[01:39]  * a|wen will has a patch ready for bug 278218 ... just needs to testbuild+test it
[02:01] <a|wen> http://awen.dk/packages/kdeadmin_4.1.2-0ubuntu2.debdiff <- Riddell, apachelogger, ScottK if any of you have time
[02:25] <nixternal> Riddell: wooo! txwikinger if you want to document, I can provide some help
[02:25] <txwikinger> Documenting is not the problem... finding the information that needs to be documented is
[02:26] <txwikinger> However, yes... give me some hints
[02:26] <nixternal> there is plenty to be documented in KDE 4 and of course Kubuntu
[02:26] <nixternal> we use DocBook/XML....very easy markup language, probably easier than HTML in many ways
[02:26] <nixternal> or at least the same
[02:27] <nixternal> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DocumentationTeam
[02:27] <nixternal> there is some good info there to get you started I think
[02:27] <txwikinger> well. I know LaTeX, which is also a SGML
[02:27] <nixternal> if you know LaTeX, then DocBook will be easy for you
[02:30] <txwikinger> Why is konversation always opening FF?
[02:30]  * txwikinger suspects a Gnome conspiracy
[02:31] <nixternal> I have been using Firefox a lot lately....there are some really useful greasemonkey scripts out there
[02:31] <nixternal> though Konqueror will hopefully have greasemonkey support in the near future
[02:32] <coreymon77> nixternal: you just discovered greasemonkey?
[02:32] <coreymon77> nixternal: thats not the only useful extension that firefox has
[02:32] <nixternal> kind of...this is the first time I have used Firefox for more than 2 minutes
[02:32] <txwikinger> Well greasemoney is cute, but I want it on Konq
[02:33] <txwikinger> FF is far too heavyweight
[02:33] <nixternal> someone was writing a plugin for konqi that would allow you to use greasemonkey scripts
[02:33] <coreymon77> i prefer it
[02:33] <txwikinger> cool
[02:33] <coreymon77> i find konq to be more like ie
[02:33] <nixternal> bah
[02:33] <txwikinger> ie?
[02:33] <txwikinger> what is that?
[02:33] <coreymon77> sure, dolphin is now the default filemanager
[02:33] <nixternal> must be that crack
[02:34] <nixternal> coreymon77: for n00bs it is...I don't use dolphin at all
[02:34] <coreymon77> ie=internet explorer
[02:34] <nixternal> nothing beats the cli for file management anyways
[02:34]  * txwikinger hasn't used ie for 50 years or so
[02:34] <txwikinger> well.. maybe 5
[02:34] <coreymon77> as in, it is browser, file manger etc all in one
[02:35] <txwikinger> it still usesless memory than FF
[02:35] <txwikinger> me would not be able to open 60 FFs
[02:35] <coreymon77> and you would do that because?
[02:36] <txwikinger> because I always have around 60 Konqs open
[02:36] <coreymon77> okay...
[02:36] <txwikinger> Don't ask me why.. probably 2nd thermodynamical theory
[02:36] <nixternal> hahahaha
[02:38]  * txwikinger found a cool imap lib for python
[02:42] <txwikinger> nixternal: Did you figure out how to use python apps inside systemsettings?
[02:43] <nixternal> haven't looked at it....was a bit busy today preparing for a presentation tomorrow
[02:43] <nixternal> totally forgot about the presentation until about 3pm today
[02:45] <nixternal> "KDE is not a desktop environment."
[02:45] <nixternal> huh? this is a quote by aseigo I just found on OS News
[02:45] <a|wen> g'nite, see you all tomorrow
[02:45] <nixternal> g'nite a|wen
[02:45] <txwikinger> tomorrow?
[02:46] <txwikinger> ok.. does he say what it is?
[02:46] <nixternal> no
[02:46] <a|wen> txwikinger: not literally, but like in post-sleep
[02:50] <txwikinger> what is this ssdp protocol?
[02:51] <txwikinger> Ah zeroconf is doing that
[02:52]  * txwikinger was rather wondering that nixternal has a presentation tomorrow than seeing a|wen tonorrow
[03:01] <nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bradmcmahon/2943240878/ <- this is what happens when you mix beer and nerds...you get jono and I cutting a rug at a club!
[03:01] <txwikinger> Is that your line dance?
[03:02] <nixternal> hahaha ya
[03:04] <txwikinger> I think I need to get my boots... an all because of KDE
[04:46] <txwikinger> KDE4 comes with an universum
[04:51] <txwikinger> Every time I log into KDE4, it doubles the number o open apps
[05:46] <ScottK> a|wen: Looking at your kdebase patchnow.
[06:25] <ScottK> emma: Please check your network connection.  You're ping ponging in and out of the channel.
[06:25] <ScottK> a|wen: Uploaded.  Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu (that was an important bug to fix).
[07:01] <ScottK> a|wen: I'm too tired to understand why Bug #285313 is still happening.  If you take a look, I'd appreciate it.  I'm off to bed.
[10:03] <apachelogger> yuriy: I have no apparmor
[10:04] <apachelogger> oh my
[10:05] <apachelogger> a|wen: did anyone sponsor yet?
[10:05] <apachelogger> hm
[10:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: just rsynced the live cd ... About Kubuntu is not german, Install is not german, apparently the Live session doesn't use germany as country/region which makes my clock ungermanish, add/remove software is not german either, in fact all of adept is not translated, besides the base KDE strings \o/ reminds me on my early contacts with halfway translated GNOME, for some reason the systemsettings window title is actually
[10:09] <apachelogger>  "System Settings" instead of german translation
[10:09]  * apachelogger starts the installation
[10:13] <apachelogger> "Step 1 of 6" not translated, "Release Notes" not translated, switching to Step 2 magically translates the string (bug), minor issue is that the keyboard layouts are not translated
[10:13] <apachelogger> knetworkmanager isn't speaking any german at all
[10:15] <apachelogger> txwikinger: creating attachments using a file extension would be useful, btw
[10:50] <emonkey> apachelogger, poke me if I can help you with my restricted skills I've got a bit time today, I'm just learning for my exam tommorrow but I can't do that the hole time so ... let me know.
[11:05] <apachelogger> emonkey: fix bug 284915 :P
[11:07] <apachelogger> hm
[11:07] <emonkey> öhm apachelogger no idea how but if you think that's in my range of skills ...
[11:07] <apachelogger> sometimes I think bug reporter report duplicates just to annoy the shit out of me
[11:07] <apachelogger> emonkey: I am not sure if I think that :P
[11:07] <emonkey> I see :)
[11:09] <apachelogger> waaaaah
[11:09] <apachelogger> so many bugs
[11:09]  * apachelogger smashes head against the wall
[11:10] <emonkey> don't otherwise I've to file a bug for fixing your head
[11:11] <smarter> "All in all it's just another brick in the wall"
[11:11] <smarter> hi :)
[11:11] <emonkey> hr :) hi smarter
[11:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: KDM in newly installed system is english
[11:12]  * apachelogger goes lunching while KDE starts
[11:15] <emonkey> lunch? /me is looking for his breakfest ...
[11:29] <apachelogger> wth
[11:29] <apachelogger> Riddell: after the installation the complete desktop is english
[11:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: I clicked the missing lang icon, installed german just to be told that I have to manually select the language, so I got to the language settings and click select system language, select german, relogin, still english?!, go to the language kcm again and try 'add language' not much of german in sight
[11:35] <apachelogger> may I say that this is about as bad as robin trying to add/remove xchat in mandriva one
[11:38]  * apachelogger is not yet giving up
[11:38] <apachelogger> I go to add/remove and search for german in german => no matches \o/
[11:38] <apachelogger> lets try german in english => no matches \o/
[11:39] <apachelogger> *google*
[11:40] <apachelogger> doesn't help
[11:40] <apachelogger> at this point an 'advanced user who is used to windows' would probably give up
[11:41]  * apachelogger installs kde-l10n-de
[11:41] <apachelogger> via apt-get, just make that clear, adept didn't exaclty help with my problem
[11:42] <apachelogger> oh, now I can select german, hooray, let's also set the country
[11:42] <apachelogger> nothing happenes :|
[11:42] <apachelogger> *relogin*
[11:43] <apachelogger> still talking english
[11:44] <smarter> language-pack-kde-de is installed?
[11:44] <apachelogger> it is
[11:45] <apachelogger> though as a normal user I wouldn't know because adept refuses to give me such information
[11:45] <apachelogger> anyway
[11:45] <apachelogger> I give up
[11:45] <apachelogger> the CD was partly german
[11:46] <apachelogger> well, one thing I can try
[11:46] <apachelogger> *reboot*
[11:48] <apachelogger> didn't help
[11:48] <NCommander> hey apachelogger
[11:50] <apachelogger> yo NCommander
[11:50] <NCommander> apachelogger, having fun with the Kubuntu translation packages ;-)?
[11:50] <apachelogger> yes, Kubuntu - the worst localized operating system ever
[11:50] <apachelogger> I don't even know why it is failing
[11:51] <apachelogger> the .mo's are there, the global and local lang settings are both set to german
[11:51] <apachelogger> the location of the .mo files is earched by KDE
[11:52] <NCommander> apachelogger, I think we need to upgrade the localization bug to critical
[11:52] <NCommander> Kubuntu can't release with it not translatable
[11:52] <apachelogger> the bug was critical 2 months ago, now it is more like disaster
[11:52] <NCommander> WTF has the ROsetta team been doing?!
[11:52] <apachelogger> KDE l10n teams are all grumpy, users are all grumpy, I am all grumpy
[11:53] <NCommander> apachelogger, we should probably grab and hug our plan bs.
[11:53]  * apachelogger needs a cigarette and think about the problem
[11:53] <NCommander> er
[11:53] <NCommander> Bs
[11:53] <NCommander> apachelogger, well, can't we bypass rosetta and grab the translations by hand and put them in the correct package?
[11:54] <NCommander> (obviously thats the wrong way to do that, but I'll take the alternative of not releasing)
[11:54] <NCommander> er, that, to the alternative
[11:55]  * smarter gave up a long time ago and simply overwrote the .mo with the one he built from /trunk/l10n-kde4
[11:57] <smarter> hmm
[11:57] <smarter> one user on the french forum said that his Kubuntu 8.10 was translated since yesterday evening
[11:59] <apachelogger> WHAT IN JAMES T. KIRKS NAME!?!?!?!!?!?
[12:00] <NCommander> apachelogger, it *looks* like the actual PO generator is broken
[12:00] <NCommander> I can't download translations. period.
[12:01] <vmlogger> me@me-laptop:~$ dpkg -s language-pack-kde-de-base | grep -i status
[12:01] <vmlogger> Status: install ok installed
[12:01] <vmlogger> me@me-laptop:~$ dpkg -L language-pack-kde-de-base | grep kdelibs4.mo
[12:01] <vmlogger> /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/kdelibs4.mo
[12:02] <vmlogger> me@me-laptop:~$ ls -lah /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/kdelibs4.mo
[12:02] <vmlogger> ls: cannot access /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/kdelibs4.mo: No such file or directory
[12:02] <apachelogger> notice something?
[12:02] <NCommander> That language packs seem to be broken more in general than anything else?
[12:04] <NCommander> apachelogger, is it just KDE thats miserably broken, or everyone?
[12:05] <apachelogger> NCommander: dunno
[12:05]  * apachelogger apt-get reinstalls kde-de-base
[12:05] <NCommander> apachelogger, we have roughly a week and a half to fix translations, right?
[12:06] <apachelogger> more like a week, CD creating and testing needs time as well
[12:06] <apachelogger> ok
[12:06]  * apachelogger runs against the wall
[12:06] <NCommander> Crap
[12:06] <NCommander> I think we need to seriously consider not releasing
[12:07] <NCommander> I remember reading somewhere in the policy manual that the Project Lead can choose not to release if there is just cause
[12:07] <NCommander> I think this qualifies
[12:07] <apachelogger> the package itself works
[12:07] <apachelogger> (somewhat)
[12:07] <apachelogger> but the CD installation didn't
[12:07] <NCommander> The translations themselves are MIA
[12:07] <NCommander> ?
[12:08] <NCommander> I thought the issue was that translations weren't migrating from Rosetta to the kde-* packages
[12:08] <apachelogger> not anymore, or at least partially not anymore
[12:08] <apachelogger> I booted the CD with german locale
[12:08] <apachelogger> desktop was pretty germanish
[12:08] <apachelogger> I installed
[12:08] <NCommander> Ok
[12:08] <NCommander> Well, thats progress
[12:08] <apachelogger> Desktop what nos german at all, then I fiddled
[12:08] <NCommander> I suppose
[12:09] <apachelogger> s/nos/not
[12:09] <NCommander> Someone going to have to setup germinate and start building images
[12:09] <NCommander> If we wait on just the daily CDs, we're screwed :-/
[12:10] <apachelogger> maybe my image is broken
[12:11] <smarter> are LANG and LANGUAGE set to de_something ?
[12:11] <apachelogger> but that would lead to the question why locales were working in the live session
[12:11] <apachelogger> smarter: yes
[12:11] <apachelogger> smarter: see above
[12:11] <apachelogger> the installation was b0rked for some reasoon
[12:11]  * NCommander grabs a CD
[12:11]  * apachelogger gets a new images
[12:11] <smarter> what happens if you try to launch an app with KDE_LANG=de_DE ?
[12:12] <apachelogger> smarter: nothing, the files just weren't there
[12:12] <NCommander> Why are only alternate CDs available?
[12:12] <NCommander> er, nm
[12:12] <NCommander> apachelogger, did you test an alternate CD?
[12:12] <apachelogger> nope
[12:12] <apachelogger> wth
[12:12] <NCommander> ??
[12:12] <apachelogger> I still have untranslated strings
[12:13] <NCommander> C-r-a-p
[12:13] <NCommander> On the liveCD?
[12:13] <apachelogger> on the installation with reinstalled kde-de-base package
[12:13] <smarter> maybe the translation is not complete upstream?
[12:13] <apachelogger> smarter: german is one of the most complete translations
[12:13] <apachelogger> especially visible strings like in the menubar
[12:14] <smarter> then you probably still have the half-borken l10n stuff
[12:15] <apachelogger> well, maybe the german mirror is not up-to-date
[12:15] <apachelogger> still, that doesn't explain the broken installation
[12:16]  * apachelogger switches to archive.ubuntu.com
[12:17] <NCommander> smarter, aren't the packages installed from the CD?
[12:17] <apachelogger> smarter: it's not that
[12:20] <NCommander> apachelogger, any news?
[12:23] <apachelogger> NCommander: dist-upgraded, no improvement
[12:23] <NCommander> apachelogger, that's bad.
[12:24]  * apachelogger is also wondering why KDM is using english
[12:24] <NCommander> that's really bad.
[12:24] <NCommander> apachelogger, on the LiveCD, can you dump the list of packages installed, and then dump the packages installed by the CD?
[12:24] <NCommander> It might reveal whats missing
[12:25] <apachelogger> well, it should be identical
[12:25] <apachelogger> the files just don't match
[12:25] <apachelogger> language-pack-kde-de-base should include all KDE translations
[12:25] <apachelogger> but as started above with the ls, it doesn't really install anything
[12:25] <apachelogger> apt-get --reinstalls gets the files
[12:25] <apachelogger> but then still a lot of stuff is untranslated
[12:25] <NCommander> o________________________________________________________________________________o;
[12:26] <NCommander> But on the LiveCD, things are translated?
[12:26] <apachelogger> yes
[12:26] <apachelogger> well
[12:26] <apachelogger> didn't look at that close
[12:26] <apachelogger> they are at least somewhat translated
[12:26] <NCommander> More translated :-)
[12:27] <apachelogger> well, 12 minutes until my image download is finished
[12:27] <apachelogger> gotta try then
[12:28] <NCommander> apachelogger, should I post the "Should we consider not releasing?" post to kubuntu-devel?
[12:28] <apachelogger> not yet
[12:28] <apachelogger> let me first trace the issues
[12:31] <apachelogger> NCommander: the CD I installed with is as incomplete
[12:32] <NCommander> incomplete?
[12:32] <apachelogger> incomplete translated
[12:32] <apachelogger> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot165.png
[12:32] <NCommander> Thats not good
[12:32] <apachelogger> see menubar
[12:32] <NCommander> But the translations are complete in Launchpad
[12:33] <apachelogger> maybe the KDE 4 ones for german are still not completely imported
[12:33] <apachelogger> smarter: is french completely complete?
[12:33]  * NCommander looks
[12:33] <smarter> not sure, I overwritten it using /trunk/l10n-kde4 last week
[12:33] <smarter> I remove everything and reinstall this evening
[12:33] <apachelogger> ah
[12:33] <smarter> have to go for now
[12:33] <smarter> cya
[12:33] <apachelogger> smarter: cya
[12:35] <apachelogger> NCommander: the incomplete translation is caused by the package, I just installed outside the VM, same incompleteness
[12:36]  * NCommander is trying to find the translation on Launchpad
[12:37]  * apachelogger installe le francais
[12:37] <NCommander> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kdebase/+pots/konqueror/
[12:37] <NCommander> Obviously we're screwed
[12:38] <apachelogger> NCommander: the menubar strings should be in kde4libs AFAIK
[12:38] <apachelogger> they are shared among all apps
[12:39] <NCommander> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kde4libs/+pots/kdelibs4
[12:39] <NCommander> Nice
[12:39] <NCommander> That's wonderful
[12:39] <NCommander> German, and Italian have no translations
[12:39] <apachelogger> that explains a lot
[12:39] <apachelogger> french is working wel here
[12:39] <apachelogger> *well
[12:41] <NCommander> WTF have the translators been up to all cycle?!
[12:41] <apachelogger> more like the rosetta doods
[12:41] <apachelogger> NCommander: http://l10n.kde.org/stats/gui/stable-kde4/team/de/
[12:41] <NCommander> Not a single language has a complete translation
[12:42] <NCommander> Ok
[12:42] <NCommander> Well
[12:42] <NCommander> We're not completely boned
[12:42] <NCommander> We can copy the translations
[12:42] <apachelogger> yeah
[12:42] <apachelogger> well
[12:42] <apachelogger> actually
[12:42] <NCommander> Expect
[12:42] <NCommander> There is a licensing issue
[12:42] <apachelogger> that is what is being tried all the time
[12:43] <NCommander> ????
[12:43] <apachelogger> NCommander: the strings get imported into launchpad
[12:43] <apachelogger> then the upstream translations get imported
[12:43] <NCommander> That won't work for KDE packages
[12:43] <NCommander> They don't use the normal po format
[12:43] <apachelogger> NCommander: lp got special cases
[12:44] <NCommander> *sigh*
[12:44] <NCommander> so what do we do?
[12:44]  * NCommander is strongly considering a lot of copying and pasting
[12:44] <apachelogger> dunno, who is responsible for that kind of stuff?
[12:44] <NCommander> Probably no one since it hasn't been done
[12:44] <NCommander> This has been broken the entire cycle
[12:44] <apachelogger> NCommander: worst case solution would be to make lang-pack-kde-de-base an empty package and make it depend on kde-l10n-de
[12:45] <apachelogger> and ship the KDE translations in kde-l10n-*
[12:45] <NCommander> Won't work. lang-pack-kde-de-base is updated AFAIK
[12:45] <NCommander> Or
[12:45] <NCommander> hold on
[12:45] <apachelogger> well, one can turn off updates
[12:46] <NCommander> I don't consider that an acceptable asolution
[12:46] <apachelogger> I never considered rosetta an acceptable solution as a whole
[12:47] <NCommander> The point is now we're boned
[12:47] <NCommander> apachelogger, rosetta is nice for people who can't program but can translate
[12:47] <NCommander> We need to do roughyl 10-20 translations per package
[12:49] <apachelogger> NCommander: I don't doubt it's use case of rosetta, the implementation is just wrong though
[12:49] <apachelogger> s/it's/the
[12:49]  * apachelogger installs new CD
[12:50] <NCommander> apachelogger, I'm making my case in #launchpad to see if we can get the KDE translations into the import queue
[12:50] <apachelogger> NCommander: #ubuntu-release
[12:50] <apachelogger> they will know what to do and whom to poke
[12:51] <NCommander> We need someone who can import the translations first
[12:51] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: will we?
[12:51] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: I would hope so
[12:51] <Hobbsee> tis a weekend, and people have already been around today.  not sure how much luck you have
[12:51] <NCommander> I was under the impression this was fixed months ago
[12:52] <a|wen> ScottK: thx for picking up the fix for kuser and uploading <-- apachelogger: yes, ScottK did
[12:52] <apachelogger> aye aye
[12:52] <NCommander> Un-fucking believable
[12:59] <a|wen> do we still have translational issues? ... the new langpacks arriving yesterday seemed to fix almost all danish translations though (at least it got from around 20% translated to 80%)
[12:59] <NCommander> a|wen, danish seems ok. We're missing a lot of translations
[13:03] <a|wen> oh ... that's not good then
[13:10] <NCommander> apachelogger, so its official, we're boned?
[13:10] <apachelogger> pretty much
[13:10] <apachelogger> I am much more worrid about the broken installation though
[13:10] <NCommander> Great. We miss a release because of Launchpad
[13:10] <NCommander> apachelogger, what broken installation
[13:10] <apachelogger> NCommander: see above :P
[13:10] <apachelogger> the magic with dpkg -s/-L and ls
[13:11] <apachelogger> the package are installed but the files which are part of the package are not
[13:11] <NCommander> Oh, it gets better by the ****ing minute
[13:11] <Hobbsee> NCommander: no, you miss a *translated* release, due to LP.
[13:11] <Hobbsee> or at least, get a partially translated one
[13:11] <NCommander> Hobbsee, personally, I don't see the difference
[13:11] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: KDE main market is europe
[13:11] <apachelogger> no translated release equals no release
[13:11] <NCommander> ^- what he said
[13:11]  * NCommander sighs
[13:12]  * Hobbsee wonders why no one on the kubuntu team tested this, and noticed this, before.
[13:12] <apachelogger> we did
[13:12] <NCommander> Hobbsee, it was noticed
[13:12] <apachelogger> and we poked LP
[13:12] <apachelogger> all the time
[13:12] <NCommander> We've been waiting months for the Launchpad Rosetta team to fix this
[13:12] <NCommander> It only JUST got fixed
[13:12] <apachelogger> "fixed"
[13:12] <Hobbsee> obviously not agressively enough, it appears.
[13:12] <NCommander> Hobbsee, pretty aggressively; there are more than a few threads on it in the archives
[13:13] <Hobbsee> yeah, well.  Don't talk to me about launchpad's inadequicies today, i've already seen theentire soyuz and other bits explode
[13:13] <NCommander> apachelogger, it gets better
[13:13] <apachelogger> we could have threatened to move to debian :P
[13:13] <NCommander> apachelogger, KDE packages don't seem to get imported
[13:13] <apachelogger> NCommander: blueheaded stepchild
[13:13] <NCommander> apachelogger, only the pots are getting imported
[13:14] <NCommander> Which means the pos aren't
[13:14]  * NCommander hits his head on the wall repeatively
[13:14] <Hobbsee> guys, calm down.
[13:14]  * apachelogger joins NCommander
[13:15]  * NCommander is happy we live in a padded cell, right apachelogger?
[13:15] <apachelogger> *nod*
[13:15]  * apachelogger gets some oxygen
[13:15] <apachelogger> litterally, I just turned on the oxygen promo song :P
[13:17] <NCommander> apachelogger, when is Riddell due to appear
[13:18] <Hobbsee> apachelogger: i fail to see how it's only a kubuntu issue - OO.o stuff is there (at the back) too.
[13:20] <NCommander> Hobbsee, its an issue because we litterially don't have the translations
[13:20] <NCommander> Hobbsee, OOo has their translations, they are just be processed at the end
[13:20] <Hobbsee> and are 18176 of them kubuntu-based?
[13:21] <NCommander> Hobbsee, no, 12 are :-)
[13:21] <NCommander> Hobbsee, those are the pot files in the queue
[13:22] <Hobbsee> i wonder if there's a primer on how the heck launchpad, langpacks, etc, work.
[13:22] <NCommander> dogfood with backtraces
[13:22] <NCommander> FOr a long time
[13:22]  * apachelogger reboots newly installed system
[13:24] <Hobbsee> so, why does https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kde4libs/+pots/kdelibs4 not show a german translation?  Because it hasn't been imported, orbecause no one's translated it?
[13:24] <NCommander> Both
[13:24] <NCommander> Normally the translation should have been pulled in from KDE
[13:24] <NCommander> But that broke sometime around the time intrepid opened
[13:24] <Hobbsee> did that get fixed?
[13:24] <NCommander> No
[13:24] <NCommander> Just POT importing
[13:25] <apachelogger> I am not sure
[13:25] <apachelogger> French seems pretty imported
[13:25] <NCommander> if it was, it would simply require a fresh upload of the KDE packages to get everything to import AFAIK
[13:25] <apachelogger> or the LP team did that
[13:25] <NCommander> apachelogger, I think the french translators did that
[13:25] <NCommander> Since French i18n in KDE reads 100%
[13:25] <NCommander> (the way I understand it, Rosetta pulls the po and pot files out of every package during upload
[13:26] <NCommander> If I understand the issue specifically
[13:26] <NCommander> The problem is that KDE uses a different PO format because Qt doesn't use gettext like everything else
[13:26] <NCommander> (that's why there is a seperate KDE PO format export option)
[13:26] <apachelogger> NCommander: unrelated to Qt
[13:27] <apachelogger> KDE uses an enhanced gettext version
[13:27] <NCommander> oh, ok
[13:27] <apachelogger> with superior support for plurals and string descriptions for translators and stuff
[13:27]  * NCommander is not a i18n expert by any strech of the imagination
[13:27] <NCommander> I know enough to explain how it works, but beyond that
[13:27]  * NCommander always felt gettext was a clever hack
[13:28] <NCommander> anyway, I think if memory serves, is what broke importing
[13:28] <NCommander> (exporting appears to work if you do it manually)
[13:28] <Hobbsee> right, so, kubuntu has had to throw away upstream translations, because launchpad wouldn't import them, and retranslate everything?
[13:28] <NCommander> Hobbsee, no, Launchpad has specific KDE support
[13:28] <NCommander> It has from the beginning
[13:29] <Hobbsee> ah
[13:29] <NCommander> Hobbsee, for some reason, around the time of LP 2.0, that import support broke, and translations stopped moving from source packages into rosetta
[13:30] <Hobbsee> NCommander: so what's happened after that?
[13:30] <NCommander> A few bugs and questions were filed
[13:30] <NCommander> But pretty much nothing, we couldn't do anything, it was a Launchpad issue that no one seemed interested in fixing
[13:31] <a|wen> ScottK: the traceback in bug 285313 makes absolutely no sense ... for once it receives the exception when reading a boolean field (powermanager.hasBattery) which in no way should lead to the rest of the trace; and even if the exception really happens there it's inside a generic try-exception ... could it be a borked traceback?
[13:31] <NCommander> As far as I can tell, despite the LP staff telling us otherwise, it seems KDE translation support is still completely hosed
[13:32] <apachelogger> NCommander: there is a long history of issues with LP and KDE l10n
[13:32] <NCommander> apachelogger, I personally agree with the fact that Rosetta is a hack
[13:33] <Hobbsee> NCommander: well, you'll get the fun of discussing it withthem at UDS, i expect...
[13:33] <apachelogger> :D
[13:33] <NCommander> And its compounded by the fact that the people who work on Rosetta seemed determined to keep KDE untranslated :-)
[13:33]  * apachelogger thinks it would be a lot easier if LP was FLOSS
[13:33] <Hobbsee> NCommander: also, mrevell is good for getting important issues accelerated in the LP team.
[13:33] <NCommander> Much
[13:33] <Hobbsee> doesn't always work - but often helps
[13:33] <NCommander> Hobbsee, so from the timespan of one LTS to the timespan of one release ;-)?
[13:33] <Hobbsee> heh
[13:34]  * NCommander admits this is bullshit
[13:35] <Hobbsee> i know, but you've got to a) yell at the right people, and b) try to figure out where it failed, to not let it happen again.
[13:35] <Hobbsee> unfortunately, kubuntu's always been a bit of "oh, well, everyone kinda knew about it, but didn't accelerate it up to the general development community enough"
[13:36] <apachelogger> I am wondering
[13:37]  * NCommander wonders if we'd get LP open any sooner if the Kubuntu developer community went on strike ....
[13:37] <apachelogger> bug 203349
[13:37] <NCommander> */evil
[13:37] <apachelogger> still not resolved
[13:38] <Hobbsee> NCommander: you have to ask that?  I doubt it.
[13:38] <Hobbsee> NCommander: how much do you honestly think people notice of kubuntu, if they're not on kubuntu-devel@, or in this channel?
[13:38] <NCommander> Hobbsee, well, I can dream ;-)
[13:38] <Hobbsee> that's part of one of the bigger problems.
[13:38] <NCommander> Hobbsee, I wasn't being serious, and I am aware
[13:39] <Hobbsee> same deal with xubuntu.
[13:40]  * a|wen really wishes for xubuntu that they aren't having the same kind of problems
[13:40] <NCommander> Hobbsee, Xubuntu and Kubuntu have 20,000 and 80,000 users respectively
[13:40] <NCommander> a|wen, no just the usual kind
[13:40] <a|wen> lucky them
[13:41] <Hobbsee> a|wen: i suspect they've got worse - they've got no paid developers - cody's paid to workon another area
[13:41] <NCommander> Hobbsee, I'm a Xubuntu developer
[13:41] <NCommander> We actually got through this cycle with no major crisis
[13:41] <Hobbsee> hurrah.
[13:41] <NCommander> Hobbsee, that being said, we've managed not to diverge from the Debian packaging (no 0ubuntuX), so our deltas are small
[13:42] <NCommander> And I am a member of pkg-xfce in Debian, so we really have tiny deltas ;-)
[13:42] <a|wen> NCommander: and then it got boring with no problems in xubuntu-land and you came here ;)
[13:42] <NCommander> a|wen, I cleared every FTBFS in Hardy for KDE
[13:42] <NCommander> Someone decided I should be made a member
[13:42] <NCommander> Go figure
[13:43]  * a|wen was joking
[13:44] <NCommander> a|wen, anyway, that's why Xubuntu usually does fine despite only having 2 (one and two halves of two developers) active
[13:45] <a|wen> NCommander: usually it's also a good idea ... low diffs to debian should be a goal wherever possible
[13:45] <NCommander> I think Xubuntu is the only one who's pulled that feat off
[13:45] <jussio1> wow, wow, I just have to say wow. I plugged my 3g phone into intrepid, it was so simple to connect. whoever wrote that should get a prize :D
[13:46] <NCommander> I know GNOME is usually 0ubuntuX
[13:46] <NCommander> o_o?
[13:46] <NCommander> that works?
[13:46] <jussio1> yep, on it now :)
[13:46] <a|wen> apart from the core-kde packages i think lot the other kde/qt packages are pretty close
[13:47] <jussio1> NCommander: I know ubuntu studio needs more devs, so if you have time ;) :P
[13:47] <NCommander> jussi01, I want to get a full set of team icons ;-)
[13:47] <NCommander> What does -stdio need
[13:47] <NCommander> ... studio
[13:48] <jussio1> NCommander: lots of things, packagers, a kernel hacker or 2 - join #ubuntustudio-devel for more, or grab persia themuso or luisbg
[13:49] <NCommander> jussi01, I fixed liunx-lpia
[13:49] <NCommander> :-)
[13:50] <jussio1> NCommander: need more help on the RT kernel if you have expertise ;)
[14:25] <NCommander> nixternal, ping?
[14:25] <ScottK> a|wen: No, I don't think the traceback is borked, but that's why I was confused.
[14:26] <ScottK> a|wen: I have to head out for most of the day.  Could you ask the guy to stop Guidance, start it in a Konsole shell and then paste any output into the bug?
[14:27] <a|wen> ScottK: i'll do that
[14:27]  * ScottK envisions blog posts and Slahsdot articles on the perils of using proprietary development tools in FOSS projects (re the translations mess).
[14:27] <ScottK> a|wen: Thanks.
[14:28] <NCommander> ScottK, well, at least people know who to blame
[14:28] <ScottK> Yep.
[14:28] <ScottK> Fundamentally this isn't our problem (although we get the fallout).
[14:29] <ScottK> We have a pretty darn good KDE4 desktop and we should release it.
[14:30] <apachelogger> I just said in a query that we could just ship kde-l10n-*
[14:30] <ScottK> If the translation mess isn't fixed and it's fixed later, they can respin the CDs.
[14:30] <apachelogger> ScottK: they don't want to do
[14:30] <apachelogger> too much work apparently
[14:30] <ScottK> apachelogger: Then they should get the Rosetta devs to peddle faster so they don't have to.
[14:30] <ScottK> the/thy
[14:30] <ScottK> Urghh. they
[14:30] <apachelogger> good point
[14:31] <NCommander> We could do a ports-like release
[14:31] <NCommander> Xubuntu PowerPC is being built unoffically
[14:31] <Hobbsee> a copmletely uncertified one.
[14:31] <NCommander> Hobbsee, better than no release.
[14:31] <Hobbsee> does canonical offer support for kubuntu ones regardless?
[14:31] <ScottK> I think this is the point where the Kubuntu community devs just need to look at Canonical and say: "Your problem.  Fix it."
[14:31] <NCommander> ScottK, agreed
[14:31] <apachelogger> +1
[14:31] <NCommander> Does anyone have Riddell's cell phone or something?
[14:32] <ScottK> apachelogger: It sucks, but it's really a problem only Canonical can fix.
[14:32] <NCommander> I think we have the following options
[14:32] <NCommander> 1. Release regardless with the kde-i10n translations (Depends: release team/archive team allowing this to fly
[14:32] <NCommander> 2. No offical CD image, and maybe spin one ourselves with ubuntu-cdimage
[14:33] <NCommander> 3. No CD release, and then just get things fixed via SRU for intrepid so those who need/want it can have it
[14:33] <NCommander> 2 looks appealing
[14:33] <apachelogger> 1+2
[14:33] <apachelogger> 3 isn't an option IMHO
[14:33] <ScottK> Agreed
[14:33] <NCommander> apachelogger, its just there for completeness
[14:33] <apachelogger> aye
[14:33] <NCommander> apachelogger, I'm not sure we're going to get one to fly
[14:33] <ScottK> I vote 1 and push Canoncical to respin when Rosetta's fixed.
[14:33] <ScottK> Gotta run.
[14:34] <Tm_T> ye
[14:34] <NCommander> apachelogger, who wants to run ubuntu-cdimage?
[14:34]  * Hobbsee wonders how launchpad will cope with that
[14:34] <Hobbsee> NCommander: it's more a question of...what will then be done with the resulting images?
[14:34] <NCommander> Hobbsee, host then on kubuntu.org
[14:34] <NCommander> I'm told that at least on xubuntu.org we had more than enough space and bandwidth for that for -ports
[14:34] <NCommander> (granted, this isn't ports, but ...)
[14:35] <Hobbsee> to build them offsite, and put them there?
[14:35]  * Hobbsee wonders what elmo will say.
[14:36] <apachelogger> I know what slangasek will say "I don't think this is very appropriate" ;-)
[14:36] <NCommander> apachelogger, they're all going to say that.
[14:36] <NCommander> In response
[14:36] <NCommander> "Its not very appropriate that Rosetta been broken for months"
[14:37] <apachelogger> I am wondering if we could use the suse build service structure to roll CDs
[14:37] <apachelogger> now that would seriously piss people off :P
[14:37] <NCommander> apachelogger, SuSE build service requires RPM based distributions I thought
[14:38] <apachelogger> it can build deb based packages as well
[14:38] <ScottK> NCommander: Nope.  It'll build Debian/Ubuntu packages, but I dunna if it'll do it from Debian source
[14:38] <NCommander> I rather just use ubuntu-cdimage
[14:38] <apachelogger> ScottK: no
[14:38] <apachelogger> needs some changes
[14:38] <NCommander> Who wants to call Riddell?
[14:39] <apachelogger> I think we just need to remove dsc and diff.gz and store debian/ next to the orig.tar
[14:39] <NCommander> http://jriddell.org/contact.html
[14:40]  * apachelogger is in a valley and doesn't have any reception ;-)
[14:41] <a|wen> apachelogger: IP phones ... we know you are online ;)
[14:41] <apachelogger> stdin, seaLne: pling
[14:41] <apachelogger> a|wen: would work
[14:41]  * apachelogger is wondering how to pay
[14:42] <NCommander> SOmeone install skype
[14:43] <a|wen> but what shall we tell Riddell ... that translations still broken, please appear online?
[14:44] <NCommander> a|wen, emergency release meeting
[14:44] <NCommander> Ok
[14:44] <NCommander> to call, I think I dial 011-44-*riddells number*
[14:44] <Hobbsee> do you have kubuntu council quorum?
[14:44] <NCommander> checking
[14:45] <apachelogger> Nightrose is snuggeling I guess
[14:45] <apachelogger> wth
[14:45] <NCommander> o_o;
[14:45] <a|wen> NCommander: yeah, it's +44
[14:45] <apachelogger> nixternal, seele, yuriy, ping
[14:46] <a|wen> NCommander: you probably want to strip the first 0 off his number to dial
[14:46] <NCommander> Well, if we don't have quorum
[14:46] <NCommander> Its pointless
[14:46] <NCommander> It's 4/6 we need for quorum, right?
[14:46] <Hobbsee> You can certainly discuss possible solutions with Riddell, though.
[14:47] <NCommander> I suggest we vote
[14:47] <NCommander> Call or don't call ;-)
[14:47]  * NCommander looks for his calling card while he's at it
[14:48] <apachelogger> we also can call nixternal and Nightrose
[14:48] <apachelogger> jr probably also got seele's number
[14:48] <NCommander> so who is getting called first?
[14:48] <apachelogger> question is, do we get them online
[14:49] <apachelogger> NCommander: Riddell, he is the wisest man I know
[14:49] <NCommander> So how'd we figure out that I am calling?
[14:49] <apachelogger> we could also call mark
[14:49] <NCommander> ...
[14:49]  * NCommander runs in fear
[14:50] <NCommander> I'll let Riddell make that call
[14:50] <NCommander> ....
[14:50] <NCommander> Hrm
[14:50] <apachelogger> fair enough
[14:50] <NCommander> Probably a poor choice of words
[14:50]  * Hobbsee guesses mark would say "talk to riddell"
[14:50]  * apachelogger goes smoking
[14:50] <apachelogger> too much stress
[14:50] <NCommander> ok
[14:50] <NCommander> Calling riddell
[14:51] <apachelogger> ~np
[14:51] <kubotu> apachelogger is listening to "Call On Me" by Eric Prydz
[14:51]  * apachelogger goes smoking
[14:51] <NCommander> Sorry, that became calling riddel after buying a new calling card
[14:52] <NCommander> "You have insufficent points to call this number"
[14:52] <NCommander> brb
[14:52] <NCommander> To the store!
[14:53] <seaLne> whats the problem with calling riddell?
[14:53] <NCommander> seaLne, I don't have a calling card
[14:53] <Hobbsee> seaLne: lack of credit
[14:53] <NCommander> and I'm not being rated 2 dollars a minute by my phone company to call without one
[14:54] <seaLne> want me to txt him?
[14:54] <NCommander> seaLne, tell him to call my cell, +1-917-716-2585, I can explain to him the issues to save a lot fo time
[14:54] <seaLne> is it just pretty please come on irc rosetta fuckedness?
[14:55] <NCommander> that too, but the avoid ;-)
[14:55] <Hobbsee> seaLne: yup
[14:55] <NCommander> *above
[15:01] <seaLne> (btw i txted him a few min ago)
[15:08] <apachelogger> seaLne: thank you
[15:15] <NCommander> I have returned with the Yendorian Express Calling Card!
[15:17] <NCommander> calling
[15:17] <NCommander> Riddell didn't pay his phone bill
[15:20] <seaLne> NCommander: i thought he just used a pay as you go phone
[15:20] <NCommander> "The party has insuffient funds to complete this call"
[15:20] <NCommander> :-)
[15:20] <NCommander> (with a British accent, so it wasn't on my end)
[15:21] <seaLne> well thats nothing to do with riddell's end as it dosen't cost to receive
[15:21] <NCommander> You brits have a nice calling plan ;.;
[15:21] <NCommander> Its possible his pay as you go disallows calls from international numbers
[15:21] <seaLne> not really you get more minutes but pay both ways
[15:22] <seaLne> nah
[15:23] <NCommander> I'm retrying
[15:23] <NCommander> Its ringing
[15:23] <NCommander> was rining
[15:25] <NCommander> He has his landlind, should I try calling that?
[15:29] <NCommander> I got him
[15:29] <NCommander> He's on his way
[15:30] <NCommander> apachelogger, ping
[15:30] <apachelogger> NCommander: yus?
[15:30] <a|wen> NCommander: good job
[15:30] <NCommander> Got Riddell
[15:30] <NCommander> He's on his way to his computer
[15:30] <apachelogger> \o/
[15:30] <NCommander> only took ringing him about 5 times
[15:30]  * NCommander has acquired skill "International Calling"
[15:31] <apachelogger> that reminds on sims
[15:32] <Riddell> afternoon friends
[15:32] <Riddell> anyone looked into what the problem is?
[15:33] <NCommander> Riddell, launchpad
[15:33] <NCommander> Rosetta
[15:34] <NCommander> apachelogger, care to give him the 411?
[15:34] <apachelogger> if I would remember
[15:34] <apachelogger> there is a 40k strings import queue for rosetta
[15:34] <apachelogger> apparently it only includes the templates, not the translations though
[15:35] <Riddell> where do you find that?
[15:35] <apachelogger> NCommander: do you have the url?
[15:35]  * apachelogger closed konqueror
[15:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+imports
[15:36] <apachelogger> now, on top of that... the LP guys are currently on their way to a LP sprint
[15:36] <NCommander> apachelogger, not off hand
[15:36] <NCommander> Riddell, only the pot files are being imported, not the po, so no translations
[15:36] <NCommander> As far as we can tell, PO files are getting exported, so if we can get the translations into Launchpad, they will end up in the lang-packs
[15:37] <Riddell> NCommander: what makes you say that po files aren't being imported?
[15:37] <NCommander> Riddell, that we have entire languages that are translated upstream, but have 0 translations in Rosetta is a pretty clear sign
[15:38] <Riddell> only if our pots are correct
[15:38] <apachelogger> well, they could be stuck in the import queue
[15:38] <NCommander> Riddell, as far as I can tell they are, and actively imported
[15:38] <NCommander> apachelogger, no, they aren't, I checked, only pots are in the queue
[15:38] <apachelogger> nice
[15:39] <Riddell> in the worst of cases we should be able just to upload language-pack-kde-xx with .pos directly copied from kde-l10n-xx so don't panic
[15:39] <NCommander> That's what we were thinking, but I'm worried then when rosetta pushes another set of language-packs, those will get clobbered
[15:39] <apachelogger> Riddell: wouldn't they get superseded with SRUs of language-pack*
[15:39] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes, we'd need to check any suck uploads before they happen
[15:40] <apachelogger> Riddell: I considered clearing out language-pack-kde-xx and making it depend on kde-l10n-xx which ships the upstream pos
[15:41] <apachelogger> I guess it would be easier to just have them export nothing than check every upload
[15:44] <NCommander> apachelogger, will having the kde-i18n-* packages just work?
[15:45] <apachelogger> NCommander: no, they require changes, currently they don't install the po files
[15:46] <NCommander> Riddell, what can be done so we can get Rosetta actually been fixed, its been like this for months
[15:50] <Riddell> well, french seems to be working
[15:50] <Riddell> which does suggest it's a problem with rosetta rather than anything with our template setup
[15:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: as said, it's only the po importing
[15:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: french seems to be mostly done by the french launchpad team
[15:51] <Riddell> I just want to be sure because I go being grumpy at the rosetta people :)
[15:51] <apachelogger> sec
[15:52] <Riddell> ubiquity starts up in oxygen now, is that your doing apachelogger?
[15:52] <apachelogger> Oo
[15:52] <apachelogger> no
[15:53] <apachelogger> didn't last time I tired
[15:53] <Riddell> hmm, doesn't seem to be a new version
[15:53]  * apachelogger noticed an issue with the release notes link placement, so decided to not change anything
[15:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kde4libs/+pots/kdelibs4
[15:54] <apachelogger> in comparision to http://l10n.kde.org/stats/gui/stable-kde4/package/kdelibs/
[15:56] <steveire> Hi. Is kubuntu membership for ubuntu contributors only, or is it also granted to upstream (kde) contributors?
[15:56]  * NCommander points steveire to Riddell 
[15:57] <Riddell> I don't think we're considered the matter, but I think the assumption is for contributions to kubuntu
[15:57] <apachelogger> steveire: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Membership
[15:57] <Riddell> steveire: why would you want it?
[15:58] <apachelogger> Riddell: kubuntu-membership is also ubuntu-membership, so we could only increase the requirements I guess
[15:58] <Riddell> contributions to kubuntu is defined quite widely of course, including user help et al
[15:58] <apachelogger> *nod*
[16:01] <NCommander> Riddell, anyway, we do need to get this in before the CD's freeze
[16:01] <NCommander> apachelogger, how hard are these changes to the kde-i18n-* packages?
[16:01] <a|wen> apachelogger: pretty much looks like some languages are simply missing (eg. german / norwegian bokmål) :/ ... can it be due to an import failing?
[16:01] <Riddell> kde-i18n-xx isn't used, kde-l10n-xx is only used to feed rosetta
[16:02] <Riddell> we'd need a script to copy the .po files from kde-l10n-xx source to language-pack-kde-base-xx source
[16:02] <apachelogger> NCommander: -i18n- is KDE 3 - l10n- is KDE 4
[16:02] <steveire> Ah right. I'm just interested. There's not many irish ubuntu blogs on planet.ubuntu.com, but I've just started volunteering with a charity (camara.ie) sending ubuntu on recycled computers to africa. I think it'd be good to get it on there.
[16:03] <Riddell> steveire: that sounds like excellent loco activity and would be likely to get you an ubuntu membership
[16:03] <apachelogger> NCommander, Riddell: shouldn't be much work, but we need to make sure further lang-packs uploaded don't supersed, and break it again
[16:03] <apachelogger> that would be pretty annoying as well
[16:03] <NCommander> apachelogger, we could add an epoch. I don't understand why we use Rosetta translations over upstreams ...
[16:03] <apachelogger> I'll write a script for the po copying later today
[16:03] <apachelogger> NCommander: me neither dude, me neither
[16:04] <steveire> The ubuntu-ie is already tied in with them, and camara gives ubuntu-ie some office space, but I don't think it's an official loco yet
[16:04] <Riddell> don't add an epoch
[16:05] <NCommander> Riddell, can we get the langpacks for kde to stop being exported?
[16:05] <Riddell> NCommander: i expect so, but if it's just slow imports it would be sensible to just not make language packs until they are imported
[16:05] <apachelogger> steveire: there is a german project doing exactly the same http://www.linux4afrika.de/
[16:05] <steveire> Got to go, later...
[16:06] <NCommander> Riddell, we'd be doing this through out all of Intrepid until Rosetta is fixed. Given that Rosetta been broken since LP 2.0 ....
[16:06] <apachelogger> a|wen: all possible, but I think the >300 untranslated ones for the other languages can't be all that correct either
[16:07] <a|wen> apachelogger: no, that looks strange too ... danish is 100% in upstream and 80% in rosetta (but at least thats an increase)
[16:07] <NCommander> a|wen, want to be the danish translators did that on their own?
[16:08] <apachelogger> I doubt that
[16:08] <apachelogger> NCommander: some languages got ~300 untranslated string
[16:08] <apachelogger> s
[16:08] <NCommander> apachelogger, probably some of it was salvaged from KDE3 too
[16:08] <apachelogger> not that much
[16:08] <NCommander> translation + salavage?
[16:08] <apachelogger> hm
[16:09] <a|wen> NCommander: it increased dramatical after the rosetta people told they fixed it ... so something changed just about that import
[16:09] <apachelogger> on a technical level ... shouldn't the LP strings be completely removed before importing KDE 4?
[16:09] <apachelogger> just saying, otherwise it might collect junk
[16:09]  * NCommander reframes from calling Rosetta junk
[16:09] <apachelogger> in fact, knowing how rosetta doesn't work very logical, I think it is collecting junk
[16:10] <apachelogger> anywho
[16:11] <a|wen> but then, why don't we just quit rosetta and use pure upstream translations ... i really don't see the point for rosetta for kde packages
[16:11] <apachelogger> Riddell: what's it gonna be fore Intrepid? lang-pack depending on kde-l10n, or kde-l10n .pos copied over to lang-pack?
[16:11]  * NCommander votes option 2
[16:11] <apachelogger> a|wen: languages which are not supported by KDE (yet)
[16:12] <apachelogger> more of a point on improving canonical's deployment possabilities as they can easily increase the supported languages for new clients
[16:12] <apachelogger> at least that is how I understand it
[16:13] <a|wen> that of course makes some sort of sense
[16:13] <apachelogger> it still doesn't justify the import of translated strings to alter them for no good reason with no good QA
[16:13] <a|wen> right now it's not increasing though :/
[16:14] <a|wen> apachelogger: is it upstream over rosetta or rosetta over upstream when importing ?
[16:15] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[16:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you know?
[16:15] <Riddell> apachelogger: kde-l10n-xx has no mos, they need to be in language-pack-kde-xx-base
[16:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, we can make kde-l10n-xx build mos
[16:16] <apachelogger> then again if we switch back to lang-pack for jaunty we would need a conflicts/replaces
[16:16] <Riddell> they won't get through the buildds
[16:17] <apachelogger> ok, copying it is
[16:28] <NCommander> apachelogger, can I help :-)?
[16:28] <apachelogger> almost done :P
[16:28] <NCommander> ;.;
[16:29] <apachelogger> well, maybe not, but we have a couple of scripts for KDE releases, just need to copynpaste and modify a bit
[16:40] <ryanakca> apachelogger: were you still working on making a new wiki theme?
[16:42] <ryanakca> also, could anybody with a minute please upload some pretty KDE4 screenshots here https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuIntrepidWebsite/KDE4Screenshots ?
[16:43] <apachelogger> ryanakca: I am pretty busy lately
[16:44] <ryanakca> apachelogger: no problem :)
[16:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: is there no lang-pack package for ptbr?
[17:08] <a|wen> apachelogger: there isn't any, neither in my hardy or intrepid install
[17:08] <apachelogger> pretty lame
[17:08] <apachelogger> maybe it is just named differently
[17:10] <a|wen> apachelogger: ptbr is potuguese for brasillian ... i suspect that they simply use the pt (generic portuguese) package for that too
[17:11] <apachelogger> in that case the lame applies
[17:12]  * apachelogger needs a faster connection
[17:49]  * apachelogger has a hard time handling the special cases
[18:33] <txwikinger> apachelogger: Do you want another one?
[18:44] <Riddell> apachelogger: ptbr is part of pt
[18:44] <Riddell> likewise for zhcn, zhtw are zh and engb is in en
[18:56] <ScottK-palm> Anything get sorted on language packs yet?
[18:57]  * ScottK-palm is at a college admissions fair with #1 daughter. 
[18:57] <ScottK-palm> I'm pretty sure she'll skip the one college I actually suggested she might want to consider.
[18:58] <ScottK-palm> nixternal: Did you ever get a handle on what was going wrong with the HAL call in the g-p-m bug?
[18:58] <nixternal> not really...throwing in the try: there would only hide the crash I think
[18:59] <nixternal> I can do the calls once I am logged in just fine
[18:59] <nixternal> I just think HAL isn't catching up when the crash occurs..I can't recreate that crash at all
[18:59] <nixternal> I was having another g-p-m crash, but that isn't happening anymore either
[18:59] <ScottK-palm> Hmm. Maybe it's hardware specific?
[18:59] <nixternal> could be...I am on x86
[19:00] <ScottK-palm> I did fix it up not to crash in a couple of spots if HAL is completely missing.
[19:01] <ScottK-palm> So that's probably what you were having.
[19:01] <apachelogger> Riddell: ok, I think the script is ready, doing a test spin right now
[19:02] <ScottK-palm> I guess if it's a timing thing though it wouldn't hurt to try/except and then not crash.
[19:02] <ScottK-palm> apachelogger: Is this for upstream translations?
[19:03] <apachelogger> ScottK-palm: yes, we will copy the .pos from kde-l10n-xx to the associated language-pack packages
[19:05] <ScottK-palm> Yummy.
[19:05] <ryanakca> ScottK-palm: random offtopic question, are colleges and universities considered the same down in the states? Up here colleges are more practical while universities are more theoretical... mind you, lots of people over here end up doing a bit of both methinks.
[19:06] <ScottK-palm> Dear Kubuntu translators: Thank you for all your hard work. unfortunately we had to throw it all away because LP was broken.
[19:07] <ScottK-palm> ryanakca: The terms are often used interchangably, but Universities are bigger and more diversified.
[19:08] <ScottK-palm> Universities are usually made up of topic specific colleges. independent colleges are generally smaller and more focused.
[19:09] <ryanakca> ScottK-palm: ah, ok :)
[19:10] <ScottK-palm> Then there are community colleges that offer two year degrees and tend to be very practical.
[19:11]  * ScottK-palm recalls somebody recently blogging about giving a rosetta lecture and scaring potential translators away.
[19:12] <ryanakca> ah, ok... I guess community colleges are what we consider college up here, and then the rest of the institutions = our universities
[19:14] <ScottK-palm> Where the English would say "Go to University", Americans would say "Go to College".
[19:14] <ScottK-palm> Dunnu where Canada falls between those.
[19:14] <ScottK-palm> Dunnu/Dunno
[19:15] <ryanakca> we say university :)
[19:17] <ScottK-palm> It's seemed to me when I've been in Canada it's really hard to predict if Canadian usage will be more American or more English in any given instance.
[19:19] <ryanakca> *nod* might vary by region... I haven't lived outside south eastern Ontario, so I can't really say :)
[19:19] <ryanakca> for the website, should we accept only screenshots of the default desktop, or can we accept customized desktops?
[19:22] <ScottK-palm> I haven't lived in .ca, but I've visited lots of places.
[19:22] <smarter> if we accept customized desktops screenshots, they should be easily reproducable so that users don't get frustrated because they can't do something like that
[19:22] <ScottK-palm> I was in western Ontario last month.
[19:23] <ScottK-palm> smarter: That's a good idea. "Customized screenshots must come with a recipe."
[19:23] <smarter> iirc, kde-look has a section for screenshots, so they could be posted here with instructions on howto achieve that and then linked from kubuntu.org
[19:24] <ScottK-palm> I like that.
[19:25] <ryanakca> smarter: http://blog.ryanak.ca/archives/uncategorized/13 ... ask them to post to kde-look instead of the wiki?
[19:26] <ryanakca> Posting them to KDE-Look would promote Kubuntu... but it would also mean that people have to create another account. Up to you two :)
[19:26] <ScottK-palm> Not /me.
[19:27] <smarter> I think a kde-look account would be worth it, since it's also a kde-apps, cli-apps, and tons of other sites account :P
[19:28] <smarter> they could all put something like [Kubuntu Website] in their screenshots so that you can easily find them
[19:28] <ScottK-palm> Maybe wiki.kubuntu.org needs a section on connecting with the larger KDE community.
[19:30] <apachelogger> ryanakca: we (KDE) are working on that :P
[19:30] <apachelogger> one day you will only need one account to do everything
[19:31] <ryanakca> ScottK-palm: *nod*... I think the wiki theme will be redone eventually... someone in Kubuntu should have write access to the theme at least, we've been waiting for close to three months for the broken documentation tab to be removed/fixed.
[19:31] <ScottK-palm> So is Kubuntu Ubuntu with KDE or KDE built on Ubuntu?
[19:32] <apachelogger> it is Kubuntu - KDE for Humans
[19:32] <ryanakca> I'd say Kubuntu is the Ubuntu base + KDE...
[19:32] <ryanakca> apachelogger: oooh, that's a good slogan :)
[19:32]  * apachelogger notes that using Ubuntu in any kind of description is a) confusing b) bad marketing c) more confusing
[19:32]  * ryanakca shrugs as for the definition of Kubuntu... 
[19:32] <ScottK-palm> apachelogger: As long as they speak English .....
[19:33] <ryanakca> Kubuntu - KDE for Anglophones
[19:33] <ScottK-palm> :-)
[19:33] <ScottK-palm> Or Danish apparently.
[19:34] <smarter> according to the Kubuntu.org FAQ, it means "towards humanity" (:
[19:34] <smarter> and free in another language
[19:34] <apachelogger> hm
[19:34] <apachelogger> Kubuntu, the bastard of Ubuntu, which is a bastard of Debian, which is a bastard of GNU
[19:34] <apachelogger> Kubuntu - GNU for the masses
[19:34]  * smarter notes that kubuntu.org faq is awefully outdated
[19:35] <apachelogger> that also ensures that we get supported by RMS, then again KDE is evilsoftware so that might not work out after all :S
[19:35] <apachelogger> smarter: FAQs are always ;-)
[19:35] <smarter> Kubuntu - gears everywhere
[19:35] <apachelogger> Kubuntu - gears everywhere
[19:35] <apachelogger> copypo.rb:108:in `mkdir': File exists - /home/me/s/uploads/zh (Errno::EEXIST)
[19:35] <apachelogger> it broke
[19:36] <ScottK-palm> See you all later.  Good luck on translations.
[19:37] <smarter> Kubuntu - Like a Rolling Gears
[19:37] <smarter> *Gear
[19:37] <smarter> or s/a//
[19:37] <apachelogger> Kubuntu - We love clocks
[19:38] <txwikinger> Linux kernel needs a better i/o scheduling
[19:39]  * txwikinger 's contribution to clocks
[19:40] <apachelogger> again?
[19:40] <txwikinger> translations? what kind of translations
[19:40] <apachelogger> the kernel gets a new ioscheduler every 6 months
[19:40] <txwikinger> well.. I have never seen an improvement
[19:41] <txwikinger> I have a dual-core cpu and run a vbox... Unfortunately the vbox hoggs all my disk
[19:41] <apachelogger> do you have an io schedule clock palsmoid?
[19:41] <txwikinger> sure ... and everything under 6 lines :D
[19:41] <apachelogger> schweet
[19:41] <apachelogger> copypo.rb:71:in `chdir': No such file or directory - ca (Errno::ENOENT)
[19:41] <apachelogger> it broke again
[19:42] <txwikinger> looks like ruby
[19:42] <txwikinger> what is that?
[19:43] <apachelogger> the fancy script that will save us from drowning in lp screwups
[19:43] <apachelogger> in theory that is
[19:43] <apachelogger> as a matter of fact this script got more control structures than any other other I ever wrote :P
[19:43] <apachelogger> that makes it buggy as hell
[19:44] <txwikinger> well... never done a Riemann-Schneider Diagram?
[19:45] <apachelogger> that already sounds boring
[19:45] <apachelogger> huh
[19:45] <apachelogger> it is working again
[19:45] <apachelogger> \o/
[19:45] <apachelogger> I think the script is finished
[19:45] <txwikinger> maybe it was the buggy i/o scheduler ;p
[19:46] <apachelogger> stupid scheduler
[19:46] <apachelogger> Riddell: are you around?
[19:46]  * txwikinger needs more than one computer
[19:47] <apachelogger> we all do at times
[20:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://aplg.kollide.net/kubuntu/scripts/copypo.rb
[20:47] <vorian> afternoonish
[20:48] <crimsun> same!
[20:48] <vorian> hey crimsun
[20:48] <vorian> how goes it?
[20:48] <crimsun> vorian: not bad, yourself?
[20:49] <yuriy> apachelogger: pong
[20:49] <vorian> not bad at all
[20:49] <vorian> just kickin back
[21:50] <jjesse> hello from my dell mini 9 running kubuntu intrepid :)
[21:56] <ScottK> Hello jjesse.
[21:56] <jjesse> hello ScottK
[21:56]  * ryanakca loves with irssi segfaults :)
[21:58] <jjesse> boarding plane to houston, wonder how long the bqattery on this littleguy will last
[21:58] <jjesse> hopefully the entire flight
[22:43] <a|wen> g'evening fellows
[22:44] <jussi01> heya a|wen
[23:05]  * ScottK bzr committ's his blog to Planet Ubuntu.
[23:12]  * a|wen boots/tests the newest daily-live cd in his vm
[23:23] <ScottK> a|wen: Did you send your kdeadmin patch upstream?  That was a good catch to fix a bad bug.
[23:24] <a|wen> ScottK: after fixing it i found a commit (almost similar to my patch) in the kde-svn... so that should be good
[23:25] <ScottK> a|wen: Was it 4.1 branch or trunk?
[23:25] <Riddell> ScottK: yay
[23:25] <ScottK> That really ought to get into 4.1.3
[23:28] <a|wen> ScottK: checking...
[23:33] <a|wen> ScottK: commit 864850 in branch kde/4.1
[23:36] <a|wen> huh ... the "Release Notes" link on the first page of the installer does absolutely nothing
[23:37] <a|wen> was apachelogger looking at ubiquity, and was this one of the issues being looked at?
[23:38] <Riddell> a|wen: he was but I don't think he was looking at it
[23:38] <Riddell> fixes welcome :)
[23:41] <ScottK> a|wen: Great.
[23:42]  * a|wen graps the ubiquity source
[23:57] <blizzz> what is the reason acitivities cannot be used in intrepid?
[23:59] <Riddell> activities?