=== emma_ is now known as emma === TeLLuS_ is now known as TeLLuS [01:39] * a|wen will has a patch ready for bug 278218 ... just needs to testbuild+test it [01:39] Launchpad bug 278218 in kdeadmin "KDE4: KUser does not create new user's directory" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278218 [02:01] http://awen.dk/packages/kdeadmin_4.1.2-0ubuntu2.debdiff <- Riddell, apachelogger, ScottK if any of you have time [02:25] Riddell: wooo! txwikinger if you want to document, I can provide some help [02:25] Documenting is not the problem... finding the information that needs to be documented is [02:26] However, yes... give me some hints [02:26] there is plenty to be documented in KDE 4 and of course Kubuntu [02:26] we use DocBook/XML....very easy markup language, probably easier than HTML in many ways [02:26] or at least the same [02:27] https://wiki.kubuntu.org/DocumentationTeam [02:27] there is some good info there to get you started I think [02:27] well. I know LaTeX, which is also a SGML [02:27] if you know LaTeX, then DocBook will be easy for you [02:30] Why is konversation always opening FF? [02:30] * txwikinger suspects a Gnome conspiracy [02:31] I have been using Firefox a lot lately....there are some really useful greasemonkey scripts out there [02:31] though Konqueror will hopefully have greasemonkey support in the near future [02:32] nixternal: you just discovered greasemonkey? [02:32] nixternal: thats not the only useful extension that firefox has [02:32] kind of...this is the first time I have used Firefox for more than 2 minutes [02:32] Well greasemoney is cute, but I want it on Konq [02:33] FF is far too heavyweight [02:33] someone was writing a plugin for konqi that would allow you to use greasemonkey scripts [02:33] i prefer it [02:33] cool [02:33] i find konq to be more like ie [02:33] bah [02:33] ie? [02:33] what is that? [02:33] sure, dolphin is now the default filemanager [02:33] must be that crack [02:34] coreymon77: for n00bs it is...I don't use dolphin at all [02:34] ie=internet explorer [02:34] nothing beats the cli for file management anyways [02:34] * txwikinger hasn't used ie for 50 years or so [02:34] well.. maybe 5 [02:34] as in, it is browser, file manger etc all in one [02:35] it still usesless memory than FF [02:35] me would not be able to open 60 FFs [02:35] and you would do that because? [02:36] because I always have around 60 Konqs open [02:36] okay... [02:36] Don't ask me why.. probably 2nd thermodynamical theory [02:36] hahahaha [02:38] * txwikinger found a cool imap lib for python [02:42] nixternal: Did you figure out how to use python apps inside systemsettings? [02:43] haven't looked at it....was a bit busy today preparing for a presentation tomorrow [02:43] totally forgot about the presentation until about 3pm today [02:45] "KDE is not a desktop environment." [02:45] huh? this is a quote by aseigo I just found on OS News [02:45] g'nite, see you all tomorrow [02:45] g'nite a|wen [02:45] tomorrow? [02:46] ok.. does he say what it is? [02:46] no [02:46] txwikinger: not literally, but like in post-sleep [02:50] what is this ssdp protocol? [02:51] Ah zeroconf is doing that [02:52] * txwikinger was rather wondering that nixternal has a presentation tomorrow than seeing a|wen tonorrow [03:01] http://www.flickr.com/photos/bradmcmahon/2943240878/ <- this is what happens when you mix beer and nerds...you get jono and I cutting a rug at a club! [03:01] Is that your line dance? [03:02] hahaha ya [03:04] I think I need to get my boots... an all because of KDE [04:46] KDE4 comes with an universum [04:51] Every time I log into KDE4, it doubles the number o open apps [05:46] a|wen: Looking at your kdebase patchnow. === |Aryn| is now known as aRyn [06:25] emma: Please check your network connection. You're ping ponging in and out of the channel. [06:25] a|wen: Uploaded. Thank you for your contribution to Kubuntu (that was an important bug to fix). [07:01] a|wen: I'm too tired to understand why Bug #285313 is still happening. If you take a look, I'd appreciate it. I'm off to bed. [07:01] Launchpad bug 285313 in guidance-power-manager "python2.5 crashed with Exception in _initHAL()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285313 === eagleagle is now known as eagles0513875 [10:03] yuriy: I have no apparmor [10:04] oh my [10:05] a|wen: did anyone sponsor yet? [10:05] hm [10:09] Riddell: just rsynced the live cd ... About Kubuntu is not german, Install is not german, apparently the Live session doesn't use germany as country/region which makes my clock ungermanish, add/remove software is not german either, in fact all of adept is not translated, besides the base KDE strings \o/ reminds me on my early contacts with halfway translated GNOME, for some reason the systemsettings window title is actually [10:09] "System Settings" instead of german translation [10:09] * apachelogger starts the installation [10:13] "Step 1 of 6" not translated, "Release Notes" not translated, switching to Step 2 magically translates the string (bug), minor issue is that the keyboard layouts are not translated [10:13] knetworkmanager isn't speaking any german at all [10:15] txwikinger: creating attachments using a file extension would be useful, btw [10:50] apachelogger, poke me if I can help you with my restricted skills I've got a bit time today, I'm just learning for my exam tommorrow but I can't do that the hole time so ... let me know. === eagle3 is now known as eagles0513875 [11:05] emonkey: fix bug 284915 :P [11:05] Launchpad bug 284915 in kdebase-runtime "Khelpcenter missing docs list" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284915 [11:07] hm [11:07] öhm apachelogger no idea how but if you think that's in my range of skills ... [11:07] sometimes I think bug reporter report duplicates just to annoy the shit out of me [11:07] emonkey: I am not sure if I think that :P [11:07] I see :) [11:09] waaaaah [11:09] so many bugs [11:09] * apachelogger smashes head against the wall [11:10] don't otherwise I've to file a bug for fixing your head [11:11] "All in all it's just another brick in the wall" [11:11] hi :) [11:11] hr :) hi smarter [11:12] Riddell: KDM in newly installed system is english [11:12] * apachelogger goes lunching while KDE starts [11:15] lunch? /me is looking for his breakfest ... [11:29] wth [11:29] Riddell: after the installation the complete desktop is english [11:35] Riddell: I clicked the missing lang icon, installed german just to be told that I have to manually select the language, so I got to the language settings and click select system language, select german, relogin, still english?!, go to the language kcm again and try 'add language' not much of german in sight [11:35] may I say that this is about as bad as robin trying to add/remove xchat in mandriva one [11:38] * apachelogger is not yet giving up [11:38] I go to add/remove and search for german in german => no matches \o/ [11:38] lets try german in english => no matches \o/ [11:39] *google* [11:40] doesn't help [11:40] at this point an 'advanced user who is used to windows' would probably give up [11:41] * apachelogger installs kde-l10n-de [11:41] via apt-get, just make that clear, adept didn't exaclty help with my problem [11:42] oh, now I can select german, hooray, let's also set the country [11:42] nothing happenes :| [11:42] *relogin* [11:43] still talking english [11:44] language-pack-kde-de is installed? [11:44] it is [11:45] though as a normal user I wouldn't know because adept refuses to give me such information [11:45] anyway [11:45] I give up [11:45] the CD was partly german [11:46] well, one thing I can try [11:46] *reboot* [11:48] didn't help [11:48] hey apachelogger [11:50] yo NCommander [11:50] apachelogger, having fun with the Kubuntu translation packages ;-)? [11:50] yes, Kubuntu - the worst localized operating system ever [11:50] I don't even know why it is failing [11:51] the .mo's are there, the global and local lang settings are both set to german [11:51] the location of the .mo files is earched by KDE [11:52] apachelogger, I think we need to upgrade the localization bug to critical [11:52] Kubuntu can't release with it not translatable === xerosis_ is now known as xerosis [11:52] the bug was critical 2 months ago, now it is more like disaster [11:52] WTF has the ROsetta team been doing?! [11:52] KDE l10n teams are all grumpy, users are all grumpy, I am all grumpy [11:53] apachelogger, we should probably grab and hug our plan bs. [11:53] * apachelogger needs a cigarette and think about the problem [11:53] er [11:53] Bs [11:53] apachelogger, well, can't we bypass rosetta and grab the translations by hand and put them in the correct package? [11:54] (obviously thats the wrong way to do that, but I'll take the alternative of not releasing) [11:54] er, that, to the alternative [11:55] * smarter gave up a long time ago and simply overwrote the .mo with the one he built from /trunk/l10n-kde4 [11:57] hmm [11:57] one user on the french forum said that his Kubuntu 8.10 was translated since yesterday evening [11:59] WHAT IN JAMES T. KIRKS NAME!?!?!?!!?!? [12:00] apachelogger, it *looks* like the actual PO generator is broken [12:00] I can't download translations. period. [12:01] me@me-laptop:~$ dpkg -s language-pack-kde-de-base | grep -i status [12:01] Status: install ok installed [12:01] me@me-laptop:~$ dpkg -L language-pack-kde-de-base | grep kdelibs4.mo [12:01] /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/kdelibs4.mo [12:02] me@me-laptop:~$ ls -lah /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/kdelibs4.mo [12:02] ls: cannot access /usr/share/locale-langpack/de/LC_MESSAGES/kdelibs4.mo: No such file or directory [12:02] notice something? [12:02] That language packs seem to be broken more in general than anything else? [12:04] apachelogger, is it just KDE thats miserably broken, or everyone? [12:05] NCommander: dunno [12:05] * apachelogger apt-get reinstalls kde-de-base [12:05] apachelogger, we have roughly a week and a half to fix translations, right? [12:06] more like a week, CD creating and testing needs time as well [12:06] ok [12:06] * apachelogger runs against the wall [12:06] Crap [12:06] I think we need to seriously consider not releasing [12:07] I remember reading somewhere in the policy manual that the Project Lead can choose not to release if there is just cause [12:07] I think this qualifies [12:07] the package itself works [12:07] (somewhat) [12:07] but the CD installation didn't [12:07] The translations themselves are MIA [12:07] ? [12:08] I thought the issue was that translations weren't migrating from Rosetta to the kde-* packages [12:08] not anymore, or at least partially not anymore [12:08] I booted the CD with german locale [12:08] desktop was pretty germanish [12:08] I installed [12:08] Ok [12:08] Well, thats progress [12:08] Desktop what nos german at all, then I fiddled [12:08] I suppose [12:09] s/nos/not [12:09] Someone going to have to setup germinate and start building images [12:09] If we wait on just the daily CDs, we're screwed :-/ [12:10] maybe my image is broken [12:11] are LANG and LANGUAGE set to de_something ? [12:11] but that would lead to the question why locales were working in the live session [12:11] smarter: yes [12:11] smarter: see above [12:11] the installation was b0rked for some reasoon [12:11] * NCommander grabs a CD [12:11] * apachelogger gets a new images [12:11] what happens if you try to launch an app with KDE_LANG=de_DE ? [12:12] smarter: nothing, the files just weren't there [12:12] Why are only alternate CDs available? [12:12] er, nm [12:12] apachelogger, did you test an alternate CD? [12:12] nope [12:12] wth [12:12] ?? [12:12] I still have untranslated strings [12:13] C-r-a-p [12:13] On the liveCD? [12:13] on the installation with reinstalled kde-de-base package [12:13] maybe the translation is not complete upstream? [12:13] smarter: german is one of the most complete translations [12:13] especially visible strings like in the menubar [12:14] then you probably still have the half-borken l10n stuff [12:15] well, maybe the german mirror is not up-to-date [12:15] still, that doesn't explain the broken installation [12:16] * apachelogger switches to archive.ubuntu.com [12:17] smarter, aren't the packages installed from the CD? [12:17] smarter: it's not that [12:20] apachelogger, any news? [12:23] NCommander: dist-upgraded, no improvement [12:23] apachelogger, that's bad. [12:24] * apachelogger is also wondering why KDM is using english [12:24] that's really bad. [12:24] apachelogger, on the LiveCD, can you dump the list of packages installed, and then dump the packages installed by the CD? [12:24] It might reveal whats missing [12:25] well, it should be identical [12:25] the files just don't match [12:25] language-pack-kde-de-base should include all KDE translations [12:25] but as started above with the ls, it doesn't really install anything [12:25] apt-get --reinstalls gets the files [12:25] but then still a lot of stuff is untranslated [12:25] o________________________________________________________________________________o; [12:26] But on the LiveCD, things are translated? [12:26] yes [12:26] well [12:26] didn't look at that close [12:26] they are at least somewhat translated [12:26] More translated :-) [12:27] well, 12 minutes until my image download is finished [12:27] gotta try then [12:28] apachelogger, should I post the "Should we consider not releasing?" post to kubuntu-devel? [12:28] not yet [12:28] let me first trace the issues [12:31] NCommander: the CD I installed with is as incomplete [12:32] incomplete? [12:32] incomplete translated [12:32] http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot165.png [12:32] Thats not good [12:32] see menubar [12:32] But the translations are complete in Launchpad [12:33] maybe the KDE 4 ones for german are still not completely imported [12:33] smarter: is french completely complete? [12:33] * NCommander looks [12:33] not sure, I overwritten it using /trunk/l10n-kde4 last week [12:33] I remove everything and reinstall this evening [12:33] ah [12:33] have to go for now [12:33] cya [12:33] smarter: cya [12:35] NCommander: the incomplete translation is caused by the package, I just installed outside the VM, same incompleteness [12:36] * NCommander is trying to find the translation on Launchpad [12:37] * apachelogger installe le francais [12:37] https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kdebase/+pots/konqueror/ [12:37] Obviously we're screwed [12:38] NCommander: the menubar strings should be in kde4libs AFAIK [12:38] they are shared among all apps [12:39] https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kde4libs/+pots/kdelibs4 [12:39] Nice [12:39] That's wonderful [12:39] German, and Italian have no translations [12:39] that explains a lot [12:39] french is working wel here [12:39] *well [12:41] WTF have the translators been up to all cycle?! [12:41] more like the rosetta doods [12:41] NCommander: http://l10n.kde.org/stats/gui/stable-kde4/team/de/ [12:41] Not a single language has a complete translation [12:42] Ok [12:42] Well [12:42] We're not completely boned [12:42] We can copy the translations [12:42] yeah [12:42] well [12:42] actually [12:42] Expect [12:42] There is a licensing issue [12:42] that is what is being tried all the time [12:43] ???? [12:43] NCommander: the strings get imported into launchpad [12:43] then the upstream translations get imported [12:43] That won't work for KDE packages [12:43] They don't use the normal po format [12:43] NCommander: lp got special cases [12:44] *sigh* [12:44] so what do we do? [12:44] * NCommander is strongly considering a lot of copying and pasting [12:44] dunno, who is responsible for that kind of stuff? [12:44] Probably no one since it hasn't been done [12:44] This has been broken the entire cycle [12:44] NCommander: worst case solution would be to make lang-pack-kde-de-base an empty package and make it depend on kde-l10n-de [12:45] and ship the KDE translations in kde-l10n-* [12:45] Won't work. lang-pack-kde-de-base is updated AFAIK [12:45] Or [12:45] hold on [12:45] well, one can turn off updates [12:46] I don't consider that an acceptable asolution [12:46] I never considered rosetta an acceptable solution as a whole [12:47] The point is now we're boned [12:47] apachelogger, rosetta is nice for people who can't program but can translate [12:47] We need to do roughyl 10-20 translations per package [12:49] NCommander: I don't doubt it's use case of rosetta, the implementation is just wrong though [12:49] s/it's/the [12:49] * apachelogger installs new CD [12:50] apachelogger, I'm making my case in #launchpad to see if we can get the KDE translations into the import queue [12:50] NCommander: #ubuntu-release [12:50] they will know what to do and whom to poke [12:51] We need someone who can import the translations first [12:51] apachelogger: will we? [12:51] Hobbsee: I would hope so [12:51] tis a weekend, and people have already been around today. not sure how much luck you have [12:51] I was under the impression this was fixed months ago [12:52] ScottK: thx for picking up the fix for kuser and uploading <-- apachelogger: yes, ScottK did [12:52] aye aye [12:52] Un-fucking believable [12:59] do we still have translational issues? ... the new langpacks arriving yesterday seemed to fix almost all danish translations though (at least it got from around 20% translated to 80%) [12:59] a|wen, danish seems ok. We're missing a lot of translations [13:03] oh ... that's not good then [13:10] apachelogger, so its official, we're boned? [13:10] pretty much [13:10] I am much more worrid about the broken installation though [13:10] Great. We miss a release because of Launchpad [13:10] apachelogger, what broken installation [13:10] NCommander: see above :P [13:10] the magic with dpkg -s/-L and ls [13:11] the package are installed but the files which are part of the package are not [13:11] Oh, it gets better by the ****ing minute [13:11] NCommander: no, you miss a *translated* release, due to LP. [13:11] or at least, get a partially translated one [13:11] Hobbsee, personally, I don't see the difference [13:11] Hobbsee: KDE main market is europe [13:11] no translated release equals no release [13:11] ^- what he said [13:11] * NCommander sighs [13:12] * Hobbsee wonders why no one on the kubuntu team tested this, and noticed this, before. [13:12] we did [13:12] Hobbsee, it was noticed [13:12] and we poked LP [13:12] all the time [13:12] We've been waiting months for the Launchpad Rosetta team to fix this [13:12] It only JUST got fixed [13:12] "fixed" [13:12] obviously not agressively enough, it appears. [13:12] Hobbsee, pretty aggressively; there are more than a few threads on it in the archives [13:13] yeah, well. Don't talk to me about launchpad's inadequicies today, i've already seen theentire soyuz and other bits explode [13:13] apachelogger, it gets better [13:13] we could have threatened to move to debian :P [13:13] apachelogger, KDE packages don't seem to get imported [13:13] NCommander: blueheaded stepchild [13:13] apachelogger, only the pots are getting imported [13:14] Which means the pos aren't [13:14] * NCommander hits his head on the wall repeatively [13:14] guys, calm down. [13:14] * apachelogger joins NCommander [13:15] * NCommander is happy we live in a padded cell, right apachelogger? === thunders1ruck is now known as gnomefreak [13:15] *nod* [13:15] * apachelogger gets some oxygen [13:15] litterally, I just turned on the oxygen promo song :P [13:17] apachelogger, when is Riddell due to appear [13:18] apachelogger: i fail to see how it's only a kubuntu issue - OO.o stuff is there (at the back) too. [13:20] Hobbsee, its an issue because we litterially don't have the translations [13:20] Hobbsee, OOo has their translations, they are just be processed at the end [13:20] and are 18176 of them kubuntu-based? [13:21] Hobbsee, no, 12 are :-) [13:21] Hobbsee, those are the pot files in the queue [13:22] i wonder if there's a primer on how the heck launchpad, langpacks, etc, work. [13:22] dogfood with backtraces [13:22] FOr a long time [13:22] * apachelogger reboots newly installed system [13:24] so, why does https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kde4libs/+pots/kdelibs4 not show a german translation? Because it hasn't been imported, orbecause no one's translated it? [13:24] Both [13:24] Normally the translation should have been pulled in from KDE [13:24] But that broke sometime around the time intrepid opened [13:24] did that get fixed? [13:24] No [13:24] Just POT importing [13:25] I am not sure [13:25] French seems pretty imported [13:25] if it was, it would simply require a fresh upload of the KDE packages to get everything to import AFAIK [13:25] or the LP team did that [13:25] apachelogger, I think the french translators did that [13:25] Since French i18n in KDE reads 100% [13:25] (the way I understand it, Rosetta pulls the po and pot files out of every package during upload [13:26] If I understand the issue specifically [13:26] The problem is that KDE uses a different PO format because Qt doesn't use gettext like everything else [13:26] (that's why there is a seperate KDE PO format export option) [13:26] NCommander: unrelated to Qt [13:27] KDE uses an enhanced gettext version [13:27] oh, ok [13:27] with superior support for plurals and string descriptions for translators and stuff [13:27] * NCommander is not a i18n expert by any strech of the imagination [13:27] I know enough to explain how it works, but beyond that [13:27] * NCommander always felt gettext was a clever hack [13:28] anyway, I think if memory serves, is what broke importing [13:28] (exporting appears to work if you do it manually) [13:28] right, so, kubuntu has had to throw away upstream translations, because launchpad wouldn't import them, and retranslate everything? [13:28] Hobbsee, no, Launchpad has specific KDE support [13:28] It has from the beginning [13:29] ah [13:29] Hobbsee, for some reason, around the time of LP 2.0, that import support broke, and translations stopped moving from source packages into rosetta [13:30] NCommander: so what's happened after that? [13:30] A few bugs and questions were filed [13:30] But pretty much nothing, we couldn't do anything, it was a Launchpad issue that no one seemed interested in fixing [13:31] ScottK: the traceback in bug 285313 makes absolutely no sense ... for once it receives the exception when reading a boolean field (powermanager.hasBattery) which in no way should lead to the rest of the trace; and even if the exception really happens there it's inside a generic try-exception ... could it be a borked traceback? [13:31] As far as I can tell, despite the LP staff telling us otherwise, it seems KDE translation support is still completely hosed [13:31] Launchpad bug 285313 in python2.5 "python2.5 crashed with Exception in _initHAL()" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285313 [13:32] NCommander: there is a long history of issues with LP and KDE l10n [13:32] apachelogger, I personally agree with the fact that Rosetta is a hack [13:33] NCommander: well, you'll get the fun of discussing it withthem at UDS, i expect... [13:33] :D [13:33] And its compounded by the fact that the people who work on Rosetta seemed determined to keep KDE untranslated :-) [13:33] * apachelogger thinks it would be a lot easier if LP was FLOSS [13:33] NCommander: also, mrevell is good for getting important issues accelerated in the LP team. [13:33] Much [13:33] doesn't always work - but often helps [13:33] Hobbsee, so from the timespan of one LTS to the timespan of one release ;-)? [13:33] heh [13:34] * NCommander admits this is bullshit [13:35] i know, but you've got to a) yell at the right people, and b) try to figure out where it failed, to not let it happen again. [13:35] unfortunately, kubuntu's always been a bit of "oh, well, everyone kinda knew about it, but didn't accelerate it up to the general development community enough" [13:36] I am wondering [13:37] * NCommander wonders if we'd get LP open any sooner if the Kubuntu developer community went on strike .... [13:37] bug 203349 [13:37] */evil [13:37] Launchpad bug 203349 in language-pack-kde-sv "Broken plural forms in KDE" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/203349 [13:37] still not resolved [13:38] NCommander: you have to ask that? I doubt it. [13:38] NCommander: how much do you honestly think people notice of kubuntu, if they're not on kubuntu-devel@, or in this channel? [13:38] Hobbsee, well, I can dream ;-) [13:38] that's part of one of the bigger problems. [13:38] Hobbsee, I wasn't being serious, and I am aware [13:39]