| bryce | wgrant: you might want to take a peek at bug 282730 when you get a chance | 03:29 |
|---|---|---|
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 282730 in xorg "locking screen resets mouse settings - evdev returned to default when computer un-idles" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282730 | 03:29 |
| wgrant | bryce: That looks like the device's fault... but g-s-d should be smart enough to reset things. | 06:06 |
| wgrant | I've known about this sort of thing for a couple of weeks, but thought it only occurred with some strange touchpads. | 06:09 |
| wgrant | And it was too late to work out how to add event detection support into g-s-d at that stage. | 06:09 |
| bryce | wgrant: ok, if it's a device-specific that lessens the severity | 06:22 |
| wgrant | bryce: As you can see, it fails to find the device. | 06:25 |
| wgrant | That probably means it decides to go to sleep. | 06:25 |
| wgrant | The solution is to have g-s-d watch for input device changes, and possibly suspend/resume as well (depending on how braindead some devices are). | 06:27 |
| bryce | yep - do you know if this issue has been communicated upstream to gnome? | 06:31 |
| wgrant | I've not heard anything about it, and I've not established any lines of communication with them yet. | 06:33 |
| wgrant | I need to soon, but exams loom... | 06:33 |
| bryce | no prob, we've plenty of time before jaunty | 06:34 |
| wgrant | I think I'll be doing an awful lot of g-s-d and g-c-c hacking after UDS. | 06:51 |
| wgrant | bryce: What new stuff are we looking at in X land for Jaunty, other than GEM and MPX? | 07:26 |
| tjaalton | my wishlist includes a working nouveau driver, but upstream should wrap up a release first | 07:28 |
| bryce | hopefully more stability ;-) | 07:28 |
| bryce | we need to do a test package for MPX | 07:29 |
| tjaalton | MPX is not necessarily in xserver 1.6 | 07:29 |
| wgrant | Oh, I thought it had been merged already... | 07:29 |
| tjaalton | in master yes | 07:29 |
| tjaalton | but XI2 might not end up in 1.6 | 07:29 |
| wgrant | Ah, 1.6 is already branched? | 07:29 |
| wgrant | Oh dear. | 07:29 |
| tjaalton | not yet AFAIK | 07:29 |
| bryce | I think with MPX what we need to do is provide it as an experimental package for at least one full release, before putting it in | 07:30 |
| wgrant | I suspect so. | 07:30 |
| wgrant | It is a bit of a change. | 07:30 |
| tjaalton | bryce: but it's in the server, no? | 07:30 |
| bryce | it could end up uncovering bugs in a variety of client apps, so would be nice to give folks a chance to experiment with it before we switch it on by default | 07:30 |
| wgrant | Can we run it until say | 07:31 |
| wgrant | Er. | 07:31 |
| wgrant | ... until say beta, and then switch it off if it proves bad? | 07:31 |
| tjaalton | gtk/qt should support it first | 07:31 |
| tjaalton | don't know if there still are some problems | 07:32 |
| wgrant | I wasn't necessary meaning Jaunty beta, but $CONVENIENT_RELEASE beta. | 07:32 |
| bryce | wgrant: that's not a bad idea | 07:32 |
| * tjaalton goes hunting some breakfast | 07:33 | |
| bryce | I think a lot of issues are going to show up as application crashes, in apps that make assumptions that they'll only be accessed by a single pointer device | 07:33 |
| bryce | which could be extraordinarily irritating for developers of those apps | 07:34 |
| bryce | so I'm thinking rather than force it on them, instead give them some time to opt-in and play with it on non-development systems | 07:34 |
| wgrant | Or we could be nasty and force it on them, thus making them fix it *really* quickly. | 07:35 |
| bryce | maybe | 07:37 |
| bryce | there's going to be a LOT of corner cases that won't get fixed quickly | 07:37 |
| bryce | like perhaps fullscreen games | 07:37 |
| wgrant | Yes... | 07:38 |
| wgrant | I suppose that any device config UI in g-c-c is going to need to be designed with MPX config in mind. | 07:39 |
| bryce | yep | 07:39 |
| bryce | clearly I need to pay better attention to which machine I'm logged into when I restart gdm | 07:42 |
| wgrant | Haha. | 07:43 |
| wgrant | That is the main problem with deving X stuff. | 07:45 |
| bryce | yep | 07:45 |
| bryce | otoh you learn about .xprofile ;-) | 07:46 |
| * wgrant knows not of that. | 07:46 | |
| bryce | create a ~/.xprofile, which is sourced during start up of a graphical session. Put the cmds for any client apps to start up in there | 07:47 |
| wgrant | Ah. | 07:48 |
| bryce | create a ~/.xprofile, which is sourced during start up of a graphical session. Put the cmds for any client apps to start up in there | 07:54 |
| bryce | dah | 07:54 |
| bryce | night | 07:54 |
| wgrant | Night. | 07:57 |
| tjaalton | how embarrassing, a guy with hardy on his laptop (intel gfx) can't get the picture to the projector | 08:17 |
| wgrant | And now the complaints roll in about us breaking touchpads :( | 08:17 |
| wgrant | Hmm. | 08:17 |
| wgrant | That always works fine for me; what's it breaking on? | 08:17 |
| tjaalton | just no picture, xrandr shows both outputs though | 08:17 |
| tjaalton | --auto does nothing | 08:17 |
| wgrant | Nice. | 08:17 |
| tjaalton | nothing visible at least | 08:18 |
| wgrant | Which chipset? | 08:18 |
| tjaalton | 965GM I think | 08:18 |
| tjaalton | wgrant: where are the complaints, the forum? | 08:19 |
| wgrant | tjaalton: Yeah | 08:19 |
| * wgrant is dealing with them. | 08:19 | |
| wgrant | I hate to imagine the response we'll get once we update it to master... | 08:20 |
| wgrant | Lots of defaults have been changed. | 08:21 |
| wgrant | But we'll have a config GUI then, so it shouldn't be toooo bad. | 08:21 |
| wgrant | Maybe a more thorough release note should be added about the InputDevice section commenting-out? | 08:21 |
| tjaalton | synaptics master? | 08:24 |
| wgrant | Yes. | 08:24 |
| tjaalton | the inputdevice sections shouldn | 08:25 |
| tjaalton | bah | 08:25 |
| tjaalton | 't matter when the device is handled via hal | 08:25 |
| wgrant | They manage to break things if they're uncommented. | 08:25 |
| wgrant | But if they're commented, they lose their non-gconf settings. | 08:25 |
| tjaalton | hum, ok | 08:26 |
| wgrant | The majority of touchpad complaints early on were fixed by removing the InputDevice section. I'm not sure why | 08:26 |
| tjaalton | hmm, or is it evdev for which they are irrelevant | 08:30 |
| wgrant | I wonder if it's a good idea to move the Hardy stuff out of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticsTouchpad and into https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticsTouchpad/Hardy and link to it where relevant... that page is fairly inconveniently unreadable... | 08:32 |
| tjaalton | yeah | 08:33 |
| wgrant | It also needs more stuff added to it tonight. | 08:33 |
| * wgrant copies it elsewhere for hitting. | 08:33 | |
| wgrant | Oh good, it looks like they've finished my passport. | 08:40 |
| tjaalton | going somewhere?-) | 08:53 |
| wgrant | tjaalton: UDS? | 08:55 |
| tjaalton | wgrant: ahh, of course | 08:55 |
| tjaalton | I renewed mine a couple of weeks ago.. | 08:56 |
| wgrant | Child passports can unfortunately not be renewed here :( | 08:56 |
| tjaalton | well, you always get a new one when renewing, right?-) | 08:57 |
| wgrant | Yes, but it's a lot more work. | 08:58 |
| wgrant | Yay, nice short page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilliamGrant/SynapticsTouchpad | 08:58 |
| tjaalton | my old one was a ten-year passport, but with the biometric crap the five years is max | 08:58 |
| wgrant | They're still 10 years for adults here. | 08:59 |
| tjaalton | EU ftl in this case | 08:59 |
| wgrant | But not for me. | 08:59 |
| Ng | hrm what happened to bryce's domain | 11:02 |
| Ng | I wanted to see http://www.bryceharrington.org/X/PkgList/versions_current.html | 11:02 |
| Ng | also, are the 71 and 96 versions of nvidia not compatible with the current X server? | 11:03 |
| wgrant | Ng: Correct. | 11:03 |
| Ng | wgrant: how come they're still in the archive? | 11:04 |
| wgrant | Ng: And drop the 'www.' from bryce's domain. | 11:04 |
| wgrant | Ng: Because they might get fixed eventually, I suppose. | 11:05 |
| Ng | if people have a card which isn't supported by 177 and they upgrade, aren't they basically screwed? | 11:06 |
| wgrant | If their card isn't supported by 173 or 177, they will be migrated to nv. | 11:06 |
| wgrant | Unless they don't use update-manager, in which case they deserve to be screwed. | 11:07 |
| Ng | they will be migrated to nv, but they will then be offered the nvidia drivers | 11:07 |
| wgrant | Will they? | 11:07 |
| wgrant | Why? | 11:07 |
| Ng | the restricted thingy | 11:08 |
| Ng | jockey? | 11:08 |
| wgrant | That was fixed months ago. | 11:08 |
| wgrant | It won't offer broken drivers. | 11:08 |
| Ng | not according to a guy who did an upgrade about 6 hours ago | 11:08 |
| wgrant | Hmmm. | 11:09 |
| wgrant | tseliot: ^^ | 11:09 |
| tseliot | Ng: I fixed this in Jockey | 11:10 |
| tseliot | wait, no, it doesn't work | 11:11 |
| * tseliot scratches head | 11:11 | |
| * tseliot checks if the fix is in trunk | 11:12 | |
| tseliot | this line should have solved the problem: | 11:13 |
| tseliot | assert int(version) >= 173, "NVIDIA legacy driver not yet supported" | 11:13 |
| Ng | I have no suitable hardware to test this, but if the report is true it's quite a serious bug I think | 11:14 |
| tseliot | I'll talk to pitti about this | 11:15 |
| Ng | ideally jockey would say "sorry, nvidia are not currently supporting your hardware, os you lose 3D" | 11:15 |
| wgrant | s/quite/very/ | 11:15 |
| tseliot | the dist-upgrade should migrate users to "nv" therefore they won't be screwed up | 11:16 |
| tseliot | but yes, we have to fix this in Jockey too or see why my fix doesn't prevent Jockey from showing 96 and 71 | 11:16 |
| Ng | yeah the guy confirms that he was migrated to nv, which is fine | 11:17 |
| Ng | but the little hardware applet would have been there telling him he could upgrade to nvidia, which he did, and that obviously broke | 11:17 |
| Ng | is there any chance though that jockey could explicitly say that the hardware is unsupported? upgraders might be confused as to why their experience has regressed | 11:18 |
| wgrant | It's probably a bit late for that. | 11:18 |
| tseliot | no, if the hardware is not supported then it shouldn't show up in Jockey | 11:19 |
| Ng | I'll settle for that ;) | 11:19 |
| Ng | it's less than ideal, but I guess there's no good way to notify them that nvidia have screwed them, atm | 11:19 |
| Ng | and miles better than offering a broken driver | 11:20 |
| tseliot | yep | 11:20 |
| * Ng hunts for a bug report about this | 11:20 | |
| Ng | wow it's hard to find nvidia bugs | 11:22 |
| Ng | "1 → 75 of 5421 results " if I just search for "nvidia" in bugs.lp.net/ubuntu/ | 11:23 |
| tseliot | yes, I know... | 11:26 |
| Ng | hmm, I don't think there is a bug for this, at least I can't find it searching for "nvidia intrepid" | 11:29 |
| Ng | just asking him to file one | 11:31 |
| tseliot | ok, thanks | 11:32 |
| Ng | np :) | 11:32 |
| Ng | tseliot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/288662 | 11:56 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 288662 in ubuntu "Incompatible Restricted drivers offered for Legacy Nvidia Cards" [Undecided,New] | 11:56 |
| tseliot | Ng: thanks a lot | 11:56 |
| Ng | np | 11:56 |
| Ng | fwiw the reporter is in an eastern chinese timezone, but I'm subscribed and will poke him if info is required and he's awake ;) | 11:57 |
| Ng | (since it's obviously getting quite tight on timelines now) | 11:57 |
| tseliot | ok | 11:58 |
| tseliot | Ng: the problem should be solved now | 14:14 |
| === crevette_ is now known as crevette | ||
| superm1 | bryce, wgrant i'm not sure if this should be pointed at evdev or the gnome package that handles settings: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/287801 | 15:11 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 287801 in bluez "intrepid: bluetooth mouse settings lost" [Undecided,New] | 15:11 |
| superm1 | but i feel like it shouldn't be kept at bluez, since once it is paired it just shows up as a normal mouse | 15:12 |
| Ng | tseliot: great, thanks :) | 15:20 |
| superm1 | and this is sounding like probably the same type of problem: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=953489 | 15:29 |
| Ng | does the touchpad stuff use xinput properties? it's my general observation that on a suspend we lose all xinput property settings | 15:44 |
| Ng | something needs to learn to recognise the devices and store the settings. gnome-settings-daemon springs to mind | 15:44 |
| bryce | morning | 17:38 |
| bryce | superm1: probably g-s-d | 17:39 |
| bryce | superm1: but wgrant would know for certain | 17:39 |
| wgrant | superm1, Ng: That's g-s-d's fault. Some devices disappear on suspend, and g-s-d doesn't know to look for new ones. | 22:59 |
| wgrant | The same problem plagues the upstream right/left-handedness setting now. | 22:59 |
| superm1 | where do the settings get stored in general though? | 23:00 |
| superm1 | so that they persist from reboot to reboot etc | 23:00 |
| wgrant | gconf | 23:00 |
| superm1 | okay, and are they tied to a kernel inputX device then? | 23:00 |
| wgrant | No, they're global, and have been for a couple of releases. | 23:01 |
| wgrant | This will change for Jaunty. | 23:01 |
| superm1 | well that will be troublesome most certainly for bluetooth keyboards and mice then. there is a bug out there that whenever the device goes into low power mode, it's old inputX dissappears, and we get inputX+1 | 23:01 |
| wgrant | The problem is that devices now appear and disappear while X is running. | 23:01 |
| wgrant | And the new device doesn't have the settings applied. | 23:01 |
| superm1 | ah | 23:01 |
| wgrant | I wonder how hard it will be to get g-s-d to notice. | 23:02 |
| wgrant | I'll look at that after breakfast. | 23:02 |
| superm1 | hopefully X emits some kind of event whenever devices show up or similar | 23:02 |
| wgrant | Probably the devicepresencenotify event. | 23:03 |
| wgrant | Not all hardware disappears across suspend (my touchpad being the important one), and I don't use custom settings for my USB mouse, so I never noticed that this had become a problem :( | 23:06 |
| wgrant | I wonder if any other distros have a fix for this. | 23:11 |
| wgrant | Or are we the only people using input-hotplug for *everything*? | 23:11 |
| bryce | fedora and debian are | 23:12 |
| bryce | mandriva is stuck in the past | 23:12 |
| bryce | not sure what opensuse is doing | 23:12 |
| bryce | wgrant: but yeah I've wondered the same a bit myself | 23:12 |
| wgrant | AFAICT, Mandriva barely exists any more. | 23:13 |
| bryce | wgrant: from my experience, we seem to be a bit ahead of the pack in terms of dealing with unusual hardware | 23:15 |
| jcristau | bryce: debian isn't yet. | 23:17 |
| bryce | jcristau: really? thought you were. | 23:17 |
| jcristau | it was too late to get this in for lenny | 23:18 |
| * wgrant grumbles about having to learn about X events now. | 23:26 | |
| tjaalton | ho ho ho | 23:44 |
| wgrant | Why is tjaalton laughing so evily? | 23:47 |
| tjaalton | wgrant: haha, you've got mail. a shitload of it. welcome to ubuntu-x! :) | 23:48 |
| tjaalton | wgrant: that should suffice :) | 23:48 |
| wgrant | Heh. | 23:48 |
| wgrant | Thanks. | 23:48 |
| * wgrant fixes procmail. | 23:49 | |
| tjaalton | wgrant: btw, you think santa is evil? like in in futurama perhaps.. | 23:51 |
| wgrant | I do. | 23:52 |
| tjaalton | "ho ho ho, your mistletoe is no match to my tow-missile!" | 23:54 |
| tjaalton | hope i got that right | 23:55 |
| * wgrant has never seen Futurama. | 23:56 | |
| tjaalton | awwww... | 23:57 |
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