[00:17] <ScottK> StevenK: Based on your changelog entry, I'll ack that.
[00:19] <StevenK> ScottK: Cool. I saw the bug fix, compared the versions, and thought it was easy enough and serious enough to fix
[00:19] <StevenK> Drat, I generated the .changes file wrong
[00:20] <ScottK> StevenK: Reject it quick then because I already asked for it to be accepted (or don't worry about it)
[00:20] <YokoZar> Who can I poke for another motu-release ack?
[00:20] <YokoZar> It's a very simple change that fixes two big bugs in Wine :)
[00:20] <StevenK> ScottK: It isn't a real problem
[00:21] <ScottK> Yes.
[00:21] <ScottK> YokoZar: What is it?
[00:21] <YokoZar> ScottK: the wine bug you acked earlier ;)
[00:22] <ScottK> Oh.  That wasn't in the upload you did already?
[00:22] <ScottK> Urgh.
[00:22] <YokoZar> Yeah it was
[00:22] <YokoZar> Sorry
[00:22] <YokoZar> The upload just needs to be built
[00:22] <YokoZar> Err approved
[00:22] <ScottK> It needs accepted and I've asked.  Maybe StevenK will do it ...
[00:23] <YokoZar> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/223989
[00:23] <StevenK> Will I? :-)
[00:24] <persia> StevenK, Perhaps.  It's a mystery.  Do you have a coin?  Are both sides heads?
[00:27] <YokoZar> If anyone has any idea WHY this upload was necessary it would be helpful, by the way. If I put a Gnome launcher in the Applications menu that says "xdg-open $home/foo" it is now being turned into "xdg-open /home/user/$HOME/foo" and then failing
[00:27] <YokoZar> I'm not sure if that's a bug or a deliberate change
[00:27] <YokoZar> Running xdg-open $HOME/foo from a terminal still works as expected
[00:38] <RAOF> YokoZar: Without experimenting, I wouldn't expect environment-variable substitutions to be carried out in launchers; thus "xdg-open $home/foo" would be expanded as "$(CWD)/$home/foo", since it's relative.
[00:44] <YokoZar> RAOF: ahh, ok.  It does do ~ though.
[00:44] <RAOF> Really?  That's also somewhat of a shell-ism.  It surprises me less than env substitution, though.
[00:45] <RAOF> It's kinda annoying :)
[00:52] <ScottK> StevenK: Pretty please on wine?
[00:58] <ScottK> StevenK: Never mind.
[00:58] <ScottK> YokoZar: It's accepted.
[01:02] <ScottK> persia: You're correct.  Universe goes ahead of Language Packs.
[01:02] <persia> ScottK, Even today?  I thought it might get tuned the other way in the rush for images.
[01:03] <ScottK> persia: Yes.  Just tested by the strongswan build just accepted already building on i386
[01:05] <persia> That seems a risky plan, but maybe it's less risky to throttle uploads than to fiddle with priorities at this point.  it's what, about 8 hours to hard freeze?
[01:05] <ScottK> 5 ish by my math, but it's not a hard stop necessarily.
[01:06] <StevenK> It probably is for stuff on images
[01:06] <StevenK> Hm. Can I upload 4 packages in 5 hours?
[01:06] <persia> Is there anything on images pending?
[01:06] <StevenK> (Then I hit tenth spot on UTU)
[01:07] <persia> StevenK, Grab some RC bugs : they aren't on images generally.
[01:14]  * StevenK wonders if UTU credits syncs correctly
[01:15] <ScottK> StevenK: I think it does, although not all of mine that someone tagged to ~scottk instead of ~kitterman.
[01:15] <StevenK> Heh
[01:15] <StevenK> It looks like we can fix 2 rcs with two syncs
[01:16] <ScottK> The aren't long builds are they?
[01:17] <persia> StevenK, UTU credits syncs properly iff the archive admin gets the Changed-By: line correct in .changes.
[01:17] <StevenK> ScottK: I've not downloaded them yet to check.
[01:18] <StevenK> Right. There's four.
[01:19] <ScottK> OK.
[01:20] <StevenK> ScottK: I'll churn over them nowish
[01:20] <ScottK> OK.
[01:20] <ScottK> persia: Did you look at the virtualbox question I asked earlier?
[01:20] <ScottK> Do we care?
[01:22] <persia> ScottK, To me, virtualbox is an annoyance, and I don't know any good way to fix it.  From what I hear, it doesn't DKMS well, and everything else leaves it semi-broken.
[01:22] <StevenK> Oh geez.
[01:22] <StevenK> The orig tarball for gcl is 8MB, and the diff.gz is 14MB
[01:22] <ScottK> I'd leave that for last.
[01:23] <ScottK> Unless you really want to mess with it, ask NCommander.  He loves gcl.
[01:23] <StevenK> Yeah, it takes ~ 30 minutes to build
[01:23] <NCommander> StevenK, try decompressing that diff.gz
[01:23] <StevenK> NCommander: Dun wanna
[01:23] <NCommander> StevenK, it bloated up to 70MB, and the complete source to binutils, and parts of GCC
[01:23] <NCommander> and no patch system
[01:23] <NCommander> Its ALL inlined
[01:24]  * NCommander hands StevenK acid for his eyes
[01:24] <StevenK> Oh, the burning feels like cleaning
[01:24] <persia> Oh.  Native / non-native.  If wgrant isn't right, the solution is to fake-bump the upstream version (2.0.4-dfsg1-0ubuntu1).  Needs testing against a PPA.
[01:24] <NCommander> StevenK, there is a reason I won't touch gcl
[01:25]  * StevenK kicks off test builds for three of them
[01:25] <ScottK> persia: I'm fairly certain I don't care at the moment.  Should I?
[01:25] <persia> ScottK, No good reason to care, that I see.
[01:26] <ScottK> THanks.
[01:26] <StevenK> One built
[01:26] <persia> blueyed should be dinged, but that's about it.  Not worth SRU to fix, and it'll get SRU'd at the next kernel bump anyway, and can be fixed then.
[01:27] <ScottK> Yep.
[01:30]  * StevenK files sync requests
[01:31] <StevenK> s/ts$/t/ # currently
[01:31] <StevenK> ScottK: Bug 289703
[01:33] <ScottK> StevenK: Ack'ed.  Go for it.
[01:34] <StevenK> ScottK: I'll bundle them, or try to
[01:43] <StevenK> ScottK: And bug 289706
[01:46] <ScottK> StevenK: Ack'ed.
[01:53] <StevenK> ScottK: And bug 289709
[01:54] <ScottK> StevenK: Done.
[01:55] <StevenK> ScottK: Are you irritated by me yet? :-)
[01:55] <ScottK> Nope.
[01:56] <ScottK> Besides, I'm reviewing one I'm going to need someone to accept in ~20 or 30 minutes.
[01:59] <ScottK> YokoZar: Any idea why Soyuz things wine is supposed to be built on hppa?
[01:59] <ScottK> That isn't going to work, is it?
[02:00] <stgraber> AFAIK Windows doesn't exist on hppa so I have some doubts you can find an hppa .exe :)
[02:00] <stgraber> (and then wine has just no reason to exist)
[02:01]  * StevenK checks P-a-s
[02:01]  * ScottK was going to point young YokoZar in that direction (IIRC I've mentioned it before).
[02:01] <YokoZar> Yeah I've seen it before
[02:01] <StevenK> That's neatly odd. P-a-s looks right
[02:02] <ScottK> Maybe YokoZar wasn't nice enough to lamont.
[02:02] <YokoZar> Maybe I should just change the control file?
[02:02] <ScottK> If it's in p-a-s, that won't affect things.  p-a-s takes precedence.
[02:02] <YokoZar> Wine will (eventually) be built on other arches though, for running winelib apps
[02:03] <ScottK> It's easy enough to get p-a-s changed when the time comes.
[02:03] <YokoZar> Yeah but if it "looks right" then there's something else weird
[02:07] <StevenK> ScottK: Bah, my pattern broke; bug 289714
[02:07] <ScottK> Too slow.
[02:07] <StevenK> I was waiting for it to build and install!
[02:09] <ScottK> StevenK: Ack'ed.
[02:10]  * StevenK processes all four of them
[02:14] <ScottK> Wahoo.  All the non-dead buildd's running.
[02:18]  * stgraber wonders why "Arch: all" are always built on i386, they could be built on any of the other archs as well ... (and that'd avoid that 355 builds pending thing)
[02:19] <ScottK> stgraber: Generally it's not a major issue.  We have an extra i386 buildd to compensate, but normally we don't get a full language pack dump right before release either.
[02:20] <ScottK> In Debian with binary uploads, such packages are never built on the buildd's and are built on whatever arch the maintainer uses.
[02:22] <persia> stgraber, It's selected as being most likely to match the majority of users.  There are a few packages that broke because of the selection, but an unfortunately large number of arch:all packages make assumptions about the architecture of the build host, so it's just safer to have it be i386.
[02:23] <StevenK> Woot. I haz tenth spot
[02:27] <persia> geser, nhandler Quick : StevenK is winning.  Grab some RCbugs fast before the archive closes!
[02:28] <persia> Hmm.  Actually, given the timing, I suspect there's little chance of that.  Advantages of being in signficantly positive timezones.
[02:28] <nhandler> persia: That is ok. I'm not going to get 40 packages uploaded. I'll beat him in Jaunty
[02:29] <persia> nhandler, You're in -7 right?
[02:29] <StevenK> Haha
[02:29] <nhandler> persia: -5 right now
[02:29] <StevenK> nhandler: Did you see what I managed in Gutsy?
[02:29] <nhandler> No StevenK. Let me check
[02:30] <nhandler> 413, very nice StevenK
[02:30]  * persia vaguely wonders why it only goes back to Dapper
[02:30] <nhandler> persia: Did they have -changes mailing lists pre-dapper?
[02:30]  * wgrant notes that whoever keeps putting 'Done' comments should probably demote the bugs as well.
[02:30] <persia> Yes.  Perhaps the archives are going away.  The Feisty uploads list is empty now.
[02:32] <nhandler> On a side note, how long does it usually take for the new repositories to open after a release?
[02:32]  * wgrant only has complete archives from Edgy onwards.
[02:32] <wgrant> They generally open during/after UDS, but UDS is really late this time.
[02:33] <nhandler> I really hope they open before UDS. I don't know if I could stand waiting that long
[02:33] <wgrant> I suspect they will.
[02:33] <wgrant> Given that Intrepid isn't an LTS, and UDS is late.
[02:33] <StevenK> nhandler: A week to ten days after it is added to Launchpad
[02:34] <nhandler> Thanks StevenK. I'll be waiting. And congrats on becoming #10 on UTU
[02:34] <ScottK> StevenK: Would you please accept kvirc when it appears.
[02:35] <StevenK> ScottK: Certainly
[02:35] <ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
[02:35] <NCommander> ScottK, can I get an ACK from you?
[02:35] <persia> I never remember them opening *after* UDS.  Once during, but usually the week before or so (although I also hope this will be ~ mid-november)
[02:35] <NCommander> ScottK, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-rt/+bug/289683
[02:36]  * TheMuso looks.
[02:36]  * persia downloads the debdiff in hopes of a positive answer
[02:38] <ScottK> persia: Cory already ack'ed it and I think we can (barely) fit it in build wise, so I'd so go ahead.
[02:38] <ScottK> I think after that and kvirc though we need to wait a while and see how fast i386 drains.
[02:39]  * wgrant will be glad when the buildds are pooled.
[02:39] <wgrant> Damn, that's a fair way behind.
[02:39] <persia> NCommander, And I don't need to bump lrm-rt, right?
[02:39] <ScottK> Yeah, well dump 400+ language packs in ~8 hours before final freeze and that's what you get.
[02:40] <NCommander> persia, I think you only need to bump lrm-rt if you break the ABI
[02:40]  * NCommander checks the manual
[02:40] <wgrant> That's correct.
[02:40] <wgrant> lrm only depends on the ABI.
[02:40] <TheMuso> Arch all on i386 makes sense, but IMO langpacks should be done globally to speed them up. :)
[02:40] <wgrant> langpacks are also normally done in PPAs.
[02:40] <wgrant> But that won't matter soon, as the buildds will be same, I hear.
[02:41] <persia> PPA will just be lower priority?
[02:41] <wgrant> I think so.
[02:41] <wgrant> There's a bug open to work out the priorities.
[02:41] <persia> Does this also mean more arches for PPAs?
[02:41] <wgrant> No, since not all arches can be virtualised.
[02:41] <ScottK> persia: PPA is a Launchpad project.  Ubuntu is not.  Take a guess how it works out.
[02:41] <stgraber> so we'll have parts of Ubuntu building in Xen ?
[02:42] <wgrant> The plan seems to be to unify lpia/i386/amd64 buildds into one multi-arch primary/PPA pool.
[02:42] <persia> ScottK, I'm not worried about that.  Ubuntu has a fair bit of weight when it comes to certain classes of uploads.
[02:42] <ScottK> Odd thing about my UTU rankings.  Feisty was the first one I was involved in development in - 34, gutsy - 15, hardy - 15, intrepid (so far) - 15.
[02:43] <TheMuso> wgrant: That makes a lot of sense.
[02:43] <NCommander> UTU?
[02:43] <wgrant> TheMuso: Definitely.
[02:43] <wgrant> Ubuntu Top Uploaders
[02:43] <persia> ScottK, You were all excited in Feisty.
[02:43] <NCommander> wgrant, link?
[02:43] <wgrant> http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/utu/utu_intrepid.php
[02:43] <ScottK> It's just odd coming out the exact same numerical rank for 3 consecutive releases.
[02:43] <ScottK> Particularly since I quit for part of one of those.
[02:44] <NCommander> wooo, 38
[02:44] <NCommander> I'm four packages behind persia
[02:44] <persia> ScottK, You weren't very good at quitting.  You uploaded stuff even when you were most inactive.
[02:44] <ScottK> Yeah.
[02:44] <persia> NCommander, It's *really* not hard to get ahead of me.
[02:44] <persia> I'm one of the lowest-upload-count people of those who watch RCbugs or mdt.
[02:44] <persia> (or NBS for that matter).
[02:45] <NCommander> 57 uploads isn't anything to stick your nose up at
[02:45] <ScottK> stgraber: kvirc should have appeared for you now.
[02:45] <wgrant> RCbugs is looking fairly good this release. Thanks to those that had time to look at it!
[02:45] <NCommander> Someone needs to dethrone Riddell for jaunty
[02:45]  * persia gives three cheers to sebner for chasing RCbugs ever since DIF
[02:45] <ScottK> ajmitch's improvements to it make it a lot easier to focus on what needs focusing on.
[02:45] <TheMuso> Blame kde-i18n packages. :p
[02:46] <ScottK> TheMuso: No.  Blame Launchpad.
[02:46] <persia> Well, and nobody else sponsoring Kubuntu stuff.
[02:46] <ScottK> Oh, wrong topic.
[02:46] <ScottK> I thought we were on buildd backlog again.
[02:46] <stgraber> ScottK: hmm, kvirc ?? You probably got the wrong s* :)
[02:46] <wgrant> ScottK: Those were actually my improvements.
[02:46] <ScottK> Ah.
[02:47] <TheMuso> ScottK: I was basically saying Jonathan is as high as he is because of the tens of i18n uploads.
[02:47] <ScottK> wgrant: Thank you for those.
[02:47] <ScottK> TheMuso: Yep.  I finally got that.
[02:47] <ScottK> stgraber: ?  Yes, kvirc.
[02:47] <wgrant> ScottK: Why are we blaming Launchpad for buildd lag?
[02:48] <wgrant> I wonder if hppa will catch up if somebody doesn't bounce primeor.
[02:48] <persia> Because of the difficulty extracting langpacks.
[02:48] <wgrant> Ah, true.
[02:48] <ScottK> wgrant: Because the translation process is a byzantine mess, templates didn't get approved until late, and then Rosetta was finicky and didn't like anything about KDE4 for some important languages.
[02:48] <stgraber> ScottK: hmm, I don't use kvirc (and I don't use KDE). Are your sure you're talking to the right person ?
[02:48] <wgrant> And then LP hung at least 5 times during exports.
[02:48] <wgrant> Which stopped other builds.
[02:49] <ScottK> wgrant: I think Rosetta design is more broken than soyuz.
[02:49] <wgrant> Rosetta has to deal with a lot of stuff.
[02:49] <ScottK> stgraber: Ah.  Sorry.  Bad tab completion.  That was meant for StevenK.
[02:49] <wgrant> An awwwful lot of stuff.
[02:49] <wgrant> But yes, it needs fixing.
[02:49] <StevenK> ScottK: Sorry. kvirc accepted
[02:49] <ScottK> StevenK: Thanks.
[02:50]  * StevenK got distracted
[02:50] <ScottK> No problem.
[02:50] <ScottK> StevenK: persia should have a new kernel for you to accept here in a minute.
[02:50] <wgrant> Are we hardfreezing once the langpacks are through?
[02:51] <ScottK> wgrant: Someone suggested 0600 UTC to slangasek and he suggested that was about the right time.
[02:51] <wgrant> Hmmm. I wonder if they'll finish by then.
[02:52] <persia> There's just not much more time on the buildds, unless someone has something that doesn't need i386.
[02:53] <ScottK> persia: The kernel goes on a derivative CD and the lang packs go on almost no CDs, so I'd say go ahead, but I don't plan on approving anything else.
[02:53] <ScottK> StevenK: There it is now.
[02:53] <wgrant> hppa is going to be a few hours too late.
[02:53] <ScottK> linux-rt
[02:54] <ScottK> wgrant: We could make it weeks late if we retried more stuff.
[02:54] <persia> ScottK, That kernel doesn't go on any CDs.
[02:54] <StevenK> ScottK: Done
[02:54] <wgrant> Er, langpacks in NEW?
[02:54] <persia> ScottK, It has some bugs (like no SMP support), so it's not default.
[02:54] <persia> wgrant, more languages must have passed the 40% barrier.
[02:54] <StevenK> -syr, -pap, -arn, and -bra
[02:54] <wgrant> I guess. They're all three-letter ones, too.
[02:55] <StevenK> No -tlh
[02:55] <slangasek> given where the langpacks are, we may need to stop accepting other packages sooner so that the backlog clears (or else someone should handhold the queues to make sure all the langpacks are done first that need to be)
[02:55] <slangasek> StevenK: those are supposed to not be generated; I'll nuke them from NEW
[02:55] <StevenK> slangasek: I think we're pretty much done.
[02:55] <StevenK> slangasek: Ah, kay
[02:55] <ScottK> slangasek: I'd already reached that conclusion.  I'm not accepting anything else until the backlog drains some.
[02:56] <StevenK> slangasek: I can process the other things in binary NEW if you wish
[02:56] <Hobbsee> slangasek: re: handholding, that's going to be a pain in theneck
[02:56] <slangasek> StevenK: sure, feel free
[02:56] <slangasek> Hobbsee: the alternative to handholding is to just not accept anything else that's not critical until the queue drains
[02:57] <slangasek> and evaluate whether we can afford to squeeze anything in after that
[02:57] <NCommander> A HPPA buildd bit the dust :-/
[02:57] <Hobbsee> slangasek: that might be more sane.  afaik, there is now *no* way to rescore builds, short of going to LP itself.
[02:57] <StevenK> At least palmer grabbed linux-rt
[02:57] <persia> Just for the avoidance of doubt : linux-rt is *less* important than the langpacks, as it's not part of the install for any users.
[02:57] <StevenK> (It's the fastest i386 buildd)
[02:57] <wgrant> StevenK: Lucky
[02:57] <persia> Well, if it's already building.
[02:58] <ScottK> It is.
[02:58] <NCommander> virtual buildds should at least be able to take load off the non-virtual ones :-/
[02:58] <wgrant> Isn't it only the one flavour?
[02:58] <slangasek> StevenK: being grabbed by the fastest buildd doesn't help when the backlog is > 3 buildds wide and hours deep :)
[02:58] <wgrant> Or somebody could assign the 20 recently moved PPA buildds to primary i386 for the next couple of hours.
[02:58] <wgrant> But I suppose it's not quite that easy.
[02:58]  * ScottK enjoys the empty "Bugs related to MOTU Release Team" page.
[02:59] <StevenK> slangasek: Hehe :-)
[02:59] <StevenK> Er, yeah. Where did the 2 billion PPA buildds go?
[02:59] <wgrant> I believe they got moved.
[03:00] <persia> ScottK, Nice job to get that clean.
[03:00] <wgrant> But you can imagine that infinity is busy setting them up non-virtually if you want. :P
[03:01] <StevenK> Given the time in Calgary, I bet he isn't. :-P
[03:02] <NCommander> how many hours until final freeze?
[03:02] <StevenK> Ten minutes shorter now
[03:02] <persia> NCommander, 3, but the buildds have to drain.
[03:02] <NCommander> so if the buildds are still building, we don't get screwed?
[03:02] <ScottK> Not really in this case.
[03:03] <StevenK> NCommander: That isn't an invite to get them to keep building
[03:03] <ScottK> hppa is screwed regardless.
[03:03] <persia> If the buildds are still building, the release manager will likely bark at MOTU Release.  If they drain with a publisher cycle to spare, we can push a few more RCbugs.
[03:03] <NCommander> ScottK, they are a builder down, what can we do
[03:03] <StevenK> hppa has been screwed all cycle
[03:03] <ScottK> On i386 we'd be short some language packs.
[03:03] <ScottK> NCommander: Even if everying pending built it would still be screwed.
[03:03] <wgrant> hppa has been screwed since it was revived in Feisty.
[03:03] <persia> Being short language packs is bad, because they go on the DVD images.
[03:03] <wgrant> It had thousands of pending builds when we released Feisty, IIRC.
[03:04] <ScottK> It's substantially worse now than on Hardy.
[03:04] <persia> wgrant, hppa only had a couple hundred outstanding builds for gutsy.  Best release since Breezy, I'd say.
[03:04] <wgrant> Hardy had a nice freeze to fix things up.
[03:04] <ScottK> If my math was correct, it should land about right.
[03:04] <NCommander> Why was it revivied in feisty?
[03:04] <ScottK> If not, then slangasek can yell at me.
[03:04] <persia> NCommander, Someone wanted it enough to put buildds in the DC.
[03:04] <wgrant> NCommander: Because it was gone for a release or two.
[03:05] <StevenK> NCommander: Because lamont loves hppa
[03:05] <TheMuso> NCommander: No different to how we love PowerPC, and want to see the port survive.
[03:05] <wgrant> The buildds had been there forever, but the port was missing for Edgy at least.
[03:05] <ScottK> It was missing because I can't remember what threads thing was totally broken on hppa at the time.
[03:06] <wgrant> NPTL
[03:06] <ScottK> Now it's only sort of broken.
[03:06] <wgrant> IIRC
[03:06] <ScottK> Yeah.
[03:06] <ScottK> That's the one.
[03:06] <StevenK> Yeah, it's NPTL
[03:06]  * TheMuso has memories of NPTL, relating to audio and realtime/Jack.
[03:06] <TheMuso> From before his Ubuntu days.
[03:06] <wgrant> Launchpad is going to fall over in an hour or so, isn't it?
[03:06] <ScottK> Please don't.
[03:07]  * Hobbsee clubs wgrant
[03:07] <Hobbsee> wgrant: dont' give it ideas.
[03:07] <NCommander> wgrant, fall over?
[03:07] <ScottK> Please don't be letting out those negative waves.
[03:07]  * NCommander should grab a coffee and watch LP chug along
[03:07] <ScottK> NCommander: That's what usually happens when you've been clubbed.
[03:07] <StevenK> Hm. two minutes per langpack
[03:08] <persia> That's not so bad.  Initial estimates were 4-6 minutse.
[03:08] <slangasek> StevenK: measured over how long an interval?
[03:08] <StevenK> One whole langpack
[03:08] <NCommander> lol
[03:08] <StevenK> So don't listen to me :-)
[03:08] <slangasek> so fairly inexact
[03:08]  * NCommander just hopes that no langpacks FTBFS
[03:08] <Hobbsee> although I note it is now taking 32 seconds to load https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu, so i'm wondering if it's under high load again or something
[03:09] <StevenK> NCommander: It's a bunch of cp and debhelper
[03:09] <NCommander> StevenK, when there is a will, there is a way
[03:09] <stgraber> Hobbsee: ah, it's not just my crappy internet ?
[03:09] <Hobbsee> stgraber: i don't think so
[03:09] <slangasek> Hobbsee: hum; if you notice that this persists, please yell and I'll try to escalate before we crash & burn
[03:09] <Hobbsee> stgraber: i'm getting that whether i proxy from the US, or whether I go direct from au
[03:09] <Hobbsee> slangasek: which problem?
[03:09] <slangasek> the "bugs iz slow"
[03:10] <Hobbsee> slangasek: ahhh.  Will do, although i usually reserve that for the "slavescanner and friends have collapsed"
[03:15] <StevenK> lpia is back to idle, so that's a good sign
[03:16] <NCommander> yay
[03:16]  * NCommander is off to get some coffee and food
[03:16] <slangasek> fairly meaningless, the backlog has all been i386 for langpacks
[03:16] <Hobbsee> slangasek: you can't convert some ppa i386 machines to other ones, can you?
[03:16] <StevenK> slangasek: It means kvirc ought to finish soon at least, freeing up another buildd for langpacks
[03:16] <slangasek> Hobbsee: I can't convert anything
[03:16] <wgrant> kvirc is very nearly done
[03:17] <Hobbsee> slangasek: hmm.  It occurs to me that I probably can.  I'd just hope not to break the world.
[03:17] <ScottK> I wouldn't have gone for that one except it was an exploitable security bug.
[03:17]  * Hobbsee glances at all the multiple pages of switches
[03:17] <wgrant> Builder/+admin is required.
[03:18] <slangasek> I'm going to watch the queues for a spell to try to estimate a completion time for the queue; if my estimate worries me I would consider poking someone
[03:18] <Hobbsee> wgrant: i've got that.
[03:18] <wgrant> But I think somebody would explode you.
[03:18] <wgrant> slangasek: Find the lowest priority build.
[03:18] <Hobbsee> wgrant: that's what I was suspecting.  Just thinking it's an option.
[03:18]  * ScottK reviews his disaster preparedness plans.
[03:18] <slangasek> wgrant: hmm?
[03:18] <wgrant> slangasek: Builds have an estimated start time.
[03:18] <wgrant> So if you find the one at the end of the queue, you should be able to work something out.
[03:19] <Hobbsee> Queued:  	4 hours ago
[03:19] <Hobbsee> Estimated build start: 	in 6 hours
[03:19] <StevenK> Woot. Below 300
[03:19] <NCommander> o_o;
[03:19] <slangasek> but I don't know what that estimated build time is based on, whereas I /can/ estimate the rate of progress :)
[03:19] <Hobbsee> slangasek: probably multiplying by the page number or something
[03:19] <Hobbsee> ;)
[03:19] <wgrant> It takes into account historical build time, but that of course dies because of palmer.
[03:19] <wgrant> Which is markedly faster than the others.
[03:20]  * persia gets more annoyed at being mailed edge URLs.  Just because the person leaving a comment is a beta tester doesn't mean I don't want access to the buttons.
[03:20] <wgrant> persia: You could always log into edge.
[03:20] <NCommander> persia, what buttons?
[03:21] <RAOF> I thought edge did auto-redirect for non-beta users?
[03:21] <ScottK> persia: If it's bugmail, it's LP doing that and there is an open bug on it.
[03:21] <wgrant> RAOF: It doesn't.
[03:21] <ScottK> Not for a long time.
[03:21] <wgrant> beta did, edge doesn't.
[03:21] <RAOF> That sucks more than I thought, then.
[03:21] <persia> wgrant, Actually, I can't.  I'm not on the whiltelist for that (by choice).
[03:21] <ScottK> Yeah.  That's it.
[03:21] <wgrant> persia: It's not whitelisted any more.
[03:21] <persia> ScottK, Yeah.  I've been active on that bug.
[03:21] <wgrant> persia: beta.lp.net was, but edge hasn't been for 18 months.
[03:22] <persia> Ah.  Stiil, edge tends to have lots of broken stuff : I like to find out about it all at once : reduces my sense of pain.
[03:22] <ScottK> Personally I find discovering bad stuff on edge more depressing.
[03:23] <ScottK> If it's in production, they say "sorry, too late it's in production".
[03:23] <ScottK> I can understand that.
[03:23] <Hobbsee> i'm currently finding that edge behaves like production now anyway, so reconsidering my subscription to edge.
[03:23] <ScottK> If it's on edge, they say "No, we don't care how much it hurts, we aren't changing it"
[03:23]  * StevenK hasn't found edge so painful
[03:23] <ScottK> And that's more depressing.
[03:23] <wgrant> I find it's good to use edge so I can complain about stupidity and get it fixed.
[03:25] <wgrant> kvirc finally finished!
[03:25] <ScottK> wgrant: You mean like re-implmementing the reload button in a hyperlink?
[03:26] <wgrant> ScottK: It's not quite that, but in most cases you're right.
[03:26] <wgrant> I don't think anybody will work out its intended purpose if they need to use it.
[03:26] <persia> I actually ran across a case yesterday where that would have been useful.
[03:27] <wgrant> But that bug should be fixed by redirecting.
[03:27] <ScottK> wgrant: Yes, but I generally copy/paste off that spot several times a day.
[03:27] <persia> wgrant, Yes.
[03:27] <slangasek> 7 langpacks done in a 10-minute interval
[03:27] <wgrant> ScottK: I generally use the address bar, as it avoids mousing.
[03:27] <wgrant> slangasek: Note that we have another buildd now.
[03:27] <ScottK> So they fix another bug in a totally obscure and unusable way and ....
[03:27] <wgrant> And we might have another one it not too long.
[03:27] <persia> slangasek, So ~350 minutes left?
[03:27] <wgrant> My typing is atrocious today.
[03:28] <slangasek> assuming the build time is fairly constant across languages, that's 7 hours to completion
[03:28] <wgrant> I think we need more buildds.
[03:28] <persia> With ~400 langpacks on the DVD, I'm guessing rescheduling stuff won't help much.
[03:28] <persia> Well, we need a more sensible way to handle langpacks.
[03:28] <wgrant> At least English is building now.
[03:28]  * persia *really* dislikes langpacks changelogs
[03:29] <slangasek> wgrant: which is the another buildd?  I still only see 3 building langpacks
[03:29] <wgrant> We can't exactly implement a more sensible way right now.
[03:29] <persia> wgrant, No.  Certainly not today.
[03:29] <wgrant> slangasek: rothera only started building langpacks a couple of minutes before you gave you 10-minute average.
[03:29] <slangasek> oh, there's still non-langpack stuff out there, mumble
[03:29] <slangasek> (linux-rt building now on palmer)
[03:30] <wgrant> Right.
[03:30] <wgrant> That's the last of it.
[03:30] <persia> Unfortunately, linux-rt takes 45-60 minutes depending on the buildd, which will be a bit more.
[03:30] <Hobbsee> persia: well, no one can cancel it, so it's going to have to build.
[03:31] <persia> Yep.  it's my fault for waiting too long for the rumoured 2.6.27-7-15.  Sorry.
[03:31] <wgrant> +cancel is such a useful page.
[03:31] <Hobbsee> wgrant: you mean the (12) Not implemented yet?
[03:31] <ScottK> I think it'll land just about right.
[03:31] <Hobbsee> wgrant: but it's nice and shiny...
[03:32] <wgrant> Hobbsee: That one.
[03:32] <Hobbsee> and i'ts been improved from what it was.  It just never actually got the backend work done on it
[03:32] <persia> Oh, with the clock change in the UK, I suspect we're probably OK, it's just always tight.
[03:38] <persia> ScottK, Sorry.  cut&paste To: line.
[03:39] <ScottK> ?
[03:41]  * persia is actively reading mail for the first time in a while
[03:43] <ScottK> I'm subscribed to both of the mail lists you sent it to, so no problem.
[03:44] <NCommander> back
[03:45] <wgrant> linux-rt is finishing up.
[03:45] <ScottK> OK.  That was 4 in 10 minutes with two buildd's on the problem.  Maybe I was optimistic.
[03:47] <slangasek> average of 2.25min/build now
[03:47] <wgrant> OK, onto langpacks only now.
[03:48] <wgrant> I wonder how much quicker palmer is at langpacks, given their specialness.
[03:48]  * NCommander wishes we could magicially make more i386 builds
[03:54] <wgrant> 11 in 10 minutes, and that's with palmer out for a third of it. Hmm.
[03:54] <wgrant> It varies.
[03:55] <cody-somerville> NCommander, I can't understand why. The build queue is only at 9.15hours! :P
[03:57] <NCommander> wgrant, its down 40 since I left to get food
[03:59]  * wgrant -> tute
[03:59]  * wgrant wishes the i386 buildds good luck.
[04:03] <Hobbsee> 263 builds...getting down...
[04:07] <StevenK> I wonder if hppa will be still be at 20 builds when i386 breaks 200
[04:08] <ScottK> It'd help if someone would give primero a kick.
[04:14] <persia> It's getting to be Monday in more places : perhaps there's a chance of that soon.
[04:31] <txwikinger2> ScottK: I think I have fixed the issue for kio-sword
[04:31] <ScottK> txwikinger2: OK.  It is to late for Intrepid.
[04:31] <ScottK> txwikinger2: Once you get it into Jaunty, we can backport it.
[04:31] <txwikinger2> yes that is ok
[04:32] <StevenK> Eeek. I thought it was 275 builds waiting. Turns out I misread it and it's 225.
[04:33] <wgrant> StevenK: Why 'Eek'? Isn't that a good thing?
[04:34] <coppro> when do the repos lock?
[04:34] <StevenK> wgrant: More as in, "Eeek! Oh, right."
[04:34] <ScottK> When slangasek mashes the big red button that slams the brakes on.
[04:36] <wgrant> What's involved? Switching the publisher cronjob off and not running it manually again?
[04:38] <persia> wgrant, At least, although if we're still running it manually at this point, it's different for this cycle.
[04:49] <StevenK> There we go. hppa is still at 20 builds, and i386 has hit 198
[04:52] <persia> 9 of those 20 are expected to go to dep-wait though, which should make some bits go faster.
[04:53] <ScottK> Is kohnen even moving anymore?
[04:55] <StevenK> Looks very similar to when it checked it before
[04:58]  * StevenK wonders if #ubuntu-release-party is up yet
[04:59] <ScottK> No, I think most of that crowd is thinking it's a very important time to be testing so that $THEIRPETBUG can get fixed before release.
[05:00] <StevenK> Argh. One package in NBS
[05:00]  * RAOF wonders whether there's a Sydney release party.
[05:00] <StevenK> slangasek: I'm binary killing libanculus-sharp, it's NBS
[05:00] <slangasek> StevenK: too late
[05:00] <slangasek> :)
[05:00] <StevenK> Awww!
[05:00] <StevenK> slangasek: Too late, since you have, or too late in general?
[05:01] <slangasek> because I have
[05:01] <StevenK> Fair enough
[05:05] <lifeless> persia: you make Monday sound like a disease
[05:06] <persia> lifeless, Well, it's at least sclerotic for the archive.
[05:06] <persia> And many people seem to be more like zombies.
[05:07] <persia> My mother once quoted me a statistic "15% of heart attacks happen on Monday mornings at 9:00".  I have no information about the sample size, but I've always found it interesting.
[05:07] <NCommander> persia, as a firefighter, I won't be suprised if thats int he right ball park
[05:08] <persia> NCommander, Do most fires happen on Mondays as well?
[05:09] <NCommander> persia, its usually nights
[05:09] <NCommander> Fridays actually
[05:09] <NCommander> People get out of work and just want to burn things down
[05:09] <NCommander> 173 in the queue
[05:11] <ScottK> Oddly enough on the way home from shopping tonight three fire trucks passed us in the opposite direction with lights on in a hurry to get somewhere.
[05:11] <ScottK> My 5 year old asked me "How can there be a fire, it's night time?"
[05:11] <ScottK> I told her fires can happen any time of day and she said, "Oh".
[05:12] <ScottK> I think she totally got it, but it'd just never ocurred to her before.
[05:13] <StevenK> Haha
[05:13] <StevenK> That's very cute
[05:18]  * NCommander has to clean out his car
[05:18] <NCommander> Man, I'm been putting that off all week :-/
[05:18] <StevenK> NCommander: But it's like midnight?
[05:18] <pangloss> 1:18 on east coast
[05:19] <NCommander> StevenK, 1:18
[05:19] <NCommander> Three days until Intrepid releases
[05:19] <NCommander> Amazing
[05:19] <pangloss> Just finished a seminar on protection networks for fully meshed networks when two nodes fail for my graduate class
[05:20] <pangloss> time for bed...
[05:20] <NCommander> night pangloss
[05:20] <pangloss> nigh NCommander =)
[06:19] <StevenK> Hm. New u-r-e
[06:20] <persia> Yep.  Fixes the default java plugin.
[06:55] <didrocks> morning o/
[07:14] <dholbach> good morning
[07:14] <slytherin> is launchpad not sending 'Fix Released' mail notifications?
[07:14] <slytherin> dholbach: good morning :-)
[07:14] <dholbach> hi slytherin
[07:16] <persia> slytherin, It should be.  Complain in #launchpad if you didn't get one after 10-15 minutes.
[07:17] <dholbach> slytherin: could it be the package is still sitting in the queue?
[07:18] <persia> dholbach, Nope.  queue is clean.
[07:24] <YokoZar> dholbach: poke
[07:24] <dholbach> hi YokoZar
[07:25] <YokoZar> dholbach: I'd like to ask about the 5-a-day team mass purge you did a while back.  I'm thinking of doing a similar thing for Wine (the Wine Team has about 60 members, but pretty much only I use the PPA).  I haven't found a use for the team in the year+ it's existed, so it seems like shortening it is a good idea
[07:26] <dholbach> *nod*
[07:26] <YokoZar> Anyway how did you manage to send a mass email?  Or did you just shoot everyone individually as you removed em?
[07:26] <dholbach> the latter
[07:26] <dholbach> I tried using the Launchpad API but was not successful
[07:27] <dholbach> I copied and pasted text for the comment though
[07:27] <YokoZar> Ahh ok
[07:28] <slytherin> dholbach: the bug is marked fix released
[07:29] <dholbach> slytherin: ah ok
[07:42] <\sh> guys, is it still time to fix some packages? bug #289448 e.g.?
[07:43] <persia> \sh, Was that not included in the wine upload a few hours ago?
[07:44] <persia> There's a package in the queue, but you'll need all sorts of extreme permission to upload.
[07:45] <\sh> persia: well, libcusys2 is still in ia32-libs, but not libcups2 which somehow delivers the libcups.so.2
[07:45] <\sh> libcupsys2 even
[07:46] <\sh> ah forget about it
[07:46] <persia> I thought I some some traffic about libcupsys2 being dropped.
[07:46] <\sh> pitti just uploaded ubuntu18 of ia32lib
[07:46] <persia> No, it's probably worth asking about.
[07:47] <\sh> it should be resolved now
[07:47] <persia> So it is fixed in the uploads that happened last night?
[07:47] <\sh> yes
[07:47] <persia> OK.  You had me worried.  I saw ia32libs and wine go in last night, and you chasing a bug now made me think everyone was a bit too tired.
[07:48] <\sh> persia: I'm trying to catch up with mails...so I didn't see any mail saying "this bug's closed"...because it's not closed ,-)
[07:48] <\sh> doing so now manually
[07:59] <ZehRique> slangasek: Hello, Steeve. Could you talk with me about translations or tell me who deals with them?
[08:26] <slangasek> ZehRique: you probably want to talk with the localization team for the language in question; ubuntu-l10n-ptbr perhaps?
[08:27] <ZehRique> slangasek: No, Steeve. I'm member of the l10n-ptbr team. But I found an error on just one important string on the "gnome-menus" package. Would it be possible to correct it?
[08:29] <slangasek> ZehRique: a "misspelling" error, or an "insults the user's family and makes them hate us" error?  Only the latter could warrant a rebuild of language packs now for release
[08:31] <slangasek> ZehRique: updates to lang packs after the release may be possible; for that you should talk to pitti or ArneGoetje in #ubuntu-devel
[08:33] <ZehRique> slangasek: Well, the case is consistency of the translation between several distros, not only Ubuntu. I did the upstream of the GNOME packages in pt_BR, but some translator changed the string and I noticed just now. :(
[08:34] <slangasek> ZehRique: that's unfortunate, but not something that we can afford to stop the release process to fix
[08:35] <slangasek> ZehRique: what was the wrong string, OOI?
[08:35] <ZehRique> slangasek: OK. I understand. I'll try to talk with piti or ArneGoetje later to know if we can change. ;)
[08:37] <ZehRique> slangasek: The change was made on the main menu. The correct string should be "Multimídia" and it was packaged as "Som & Vídeo".
[08:37] <slangasek> ZehRique: that doesn't sound incorrect to me.  "Sound and Video" is the correct category name in English...
[08:39] <ZehRique> slangasek: yes, but we the LDP-BR discussion list stated that the string should be "Multimídia" on GNOME, KDE and XFCE.
[08:41] <ZehRique> slangasek: the major distros are translated this way, only Ubuntu remains on "Som & Vídeo". But... if it's not so important for now, we can wait for the next release of Intrepid. ;)
[08:42] <slangasek> ZehRique: you're aware that the use of "Sound and Video" is a deliberate change from the previous "Multimedia", in English?
[08:45] <ZehRique> slangasek: No. The team changed it and roll it back again?
[08:45] <ZehRique> excuse me for the bad english.
[08:45] <slangasek> ZehRique: in the past, "Multimedia" was used in GNOME for English.  The present use of "Sound & Video" is a deliberate change.
[08:47] <ZehRique> slangasek: wow... and they changed again.
[08:48] <ZehRique> slangasek: I won't take more of your time. Thanks for your patience with me. :)
[08:49] <slangasek> no problem
[08:50] <ZehRique> Who knows talking with the two person you tell me we can change it again. ;) Once more, thanks a lot!
[11:15] <slytherin> NCommander: I didn't get chance to check your kernel builds yesterday. And I am unlikely to get chance till Friday. Will report back after that.
[12:59] <marmuta> Hi, I just finished working through the SRU guidelines on bug #272204. I'm wondering if someone could have a quick look to see if I got it roughly right?
[13:05] <marmuta> anyone?
[13:31] <marcin_ant> what is a preferred way to deploy source code in source package? can I put tar files and use tarball.mk (cdbs) or should I untar source files and deploy them in uncompressed?
[13:32] <ScottK-laptop> You can do tarball in tarball, but I've never seen it cause anything but pain.
[13:37] <joaopinto> marcin_ant, why do you need a source tarball inside of a source package ?
[13:43] <slayton> are there anyplans to backport the Intrepid gstreamer packages to hardy?
[13:43] <directhex> would it cause ABI breakage?
[13:43] <directhex> i suspect the risk of regression is high, unless there are compelling reasons
[13:45] <marcin_ant> joaopinto: well, not sure - maybe because original tarballs are pretty weird - they are tgz, tar.gz, zip - sometimes they have subfolders with code sometimes code is just in / - tarball.mk can handle this in easy way
[13:45] <NCommander> doko, I was curious if I can help with the toolchain by running the regression test on all ports architectures
[13:45] <marcin_ant> joaopinto: this is why I ask here
[13:45] <doko> NCommander: which regression tests?
[13:46] <NCommander> glibc (expect on HPPA), GCC, G++, ObjC, etc.
[13:46] <joaopinto> marcin_ant, you are not expected to move tarballs into the source unless there is a VERY strong reason for that
[13:46] <doko> they are run with every upload, just check the build logs and the summaries in the packages
[13:46]  * NCommander helped keep GCC going on m68k
[13:46] <joaopinto> the orig.tar.gz should match the upstream tarball
[13:46] <NCommander> doko, ah, anything I can do to help toolchain folks on port architecutres, or is all covered?
[13:48] <doko> NCommander: well, rebuild the archive with gcc-snapshot, and report problems upstream, this could help the community ports
[13:48] <NCommander> doko, I'll have to find a few more port boxes, my PowerPC will take until the next LTS to build the archive, but we can probably get it done
[13:51] <doko> NCommander: and then it's the bug extraction and upstream reporting, which can get a bit time consuming
[13:51] <NCommander> Isolate the ICE
[13:51] <NCommander> My favorite game
[14:57] <bddebian> Heya gang
[15:05] <sistpoty|work> hi bddebian
[15:07] <bddebian> Heya sistpoty|work
[15:11] <jdong> urgh bluetooth input devices are a *PAIN*
[15:12] <directhex> jdong, yes
[15:12] <jdong> superm1: you say you have a functional apple keyboard without hidd?
[15:12] <jdong> of all the freaking irony the stuff I expected to struggle with worked out of the box
[15:12] <directhex> jdong, of course, i've never used a bluetooth input device that didn't involve cheap hax, e.g. mobile phone based mouse input, or ps3 bluetooth remote w/ driver written in python
[15:13] <jdong> and the stuff I never expected to give me trouble ARE giving me trouble.
[15:13] <jdong> I mean... this broadcom WLAN card is making an 802.11n connection right now, out of the box, pulling 50+mbit
[15:13] <jdong> but god forbid me try to type on a wireless keyboard!
[15:13]  * jdong breathes deeply
[15:14] <jdong> all this effort to install Ubuntu on an iMac just so I can play doom3....
[15:14] <directhex> jdong, you know you can play doom3 on macos, yes? :p
[15:16] <jdong> directhex: if by play you mean watch a slideshow of what the game would be like.... yes.
[15:16] <jdong> directhex: and that brings me to irony #2: Booting an ATI powered system to Linux for better gaming performance.
[15:16] <jdong> hell is going to freeze over any second now.
[15:17] <directhex> O_o
[15:17]  * directhex bought a 24" imac for the office, purely because smaller models lacked nvidia
[15:17] <jdong> directhex: I only bought the PC version of the game; I tried the Mac demo and 640x480xlow lags.
[15:18] <jdong> directhex: and I primarily bought this iMac to run OS X and CoreVideo/Quartz2D benches are nearly twice as fast on ATI hardware than nvidia
[15:18] <jdong> maybe that'll change now that nvidia seems to be Apple's preferred GPU chipset
[15:18] <directhex> for the time being.
[15:18] <directhex> maybe they'll fix their 2d performance in linux one day too
[15:18] <jdong> :)
[15:19] <superm1> jdong, yes sir
[15:19] <jdong> superm1: how do you get it to pair without hidd?
[15:19] <superm1> jdong, here's the bigggg catch to these apple keyboards
[15:19] <superm1> jdong, they remember the last couple of pairings
[15:19] <jdong> WHAT?
[15:19] <directhex> maybe superm1 could punch whoever at dell is making my new latitude take months to ship, while he's at it. that'd be good.
[15:20] <superm1> jdong, if you have any previously paired devices in the vicinity, they will hook onto them while you are trying to pair to the new device
[15:20] <jdong> superm1: well hmm I only have the iMac there that I've paired it with.
[15:20] <jdong> superm1: I just get pairing failed from bluetooth-wizard
[15:20] <jdong> superm1: hidd --connect has no problem though
[15:21] <superm1> jdong, here's what happened to me: i've had one of mine paired at work and home.  i didn't realize i left it in my work bag, when i was at work i suddenly got '2's all over the document.  didn't know what was going on, until i realized the keyboard was in the bag.  i got home and was watching a tv show on my mythbox.  the "i" key kept getting pressed, exact same thing.  I tried to pair it with a testing laptop both at home and work, and it d
[15:21] <superm1> oesn't want to pair while anything else it's been with is near by
[15:22] <superm1> hidd --connect appears to work i'd empirically guess because it's more forceful and swift about the process
[15:22] <jdong> superm1: maybe I'll give a few shots with a cold-boot and only putting in the batteries after GNOME starts
[15:22] <jdong> superm1: I have a feeling perhaps the HID proxy that the EFI initializes might be bothering the keyboard too
[15:23] <superm1> jdong, you're gonna hate this too then; it appears that pairings stick after you pull batteries out..
[15:24] <superm1> but that's a good experiment likely as long as the hid proxy gets stopped when bluetooth gets initialized
[15:24] <superm1> jdong, you are referring to the newer "aluminum" BT keyboard right?
[15:24] <jdong> superm1: correct
[15:25] <jdong> superm1: the silver plastic one ;-)
[15:25] <superm1> jdong, well the one "marketed" as an aluminum one.  but yeah, i've got two of them, and really have to struggle to make them pair, but they eventually do it
[15:25] <jdong> superm1: I'll give more effort when I get some spare time
[15:25] <jdong> superm1: good to know that you can get them to pair with enough effort
[15:26] <jdong> for now I'll just kick it with hidd in rc.local
[15:26] <jdong> I want to get away from that ugly hack ASAP :)
[15:26] <superm1> jdong, it's quite possible there is a bug in the wizard though where there needs to be special handling for this
[15:26] <superm1> jdong, so if you really want to (and trust me you do), you can analyze the differences of what really happens with hidd --connect and the wizard
[15:26] <jdong> superm1: I notice there's a hardcoded 0000 passkey for older apple keyboards
[15:26] <jdong> the MAC addies shown there don't match those of the new keyboard/mice
[15:26] <superm1> jdong, yeah but the newer ones can accept user inputted passkeys
[15:26] <jdong> I have no idea if that's relevant
[15:27] <jdong> am I supposed to be prompted for a passphrase?
[15:27] <superm1> well newer keyboards at least
[15:27] <superm1> yup
[15:27] <jdong> well that's not happening either :D
[15:27] <superm1> i've also had to hit the exact sequence of when it's put in discovery mode and clicking next in the wizard, which makes me think timing bug and why hidd --connect and its swiftness plays into it
[15:29] <jdong> superm1: there's no editing of any sort I have to do for authorization?
[15:29] <jdong> this should just be trying a lot at the wizard?
[15:29] <superm1> jdong, yup, i've done this off of a fresh install of a build a few days before RC
[15:30] <superm1> jdong, the bluez patches post RC only help some dell hardware that I know struggles with BT
[15:31] <jdong> superm1: ok so this should just be hold the power button until it blinks, then try to connect from the UI right?
[15:32] <superm1> jdong, that's how it's "supposed to work" :)
[15:37] <cambridgecow> what is the command to apply a diff.gz to a tar.gz to generate the debian/ directory
[15:37] <asomething> dpkg-source -x *.dsc
[15:38] <cambridgecow> ty
[15:38] <asomething> * = the files name there, not part of the command
[15:51] <jdong> superm1: grumble no luck yet :-/
[15:51] <jdong> superm1: I do see it immediately trying to connect to the BT adaptor though
[15:51] <jdong> which confirms what you said
[15:52] <jdong> it obviously looks for the last thing it was paired with
[15:52] <superm1> given there is a past pairing with the exact same device, i think you are going to have a difficult time
[15:52] <superm1> something you might consider trying is turning on discoverable mode on the PC.  it might just give you a popup asking for a key when it tries to connect
[16:18] <jdong> superm1: heh no luck, I'll just continue using hidd for now
[16:18] <jdong> at least that kinda works
[16:18] <superm1> jdong, that's too bad.
[16:18]  * NCommander tackles jdong 
[16:18] <superm1> jdong, i'm hoping to never have to pair mine again, that's for sure
[16:19] <jdong> superm1: hidd oddly creates a normal connection that stays
[16:19] <jdong> superm1: when I have hcitool cc try it, or bluez tries it, the keyboard hangs up
[16:19] <superm1> i swear if i ever have to reinstall, i'm backing up /var/lib/bluetooth
[16:19] <jdong> I saw that in hcidump
[16:19] <jdong> I need to analyze it a bit more when I have the time
[16:19] <jdong> they're obviously doing something different
[16:19] <ScottK> superm1: I recommend backing it up before you find you have to reinstall.
[16:19] <jdong> I wonder if there's a way to transplant linkkeys :)
[16:19] <superm1> ScottK, good point :)
[16:26] <cambridgecow> I need to get the gstreamer debs from intrepid, but I want to continue running hardy, what is the best way of doing this?
[16:26] <cambridgecow> is this even possible?
[16:27] <ScottK> !backports | cambridgecow
[16:28] <cambridgecow> ScottK, so if they are not in backports then I pretty much am out of luck?
[16:29] <NCommander> ScottK, did we ever backport gstreamer?
[16:30] <ScottK> cambridgecow: At best it'd be risky.  You can ask for a backport if there isn't one.
[16:30] <ScottK> NCommander: No idea.
[16:30] <cambridgecow> ScottK, do I ask here for the backport?
[16:30] <ScottK> cambridgecow: Read the link I sent you.  It explains it.
[16:30] <cambridgecow> k
[16:30] <NCommander> ScottK, I know I won't want to attempt a gstreamer backport. the rdepends are ugly
[16:37] <directhex> i did some gstreamer backports for dapper once
[16:37] <directhex> seemed to function okay
[16:37] <cambridgecow> ok I filed the backport request... thanks (btw its not for all of gstreamer just gstreamer-plugins-ugly, but I'm guessing all of gstreamer might be required on the backport)
[16:54] <NCommander> Is the wiki acting up for anyone else beside me?
[16:54] <james_w> yup
[16:54] <asomething> NCommander: I've had some pages hanging
[16:55]  * NCommander went to try and note that AuFS for IA64 needs porting and can't :-/
[17:47]  * sistpoty|work heads home... cya
[18:27] <Laney> What's the best thing to do for Intrepid release? Still rcbugs?
[18:27] <geser> Laney: perhaps testing the upgrade would be good
[18:27] <ScottK> Laney: ISO testing or look into SRUs for Intrepid.
[18:27] <ScottK> Upgrade testing is good too.
[18:28] <Laney> righto
[18:29] <Laney> Ooh, full sound in vbox. How novel
[18:30] <geser> a candidate for a SRU (perhaps even security) would be mediawiki (fixing an XSS bug)
[18:31] <superm1> Laney, by default?  I thought you have to turn on pulseaudio in your VM actively to get it
[18:31] <ScottK> geser: intrepid-proposed is a valid upload target right now.
[18:31] <Laney> superm1: Maybe I enabled it before. I just know that it didn't work and now it does.
[18:31] <superm1> Laney, ah.  i've had it working for the last month, but i know i had to go out of my way to turn it on
[18:32] <superm1> so did one of my mac friends who i convinced to try it
[18:32] <Laney> I haven't booted this Hardy VM in a while it seems - 236 updates
[18:44] <Laney> geser: I've just looked at mediawiki. Can we sync for -security?
[18:46] <ScottK> Laney: No.
[18:46] <ScottK> Make a debdiff.
[18:47] <Laney> ScottK: Well can it be a debdiff which is just between intrepid and lenny-security? Or must it be for ubuntu?
[18:47] <Laney> I guess I'm asking if we can just take security fixes from Debian
[18:47] <ScottK> Take the intrepid package and just add the fix for the security issue.
[18:47] <Laney> (obviously testing them)
[18:47] <ScottK> It needs a proper revision number.
[18:48] <Laney> alright
[18:50] <geser> Laney: take the patch from 1.12.0-2lenny1
[18:51] <geser> apply it to the intrepid package and version is correctly
[18:51] <Laney> geser: Yes, I will. I was wondering if we could just copy that package, but I get it now
[18:51] <geser> in the end it will be same package as in lenny but with a different version number
[18:51] <Laney> correct
[19:13] <maco> what is the criteria for removing a package from universe?
[19:13] <directhex> maco, total removal from the archive?
[19:13] <maco> yeah
[19:14] <maco> directhex: i'm thinking of emerald. it's really unstable and isn't supported upstream anymore.  their response is to just stop using it and switch to gtk-window-decorator when using compiz
[19:14] <geser> maco: a good reason and not breaking other packages
[19:14] <ScottK> Well we removed it once and it got brought back by popular demand.
[19:14] <maco> oh
[19:14]  * ScottK reads wiki.ubuntu.com/Teams and discovers MOTU is part of QA.
[19:15] <ScottK> That was a while ago though.
[19:15] <maco> before compiz became able to make metacity themes act transparent-like with g-w-d?
[19:16] <ScottK> Dunno.  I use KDE, so I've never used either.
[19:16] <maco> emerald themes look nice...but combine nvidia and emerald and my intel graphics will often out-pace them...the entire gui slows down awfully.
[19:18] <NCommander> maco, are you sure you have acceleration enabled? There should be no slowdown if you do have it proeprly enabled
[19:19] <maco> NCommander: it wasnt my computer. it was on my friend's laptop. if he used g-w-d, it was fine. if he switched to emerald it was really slow. and he was using the nvidia drivers
[19:19] <directhex> NCommander, nvidia's 2d performance is broken, it causes major trouble for some things
[19:19] <maco> when we asked in #compiz-fusion, they said to stop using emerald
[19:20] <NCommander> directhex, strange, I don't have that problem w/ my nvidida card w/ the blobs
[19:20] <maco> its not on all models
[19:20] <directhex> NCommander, depends on which APIs are being tickled. talk to the kde4 folk, and you'll notice the burning torches & pitchforks
[19:20] <NCommander> directhex, yes well, they got burned by the bluetooth
[19:21] <laga> s/burned/bitten/
[19:21] <NCommander> pun == weak
[19:21] <laga> ACK
[19:21] <NCommander> directhex, anyway, do you still have interest in your mono packages on PPC and other port archs?
[19:22] <directhex> NCommander, generally speaking, sure. but i don't know how much time i have to devote on it, as i move my efforts less onto my backports & more onto the actual pkg-mono team
[19:22] <NCommander> directhex, we lost you to the dark side
[19:23] <directhex> NCommander, debian's the dark side now?
[19:24] <NCommander> no, mono vs backports
[19:24] <directhex> NCommander, working with pkg-mono means better ubuntu releases
[19:24] <directhex> NCommander, and working more closely wih upstream means it too. i've already had upstream remove the need for +dfsg on 2 packages
[19:26] <NCommander> yay
[19:30] <directhex> NCommander, my plan is for ubuntu's mono stack to be all syncs. i should achieve that goal with jaunty, although only as long as the core devs actually ask before slapping an ubuntu increment on a package
[19:30]  * NCommander nods
[19:32] <directhex> generally speaking, i see debian work as the best way to improve ubuntu
[19:33] <NCommander> directhex, just remember that lenny is close to release, so a lot of maintainers are trying to avoid needing to use testing-proposed-updated
[19:34] <directhex> NCommander, which is why sid lies stagnant for us. but we're aiming to go postal on experimental
[19:34]  * NCommander notes that jaunty is going to hurt because of said sid stagnation
[19:35] <directhex> NCommander, yes. 0ubuntu1 everywhere. oy.
[19:36] <NCommander> maybe we should flock down on their RC bugs and fix them
[19:36] <directhex> well, MOTUs are twiddling thumbs now, largely, so yes
[19:37]  * NCommander offers to help NMU any lenny RC bugs
[19:39] <DktrKranz> directhex, time for processing SRUs, no time to twiddling thumbs ;)
[19:39] <directhex> http://bts.turmzimmer.net/
[19:40]  * DktrKranz promises he will be quicker than NCommander's GNAT bugs
[19:40] <jdong> superm1: ok 6 hours later, I think you're crazy. *goes back go hidd for good* :D
[19:58] <superm1> jdong, i can confirm i'm crazy, no fix for that though.  irregardless, it *does* work with careful button pressing
[19:59] <blueyed> ScottK: ping. What to do about virtbualbox-ose?
[20:00] <blueyed> ScottK: the diff should have been only native/non-native, plus DP description for the latest patch.
[20:10] <NCommander> DktrKranz, ouch
[20:10] <NCommander> DktrKranz, actually, I'm doing a lesson on cruft removal and transitions and all that jazz for OpenWeek
[20:11] <DktrKranz> NCommander, nice... gnat is a good example :)
[20:12] <NCommander> DktrKranz, I'm actually going to go with something a little simpler
[20:12]  * NCommander is going to be having a hands on activity
[20:13]  * RainCT just got a stupid idea and is wondering if a short "REVU Q&A" session could be useful :P
[20:15] <NCommander> RainCT, that was my first idea
[20:15] <NCommander> RainCT, go for it!
[20:15] <RainCT> Heh. Can I just add it somewhere on the wiki or do I have to poke someone?
[20:17] <RainCT> ok I see
[20:19] <NCommander> RainCT, just poke jcastro
[20:19]  * RainCT was writing "/me pokes jcastro" right now :)
[20:21] <jcastro> RainCT: what topic do you want to cover?
[20:23] <RainCT> jcastro: "REVU Q&A" (could be 30 min or something.. preferably on friday as it's better for me and this way it would also be after the packaging sessions)
[20:25] <jcastro> RainCT: sounds great, take a slot! (And don't forget the description at the bottom)
[20:26] <bobbo> jcastro: Would an "Introduction to BZR" fit in with the type of sessions you want to run for OpenWeek?
[20:27] <RainCT> bobbo: there's actually already one
[20:27] <bobbo> RainCT: someone stole my session! :P
[20:27] <jcastro> bobbo: a more advanced session after the intro one wouldn't be bad either
[20:28] <bobbo> jcastro: could work, IIRC emma janes session only touches the basics
[20:29] <ScottK> blueyed: When I debdiffed it there was more than that.
[20:29] <bobbo> jcastro: I'll get back to you in a bit?
[20:29] <jcastro> bobbo: yeah, usually those are best for openweek, advanced stuff can go into developer week, but I think there is plenty of room for an advanced session
[20:29] <jcastro> bobbo: sure!
[20:30] <blueyed> ScottK: the .cvsignore files probably?! it seems like they go ignored in the native package, but not in the orig.tar.gz..
[20:30] <blueyed> ScottK: anyway.. I'll have to go for some hours now..
[20:31] <ScottK> blueyed: As a practical matter I think it's fine as it is.
[20:35] <RainCT> jcastro: done :)
[20:35] <jcastro> RainCT: thank you!
[20:38] <bobbo> jcastro: still here?
[20:40] <jcastro> bobbo: yep
[20:40] <bobbo> jcastro: I talked to emmajane and she agreed it would be cool to go into bzr with a bit more depth after her talk (sehs only touching the *very* basics). Is that cool with you?
[20:41] <jcastro> bobbo: that sounds excellent!
[20:42] <bobbo> jcastro: can I just grab the last slot on the Monday?
[20:42] <Laney> geser: Can you take a look at bug #290015? I've not had a security update uploaded before.
[20:42] <jcastro> bobbo: yep!
[20:43] <bobbo> jcastro: cool, thanks alot :)
[20:43] <jcastro> bobbo: you won't need to twist my arm to slide in more bzr topics. :D
[20:44] <ajmitch> sounds like jcastro is a fan
[20:44] <bobbo> jcastro: hehe, I'm sure I could fill a whole week with bzr geekery ;)
[20:44] <jcastro> ajmitch: I'm a fan of anything I can use without learning 34057834 commands. :D
[20:45]  * ajmitch does have to learn how to use some of the newer stuff like looms
[20:46] <ScottK> I'd say any dvcs that has a whole weeks worth of geekery is excessively complex.
[20:48] <laga> git is better
[20:48]  * laga puts on his asbestos suit
[20:49] <ScottK> Dunno, but when I spend time learning Git it's useful for some $WORK projects.
[20:49] <jdong> :)
[20:50] <jdong> I can't decide for this $work project
[20:50] <jdong> so I'm using both at the same time
[20:50] <jdong> trying to decide which I like better
[20:50] <ScottK> My problem is I'm never the decider on such things, so it is what it is.
[20:53] <stefanlsd> mm. git for me was too complex. bzr is nicer, but slower i find.
[20:54] <laga> git can do awesome things. things which require some fiddling with bzr
[20:54]  * ScottK definitely agrees on slower.
[20:55] <laga> i blame some of that slowness on launchpad. of course, i have no numbers to back that up.
[20:55] <laga> local file system sure feels faster ;
[20:55] <laga> ;)
[21:03] <YokoZar> jcastro: give any thought to my Wine session?
[21:04] <jcastro> YokoZar: If you're available, then by all means
[22:27] <pochu> DktrKranz: you are the 5th uploader in intrepid! http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/utu/utu_intrepid.php
[22:27]  * pochu is 46th
[22:28] <DktrKranz> pochu, UTU is based on a script made by me... I gambled ;)
[22:30] <pochu> haha
[22:30]  * nhandler is 12th
[22:30] <Laney> if ($nick == DktrKranz) $uploads *= 10;
[22:31] <pochu> DktrKranz: could you rank me higher then? :-)
[22:32] <DktrKranz> Laney, say *= 20
[22:32] <DktrKranz> pochu, how many €uros are you going to invest?
[22:32] <pochu> Laney: that would mean he uploaded 36.1 packages :P
[22:33] <pochu> DktrKranz: I can do some SRUs ;)
[22:33] <Laney> One was reaaaaally small
[22:33] <pochu> DktrKranz: or if I do more SRUs you will rank me lower instead? :P
[22:34] <DktrKranz> pochu, SRUs counts *= 50
[22:34] <pochu> yohoo :)
[22:34]  * pochu has a few of those
[22:35] <DktrKranz> but only if you upload them 49 times
[22:53] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Wouldn't it be handy when you had to look into an SRU/security issue to have a script in ubuntu-dev-tools that would grab and unpack the source packages for all supported releases in which the package exists?
[22:55] <DktrKranz> ScottK, can be easily worked-around using pull-lp-source, it would require just some more lines
[22:55] <ScottK> Yeah.  It seemed like something would be easily extensible for that.
[22:55] <DktrKranz> maybe pull-lp-source <pkg> all
[22:56] <ScottK> Yeah.
[22:58] <ScottK> Making it know about backports would be nice too.
[22:59] <DktrKranz> it's python, so no problems making the adjustment
[23:01] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Odd.  I've not used that one before.  For spamassassin it got the release pocket in Dapper and Backports in Gutsy.
[23:02] <DktrKranz> I think it gets the higher version
[23:02] <DktrKranz> no matter where it's published
[23:02] <ScottK> Then why not in dapper?
[23:02] <ScottK> It's got a package in backports too.
[23:02] <DktrKranz> ah, right
[23:03] <NCommander> DktrKranz, did you verify the smc problem in Hardy?
[23:03] <DktrKranz> NCommander, which one?
[23:03] <NCommander> DktrKranz, you removed the verification-needed tag from 288990
[23:04] <DktrKranz> ah, this is because it was not on qa.ubuntuwire.com/sru radar
[23:04] <NCommander> ?
[23:04] <DktrKranz> it went in "need verification" bugs, while it's location is still in "waiting for approval"
[23:05] <NCommander> "waiting for approval"?
[23:05] <DktrKranz> "Needing Action"
[23:09] <DktrKranz> ScottK, got it
[23:10] <DktrKranz> it gets .dsc files from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/dapper/+source/spamassassin
[23:10] <NCommander> DktrKranz, could you upload my fix to proposed then?
[23:10] <ScottK-laptop> DktrKranz: Would you please look at Bug 289915 and Bug 278075 for SRU (note it's in main for Intrepid, so that one's not your problem)?
[23:10] <DktrKranz> dapper publishes -updates one, gutsy shows -backports one
[23:12] <DktrKranz> ScottK, as you said, it's for main, so it's not motu-sru business for intrepid (but it is for previous releases)
[23:12] <ScottK> You're good with SRU then?
[23:14] <DktrKranz> NCommander, my vmware decided to take a break (kernel panic \o/) so I can not test it on hardy, unless I can fire up a pbuilder
[23:14] <NCommander> DktrKranz, vmware won't do, you need OpenGL enabled hardware
[23:14] <DktrKranz> gah
[23:14] <NCommander> (I'm just asking for an upload to proposed so someone can test it without having to compile it)
[23:15] <NCommander> I'm seeing if I can reproduce on my laptop now in a chroot, but its not looking promising
[23:15] <DktrKranz> I can run it on a livecd on real hardware
[23:15] <DktrKranz> but I need to download CD
[23:17] <DktrKranz> ScottK, have you got patches/debdiffs handy for spamassassins?
[23:18] <NCommander> my problem is SDL tries to use X11
[23:19] <ScottK> DktrKranz: I'm working on them now.
[23:26] <DktrKranz> I'm off for now, I already started to process some SRUs, I'll do many in the next days (my hope we won't get flooded as for Hardy)
[23:28] <DktrKranz> good night all