[00:00] <NCommander> oh
[00:00] <NCommander> er
[00:22] <porthose> csilk: look at man dpkg-buildpackage :)
[00:22] <csilk> will do
[01:00] <csilk> why does the latest packaged version of dh-make auto include a standards version of 3.7.3 then 2.8.0 is the current standard (according to lintian)?
[01:01] <csilk> *when 3.8.0
[01:04] <lfaraone> james_w: ping
[01:04] <lfaraone> james_w: I'm getting an odd error when trying to build sugar on intrepid:
[01:04] <lfaraone>  fakeroot debian/rules clean
[01:04] <lfaraone> debian/rules:15: /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk: No such file or directory
[01:04] <lfaraone> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/patchsys-quilt.mk'.  Stop.
[01:38] <LaserJock> lfaraone: install quilt
[01:52] <csilk> If I'm packaging an app I got through CVS, should I remove all cvs related files form the app's directory structure before I make a .orig.tar.gzip ?
[01:52] <csilk> *.gz
[02:05] <porthose> csilk: yes:)
[02:06] <csilk> porthose, hi, time for another quick question?
[02:06] <porthose> sure
[02:07] <csilk> I'm packaging a new app. the app has a 'bug' which causes a compilation error udner the newer versions of GCC, upstream advise (in their install instructions) that users add 2 lines of code to the top of a C++ source file. If I do this in the package do I just note that in the changelog or is modifying the code a big no no?
[02:08] <csilk> porthose, ^
[02:09] <porthose> hmm not sure about that one
[02:10] <csilk> Yeah, I'm not too sure how to proceed with this
[02:10] <porthose> maybe someone with more experience could help out?
[02:10] <csilk> hopefull
[02:10] <csilk> y
[03:09] <Awsoonn> are there any known plans to release a desktop CD for the ppc? or are they only going to be given an alternitive install disc with intrepid?
[03:18] <csilk> is there a way to stop debuild from trying to sign a dsc file?
[03:18] <TheMuso> Awsoonn: There are ports disks available for PowerPC, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ports
[03:18] <TheMuso> csilk: -uc -us
[03:19] <csilk> thanks
[03:19] <TheMuso> csilk: Welcome.
[03:20] <csilk> TheMuso, would you have any idea about my previous questiona few posts up?
[03:20] <Awsoonn> ahah! I was in the daily dir and not the daily-live, thank you for the calification
[03:20] <Awsoonn> :)
[03:28] <ScottK> csilk: You can patch it.  It's strongly preferred to do that with a patch system rather than just a direct modification.
[03:28] <ScottK> For testing your package direct modification work fine.
[03:30] <csilk> ScottK, any standard patching system commonly used that you would suggest?
[03:31] <ScottK> Let me dig you up a link.
[03:32] <ScottK> csilk: There are choices.  Up to you.  See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/PatchSystems
[03:32] <csilk> Thanks
[03:51] <csilk> bug patched
[03:51] <csilk> brilliant
[03:51] <csilk> now I just gotta get the menu icons working ;)
[03:51] <NCommander> ScottK, so I'll be there for the entirity of UDS it seems
[03:51] <ScottK> Congratulations.  It's a good experience.
[03:53] <NCommander> I'm going to be there because a professor kicked me out of his class for BS reasons
[03:53] <NCommander> Just confirms to me to leave on sabatical winter quarter
[03:53] <Hobbsee> sweet
[03:54] <TheMuso> NCommander: While that sounds good for UDS, thats not so good for your studies.
[03:54] <NCommander> The problem was the professor took issue with me helping other students in lab
[03:54] <NCommander> "You are a student, if someone else needs help, have them come to me"
[03:54] <Hobbsee> wow...
[03:54] <NCommander> Yeah
[03:54] <NCommander> Its not my first time taking this class
[03:54] <ajmitch> oh dear
[03:54] <ajmitch> that's just retarded
[03:54] <NCommander> (I was in a car wreck the day of the final and was unable to get credit for it)
[03:55] <NCommander> ^the first time around
[03:55] <NCommander> I had a B+ then
[03:55] <Hobbsee> car accidents aren't acceptable reasons for delaying exams there?  ouch!
[03:55]  * ajmitch was helping students in class one semester, the next year I was paid to help tutor in the lab 
[03:55] <NCommander> Hobbsee, New York State finals are held very irregularly
[03:55] <NCommander> and I didn't pass when I retook it six months later
[03:55] <Hobbsee> oh, right
[03:55]  * NCommander simply couldn't retain the skills without praticing them for that long
[03:56] <NCommander> so I retook the class
[03:56] <NCommander> Just to get this load of ****shit
[03:56] <NCommander> er
[03:56] <NCommander> I censored the wrong part
[03:56] <ajmitch> heh
[03:56] <TheMuso> hehe
[03:56] <ScottK> Were these perishable skills censoring skillz?
[03:56]  * NCommander hits ScottK with a lawn GNOME
[03:57] <ScottK> Sorry.  It had to be said.
[03:57] <ajmitch> no, it really didn't
[03:57] <ajmitch> that's like leaping on the first available pun
[03:59] <NCommander> ajmitch, he's from the navy, they don't know better ;-)
[03:59] <LaserJock> TheMuso, ScottK: you guys on MOTU Release?
[03:59]  * NCommander runs really fast
[04:00] <ajmitch> hey LaserJock
[04:02] <LaserJock> ajmitch: hola
[04:08]  * NCommander sighs
[04:08] <NCommander> I feel like .... I dunno
[04:08] <NCommander> Doing something sane
[04:08] <NCommander> like watching TV
[04:08] <txwikinger> wow.. all the dns server for my domain are down
[04:08] <ScottK> LaserJock: Yes.
[04:09] <LaserJock> ScottK: I'd like to upload a bug fix to desktop-multiplier
[04:09] <txwikinger> ScottK: I got your message.. I will take care of it asap
[04:10] <LaserJock> ScottK: it's technically a bug-fix new upstream release as its closed source
[04:10] <LaserJock> pretty minor changes though from what I got from the author
[04:12] <cody-somerville> Hey LaserJock :)
[04:13] <LaserJock> hi cody
[04:22] <ScottK> LaserJock: If it's bug fix you can just upload it.
[04:23] <LaserJock> ScottK: ok, just wanted to run it by MOTU Release first, even if it's just a FYI
[04:24] <ScottK> LaserJock: Yes.  Thanks.  Sometimes we get queried by ubuntu-release, so it's helpful.
[04:38] <ScottK> I've heard it said that Ubuntu moves more quickly than Debian because it's more IRC centered and Debian is more ML centered.
[04:39] <ScottK> So last night we had a bit of a flamefest over bluetooth and its' over.
[04:39] <NCommander> ScottK, sounds about right
[04:39] <NCommander> hey persia
[04:39] <ScottK> The Debian ML thread on non-free firmware in the kernel show's no sign of ending.
[04:39] <ScottK> So I guess that's a case in point.
[04:39] <StevenK> On -devel?
[04:39] <ScottK> Yeah
[04:40] <StevenK> Right. Glad I'm unsubscribed
[04:40] <ScottK> I'm not particularly reading them anymore, but I still notice the subject when I hit delete.
[04:40] <StevenK> I'm waiting for -private to have a large flamewar, it's overdue
[04:40] <persia> ScottK, Note that Debian also has flamefests on IRC, and close coordination on IRC for some teams, but that's considered not to count.
[04:41] <ScottK> persia: Yes.  I even participate in those sometimes.
[04:41]  * NCommander is waiting for the one on d-devel to hit critical mass
[04:41] <NCommander> Its not quite there yet
[04:41] <ajmitch> it's at the threatening GRs stage
[04:41] <LaserJock> is there such a thing in Debian?
[04:41] <ScottK> The last time was someone complaining Ubuntu patches sucked and I volunteered to show them where my patches from Ubuntu sucked so badly they'd be reused without any credit or attribution.
[04:41] <persia> Yes.  When a flamefest reaches critical mass, there is a GR.
[04:42] <cody-somerville> GRs?
[04:42] <ScottK> be reused/been reused
[04:42] <StevenK> General Resolution
[04:42] <StevenK> How the Debian project "solves problems"
[04:43] <ScottK> StevenK: I thought the Debian process was spew hate until one side quits and leaves.
[04:43] <ajmitch> good, looks like they're at the filing annoying bugs stage...
[04:43] <ajmitch> bugs.debian.org/502959
[04:43] <ScottK> That was a couple of days ago.
[04:43] <StevenK> ScottK: That is the long term plan
[04:43] <ScottK> I think GR drafts are coming soon.
[04:43] <ScottK> Ah.
[04:43] <ajmitch> I don't wade into flamefests too often
[04:44] <persia> ScottK, GRs are used to force the side that won't quit to do so.
[04:44]  * StevenK remembers this coming up when he worked with Herbert and he was still maintaining the kernel
[04:44]  * ScottK notes that that's exactly why he suggested rough consensus for MOTU decisions rather than 51 percent.
[04:46] <persia> ScottK, My only issue with formalising rough consensus was that it was just documentation of existing practice, yet the formalisation itself confused many people.
[04:46] <ajmitch> and if badly run, 'rough consensus' can be browbeating enough people until objections are silenced
[04:46] <ScottK> persia: OK.  Hopefully we can get it clearly written down in a way that won't do that.
[04:46] <ScottK> ajmitch: True.
[04:46] <persia> ScottK, Yep.
[04:47] <persia> ajmitch, Indeed, but it's better to emphasise that we seek consensus than to just have everyone bow before the browbeater because they did so in the past.
[04:48] <ScottK> I'm actually quite fond of the IETF idea of "Rough consensus and running code".  The IETF would work a lot better if they used it.
[04:48] <ajmitch> persia: of course, browbeating must be done politely if at all possible :)
[04:48] <ScottK> If you have to be mean, stay off logged channels.
[04:48] <ScottK> I messed that one up once.
[04:49] <ajmitch> heh
[04:49] <ajmitch> did it return to bite you?
[04:49] <ScottK> A little bit.
[04:49] <ScottK> I got pretty direct CoC warnings from some senior people in the project.
[04:50] <ScottK> They were right too.
[04:50]  * ScottK does, however, note that the meaness was threating to do everything in my power to get a certain someone ejected from the project.
[04:51]  * ScottK looks around and doesn't see that someone.
[04:51] <ScottK> So it didn't bit too badly.
[04:51] <ScottK> bit/bite
[04:51] <persia> Well, it's also a time of day issue.  This channel is still in autojoin for that person.
[04:51] <ScottK> Yes.  I checked before I mentioned it.
[04:52] <ScottK> AFAIK they're still silenced on the channel in any case.
[04:52]  * StevenK blinks.
[04:52]  * ajmitch is not surprised
[04:52] <persia> Yes.  I was hoping to be able to lift that soon, but some of the support building in Debian washed away during the Lenny freeze, so it maybe a while yet.
[04:53] <persia> s/maybe/may be/
[04:53]  * ScottK notes that he did file a good bug the other day.
[04:54] <ajmitch> ScottK: the problem wasn't the few good ones, sadly
[04:54] <persia> Yeah.  He's been getting a lot better, which is why the gag is starting to seem superfluous, but it requires certain criteria to be met before it can be lifted.
[04:54] <ScottK> ajmitch: Agreed.
[04:54] <ajmitch> even I can file a good bug, if the moon is in the right phase
[04:55] <ScottK> persia: clamtk finds the clamav test files just fine, BTW.
[04:55] <persia> Anyway, we've all spent enough bytes on this issue over the past 18 months.  More doesn't help.
[04:55] <persia> ScottK, Yep.  I tested that last night, although after the sync due to excellent service on the part of the archive-admins.
[04:56] <StevenK> persia: Are you sure? Debian seems to follow the reverse.
[04:56] <persia> At this point, all the pending translations from the Japanese team are included, which is a good thing.
[04:57] <persia> StevenK, One of the ways we aren't Debian is that we tend to accept when something is over, and only re-raise it when there are new changes that make it relevant.
[04:59] <slangasek> one wonders if you meant to type "Sven" instead of "Debian"
[04:59] <persia> slangasek, I'm trying not to point at specific individuals, but that's an example.
[05:01] <slangasek> persia: as a DD, I find it kind of insulting that you're making such a generalization about Debian, particularly if Sven is one of the "examples" since he's not part of Debian...
[05:02] <slangasek> (there are other examples who are - but I still don't think it's a fair generalization of the project)
[05:02] <ScottK> In other news, the libhdf5-serial NBS could use a little working on.
[05:03] <StevenK> octave-gpc?
[05:03] <persia> slangasek, Fair.  My experience with most people actually working in Debian is that they are fairly quick to do things well.  My experience with d-d@ is that some things drag on for months with no useful input.
[05:03] <StevenK> It's busticated, and I can't fix it
[05:04]  * slangasek hides from hdf5
[05:04] <ScottK> StevenK: That and libgdal-ruby and libdgal1-1.5.0 on lpia and opctave-plplot of hppa
[05:04] <StevenK> ScottK: hppa is on NBS-ignore
[05:04] <ScottK> StevenK: Removal would fix it.
[05:04] <StevenK> ScottK: I'm also ignoring gdal on lpia
[05:04] <StevenK> That leaves octave-gpc, which I tried to fix
[05:05] <ScottK> Mayve NCommander would take a whack at it.  He loves pain.
[05:05] <ScottK> Mayve/Maybe.
[05:05] <NCommander> StevenK, as a side note, the DYMANIC_FTRACE kernel upload to lpia was done
[05:05] <StevenK> Its configure script is written assuming that $major_version == 2, and it requires porting to a new octave API
[05:05]  * NCommander is being absorbed into the kernel team
[05:06] <StevenK> At this point, I think we don't care, but it's slangasek's call
[05:06] <ScottK> OK.  How much do we care about uninstallable?
[05:07] <ajmitch> porting to a new API at this late stage?
[05:07] <slangasek> which part is it we don't care about?
[05:07] <StevenK> slangasek: If octave-gpc is installable/works
[05:07] <ajmitch> ScottK: is that pretty much it for uninstallable packages?
[05:07] <ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.  Often because it's in Main and a Dependency is not.
[05:08] <slangasek> StevenK: "would be nice" but if not, them's the breaks
[05:08] <StevenK> I think it's comatose upstream, too
[05:08] <ajmitch> ScottK: oh, just for main, or is everything installable in universe now?
[05:09] <ScottK> ajmitch: I think if something in Universe is actually uninstallable it comes up, but the cases I've looked at have been depends in Universe.
[05:09]  * ScottK beats the drum for removal.
[05:10]  * NCommander reads from the Book of Dead Packages
[05:11]  * persia has 60 uninstallable packages in the amd64 local apt cache.
[05:12] <ajmitch> persia: too late for most of those to be fixed?
[05:13] <persia> ajmitch, Not at all.  None of them are on CDs (well, except for some ichthux stuff but that's not an official CD), so no reason we can't push them now.
[05:13] <persia> ajmitch, apt-cache unmet -i should give you a list.
[05:13]  * ajmitch wasn't up on when universe is frozen
[05:13] <ScottK> LaserJock: Accepted.
[05:13] <ajmitch> yeah, I've used that in the past
[05:13] <ajmitch> not entirely accurate, since it looks at installed packages as well
[05:13] <NCommander> is it too late to zap a package?
[05:14] <persia> universe is getting more and more frozen as time passes, but stuff that would be SRU-worthy is typically accepted as late as possible.
[05:14] <persia> NCommander, Nope.
[05:14] <NCommander> persia, care to ack a removal request for iceweasel-vimperator?
[05:14] <NCommander> (for obvious reason?)
[05:14] <NCommander> s/\?/s/g
[05:15] <StevenK> How did that manage to get in?
[05:15] <NCommander> Deep magic
[05:15] <persia> NCommander, I don't see the obvious reasons.  Is there some good reason why this shouldn't be treated as a bug needing attention of the mozilla-extensions team?
[05:15] <NCommander> we don't have iceweasel in Ubuntu?
[05:15] <StevenK> No
[05:15] <persia> Is it known not to work with firefox?
[05:16] <fabrice_sp> HI. I filed a bug for vimperator, and Mozilla team is having a look at it
[05:16] <NCommander> well
[05:16] <NCommander> That answer sthat
[05:16] <fabrice_sp> Bug #286225
[05:16] <NCommander> The package explicately depends on iceweasel, but no iceweasel
[05:17] <persia> NCommander, Yes, but iceweasel is special, because firefox is nearly the same codebase.
[05:17] <NCommander> I thought iceweasel and firefox extensions were incompabitable
[05:17]  * NCommander knows very very little about iceweasel though in Debian
[05:17] <persia> NCommander, Only in rare cases, but they can usually be patched to work.
[05:18] <NCommander> oh, I wasn't aware
[05:18]  * NCommander takes a gunshot to his idea to remove the package
[05:18] <NCommander> Was firefox 2 finally killed?
[05:19] <ScottK> NCommander: Yes.
[05:19] <NCommander> cause we still have firefox-theme-ubuntu Depends firefox2
[05:19] <persia> Is the eog-dev issue just publisher skew?  That looks like main.
[05:19] <ScottK> NCommander: Feel free to ask for it's removal then.
[05:19] <coppro> is there no utility that can scan the database for dead dependencies?
[05:20] <StevenK> NCommander: Madison on cocoplum disagrees with you
[05:20] <persia> coppro, https://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck is probably a good place to look.
[05:20] <NCommander> StevenK, disagrees with me on what?
[05:21] <coppro> persia: can't connect to the server
[05:21] <StevenK> NCommander: I can't find 'firefox-theme-ubuntu'
[05:21] <NCommander> firefox-themes-ubuntu
[05:21] <NCommander> :-P
[05:21] <ajmitch> NCommander: if using apt-cache, it has a habit of looking at packages that are/were installed
[05:21] <persia> coppro, Sorry.  My fault : http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/debcheck/
[05:21] <NCommander> ajmitch, that was a matter of a missing s
[05:22] <coppro> persia: ah, clever. Someone should really go through that prior to a release
[05:22]  * coppro bookmarks
[05:23] <persia> coppro, Lots of people do, but it clearly needs more people.  The goal is to get all the numbers to 0 at some point.
[05:23] <StevenK> NCommander: File a bug, and subscribe asac
[05:23] <coppro> persia: yeah, I'm bookmarking it so I can help work on it
[05:23] <coppro> too late to get for intrepid now, though
[05:24] <ajmitch> there's always too much to do before release
[05:24] <coppro> heh
[05:24] <coppro> too true
[05:24] <LaserJock> does anybody remember the email about this error: GtkSpinButton: setting an adjustment with non-zero page size is deprecated
[05:24] <ajmitch> LaserJock: one sec, let me hunt
[05:25] <ajmitch> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-September/026520.html
[05:26] <ajmitch> I think that's related
[05:27] <ScottK> coppro: Not entirely too late for Intrepid for Universe.
[05:27]  * ajmitch just refreshed the rc bugs list after breaking it again last night
[05:28] <ScottK> That's a good source too.
[05:28] <coppro> ScottK: yeah, but /me doesn't have that kind of time probably
[05:28] <coppro> I'll do what I can though!
[05:28] <ajmitch> upgraded to intrepid, new libapt-pkg ABI, rc bugs list breaks
[05:29] <ScottK> ajmitch: Don't worry.  If it wasn't that, the new Django API would have gotten you.
[05:30] <ajmitch> oh this is just for the processing side
[05:30] <coppro> on the plus side, my Intrepid is working fine
[05:30] <ajmitch> completely detached from django
[05:30] <coppro> on the down side, there is some changes I'd like to see in the upgrade process, but they are in Main
[05:30] <ajmitch> the django stuff was just an experimental frontend to existing data
[05:30] <coppro> so probably not going to happen :(
[05:33] <NCommander> its weird
[05:34] <NCommander> for the entire time I've been a developer, I've been targetting intrepid
[05:34] <NCommander> and now thats going away as the main target
[05:34]  * NCommander feels very strange
[05:35] <ScottK> NCommander: You still have some time to go wild on intrepid SRUs before Jaunty opens.
[05:35] <ajmitch> you'll get used to it
[05:36] <NCommander> I'm just use the eternal sid
[05:40] <ScottK> Good night everyone.
[05:40] <NCommander> good night ScottK, until another day
[05:40] <ScottK> No, it'll still be this one.
[05:41] <NCommander> wow
[05:41] <NCommander> its 00:42 already
[05:43] <persia> NCommander, No, it's 4:43.  You're just too far west.
[05:43] <LaserJock> heh, only 21:43 here
[05:44] <LaserJock> I'm still in yesterday
[05:44] <NCommander> LaserJock, that's just lag ;-)
[05:48] <LaserJock> persia: you have any idea what this means in a strace: futex(0x8460110, FUTEX_WAIT, 2, NULL)   = ? ERESTARTSYS (To be restarted)
[05:49] <persia> LaserJock, Sorry, no.  I understand stack traces, but system call traces usually confuse me.
[05:50] <fabrice_sp> Hi. compilation of gambas2 in amd64 has be changed in P-a-s, but the package still shows as non installable in amd64. Should I fill a bug to force compilation of the package?
[05:50] <fabrice_sp> Hi persia :-)
[05:57] <slangasek> LaserJock: it means "threads".  If it hangs there, it means "thread error".
[05:57] <slangasek> LaserJock: if it's for a process you just attached to, it means "strace sucks"
[05:57] <slangasek> s/strace/ptrace/
[05:58] <LaserJock> slangasek: ok, thanks
[07:10] <dholbach> good morning
[07:15] <ajmitch> hi
[07:17] <dholbach> hi ajmitch
[07:24] <iulian> Hey dholbach :)
[07:24] <dholbach> hi iulian
[08:08] <didrocks> good morning
[09:17] <geser> Hi dholbach, didrocks
[09:35] <Woody86> Hello everybody :)
[09:36]  * Hobbsee waves
[09:37]  * Woody86 high-fives Hobbsee
[09:37] <Woody86> so what's everybody up to, sleeping or something??
[09:38] <Hobbsee> probably
[09:40] <directhex> the sleep of the just
[09:41] <geser> Hi Hobbsee
[09:41] <Hobbsee> hey geser!
[10:29] <james_w> bug 287369
[10:29] <james_w> how do we go about that?
[10:29] <james_w> A rebuild?
[10:38] <porthose> Woody86: Congrats! You have a mentor.  I am sending you an email with your mentors contact info :)
[11:26] <highvoltage> what does cdbs stand for?
[11:26] <cody-somerville> common debian build system I believe
[11:29] <ScottK> james_w: Yes.
[11:29] <james_w> ScottK: excuse me?
[11:29] <viviersf> highvoltage, jou noobie :P
[11:30] <ScottK> james_w: Rebuild gambas2
[11:31] <james_w> ScottK: aha, thanks. I forgot I had asked a question :-)
[11:31] <james_w> So I should just push a build1?
[11:32] <highvoltage> viviersf: I just couldn't remember what it stands for
[11:32] <viviersf> highvoltage, just a joke :)
[11:33] <DktrKranz> ScottK, james_w, probably I'm wrong, but wasn't 2.8 compatible with amd64?
[11:33] <DktrKranz> gambas2 --^
[11:33] <james_w> The P-a-s commit message was "gambas2 2.1.0 and later have 64-bit support"
[11:34] <DktrKranz> oh, so p-a-s is adjusted already?
[11:34] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Yes.
[11:34] <ScottK> So now we need a new upload to trigger a build for amd64
[11:34] <DktrKranz> and no amd64 builds?
[11:35] <DktrKranz> I guess it's automatic, unless Arch: field does not include amd64
[11:35] <ScottK> No.  You'd need a trigger
[11:35] <ScottK> PAS overrides what's in the control file.
[11:36] <DktrKranz> I was sure adjusting p-a-s would be enough, but I am probably wrong
[11:36] <ScottK> I may be wrong, but I don't think soyuz automatically scans PAS looking for new stuff it can build.
[11:38] <DktrKranz> lamont told me soyuz needs 12 to 24 hours to notice p-a-s changes
[11:38] <DktrKranz> if no builds since then, you're right
[11:38] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Well if lamont told you, then I believe him over my guesses.
[11:39] <DktrKranz> when such changes have been committed to p-a-s?
[11:39] <DktrKranz> (no browser handy, sorry)
[11:40] <james_w> 20th apparently
[12:05] <james_w> it will not be automatic, but a buildd admin may have some magic apparently
[12:05] <james_w> we are advised to upload a no-change rebuild, as that is sure to work
[12:05] <james_w> which I have just done
[13:06] <james_w> The gambas2 issue was fixed by the soyuz devs waving a magic wand
[13:08] <Hobbsee> hurrah!
[13:17] <lfaraone> Anybody have a spare intrepid box they don't mind giving a ssh account to?
[13:17] <jorgenpt> lfaraone: virtualbox it.
[13:19] <lfaraone> jorgenpt: I don't have root access to the local machine, so I can't install VMs.
[15:13]  * RainCT points to http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/14689/
[15:53] <jcastro> \sh: would you be interested in running a leonov session for openweek?
[15:54] <\sh> jcastro: when is it?
[15:54] <jcastro> 3 Nov to 7 Nov
[15:54] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/Prep
[15:54] <jcastro> prep page if you want to add a session
[15:55] <jcastro> actually, that goes for any MOTU who wants to run a session
[15:55] <\sh> jcastro: I would love too...but I'm on the road during this week...from 3rd (Monday) to Sunday :(
[15:55] <jcastro> :-/
[15:55] <\sh> jcastro: on the road means: I'm working @ our DC during nightimes, which means sleeping time is during the day
[16:04] <nxvl> \sh: maybe you can send someone from your team to run a session
[16:05] <\sh> nxvl: good idea...trying to catch thekorn ;)
[16:29] <thekorn> \sh: very late pong
[16:36] <\sh> thekorn: would you like to run a leonov session during openweek?
[16:36] <\sh> thekorn: I'm somehow busy work related (working nightshifts in our DCs)
[16:37]  * \sh is brb ... 15 mins 
[16:37] <thekorn> \sh: I'll think about it tonight, off for sport right now, let's discuss it in #leonov
[17:38] <ScottK> persia: I'd be curious to know if "Discussion of the MC application processes." included review of the feedback from some tech board members?
[17:39] <persia> ScottK, No.  It wasn't about criteria.  More about the fact that it *shouldn't* take months to process an application.  Applicants should get approved or denied.
[17:40] <persia> The comments from the tech board are interesting, and I am anxiously awaiting mdz to start the thread asking MOTU to define ourselves.
[17:40] <ScottK> persia: Thanks.  I'd like to suggest that the TB comments should be discussed.
[17:40] <persia> I don't think they should be discussed within MC.  I think mdz is correct that it's a wider thing, and should be discussed within MOTU.
[17:41] <persia> MC should take guidance from MOTU when determining the appropriate criteria.
[17:41] <ScottK> OK.  I guess I took it as MC is acting as a TB delegate on such decisions and so that's where MC should look.
[17:42] <persia> I agree with that : that's why I asked for clarification in the TB meeting.
[17:42] <persia> On the other hand, if TB seeks input from MOTU, I don't think the MC should be the sole source of that input, and I'm not sure it's productive for MC to establish a separate consensus from that of MOTU generally.
[17:44] <persia> To me, it seems clear that some members of TB consider MOTU to be independent of universe.  I thought that the statements by the TB were clear, but do not object to TB polling MOTU if they think that is the appropriate solution.
[17:46] <persia> ScottK, Of particular note are the comments by a majority of TB at 16:03 (from irclogs.u.c) which seem to establish a consensus, and mdz's comment from 16:06.
[17:47] <persia> I interpret 16:06 as overriding the previous consensus of 16:03.
[17:47] <ScottK> Looking
[17:49] <ScottK> persia: I agree that where we are now is waiting for mdz to complete his action.
[17:49] <persia> As I stated at the time, I'm happy to go with 16:03, although it doesn't match my gut feeling.  On the other hand, I think completing the previous incomplete discussion has value, especially considering that many of the most prolific contributors in intrepid are not MOTU, and have not applied to be MOTU.
[17:50] <ScottK> Additionally, if you go with what keybuck said at 16:06, then for people who only want to upload to Main, there is no path to core-dev.
[17:50] <persia> ScottK, Do you also agree that the discussion would benefit from a larger group than just MC?
[17:50] <ScottK> persia: Yes.
[17:51] <persia> ScottK, Yeah.  Keybuk's 16:06 comment confuses me, especially given his previous support for ArchiveReorganisation, which seems to be a mechanism to establish just that.
[17:52] <RainCT> porthose: ping
[17:52] <persia> Further, rtg is a counter-case to that statement : in at least one case there is someone with ACL upload rights to main who does not have upload rights to the rest of the archive.
[17:54] <ScottK> Yes.
[17:55] <ScottK> It seems the major distinction between him and (I'm blanking on the name) the emacs-snapshot case is insider versus outsider and I don't think that's a good way to decide.
[17:56] <persia> I think you're thinking of the ltsp stuff, rather then emacs-snapshot.
[17:57] <persia> for emacs-snapshot, I think the problem is our sponsoring process.  For rus-ispell/xserver-xorg-video-nsc I think the problem is our SRU process.
[17:58] <persia> Both of those need lower latency, and special casing doesn't help that much.  There are exceptional cases (and emacs-snapshot may be one), but there are also core concerns.
[17:58] <ScottK> Perhaps.
[17:59] <persia> For ltsp, there's a clear need for a known active ubuntu member to upload only a small set of packages, and that individual has little interest in upload access to the rest of the archive.
[18:00] <persia> To me, having that person jump through the hoop of being MOTU seems odd, especially given their leadership in other areas, but that needs discussion.
[18:07] <persia> jcastro, Just signed up for Open Week : I'll take the 15:00 Wednesday slot to discuss "Polishing a package" meaning review the bugs, grab any available fixes, and submit a candidate for review.
[18:08] <jcastro> persia: sounds excellent.
[18:13] <jcastro> persia: please don't forget a description at the bottom!
[18:13] <persia> Erps.  Thanks :)
[18:47]  * RainCT notes that REVU is going down for maintenance
[18:48] <sebner> RainCT: yeah, time to b0rk something :D#
[18:48] <RainCT> sebner: yep, REVU has been working fine for too long already :D
[18:49] <sebner> \o/
[18:50] <RainCT> (is any psql wizard around?)
[18:50] <sebner> RainCT: fixed your gnome? (though my theorie is that gnome is unfixable and because of that just GREAT)  :D
[18:50] <RainCT> sebner: nope
[18:50] <RainCT> still freezing :(
[18:51] <sebner> RainCT: bah, be b0rken is one thing but freezing is just crap :\
[18:51] <RainCT> well, it's not normal freezing: it freezes the whole computer at startup and I have to hard-reboot :/
[18:59] <fabrice_sp> RainCT: I have the same problem. In my case, It seems that it's during network connection with wifi
[19:03] <Awsoonn> is ther a way to put data on the clipboard from a bash script?
[19:03] <RainCT> fabrice_sp: oh. but I've no wifi here
[19:03] <cody-somerville> yup
[19:03] <RainCT> Awsoonn: yes
[19:04]  * Awsoonn smiles @ RainCT do you happen to have an example?
[19:04] <fabrice_sp> So, ho do you debug this kind of thing (freeze on startup, with hard reboot)? I tried to boot from another partition, but no strange messages in logs...
[19:04] <RainCT> Awsoonn: look at xsel
[19:04] <RainCT> (I had to look it up, didn't remember the name :))
[19:05] <RainCT> fabrice_sp: I don't know :)
[19:05] <Awsoonn> so cool, thanks RainCT, I found some good stuff to read on it
[19:05] <RainCT> Awsoonn: you're welcome :)
[19:18] <pochu> sebner: btw, does amule need a FFe? I thought 2.2.1->2.2.2 was bugfix only
[19:22] <RainCT> he first to get a traceback on REVU gets a prize :P
[19:22] <RainCT> *the
[19:22] <persia> RainCT, What's the prize?
[19:23] <RainCT> dunno.. an image of a cake? XD
[19:24] <persia> Not worth hitting it with a pentest then :)
[19:24] <RainCT> porthose: you've got moderator status now :)
[19:25] <RainCT> heh
[19:25] <RainCT> persia: well, it's basically just trying that all the stuff (post comments, delete comments, advocate, etc.) still works
[19:26] <iulian> RainCT: Do you still have that biscuit?
[19:26] <RainCT> iulian: yeah! XD
[19:26] <iulian> I'm in then!
[19:28] <sebner> pochu: Good question. ScottK told me "Make a FFe for amule". I'll quickly recheck and decide then what todo.
[19:30] <sebner> pochu: This is a stable release which features mainly bug fixes and improvements upon the 2.2.x series of aMule.
[19:33] <RainCT> Jazzva: have you uploaded iceweasel-itsalltext or should I do?
[19:33] <Jazzva> RainCT, I'm not a MOTU. Please do it. Thanks :)
[19:33] <Awsoonn> RainCT: xsel seems pretty cool, but after about 10 minutes I realized I'm logged in via ssh and I was beign silly.
[19:50] <RainCT> iulian: no luck? :)
[20:17] <ScottK> RainCT and Jazzva: I got it accepted this time, but renaming packages and as a result stuffing them into the New queue really isn't a great idea this close to release.
[20:17] <sebner> ScottK: pingeling :)
[20:18] <ScottK> sebner: Pong
[20:18] <sebner> ScottK: I'm wondering if we really need a FFe for amule
[20:19] <ScottK> sebner: Perhaps not.
[20:19] <ScottK> It's been some time since I looked at it.
[20:19] <sebner> ScottK: depending on how strict we are. 99% are bugfixes and the remaining 1% are minor minor new things
[20:19] <ScottK> sebner: At this point make the FFe then.
[20:20] <sebner> ScottK: kk, just wanted to recheck with you
[20:20] <ScottK> sebner: I have to justify accepts to ubuntu-release, so it'll help.
[20:20] <sebner> ScottK: I see. Not long than 30 minutes then it'll be ready to ACK
[20:21] <ScottK> Great
[20:27] <ScottK> sebner: Does the ssmtp bug apply to earlier releases too?
[20:28] <sebner> ScottK: yep, /me will prepare SRU's the next days
[20:30] <sebner> ScottK: btw, /me is still impressed how long amule takes to build ^^
[20:36] <Woody86> hello everybody :)
[20:41] <ScottK> sebner: It won't be SRU, it'll be -security, won't it?
[20:42] <sebner> ScottK: of course but Stable release update is nearly the same for me since it's an update or a stable release. security or not ^^
[20:42] <sebner> *or = for
[20:42] <ScottK> OK.
[20:42] <ScottK> sebner: Is it all the releases affected?
[20:43] <sebner> ScottK: unfortunately yes, back to dapper
[20:43] <ScottK> OK
[20:44] <sebner> ScottK: ha! me is still in time. 6 minutes left =)
[20:44] <Woody86> ember - hello :)
[20:44] <ScottK> sebner: Looks like nxvl is beating you too it.
[20:44] <ScottK> too/to
[20:44] <slytherin> james_w: I have just updated attachment for bug #268930, are you planning to sponsor it (since you added the comment about dependencies) or should I ask someone else?
[20:45] <sebner> ScottK: why? It was my decision to make SRU's ;)
[20:45] <ScottK> sebner: I see one debdiff in the bug already from him.
[20:46] <sebner> ScottK: true because he thought my changelog was not made in the correct way but it was (expect the versionsnumber)
[20:47] <ScottK> Ah.
[20:47] <sebner> *exept
[20:47] <sebner> *except
[20:47] <sebner> grrr
[20:49] <slytherin> geser: there?
[20:58] <sebner> ScottK: grr, damn icq. ready now :)
[21:04] <ScottK> sebner: Bug #?
[21:04] <sebner> ScottK: bug #260471 , DO something. They stole my ssmtp SRU's :( :( :(
[21:05] <ScottK> sebner: Why do we need replaces amule-common?
[21:06] <sebner> ScottK: I talked to pochu (last uploader). because in our svn version we had stuff there what was moved to amule to reduce the debian delta
[21:07] <ScottK> sebner: In what release did amule-common last exist?
[21:07] <ScottK> As a real package, not virtual.
[21:07] <pochu> ScottK: if you remove it, it will break upgrades
[21:08] <pochu> amule-common is a real package
[21:08] <sebner> ScottK: webserver stuff
[21:08] <pochu> it's a replaces because some files where moved from amule-common to amule
[21:08] <ScottK> When?
[21:09] <sebner> ScottK: our svn version -> debian resync
[21:09] <pochu> ScottK: in hardy it's in amule-common
[21:09] <ScottK> pochu: OK.  It's needed then.
[21:09] <ScottK> Thanks.
[21:10] <pochu> I can ask dato to add it to the Debian package, so we can sync in the future
[21:10] <sebner> pochu: sync \o/ :) I'll file it then :P
[21:11] <sebner> ScottK: are you happy that I made a screenshot? Bonus points?  ^ ^
[21:11] <ajmitch> hi
[21:14] <ScottK> sebner: Ack'ed.
[21:14]  * sebner  hugs ScottK =)
[21:14] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Would you have a look at bug #260471
[21:15] <sebner> ScottK: It is possible.  <--- HAHA :)
[21:15] <ScottK> It's not there yet.
[21:15] <pochu> sebner: btw, tango icons look nicer ;)
[21:16]  * DktrKranz looks
[21:16] <pochu> sebner: switch to them in preferences :)
[21:16] <sebner> pochu: lol
[21:16] <pochu> sebner: feel free to subscribe to amule bugs, it's low traffic lol :P
[21:16] <sebner> pochu: hehe
[21:17] <ScottK> jdong: You around?  I've got a backports policy question.
[21:18] <sebner> pochu: tango = tangerine? ^^
[21:19] <pochu> sebner: dato is committing the replaces bit to git
[21:19] <pochu> will be available in the next upload
[21:19] <DktrKranz> sebner, ScottK: fine for me too.
[21:19] <sebner> pochu: great. /me is already keen to sync stuff for jaunty :D
[21:19] <sebner> DktrKranz: thanks ;D
[21:19] <pochu> hehe
[21:20] <DktrKranz> sebner, now get superpowers and upload it yourself, Y.R.B.
[21:20] <sebner> pochu: DktrKranz : I still need a sponsors ACK
[21:20] <sebner> DktrKranz: S. I. K. Y.  , Not enough time to be added to the group :P
[21:21] <DktrKranz> please grant sebner a MCe (MOTU Council exception)
[21:21] <sebner> ROFL
[21:22] <sebner> DktrKranz: What about a Se? Sebner expection ^^
[21:22] <DktrKranz> sebner, I don't like the name
[21:23] <sebner> bah :P
[21:24] <ScottK> pochu: Would you do the amule upload?
[21:25] <DktrKranz> pochu, if you lack time, I could have a look later
[21:25] <DktrKranz> (but not too sure about it)
[21:25]  * pochu doesn't have where to test ATM
[21:25] <pochu> so if you can, that would be great
[21:26] <pochu> sebner: what about applying for MOTUship?
[21:26] <DktrKranz> well... my ISP is blocking amule connections, so I can test if it builds and installs only
[21:26] <sebner> pochu: why?
[21:26] <sebner> DktrKranz: what about my nice picture :P
[21:26] <DktrKranz> sebner, we are *scared* of your future sync/merge requests for jauntyu
[21:27] <pochu> sebner: to not need sponsors ;)
[21:27] <sebner> pochu: hehe, at least forget it for intrepid cycle (not that long though ^^)
[21:27] <sebner> DktrKranz: YOU or the archive admins? ^^
[21:27] <pochu> haha
[21:28] <DktrKranz> sebner, they don't get queried
[21:28] <DktrKranz> as you do with me :D
[21:28] <pochu> lol
[21:28]  * sebner hides
[21:28]  * pochu goes to study
[21:28] <sebner> pochu: hf if possible ^^
[21:29] <DktrKranz> sebner, no hideout for you, I know them all
[21:29] <pochu> boson - core package for Boson
[21:29] <pochu> lol at the description
[21:29] <pochu> bbl
[21:29] <DktrKranz> pochu, what about "boson - boson, what else you need to know?"
[21:30] <DktrKranz> gah, my i386 debomatic machine is down, so I need to push it to PPA to have it tested :/
[21:33] <DktrKranz> sebner, are you able to open packages.u.c ?
[21:33]  * DktrKranz not
[21:33] <sebner> DktrKranz: yep, b0rken. was working some hours ago though
[21:34]  * DktrKranz hopes in rmadison now
[21:34] <sebner> DktrKranz: rmadison?
[21:35] <DktrKranz> rmadison -u ubuntu amule-common
[21:36]  * sebner learns everyday something new =)
[21:36] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Did that one a while ago http://paste.ubuntu.com/61197/
[21:36] <ScottK> DktrKranz: BTW, -u ubuntu is default now.
[21:36] <sebner> hrhr
[21:37] <sebner> ScottK: what wlan do you have?
[21:37] <ScottK> What do you mean?
[21:37] <DktrKranz> ScottK, ah... need to adjust my aliases then
[21:37] <sebner> ScottK: wlancard
[21:37] <sebner> ScottK: ah sry, ignore me
[21:38] <pkern> Sadly Debian's rmadison doesn't know about -u.
[21:38] <ScottK> Ah.  I'm on a desktop here, but my laptop is intel 4965
[21:38] <DktrKranz> pkern, really?
[21:39] <sebner> ScottK: he missread something. I thought you didn't use intrepid earlier because of br0ken wlan support. But it's about kde and nm
[21:40] <ScottK> sebner: Yes.  That was fixed around beta time.
[21:40] <sebner> ScottK: he = me xD
[21:40] <ScottK> It was due to NetworkManager 0.7 getting uploaded before KNetworkManager had been updated to the new API.
[21:40] <sebner> ScottK: using unstable isn't that bad. AFAIK xorg only broke 2 times. Ok, Nvidia around 10 times but that's not necessary for life ^^
[21:41] <ScottK> sebner: It's one thing if you are a student.  It's another when you need these boxes for $WORK.
[21:41] <DktrKranz> sebner, testbuilding amule right now
[21:42] <sebner> ScottK: a student also has to use them. ok work is different but 1 or 2 days with broken Xorg in 6 months is pretty good :D
[21:42] <sebner> DktrKranz: \o/
[21:42] <ScottK> Yes, but you know that after, not before.
[21:42] <sebner> ScottK: to make it more funny /me only has *1* box/laptop
[21:43] <DktrKranz> sebner, I hope it will bypass my ISP filters, or borrow me some free internet, please
[21:43] <sebner> DktrKranz: letter is already on his way :P
[21:43]  * DktrKranz is angry when a State decide to block *illegal* peer-to-peer traffic
[21:43] <sebner> hrhr
[21:43] <DktrKranz> where "illegal" = "I need to test if something works"
[21:43] <sebner> DktrKranz: proxies doesn't work?
[21:43] <pkern> DktrKranz: rly
[21:46] <sebner> DktrKranz: amule takes pretty long to build :\
[21:46] <DktrKranz> how long?
[21:47] <sebner> DktrKranz: /here 5-10 minutes
[21:47] <sebner> DktrKranz: more likely around 10 ^^
[21:47] <DktrKranz> not too bad, I uploaded to PPA
[21:48] <DktrKranz> since my i386 box is out of business for now
[21:48] <sebner> DktrKranz: well for a small desktop app it's pretty long :\
[21:48] <DktrKranz> Finished:  	 2008-07-01  (took 24 minutes)
[21:48] <DktrKranz> porc...
[21:49] <sebner> hehe
[22:34] <pochu> sebner: http://git.debian.org/?p=collab-maint/amule.git;a=commitdiff;h=73d577f5b4c7bc0d8d9add33b429eb6881fc6db4
[22:43] <DktrKranz> mh, my PPA builds have stalled...