[03:29] wgrant: you might want to take a peek at bug 282730 when you get a chance [03:29] Launchpad bug 282730 in xorg "locking screen resets mouse settings - evdev returned to default when computer un-idles" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282730 [06:06] bryce: That looks like the device's fault... but g-s-d should be smart enough to reset things. [06:09] I've known about this sort of thing for a couple of weeks, but thought it only occurred with some strange touchpads. [06:09] And it was too late to work out how to add event detection support into g-s-d at that stage. [06:22] wgrant: ok, if it's a device-specific that lessens the severity [06:25] bryce: As you can see, it fails to find the device. [06:25] That probably means it decides to go to sleep. [06:27] The solution is to have g-s-d watch for input device changes, and possibly suspend/resume as well (depending on how braindead some devices are). [06:31] yep - do you know if this issue has been communicated upstream to gnome? [06:33] I've not heard anything about it, and I've not established any lines of communication with them yet. [06:33] I need to soon, but exams loom... [06:34] no prob, we've plenty of time before jaunty [06:51] I think I'll be doing an awful lot of g-s-d and g-c-c hacking after UDS. [07:26] bryce: What new stuff are we looking at in X land for Jaunty, other than GEM and MPX? [07:28] my wishlist includes a working nouveau driver, but upstream should wrap up a release first [07:28] hopefully more stability ;-) [07:29] we need to do a test package for MPX [07:29] MPX is not necessarily in xserver 1.6 [07:29] Oh, I thought it had been merged already... [07:29] in master yes [07:29] but XI2 might not end up in 1.6 [07:29] Ah, 1.6 is already branched? [07:29] Oh dear. [07:29] not yet AFAIK [07:30] I think with MPX what we need to do is provide it as an experimental package for at least one full release, before putting it in [07:30] I suspect so. [07:30] It is a bit of a change. [07:30] bryce: but it's in the server, no? [07:30] it could end up uncovering bugs in a variety of client apps, so would be nice to give folks a chance to experiment with it before we switch it on by default [07:31] Can we run it until say [07:31] Er. [07:31] ... until say beta, and then switch it off if it proves bad? [07:31] gtk/qt should support it first [07:32] don't know if there still are some problems [07:32] I wasn't necessary meaning Jaunty beta, but $CONVENIENT_RELEASE beta. [07:32] wgrant: that's not a bad idea [07:33] * tjaalton goes hunting some breakfast [07:33] I think a lot of issues are going to show up as application crashes, in apps that make assumptions that they'll only be accessed by a single pointer device [07:34] which could be extraordinarily irritating for developers of those apps [07:34] so I'm thinking rather than force it on them, instead give them some time to opt-in and play with it on non-development systems [07:35] Or we could be nasty and force it on them, thus making them fix it *really* quickly. [07:37] maybe [07:37] there's going to be a LOT of corner cases that won't get fixed quickly [07:37] like perhaps fullscreen games [07:38] Yes... [07:39] I suppose that any device config UI in g-c-c is going to need to be designed with MPX config in mind. [07:39] yep [07:42] clearly I need to pay better attention to which machine I'm logged into when I restart gdm [07:43] Haha. [07:45] That is the main problem with deving X stuff. [07:45] yep [07:46] otoh you learn about .xprofile ;-) [07:46] * wgrant knows not of that. [07:47] create a ~/.xprofile, which is sourced during start up of a graphical session. Put the cmds for any client apps to start up in there [07:48] Ah. [07:54] create a ~/.xprofile, which is sourced during start up of a graphical session. Put the cmds for any client apps to start up in there [07:54] dah [07:54] night [07:57] Night. [08:17] how embarrassing, a guy with hardy on his laptop (intel gfx) can't get the picture to the projector [08:17] And now the complaints roll in about us breaking touchpads :( [08:17] Hmm. [08:17] That always works fine for me; what's it breaking on? [08:17] just no picture, xrandr shows both outputs though [08:17] --auto does nothing [08:17] Nice. [08:18] nothing visible at least [08:18] Which chipset? [08:18] 965GM I think [08:19] wgrant: where are the complaints, the forum? [08:19] tjaalton: Yeah [08:19] * wgrant is dealing with them. [08:20] I hate to imagine the response we'll get once we update it to master... [08:21] Lots of defaults have been changed. [08:21] But we'll have a config GUI then, so it shouldn't be toooo bad. [08:21] Maybe a more thorough release note should be added about the InputDevice section commenting-out? [08:24] synaptics master? [08:24] Yes. [08:25] the inputdevice sections shouldn [08:25] bah [08:25] 't matter when the device is handled via hal [08:25] They manage to break things if they're uncommented. [08:25] But if they're commented, they lose their non-gconf settings. [08:26] hum, ok [08:26] The majority of touchpad complaints early on were fixed by removing the InputDevice section. I'm not sure why [08:30] hmm, or is it evdev for which they are irrelevant [08:32] I wonder if it's a good idea to move the Hardy stuff out of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticsTouchpad and into https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticsTouchpad/Hardy and link to it where relevant... that page is fairly inconveniently unreadable... [08:33] yeah [08:33] It also needs more stuff added to it tonight. [08:33] * wgrant copies it elsewhere for hitting. [08:40] Oh good, it looks like they've finished my passport. [08:53] going somewhere?-) [08:55] tjaalton: UDS? [08:55] wgrant: ahh, of course [08:56] I renewed mine a couple of weeks ago.. [08:56] Child passports can unfortunately not be renewed here :( [08:57] well, you always get a new one when renewing, right?-) [08:58] Yes, but it's a lot more work. [08:58] Yay, nice short page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilliamGrant/SynapticsTouchpad [08:58] my old one was a ten-year passport, but with the biometric crap the five years is max [08:59] They're still 10 years for adults here. [08:59] EU ftl in this case [08:59] But not for me. [11:02] hrm what happened to bryce's domain [11:02] I wanted to see http://www.bryceharrington.org/X/PkgList/versions_current.html [11:03] also, are the 71 and 96 versions of nvidia not compatible with the current X server? [11:03] Ng: Correct. [11:04] wgrant: how come they're still in the archive? [11:04] Ng: And drop the 'www.' from bryce's domain. [11:05] Ng: Because they might get fixed eventually, I suppose. [11:06] if people have a card which isn't supported by 177 and they upgrade, aren't they basically screwed? [11:06] If their card isn't supported by 173 or 177, they will be migrated to nv. [11:07] Unless they don't use update-manager, in which case they deserve to be screwed. [11:07] they will be migrated to nv, but they will then be offered the nvidia drivers [11:07] Will they? [11:07] Why? [11:08] the restricted thingy [11:08] jockey? [11:08] That was fixed months ago. [11:08] It won't offer broken drivers. [11:08] not according to a guy who did an upgrade about 6 hours ago [11:09] Hmmm. [11:09] tseliot: ^^ [11:10] Ng: I fixed this in Jockey [11:11] wait, no, it doesn't work [11:11] * tseliot scratches head [11:12] * tseliot checks if the fix is in trunk [11:13] this line should have solved the problem: [11:13] assert int(version) >= 173, "NVIDIA legacy driver not yet supported" [11:14] I have no suitable hardware to test this, but if the report is true it's quite a serious bug I think [11:15] I'll talk to pitti about this [11:15] ideally jockey would say "sorry, nvidia are not currently supporting your hardware, os you lose 3D" [11:15] s/quite/very/ [11:16] the dist-upgrade should migrate users to "nv" therefore they won't be screwed up [11:16] but yes, we have to fix this in Jockey too or see why my fix doesn't prevent Jockey from showing 96 and 71 [11:17] yeah the guy confirms that he was migrated to nv, which is fine [11:17] but the little hardware applet would have been there telling him he could upgrade to nvidia, which he did, and that obviously broke [11:18] is there any chance though that jockey could explicitly say that the hardware is unsupported? upgraders might be confused as to why their experience has regressed [11:18] It's probably a bit late for that. [11:19] no, if the hardware is not supported then it shouldn't show up in Jockey [11:19] I'll settle for that ;) [11:19] it's less than ideal, but I guess there's no good way to notify them that nvidia have screwed them, atm [11:20] and miles better than offering a broken driver [11:20] yep [11:20] * Ng hunts for a bug report about this [11:22] wow it's hard to find nvidia bugs [11:23] "1 → 75 of 5421 results " if I just search for "nvidia" in bugs.lp.net/ubuntu/ [11:26] yes, I know... [11:29] hmm, I don't think there is a bug for this, at least I can't find it searching for "nvidia intrepid" [11:31] just asking him to file one [11:32] ok, thanks [11:32] np :) [11:56] tseliot: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/288662 [11:56] Ubuntu bug 288662 in ubuntu "Incompatible Restricted drivers offered for Legacy Nvidia Cards" [Undecided,New] [11:56] Ng: thanks a lot [11:56] np [11:57] fwiw the reporter is in an eastern chinese timezone, but I'm subscribed and will poke him if info is required and he's awake ;) [11:57] (since it's obviously getting quite tight on timelines now) [11:58] ok [14:14] Ng: the problem should be solved now === crevette_ is now known as crevette [15:11] bryce, wgrant i'm not sure if this should be pointed at evdev or the gnome package that handles settings: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/287801 [15:11] Ubuntu bug 287801 in bluez "intrepid: bluetooth mouse settings lost" [Undecided,New] [15:12] but i feel like it shouldn't be kept at bluez, since once it is paired it just shows up as a normal mouse [15:20] tseliot: great, thanks :) [15:29] and this is sounding like probably the same type of problem: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=953489 [15:44] does the touchpad stuff use xinput properties? it's my general observation that on a suspend we lose all xinput property settings [15:44] something needs to learn to recognise the devices and store the settings. gnome-settings-daemon springs to mind [17:38] morning [17:39] superm1: probably g-s-d [17:39] superm1: but wgrant would know for certain [22:59] superm1, Ng: That's g-s-d's fault. Some devices disappear on suspend, and g-s-d doesn't know to look for new ones. [22:59] The same problem plagues the upstream right/left-handedness setting now. [23:00] where do the settings get stored in general though? [23:00] so that they persist from reboot to reboot etc [23:00] gconf [23:00] okay, and are they tied to a kernel inputX device then? [23:01] No, they're global, and have been for a couple of releases. [23:01] This will change for Jaunty. [23:01] well that will be troublesome most certainly for bluetooth keyboards and mice then. there is a bug out there that whenever the device goes into low power mode, it's old inputX dissappears, and we get inputX+1 [23:01] The problem is that devices now appear and disappear while X is running. [23:01] And the new device doesn't have the settings applied. [23:01] ah [23:02] I wonder how hard it will be to get g-s-d to notice. [23:02] I'll look at that after breakfast. [23:02] hopefully X emits some kind of event whenever devices show up or similar [23:03] Probably the devicepresencenotify event. [23:06] Not all hardware disappears across suspend (my touchpad being the important one), and I don't use custom settings for my USB mouse, so I never noticed that this had become a problem :( [23:11] I wonder if any other distros have a fix for this. [23:11] Or are we the only people using input-hotplug for *everything*? [23:12] fedora and debian are [23:12] mandriva is stuck in the past [23:12] not sure what opensuse is doing [23:12] wgrant: but yeah I've wondered the same a bit myself [23:13] AFAICT, Mandriva barely exists any more. [23:15] wgrant: from my experience, we seem to be a bit ahead of the pack in terms of dealing with unusual hardware [23:17] bryce: debian isn't yet. [23:17] jcristau: really? thought you were. [23:18] it was too late to get this in for lenny [23:26] * wgrant grumbles about having to learn about X events now. [23:44] ho ho ho [23:47] Why is tjaalton laughing so evily? [23:48] wgrant: haha, you've got mail. a shitload of it. welcome to ubuntu-x! :) [23:48] wgrant: that should suffice :) [23:48] Heh. [23:48] Thanks. [23:49] * wgrant fixes procmail. [23:51] wgrant: btw, you think santa is evil? like in in futurama perhaps.. [23:52] I do. [23:54] "ho ho ho, your mistletoe is no match to my tow-missile!" [23:55] hope i got that right [23:56] * wgrant has never seen Futurama. [23:57] awwww...