/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/10/22/#ubuntu-motu.txt

NCommanderoh00:00
NCommanderer00:00
porthosecsilk: look at man dpkg-buildpackage :)00:22
csilkwill do00:22
csilkwhy does the latest packaged version of dh-make auto include a standards version of 3.7.3 then 2.8.0 is the current standard (according to lintian)?01:00
csilk*when 3.8.001:01
lfaraonejames_w: ping01:04
lfaraonejames_w: I'm getting an odd error when trying to build sugar on intrepid:01:04
lfaraone fakeroot debian/rules clean01:04
lfaraonedebian/rules:15: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk: No such file or directory01:04
lfaraonemake: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk'.  Stop.01:04
LaserJocklfaraone: install quilt01:38
csilkIf I'm packaging an app I got through CVS, should I remove all cvs related files form the app's directory structure before I make a .orig.tar.gzip ?01:52
csilk*.gz01:52
porthosecsilk: yes:)02:05
csilkporthose, hi, time for another quick question?02:06
porthosesure02:06
csilkI'm packaging a new app. the app has a 'bug' which causes a compilation error udner the newer versions of GCC, upstream advise (in their install instructions) that users add 2 lines of code to the top of a C++ source file. If I do this in the package do I just note that in the changelog or is modifying the code a big no no?02:07
csilkporthose, ^02:08
porthosehmm not sure about that one02:09
csilkYeah, I'm not too sure how to proceed with this02:10
porthosemaybe someone with more experience could help out?02:10
csilkhopefull02:10
csilky02:10
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
Awsoonnare there any known plans to release a desktop CD for the ppc? or are they only going to be given an alternitive install disc with intrepid?03:09
csilkis there a way to stop debuild from trying to sign a dsc file?03:18
TheMusoAwsoonn: There are ports disks available for PowerPC, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports03:18
TheMusocsilk: -uc -us03:18
csilkthanks03:19
TheMusocsilk: Welcome.03:19
csilkTheMuso, would you have any idea about my previous questiona few posts up?03:20
Awsoonnahah! I was in the daily dir and not the daily-live, thank you for the calification03:20
Awsoonn:)03:20
ScottKcsilk: You can patch it.  It's strongly preferred to do that with a patch system rather than just a direct modification.03:28
ScottKFor testing your package direct modification work fine.03:28
csilkScottK, any standard patching system commonly used that you would suggest?03:30
ScottKLet me dig you up a link.03:31
ScottKcsilk: There are choices.  Up to you.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems03:32
csilkThanks03:32
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
csilkbug patched03:51
csilkbrilliant03:51
csilknow I just gotta get the menu icons working ;)03:51
NCommanderScottK, so I'll be there for the entirity of UDS it seems03:51
ScottKCongratulations.  It's a good experience.03:51
NCommanderI'm going to be there because a professor kicked me out of his class for BS reasons03:53
NCommanderJust confirms to me to leave on sabatical winter quarter03:53
Hobbseesweet03:53
TheMusoNCommander: While that sounds good for UDS, thats not so good for your studies.03:54
NCommanderThe problem was the professor took issue with me helping other students in lab03:54
NCommander"You are a student, if someone else needs help, have them come to me"03:54
Hobbseewow...03:54
NCommanderYeah03:54
NCommanderIts not my first time taking this class03:54
ajmitchoh dear03:54
ajmitchthat's just retarded03:54
NCommander(I was in a car wreck the day of the final and was unable to get credit for it)03:54
NCommander^the first time around03:55
NCommanderI had a B+ then03:55
Hobbseecar accidents aren't acceptable reasons for delaying exams there?  ouch!03:55
* ajmitch was helping students in class one semester, the next year I was paid to help tutor in the lab 03:55
NCommanderHobbsee, New York State finals are held very irregularly03:55
NCommanderand I didn't pass when I retook it six months later03:55
Hobbseeoh, right03:55
* NCommander simply couldn't retain the skills without praticing them for that long03:55
NCommanderso I retook the class03:56
NCommanderJust to get this load of ****shit03:56
NCommanderer03:56
NCommanderI censored the wrong part03:56
ajmitchheh03:56
TheMusohehe03:56
ScottKWere these perishable skills censoring skillz?03:56
* NCommander hits ScottK with a lawn GNOME03:56
ScottKSorry.  It had to be said.03:57
ajmitchno, it really didn't03:57
ajmitchthat's like leaping on the first available pun03:57
NCommanderajmitch, he's from the navy, they don't know better ;-)03:59
LaserJockTheMuso, ScottK: you guys on MOTU Release?03:59
* NCommander runs really fast03:59
ajmitchhey LaserJock04:00
LaserJockajmitch: hola04:02
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
* NCommander sighs04:08
NCommanderI feel like .... I dunno04:08
NCommanderDoing something sane04:08
NCommanderlike watching TV04:08
txwikingerwow.. all the dns server for my domain are down04:08
ScottKLaserJock: Yes.04:08
LaserJockScottK: I'd like to upload a bug fix to desktop-multiplier04:09
txwikingerScottK: I got your message.. I will take care of it asap04:09
LaserJockScottK: it's technically a bug-fix new upstream release as its closed source04:10
LaserJockpretty minor changes though from what I got from the author04:10
cody-somervilleHey LaserJock :)04:12
LaserJockhi cody04:13
=== fabrice_sp_ is now known as fabrice_sp
ScottKLaserJock: If it's bug fix you can just upload it.04:22
LaserJockScottK: ok, just wanted to run it by MOTU Release first, even if it's just a FYI04:23
ScottKLaserJock: Yes.  Thanks.  Sometimes we get queried by ubuntu-release, so it's helpful.04:24
ScottKI've heard it said that Ubuntu moves more quickly than Debian because it's more IRC centered and Debian is more ML centered.04:38
ScottKSo last night we had a bit of a flamefest over bluetooth and its' over.04:39
NCommanderScottK, sounds about right04:39
NCommanderhey persia04:39
ScottKThe Debian ML thread on non-free firmware in the kernel show's no sign of ending.04:39
ScottKSo I guess that's a case in point.04:39
StevenKOn -devel?04:39
ScottKYeah04:39
StevenKRight. Glad I'm unsubscribed04:40
ScottKI'm not particularly reading them anymore, but I still notice the subject when I hit delete.04:40
StevenKI'm waiting for -private to have a large flamewar, it's overdue04:40
persiaScottK, Note that Debian also has flamefests on IRC, and close coordination on IRC for some teams, but that's considered not to count.04:40
ScottKpersia: Yes.  I even participate in those sometimes.04:41
* NCommander is waiting for the one on d-devel to hit critical mass04:41
NCommanderIts not quite there yet04:41
ajmitchit's at the threatening GRs stage04:41
LaserJockis there such a thing in Debian?04:41
ScottKThe last time was someone complaining Ubuntu patches sucked and I volunteered to show them where my patches from Ubuntu sucked so badly they'd be reused without any credit or attribution.04:41
persiaYes.  When a flamefest reaches critical mass, there is a GR.04:41
cody-somervilleGRs?04:42
ScottKbe reused/been reused04:42
StevenKGeneral Resolution04:42
StevenKHow the Debian project "solves problems"04:42
ScottKStevenK: I thought the Debian process was spew hate until one side quits and leaves.04:43
ajmitchgood, looks like they're at the filing annoying bugs stage...04:43
ajmitchbugs.debian.org/50295904:43
ScottKThat was a couple of days ago.04:43
StevenKScottK: That is the long term plan04:43
ScottKI think GR drafts are coming soon.04:43
ScottKAh.04:43
ajmitchI don't wade into flamefests too often04:43
persiaScottK, GRs are used to force the side that won't quit to do so.04:44
* StevenK remembers this coming up when he worked with Herbert and he was still maintaining the kernel04:44
* ScottK notes that that's exactly why he suggested rough consensus for MOTU decisions rather than 51 percent.04:44
persiaScottK, My only issue with formalising rough consensus was that it was just documentation of existing practice, yet the formalisation itself confused many people.04:46
ajmitchand if badly run, 'rough consensus' can be browbeating enough people until objections are silenced04:46
ScottKpersia: OK.  Hopefully we can get it clearly written down in a way that won't do that.04:46
ScottKajmitch: True.04:46
persiaScottK, Yep.04:46
persiaajmitch, Indeed, but it's better to emphasise that we seek consensus than to just have everyone bow before the browbeater because they did so in the past.04:47
ScottKI'm actually quite fond of the IETF idea of "Rough consensus and running code".  The IETF would work a lot better if they used it.04:48
ajmitchpersia: of course, browbeating must be done politely if at all possible :)04:48
ScottKIf you have to be mean, stay off logged channels.04:48
ScottKI messed that one up once.04:48
ajmitchheh04:49
ajmitchdid it return to bite you?04:49
ScottKA little bit.04:49
ScottKI got pretty direct CoC warnings from some senior people in the project.04:49
ScottKThey were right too.04:50
* ScottK does, however, note that the meaness was threating to do everything in my power to get a certain someone ejected from the project.04:50
* ScottK looks around and doesn't see that someone.04:51
ScottKSo it didn't bit too badly.04:51
ScottKbit/bite04:51
persiaWell, it's also a time of day issue.  This channel is still in autojoin for that person.04:51
ScottKYes.  I checked before I mentioned it.04:51
ScottKAFAIK they're still silenced on the channel in any case.04:52
* StevenK blinks.04:52
* ajmitch is not surprised04:52
persiaYes.  I was hoping to be able to lift that soon, but some of the support building in Debian washed away during the Lenny freeze, so it maybe a while yet.04:52
persias/maybe/may be/04:53
* ScottK notes that he did file a good bug the other day.04:53
ajmitchScottK: the problem wasn't the few good ones, sadly04:54
persiaYeah.  He's been getting a lot better, which is why the gag is starting to seem superfluous, but it requires certain criteria to be met before it can be lifted.04:54
ScottKajmitch: Agreed.04:54
ajmitcheven I can file a good bug, if the moon is in the right phase04:54
ScottKpersia: clamtk finds the clamav test files just fine, BTW.04:55
persiaAnyway, we've all spent enough bytes on this issue over the past 18 months.  More doesn't help.04:55
persiaScottK, Yep.  I tested that last night, although after the sync due to excellent service on the part of the archive-admins.04:55
StevenKpersia: Are you sure? Debian seems to follow the reverse.04:56
persiaAt this point, all the pending translations from the Japanese team are included, which is a good thing.04:56
persiaStevenK, One of the ways we aren't Debian is that we tend to accept when something is over, and only re-raise it when there are new changes that make it relevant.04:57
slangasekone wonders if you meant to type "Sven" instead of "Debian"04:59
persiaslangasek, I'm trying not to point at specific individuals, but that's an example.04:59
slangasekpersia: as a DD, I find it kind of insulting that you're making such a generalization about Debian, particularly if Sven is one of the "examples" since he's not part of Debian...05:01
slangasek(there are other examples who are - but I still don't think it's a fair generalization of the project)05:02
ScottKIn other news, the libhdf5-serial NBS could use a little working on.05:02
StevenKoctave-gpc?05:03
persiaslangasek, Fair.  My experience with most people actually working in Debian is that they are fairly quick to do things well.  My experience with d-d@ is that some things drag on for months with no useful input.05:03
StevenKIt's busticated, and I can't fix it05:03
* slangasek hides from hdf505:04
ScottKStevenK: That and libgdal-ruby and libdgal1-1.5.0 on lpia and opctave-plplot of hppa05:04
StevenKScottK: hppa is on NBS-ignore05:04
ScottKStevenK: Removal would fix it.05:04
StevenKScottK: I'm also ignoring gdal on lpia05:04
StevenKThat leaves octave-gpc, which I tried to fix05:04
ScottKMayve NCommander would take a whack at it.  He loves pain.05:05
ScottKMayve/Maybe.05:05
NCommanderStevenK, as a side note, the DYMANIC_FTRACE kernel upload to lpia was done05:05
StevenKIts configure script is written assuming that $major_version == 2, and it requires porting to a new octave API05:05
* NCommander is being absorbed into the kernel team05:05
StevenKAt this point, I think we don't care, but it's slangasek's call05:06
ScottKOK.  How much do we care about uninstallable?05:06
ajmitchporting to a new API at this late stage?05:07
slangasekwhich part is it we don't care about?05:07
StevenKslangasek: If octave-gpc is installable/works05:07
ajmitchScottK: is that pretty much it for uninstallable packages?05:07
ScottKajmitch: Yes.  Often because it's in Main and a Dependency is not.05:07
slangasekStevenK: "would be nice" but if not, them's the breaks05:08
StevenKI think it's comatose upstream, too05:08
ajmitchScottK: oh, just for main, or is everything installable in universe now?05:08
ScottKajmitch: I think if something in Universe is actually uninstallable it comes up, but the cases I've looked at have been depends in Universe.05:09
* ScottK beats the drum for removal.05:09
* NCommander reads from the Book of Dead Packages05:10
* persia has 60 uninstallable packages in the amd64 local apt cache.05:11
ajmitchpersia: too late for most of those to be fixed?05:12
persiaajmitch, Not at all.  None of them are on CDs (well, except for some ichthux stuff but that's not an official CD), so no reason we can't push them now.05:13
persiaajmitch, apt-cache unmet -i should give you a list.05:13
* ajmitch wasn't up on when universe is frozen05:13
ScottKLaserJock: Accepted.05:13
ajmitchyeah, I've used that in the past05:13
ajmitchnot entirely accurate, since it looks at installed packages as well05:13
NCommanderis it too late to zap a package?05:13
persiauniverse is getting more and more frozen as time passes, but stuff that would be SRU-worthy is typically accepted as late as possible.05:14
persiaNCommander, Nope.05:14
NCommanderpersia, care to ack a removal request for iceweasel-vimperator?05:14
NCommander(for obvious reason?)05:14
NCommanders/\?/s/g05:14
StevenKHow did that manage to get in?05:15
NCommanderDeep magic05:15
persiaNCommander, I don't see the obvious reasons.  Is there some good reason why this shouldn't be treated as a bug needing attention of the mozilla-extensions team?05:15
NCommanderwe don't have iceweasel in Ubuntu?05:15
StevenKNo05:15
persiaIs it known not to work with firefox?05:15
fabrice_spHI. I filed a bug for vimperator, and Mozilla team is having a look at it05:16
NCommanderwell05:16
NCommanderThat answer sthat05:16
fabrice_spBug #28622505:16
NCommanderThe package explicately depends on iceweasel, but no iceweasel05:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 286225 in vimperator "[intrepid] iceweasel-vimperator: Depends: iceweasel (>= 3.0~) but it is not instalable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28622505:16
persiaNCommander, Yes, but iceweasel is special, because firefox is nearly the same codebase.05:17
NCommanderI thought iceweasel and firefox extensions were incompabitable05:17
* NCommander knows very very little about iceweasel though in Debian05:17
persiaNCommander, Only in rare cases, but they can usually be patched to work.05:17
NCommanderoh, I wasn't aware05:18
* NCommander takes a gunshot to his idea to remove the package05:18
NCommanderWas firefox 2 finally killed?05:18
ScottKNCommander: Yes.05:19
NCommandercause we still have firefox-theme-ubuntu Depends firefox205:19
persiaIs the eog-dev issue just publisher skew?  That looks like main.05:19
ScottKNCommander: Feel free to ask for it's removal then.05:19
copprois there no utility that can scan the database for dead dependencies?05:19
StevenKNCommander: Madison on cocoplum disagrees with you05:20
persiacoppro, https://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck is probably a good place to look.05:20
NCommanderStevenK, disagrees with me on what?05:20
coppropersia: can't connect to the server05:21
StevenKNCommander: I can't find 'firefox-theme-ubuntu'05:21
NCommanderfirefox-themes-ubuntu05:21
NCommander:-P05:21
ajmitchNCommander: if using apt-cache, it has a habit of looking at packages that are/were installed05:21
persiacoppro, Sorry.  My fault : http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/05:21
NCommanderajmitch, that was a matter of a missing s05:21
coppropersia: ah, clever. Someone should really go through that prior to a release05:22
* coppro bookmarks05:22
persiacoppro, Lots of people do, but it clearly needs more people.  The goal is to get all the numbers to 0 at some point.05:23
StevenKNCommander: File a bug, and subscribe asac05:23
coppropersia: yeah, I'm bookmarking it so I can help work on it05:23
copprotoo late to get for intrepid now, though05:23
ajmitchthere's always too much to do before release05:24
copproheh05:24
copprotoo true05:24
LaserJockdoes anybody remember the email about this error: GtkSpinButton: setting an adjustment with non-zero page size is deprecated05:24
ajmitchLaserJock: one sec, let me hunt05:24
ajmitchhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-September/026520.html05:25
ajmitchI think that's related05:26
ScottKcoppro: Not entirely too late for Intrepid for Universe.05:27
* ajmitch just refreshed the rc bugs list after breaking it again last night05:27
ScottKThat's a good source too.05:28
copproScottK: yeah, but /me doesn't have that kind of time probably05:28
copproI'll do what I can though!05:28
ajmitchupgraded to intrepid, new libapt-pkg ABI, rc bugs list breaks05:28
ScottKajmitch: Don't worry.  If it wasn't that, the new Django API would have gotten you.05:29
ajmitchoh this is just for the processing side05:30
copproon the plus side, my Intrepid is working fine05:30
ajmitchcompletely detached from django05:30
copproon the down side, there is some changes I'd like to see in the upgrade process, but they are in Main05:30
ajmitchthe django stuff was just an experimental frontend to existing data05:30
copproso probably not going to happen :(05:30
NCommanderits weird05:33
NCommanderfor the entire time I've been a developer, I've been targetting intrepid05:34
NCommanderand now thats going away as the main target05:34
* NCommander feels very strange05:34
ScottKNCommander: You still have some time to go wild on intrepid SRUs before Jaunty opens.05:35
ajmitchyou'll get used to it05:35
NCommanderI'm just use the eternal sid05:36
ScottKGood night everyone.05:40
NCommandergood night ScottK, until another day05:40
ScottKNo, it'll still be this one.05:40
NCommanderwow05:41
NCommanderits 00:42 already05:41
persiaNCommander, No, it's 4:43.  You're just too far west.05:43
LaserJockheh, only 21:43 here05:43
LaserJockI'm still in yesterday05:44
NCommanderLaserJock, that's just lag ;-)05:44
LaserJockpersia: you have any idea what this means in a strace: futex(0x8460110, FUTEX_WAIT, 2, NULL)   = ? ERESTARTSYS (To be restarted)05:48
persiaLaserJock, Sorry, no.  I understand stack traces, but system call traces usually confuse me.05:49
fabrice_spHi. compilation of gambas2 in amd64 has be changed in P-a-s, but the package still shows as non installable in amd64. Should I fill a bug to force compilation of the package?05:50
fabrice_spHi persia :-)05:50
slangasekLaserJock: it means "threads".  If it hangs there, it means "thread error".05:57
slangasekLaserJock: if it's for a process you just attached to, it means "strace sucks"05:57
slangaseks/strace/ptrace/05:57
LaserJockslangasek: ok, thanks05:58
dholbachgood morning07:10
ajmitchhi07:15
dholbachhi ajmitch07:17
iulianHey dholbach :)07:24
dholbachhi iulian07:24
didrocksgood morning08:08
geserHi dholbach, didrocks09:17
Woody86Hello everybody :)09:35
* Hobbsee waves09:36
* Woody86 high-fives Hobbsee09:37
Woody86so what's everybody up to, sleeping or something??09:37
Hobbseeprobably09:38
directhexthe sleep of the just09:40
geserHi Hobbsee09:41
Hobbseehey geser!09:41
james_wbug 28736910:29
ubottuLaunchpad bug 287369 in gambas2 "[Intrepid] Gambas2 now works on amd64 platform" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/28736910:29
james_whow do we go about that?10:29
james_wA rebuild?10:29
porthoseWoody86: Congrats! You have a mentor.  I am sending you an email with your mentors contact info :)10:38
=== asac__ is now known as asac
highvoltagewhat does cdbs stand for?11:26
cody-somervillecommon debian build system I believe11:26
ScottKjames_w: Yes.11:29
james_wScottK: excuse me?11:29
viviersfhighvoltage, jou noobie :P11:29
ScottKjames_w: Rebuild gambas211:30
james_wScottK: aha, thanks. I forgot I had asked a question :-)11:31
james_wSo I should just push a build1?11:31
highvoltageviviersf: I just couldn't remember what it stands for11:32
viviersfhighvoltage, just a joke :)11:32
DktrKranzScottK, james_w, probably I'm wrong, but wasn't 2.8 compatible with amd64?11:33
DktrKranzgambas2 --^11:33
james_wThe P-a-s commit message was "gambas2 2.1.0 and later have 64-bit support"11:33
DktrKranzoh, so p-a-s is adjusted already?11:34
ScottKDktrKranz: Yes.11:34
ScottKSo now we need a new upload to trigger a build for amd6411:34
DktrKranzand no amd64 builds?11:34
DktrKranzI guess it's automatic, unless Arch: field does not include amd6411:35
ScottKNo.  You'd need a trigger11:35
ScottKPAS overrides what's in the control file.11:35
DktrKranzI was sure adjusting p-a-s would be enough, but I am probably wrong11:36
ScottKI may be wrong, but I don't think soyuz automatically scans PAS looking for new stuff it can build.11:36
DktrKranzlamont told me soyuz needs 12 to 24 hours to notice p-a-s changes11:38
DktrKranzif no builds since then, you're right11:38
ScottKDktrKranz: Well if lamont told you, then I believe him over my guesses.11:38
DktrKranzwhen such changes have been committed to p-a-s?11:39
DktrKranz(no browser handy, sorry)11:39
james_w20th apparently11:40
james_wit will not be automatic, but a buildd admin may have some magic apparently12:05
james_wwe are advised to upload a no-change rebuild, as that is sure to work12:05
james_wwhich I have just done12:05
=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
james_wThe gambas2 issue was fixed by the soyuz devs waving a magic wand13:06
Hobbseehurrah!13:08
=== txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger
lfaraoneAnybody have a spare intrepid box they don't mind giving a ssh account to?13:17
jorgenptlfaraone: virtualbox it.13:17
lfaraonejorgenpt: I don't have root access to the local machine, so I can't install VMs.13:19
* RainCT points to http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/14689/15:13
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
jcastro\sh: would you be interested in running a leonov session for openweek?15:53
\shjcastro: when is it?15:54
jcastro3 Nov to 7 Nov15:54
jcastrohttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep15:54
jcastroprep page if you want to add a session15:54
jcastroactually, that goes for any MOTU who wants to run a session15:55
\shjcastro: I would love too...but I'm on the road during this week...from 3rd (Monday) to Sunday :(15:55
jcastro:-/15:55
\shjcastro: on the road means: I'm working @ our DC during nightimes, which means sleeping time is during the day15:55
nxvl\sh: maybe you can send someone from your team to run a session16:04
\shnxvl: good idea...trying to catch thekorn ;)16:05
thekorn\sh: very late pong16:29
\shthekorn: would you like to run a leonov session during openweek?16:36
\shthekorn: I'm somehow busy work related (working nightshifts in our DCs)16:36
* \sh is brb ... 15 mins 16:37
thekorn\sh: I'll think about it tonight, off for sport right now, let's discuss it in #leonov16:37
=== slicer_ is now known as slicer
=== k00n is now known as Koon
ScottKpersia: I'd be curious to know if "Discussion of the MC application processes." included review of the feedback from some tech board members?17:38
persiaScottK, No.  It wasn't about criteria.  More about the fact that it *shouldn't* take months to process an application.  Applicants should get approved or denied.17:39
persiaThe comments from the tech board are interesting, and I am anxiously awaiting mdz to start the thread asking MOTU to define ourselves.17:40
ScottKpersia: Thanks.  I'd like to suggest that the TB comments should be discussed.17:40
persiaI don't think they should be discussed within MC.  I think mdz is correct that it's a wider thing, and should be discussed within MOTU.17:40
persiaMC should take guidance from MOTU when determining the appropriate criteria.17:41
ScottKOK.  I guess I took it as MC is acting as a TB delegate on such decisions and so that's where MC should look.17:41
persiaI agree with that : that's why I asked for clarification in the TB meeting.17:42
persiaOn the other hand, if TB seeks input from MOTU, I don't think the MC should be the sole source of that input, and I'm not sure it's productive for MC to establish a separate consensus from that of MOTU generally.17:42
persiaTo me, it seems clear that some members of TB consider MOTU to be independent of universe.  I thought that the statements by the TB were clear, but do not object to TB polling MOTU if they think that is the appropriate solution.17:44
=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
persiaScottK, Of particular note are the comments by a majority of TB at 16:03 (from irclogs.u.c) which seem to establish a consensus, and mdz's comment from 16:06.17:46
persiaI interpret 16:06 as overriding the previous consensus of 16:03.17:47
ScottKLooking17:47
ScottKpersia: I agree that where we are now is waiting for mdz to complete his action.17:49
persiaAs I stated at the time, I'm happy to go with 16:03, although it doesn't match my gut feeling.  On the other hand, I think completing the previous incomplete discussion has value, especially considering that many of the most prolific contributors in intrepid are not MOTU, and have not applied to be MOTU.17:49
ScottKAdditionally, if you go with what keybuck said at 16:06, then for people who only want to upload to Main, there is no path to core-dev.17:50
persiaScottK, Do you also agree that the discussion would benefit from a larger group than just MC?17:50
ScottKpersia: Yes.17:50
persiaScottK, Yeah.  Keybuk's 16:06 comment confuses me, especially given his previous support for ArchiveReorganisation, which seems to be a mechanism to establish just that.17:51
RainCTporthose: ping17:52
persiaFurther, rtg is a counter-case to that statement : in at least one case there is someone with ACL upload rights to main who does not have upload rights to the rest of the archive.17:52
ScottKYes.17:54
ScottKIt seems the major distinction between him and (I'm blanking on the name) the emacs-snapshot case is insider versus outsider and I don't think that's a good way to decide.17:55
persiaI think you're thinking of the ltsp stuff, rather then emacs-snapshot.17:56
persiafor emacs-snapshot, I think the problem is our sponsoring process.  For rus-ispell/xserver-xorg-video-nsc I think the problem is our SRU process.17:57
persiaBoth of those need lower latency, and special casing doesn't help that much.  There are exceptional cases (and emacs-snapshot may be one), but there are also core concerns.17:58
ScottKPerhaps.17:58
persiaFor ltsp, there's a clear need for a known active ubuntu member to upload only a small set of packages, and that individual has little interest in upload access to the rest of the archive.17:59
persiaTo me, having that person jump through the hoop of being MOTU seems odd, especially given their leadership in other areas, but that needs discussion.18:00
=== thunderstruck is now known as gnomefreak
=== mathiaz_ is now known as mathiaz
persiajcastro, Just signed up for Open Week : I'll take the 15:00 Wednesday slot to discuss "Polishing a package" meaning review the bugs, grab any available fixes, and submit a candidate for review.18:07
jcastropersia: sounds excellent.18:08
jcastropersia: please don't forget a description at the bottom!18:13
persiaErps.  Thanks :)18:13
* RainCT notes that REVU is going down for maintenance18:47
sebnerRainCT: yeah, time to b0rk something :D#18:48
RainCTsebner: yep, REVU has been working fine for too long already :D18:48
sebner\o/18:49
RainCT(is any psql wizard around?)18:50
sebnerRainCT: fixed your gnome? (though my theorie is that gnome is unfixable and because of that just GREAT)  :D18:50
RainCTsebner: nope18:50
RainCTstill freezing :(18:50
sebnerRainCT: bah, be b0rken is one thing but freezing is just crap :\18:51
RainCTwell, it's not normal freezing: it freezes the whole computer at startup and I have to hard-reboot :/18:51
fabrice_spRainCT: I have the same problem. In my case, It seems that it's during network connection with wifi18:59
Awsoonnis ther a way to put data on the clipboard from a bash script?19:03
RainCTfabrice_sp: oh. but I've no wifi here19:03
cody-somervilleyup19:03
RainCTAwsoonn: yes19:03
* Awsoonn smiles @ RainCT do you happen to have an example?19:04
fabrice_spSo, ho do you debug this kind of thing (freeze on startup, with hard reboot)? I tried to boot from another partition, but no strange messages in logs...19:04
RainCTAwsoonn: look at xsel19:04
RainCT(I had to look it up, didn't remember the name :))19:04
RainCTfabrice_sp: I don't know :)19:05
Awsoonnso cool, thanks RainCT, I found some good stuff to read on it19:05
RainCTAwsoonn: you're welcome :)19:05
pochusebner: btw, does amule need a FFe? I thought 2.2.1->2.2.2 was bugfix only19:18
RainCThe first to get a traceback on REVU gets a prize :P19:22
RainCT*the19:22
persiaRainCT, What's the prize?19:22
RainCTdunno.. an image of a cake? XD19:23
persiaNot worth hitting it with a pentest then :)19:24
RainCTporthose: you've got moderator status now :)19:24
RainCTheh19:25
RainCTpersia: well, it's basically just trying that all the stuff (post comments, delete comments, advocate, etc.) still works19:25
iulianRainCT: Do you still have that biscuit?19:26
RainCTiulian: yeah! XD19:26
iulianI'm in then!19:26
sebnerpochu: Good question. ScottK told me "Make a FFe for amule". I'll quickly recheck and decide then what todo.19:28
sebnerpochu: This is a stable release which features mainly bug fixes and improvements upon the 2.2.x series of aMule.19:30
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
RainCTJazzva: have you uploaded iceweasel-itsalltext or should I do?19:33
JazzvaRainCT, I'm not a MOTU. Please do it. Thanks :)19:33
AwsoonnRainCT: xsel seems pretty cool, but after about 10 minutes I realized I'm logged in via ssh and I was beign silly.19:33
RainCTiulian: no luck? :)19:50
ScottKRainCT and Jazzva: I got it accepted this time, but renaming packages and as a result stuffing them into the New queue really isn't a great idea this close to release.20:17
sebnerScottK: pingeling :)20:17
ScottKsebner: Pong20:18
sebnerScottK: I'm wondering if we really need a FFe for amule20:18
ScottKsebner: Perhaps not.20:19
ScottKIt's been some time since I looked at it.20:19
sebnerScottK: depending on how strict we are. 99% are bugfixes and the remaining 1% are minor minor new things20:19
ScottKsebner: At this point make the FFe then.20:19
sebnerScottK: kk, just wanted to recheck with you20:20
ScottKsebner: I have to justify accepts to ubuntu-release, so it'll help.20:20
=== lionel_ is now known as lionel
sebnerScottK: I see. Not long than 30 minutes then it'll be ready to ACK20:20
ScottKGreat20:21
ScottKsebner: Does the ssmtp bug apply to earlier releases too?20:27
sebnerScottK: yep, /me will prepare SRU's the next days20:28
=== jono_ is now known as jono
sebnerScottK: btw, /me is still impressed how long amule takes to build ^^20:30
Woody86hello everybody :)20:36
ScottKsebner: It won't be SRU, it'll be -security, won't it?20:41
sebnerScottK: of course but Stable release update is nearly the same for me since it's an update or a stable release. security or not ^^20:42
sebner*or = for20:42
ScottKOK.20:42
ScottKsebner: Is it all the releases affected?20:42
sebnerScottK: unfortunately yes, back to dapper20:43
ScottKOK20:43
sebnerScottK: ha! me is still in time. 6 minutes left =)20:44
Woody86ember - hello :)20:44
ScottKsebner: Looks like nxvl is beating you too it.20:44
ScottKtoo/to20:44
slytherinjames_w: I have just updated attachment for bug #268930, are you planning to sponsor it (since you added the comment about dependencies) or should I ask someone else?20:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 268930 in fop "FOP fails with java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.w3c.dom.svg.SVGDocument" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26893020:44
sebnerScottK: why? It was my decision to make SRU's ;)20:45
ScottKsebner: I see one debdiff in the bug already from him.20:45
sebnerScottK: true because he thought my changelog was not made in the correct way but it was (expect the versionsnumber)20:46
ScottKAh.20:47
sebner*exept20:47
sebner*except20:47
sebnergrrr20:47
slytheringeser: there?20:49
sebnerScottK: grr, damn icq. ready now :)20:58
=== DktrKranz2 is now known as DktrKranz
ScottKsebner: Bug #?21:04
sebnerScottK: bug #260471 , DO something. They stole my ssmtp SRU's :( :( :(21:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 260471 in amule "[FFe] Merge amule (2.2.2-1) experimental" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26047121:04
ScottKsebner: Why do we need replaces amule-common?21:05
sebnerScottK: I talked to pochu (last uploader). because in our svn version we had stuff there what was moved to amule to reduce the debian delta21:06
ScottKsebner: In what release did amule-common last exist?21:07
ScottKAs a real package, not virtual.21:07
pochuScottK: if you remove it, it will break upgrades21:07
pochuamule-common is a real package21:08
sebnerScottK: webserver stuff21:08
pochuit's a replaces because some files where moved from amule-common to amule21:08
ScottKWhen?21:08
sebnerScottK: our svn version -> debian resync21:09
pochuScottK: in hardy it's in amule-common21:09
ScottKpochu: OK.  It's needed then.21:09
ScottKThanks.21:09
pochuI can ask dato to add it to the Debian package, so we can sync in the future21:10
sebnerpochu: sync \o/ :) I'll file it then :P21:10
sebnerScottK: are you happy that I made a screenshot? Bonus points?  ^ ^21:11
ajmitchhi21:11
ScottKsebner: Ack'ed.21:14
* sebner hugs ScottK =)21:14
ScottKDktrKranz: Would you have a look at bug #26047121:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 260471 in amule "[FFe] Merge amule (2.2.2-1) experimental" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/26047121:14
sebnerScottK: It is possible.  <--- HAHA :)21:15
ScottKIt's not there yet.21:15
pochusebner: btw, tango icons look nicer ;)21:15
* DktrKranz looks21:16
pochusebner: switch to them in preferences :)21:16
sebnerpochu: lol21:16
pochusebner: feel free to subscribe to amule bugs, it's low traffic lol :P21:16
sebnerpochu: hehe21:16
ScottKjdong: You around?  I've got a backports policy question.21:17
sebnerpochu: tango = tangerine? ^^21:18
pochusebner: dato is committing the replaces bit to git21:19
pochuwill be available in the next upload21:19
DktrKranzsebner, ScottK: fine for me too.21:19
sebnerpochu: great. /me is already keen to sync stuff for jaunty :D21:19
sebnerDktrKranz: thanks ;D21:19
pochuhehe21:19
DktrKranzsebner, now get superpowers and upload it yourself, Y.R.B.21:20
sebnerpochu: DktrKranz : I still need a sponsors ACK21:20
sebnerDktrKranz: S. I. K. Y.  , Not enough time to be added to the group :P21:20
DktrKranzplease grant sebner a MCe (MOTU Council exception)21:21
sebnerROFL21:21
sebnerDktrKranz: What about a Se? Sebner expection ^^21:22
DktrKranzsebner, I don't like the name21:22
sebnerbah :P21:23
ScottKpochu: Would you do the amule upload?21:24
DktrKranzpochu, if you lack time, I could have a look later21:25
DktrKranz(but not too sure about it)21:25
* pochu doesn't have where to test ATM21:25
pochuso if you can, that would be great21:25
pochusebner: what about applying for MOTUship?21:26
DktrKranzwell... my ISP is blocking amule connections, so I can test if it builds and installs only21:26
sebnerpochu: why?21:26
sebnerDktrKranz: what about my nice picture :P21:26
DktrKranzsebner, we are *scared* of your future sync/merge requests for jauntyu21:26
pochusebner: to not need sponsors ;)21:27
sebnerpochu: hehe, at least forget it for intrepid cycle (not that long though ^^)21:27
sebnerDktrKranz: YOU or the archive admins? ^^21:27
pochuhaha21:27
DktrKranzsebner, they don't get queried21:28
DktrKranzas you do with me :D21:28
pochulol21:28
* sebner hides21:28
* pochu goes to study21:28
sebnerpochu: hf if possible ^^21:28
DktrKranzsebner, no hideout for you, I know them all21:29
pochuboson - core package for Boson21:29
pochulol at the description21:29
pochubbl21:29
DktrKranzpochu, what about "boson - boson, what else you need to know?"21:29
DktrKranzgah, my i386 debomatic machine is down, so I need to push it to PPA to have it tested :/21:30
DktrKranzsebner, are you able to open packages.u.c ?21:33
* DktrKranz not21:33
sebnerDktrKranz: yep, b0rken. was working some hours ago though21:33
* DktrKranz hopes in rmadison now21:34
sebnerDktrKranz: rmadison?21:34
DktrKranzrmadison -u ubuntu amule-common21:35
* sebner learns everyday something new =)21:36
ScottKDktrKranz: Did that one a while ago http://paste.ubuntu.com/61197/21:36
ScottKDktrKranz: BTW, -u ubuntu is default now.21:36
sebnerhrhr21:36
sebnerScottK: what wlan do you have?21:37
ScottKWhat do you mean?21:37
DktrKranzScottK, ah... need to adjust my aliases then21:37
sebnerScottK: wlancard21:37
sebnerScottK: ah sry, ignore me21:37
pkernSadly Debian's rmadison doesn't know about -u.21:38
ScottKAh.  I'm on a desktop here, but my laptop is intel 496521:38
DktrKranzpkern, really?21:38
sebnerScottK: he missread something. I thought you didn't use intrepid earlier because of br0ken wlan support. But it's about kde and nm21:39
ScottKsebner: Yes.  That was fixed around beta time.21:40
sebnerScottK: he = me xD21:40
ScottKIt was due to NetworkManager 0.7 getting uploaded before KNetworkManager had been updated to the new API.21:40
sebnerScottK: using unstable isn't that bad. AFAIK xorg only broke 2 times. Ok, Nvidia around 10 times but that's not necessary for life ^^21:40
ScottKsebner: It's one thing if you are a student.  It's another when you need these boxes for $WORK.21:41
DktrKranzsebner, testbuilding amule right now21:41
sebnerScottK: a student also has to use them. ok work is different but 1 or 2 days with broken Xorg in 6 months is pretty good :D21:42
sebnerDktrKranz: \o/21:42
ScottKYes, but you know that after, not before.21:42
sebnerScottK: to make it more funny /me only has *1* box/laptop21:42
DktrKranzsebner, I hope it will bypass my ISP filters, or borrow me some free internet, please21:43
sebnerDktrKranz: letter is already on his way :P21:43
* DktrKranz is angry when a State decide to block *illegal* peer-to-peer traffic21:43
sebnerhrhr21:43
DktrKranzwhere "illegal" = "I need to test if something works"21:43
sebnerDktrKranz: proxies doesn't work?21:43
pkernDktrKranz: rly21:43
sebnerDktrKranz: amule takes pretty long to build :\21:46
DktrKranzhow long?21:46
sebnerDktrKranz: /here 5-10 minutes21:47
sebnerDktrKranz: more likely around 10 ^^21:47
DktrKranznot too bad, I uploaded to PPA21:47
DktrKranzsince my i386 box is out of business for now21:48
sebnerDktrKranz: well for a small desktop app it's pretty long :\21:48
DktrKranzFinished:   2008-07-01  (took 24 minutes)21:48
DktrKranzporc...21:48
sebnerhehe21:49
pochusebner: http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/amule.git;a=commitdiff;h=73d577f5b4c7bc0d8d9add33b429eb6881fc6db422:34
DktrKranzmh, my PPA builds have stalled...22:43

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