[00:45] <NCommander> Ok, to save me some embarassment later on, how explicately can I publish my branch to kernel.u.c? (I have an account on zinc ...)
[05:19] <NCommander> morning osmosis 
[05:19] <osmosis> mornin
[05:22] <NCommander> how goes it osmosis 
[05:23] <osmosis> im hating 3ware raid cards. Im going to switch to linux software raid. trying to figure out a migration plan
[05:24] <NCommander> osmosis, ouch. I'm learning that the PowerPC kernel blows up if you add too many platforms at once ;-)
[11:02] <Kano> hi, it is a bit short for final 8.10 release,but there is already 2.6.27.4 out
[11:05] <persia> Kano, Which patches are there that aren't in .6.27-7.14 ?
[11:06] <Kano> it is based on 2.6.27.2 when you look at the git log
[11:06] <Kano> so interdiff between 2 and 4
[11:06] <Kano> 7.14 did only disable ath5k
[11:08] <persia> Let me ask that differently.  Which patch of those is release-critical for Ubuntu 8.10?
[11:08] <Kano> you can update it later if you like
[11:08] <Kano> some deadlock fixes are there however
[14:20] <NCommander> Is it currently possible to cross-compile the kernel?
[14:20] <persia> NCommander, Yes, but it's generally only done for bootstrapping purposes.
[14:21] <NCommander> persia, well, I want to provide daily images of the ports kernel, and since PPAs are not really that useful for -ports, I'm looking towards cross-compiliation for the dailies unless someone can cough up hardware
[14:22] <persia> You *don't* want to do that.  cross-compiled kernels tend to be fragile.
[14:22] <NCommander> persia, not in my experience, I cross-compiled kernels for both my ARM and MIPS boxes
[14:23] <persia> Then you have different experience than I, although I've not cross-compiled a kernel in a 3-4 years, so my experience may be out of date.
[14:24] <NCommander> persia, its possible, but usually the biggest cause of a DOA kernel due to cross-compiling is a faulty toolchain
[14:24] <persia> Oh, mine weren't DOA, just not as fast as the native ones.
[14:24] <NCommander> Odd
[14:25] <NCommander> persia, it would just be nice to make sure the new ports kernel actually builds on all architectures without having to manually kick off builds
[14:25] <persia> Port xen :)
[14:26] <NCommander> I could do that for PowerPC
[14:26] <NCommander> Xen for PowerPC already exists, just not for G4s
[14:26] <persia> With enough lobbying, you might be able to get LP to support ppc PPAs then.
[14:26] <NCommander> Someone told me awhile back Canonicals PPC buildds are G4 XServes
[14:27] <NCommander> oh, xen-powerpc requires 64-bit hardwares upport
[14:27] <persia> Ah.  Well, you probably have to support that then.
[14:28] <NCommander> yeah
[14:52] <marlock> ciao a tutti
[14:52] <marlock> hi
[14:52] <marlock> is there any italian?
[14:53] <NCommander> marlock, there is an ia64 port of Ubuntu if thats what your asking
[14:56] <jdong> !it
[14:56] <jdong> ack stupid lack of bots
[14:56] <jdong> I give up
[14:56] <NCommander> morning jdong 
[14:56] <persia> Well, there are italian kernel hackers in the channel sometimes, just not now.
[14:56] <jdong> morning :)
[14:56] <NCommander> jdong, how goes it?
[14:57] <jdong> NCommander: meh hanging in there, catching up on homework for next week
[14:57] <NCommander> jdong, do you happen to use any of the Ubuntu port architectures?
[14:57] <jdong> no, I'm not cool enough to have outda^H^H^H^Hexotic hardware
[14:58]  * NCommander watches PowerPC, SPARC, and IA-64 users descend on jdong
[14:58] <jdong> all 5 of them?
[14:58] <NCommander> actually powerpc has about 3,000 users
[14:59] <jdong> I know, I'm just messing with you :)
[14:59]  * NCommander wished that the ports got more spick and span so to speak then they currently do
[20:32] <NCommander> hey BenC 
[22:47]  * NCommander has discovered git cherry-pick is his new best friend
[22:52] <persia> NCommander, Hey.  You might be interested in this one.  I was waiting to see if there would be a 7.15 kernel, to upload linux-rt, but given he timing, I think 7.14 will be the final.  When I recompiled linux-rt against 7.14 (rather than 7.12), it failed ABI check.
[22:52] <NCommander> 7.15?
[22:53] <NCommander> I assume thats the version of the rt patches
[22:53] <persia> No, the main kernel.  2.6.27-7.14 is the current version (last I checked).  I heard rumours of a possibly newer one, but it doesn't appear to have been uploaded.
[22:54] <NCommander> Oh!
[22:54] <persia> linux-rt is 2.6.27-3.7 (fewer uploads means fewer ABI changes).
[22:54] <NCommander> Right, the X.Y version refers to X is the ABI, Y is the upload
[22:54] <persia> I didn't expect an ABI change between 7.12 and 7.14, but maybe it's related to the patches in -rt.
[22:55] <NCommander> persia, this close to release, breaking the ABI is to be avoided if possible. If -rt is broke the API, we need to transition linux-rt-lrm and lbm (I dunno if it has either one of those)
[22:55] <persia> Just lrm, but that's easy enough.
[22:56] <NCommander> Probably is easier to just transition lrm and be done with it vs. trying to unbreak the rt ABI (if possible)
[22:56] <persia> On the other hand, I'd rather not break ABI.  Since the -rt code is unchanged, and it's only the 7.12 -> 7.14 updates, I'm not entirely sure why it fails ABI check.
[22:56] <persia> Or rather, wonder if the main kernel didn't break ABI.
[22:57] <NCommander> Can you post the output of the failed ABI check?
[22:58] <persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/63049/
[22:59] <NCommander> Hrm
[23:00] <NCommander> persia, given its just xfs, its probably safe to ignore it (I can't see anything in lrm building against the XFS API)
[23:00] <NCommander> persia, however, I won't say I'm familar with it to be sure, so I recommand you ask BenC, or another kernel guru
[23:02] <NCommander> persia, but that would be very strange if the rt patchset changed the XFS API
[23:02]  * NCommander would be wondering more whats going on
[23:02] <NCommander> Oh
[23:02] <NCommander> persia, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-intrepid.git;a=commit;h=21c69ea60244403e503f148cd29d89df85eb0908
[23:02] <NCommander> persia, your tree might be out of date
[23:03] <persia> I'm not using a git tree.  linux-rt build-depends on linux-source-2.6.27
[23:03]  * NCommander grabs linux-rt
[23:03] <NCommander> The XFS ABI was blacklisted
[23:04] <persia> Ah, so maybe a change to config fixes it?
[23:04] <NCommander> persia, what source package is linux-rt? (I get linux-rt-meta if I try to apt-get source it)
[23:05]  * NCommander doesn't want to give you bad instructions
[23:06] <persia> Yeah, well, the source/binary naming for the kernels is way broken.  Try apt-get source linux.  The source package is called linux-rt.  You need to apt-get source linux-image-2.6.27-3-rt to get it.
[23:06]  * persia filed a bug about this a while back.  Some people have ideas they plan to bring to UDS
[23:06] <NCommander> persia, I can give you a debdiff for it, or just simply teach you how to do the blacklist
[23:07] <persia> Up to you, although I suspect you'll find that the -rt kernel source is different from other kernel sources.
[23:07] <NCommander> persia, it uses the same build system
[23:07] <persia> Indeed it does.
[23:08] <persia> Is it more than CONFIG_XFS_FS=m -> CONFIG_XFS_FS=n ?
[23:09] <persia> Err "# CONFIG_XFS_FS is not set"
[23:09] <NCommander> persia, no, you need to tell the ABI check to ignore XFS
[23:09] <NCommander> You have to add it to the perm-blacklist file
[23:09]  * NCommander is test building and test installing the result now
[23:13] <NCommander> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/63053/
[23:14] <persia> I'm a little confused.  Does this just tell the ABI checker not to check that?
[23:14] <NCommander> persia, pretty much
[23:16] <persia> So the ABI does change, but we're explicitly saying we don't care, because we don't expect anyone to have external modules compiled against XFS?
[23:16] <NCommander> BIngo
[23:16] <NCommander> Welcome to the world of kernel hacking
[23:17] <persia> Somehow that seems dishonest, but if that's the standard way these things are done ...
[23:19] <NCommander> persia, well, its just copying the change to the mainline kernel
[23:19] <persia> Yeah, well.  That only confirms the latter part.
[23:26] <NCommander> persia, its building modules now, so another 20-30 minutes and I can confirm
[23:26] <persia> NCommander, OK.  Once you confirm, I'll get the ACK from MOTU Release, and push.
[23:39]  * NCommander didn't realize linux-rt was in multiverse
[23:42] <persia> Where else would it be?
[23:43] <persia> Actually, ideally it would be in universe, but there's issues with metapackages and virtual packages and the like.
[23:47] <NCommander> persia, I thought it was in multiverse due to firmwares
[23:48] <persia> No.  The firmware is in the arch-independent linux-firmware packages, shared between several kernels (you do use this for ports, don't you?)
[23:49] <NCommander> persia, we just recently made that change
[23:49] <NCommander> persia, all the blobs are removed?
[23:50] <persia> Should be.  Remember, linux-rt is just a patch package, and depends on linux-source.  As long as linux-source is clean (and it should be), linux-rt is clean.
[23:51] <persia> NCommander, When you're done testing, could you stick your debdiff on 289683?
[23:52] <NCommander> persia, no problem
[23:52] <NCommander> persia, wow, debian should adopt our kernel packages
[23:52]  * NCommander should post that to d-devel ....
[23:52] <persia> Why?
[23:52] <persia> Because of the firmware?
[23:53] <NCommander> yeah
[23:54] <persia> It doesn't solve the essential issue : linux-firmware is in main.  It's on the CDs.  Putting it in non-free doesn't help anyone : the argument there needs to be resolved in it's own way, but that's orthogonal to the packaging change.
[23:54] <NCommander> persia, actually, with debian, linux-firmware would just get dropped into non-free; d-i in lenny already prompts to grab firmware from non-free
[23:55] <persia> Umm.  It's more complicated than that.  Anyway, this isn't the right forum.
[23:56] <NCommander> persia, right, anyway, I'm finishing compiling linux-rt now (its in the final module link)
[23:56] <persia> Cool.  Now it just needs smoke testing :)
[23:56] <NCommander> mmmmmmmmm, smoke
[23:57] <NCommander> persia, disregard that debdiff I gave you
[23:58] <NCommander> persia, I forgot to move the ABI folder