[00:15] Wow. Big changes in Debian. [00:16] good or bad? [00:16] hang on, big changes? with lenny in freeze? [00:18] wgrant: Are you talking about the firmware shitfight? [00:18] Argh. Whoops! Sorry. [00:18] The DM/DME/DD/blahblah. [00:20] That's obviously on some Debian list I don't follow. [00:21] debian-devel-announce. [00:21] Which, if one follows any Debian lists, should probably be near the top of important lists. [00:21] Indeed. [00:21] It's the only Debian list I'm completely up to date on. [00:21] Whats DME? [00:21] wgrant, ^ [00:21] Debian Member. [00:22] Debian has members? [00:22] Aaah. [00:22] Just hit that mail :) [00:22] * NCommander blinks [00:22] NCommander: See the d-d-a mail. [00:22] Also DC. [00:22] * NCommander feels like Debian just pulled an Ubuntu [00:22] DME is a lovely step. Nice to see that. [00:22] It is excellent. [00:23] i've got my own page on packages.qa.debian.org, what do i get to be? ^_^ [00:23] And DC is DM for DME? Do I understand that right? [00:23] persia: I think so. [00:24] * persia should really apply for DM one of these days. [00:24] I think my head hurts [00:25] persia: But digging around for a sponsor hours before Lenny's freeze is fun! [00:25] persia, if your interested in becoming a Debian Maintainer or Debian Developer, I'd be willing to work w/ you on this goal. [00:26] wgrant, digging around for a sponsor hours after intrepid's freeze is also fun [00:26] wgrant, I suppose. I've not been so active lately, but a couple weeks ago there were no RC bugs against my packages (and I am short on time these days). [00:26] directhex: But sponsorship in Ubuntu isn't stupid. [00:26] directhex, finding Ubuntu sponsors are less of a headache [00:26] NCommander, i've found it much much easier to get uploads into debian, tbh [00:26] That depends on the team, I suspect. [00:26] yeah, RAOF has a point [00:26] Since directhex is fairly core in Debian Mono :) [00:27] yet i always need to beg for hours->days->weeks for an ubuntu upload [00:27] And even I find it easy enough to get new CIL packages uploaded. [00:27] thank god for the post-lentrepid mono syncing plan [00:28] Yah. We might actually want to get some form of active mono team happening (which would necessarily involve a core-dev) [00:28] Generating a new core-dev might be useful there. [00:29] could we clone slomo? he was always good for mono, but is too busy nowadays [00:29] * persia suspects that cloning slomo would result in two busy slomos [00:29] persia: But maybe one of the busy slomos could be busy with mono! [00:29] bleh [00:29] RAOF, Maybe :) [00:30] anyway, i think mono has a vibrant & active developer base which on paper is focused on debian, and uploadwise is focused on debian, but i know myself and i suspect RAOF too are actually doing development & testing on ubuntu first & foremost [00:31] all we need is a hard-line to a core dev, for those times when i can't beg pitti [00:31] since pitti is hardly a man of free time either [00:32] Well, there are currently two routes. Either find a MOTU who keeps touching mono and convince them to apply for core-dev, or wait until the TB has determined the procedure for non-MOTU to apply for upload to main, and use that. [00:33] i strongly suspect the unwritten "whoever touched it last is first contact" rule is at least as much to blame for "i ain't touching it" responses as fud blogs making mono sound like the devil === mcasadevall is now known as NCommander [00:37] anyway, bedtime [00:37] Yeah. I never really liked the TIL principle. [00:38] persia, i'd MUCH rather people contact me, or even original-maintainer (which goes to me and a few others), in the case of the mono stack - since i reckon we're rather more comfortable with the packages than people like pitti or slangasek [00:39] directhex, Don't you end up with TIL because of Changed-By: ? [00:39] but, y'know, whatever. i'm certainly not unhappy about intrepid's mono (for one thing, it's great that lenny & intrepid will ship the same version). but jaunty's mono will be light years ahead [00:39] Hrm. Oddly not reliably. [00:40] persia, oh i dunno. i certainly haven't been notified of ubuntuX bumps since i took on packaging duties [00:40] anyway, bedtime, i mean it this time [00:49] RAOF: what's this about mono stuff? [00:51] ajmitch: We'd like quick and easy access to a core-dev mono sponsor :). And by "we" I mean "mostly directhex"! [00:52] push really hard for ArchiveReorganisation ;-) [00:52] * persia peers carefully at ajmitch's groups membership. [00:52] crimsun, Doesn't really help that much : changes the problem to needing somone on the Desktop Development team (which currently doesn't exist). [00:52] persia: I'm not in groups :) [00:53] ajmitch, You are the very basis of groups. [00:53] why, because I'm in core-dev but not motu or even ubuntumembers? [00:53] pfft, I'm not in any of those three! [00:53] you were [00:53] yeah well... [00:54] * ajmitch decided to renew at least 1 of them [00:54] crimsun, you know : you could reapply. Threshold is low for previous members ... [00:54] especially previous members like crimsun [00:55] * persia isn't sure that it's not an oily slide in this case [00:55] I suspect reapplying for core-dev will be a rubberstamp at most [00:59] ajmitch, if you're a member of core-dev then you're a member of ubuntumembers [01:00] cody-somerville: yes I know [01:01] ajmitch, and if you're not careful, we might add you to motu :P [01:01] you have no reason to [02:13] NCommander: I read the dda announcement as rather the opposite. [02:14] ?? [02:14] Instead of being an Ubuntu, I read it as "Gee, we've got a light weight process that is working smoothly. Le't make it harder." [02:14] oh [02:14] I wonder when this was passed [02:15] ScottK: the lack of sleep never helps [02:15] :D [02:16] Dunno. I'm not aware of the current DM process leading to any problem DMs. [02:16] But clearly it's too easy so it needs to be made harder. [02:17] DM as in Debian Maintainer? [02:17] ScottK, How was it made harder? I read it as offering the DC and DME categories for non-developers as parallel to DM/DD. Good news for translators, porters, etc. [02:17] True for the DC route (that being new). [02:18] Currently to get DM you had to be sponsored by one DD and have no one object. [02:18] * persia reads the email again [02:18] That's gotten morphed into some mini-NM process with questions, answers, and reviews. [02:19] Currently if you are a DM and want the right to upload a package, all you have to do is convince your sponsor (or any DD) to add the DM allowed flag to debian/control [02:19] ScottK, Indeed. I see your point. [02:19] This message creates a new review process and a separate list. [02:20] Hrm. I guess I should have applied last week. [02:20] Finally, the statement that it takes no power out of the hands of DDs is not correct. [02:20] Previously, any DD had the right to authorize a DM to upload a package. That has been taken away. [02:21] And DD vote diluted (although I consider that good, as I think DME is good). === LucidFox_ is now known as LucidFox [02:21] Anyway, there are forums for this discussion, and this isn't one of them :) [02:21] So for at least that part of it, I read it more as , "Hey, we've got this fast, light weight process that's working well. Let's fix that." [02:21] That's a little too sarcastic. [02:21] Maybe there was a problem DM? [02:21] Yes, but only a little. [02:21] Maybe. [02:22] The original DM process dealt with how to resolve such problems too. [02:22] So back to my original point, compared to Debian, I think Ubuntu tends to be lightweight process wise and rather more agile. [02:23] ScottK: way more [02:23] So this was a step in the opposite direction IMO. [02:25] I think Ubuntu is different. Many things seem to be lightweight, but other things are less so. It's a different way of coordinating things. Some things are easier, some things are harder. [02:25] * ajmitch goes to cactch up on debian-devel [02:25] ajmitch: It's d-d-a. [02:26] yeah, and followups on debian-project [02:26] Perhaps I ought to subscribe to that one. [02:26] OTOH, maybe not. [02:26] ajmitch: Is this a proposal or is it the new order? [02:26] \o/ i can read those ML from here [02:27] The message doesn't actually say. [02:27] "This was initially written by me, then discussed within DAM (so take [02:27] us two for we) and then discussed with DSA, FTPMaster, [02:27] Keyring-Maint, Secretary, FrontDesk and the DPL. [02:27] " [02:27] but not stated if it's actually a policy yet [02:28] ScottK: Developer Status e-mail? [02:28] Yes. [02:29] * ScottK reads the archive now. [02:30] Wasn't DM passed by GR? [02:30] so far there hasn't been much discussion about it [02:30] SHouldn't this pass too by GR? [02:30] ajmitch, most people are still flaming about firmware in linux-2.6 [02:30] NCommander: most likely, and it'll probably require a GR [02:30] NCommander: Yes, but now the ftp-masters are annoyed that they have been bypassed [02:30] ON linux-2.6, or DMs? [02:31] * StevenK is talking about DMs [02:31] I see that Raphael Geissert has already made most of my points. [02:31] ? [02:32] * ScottK tries to decide if he should feel more or less motivated to work on NM. [02:32] ScottK: If you pass NM now, you get grandfathered in [02:33] StevenK, so as long as I don't get rejected, I should be ok :-) [02:33] Hrm? 6-month waiting time? [02:33] persia: you can't rush these things [02:34] What 6-month waiting time? :-P [02:34] ScottK: i get the same feeling as you "it's too easy, let's fix it" [02:34] ajmitch, It's that I didn't think that anyone ever complained the process was too fast. [02:36] what!? 6 month wait [02:36] that's crazy [02:36] It's already taken me more than 6 months, so that's not a problem. [02:37] * StevenK declines to state how long he was in NM [02:37] StevenK, yes, we all know about your two day NM :-P [02:37] * NCommander runs [02:37] It wasn't two days [02:37] I thought it was like one or two [02:37] Closer to a week, but still [02:40] why did it took you so less [02:40] my NM process has been frozen for like 4 months [02:40] nxvl, cause he applied in '01 [02:40] they state i'm a good candidate, but that i haven't to much uploads [02:41] oh [02:41] * NCommander had three uploads at the time of NM ... [02:41] :-) [02:41] NCommander: you are DD already? [02:41] Waiting on the DAM [02:41] ^to make my account [02:41] so a week or so [02:42] NCommander: That probably means this is a really good time to be outspoken about this new proposal. [02:42] I didn't think the DD process was changing [02:42] You still had to finish P&P 1+2 and T&S 1+@ [02:43] it says that you are waiting for FD [02:43] argh [02:43] Wotcher didn't update it [02:43] Oh well [02:43] I'll be waiting for the DAM relatively soon ;-) [02:58] I guess today is "Paul Hummer Day" on planet. [02:58] heh [02:58] ScottK: tomorrow it can be your day if you want [02:59] If I wanted, every day could be my day. [03:02] that's the power of being ScottK [03:02] :P [03:02] I was shocked to see ScottK posting [03:02] what's next? ScottK praising launchpad? [03:02] same here, happy, but shocked [03:03] ajmitch: Unlikely. [03:03] Although apparently they are going to open up all their design documentation in the next week or two. No more secret specs. [03:03] That's progress. [03:03] that's great to hear [03:04] they as in? [03:04] ah launchpad [03:04] i missed that line === coppro is now known as crappo === crappo is now known as coppro [04:10] * ScottK wonders where all the busy MOTU trying to get last minute bug fixes in have gone? [04:11] they ran away? [04:11] I guess. [04:12] i'm not sure how much stuff in universe there is that should be fixed for release. [04:12] * persia is busy testing RC candidates, but plans to attack RCbugs post-RC. [04:12] Hobbsee, There's lots of unmetdeps, there's still a bunch of ftbfs, and there's RCbugs. [04:13] how late is too late? [04:13] * Hobbsee is iso testing as well [04:13] Monday. [04:13] monday US time? :) [04:13] * ajmitch has a 3-day weekend [04:13] Or maybe UTC, depending on when people get up in the morning. [04:15] * wgrant ponders quickly adding an 'unimportant' flag to rcbugs. [04:15] comments not enough for now? [04:16] or you just want some easier way to be able to skip them? [04:16] The list of cherrypickings is growing. [04:16] Yes. [04:16] So things like cherrypicked fixes would be marked as unimportant, as they'd somewhat fade away,. [04:17] special comment or other thing that causes the bug to just not be displayed? [04:17] You mean a way to mark that a cherrypick is complete, so it drops off the list? [04:17] persia: Basically, yes. [04:17] Or that it doesn't affect Ubuntu, or something else. [04:17] My practice has basically been to ignore anything that had a comment when doing a final sweep, unless the comment was an RFS. [04:18] It'd be only a few lines to add such a field to comments and alter the CSS. [04:19] right, hiding in CSS may be the quickest way [04:19] or marking in a different colour [04:20] Don't suppose we could have a nifty javascript button at the top that wangled the CSS to show/hide such things? [04:20] wouldn't be hard [04:21] We could also easily just split them into another section, like MoM does with updated/new. [04:21] * wgrant will think more post-lunch. [04:21] That's probably easier to review. [05:28] Good morning. [05:32] * wgrant points at the new functionality on rcbugs [05:32] * wgrant demotes lots of existing ones. [05:32] \o/ [05:46] wgrant: ah good, you implemented it? [05:47] ajmitch: It looks like it. [05:47] nice, so you have to attach the demotion to a comment [05:48] seems like it could work well [05:48] I thought that was the easiest way to implement it, given that we don't have bug objects in the DB. [05:48] And I don't want silent demotions. === txwikinger2 is now known as txwikinger [06:18] good morning [06:26] Morning dholbach. [06:26] hi iulian === Adri2000_ is now known as Adri2000 === geser__ is now known as geser [07:38] Hi dholbach [07:39] hi geser [09:01] I know it's probably impertinent, but could this be the right place to point to a blocker for abiword on intrepid? -> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/284857 [09:01] Launchpad bug 284857 in abiword "Abiword crashes on using "Create and modify styles..." from the format menu" [Undecided,New] [09:04] annimar, I'd recommend #xubuntu-devel, as they are probably the most interested party at this point in the cycle, and you'd need their approval anyway to change it. [09:05] persia: I would, but the bug doesn't affect xubuntu. It's Ubuntu-only. [09:07] Wait. It works in Xubuntu, but doesn't work in Ubuntu? [09:07] * persia looks at the bug more carefully. [09:08] persia: that's right. [09:09] annimar, Did you report or comment on the bug? [09:09] I reported it [09:09] persia, should be reproducable on all ubuntu installations [09:11] annimar, Interesting. It looks like an issue with not finding ubuntulooks. The workaround is to install gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks on Ubuntu. [09:11] I'll update the bug with the workaround, but it's still the Xubuntu devs who would be the ones to update the package. === tbf1 is now known as tbf [09:13] persia, thank you. Should I try to get in touch with the xubuntu devs on irc? [09:13] persia, so this is a dependency problem, right? [09:13] annimar, If you want a fast response, yes, although if they are busy, they may not be able to help you now. [09:14] Yes, it's a dependency issue (see my comment in the bug). [09:14] thanks a lot. I'll try to get someone of the xubuntu devs on irc [09:14] bye [09:18] monring [09:20] is it? :( [09:20] Depends on where you are, what timezone you choose to follow, and how one defines morning. [09:21] not sure where to ask, but i noticed svn 1.5.3 has been released however [09:21] doh [09:21] sorry [09:21] just released i hadn't updated [09:23] well, somewhere in the world is always "morning", somewhere else is "afternoon" and somewhere else is "evening". Hard to tell, then ;) [09:24] frith, Barring exceptional circumstances, it won't be included in Ubuntu until next month, at which time you'd want to file a backport (assuming nobody tries to go to 1.6) [09:24] persia, 1.6? [09:26] frith, Yep. Watch http://svn.collab.net/repos/svn/trunk/www/svn_1.6_releasenotes.html carfully for news. [09:26] that is a pretty fast development cycle, [09:27] Dunno if it will happen. I doubt it personally. I'm just not 100% sure which version will be available next month when subversion is next updated. [09:28] I think i might just build my own 1.5.3 packages for giggles [09:28] Could do. If they work well, consider sharing them next month. [09:29] no problem [09:33] does anybody remember the plans to remove glib-1.2 from Debian, and eventually has some references to it? [09:38] DktrKranz, Those plans have been tossed about for at least 18 months. There are a few persistently stubborn applications. One chain starts at ctsim, but when compiled against newer libraries it segfaults on startup, and upstream is hostile to porting at this time. Another starts with searchandrescue, but upstream is inactive, and it needs to have the entire joystick interface ported to a different API (it's a flight simulator, so getting thi [09:38] s right is key). [09:39] \o/ [09:39] persia: thanks [09:39] I suspect there are more, but those are the two that I've previously stumbled against. [09:39] fixing ctsim also means dropping wx2.4 [09:40] I heard of it in the past, but I didn't see any progress on that, now I realized why [09:40] fixing searchandrescue also means dropping jscalibrator, which is known to cause most USB joysticks to need to be reset after running. === tbf1 is now known as tbf === tjaalton_ is now known as tjaalton === asac__ is now known as asac [11:41] dholbach: why does it say (fedora) after the items on http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/age.html ? [11:42] ah, sorry, I see. === ember_ is now known as ember [13:19] do we need motu-release ACK for every change now, or should I just wait for an announcement? [13:29] I think we said after the RC, so it should be OK. If in doubt, feel free to ask. [13:38] it's pretty safe, just didn't want to get spanked for not following the procedure, thanks. [13:40] james_w: thanks for testing bug 287028 - I'll leave it for lfaraone to fix, seeing as it's his patch and IMO not critical [13:40] Launchpad bug 287028 in sugar "Control panel Network/Wireless error" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287028 [13:40] yeah, I think it's no trouble to just leave it unfixed in Intrepid [13:41] morgs: is there anything critical for the release you know of? [13:41] missing transitional packages or similar things? [13:41] james_w: bug 287745 is quite important, a wrong dep, has debdiff [13:41] Launchpad bug 287745 in sugar-web-activity "Installing sugar-web-activity uninstalls epiphany" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/287745 [13:42] james_w: bug 286764 seems to be the only actual failure on upgrade, I'll work on that today [13:42] Launchpad bug 286764 in sugar-hulahop "package python-hulahop 0.4.6-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/286764 [13:43] morgs: thanks, I'm looking at the first now [13:44] james_w: Is gedit-plugins the upload you just did? [13:44] ScottK: yeah [13:45] OK. [13:45] it was my fault for not sponsoring the right thing the first time around [13:45] and the diff is tiny [13:45] OK. I just asked ubuntu-release to accept it. [13:45] thanks [13:46] I'll be uploading morgs' sugar-web-activity in a minute if it passes muster, just a dep change [13:46] OK. gedit-plugins accepted. [13:46] thanks [13:58] ScottK: amule uploaded after FFe [13:58] DktrKranz: Great. [13:58] DktrKranz: don't forget to notice me :P [14:00] sebner: well... your business is already done ;) [14:01] but new version seems to bypass my ISP so... it deserves to be in :) [14:01] DktrKranz: hehe, is LP b0rken or did you miss something? [14:01] sebner: unapproved queue :) [14:02] DktrKranz: ahhhh [14:02] DktrKranz: there is quite _a lot_ in the unapproved queue ^^ [14:07] sebner: It's almost all Main stuff that will get accepted after the RC is out. To accept it now, they'd have to respin CDs. [14:07] ScottK: did you already ask to accpt cacao and xubuntu-meta, or do they need to wait after RC? [14:07] Which means now is a good time to get Universe uploads done as after the RC release, the buildd's will be busy. [14:07] ScottK: understandable but also stuff from a week ago is there [14:08] DktrKranz: xubuntu-meta would affect the xubuntu CD's so it definitely needs to wait. [14:08] DktrKranz: The cacao one is tied to some Java thing in Main, so I think it needs to wait too. [14:10] ScottK: good. I ignore it for now. Thanks. [14:20] sistpoty|work: \o/ [14:20] hi sebner [14:23] Can someone help me shed some light on the following problem: packages that are sync'ed directly from Debian has "unstable" in their latest changelog entry, whereas packages that are merged have the ubuntu release (e.g. intrepid) in the latest entry. How does the build system deal with that? I am asking because I am in the process of recompiling a bunch of local packages for intrepid, but it seems to me that I need to bump the version number of every [14:24] ... and that really annoys me [14:24] mok0: it doesn't use the information from the changelog, it uses the .changes files [14:25] james_w: yes, but can that be set somehow? [14:25] normally when you build the changelog distribution is copied to the .changes [14:25] james_w: so I do some sed magic on the _changes file? [14:25] when you sync it effectively (?) puts intrepid in the .changes, regardless of what is in the changelog [14:26] that would work [14:26] james_w: Thanks! I'll try it! [14:26] it depends on what build system you are using, you may just be able to give it a .dsc and tell it what release to build for [14:26] james_w: I am using sbuild [14:27] mok0: If you want a hint on adjusting .changes. see http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/syncpackage [14:27] sbuild *should* eat anything you pass it, although you may be blocked by front-end scripts. [14:27] ScottK: Thx a lot! [14:28] Of course sbuild may not put its distro in .changes but I will check that [14:28] mok0: You're welcome [14:28] ScottK: can we sync packages directly? [14:29] ScottK: is that THE script being used for sync'ing? [14:29] DktrKranz: Certainly not now because someone needs to accept everything and not according to the rules. [14:29] mok0: No. It's used as a backup when 'the script' is broken. [14:29] * ScottK whistles silently in the corner and doesn't recall at all why he knows about that script. [14:30] ScottK: I can probably adapt it to my local needs, though === quadrispro1 is now known as quadrispro [14:30] mok0: I suspected that would be the case. [14:31] * mok0 is happy [14:31] Actually I have a better version. Let me mail it to you. What address? [14:31] mok0: That version is a bit fragile. [14:32] mok0@ubuntu.com [14:32] :) [14:33] ScottK: CC me, I often mangle .changes myself for my local testbuilds [14:33] DktrKranz: What address? [14:34] ScottK-laptop: dktrkranz@ubuntu.com [14:34] Sent to both of you. [14:36] thanks [14:42] # [14:42] sorry (wrong tab..) [14:43] sebner: amule is gone [14:44] hey can someone help me to get my GPG key sign? [14:44] DktrKranz: great \o/ [14:50] ScottK: now RC is almost gone, we should approve every upload. Did you do it via IRC last cycle too? [14:50] or filing bugs is required? [14:50] Mostly. [14:51] I don't think we require a bug unless it's a new upstream. [14:51] ok, I'll try to keep my online presence high during these days [14:51] TiMiDo: How can we verify you are who you say you are? [14:51] last day is next monday, isn't it? [14:52] Probably Sunday, but it varies a little release to release. [14:52] mok0, well i can send you an email with my information and my id information. or show you my passport =) [14:52] Also depends on one's location. The further east you live, the later you can upload. [14:52] ok, I'll have a look at u-u-s queue too and try to review the most important stuff [14:52] TiMiDo, Best to find somebody nearby : the strong set is fairly widely distributed. BigLumber can help. [14:53] is there any ubuntu member in miami? [14:53] TiMiDo: I want to see you and your passport :-) === sistpoty|work changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | Intrepid Final Freeze: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-October/000508.html, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess | QA targets available from http://qa.ubuntuwire.com | Next MOTU meeting: Fri, October 31st 04:00 UTC [14:55] TiMiDo: I just googled this: http://www.nanog.org/mtg-0202/pgp.html [14:55] TiMiDo: perhaps you can get in touch with that guy? [14:56] next yaer [14:56] *year [14:56] For Ubuntu there is no requirement to have your key signed by anyone. [14:57] oh okey [14:57] But keysigning is fun, and everyone who uses GPG benefits from being in the strong set. [14:57] Right. It's a good thing, but not a required thing. [14:57] so you do not need you're gpg key sign. to become an ubuntu member? [14:57] No. [14:57] oh okey [14:57] cool [14:58] Some people think this is not a good thing, but that's the current rule. [14:58] * DktrKranz remembers the latest keysigning party: a few GPG keys, tons of wine and food \o/ [14:58] ScottK, and then how do i get my packages. on ubuntu? [14:58] and sebner has a photo of me doing the keysign party :) [14:59] TiMiDo: Initially you have to be sponsored. I believe that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing will point you in the right direction. [14:59] ! contribute [14:59] To contribute and help out with Ubuntu, see http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate [14:59] sigh, why does virtualbox freeze if i click "settings"? i reckon it hates me [15:00] directhex: why don't you use kvm? Just asking... [15:01] mok0, workflow. i just want a full i386 intrepid desktop in front of me, and i want it yesterday, without touching any of my other stuff [15:01] directhex: you can do that with kvm? [15:02] DktrKranz: if keysign party is a codeword for wine party then yes ^^ [15:02] TiMiDo, We don't worry so much about confirming that someone with a given piece of identification controls a given key. We focus more on the identity of a participant in the community associated with a launchpad account. When someone does consistently good work over a period of time, the GPG associated with that launchpad account may be used to authenticated packages accepted into the archives. [15:02] directhex: the virtual team has done lots of work to get kvm working smoothly [15:02] mok0, clicky gui, co conflicting with things like 3d drivers? [15:03] okey persia [15:03] directhex: I've not had any problems with kvm, even running XP [15:04] directhex: of course you need a dual cpu [15:04] directhex: a quite new one [15:04] Wine and cheese... [15:07] * sistpoty|work prefers gerstensaft and sauerbraten :P [15:08] sistpoty|work: sauerbraten? nice game :P [15:09] sebner: that's only half of the joke :P [15:09] mok0, so where does my clicky gui live then? [15:10] directhex: kvm gives you a window which is effectively the console [15:10] sistpoty|work: AH, once saw gerstensaft in debian new. What's this again? [15:10] directhex: the gui would appear inside the window [15:10] sebner: usually it's called beer :P (and now idea, never used the package myself) [15:10] s/now/no/ [15:11] sistpoty|work: I know what beer is xD [15:11] mok0, so my clicky gui requires knowing all required qemu command line flags. i seeeeeee. y'know, i don't see this as being remotely comparable to vmware workstation or virtualbox [15:11] directhex: ok, I don't really know what clicky gui you are talking about [15:12] sistpoty|work: Gerstensaft is an easy to use graphical oriented frontend for [15:12] sendfile(1) [15:12] * sistpoty|work will by a box of easy to use frontends tomorrow after work :) [15:12] sistpoty|work: xD, btw, I've heard about sauerbraten but is it the same as "schweinsbraten"? [15:13] sebner: almost, but it's more sour [15:13] sistpoty|work: kk :) [15:13] mok0, the ability to create & configure a VM without reading a manpage, zero-config automatic NATted networks, etc [15:13] mok0, you know, the way we have gnome instead of xterm [15:14] directhex: ah, you mean something like the virtual machine manager? [15:16]