Beacon11Hey guys04:17
persiaHey Beacon11 04:18
Beacon11I have a question04:18
persiawhich one?04:19
Beacon11I have a via pico itx (really teeny motherboard) and I have a project I'm working on with it. Sounds big, but I have the university of idaho behind me. Basically, I'm making a really small tablet PC04:19
Beacon11And initially (this project started a little over a year ago) I was running kubuntu on it04:20
Beacon11I'm using a lilliput 629GL 7-inch touchscreen04:20
Beacon11And a few days ago, I saw a blog post about ubuntu mobile04:20
Beacon11I immediately threw away kubuntu after trying ubuntu mobile live04:20
Beacon11But... now I'm having issues getting my touchscreen working04:21
Beacon11And I'm not sure if its ubuntu mobile itself, or simply the fact that it's 8.10 now and something changed04:21
Beacon11My initial question is this: should the calibration utility included work with my touchscreen?04:22
persiaThe calibration utility only works with touchscreens supported by the evtouch driver (I think).  No idea if yours falls into that category.04:23
Beacon11It does, evtouch is what I used to get it working previously04:23
Beacon11But I couldn't get the utility to work before either :P04:23
Beacon11So I ended up hacking xorg.conf to work correctly04:24
Beacon11Yeah... took a while04:24
persiaThe utility has changed completely since 8.04.  The version in 8.04 didn't work for any screens.04:24
persiaYou might need an .fdi file for your screen though, if it's sufficiently special.04:24
Beacon11Hmmm... well I tested the calibration, and it then restarted X, and nothing changed. No changes to my xorg.conf either04:25
Beacon11What exactly is the utility supposed to do?04:25
Beacon11You're over my head there– what's a .fdi file?04:25
persiaI think the utility writes some hints for the size metric for the screen.  I forget what fdi is supposed to mean, but it's a file to help HAL set the properties for a given piece of hardware.04:26
persia(and I'm talking over my head as well, so apologies if something is lost in translation)04:26
Beacon11Don't worry about it, sounds like you know more than I do!04:27
Beacon11Okay, I can work on that. However... even if the calibration isn't working like I need it to, in kubuntu I just basically followed the directions here http://www.conan.de/touchscreen/evtouch.html and it worked. I created a udev rule for it, but other than that, I followed those directions04:28
Beacon11But now, when I make those changes to ubuntu mobile's xorg.conf (which is very sparse compared to what I'm used to seeing) x fails to restart04:29
Beacon11What's different now?04:29
persia8.04 vs. 8.10.  If you grab the Kubuntu 8.10 RC, you'll get the same sparse xorg.conf.04:30
Beacon11For instance, in the xorg.xonf generated by ubuntu-mobile, there IS no section "ServerLayout"04:30
persiaX 1.5 is using XInput2 hotplug to determine the input devices from HAL.04:30
Beacon11Okay, so this has completely changed04:30
persiaYep.  Some stuff works *lots* better, like adding USB or bluetooth mice to laptops.  Some stuff needs different sorts of hacking, like touchscreens.04:31
Beacon11Hey, I'm all for improvement. So do you think that looking for the correct .fdi file for my monitor is my best bet?04:31
persiaAs the body of knowledge about hardware grows, the appropriate hints can be given to HAL so it works for everyone : that way once a known hack for xorg.conf exists, it can be given automatically to everyone with that hardware, rather than people passing around snippets on web pages.04:32
persiaUnfortunately, the data collection part is still underway, so it is a little harder to get stuff that doesn't work by default working for now.04:32
Beacon11Ooo, I think it's worth it04:32
Beacon11What a great idea04:32
persiaWell, .fdi file for the touchscreen : I suspect the display function works fine.04:32
Beacon11Oh... yeah, you're right04:33
Beacon11Also, I say this blog post http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/09/ubuntu-mobile-edition-news-and-first-boot-video04:33
persiaYeah.  I'm entirely in favour of the idea, even though it breaks a few things.  It's completely worth it.04:33
Beacon11In the comments, ogra said to email him lshal output, and he'll add support in the next image04:33
Beacon11Would you recommend that?04:33
persiaI think he underestimated the number of people who would install Ubuntu Mobile :)  I'd recommend filing a bug against xserver-xorg-input-evdev with your lshal output.04:34
persiaogra will still see it, but it also gets tracked, and you'll automatically get an email when it is closed.04:35
Beacon11Ha! Well I consider that GOOD news04:35
persiaI also :)04:35
Beacon11Okay, well I'll definitely file that bug. Not having much luck with an fdi file for my touchscreen though... I may just have to wait04:35
persiaWell, I think the HAL package has some docs on generating an .fdi file.  If you look at the ones that come with the xserver-xorg-input-evdev package, you might be able to generate one for your device.04:36
Beacon11Hey, good idea04:37
persia(attaching a working .fdi file to a bug is even more likely to get it supported than attaching lshal output only (but please also include lshal if attaching an .fdi file)04:37
persiaThis is the best part of open source :)  One can fix one's own bugs.04:38
Beacon11Hahaha, I can't even decide what the best part is04:38
Beacon11Maybe that if you can't fix your own bug, you're nearly guaranteed someone else can ;)04:39
persiaPersonally, I think all the other good bits come from someone else fixing it before I noticed the bug :)04:39
persia(because they could fix their own bugs)04:39
Beacon11True, true04:39
Beacon11Hey, does umobile include all .fdi files? For instance... could I hunt one down somewhere on my system for another touchscreen?04:42
persiaIt doesn't include *all* .fdi files : the idea is to only include the ones each driver needs.  The xserver-xorg-input-evtouch package contains a few touchscreen .fdi files.04:45
Beacon11Okay, thanks :)04:47
Beacon11Alright... in a bug report, I found an fdi file for an eGalax touchscreen from Samsung. My touchscreen, although from lilliput, also identifies as eGalax. Do you think this fdi file could potentially work?04:49
persiaQuite possibly.  Drop it in /etc/hal/fdi/policy and see if it helps.04:51
Beacon11An fdi file has a line that says this: <match key="info.product" contains="Touchkit Touch">05:04
Beacon11Would that info.product be the line printed in dmesg by any change?05:04
persiaIt would be the info.product entry from lshal.05:05
Beacon11I think this is going to work05:05
Beacon11So my touchscreen tells lshal what it's capable of, basically?05:07
persiaRight.  And then the drivers ask hal which devices they should manage.05:08
persiaThe .fdi files are the glue that makes this work.05:08
Beacon11Nice! Actually... this is a lot cleaner than hacking the xorg.conf. I just put all the dirty details in the .fdi file. It almost looks exactly the same!05:11
Beacon11Okay... so using the .fdi files, I don't need udev rules anymore do I?05:11
Beacon11(for my touchscreen, that is)05:11
Beacon11Because hal, using the fdi files, grabs it wherever it is anyway?05:12
persiaYou probably still need the udev rules to create the devices for HAL to monitor, unless your udev rule was just to get a static name for xorg.conf.05:37
Beacon11I was thinking it was just to get a static name for xorg. But here's what I have, you can tell me if I'm right:05:44
Beacon11KERNEL=="event*", SUBSYSTEM=="input", ATTRS{name}=="eGalax Inc.", SYMLINK+="input/evtouch_event"05:44
persiaI think you can drop that.  Try it without it first.05:44
Beacon11Sure thing05:44
persiaIt ought take two of input/event*05:44
Beacon11So I see all these input.x11_options.* in my lshal. Are those default values? If I don't have an option in my fdi, it'll resort to those values?05:48
Beacon11For instance: in my lshal, I see input.x11_options.taptimer = '30' (string)05:50
Beacon11Does that mean that a line like the following is unneeded in my fdi file? <merge key="input.x11_options.taptimer" type="string">30</merge>05:50
persiaI suspect that comes from your .fdi file.05:51
persiaIf you get that without a .fdi file, then yes, you don't need it.05:51
Beacon11I do get that without an fdi file05:52
Beacon11Okay, cool05:52
persiaThen you probably don't need it.05:52
Beacon11So now, say I have this fdi file. The calibration utility writes to it, I'm assuming?05:54
Beacon11So the fact that I had no fdi file means the calibration utility had nothing to write to...?05:54
persiaI think the calibration utility writes to somewhere else, although I'll admit to not really understanding it.05:54
Beacon11Okay, no problem05:55
=== merriam_ is now known as merriam
Beacon11Ha! Persia, you're a lifesaver. My touchscreen is now working :)06:27
Beacon11Thank you so much for your help06:28
Beacon11I will now file a bug report06:28
persiaBeacon11, Thanks for porting Ubuntu to work with your hardware :)06:32
Beacon11I can't wait for this ubuntu-mobile thing to go further... it's exactly what I needed to bring my project to the next step06:32
Beacon11So anything I can do to help ;)06:32
persiaWell, this week, not so much.  Archive freeze is tomorrow or so, and then there's release processing, etc.06:34
persiaNext release prep doesn't start until mid November or so.06:34
Beacon11All I care about is that work is continuing06:34
persiaAt that point, if you want to test the upcoming version, and help submit patches to fix even more bugs, I'm sure they would be accepted.06:35
persiaI don't see any reason why it should stop.  It seems popular, and the release team is willing to distribute it.  As long as we all test and submit patches, it should become what we all want.06:35
Beacon11Good, I was worried about the user base06:35
persiaWell, since it's never been released, that's probably pretty small right now.  I expect it will get larger.06:36
Beacon11It's awfully well done for a beta06:36
persiaI've been showing it off on some of my devices, and people are interested.  You might do the same, if you want to get more people involved.06:36
Beacon11There are only a few complaints I have (and the touchscreen isn't one of them)06:36
persiaWell, it's based on a strong foundation :)06:36
persiaWhat sort of complaints?  I could probably point you in the right direction for them.06:37
Beacon11I'm a computer engineering major at the university of idaho, and I've been asking advise from several professors, who have requested to see the project ;)06:37
Beacon11Oh, just beta ones, like how polished the web browser is (with the button to switch from drag to select, etc) but then with the previewer, that little toolbar isn't there and I need to use a fingernail to scroll06:38
Beacon11Teeny things06:38
persiaDunno how much of that will be fixed for release : it's probably worth filing bugs.  I think there's only a few packages getting updated between now and release.06:39
Beacon11Alright, I'll mention it. They aren't really bugs even... just preferences06:40
Beacon11I kinda feel guilty :P06:40
Beacon11But for me, that little toolbar at the bottom of the screen for the web browser would be very handy to have for other applications06:40
persiaIf you think they're just preferences ask someone in #ubuntu-bugs to set them to wishlist after filing them.06:41
Beacon11Ah, good idea06:41
persiaThat's actually part of the browser : it would have to be done per-program.  I agree that it'd be neat to pull the iconbar from the top to the bottom though, although I don't know how that would be done globally.06:41
Beacon11I'm thinking make that toolbar more of an applet. That way, one could make it launch with certain programs06:42
Beacon11Welll... applet... I guess I'm thinking more of a plugin06:43
Beacon11Used to ruby web apps :P06:43
persiaI guess.  A lot of programs I use have a button bar on the top on the desktop.  I'd think it would be easier just to find a way to pull that to the bottom.06:43
Beacon11Uh ohh... I had a working fdi file, but it wasn't quite on. So I ran the calibrator... and now it's all messed up. So I thought "Okay, hopefully it just edited my fdi file and I can copy back over it." But no... the fdi file is the same. How do I make it forget the calibration? :P06:46
Beacon11I can't find much info about that06:47
persiaI don't know.  Maybe xorg.conf?06:48
Beacon11Nope. Aw dang!06:48
Beacon11It's gonna be somewhere that's gonna make me feel stupid, I know it06:48
persiaFastest way is probably to look at the source for the calibration tool.06:50
Beacon11To be honest I've never done that before. How would I go about this?06:51
Beacon11The evtouch home page?06:52
persiamkdir evtouch-source; cd evtouch-source; apt-get source xserver-xorg-input-evtouch06:52
Beacon11Thank you :)06:52
Beacon11Never done the apt-get source, I'll remember that06:53
persiaThe goal is to make it easy, to encourage patches :)06:53
Beacon11I assume you've used this utility, correct?07:25
persiaOnly a couple times.  I never investigated it in depth.  One of my touchscreens isn't evtouch, and the other just works.07:27
Beacon11Oh, gotcha07:27
persiaI do a lot of apt-get source though, if you have questions about that :)07:27
Beacon11Hmm.... this code prints to the screen, the utility doesn't07:28
persiaThat's very confusing.  That code is what generates the utility.07:28
Beacon11It prints to a relative output file, and the screen. I have a hunch the final utility grabs the screen output and does something with it07:28
Beacon11Where is that code... *searching*07:28
Beacon11Because that was only the c code, not the sh07:29
persiaThat sounds like a reasonable theory.07:29
Beacon11Dang... what does "mknod /tmp/ev_calibrate p" do?07:30
Beacon11Nevermind, man pages07:32
persiaI think it creates a named pipe (man mknod may be helpful).07:32
Beacon11Well... I know that with this code, it requires the option Calibrate to be 1, and the reporting mode must be raw. However, I read elsewhere (now for some reason I can't remember where... maybe the bug reports) that the utility takes care of that07:41
Beacon11If that's the case... then the code for that isn't exactly the same. Right?07:41
persiaI'm not sure.07:42
Beacon11Okay... so the code communicates using fifos, which is what the mknod did07:54
Beacon11The calibration utility USES this code08:08
Beacon11But it is indeed seperate code08:08
Beacon11The utility is calibrate_touchscreen, which calls ev_calibrate. ev_calibrate is the compiled version of this code08:09
Beacon11So... I need the source for calibrate_touchscreen. How would I do that?08:09
Beacon11Oh... it's just a shell08:10
Beacon11Oh clever08:12
Beacon11Too bad I haven't done more of this :S08:17
persiaIt's a great time to get started : you can get familiar with the processes, and be all prepared for archive open :)08:18
Beacon11No kidding! I still can't figure out where it puts that info though! It seemed like everything in the program were tmps, but there's a fifo that remains constant in all of these– tmp/ev_calibrate. The program reads from it, then closes it. These scripts create it, call the program, them remove it. I can't figure out anything beyond that, really :P08:21
persiaOdd.  It has to store it somewhere.08:22
Beacon11Yeah... it tosses the screen output of the program to /dev/null, it seems08:23
Beacon11But although I can program, my in-depth linux experience is still relatively weak. I think I'm losing something there08:23
* persia finds https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/intrepid-changes/2008-September/007575.html which provides a clue, and suggests looking in the changelog for more08:24
Beacon11No way :P08:25
Beacon11Oh man, it's right there!08:26
persiachangelogs are cool :)08:27
Beacon11(don't irc often enough to know how to bypass the forward slash)08:27
Beacon11Oh :P08:27
Beacon11Hmm, the log also says that it includes .fdi files to eGalax screens. Why wasn't one installed for my setup?08:28
persiaIt was : remember you said you found a .fdi file for the Samsung eGalax screen?08:28
persiaApparently that file didn't also work for yours.08:29
Beacon11Online, though08:29
Beacon11It wasn't included in the installation08:29
persiaYou might want to look under /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy ...08:29
Beacon11Quite a collection, actually08:30
Beacon11Hey persia... I tweaked the fdi file until it works well. Should I just commend on this bug or file my own? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xf86-input-evtouch/+bug/26187309:14
ubottuUbuntu bug 261873 in xf86-input-evtouch "make evtouch devices work with hal-input in intrepid" [High,Fix released] 09:14
Beacon11comment, rather09:14
elegoshello there09:35
elegosany news about mounting Ubuntu-Mobile under eeePC?09:35
elegosdoes the ubuntu-mobile appear in the list of the netinstall disk?09:57
persiaBeacon11, I'd recommend a new bug.10:05
elegoshere I am10:06
persiaelegos, ubuntu-mobile doesn't appear in the list of the netinstall disk.10:06
elegosu.u ok10:06
persiaOther people have reported success with installing on an Eee, so I'm not sure what's different for you.10:07
elegosis there a way to alternatively install ubuntu mobile?10:07
elegosreading from the net I read something about JeOS but they were still speaking about Hardy10:07
elegosif I install a command line system10:08
elegosmay I then install ubuntu-mobile as a metapackage?10:08
persiaSure.  That should work.  Or install all of ubuntu-desktop first.10:12
elegosI think that I can't install intrepid on 4GB :P10:13
elegosnot a problem: dhclient eth0 && sudo apt-get install ubuntu-mobile :)10:13
persiaintrepid should be fine for 4G.10:16
popey14:43:15 < ogra> persia, popey had to install lbm on a 700 iirc10:24
popeya 900 actually :)10:24
elegosthe netinstall asked me if I want to use the "recompiled" packages... are those the backports I need?10:36
elegoshey! there is ubuntu mobile as choice in the netinstall !!! :D10:45
* persia is pleasantly surprised, and wonders how it works.10:46
* elegos is hoping it'll work :P10:47
=== asac_ is now known as asac
elegosthe installation is stuck on the configuration of "scrollkeeper" (or something like that)... the HD is doing something, but it's about 5 minutes there... what should it be?11:44
elegosno problem... it's still goiing on :P11:47
persiaThat step takes a frustratingly long time.  Just wait.11:47
elegoson eeePC is also longer then a normal PC11:51
persiaDepends on the normal PC :)11:53
ian_brasilmo mention of mobile on http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-8-10-Release-Candidate-Screenshot-Tour-96353.shtml13:17
persiaThat's OK.  There wasn't a lot of mention of Mobile in the RC announcement.  We need to get the wiki pages organised for the real release, and add a proper note.  That should get some attention.13:20
persiaPersonally, I'm glad not to have too much press before we have a decent landing site.13:20
elegoswhat is the package I have to install for the Atheros wifi card?13:24

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