bug hunting etc)
[13:38] <ogra> :)
[13:38] <lool> cool; could you copy that to email as well?   :)
[13:38] <lool> thanks for the details
[13:38] <ogra> lool, already sent :)
[13:39] <lool> thanks
[13:39] <lool> [topic] cgregan's status
[13:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  cgregan's status
[13:39] <lool> cgregan: if you like :)
[13:39] <cgregan> :-)
[13:39] <cgregan> The biggest item is hiring
[13:40] <cgregan> I have a new tester starting in Lexington so I should have more time for helping out here
[13:40] <lool> Candidates for QA jobs at Canonical, poke cgregan!
[13:40] <lool> cgregan: Ok; anything intrepid critical or any blocker you'd like to mention?
[13:40] <cgregan> No intrepid related issues yet
[13:41] <cgregan> we are still based on Hardy in OEM
[13:41] <lool> Okay
[13:41] <lool> [topic] davidm's status
[13:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  davidm's status
[13:41] <lool> davidm: w00t
[13:41] <lool> davidm: We would like lots of details, very long phrases to type with your tiny kbd muaahahah
[13:41] <davidm> working on 945 bug
[13:42] <davidm> reviewed resumes for qa position
[13:42] <davidm> review SoW issues
[13:43] <davidm> and now no lappy.......
[13:43] <davidm> off tomorrow swap day
[13:43] <davidm> done
[13:43] <lool> thanks
[13:43] <lool> Any other business for today?
[13:43]  * lool pokes around
[13:44]  * ogra feels tickled
[13:44] <lool> It's soon my birthday, you're welcome to send me gifts!
[13:44] <davidm> just to focus on Intrep bugs please Jax and others can wait
[13:44] <lool> And don't forget thanksgiving and xmas
[13:44] <ogra> haha
[13:44] <lool> Ok; thanks everybody
[13:44]  * cgregan heads to amazon.fr
[13:44] <lool> #endmeeting
[13:44] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:44.
[13:45] <lool> cgregan: heh just kidding!  :)
[13:45] <cgregan> :-)
[13:45] <lool> I was lying, my birthday was almost a year ago
[13:45] <cgregan> hehe....mine too!
[13:46] <lool> haha the desktop folks didn't have a chance to press our meeting this week
[13:58] <pitti> ah, my interweb tube works again, right on time
[14:00] <seb128> hey pitti
[14:03] <Keybuk> my internets appear to be broken too
[14:03] <Keybuk> wiki just took ages to load up
[14:03] <Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-16
[14:04]  * mvo waves
[14:04] <Keybuk> ah, Ken
[14:04] <Keybuk> nice of you to join us ;)
[14:04] <pitti> it didn't break at home, somewhere in the middle
[14:04] <kwwii> sorry, kid was screaming
[14:04] <Keybuk> no outstanding actions from last meeting
[14:04] <Keybuk> so let's jump straight into Ken's agenda items
[14:04] <Keybuk> kwwii: Status of splitting of gnome-themes package
[14:05] <kwwii> Keybuk: sooo...I was supposed to check up on this and report back
[14:05] <kwwii> we need to figure out how to get that done :-)
[14:05] <ogra> will shipit send out rust converter with the CDs for the desktop ? :)
[14:06] <kwwii> seb128, mvo: any news?
[14:06] <kwwii> and/or plans?
[14:06] <mvo> not from my side
[14:06] <Keybuk> honestly
[14:06] <Keybuk> today is too late for making changes like this
[14:06] <tedg> kwwii: Are you talking about the prompt for upgrade?
[14:06] <seb128> not from mine either, but as said the changes are easy to do if required
[14:06] <kwwii> tedg: nope, I am talking about the gnome-theme package now
[14:07] <pitti> so, that's about shipping some themes in a new package, poke it through unpproved and NEW, and change the seeds to only pull in gnome-themes-thosewelove?
[14:07]  * Keybuk puts the brakes on
[14:07] <Keybuk> guys
[14:07] <Keybuk> we are in release freeze
[14:07] <seb128> the discussion on listed showed no strong reason to do that this cycle though if we have no other theme to list instead, especially than some users still run ugly themes because they are not so slow
[14:07] <Keybuk> splitting packages and changing seeds is something that should have been done weeks ago
[14:07] <Hobbsee> Keybuk++;
[14:07] <kwwii> the point is to remove everything but the high-contrast themes (putting the others in another package for upgraders)
[14:07] <persia> Can that not be done?  It's non-ideal for other flavours
[14:08] <kwwii> Keybuk: well, sabdfl wanted this done and we did talk about it weeks ago
[14:08] <persia> (because of the package split, and tracking that)
[14:08] <seb128> persia: other flavor can still depends on gnome-theme if required
[14:08] <Keybuk> kwwii: sabdfl has not talked to me about it
[14:08] <Keybuk> so I do not consider it a priority
[14:08] <kwwii> Keybuk: erm, it was discussed by quite a few people
[14:08] <seb128> honestly the change is quick to do, the hard part is to decide on the naming
[14:08] <Keybuk> kwwii: yes, I'm aware of the discussion
[14:08] <Keybuk> the point is that the discussion took too long
[14:08] <Keybuk> it's now too late to do for this release
[14:09] <pitti> Seb should handle 2.24.1, so I'm ok with doing the split; shouldn't take more than two hours
[14:09] <Keybuk> you may continue the discussion and decide what to do for jaunty
[14:09] <kwwii> Keybuk: ok, so I can tell mark that you veto'd it?
[14:09] <Keybuk> yes
[14:09] <Keybuk> the fact that today is release freeze veto'd it
[14:09] <kwwii> ok, that wraps up that then
[14:10] <kwwii> I honestly do not think he will be happy with that but I can live with that as well
[14:10] <kwwii> the other agenda items I brought up have been taken care of already
[14:10] <ogra> he still has his super cow powers to force such a change
[14:10] <kwwii> I get to tell mark "no" three times
[14:10] <seb128> let's not create issues over that, the changes are easy if he really wants that
[14:11] <kwwii> ogra: this change should have been done weeks ago
[14:11] <ogra> kwwii, i know
[14:11] <Keybuk> seb128: if they are easy, why have they not yet been done?
[14:11] <ogra> but the d in sabdfl gives him the extra power if he feels strongly for it
[14:11] <persia> If they are changed, please verify that it works with Ubuntu Studio, Ubuntu Mobile, and Edubuntu before uploading.
[14:11] <seb128> Keybuk: because there was no real point to do this change so we started a discussion on why on the list
[14:12] <Hobbsee> seb128: hasn't it been discussed in the past 2 meetings?
[14:12] <Keybuk> I'm strongly concerned that there are hidden repercussions here
[14:12] <Hobbsee> persia: exactly.
[14:12] <Keybuk> and after release freeze is not the time to find them o ut
[14:13] <seb128> persia: gnome-themes would still install everything so that should be no issue
[14:13] <Keybuk> we will defer this to jaunty unless I say otherwise
[14:13] <seb128> ok
[14:13] <Keybuk> if Mark talks to you, refer him to me
[14:13] <Keybuk> he's supposed to include me in the loop if he has priority requests
[14:13] <kwwii> Keybuk: you'll be in cc
[14:13] <kwwii> Keybuk: then you should be in on our weekly calls
[14:13] <persia> seb128, I'm concerned about Replaces: but OK.
[14:13] <Keybuk> so I am reading this as a non-priority request
[14:14] <Keybuk> (not all of Mark's requests are priority, many are would-be-nice :p)
[14:14] <seb128> persia: those are in gnome-themes, that's just a binary split so it impacts on nothing else
[14:14] <Keybuk> ok, moving on
[14:14] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
[14:15] <Keybuk> argh
[14:15] <Keybuk> that has totally crashed my browser
[14:15] <seb128> still using webkit? ;-)
[14:15] <seb128> pitti has been rocking on the sponsoring list
[14:15] <Keybuk> seb128: no
[14:15] <Keybuk> none of these are High or Critical or Release Targeted
[14:15] <Keybuk> so they are all for jaunty now
[14:16] <Keybuk> seb128: crashing seems to be related to flash :-/
[14:16] <seb128> Keybuk: you just downgraded your libtool bug? ;-)
[14:17] <Keybuk> seb128: yes, I'm so not getting a chance before intrepid
[14:17] <Keybuk> err, I've lost the agenda because the wiki has crashed :p
[14:17] <Keybuk> pitti: Release Status ? :)
[14:18] <Keybuk> oh, his network connection died
[14:18] <Keybuk> any other business today? :)
[14:18] <kwwii> one thing
[14:18]  * Riddell wibbles about language packs
[14:19] <Hobbsee> Release status:  We're in the RC freeze, all main uploads need approval by the Ubuntu release team.  Universe is as normal.
[14:19] <kwwii> seb128: did you see the human icon theme and human theme package update I sent you per email? will those make it in?
[14:20] <tedg> One small thing, I don't think it should be fixed, but at least well known.  Turns out that GPM isn't using PolicyKit.  I didn't notice until last night.  Probably not important for Intrepid, but may cause other issues if people expect it to respond to PolicyKit messages.
[14:20] <seb128> kwwii: been lagging behind on mail, would be nice if you could open sponsoring request bugs so anybody can sponsor those and it makes easier to keep track, will do if pitti didn't look at those yet
[14:21] <seb128> tedg: what sort of messages exactly?
[14:21] <kwwii> seb128: ok, I can do that...is there more info on what I should put in that bug?
[14:21] <tedg> seb128: I believe, and I haven't looked completely, it would be something like if HAL required an authentication dialog for shutdown.  GPM doesn't know how to show that.
[14:23] <seb128> kwwii: don't bother for this one, will talk to pitti when he's back
[14:23] <seb128> tedg: ah, ok
[14:23] <kwwii> ok, from now on I will make sure to file a sponsoring bug for everything
[14:24]  * ogra guesses PK only is relevant with the new GDM for the power manager
[14:24] <kwwii> and bug you guys as a last resort :-)
[14:24] <Keybuk> great
[14:24] <Keybuk> one last item for today
[14:24] <Keybuk> farewell to mvo
[14:24] <seb128> kwwii: thank
[14:25] <mvo> I will just be in the office next door
[14:25] <seb128> mvo: you can come drink tea at the desktop team office whenever you want ;-)
[14:25] <kwwii> mvo: we'll be screaming at you through the walls
[14:26] <Keybuk> next week, we'll have four new team members
[14:27] <Keybuk> asac, ArneGoetje, bryce and calc
[14:27] <Keybuk> since this gives us a bit of a new timezone spread, we may want to adjust the meeting day and time
[14:27]  * asac waves
[14:27]  * ArneGoetje waves too
[14:28] <kwwii> Keybuk: any news when I will be leaving the team?
[14:28]  * ArneGoetje is happy with the current meeting time
[14:28]  * tedg guessing bryce is not :)
[14:28] <Keybuk> kwwii: I have heard that Julian will be joining us on November 3rd - so you and mpt will change teams on or after that date
[14:29] <Riddell> julian?
[14:29] <Keybuk> Riddell: visual designer, who will report into the marketing team
[14:30]  * Keybuk wants an RSS feed for the org chart ;)
[14:31] <Keybuk> other than that, unless there's any other business, let's finish early for the day
[14:31] <Keybuk> well done everybody on the release so far
[14:31] <Keybuk> we have the lowest RC bug count of all the teams ;)
[14:31] <Keybuk> (unless you count community <g>)
[14:31] <mvo> rock!
[14:31]  * tedg doesn't have a RSS feed reader that will refresh on units less than an hour :(
[14:32] <Hobbsee> Keybuk: I can fix that, if you'd like...
[14:32] <Hobbsee> :)
[14:33] <Keybuk> ok, adjourned
[14:33] <Keybuk> thanks all
[14:33] <seb128> thanks Keybuk
[14:33] <mvo> thanks
[15:06] <Koon> Who's here for the java meeting ?
[15:07]  * persia is here
[15:09] <persia> OK.  Nobody else.
[15:09] <persia> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
[15:11] <persia> Well, the page isn't coming up for me now.
[15:11] <persia> Oh, there it is :)  Only item is Roadmap review.
[15:11] <persia> robilad is absent
[15:11] <persia> slytherin is absent
[15:12] <persia> Koon, Anything to report about maven?  My memory is that we're waiting for Jaunty open.
[15:12] <Koon> persia: yes -- also I'm still chasing openweek dates
[15:12] <Koon> to see if I could do a packaging session then
[15:13] <persia> No feedback from that team?
[15:13] <persia> dholbach: any guess on when openweek will be scheduled?
[15:13] <dholbach> persia: no, I'm sorry - not yet, I'll talk to Jono about it our call later on and notify Koon
[15:14] <persia> dholbach, Thanks.
[15:14] <persia> OK.  Anyone have anything else for the Java meeting?
[15:16] <Koon> just a note
[15:16] <persia> Sure.
[15:17] <Koon> we start being bitten by "default-jdk building at java6-level bytecode by default" bugs
[15:17] <Koon> see bug 283875 for instance
[15:17] <persia> There was some talk about that in the foundations meeting.  My understanding is that there will be a release note telling people not to use older JREs.
[15:18] <persia> doko, Am I remembering correctly, or do you have something else planned?
[15:18] <Koon> doko told me to fix tomcat 5.5 and libs to support lesser level
[15:18] <doko> yes, there will be a release note, but if you do want to fix that, just rebuild the package with the minimum required -source and -target options
[15:19] <persia> OK.  So we should target "important" packages for an update, and expect the rest to be covered by the release note?
[15:19] <doko> I do understand that people still use 1.5
[15:19] <doko> sure, that would make sense, but imo, it's not first priority
[15:19] <Koon> yes, my fear here is people upgrading a sun-jdk5+tomcat5.5 package and having it broken in intrepid
[15:20] <Koon> anyway, if the release notes encourage usage of java 6 that should cover us
[15:20] <Koon> but i'll still try to target 1.5 for tomcat 5.5 :)
[15:21] <persia> Koon, Makes sense.  I think it depends on the definition of "important", and which use cases we want to support.
[15:21] <persia> Personally, with hardy being LTS, I'm mostly happy telling people to upgrade.
[15:25] <Koon> anyway, that was just a remark, something to keep in mind when converting those gcj-built libs to default-jdk.
[15:27] <persia> OK.  Well, thanks for starting the meeting :)  Let's do it again next week.
[16:19] <huats> nxvl: the meeting won't be long
[16:19] <huats> but I really think it is a good think to have one (from time to time)
[16:19] <huats> nxvl: how are you bt w?
[16:20] <nxvl> good
[16:20] <huats> great :)
[16:20] <nxvl> i was just making some coordinations
[16:20] <huats> no pb
[16:20] <nxvl> and really busy at work
[16:21] <nxvl> working for free software isn't as great as it looks, is still funny and a better work than other, but not as great as it appears
[16:21] <nxvl> really busy time
[16:21] <nxvl> times*
[16:21] <huats> I understand
[16:21] <nxvl> i've a lot of fun at it, but you need to run against the clock
[16:22] <nxvl> ok, we are all set
[16:23] <huats> great
[16:23] <porthose> Im here
[16:23] <huats> here is the long waiting agenda :)
[16:23] <huats> 0. Actions from last meeting
[16:23] <huats> 1. Status of new requests
[16:23] <huats> 2. Status of mentors
[16:23] <huats> 3. Mailing list
[16:23] <huats> 4. Any other topic ?
[16:23] <huats> :)
[16:23] <huats> is it ok for everyone ?
[16:24] <porthose> yep
[16:24] <huats> ok
[16:25] <nxvl> \o/
[16:25] <huats> let's start
[16:25] <huats> 0. Actions from last meeting
[16:26] <huats> porthose: you have matched the open applications you were asked to
[16:26] <huats> I have contacted slomo and jcorbier : slomo asked to be removed for some time of the list of available mentors.
[16:26] <huats> But if needed we can ask him again when we lack mentors.
[16:26] <huats> jcorbier told me he has withdrew all his involvments in Ubuntu teams a while back, mentoring included.
[16:27] <huats> and the other remaining points were for norsetto
[16:27] <huats> (and he did them before he left the team...)
[16:28] <huats> nxvl: or porthose : anything you wanted to say here ?
[16:28] <nxvl> not from me
[16:29] <porthose> huats: yes I have matched all open application that I was asked to
[16:29] <porthose> and a few more :)
[16:30] <huats> sure :)
[16:30] <huats> porthose: but in the pending actions they were 2 that you had to match (that is why I mention that ones)
[16:30] <huats> :)
[16:30] <huats> ok
[16:30] <huats> so next point
[16:31] <huats> 1. Status of new requests
[16:31] <huats> it is simple : None is curently pending ! We rock :)
[16:31] <huats> :)
[16:31] <nxvl> \o/
[16:31] <persia> Congratulations!
[16:31] <porthose> :)
[16:31] <huats> thanks persia :)
[16:31]  * nxvl dances
[16:31]  * persia never remembers the mentoring queue being empty since it started
[16:32] <huats> persia: that is the advantage of being a team
[16:32] <huats> :)
[16:32] <huats> i think we can advance to the next point : 2. Status of mentors
[16:33] <huats> We will soon face a lack of mentors for the junior program
[16:33] <nxvl> persia: yes, we keep it empty regulary
[16:33] <huats> I will send an email to all mentors asking them the status of their mentee, and telling them to think if none of them is able to step to the senior program, this might free some slots...
[16:33] <nxvl> and give more work to the motu council \o/
[16:34] <nxvl> :P
[16:34] <huats> (I think it might be interesting to remind mentors that the junior program is just one step, since it is the beginning of the process)
[16:34] <huats> nxvl: exactly
[16:34] <RoAkSoAx> can i ask if there are any free mentors for the Junior Program?? (Since I'm thinking about re taking my mentoring program)
[16:34] <RoAkSoAx> or if my mentor (vorian) still free
[16:34] <nxvl> i think we should hold fire on that for 2 weeks
[16:34] <huats> nxvl: sure....
[16:34] <nxvl> motu council is really busy this days
[16:35] <huats> it was so clear that I haven't mentionned that
[16:35] <huats> :)à
[16:35] <nxvl> and applications are taking an eternity to be processed
[16:35] <huats> RoAkSoAx: vorian still have an empty slot
[16:36] <huats> I think you can contact him and ask him if he agrees to continue your mentoring :)
[16:36] <huats> RoAkSoAx: the thing is that now there are 2 steps
[16:36] <huats> so may be we should discuss that later :)
[16:36] <huats> ok ?
[16:36] <RoAkSoAx> ok :)
[16:37] <nxvl> huats: just ignore RoAkSoAx, he doesn't deserve it
[16:37] <nxvl> :P
[16:37]  * nxvl HUGS RoAkSoAx 
[16:37]  * RoAkSoAx slaps nxvl :P xD
[16:37] <nxvl> :D
[16:37] <huats> I will contact each new u-u-c or motu to ask them if they want to mentor some people. (I'll search all the guys since the last meeting).
[16:38] <huats> in order to avoid that shortage of available mentors
[16:38] <huats> finally
[16:38]  * porthose considers applying for uuc
[16:38] <huats> ask your mentor :)
[16:38] <huats> ;)
[16:39] <huats> next point to be treated is the mailing list
[16:39] <huats> :(
[16:39] <nxvl> i can support you application
[16:39] <huats> (porthose:  I will support it too)
[16:39] <nxvl> still no news on that topic?
[16:40] <huats> yes and NO !
[16:40] <porthose> nxvl huats thanks
[16:40] <huats> the mailling list has been approved
[16:40] <huats> which is great
[16:40] <huats> the thing is that the need to create it
[16:40] <huats> I went to ask and find some on IRC to try to fasten stuff
[16:40] <huats> but no luck so far...
[16:41] <huats> but it is just a matter of time
[16:41] <huats> and so far the mailing list I am hosting is working :)
[16:41] <huats> so let's cross fingers :)
[16:41] <porthose> who needs to be contacted ?
[16:41] <huats> some canonicals sysadmin
[16:41] <nxvl> IS can be really slow sometimes
[16:42] <huats> i know...
[16:42] <huats> so
[16:42] <huats> any other topic you want to be dealed ?
[16:43] <porthose> none that I can think of :)
[16:43] <nxvl> yes
[16:43] <nxvl> i've find some problems lately with the mentoring program
[16:43] <nxvl> since we have new contributors jumping in, but never showing, or just contributing 2 days
[16:44] <nxvl> and then they are gone
[16:44] <huats> i know that
[16:44] <huats> I have noticed that
[16:44] <huats> I think it is the mentor responsability to deal with that
[16:44] <nxvl> for example: i accepter my first mentee some time ago, we coordinate to meet us on the IRC the day after that
[16:44] <nxvl> but he never showed
[16:44] <huats> have you try to ping him by email ?
[16:44] <nxvl> i think we should give mentors to people that are already contributors
[16:45] <nxvl> and has demostrate a real interest in ubuntu development
[16:45] <huats> nxvl: I won't be like that
[16:46] <huats> since people might find difficult to start without someone who is mentoring
[16:46] <huats> ...
[16:46] <huats> I really think it is something that we have to live wih
[16:46] <nxvl> well, with that i don't mean to be almost a uuc, but to have 2 weeks to a month around
[16:46] <nxvl> not a guy that finds ubuntu and ask for a mentor right away
[16:46] <huats> of course we should try to face it
[16:46] <huats> ok
[16:46] <nxvl> just to see if h like it
[16:47] <huats> so why not ask any applicant if he has already work on fixing bugs/triagging and stuffs...
[16:47] <nxvl> we should ask for at least some bug comments, a launchpad account
[16:47] <nxvl> and maybe a patch
[16:47] <nxvl> huats: works for me
[16:47] <huats> I would be strongly against the patch
[16:47] <nxvl> if he is not, instead of saying: ok dude, come back later
[16:47] <porthose> that should already be on their wiki page
[16:48] <nxvl> we just wait a couple of weeks to process his/her application
[16:48] <nxvl> to see is the interest is real
[16:48] <nxvl> huats: that's why the maybe is inthere
[16:48] <huats> but LP account and bugs comments/triagging is a great basis
[16:48] <huats> :)
[16:48] <huats> I know :)
[16:49] <huats> regarding the delay of application, I am not too sure
[16:49] <huats> I'd rather say someone : can you work a bit more, instead of not saying anything...
[16:49] <nxvl> ok, then we are all for asking for at least bug triagging/comments or delay the processing of the application?
[16:50] <huats> I would be in favor of telling the applicant that he need to work a bit before applying again...
[16:50] <nxvl> or we can say: "ok, we are processing your application, in the meantime can you work on this by your own"
[16:50] <huats> ok
[16:50] <huats> that sounds better to me
[16:50] <porthose> cool:)
[16:50] <huats> so we need a new file with pending applications :)
[16:50] <nxvl> the thing is that in those cases we will be the face of the ubuntu development community
[16:51] <huats> with the date of communication
[16:51] <nxvl> since we will be the first step into it for the new developer
[16:51] <huats> sure...
[16:51] <nxvl> and thinking as a new contributor, if they tell me "ok work a little more se we take you in account" is even rude
[16:51] <nxvl> and they will just go
[16:52] <nxvl> which is not what we want
[16:52] <huats> We need to explain our policy
[16:53] <nxvl> we are like salesmans
[16:53] <huats> but it is not rude
[16:53] <nxvl> and we need to sale
[16:53] <nxvl> and the new contributor is our costumer
[16:53] <nxvl> and we want to make the sale
[16:54] <huats> to say : "we are about to put a lot of time/effort to help you.... and we need to be sure you are interested..."
[16:54] <porthose> yea but we need to look at the quality of the contibutor, we don't want any joe smo who just figured out how to turn on his computer to get a mentor do we?
[16:56] <porthose> IMHO that's a waste of resources
[16:56] <nxvl> ok, i still find the "you can do this while we process your application" better
[16:56] <nxvl> but yes, i'm ok with your suggestion too
[16:56] <porthose> agreed
[16:58] <huats> sure
[16:59] <huats> I agreee with you nxvl
[16:59] <huats> and may be add something like : doing that will fasten your application :)
[17:00] <nxvl> ok
[17:00] <nxvl> point closed then
[17:01] <nxvl> huats: any other points?
[17:01] <huats> nope for me
[17:01] <huats> nxvl: ? porthose ?
[17:01] <nxvl> im ok
[17:01] <porthose> Im good :)
[17:01] <huats> ok
[17:01] <huats> grat
[17:01] <huats> great
[17:02] <huats> so meeting over
[17:02] <porthose> oh one more
[17:02] <huats> does anybody can take care of the minutes ?
[17:02] <huats> porthose: sure
[17:02] <porthose> when will the next meeting be
[17:02] <nxvl> porthose: are you going to UDS?
[17:02] <huats> :)
[17:03] <porthose> afraid not :-(
[17:03] <nxvl> then not at UDS
[17:04] <huats> ok
[17:04] <huats> let's say around the 20th of november ?
[17:05] <huats> I'll send both of you a doodle
[17:05] <porthose> cool will mark the calender :)
[17:05] <huats> with some proposals :)
[17:05] <huats> ok ?
[17:05] <porthose> k
[17:06] <porthose> ok now I'm done :)
[17:07] <huats> great !
[17:07] <huats> thanks guys :)
[17:07] <huats> anyone can do the minutes ?
[17:09] <porthose> do you want it on a wiki page?
[17:14] <seancarlgrech_> membership meeting?
[17:20] <seancarlgrech_> is the emea membership meeting going to be held?
[17:22] <persia> seancarlgrech_, It appears to be scheduled to start in about 150 minutes.
[17:23] <seancarlgrech_> :o thanks a lot persia... i've terribly miscalculated than!
[17:23] <persia> seancarlgrech_, I may be miscalculating : /topic says 20:00 UTC.
[17:24] <seancarlgrech_> indeed...
[17:24] <persia> Hmm.  And Americas Membership Board at 23:00.  Somehow I think one or both of those times would do well to shift so they would be more widely distributed.
[17:28] <seancarlgrech_> all i intended was to see if i'm eligible to become a member
[17:29] <seancarlgrech_> but seems that i'll have to wait till next time
[17:37] <seancarl> no meeting then?
[17:38] <persia> Isn't it 16:39 UTC?
[17:42] <seancarl> in malta it's 18.39
[17:42] <seancarl> i supposed that utc is maltese time -2hrs
[17:43] <seancarl> it could be +2hr ... not sure...
[17:44] <seancarl> i'm confused now..
[17:45] <seancarl> persia: thanks... i got to leave, as i have another meeting (not online)
[17:45] <seancarl> which i was going to loose in order to be present here :S
[18:23] <oirft> All members of asianbookie chat/forums need go on http://probetting.blog.com http://probetting.blog.com The service is recommand from BA big europe forum.For every info our service guaranted for winning.
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[19:15] <highvoltage> Burgertime
[19:36] <Burgundavia> highvoltage: Burgertime?
[19:40] <highvoltage> Burgundavia: sorry, there was a pizza ad on tv where they said 'pizzatime', and right at that moment you joined. I couldn't help myself.
[20:00] <emgent> hello
[20:05]  * emgent waiting meeting
[20:05] <emgent> @schedule rome
[20:10]  * emgent hugs stefanlsd
[20:11] <stefanlsd> hehe
[20:53] <riot_le1> msg NickServ IDENTIFY ser456
[20:53] <riot_le1> ups forgot /
[20:55] <riot_le1> i dont know why i cant rename my nick today
[20:57] <philwyett> Time for a password change then riot_le1 ;-)
[20:58] <riot_le1> :phylwyett: i dont like IRC, i will change password soon
[20:59] <riot_le1> i dont like pidgin i wrote just simply a message without a smiley or the code of this smiley, crazy
[20:59] <emgent> hahaha
[21:00] <philwyett> :-)
[21:00] <riot_le1> i try to login with my normal account but nothing happens, thats a reason more to hate IRC ;-)
[21:01] <emgent> @schedule rome
[21:01] <riot_le_> so i rename it
[21:01] <emgent> meeting time..
[21:01] <philwyett> I have never used pidgin for IRC. xchat-gnome all the way.
[21:01] <emgent> someone up ?
[21:01] <emgent> Seveas ?
[21:02] <Seveas> hey
[21:02] <riot_le_> i use pidgin for all protocols i need: Jabber, ICQ and so on
[21:02] <Seveas> I don't think that time is very correct
[21:03] <Seveas> 'cause meeting should be now :)
[21:03] <emgent> Seveas: why not ?
[21:03] <phanatic> yep, it's meeting time
[21:03] <Seveas> launchpad is being slow as usual, not helping
[21:04] <Seveas> popey, prod
[21:04] <Seveas> forumsmatthew, prod
[21:04] <phanatic> PriceChild, stgraber: are you here, guys?
[21:04] <Seveas> stgraber, prod
[21:05] <PriceChild> Hey
[21:05] <Seveas> well, without a functioning launchpad our job will be quite difficult...
[21:05] <popey> hi
[21:05] <PriceChild> edge seems to be up?
[21:06] <riot_le_> i hate IRC!!!
[21:06] <popey> launchpad.net works here
[21:06] <Seveas> yeah, it's back
[21:06] <Seveas> but it's happened twice already tonight that it gave errors
[21:06] <Seveas> riot_le_, behave...
[21:06] <popey> :S
[21:06] <forumsmatthew> sorry
[21:06] <forumsmatthew>  I'm here
[21:07] <emgent> nice :)
[21:07] <popey> looking good
[21:07] <emgent> stefanlsd: pinghe :)
[21:07] <stefanlsd> present
[21:07] <emgent> nice :)
[21:07] <Seveas> all candidates: please prepare a 3-line intro about yourself in a text editor and paste it in here when you're up
[21:08] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[21:08] <popey> FYI
[21:08] <riot_le_> what should be include in the intro?
[21:08] <popey> arc riley can be removed - he was approved by another team
[21:08] <Seveas> ok
[21:08] <Seveas> hunmaat, are you there?
[21:08] <hunmaat> hi
[21:08] <Seveas> heya
[21:09] <Seveas> please paste your intro
[21:09] <Seveas> while we check wikipage etc.
[21:09] <hunmaat> i'm writing it...
[21:10] <Seveas> are there other hungarian locoteam members here who want to vouch for hunmaat ?
[21:10] <jernst> Hello,
[21:10] <jernst> My name is Jonathan Ernst (jernst).
[21:10] <jernst> I'm 27 and live in Geneva, Switzerland. I'm a computer scientist and I'm using Linux since 1999.
[21:10] <jernst> I'd like to be an Ubunut member because I feel I belong to this community and can contribute something back.
[21:10] <jernst> You can get more informations about me here : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/jonathanernst
[21:10] <riot_le_> Hi, i'am Martin Kaufmann. I work for the Ubuntu Events Team,
[21:10] <riot_le_> i also organize the Meetings of the Ubuntuusergroup Leipzig (the City where
[21:10] <riot_le_> i live). I also involved with the Linux4Afrika-Projects which sends
[21:10] <riot_le_> Terminalserver-Thincliens-Solutions to Afrika, based on Ubuntu
[21:11] <Seveas> jernst, it's not your turn yet. Wait please
[21:11] <Seveas> DO NOT PASTE until it's your turn
[21:11] <riot_le_> ok sorry
[21:11] <jernst> Seveas: sorry about that I didn't know there were turns
[21:11] <stgraber> I'mhere, sorry for being late
[21:11] <Seveas> hi stgraber1
[21:12] <hunmaat> I'm a Hungarian student. I'm a web developer and community member of ubuntu-hu since it's birth. I contribute regularly to localisation. I'm working now on our new website.
[21:12] <riot_le_> hi stgraber
[21:12] <Seveas> hunmaat, can you give me a link to your profile page on the ubuntu-hu forum?
[21:12] <toros> Seveas: I fully support the membership of Mate. He has been a very active member of the hungarian community on many fields for many years. I think, nobody knows better our site (ubuntu.hu), than him.
[21:12] <popey> i am seeing quite an effort in translation by hunmaat since 2006
[21:12] <phanatic> i support hunmaat's membership, since he is a key member on our loco team.
[21:12] <Seveas> ah, that settles it then :)
[21:12] <Seveas> +1
[21:12] <forumsmatthew> This is an easy one for me...
[21:12] <forumsmatthew> +1
[21:13] <popey> yeah, +1
[21:13] <hunmaat> http://ubuntu.hu/user/maat
[21:13] <phanatic> +1 from me obviously :)
[21:13] <Seveas> phanatic, couldn't you have said that before I tried to understand hungarian :P
[21:13] <emgent> hunmaat: can i see your launchpad profile ?
[21:13] <hunmaat> https://launchpad.net/~orymate
[21:13] <PriceChild> emgent: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[21:13] <stgraber> +1
[21:14] <Seveas> PriceChild, your vote please
[21:14] <PriceChild> +1
[21:14] <phanatic> welcome on board, hunmaat :)
[21:15] <hunmaat> thank you
[21:15] <popey> keep up the good work hunmaat !
[21:15] <emgent> ok nice work hunmaat
[21:15] <Seveas> welcome hunmaat!
[21:15] <forumsmatthew> congrats!!
[21:15] <Seveas> amireldor, you're up next
[21:15] <stefanlsd> grats hunmaat!
[21:16] <Seveas> amireldor appears idle/missing. Moving on to stefanlsd. amireldor, poke me in a pm if you return
[21:16] <Seveas> stefanlsd, your intro please :)
[21:16] <stefanlsd> My name is Stefan Lesicnik. I am 27, living in South Africa and run a Linux Consulting company (also Canonical Partners!). I am part of the Ubuntu ZA Loco team, and working towards becomming a MOTU. (emgent is my mentor).  I have uploaded through sponsors 20 packages into Intrepid (http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/utu/utu_intrepid.php) and worked on a bunch of others.
[21:16] <emgent> I`d like support stefanlsd (my mentee)
[21:16] <PriceChild> emgent: how come?
[21:17] <emgent> Him help me and other people in the security team in bugfixing and research
[21:17] <PriceChild> Wouldn't this then be better judged by an application to ubuntu contributing developer? (i believe that's the right term)
[21:18] <Seveas> -1 from me. No documentation on the wiki and I don't feel comfortable judging MOTU-hopefuls without contributions in other areas
[21:18] <stefanlsd> Seveas: which documentation are you referring too?
[21:18] <PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
[21:18] <Seveas> I agree with PriceChild, the MOTU would be a more appropriate route
[21:18] <Seveas> stefanlsd, before you apply for membership, you must document your contributions on your wikipage
[21:18] <popey> i can "only" see 27 bugs that stefanlsd has contributed to and many of those are dupes..
[21:18] <forumsmatthew> I'm going to have to agree. It sounds like you are doing some good things, but they would be better evaluated by others than us.
[21:18] <Seveas> which you have not done
[21:19] <emgent> PriceChild: it`snt really correct, first to became MOTU is possible join ubuntu members.
[21:19] <popey> emgent: you can get your membership through MOTU, you dont have to get it from us first
[21:19] <emgent> Seveas: stefanlsd work in ubuntu community, him is very active
[21:19] <stefanlsd> Seveas: http://people.lsd.co.za/wiki/stefan/MOTU
[21:20] <emgent> also working in developement and security
[21:20] <Seveas> emgent, I appreciate that but if most contributions are in MOTUland, then the MOTU path is the path to follow to become member, not the locoteam path
[21:20] <PriceChild> emgent: prospective developers can become an "ubuntu contributing developer", granted by the MOTU council I believe. Being in this team gives membership.
[21:20] <emgent> Seveas: him dont work only in developement, him i very active in community too.
[21:21] <popey> -1 from me too based on a lack of detail on his wiki page and a lack of development detail shown in launchpad
[21:21] <Seveas> emgent, I see no documentation/evidence of that. Such documentation must be prepared *before* the meeting
[21:21] <popey> I'd also recommend that stefanlsd go via the MOTU route.
[21:21] <stefanlsd> Seveas: again - http://people.lsd.co.za/wiki/stefan/MOTU  ?
[21:21] <forumsmatthew> I'm sorry, I can't approve in good conscience right now. Perhaps with better documentation, or better yet, go through the MOTU people.  -1
[21:22] <phanatic> there is no documentation about community work, i'm afraid
[21:22] <stefanlsd> kk
[21:22] <stefanlsd> thanks. will work thru UUC
[21:22] <popey> and the documentation should be on the ubuntu wiki for MOTU too :)
[21:23] <Seveas> phanatic, stgraber, PriceChild: Please give a +1/0/-1
[21:23] <forumsmatthew> I think you are headed in the right direction, and I hope to see you as a member later.
[21:23] <PriceChild> -1
[21:23] <phanatic> -1
[21:23] <stgraber> -1
[21:23] <PriceChild> I think I've explained why.
[21:24] <stefanlsd> just to check, linking from the ubuntu wiki to another wiki site - is not allowed?
[21:24] <Seveas> And I think stefanlsd understands why too. stefanlsd please keep up the good work and good luck going the MOTU route!
[21:24] <Seveas> stefanlsd, the ubuntu community prefers to have all such documentation to be in the ubuntu wiki
[21:24] <forumsmatthew> The link was less of a problem than the emptiness of the page you linked to, although having it on the official ubuntu wiki is much better
[21:25] <forumsmatthew> *relative emptiness
[21:25] <Seveas> arcriley will be skipped
[21:25] <Seveas> schakenberg seems to be missing
[21:25] <Seveas> seancarl, are you there and are you sean carl grech? :)
[21:25] <seancarl> yes
[21:25] <Seveas> excellent!
[21:26] <Seveas> your intro please
[21:26] <popey> (for future reference, i wonder if we should send out a courtesy mail to all potential new members, 24 hours before the meeting - something to think about)
[21:26] <Seveas> popey, +1
[21:26] <forumsmatthew> popey, +1
[21:26] <seancarl> Hi i'm SeanCarl Grech, I've been using ubuntu since 7.10 Desktop was released. Now I distribute Ubuntu CDs and promote Ubuntu. I offer free support for Ubuntu users in Malta. I'm helping out other users on ubuntuforums.org. I create wallpapers in order to share with other Ubuntu users. I'm also spending some time translating to Maltese. I've started the Malta LoCo team, joined linuxmalta.tk and curently we're also planning to meet soon.
[21:26] <Seveas> are ther other maltese people to vouch for seancarl ?
[21:27] <Seveas> if so, speak up now :)
[21:27] <seancarl> no, no one....
[21:27] <popey> i like the loco logo :)
[21:27] <seancarl> we are quite few at the moment
[21:27] <seancarl> and only have 2 or three developers
[21:27] <seancarl> thanks
[21:27] <PriceChild> btw launchpad still seems to be having troubles, but plonk an "edge." before it if you've got acces and that looks fine

[21:28] <popey> i see 4 translations within the last month
[21:28] <Seveas> which country is malta part of?
[21:28] <popey> none before

[21:28] <seancarl> europe
[21:28] <seancarl> malta is a country
[21:28] <popey> it's an island country
[21:28] <seancarl> small island
[21:28] <phanatic> it is a country :)
[21:28] <Seveas> ah
[21:28] <Seveas> what's the main language?
[21:28] <popey> maltese :)
[21:28] <ogra> maltesian :P
[21:28] <seancarl> i'd like to know if there are members already (didnt find anyone yet... :(     )
[21:29] <forumsmatthew> Seveas, lol
[21:29] <popey> seveas.brain.is.mt
[21:29] <emgent> lol
[21:29] <emgent> apt-get install brain
[21:29] <seancarl> thanks!
[21:29] <Seveas> so anyway...
[21:29] <Seveas> I like to see locoteams emerging everywhere :)
[21:29] <seancarl> are you maltese seveas?
[21:30] <Seveas> but I'm not too convinced yet that seancarl should already be an Ubuntu member
[21:30] <popey> i see the MT loco is quite new
[21:30] <PriceChild> Seveas: looking at the google map, looks like nobody in the group claims to be from there.
[21:30] <Seveas> seancarl, no, I'm absolutely ignorant about malta as you saw :)
[21:30] <seancarl> xD
[21:30] <popey> indeed, I'd like to see a more sustained effort over the next 2-3 months
[21:30] <seancarl> i'd like to have more help...
[21:30] <popey> so far I see very little activity within the team
[21:30] <seancarl> infact...
[21:30] <forumsmatthew> I've only known one other person in Malta using Ubuntu. He kind of disappeared a while ago
[21:30] <Seveas> seancarl, help doesn't fall out of the sky, you've got to recruit people :)
[21:31] <seancarl> we are still recruiting in fact
[21:31] <popey> great!
[21:31] <forumsmatthew> I would like to see a little more evidence of contribution, but I think this is a good beginning and I am hopeful
[21:31] <popey> keep at it!
[21:31] <seancarl> but in malta there are few people
[21:31] <popey> seancarl: what's the population of Malta?
[21:31] <forumsmatthew> about 400000
[21:31] <seancarl> i convinced some developers to start learning linux coding... and thy will join
[21:32] <popey> wow, that is small
[21:32] <seancarl> 402668 in 2004
[21:32] <Seveas> seancarl, I'm quite pleased to see that you are trying to be active and start a locoteam. I think continue building the team for a few more months and gather "evidence" of what you are doing for the community (presentations, photos of demonstrations, testimonials)
[21:32] <seancarl> very small...
[21:32] <seancarl> thanks
[21:32] <popey> I would encourage you to contact the Locos near you for support
[21:32] <seancarl> could i get help and tips organising?
[21:32] <popey> italy, spain, greece/turkey?
[21:33] <seancarl> a ok thanks
[21:33] <PriceChild> I think there's a LoCo mentoring process isn't there?
[21:33] <forumsmatthew> tunisia, if your French or Arabic is up to it
[21:33] <popey> I'd love to see you back in 2-3 months with a bigger team!
[21:33] <emgent> uhm one question..
[21:33] <seancarl> we've already got contact with libya
[21:33] <seancarl> but i'm not sure if they have a loco team
[21:33] <emgent> seancarl: why you joined all team in 2008-10-2 ?
[21:34] <seancarl> sry :S what do you mean?
[21:34] <Seveas> seancarl, the italians have an excellent locoteam, they might be able to help you get started
[21:34] <popey> i dont think Lybia does have a loco
[21:34] <Rafik> popey, no loco in Lybia yet
[21:34] <emgent> i dont understand massjoin argh
[21:34] <emgent> https://launchpad.net/~seancarlgrech/+participation
[21:34] <popey> yes, I agree, contact the Italian LoCo - they have been around a long time, and may well have good advice for you
[21:34] <seancarl> seveas, thanks... will surely contact them then!
[21:34] <popey> emgent: i think that's a by-product if being new
[21:35] <Seveas> ok, let's do the votes now even though it's mostly formality
[21:35] <Seveas> -0 from me
[21:35] <popey> 0
[21:35] <forumsmatthew> 0
[21:35] <seancarl> honestly i'd also love to see the team functioning before becoming a member
[21:35] <popey> thats the best way to do it seancarl
[21:35] <popey> seancarl: means you have people who can come and support you when you _do_ go for membership :)
[21:35] <emgent> seancarl: if you work in the team is good, but for me it`s a little early to request membership
[21:35] <PriceChild> -1
[21:36] <phanatic> 0 from me
[21:36] <popey> please do keep up the good work!
[21:36] <seancarl> i supposed so...
[21:36] <Seveas> stgraber, ?
[21:36] <forumsmatthew> I hope to see you back in a few months, with a Maltese cheering section
[21:36] <emgent> seancarl: anyway i'm italian :)
[21:37] <seancarl> wanted the membership just to have more contacts, i just didnt think about contacting other locos...
[21:37] <toros> seancarl: I help you if you want in building community...
[21:37] <seancarl> thanks for your help and tips!
[21:37] <emgent> seancarl: why ? you can contact anyway other locos
[21:37] <Seveas> riot_le_, you're up now
[21:37] <riot_le_> yeah
[21:37] <riot_le_> Hi, i'am Martin Kaufmann. I work for the Ubuntu-Events Team (Germany),
[21:37] <riot_le_> i also organize the Meetings of the Ubuntuusergroup Leipzig. I am working with Ubuntu since 5.04.
[21:37] <riot_le_> I also involved with the Linux4Afrika-Projects which sends
[21:37] <riot_le_> Terminalserver-Thincliens-Solutions to Afrika, based on Ubuntu
[21:38] <seancarl> no, it just didnt pop in my mind of doing so!
[21:38] <Seveas> riot_le_, did you bring a cheering section?
[21:39] <riot_le_> no, lux who become Member last time isnt avivable today cause anyone prepare for the Ubucon tomorrow
[21:39] <seancarl> will return in a few months, hopefully with a well functioning team :) , if i wont come, will encourage some one who'd be more qualified in the team...
[21:39] <forumsmatthew> riot_le_, tell me more about Linux4Afrika
[21:39] <forumsmatthew> that sounds interesting
[21:39] <emgent> good job riot_le_
[21:40] <riot_le_> Linux4Afrika sends about 600 PCs (Thinclients) and 20 Server to Tansania at this time
[21:40] <riot_le_> we also looking forward to Aethopia and Mozambique
[21:40] <forumsmatthew> how do you find the people/schools that you send them to?
[21:40] <riot_le_> where the next projects will taking place
[21:41] <riot_le_> we are searching for thrustworthy partners in this Area
[21:41] <popey> http://martin-kaufmann.net/blog/?p=18 I have seen this picture somewhere - I think stumbleupon took me to your blog once :)
[21:41] <Seveas> Your community work looks good, but I'm only seeing a list. I'd much rather see some pictures, testimonials or a cheering section
[21:41] <riot_le_> waiting
[21:42] <riot_le_> thats the Pics from 1 Year Ubuntu Leipzig: http://nasi.nowhere.ws/galery/
[21:42] <stgraber> Seveas: sorry, that'd have been a 0 too (I'm quite busy at work now :( )
[21:43] <riot_le_> the gallery was down but was upped the last days so i dont included in the wiki-page
[21:43] <Seveas> stgraber, fair enough
[21:43] <popey> \o/ beer and laptops
[21:43] <Seveas> riot_le_, do you work a lot with dholbach or juliux?
[21:43] <forumsmatthew> and bratwurst!!
[21:43] <emgent> popey: and cisco linksys!
[21:43] <emgent> :D
[21:44] <juliux> sorry?
[21:44] <Seveas> hey juliux :)
[21:44] <juliux> how can i help?
[21:44] <riot_le_> yes i changed some emails with dholbach about his UDW-Talks
[21:44] <amireldor> hello all
[21:44] <Seveas> juliux, this is EMEA membership approval board. riot_le_ (Martin Kaufmann) is up and I'm missing a cheering section
[21:44] <riot_le_> i started bugfixing after his Talks about it
[21:45] <Seveas> riot_le_, that's only 22 bugs touched so far, not enough activity to warrant membership
[21:45] <juliux> Seveas: he is doing a good job leading the local ubuntu team in leipzig
[21:45] <Seveas> juliux, good enough for membership?
[21:45] <juliux> Seveas: i think yes
[21:45] <Seveas> +1 from me then
[21:46] <popey> and there's the cheer
[21:46] <popey> :)
[21:46] <juliux> Seveas: he is doing it now more then one year and he is coming to all ubuntu events in the region and helps there witht the booth
[21:46] <forumsmatthew> I like what I see, and that tipped me over to a +1
[21:46] <riot_le_> seveas: i just started bugfixing ;-)
[21:46] <Seveas> forumsmatthew, well said
[21:46] <PriceChild> Cheers are invaluable.
[21:46] <juliux> Seveas: he is also coming and helping at ubucon this weekend
[21:46] <popey> riot_le_: join 5-a-day :)
[21:46] <popey> +1 from me for sustained community commitment
[21:46] <stgraber> +1
[21:46] <phanatic> +1
[21:47] <juliux> yeah join the ubunt-de 5 a day team;)
[21:47] <juliux> 7window 26
[21:47] <popey> fail
[21:47] <Seveas> juliux, join less channels :P
[21:47] <Seveas> PriceChild, your vote please
[21:47]  * popey hands juliux a shift key
[21:47] <riot_le_> popey: 5-a-day is cool but i dont have any day time to do it
[21:47] <popey> riot_le_: it's not easy, that's true
[21:47] <juliux> Seveas: busy with ubucon:(
[21:47] <juliux> popey: thanks
[21:48] <PriceChild> Yup I'm going to go +1 too!
[21:48] <Seveas> juliux, you can leave here again if you wish, riot_le_ is now approved ;)
[21:48] <Seveas> congrats riot_le_ !
[21:48] <Seveas> amireldor, you're up
[21:48] <amireldor> hello then
[21:48] <riot_le_> thank you very much
[21:48] <juliux> congratulations riot_le_
[21:48] <juliux> riot_le_: see you soon;)
[21:48] <forumsmatthew> congratulations, riot_le_
[21:48] <juliux> Seveas: thanks;)
[21:48] <emgent> riot_le_: welcome in ubuntu family :)
[21:49] <Seveas> (amireldor, if you want amir@ubuntu.com, you'll need to have the launchpad account amir ;))
[21:49] <riot_le_> thank you Julix see you tomorrow
[21:49] <amireldor> Seveas can't there be an exception this time?
[21:50] <forumsmatthew> Seveas, and some evidence of community involvement... amireldor your wiki page is pretty sparse
[21:50] <Seveas> amireldor, well, I don't think it'll be necessary yet. Launchpad karma is low and I see no evidence of a sustained and significant contributions on your wikipage
[21:50] <Seveas> -1 from me
[21:50] <forumsmatthew> -1
[21:50] <stgraber> -1
[21:50] <amireldor> maybe it's too early for me to become an official ubuntu member
[21:50] <PriceChild> -1
[21:50] <emgent> correct
[21:51] <forumsmatthew> amireldor, probably. Do more, document it, and then come back and we will look with interest.
[21:51] <popey> yes, I'd come back in 2-3 months with a more fleshed out wiki page
[21:51] <popey> -1
[21:51] <Seveas> amireldor, then please continue contributing (and documenting those contributions :)) and apply later. The -1's we're throwing now don't mean you are not welcome :)
[21:51] <forumsmatthew> Seveas, +1
[21:51] <amireldor> yes i understand, thanks
[21:51] <phanatic> -1, a more detailed wiki page would help a lot when you re-apply
[21:51] <amireldor> i'll take it into account phanatic
[21:51] <Seveas> Moving on, sianis is up next
[21:51] <sianis> Hi. I am István Nyitrai. I am 22 years old, living in Hungary. I am working with Ubuntu since 5.04 beta. I am active member of Hungarian LoCo, Ubuntu Hungarian Translators and developer of nightmonkey.
[21:52] <Seveas> phanatic, can you save me some time this time and voice your opinion? :)
[21:52] <kelemengabor> sianis: what's that nightmonkey thing? :)
[21:52] <phanatic> please don't blame me for the hungarian horde of ubunteros :) these guys do an amazing job...
[21:53] <hunmaat> As a new member, I support the membership of Sianis. His work is essential in localisation.
[21:53] <sianis> kelemengabor: you know it well :)
[21:53] <Seveas> phanatic, hordes of ubunteros should be praised, not blamed :)
[21:53] <popey> 102 translations..
[21:53] <kelemengabor> sianis: but they don't
[21:53] <emgent> ...
[21:53] <popey> ..all in the last 3 months
[21:54] <sianis> popey: not all on launchpad
[21:54] <forumsmatthew> This helps with nightmonkey...  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DdtpLpHtml
[21:54] <popey> ah
[21:54] <phanatic> popey: he's helping with his tools a lot
[21:54] <PriceChild> mvo gives a nice cheer on the wiki page for that
[21:54] <Seveas> so, where can we see results/stats of nightmonkey?
[21:55] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DdtpLpHtml Seveas under "In Actino"
[21:55] <popey> *action
[21:55] <sianis> Seveas: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/nightmonkey/
[21:55] <Seveas> ah
[21:56] <popey> wow, thats an impressive tool, i like it
[21:56] <emgent> nice job sianis
[21:56] <forumsmatthew> I like it when people do things. I like it even better when people do things that make it easier for others to help
[21:56] <popey> i can see how that would be helpful in translations
[21:56] <forumsmatthew> a good tool is a wonderful contribution
[21:56] <sianis> thank you
[21:57] <popey> +1
[21:57] <forumsmatthew> +1
[21:57] <Seveas> when was nightmonkey created?
[21:58] <emgent> 2008-08-23
[21:58] <emgent> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sianis/ddtp-lp-html/devel/changes/5?start_revid=25
[21:58] <sianis> Seveas: at this summer
[21:58] <PriceChild> That looks quite shiny, I'm going for +1 too.
[21:59] <emgent> all bzr commit by sianis
[21:59] <Seveas> I'm going for -1. You're obviously doing lots of good work, but it's all very recent. I'd like to see this continue for a bit longer
[21:59] <phanatic> Seveas: he was one of the original members of our loco back in 2005
[21:59] <phanatic> s/original/first
[21:59] <emgent> Member since:  2005-06-15
[22:00] <Seveas> phanatic, I see no documentations of contributions that go back more than a few months
[22:00] <kelemengabor> Seveas: actually, I founded ubuntu-l10n-hu team with him!
[22:00] <emgent> correct
[22:00] <kelemengabor> that was before breezy, and he was always around
[22:00] <phanatic> the people cheering for him are here to fill in those tiny undocumented gaps :)
[22:00] <kelemengabor> mostly with translations
[22:01] <kelemengabor> and he only recently started to code cool stuff
[22:01] <Seveas> phanatic, 3 years of gap followed by 2-3 months of activity isn't shiny. It's not that I don't trust you but I'd like to see it documented
[22:01] <sianis> Seveas: I don't remember everything, kelemengabor has better memory
[22:01] <phanatic> Seveas: sure, i understand your concern.
[22:02] <popey> ok, PriceChild / stgraber ?
[22:02] <Seveas> PriceChild, had a +1
[22:02] <Seveas> phanatic, can I assume +1 from you?
[22:02] <popey> oh yes
[22:02] <phanatic> yes, +1 from me
[22:03] <Seveas> stgraber, is probably busy at work again
[22:03] <PriceChild> I knew I'd regret the use of "shiny".
[22:03] <Seveas> let's move on to njpatel while we wait for stgraber's vote
[22:03] <njpatel> hey
[22:04] <njpatel> Hey guys, my name is Neil J. Patel and I live in Northwood, UK. I'm am user interface designer/application engineer working at Canonical. Currently my major two projects are Ubuntu Netbook Remix and Avant Window Navigator. I'm also involved in upstream GNOME and am working on/helping out on various UI stuff (like the recent hackfest) and also on things like desktop-wide progress notifications, some of which will hopefully land in Jaunty.
[22:04] <njpatel> woops, that's longer than three lines, sorry
[22:04] <forumsmatthew> dude! I love AWN
[22:04] <Seveas> njpatel, when did you join canonical?
[22:04] <njpatel> Seveas: end of Feb this year
[22:04] <njpatel> forumsmatthew: heh, thanks :-)
[22:04] <emgent> njpatel: uhm i dont see community work
[22:05] <emgent> only devel work, same to stefanlsd
[22:05] <njpatel> emgent: yeah it's mostly devel work
[22:05] <phanatic> that's correct
[22:05] <Seveas> +1 from me. For canonical employees that work in this area, sustained and significant contributions are almost guaranteed.
[22:06] <njpatel> emgent: community aspect is really just helping people get started with UNR, helping get it on old laptops and netbooks that don't some preinstalled with Ubuntu
[22:06] <emgent> njpatel: yep it`s usual for all ubuntu lovers :)
[22:06] <Seveas> emgent, contrary to stefanlsd's application, njpatel documents what he works on and his LP karma is evidence of work
[22:06] <emgent> Seveas: i dont understand your vote at this point
[22:07] <njpatel> we've made some nice headway with the Acer Aspire One and eeePC community, lots of them are switching over. Awesome to see :-)
[22:07] <emgent> Seveas: it`s an devel work, not community work..
[22:07] <Seveas> emgent, so I'm comfortable voting +1 here
[22:07] <forumsmatthew> I think part of community participation is making ubuntu accessible to more people...
[22:07] <Seveas> emgent, but it's development work that is easily verifiable by us.
[22:07] <forumsmatthew> I'm +1
[22:07] <popey> emgent: it doesn't have to be pure communty work
[22:07] <popey> +1 from me
[22:08] <emgent> Seveas: by stefanlsd too IMHO
[22:08] <emgent> ask kees and jdstrand if you like.
[22:08] <PriceChild> emgent: we should ask those two for evidence of stefan's work?
[22:08] <emgent> sorry but i dont understand this decision..
[22:08] <Seveas> emgent, then he should bring kees and jdstrand here to vouch for him.
[22:08] <jdstrand> I am here
[22:09] <jdstrand> we are talking about stefanlsd? for what?
[22:09] <njpatel> I'm hoping to do some more community work in-and-around London by attending some lugs to see if I can get more people interested in developing. Hopefully starting at the end of this month
[22:09] <Seveas> anyway, we're now talking about njpatel, not stefanlsd
[22:09] <phanatic> +1 for njpatel
[22:09] <jdstrand> ok, ping me if you need me
[22:10] <Seveas> PriceChild, stgraber: your vote on njpatel?
[22:10] <emgent> for me it`snt correct, i love njpatel devel work in ubuntu && canonical, but stefanlsd working in devel too.
[22:10] <PriceChild> -1 from me. I said earlier that I don't feel we're the people to assess development contributions and I think that still.
[22:11] <emgent> please see:
[22:11] <popey> hmm, tricky
[22:11] <emgent> https://launchpad.net/~stefanlsd/+related-software
[22:11] <emgent> https://launchpad.net/~njpatel/+related-software
[22:11] <Seveas> PriceChild, we've done so before though, for people were we felt comfortable with judging their contribution
[22:12] <PriceChild> Seveas: the times I can remember, there was usually other community work around it, and I see little of that here.
[22:12] <emgent> and njpatel and stefanlsd are in the same status, not documented work in the community.
[22:12] <PriceChild> emgent: We've read and understand your concerns.
[22:12] <stgraber> Seveas: +1
[22:12] <PriceChild> Seveas: regardless, despite my evilness I think there is a decision :)
[22:12] <Seveas> stgraber, was that for njpatel or sianis? :)
[22:13] <stgraber> Seveas: njpatel
[22:13] <stgraber> Seveas: +1 for sianis too
[22:13] <stgraber> and I need to run now ... sorry
[22:13] <Seveas> PriceChild, the person who wrote the windows ubuntu installer
[22:13] <Seveas> I think we approved him on dev-only
[22:14] <Seveas> (grepping mail for details)
[22:14] <popey> "wubi guy"
[22:14] <popey> :)
[22:14] <Seveas> that one yeah. I'm terrible with names :)
[22:14] <phanatic> that means sianis got accepted?
[22:14] <persia> xivulon
[22:14] <Seveas> hang on a sec phanatic
[22:15] <popey> Agostino Russo == Wubi Guy
[22:15] <emgent> yep
[22:15] <njpatel> he's a cool dude, met him at UDS prague
[22:15] <emgent> ago in launchpad if i remembe rwell
[22:15] <Seveas> PriceChild, from my june 4 mail to the counculs:
[22:15] <Seveas> Judging MOTU achievements
[22:15] <Seveas> -------------------------
[22:15] <Seveas> In the first meeting we rejected an applicant because we thought MOTU
[22:15] <Seveas> achievements should be judged by the MOTU. We refined that statement a
[22:15] <Seveas> bit since we do feel comfortable approving members if we feel we can
[22:15] <Seveas> judge their MOTU contributions appropriately, which imho we indeed could
[22:15] <emgent> s/remembe rwell/remember well/
[22:15] <Seveas> not for Mantas but we could do for some of this weeks candidates.
[22:16] <Seveas> anyway: sianis and njpatel, both congrats on membership!
[22:16] <popey> njpatel: see you at UDS Jaunty :)
[22:16] <sianis> thank you
[22:16] <forumsmatthew> congrats, you two
[22:16] <forumsmatthew> with that, I have to leave...sorry
[22:16] <njpatel> wow :-)  Seveas, all, thanks!
[22:16] <phanatic> congratulations to both of you
[22:16] <Seveas> last candidate for today is jernst
[22:16] <njpatel> popey: see you there :-)
[22:16] <jernst> Hello, My name is Jonathan Ernst (jernst). I'm 27 and live in Geneva, Switzerland. I'm a computer scientist and I'm using Linux since 1999. I'd like to be an Ubunut member because I feel I belong to this community and can contribute something back. I'm member of Ubuntu Swiss Users and Ubuntu French Translators. I'm mostly working on French l18n (I translate most GNOME packages upstream too), Wine, advocacy, user support, system adminis
[22:16] <Seveas> hmm, we lost two people now
[22:17] <popey> we're over time too
[22:17] <Seveas> popey, phanatic, PriceChild: shall we 'interrogate' jernst but leave the decision for later? Let forumsmatthew and stgraber vote by mail?
[22:17] <jernst> I'm ready to be interrogated ;-)
[22:17] <popey> well.. given jernst only added himself today
[22:17] <popey> I think he should wait :)
[22:18] <Seveas> heeh
[22:18] <PriceChild> oo-ef
[22:18] <Seveas> popey, seeing the wikipage I think that's a good idea. But we shouldn't wait 2 months with the next meeting :)
[22:18] <phanatic> indeed :)
[22:18] <popey> :S yes
[22:18] <popey> 2 weeks?
[22:19] <Seveas> jernst, what I meant was: you've seen how valuable we think testimonials are. Please collect a few and bring some people to the next meeting to cheer for you
[22:19] <PriceChild> Silly lag. Hmm 4 is still enough of us.
[22:19] <popey> i would _like_ to go, I have some testing to do..
[22:19] <Seveas> PriceChild, technically yes, but I'm not too comfortable with that. We're usually able to gather 6 council members :)
[22:20] <jernst> Seveas: ok will do. As you checked the wiki page already, do you want me to add something for the next meeting ?
[22:20] <popey> jernst: would you mind if we "bumped" you to the next meeting?
[22:21] <jernst> popey: I was quite excited to participate in this meeting. But if I have to wait, I'll wait
[22:21] <Seveas> jernst, you've now seen how it works, you'll be the best prepared candidate in the next meeting and might pass with flying colors :)
[22:21] <jernst> Seveas: I think vuntz could "cheer" for me but he seems to be idle
[22:21] <PriceChild> Sounds like a plan.
[22:22] <Seveas> jernst, get him to cheer on your wikipage. A cheer from vunts is worth at least +0.5 from me :)
[22:23] <Seveas> ok, meeting adjourned
[22:23]  * Seveas hammers
[22:23] <phanatic> shall we settle on the next meeting now, or we'll do that on the mailing list?
[22:23] <jernst> ok thanks
[22:23] <Seveas> (will summarize and bump launchpad tomorrow)
[22:23] <popey> 2 weeks today?
[22:23] <Seveas> phanatic, could you get a doodle up and mail the list?
[22:24] <phanatic> Seveas: sure.
[22:24] <persia> Could I make a short post-meeting request of board members?
[22:24] <jernst> you can put me back in the list for the next meeting
[22:24] <Seveas> we're missing 2 people, so we can't really decide now
[22:24] <Seveas> persia, please do
[22:24] <persia> Would it be possible to move the meeting an hour or two earlier?  Currently there's only three hours difference between EMEA and Americas, and I suspect that makes timing difficult for some applicants.
[22:25] <persia> I know Asia/Oceania has been getting some applicants from both Americas and EMEA, and wonder if the closeness of the times isn't part of the reason behind that.
[22:25] <popey> i suspect part of the reason was our slackness
[22:25] <popey> the fact that we hadn't had a meeting for a while
[22:25] <Seveas> persia, I think the 2 months between the last meeting and this one is the reason for that
[22:26] <persia> Well, surely that's a factor too :)
[22:26] <popey> i know arc riley bumped his membership application around until he got a team that met
[22:26] <Seveas> but I also wouldn't say no to starting a bit earlier ;)
[22:26] <popey> (which is fair)
[22:26] <popey> i could start 1 hr earlier
[22:26] <popey> any earlier and I'll be cycling back from the train station
[22:27]  * Seveas off, the wife is whining about why I haven't given her any attention for over an hour
[22:28] <popey> get you, bandying about the word "wife" :)
[22:28] <popey> because you can
[22:28] <Seveas> :)
[22:28] <Seveas> wife went to bed now, the whining stopped
[22:32] <Rafik> can I say something ?
[22:32] <jernst> ok bye everyone, see you in two weeks
[22:33] <Rafik> Seveas, popey, persia : what about a membership mentoring concept ? it will make the work of approval boars much easier
[22:34] <Seveas> Rafik, I tried that a while ago and it took too much of my time. If you want to start a mentoring project, feel free to do so :)
[22:34] <persia> Rafik, I don't have any objection, although I'm not likely to have any time to assist in coordination.  I'd strongly recommend focused mentoring, based on area of interest though.
[22:37] <Rafik> Seveas, persia, it can be at least a pre-application review to avoid getting -1 because if an empty wiki page ... and it will be great if it's another Ubuntu member from the LoCo who mentor the candidate
[22:37] <Rafik> s/because if/because of
[22:37] <Seveas> Rafik, the guidelines for wikipages are on the wiki, a link can be found on the agenda
[22:38] <Rafik> yep
[22:38] <Seveas> it's almost harder to miss it than to see it, which is why I often think that people with an empty wikipage just aren't really motivated enough to apply properly
[22:39] <Rafik> Seveas, +1
[22:40] <Rafik> Seveas, that's why the monitoring can help in.
[22:41] <Seveas> Rafik, mentoring will help in the 'not enough information, but getting there' cases. For completely empty wikipages, my only answer is -1 ;)
[22:44] <Rafik> Seveas, thanks :)
[23:08] <lfaraone> Hey, is it OK if I'm a bit late for the meeting?
[23:08] <persia> lfaraone, Which meeting?
[23:08] <lfaraone> (Like say arriving at 23:20 or 23:30 UTC)?
[23:08] <lfaraone> persia: Americas board.
[23:09] <persia> It's usually OK, unless you're first on the list.  If you miss your turn, you'll be unhappy.  Just make sure you come further down in the agenda before the meeting.
[23:10] <persia> Personally, I'd recommend trying to be in the top 5, but remember that you're not supposed to push yourself above anyone who put their name in earlier (although choosing to push yourself down in the list oughtn't be an issue)
[23:10] <lfaraone> persia: There are only 4 peopel today.
[23:10] <lfaraone> *people
[23:11] <lfaraone> persia: and apollock never shows up (so I've heard).
[23:11] <lfaraone> persia: which brings it to 3.
[23:12] <persia> Then put yourself last, and try for 23:20 :)  I suspect last will be later than that, but it's playing safe.  4 candidates in a meeting oughtn't be too many, but it depends on the candidates and the questions from the board.
[23:12] <lfaraone> persia: Thanks. (/me is away, be back hopefully before I'm called)
[23:58] <eightyeight> right in time. didn't get dinner though.
[23:58] <pleia2> :)