[00:03] <bmk789> is it normal for the ume-laucher to be slow?
[00:04] <persia> bmk789, What are you running?
[00:05] <bmk789> intrepid on a centrino duo 1.5ghz
[00:05] <bmk789> behaved the same before i upgraded from hardy
[00:08] <persia> I don't see ume-launcher in intrepid, which is the part that confuses me.
[00:08] <persia> Do you maybe have alternate entries also in your sources.list?
[00:09] <bmk789> doesnt the mobile version use ume-launcher from a PPA?
[00:09] <persia> No.
[00:10] <persia> apt-get install ubuntu-mobile.
[00:10] <bmk789> ok maybe im thinking of the wrong mobile
[00:11] <bmk789> ok its netbook remix, not mobile, my mistake
[00:12] <persia> Ah.  That makes sense.  Yeah, I think they do use a PPA.  Don't know anything about it though.
[00:15] <Teiana> can i find somewhere the .config for the original ubuntu-mobile kernel ?
[00:16] <Teiana> please forgot what i said
[00:16] <Teiana> don't kill me :)
[00:20] <persia> Teiana, /boot/ shoudl have it :)
[00:22] <ogra> bmk789, ume-launcher (or netbook-launcher as its called in intrepid) needs a graphics card with full GL and composite support 
[00:23] <Teiana> thanks :)
[00:23] <ogra> dont use the PPA packages in intrepid ! all packages the netbook remix used are in the archive
[00:25] <bmk789> ogra: so i can remove the ppa and still have all the packages?
[00:25] <Teiana> what is the PPA packages ?
[00:26] <ogra> ume-launcher was renamed to netbook-launcher, all the others have the same name they had in the PPA, yes, you *should* remove the PPA these packages are all compiled against hardy libraries
[00:27] <bmk789> ogra: great, thanks
[00:28] <bmk789> works so much better now
[00:30] <ogra> bmk789, send kisses, flowers and beer to james_w :)
[00:32] <Exaltia> *dcc send roses : Error, protocol_non_virtual_items: Not implemented ;)
[00:36] <Exaltia> what the... i promised i didn't drinked, i saw 2 ian_brasil!
[00:37] <persia> ian_brasil has many avatars.
[00:38] <Exaltia> :)
[00:38] <james_w> ogra: there are Intrepid packages in the PPA
[00:39] <ogra> james_w, oh, really ? 
[00:39] <ogra> thats not so good 
[00:39] <ogra> we'll never manage to keep them in sync
[00:39] <james_w> yeah
[00:39] <james_w> I think it's due to there focus on stable releases
[00:40] <persia> It's a PPA.  The PPA team should be able to do what they like.
[00:40] <ogra> which is fine, but people hat used the PPA manually in hardy might get experimental packages from the intrepid PPA
[00:40] <ogra> intsead of the stable ones 
[00:41] <Exaltia> i may look dumb (if it's not already done) but what means ppa ?
[00:41] <ogra> i guess neil wont stop building test packages even after release 
[00:41] <persia> ogra, Yeah, well, tell them not to do that.
[00:41] <persia> If people sign up for a PPA, they get the risks of a PPA.
[00:41] <ogra> he should better put them in a separate PPA 
[00:42] <persia> Why?
[00:42] <ogra> persia, well, they will never be aware there are stable packages otherwise
[00:42] <persia> Yes, but if they signed up for a PPA, they may well want the PPA packages.
[00:43] <ogra> so do you want to debug their issues here ?
[00:44] <ogra> i'm fine dong that for the packages we have in the official archive ... but having to dig into peoples sources.lists to find out what they use to find out if a bug is in our package will just be painful
[00:45] <persia> Only long enough to determine that they are using a PPA, and suggest that they not do so.
[00:45] <persia> I don't see that it's any different than any other PPA.  I refuse to try to monitor PPAs to determine who broke what.
[00:46] <ogra> but the PPA was the only way to get the packages in hardy
[00:46] <ogra> so most people using UNR in hardy will have it 
[00:46] <persia> That's true of *lots* of packages for every release since PPAs existed.
[00:46] <ogra> yes, and it makes support very painful
[00:47] <persia> Yes.  That's one of the things I've learned to dislike about PPAs.
[00:47] <persia> On the other hand, I'm not going to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their PPA : I'll simply recommend users not use PPAs.
[00:48] <persia> If users choose to use PPAs, that means they may get limited support from me.
[00:48] <ogra> Exaltia, PPA = Presonal PAckage Archive (on launchpad.net)
[00:48] <ogra> well, the situation is special here
[00:48] <persia> (depends on the package : if it's not a PPA package, and it's one I can support, I'll support someone using a PPA for other packages)
[00:48] <persia> Why is it special?
[00:48] <ogra> if they wanted the apps in hardy, they were forced to the PPA
[00:49] <persia> How is the UNR PPA different from e.g. the UbuntuEEE repo?
[00:49] <ogra> if they upgrade to intrepid the PPA is still there
[00:49] <ogra> do we have the eee packages in the archive ? 
[00:49] <persia> Well, update-manager will disable it on upgrade, unless that PPA has a special update-manager.
[00:49] <ogra> and do they go on developing them with the stable release name tagged to it ? 
[00:49] <ogra> ah
[00:50] <ogra> ok, then we should be fairly safe ... unless they are stupid enough to use apt-get dist-upgrade :P
[00:50] <ogra> i.e. because u-m didnt fit the screen in hardy :)
[00:51] <persia> Yeah, well, there will always be systems that aren't configured properly.  All we can do is educate, and encourage people to use the standard repositories as much as possible.
[00:51] <ogra> no
[00:52] <ogra> first we need to find out that their systems are not configured properly
[00:52] <ogra> which can take you hours
[00:53] <persia> Actually, asking if someone has a third-party repo enabled is usually my first question when I get lost providing support in an area I think I understand.
[00:55] <Exaltia> thanks ogra
[01:49] <Exaltia> looks like linux-kernel-devel doesn't exist in the packages list
[01:49] <Exaltia> (found such package name in the howto to recompile the ubuntu kernel)
[01:50] <persia> Exaltia, apt-get soruce linux-image-2.6.27; apt-get build-dep linux-image-2.6.27
[01:50] <Exaltia> can i kiss you ? :)
[01:52] <persia> Difficult over IRC.
[01:54] <Exaltia> :)
[01:54] <Exaltia> Exaltia has quit irc [Buffer overflow] ;)
[02:06] <persia> OK.  I've completed a round of testing on the current images.  If anyone else wants a go : see http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/ubuntumobile/all
[02:16] <Exaltia> taking it, will try tomorow :)
[02:17] <Exaltia> (on a virtual machine by the way, no more physical computer available for tests atm)
[02:25] <Exaltia> persia : just reread a bit of what you said with ogra about ppa
[02:26] <Exaltia> if someone use such ppa, will it be ok to tell those user something like "hey, this is ppa, for support, don't contact ubuntu, contact X" ?
[02:27] <persia> Well, I usually say something like "I'm sorry, I'm not sure how that package might have been modified from the standard sources.  You might want to ask the patch author."  "don't contact ubuntu" is a very strong phrase, and most users who use PPAs *should* contact Ubuntu for the majority of their issues.
[02:29] <Exaltia> it was no more than a rhougly example flavored by tiredness (?) :)
[02:29] <persia> No worries.  I am just (perhaps overly) particular about phrasing and nomenclature.
[02:29] <Exaltia> i understand
[02:31] <Exaltia> i think i "fall" under those ppa users afterall
[02:32] <persia> Exaltia, So, as a PPA user, do you feel like you don't get support?  Do you feel that we're being overly strict when we can't help you with PPA packages?
[02:32] <Exaltia> not at all :)
[02:32] <Exaltia> you got a point :)
[02:34] <Exaltia> but
[02:34] <persia> but?
[02:35] <Exaltia> what are the obligations if a company start to give ppa to their customers ? based on ubuntu, is this allowed, first ? (maybe the most suitable channel for that is #ubuntu?)
[02:38] <persia> I think it's permitted.  There are some restrictions about nomenclature related to the use of the term "Ubuntu" if changes are applied, although the specific thresholds aren't something I understand clearly.
[02:39] <persia> Most importantly, I think you can't claim that something is "Ubuntu" unless it is derived from the official archives directly, except in certain jurisdictions or with certain preapprovals.
[02:42] <Exaltia> in that case, it is derivated from ubuntu-mobile to be precise what i've just done is to build my own ppa, derivated from an official repository, who i added a few package, and maintaining it in a "desyncronised" manner
[02:45] <persia> I think that's either a "remix" or a "derivative", although I'm not sure exactly which.
[02:47] <Exaltia> i'm gonna bookmark the legal section of ubuntu site, as i'm sure there's one, and readingit carefuly tomorow, or it will my brain who will be remixed, it's 4am there :)
[02:48] <Exaltia> thanks again for all the help
[02:48] <persia> No problem.  Good luck with your project.
[02:53] <Exaltia> that's what i've said first "don't contact ubuntu" i would feel 1000000000000% culprit to rely to an open comunity for support on a thing i've, as a company, modified myself, better word would probably be "unfair"
[02:54] <persia> Certainly.  There are ways to integrate, and if you were actively improving Ubuntu, rather than having a separate patchset, and offering sales/support for Ubuntu, I suspect there wouldn't be any confusion.
[02:54] <persia> With a separate patchset, you probably have to be more careful.
[02:57] <Exaltia> ok
[02:57] <Exaltia> i'm going, would be a pleasure to talk later, good night everybody
[06:34] <lool> heya
[10:47] <Exaltia> greetings there
[11:10] <Exaltia> persia : finally, the trademark legal notice on ubuntu site is very explicit , as it's not permiting to use ubuntu name and artwork for commercial use :)
[11:11] <persia> Exaltia, I'm glad you found an authoritative resource with the information you seek.
[11:12] <Exaltia> :)
[12:36] <sharp_eyes> hi
[12:36] <sharp_eyes> how are u all
[12:37] <sharp_eyes> is this ubuntu for moiles
[12:37] <sharp_eyes> ????
[12:37] <kunwon1> sharp_eyes, yes
[12:37] <kunwon1> sharp_eyes, check out the channel topic, has cd images
[12:38] <persia> Well, USB images, but something to test or install.
[12:59] <persia> Team meeting in #ubuntu-meeting.
[13:21] <blackgold> any tool to configure external monitor resolution? included applet dont allow to change resolutions at all. (ubuntu-mid)
[13:23] <blackgold> with external monitor disconnected, aspire one boot into correct laptop res of 1024x600, with connected, both displays use 640x480
[13:26] <ian_brasil> blackgold: you are running ubuntu-mid on an aspire one?
[13:26] <blackgold> yes
[13:27] <ian_brasil> i am running ubuntu-mobile and the second monitor works fine
[13:27] <blackgold> what is difference between mid and mobile?
[13:28] <ian_brasil> mid id based on hildon
[13:28] <ian_brasil> mobile is more a standard gnome with some ui tweaks
[13:29] <blackgold> so... you have 1024x600 on aspire one and 1280x1024 or something on external display? mine is 1680x1050 20"
[13:29] <blackgold> i just want to use correct resolution on my external display
[13:29] <ian_brasil> yes, the external picks up the same res as the screen IIRC
[13:30] <ian_brasil> i did not need to configure anything anyway
[13:31] <blackgold> good to hear, i'll try mobile then. hildon also segfault if i try to run openarena and glxgears gives only 120 fps
[13:32] <blackgold> on linpus it was 400 fps or something
[13:33] <blackgold> (and they still not updated openarena package for interpid, 0.8 release was long ago)
[13:33] <ian_brasil> well hildon is for a much smaller form factor and i do not think much optimization has been done for running stuff
[13:33] <persia> certainly not for openarena :)
[13:33] <ian_brasil> we run true combat elite on ubuntu mobile here and it rocks
[13:33] <blackgold> cool
[13:34] <blackgold> i thought that mobile mean mobile phone or something :P
[13:34] <persia> Yeah.  Mobile should be clean for gaming.
[13:34] <persia> No.  Mobile computer.  Like a laptop, except not so big.
[13:35] <blackgold> i probably may just install correct mobile package or gnome desktop or something? without reinstalling from mobile image?
[13:40] <persia> blackgold, You can't easily switch from MID to Mobile or Desktop.  You can freely switch between Desktop and Mobile (apt-get install ubuntu-desktop vs. apt-get install ubuntu-mobile)
[13:42] <blackgold> i see. thanks guys
[13:42] <ogra> persia, why wouldnt that work on -mid ? 
[13:42] <ogra> the packages should be there
[13:43] <ogra> nobody has tested that, but still ... it should be possible
[13:43] <persia> ogra, arch-dependent compilation flags on lpia.  WIthout a hildon desktop, lots of stuff breaks.
[13:43] <persia> I'll write a spec for jaunty, and file bugs.
[13:44] <ogra> ah, right, i always forget about that
[13:51] <ian_brasil> paste.ubuntu.com/61509/
[13:55] <persia> ian_brasil, risky to hardcode sda, but probably safe for devices with only one source of secondary storage.
[13:56] <ian_brasil> persia:yes it seems like a sane default
[13:56] <ogra> and you wouldnt want ext3 if your target is an SSD
[13:57] <ian_brasil> right
[13:57] <persia> Unless you have something that uses e.g. /dev/mmcblk0p1, /dev/mmcblk0p2, /dev/mmcblk0p3
[13:57] <ogra> whats wrong with using UUID ? 
[14:00] <Exaltia> could it be possible that NetWorkManager has trouble handling right wifi with hidden ssid ?
[14:08] <ian_brasil> maybe use  LogFS if it is SSD ?
[14:09] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ blkid /dev/sda1
[14:09] <ogra> /dev/sda1: UUID="cb9aedc3-6a43-42e6-a732-bc76cc0c6276" TYPE="ext3" SEC_TYPE="ext2"
[14:09] <ogra> use blkid :)
[14:09] <ian_brasil> ogra: cool!
[14:18] <ogra> ian_brasil, ls /dev/disk/by-uuid/
[14:19] <ogra> for the counterpart
[14:25] <ian_brasil> ogra: will look at that , thx
[16:55] <ian_brasil> just reread the meeting..i have a server with webfaction and can temporarily host www.ubuntumobile.org and www.ubuntumid.org (well, depending on expected traffic anyway...they might be a bit pissed with me if it eats up lots of webfaction bandwidth)
[21:37] <superm1> Hi, i just grabbed the last ubuntu-mid daily from today and loaded it onto a mini 9 just to take a look at things.  Is the font supposed to be as large as I'm seeing it? I have to scroll through the list of networks offscreen in network manager - and there are only 7 networks here..
[21:41] <superm1> oh i suppose the mobile flavour makes more sense for this device  than the mid flavour