[02:06] <sbalneav> Evening all
[02:07] <HedgeMage> hi, sbalneav
[03:10] <Eeyore-Sr> hi sbalneav
[05:53] <admin__> hello
[05:54] <admin__> what is this
[05:55] <HedgeMage> hello, admin__
[05:55] <admin__> hi
[05:55] <HedgeMage> this is Edubuntu chat -- support, dev, the whole ball of wax
[05:55] <admin__> can you help me with kubuntu
[05:56] <HedgeMage> try #kubuntu or #ubuntu :)
[05:56] <admin__> #ubuntu
[05:56] <HedgeMage> and don't private message people for help, it's very rude and will ensure folks don't want to help you
[05:56] <admin__> ok
[05:56] <HedgeMage>  /join #kubuntu
[07:10] <kwak_> hi, 8.10 is 3 days away. will there be big problems if i use it for server now and install the current education addon
[13:20] <Eeyore-Sr> kwak_: i've been running 8.10 RC
[13:20] <Eeyore-Sr> in a test situation, but it appears to be doing ok
[13:39] <sbalneav> Morning all
[14:26] <berriop> it is possible to use the compiz 3d desktop in the thin clients??
[14:26] <berriop> in the server is working ok but in the clients i cannot use it!!
[14:28] <berriop> ooops sorry i dint update the image
[14:29] <Eeyore-Sr> berriop: u need a fat clinet
[14:29] <ogra> Eeyore-Jr, it should work on TCs as well
[14:29] <ogra> at least on clients with intel cards
[14:31] <ogra> but you need to somehow circumvent the local tests for composite support compiz does on startup (i.e. it looks into Xorg.0.log of the server and checks the server HW ... behavior you dont want on on a thin client)
[14:32] <berriop> so do u have compiz working in your clients??
[14:37] <Eeyore-Sr> ogra: really?  now i am confused
[14:42] <berriop> sorry I have to left d computer for a while
[14:43] <berriop> so how can I make compiz to work in the clients?
[14:43] <berriop> now I am using a laptop as a server, a Acer aspire with intel drivers, i guess
[14:45] <ogra> berriop, we played with it in gutsy in the ltsp team ... i havent tried it since but there are surely ways to make it work
[14:46] <berriop> ogra: do you know about any documentation or howto where i can look a?
[14:47] <ogra> nope
[14:48] <berriop> ogra: were u able to set up the 3d desktop cube in the clients?
[14:48] <ogra> yes, there should be some videos on the net somewhere using a classmate PC as thin client
[14:48] <ogra> but dont ask me about the setup :)
[14:49] <berriop> ok, thanks
[14:49] <stgraber> I managed to have compiz running as a localapp, works quite well but it's clearly not something I'm spending a lot of time on :)
[14:49] <berriop> why compiz is not enable on the clients???
[14:49] <stgraber> ogra: btw, http://www.stgraber.org/download/italc-ltsp.png :)
[14:50] <ogra> because most thin client hardware doesnt have composite capable cards
[14:50] <stgraber> that's our ltspdemo server running in Seattle
[14:50] <ogra> wow
[14:50] <ogra> thats a lot of clients
[14:50] <stgraber> 43 clients running on a QuadCore 2.5Ghz with 4GB of RAM, running the whole ltsp-cluster infrastructure (in OpenVZ)
[14:50] <ogra> an a lot of irssi windows as well :P
[14:51] <stgraber> iTalc is running locally and they all have localapps support (firefox, blender, audacity, celestia and skype)
[14:51] <ogra> nice
[14:52] <stgraber> yeah, Intrepid really rocks for LTSP
[14:52] <ogra> yup
[14:52] <ogra> it has the quality i had wished for hardy
[14:53] <stgraber> yeah, and we initialy planned to have Intrepid as a devel-only release for ltsp-cluster but things may change, it's really stable and provides some long-awaited features
[14:53] <berriop> heyy that looks nice
[14:53] <berriop> which manager are you using??
[14:54] <ogra> yeah, intrepid is definately the best ltsp we have atm
[14:56] <berriop> nice to see intrepid is really suitable for ltsp
[14:58] <berriop> ok i can see is italc, but what other manager are there for ltsp admin?
[14:59] <berriop> i need a simple one, not teaching oriented, just showing the clients connected and a few more options
[14:59] <stgraber> ltsp cluster has a configuration manager too, but this one is a bit broken and is pending a complete rewrite
[14:59] <ogra> there is think-client-manager which does a very low level job of user management (like a very cut down italc) and is unmaintained
[14:59] <stgraber> well, then for just showing the clients, iTalc should be good
[15:00] <ogra> yeah
[15:00] <ogra> italc is the thing you want
[15:00] <berriop> ok, i ll try italc
[15:00] <berriop> :)
[15:01] <berriop> and another quest. is anyone working in enable wireless pxe booting??
[15:01] <ogra> ask the hardware manufacturers :)
[15:02] <berriop> do u know any wifi card with pxe enabled?
[15:02] <stgraber> wireless pxe is not possible, you can do fake PXE boot using an initrd with a minimal wireless-aware system but that'll still require a harddisk/ssd/flash/whatever other block device
[15:02] <ogra> you can surely set up a minimal system to boot from a local disk and get up wlan etc ... but pxe happens on a hardware level in the NIC
[15:02] <stgraber> berriop: there's none, that's the problem
[15:03] <stgraber> berriop: you'd need a wireless card with a BIOS that lets you configure your wireless, then PXE boot, but that doesn't exist
[15:03] <berriop> we should make one then :)
[15:03] <berriop> nahhh
[15:04] <stgraber> if you do one, I'd buy one for sure :)
[15:04] <ogra> i think there is a way to use ethernet bridges, with that you can use normal ltsp with a PXE nic thats attached to the bridge
[15:05] <stgraber> yeah, I've done that in a school
[15:05] <stgraber> though you'll need a really good wireless network to do PXE booting
[15:06] <ogra> and/or ltsp :)
[15:06] <stgraber> yeah
[15:06] <ogra> 54Mbit are not really performant
[15:06] <stgraber> especially the X11 data
[15:06] <stgraber> if you're then using NX/RDP or similar stuff it's fine though
[15:07] <ogra> but requires a lot of hacking to ltsp as well
[15:07] <berriop> yep i knew about the bridge but i didnt try it yet
[15:39] <Eeyore-Sr> stgraber: i'm about to purchase a quadcore 2.4 with 4g ram
[15:39] <Eeyore-Sr> irssi windows?
[15:39] <berriop> i am trying to set up italc, i am following this manual http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=702437
[15:40] <stgraber> Eeyore-Sr: for how many clients ?
[15:40] <berriop> when I run the ica command says "errorÑ port 5800" already in use"
[15:40] <berriop> in the client
[15:41] <Eeyore-Sr> stgraber: 7
[15:41] <berriop> how can i set up italc with ltsp?
[15:43] <stgraber> Eeyore-Sr: oh, only, that'll be fine then :)
[15:45] <Eeyore-Sr> my problem is running high end graphics, which i didn't realize was going to be a rpoblem and i was going to need thick clients
[15:46] <berriop> the ltsp section in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/iTalc is empty
[15:46] <Eeyore-Sr> wow, what pic did you send.  it looks like an overview of every desktop?!
[15:46] <berriop> how can i install and run italc with ltsp, I will update the info into the wiki...
[15:47] <Eeyore-Sr> is that italc?  i'd love that abilty
[15:48] <berriop> stgraber??!!
[15:59] <berriop> I am running italc in the server ﻿when I run the ica command in the client says "errorÑ port 5800" already in use"
[15:59] <berriop> how can i change the port that the clients use for ica??
[15:59] <stgraber> sorry I'm doing ISO testing
[16:00] <berriop> its ok
[16:00] <berriop> if you can help me in another time, please let me know it
[16:04] <ogra> if you help iso testing you can speed up stgraber  ;)
[16:05] <berriop> lol
[16:05] <berriop> how can i do iso testing
[16:05] <berriop> ?
[16:05] <berriop> i would be glad to give u a hand
[16:05] <ogra> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[16:06] <berriop> ok i ll have a look at that
[16:20] <berriop> ok, ubuntu server i386 downloading... :)
[17:42] <Lns> I have a question about removing some individual clipart pics from the Ubuntu openclipart-png/-svg .. I've tried manually removing the files but they still show up in the OOo gallery preview. Any cleaner ways to do this?
[17:42] <Lns> Some of them are deemed inappropriate at the elementary schools I work for
[17:43] <Eeyore-Jr> ogra: i can help do iso testing
[17:44] <ogra> Eeyore-Jr, go ahead then :)
[19:13] <Eeyore-Jr> i've got another questions.  virtual machine with windows on it.
[19:14] <Eeyore-Jr> will it come through the pipe
[19:14] <Eeyore-Jr> or online movies?
[19:18] <sbalneav> Eeyore-Jr: Will what come though the pipe?
[19:18] <Eeyore-Jr> online movies to the fat client
[19:18] <Eeyore-Jr> or thin client
[19:19] <sbalneav> Depends on how you set it up.
[19:19] <sbalneav> What online movies are we talking about?  Youtube?
[19:19] <Eeyore-Jr> no, netflix
[19:19] <Eeyore-Jr> thin client --> server --> virtualbox --> windows --> netflix
[19:20] <Eeyore-Jr> or, thin client --> server --> virutalbox --> autodesk
[19:20] <sbalneav> Usually, any kind of fullscreen multimedia application isn't a good fit for a thin client.
[19:20] <Eeyore-Jr> though i don't suppose the people using autodesk should be the same people using online movie viewing
[19:21] <Eeyore-Jr> that's where the fat client comes in.  is there a way to offload the processing to the server but the video to the client?
[19:21] <Eeyore-Jr> or on a fat client must both the processing and the video be done on the fat client?
[19:21] <sbalneav> Well, that's what a thin client is: processing on the server, video on the thin client.
[19:22] <sbalneav> but that means you have to push the video out to the thin client over the wire.
[19:22] <sbalneav> If you want fast video, you'll have to do the processing down on a fat client.
[19:22] <Eeyore-Jr> hrm, i was thinking that everything was happening on the server and then the video was getting pushed over the wire to the client and the client was only doing the display
[19:22] <sbalneav> that's right.
[19:23] <Eeyore-Jr> with new video cards, they won't processes the video alone?
[19:23] <sbalneav> No, they never do.
[19:23]  * Eeyore-Jr starts looking at my stock
[19:23] <sbalneav> Your video card doesn't know anything about avi or mpg4 files.
[19:24] <Eeyore-Jr> ah.  me is wondering when the day will be that processing happens on the video card :)
[19:24] <sbalneav> the processor has to decode them, and produces full frames, and sends them to a video card.
[19:24] <Eeyore-Jr> ok.  well, that clears up the picture for me
[19:24] <sbalneav> in the case of a thin client, the full frame then has to be sent across the network.
[19:25] <Eeyore-Jr> so will you be getting the "fat client" script done before the release, or will this be an after thingy
[19:25] <Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: that makes sense
[19:25] <Eeyore-Jr> now i understand what's going on
[19:25] <sbalneav> Typically, anything very graphics intensive, such as fullscreen video, or OpenGL games (like, say, quake) aren't a good fit for thin clients.
[19:26] <sbalneav> I'm not doing the fat client script.  I only work on the thin client side of things.
[19:26] <sbalneav> No interest in fat clients :)
[19:27] <sbalneav> Sorry, that wasn't clear.  *I* have no interest in fat clients.
[19:27] <sbalneav> Certainly other people are.
[19:28] <Eeyore-Jr> ah.  i thought you were doing something late last week with the server knowing the difference between fat and thin clients
[19:29] <sbalneav> No, I think Nubae's working on fat clients.
[19:29]  * Eeyore-Jr will have to check logs at home
[19:29] <Eeyore-Jr> i recall you talking to LaserJock about something ?
[19:30] <sbalneav> About what?
[19:31]  * Eeyore-Jr forgets
[19:31] <Eeyore-Jr> i forget a lot of stuff
[19:31] <Eeyore-Jr> ah, lstp.conf something
[19:32] <sbalneav> Probably, what did you want to know about?
[19:33] <Eeyore-Jr> let me review my irc logs and make sure i was understanding everything
[19:33] <Eeyore-Jr> ah, something about getting certian things like blender, etc. to work better
[19:34] <sbalneav> Well, you'd probably want to make sure that X isn't being encrypted, whick is the default.
[19:34] <sbalneav> So, you'd want to put in LDM_DIRECTX=true into your lts.conf
[19:38] <Eeyore-Jr> on a side note, with the monitoring application you mentioned, what kind of privacy laws surround it?
[19:39] <sbalneav> What monitoring application?  You mean italc?
[19:41] <Eeyore-Jr> yep
[19:46] <sbalneav> Well, the privacy laws where *I* am are probably quite distinct from the privacy laws where *YOU* are.  Since IANAL, I'd suggest checking with your local lawyer/boss/schoolboard/etc.
[20:01] <Eeyore-Jr> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815101001 - i think this is windows only, as it uses a "virutal" driver
[20:03] <Eeyore-Jr> should i be using cat5e or cat6?
[20:05] <sbalneav> Which, for that product?
[20:05] <sbalneav> It doesn't use a network connection at all.  It's a usb -> vga adapter
[20:08] <Eeyore-Jr> no, for the network.  gigabyte network nics and switch
[20:08] <Eeyore-Jr> nm, let me do my research
[20:09] <Eeyore-Jr> cat6 is what i need
[20:10] <sbalneav> lol, you gotta stop handing me non-sequitors
[20:30] <Eeyore-Jr> :)
[20:44] <Eeyore-Jr> the edubuntu rc is a "addon" iso ?
[20:44] <Eeyore-Jr> is there a way to "freeze" the menu of a particular flavor of *untu
[20:45] <sbalneav> Yes, Edubuntu is an addon cd
[20:45] <Eeyore-Jr> sbalneav: not the ltsp server?
[20:45] <Eeyore-Jr> so i need a flavor first and then the addon
[20:45] <sbalneav> Yes
[20:45] <sbalneav> Usually, you'd install Ubuntu, then add on the Edubuntu cd.
[20:46] <sbalneav> Sabayon is the tool you'd use to lock down desktops.
[20:46] <Eeyore-Jr> ah, kewl for the info on sabyon.  that is part of the "add-on" cd
[20:47] <Eeyore-Jr> so somebody said something about ldm vs gdm or kdm
[20:48]  * Eeyore-Jr hrm, i was thinking saboyon was a linux flavor
[21:00] <Eeyore-Jr> k, nm, found it
[21:00] <Eeyore-Jr> i found an artilce that suggests that kde kiosk has better tools?
[21:01] <sbalneav> Dunno, I never use KDE.
[21:01] <sbalneav> looks too much like windows.
[21:03] <Eeyore-Jr> :)
[21:04] <sbalneav> Gave that bad habit up years ago.
[21:04] <sbalneav> Windows 98 was the last version of Windows I ran.
[21:05] <sbalneav> Discovered Linux in '93, ran both 'till '99, been running without windows at all since Late '99
[21:05] <sbalneav> next year will be my 10th anniversary.
[21:51] <Lns> sbalneav: *party* !
[21:51]  * Lns has been running various Linux distros since ~95
[21:54] <Lns> and I'd say I'm MS free (besides quickbooks, which mostly my accountant uses) since ...eh... 2004? It's hard when your business is partly supporting M$ users =p
[21:57] <Eeyore-Jr> same here.  however, i've been pretty much a user since 2003
[21:58] <Eeyore-Jr> all of my people are windows.  this will be the first *nix network
[21:58] <Lns> Eeyore-Jr: congrats!
[21:59] <Lns> and good luck with all of the resistance ;)
[22:02] <Eeyore-Jr> it's a test lab, we will see
[22:02] <Eeyore-Jr> i've been looking for way to intergrate windows apps.  i'm scared i might have stuck myself out on a limb so to speak
[22:07] <Lns> Eeyore-Jr: what windows apps do you need?
[22:10] <Eeyore-Jr> autodesk
[22:10] <Eeyore-Jr> some piano learning software
[22:10] <Eeyore-Jr> artrage
[22:12] <Lns> hmm...autodesk would be difficult to run in a linux env, let alone TC env
[22:12] <Lns> pretty damn intensive and tied up w/MS stuff...i don't think cxoffice even supports that
[22:17] <Eeyore-Jr> virtualbox
[22:17] <Eeyore-Jr> virtualbox & windows xp pro
[22:22] <Lns> there ya go
[22:23]  * Lns almost always prefers Virtualization over wine/friends
[22:35] <Eeyore-Sr> u can run vbox via ltsp ?
[22:35] <Eeyore-Sr> er over?
[22:46] <Lns> I tried vbox before, ran into some networking issues...I like vmware *ducks* it's free and works very well.