Flannel | wow, an entry without a hello sinners. | 00:02 |
---|---|---|
Flannel | whaaa? | 00:38 |
Flannel | !gtfo | 00:38 |
ubottu | Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly. | 00:38 |
Flannel | !noob | 00:38 |
ubottu | Acronyms or statements like noob, jfgi, stfu, or rtfm are not welcome in this channel. Period. | 00:38 |
Flannel | odd. | 00:38 |
Flannel | orifice: Howdy. | 00:56 |
LjL | orifice, how about you change your quit message, it isn't entirely nice | 00:57 |
Flannel | LjL: believe he's idle | 00:58 |
Flannel | ubottu: tell cooldude|away about away | 01:00 |
orifice | well ok, I'll do that ... | 01:07 |
LjL | thanks | 01:07 |
Flannel | orifice: You can rejoin #ubuntu | 01:10 |
LjL | what's going to happen to #kubuntu-kde4 now | 01:34 |
Flannel | Not sure. | 01:35 |
Flannel | orifice: Please don't idle here. | 01:35 |
nalioth | PARTY! | 01:35 |
Flannel | You can either do 4 and 3 support in the same channel, or make a -kde3 channel for older versions | 01:36 |
nalioth | kde3 support will be waning | 01:36 |
Flannel | Only another year of KDE3 support, yeah. | 01:36 |
nalioth | and that will be only for the folks who've not upgraded | 01:37 |
LjL | which is why i'll probably be switching to something else anyway | 01:37 |
Flannel | nalioth: Yeah, but we have plenty of people in #ubuntu who have older versions, they won't go away | 01:37 |
nalioth | Flannel: understood, but eventyally, they _will_ go away | 01:37 |
mneptok | *sigh* | 02:08 |
mneptok | children. | 02:09 |
mneptok | if wsa should come complaining, i refer you to: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/63089/ | 02:12 |
mneptok | off for TV | 02:12 |
orifice | sorry. | 02:40 |
Flannel | ubottu: tell oly562 about coc | 05:48 |
Flannel | Anyone awake? | 06:34 |
Tm_T | hm? | 06:34 |
Flannel | Just asking for a second opinion, but you're not in #u, so don't worry about it. | 06:35 |
Tm_T | aww | 06:35 |
Flannel | He... already took the liberty of removing the doubt | 06:35 |
Tm_T | hehe | 06:36 |
bazhang_ | without question. Toyota Corolla? | 06:36 |
Flannel | Heh | 06:36 |
Flannel | That's what got him kicked the first time. | 06:36 |
Flannel | Ah, and of course, he's a talker. | 06:37 |
bazhang_ | he is in PM? | 06:37 |
Flannel | Aye | 06:37 |
bazhang_ | oof | 06:37 |
Flannel | Nothing terribly witty though, unfortunately. | 06:38 |
bazhang_ | clearly not. | 06:38 |
Flannel | great, ban evasion. | 06:45 |
mneptok | Flannel: if you're going to be active for a while, just ban 119.11.15.* and be done with it ;) | 06:54 |
mneptok | (then remove when you go idle) | 06:54 |
Flannel | mneptok: Nah, second one wasn't from there. Or at least, that I could see. | 06:54 |
Flannel | i=plural@creep.bur.st] | 06:55 |
mneptok | EF_Codd was who i was talking about | 06:55 |
Flannel | mneptok: right, same guy. | 06:55 |
Flannel | came back as that host | 06:55 |
mneptok | so ban both >:) | 06:56 |
Flannel | I did. | 06:56 |
mneptok | well, not the wildcard raw IP | 06:57 |
mneptok | *shrug* | 06:57 |
mneptok | juss sayin'. he's your ... project. :/ | 06:57 |
Flannel | if he came back, I'm sure it'd be with an entirely different host, etc. | 06:57 |
Flannel | mneptok: olys been giving mild annoyances all day. | 07:02 |
mneptok | yeah, i /lastlog'ed before admonishing | 07:03 |
mneptok | !staff ylsid | 07:07 |
ubottu | Sorry, I don't know anything about staff ylsid | 07:07 |
mneptok | gah | 07:07 |
mneptok | !staff | 07:07 |
ubottu | Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian or PriceChild, I could use a bit of your time :) | 07:07 |
mneptok | ylsid just spammed #u, and is connected to a bunch of other distro channels | 07:08 |
mneptok | okee, bedtime | 07:08 |
mneptok | noitay | 07:08 |
ubottu | In ubottu, sayedmohu said: nobody is bothered to answer me | 07:22 |
sayedmohu | can somebody help me out | 07:28 |
Flannel | sayedmohu: support happens in #ubuntu, this channel is for disciplinary and administrative things. | 07:34 |
sayedmohu | so where should i go to get some help | 07:36 |
Flannel | sayedmohu: #ubuntu | 07:36 |
sayedmohu | i'm already there.... but i'm not getting any satisfactory response | 07:36 |
Flannel | sayedmohu: You weren't helping anyone to help you. | 07:40 |
sayedmohu | i'm a dummy in ubuntu... so how can i help | 07:40 |
Flannel | sayedmohu: When people ask you questions about your problem, answer them. | 07:41 |
sayedmohu | didn't u see that i answered??? | 07:41 |
Flannel | sayedmohu: Then they ask for more information, and you don't answer. No one can fix a problem if they don't know what the problem is. | 07:43 |
sayedmohu | i answered | 07:43 |
Flannel | blargh. s/Sunday/Trollday/ | 08:11 |
jussi01 | Flannel: is it not monday? | 08:13 |
Flannel | jussi01: It's 1am, but I haven't gone to sleep yet, so it's still Sunday. Also, it's the end of the day, and has been this way for an unfortunately large amount of time today. | 08:13 |
* jussi01 hugs Flannel | 08:14 | |
Flannel | I imagine it has to do with the upcoming release. | 08:14 |
jussi01 | likely | 08:14 |
Flannel | oh, and if oly562 steps out of line, ban him. I've given him many warnings, and had a nice discussion with him. I imagine he'll wait at least an hour before trying something else though. But he's really been given too many chances as it is. | 08:15 |
Flannel | hmmm, jussi01, ubottu seems to be lagging | 08:33 |
jussi01 | !test | 08:33 |
ubottu | sigh... again? I'm busy here, I already told you it failed. | 08:33 |
Flannel | oh wait | 08:33 |
jussi01 | hehe | 08:33 |
Flannel | nope, just a repeat factoid | 08:33 |
Flannel | Whos awake with -ot ops? | 09:11 |
Flannel | jussi01? | 09:11 |
jussi01 | nope | 09:12 |
jussi01 | I dont have ot ops | 09:12 |
Flannel | bother. | 09:12 |
ikonia | Flannel: -ot lack of ops guys is something I may post about ont he mail list | 09:26 |
ikonia | been caught out quite a few times | 09:26 |
ikonia | cwillu: what's up ? | 09:26 |
cwillu | was about to gripe about the kick-troll in #ubuntu-offtopic. More because he managed to bait a dozen folks, which defeated my ignore filter :p | 09:28 |
ikonia | cwillu: looks like Flannel is sorting it | 09:28 |
cwillu | over and done with, yes, thanks :) | 09:29 |
* cwillu wonders if he's supposed to leave the channel now :p | 09:29 | |
ikonia | the elk was awake | 09:29 |
ikonia | cwillu: type "/topic" | 09:29 |
elkbuntu | is it back? | 09:29 |
cwillu | ah, missed that | 09:29 |
ikonia | no no | 09:29 |
ubottu | UbuntuHelper called the ops in #kubuntu () | 09:29 |
elkbuntu | oh dear | 09:29 |
ikonia | elkbuntu: I didn't se you deal with it just flannel hunting for someone | 09:29 |
elkbuntu | you lied | 09:29 |
ikonia | oh great | 09:30 |
ikonia | jussi01: you'r up;) | 09:30 |
ikonia | jussi01: remove him, he's trying it in ##linux | 09:30 |
ikonia | he's doing it in every channel | 09:30 |
Flannel | ikonia: I only got rid of him in #u when he brought that particular incident there. He's been grating on my in #u for at least four hours, slowly. | 09:30 |
elkbuntu | !staff ^ | 09:30 |
ubottu | Sorry, I don't know anything about staff ^ | 09:30 |
* elkbuntu scowls at ubottu | 09:30 | |
* jussi01 scowls at elkbuntu - learn to use her! :P | 09:31 | |
ikonia | I know that IP | 09:31 |
ikonia | @btlogin | 09:32 |
Flannel | ikonia: I didn't see anything earlier | 09:33 |
ikonia | Hmmmm | 09:33 |
ikonia | same subnet was in my personal logs for some reason | 09:33 |
ikonia | maybe a typo on my part | 09:33 |
elkbuntu | riiighto. someone please hold me back in #freenode. | 09:34 |
Flannel | elkbuntu: what happened? | 09:34 |
elkbuntu | i'm being told to /ignore a troll and leave it for the ops of ubuntu channels to deal with | 09:34 |
Flannel | nice. | 09:34 |
jussi01 | elkbuntu: mrhgh | 09:34 |
elkbuntu | by a moron unaffiliated | 09:35 |
jussi01 | yay for christel :) | 09:36 |
elkbuntu | christel, note the scrollback, and i'll grep his stupidity from -offtopic | 09:37 |
christel | thank you | 09:37 |
elkbuntu | he actually left when asked, but is being a serial pest everywhere | 09:38 |
Flannel | elkbuntu: he timed out when asked, doubt it was intentional | 09:39 |
elkbuntu | Flannel, it's not the first time he's done this | 09:39 |
Flannel | elkbuntu: I'm sure. | 09:39 |
christel | has he also used a different nick? or is ubuntuhelper the only one? | 09:40 |
ikonia | when he signs in it's ubuntu as he appears to be on a live cd | 09:40 |
elkbuntu | christel, see http://pastebin.ca/1237663 -- it's without context, but i'm not sure it's needed. can provide if you want. | 09:40 |
Flannel | ikonia: its actually U first, then he switches to Ubuntu, then UbuntuHelper | 09:41 |
elkbuntu | christel, he's only half-registered too | 09:41 |
ikonia | Flannel: so not a livecd then by the looks of it | 09:41 |
elkbuntu | -NickServ- UbuntuHelper has NOT COMPLETED registration verification | 09:41 |
elkbuntu | ikonia, what did he do in ##linux? | 09:42 |
ikonia | just started trying !ops | 09:42 |
ikonia | until the ##linux ops stepped in | 09:42 |
ikonia | no reason | 09:42 |
Flannel | ikonia: I'd say no. He was originally (earlier tonight) on as admin__ | 09:42 |
jussi01 | he is back: | 09:42 |
jussi01 | [11:39:06] <-- UbuntuHelper (n=admin@c220-237-186-71.frank1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has quit (Remote closed the connection) | 09:42 |
jussi01 | [11:40:11] --> U (n=admin@c220-237-186-71.frank1.vic.optusnet.com.au) has joined #kubuntu | 09:42 |
jussi01 | [11:40:38] <-> U is now known as Guest84368 | 09:42 |
elkbuntu | ikonia, you'd probably have plenty of optus subnets in your logs. they're a major phone/isp company here. | 09:42 |
ikonia | then started to ask people how he could help, | 09:42 |
ikonia | elkbuntu: this one was only a range up | 09:42 |
elkbuntu | ikonia, when you're bored, /who *optusnet.com.au and cry. | 09:43 |
ikonia | ha ha | 09:43 |
jussi01 | elkbuntu: christel do you need the bit from #k just now? | 09:44 |
christel | nah its ok, in there now | 09:45 |
christel | he's been in ##linux previously, though, at the time he was helpful | 09:45 |
ikonia | looks like he's been in ubuntu too as admin__ | 09:46 |
jussi01 | ok, i spuriously called the ops in #kubuntu, when he didnt get anyone answering | 09:46 |
jussi01 | s/i/he | 09:46 |
ikonia | as Flannel suggested | 09:46 |
christel | which means goodchristels attempted mental explanation of them being just overentusiastic and new to irc wont work ;) | 09:46 |
Myrtti | hello |_ocke | 09:46 |
elkbuntu | christel, sounds like someone who has imbibed a little more than they should have, to be honest | 09:47 |
christel | yeah | 09:47 |
elkbuntu | either way, pestilence is not really a welcomed thing in busy channels | 09:47 |
* Myrtti coughs | 09:48 | |
christel | yeah, im just trying to work out whether its worth attempting to speak with them or not | 09:48 |
christel | (im only 2 sips into my morning coffee, so i hope for their sake that its not!) | 09:48 |
ikonia | keep the faith | 09:48 |
elkbuntu | christel, give them the night off, if they come back idiotic, talk then | 09:49 |
elkbuntu | the -offtopic behaviour makes me think talk will do little | 09:50 |
bazhang_ | !idle | |_ocke chalcedony | 09:55 |
ubottu | |_ocke chalcedony: Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries. | 09:55 |
ikonia | bazhang_: chalcedony been idle for days | 09:56 |
bazhang_ | ikonia, ah I see; any reason he is here? | 09:56 |
ikonia | I don't know him, Myrtti was asking about him yesterday | 09:57 |
bazhang_ | k | 09:57 |
Myrtti | is |_ocke muted? | 09:57 |
ikonia | he's active in #ubuntu | 09:57 |
Myrtti | I'm not that fluent with chanserv.py yet | 09:57 |
Myrtti | no, here | 09:57 |
ikonia | nothing in bt | 09:59 |
Myrtti | he is muted | 10:00 |
Myrtti | with his ip | 10:00 |
ikonia | Myrtti: I don't see him getting muted in here in my log | 10:02 |
|_ocke | thanks | 10:02 |
Myrtti | ikonia: /bans | 10:02 |
ikonia | it's an old ban | 10:02 |
|_ocke | i got banned like a month and a half ago | 10:02 |
|_ocke | i was drunk and talking about some stupid chick | 10:02 |
Myrtti | s/some stupid chick/center of your universe/ | 10:03 |
|_ocke | nonono s/center of my universe/center of my best friend's universe and someone i dont care about in the slightest anymore | 10:05 |
|_ocke | its complicated and very weird, and very much over heh | 10:05 |
Myrtti | si, if we let you back in #ubuntu-offtopic, will you be ranting about how the "chick" dumped you for your best friend? | 10:06 |
|_ocke | no | 10:07 |
|_ocke | i dont talk about her anymore :P | 10:07 |
|_ocke | i did buy her lunch yesterday i guess.. but other than that, she can piss off | 10:07 |
|_ocke | besides, shes going to rehab next week | 10:08 |
|_ocke | cause shes a stupid little girl with no self control heh | 10:08 |
ikonia | |_ocke: easy on the language please. | 10:08 |
ikonia | |_ocke: show you can use self control | 10:09 |
Myrtti | intresting | 10:09 |
|_ocke | er, i mean she can ... nevermind just anyways no worries about that | 10:09 |
Myrtti | I miss irssi and my aliases | 10:10 |
|_ocke | i never could get the hang of irssi | 10:11 |
|_ocke | which is why i run xchat2 | 10:11 |
|_ocke | i do miss some of the functionality of mIRC, but i would never run a native win app in my linux | 10:11 |
|_ocke | i refuse to taint my standard set of apps | 10:11 |
|_ocke | i'll play some random win games with WINE but never something i use regularly | 10:12 |
|_ocke | hence, i use transmission instead of utorrent | 10:12 |
bazhang_ | !idle | 10:12 |
ubottu | Please keep in mind that this channel is for operator/abuse questions only, and we ask you to part when you have no further business here, in order to keep track of users with pending inquiries. | 10:12 |
|_ocke | even though i know utorrent is better :P | 10:14 |
bazhang_ | |_ocke, please dont idle here | 10:14 |
|_ocke | i'll leave as soon as someone lets me back in #ubuntu-offtopic.. | 10:15 |
=== myrtti_ is now known as Myrtti | ||
bazhang_ | |_ocke, that is not the way it works | 10:15 |
|_ocke | bazhang_, but i was supposed to be banned for a month, i didn't come back till now, and its been at least a month an a half maybe 2 or 3 i dunno, i just put it out of my m ind for awhile | 10:17 |
|_ocke | why can't i get unbanned? | 10:17 |
bazhang_ | |_ocke, that is independent of idling here | 10:17 |
|_ocke | i didn't protest or try to fight it, i waited till long after.. i just want to get back in the channel | 10:17 |
* Myrtti coughs | 10:17 | |
Myrtti | the way I see this is. | 10:17 |
|_ocke | i really am part of the ubuntu community, i run it exclusively, i've converted at least a dozen people from win to ubuntu who still use it (a couple hundred more that i dont know the current status of) and I really love ubuntu, i just want to be part of it | 10:18 |
|_ocke | i just dont see why i should still be banned when its long after the ban was supposed to be removed and the reason for the ban doesn't even exist anymore | 10:19 |
Myrtti | I *might* let you in the channel, but there seems to be a problem with your compulsiveness | 10:20 |
|_ocke | also, i've helped at least 3-4 people in #ubuntu resolve their problems and had them tell me in /msg that what I told them fixed what they were having problems with | 10:20 |
Myrtti | *if* I let you back in, you have to realise you're still on probation | 10:20 |
|_ocke | yes i realize that | 10:20 |
|_ocke | i won't say anything really stupid or talk about anything that doesn't involve myself personally or computers/linux | 10:21 |
bazhang_ | |_ocke, you have also been offtopic in #ubuntu of late | 10:21 |
Myrtti | goddamnit I spilt coffee on my bed | 10:22 |
|_ocke | bazhang_, honestly i would've been talking in #ubuntu-offtopic but i was banned :P | 10:22 |
bazhang_ | |_ocke, that is not an acceptable reason to be offtopic in #ubuntu | 10:22 |
|_ocke | bazhang_, it was just responding to other people though you gotta admit that | 10:22 |
|_ocke | i dont want to be offtopic in #ubuntu | 10:23 |
bazhang_ | then dont | 10:23 |
|_ocke | i want to be offtopic in #ubuntu-offtopic | 10:23 |
bazhang_ | |_ocke, you were not responding; you started out by being offtopic | 10:23 |
|_ocke | if you guys unban me i promise i wont say anything irresponsible in offtopic and i wont say anything that isn't just asking an ubuntu-related question or helping with an ubuntu quesion someone else has in #ubuntu | 10:24 |
|_ocke | if i do anything contrary, i submit to being permanently banned | 10:24 |
|_ocke | and if i get to a point where i'm so intoxicated that i can't control myself at any point ever i'll disconnect this entire network for the remainder of the night | 10:25 |
|_ocke | not saying thats a probability, just saying if it happens | 10:25 |
bazhang_ | not very re-assuring | 10:25 |
|_ocke | i'm just trying to cover all bases | 10:31 |
|_ocke | i have a lot of other stuff to do if i'm out partying, i just wanted to say that if i end up at home afterwards i wont bring it here | 10:31 |
|_ocke | it'd be messed up to lie and say i don't get loaded sometimes | 10:32 |
Myrtti | ok... | 10:33 |
Myrtti | so | 10:33 |
|_ocke | but when i'm on irc, i'm on irc, and its not gonna be for anything except computer related stuff, and just to chat, but i am in at least 15 other chans t the same time for that | 10:33 |
|_ocke | #ubuntu* is for ubuntu related stufff and i'll use it for that only | 10:33 |
|_ocke | well, except #ubuntu-offtopic, but thats still even somewhat tied to ubuntu | 10:33 |
elkbuntu | |_ocke, i advise you to not ramble away this opportunity to re-enter the channel. it | 10:33 |
Myrtti | I've lifted the ban from -offtopic. It'll go back in a heartbeat if I hear anyone complaining. | 10:34 |
Tm_T | Myrtti: <3 | 10:34 |
|_ocke | Myrtti, thank you | 10:34 |
Myrtti | and I'm already hearing complaints on this channel, which isn't reassuring | 10:34 |
Myrtti | so, behave | 10:34 |
|_ocke | i will | 10:34 |
=== |_ocke is now known as locke | ||
Myrtti | hmmm | 10:36 |
Myrtti | I've bought a book so old it doesn't have ISBN | 10:36 |
Myrtti | locke: anything else? | 10:36 |
locke | Myrtti, whaa? whered you get that? | 10:36 |
locke | what book is it? | 10:36 |
locke | Myrtti, other than that, no not really | 10:36 |
locke | i thought all books had isbn since like the 1700s or something | 10:37 |
Gary | Myrtti: is it hand printed? | 10:37 |
Myrtti | see you in -offtopic then | 10:37 |
Tm_T | Myrtti: you will keep a phone hearby today? | 10:38 |
Tm_T | nearby even | 10:38 |
Myrtti | Tm_T: sure | 10:38 |
Tm_T | roger, I might call you or something, depends on stuff & co | 10:39 |
Myrtti | ok | 10:39 |
Tm_T | but now another place, see you later dear sister | 10:39 |
Myrtti | oh, my phone is face down | 10:39 |
Myrtti | good, no one has called | 10:39 |
Myrtti | locke: *cough* | 10:39 |
Myrtti | locke: if you don't have anything else... | 10:40 |
locke | er | 10:40 |
locke | yeah | 10:40 |
locke | sorry i forgot | 10:40 |
locke | later | 10:40 |
Myrtti | tata | 10:40 |
elkbuntu | he's um, still not quite off the red cordial yet. | 10:58 |
denny | hullo | 11:09 |
bazhang_ | hi :) | 11:09 |
denny | can I get confirmation from a GC that glade88 can have an ubuntu cloak? | 11:09 |
denny | says it got stomped on by his donator cloak, I'm about to combine them if I get the confirmation | 11:09 |
elkbuntu | sec | 11:10 |
elkbuntu | denny, can he provide us with his launchpad login? | 11:11 |
elkbuntu | i mean, the launchpad username | 11:11 |
denny | <glade88> sayakb | 11:14 |
Mez | ut-oh - AM report ;) | 11:14 |
elkbuntu | denny, seems to be eligible. | 11:15 |
denny | thanks | 11:15 |
* denny wavicles and gets back to work | 11:16 | |
bazhang_ | heads up on r0ach; been removed once for bad language/offtopic | 11:33 |
ubottu | FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) | 12:17 |
ubottu | FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) | 12:17 |
jussi01 | hrm... in #u: [14:17:32] <Arbe> DCC SEND startkeylogger 0 0 0 | 12:18 |
Myrtti | tsk | 12:18 |
elkbuntu | jussi01, um, not wise to repeat those lines | 12:19 |
jussi01 | elkbuntu: oops. | 12:19 |
ubottu | In #ubuntu+1, danbh_intrepid said: !ooo3 is <reply> Information about OpenOffice 3.0 on Intrepid can be found here https://launchpad.net/bugs/267376 | 12:47 |
jussi01 | !scope > danbh_intrepid | 12:57 |
jussi01 | @btlogin | 12:58 |
* Myrtti lols at Linus | 13:06 | |
ikonia | ? | 13:08 |
Myrtti | ikonia: http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2008/10/candyland.html | 13:16 |
jussi01 | hahaha | 13:24 |
jussi01 | hello genii | 13:24 |
* Myrtti drools at thinking of licorice ice cream | 13:29 | |
Myrtti | mmmmmmmmmmMMMHHHHRRR | 13:29 |
ikonia | ughh | 13:29 |
Myrtti | nom | 13:29 |
Myrtti | nomnom | 13:29 |
ikonia | scott__ and sam_ appear to be the same person | 13:30 |
ikonia | in #ubuntu | 13:30 |
ikonia | or 2 people in different locations connect from the same DSL line ??? | 13:30 |
=== genii-2 is now known as genii | ||
genii | Hi jussi01 | 13:38 |
ubottu | In ubottu, ziroday said: !xmms is xmms is no longer being developed, see http://bugs.debian.org/461309 for more details. Consider using audacious, bmpx, or xmms2 instead. | 13:45 |
ikonia | can someone with -ot ops ban forward eagles0513875 to ##fix-your-connection pelase | 14:11 |
LjL | sure thing | 14:11 |
ikonia | ta | 14:11 |
ikonia | slick | 14:12 |
ikonia | gratzie mille | 14:12 |
LjL | no T :) | 14:12 |
ikonia | ah | 14:12 |
LjL | an italian Z sounds like "ts" all by itself | 14:12 |
ikonia | cool | 14:13 |
ikonia | I should go back to learning Italian | 14:13 |
LjL | actually i always found that pretty interesting | 14:13 |
ikonia | or mastering english first | 14:13 |
LjL | in the sense that, as far as i could see, most italians don't in the least realize that the Z is really two phonemes | 14:13 |
LjL | myself, i've played a lot with the AmigaOS speech synthesizer when i was a child, and attempted to make it speak italian | 14:13 |
LjL | it took me months to realize that "ts" was the thing to make it say for the "z" letter | 14:14 |
Myrtti | you geeky thing you | 14:25 |
jussi01 | Myrtti: I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself :P | 14:31 |
LjL | heh | 14:33 |
LjL | !lt is <reply> Šiame kanale bendraujama anglų kalba. Jei ieškote pagalbos lietuvių kalba, prisijunkite prie #ubuntu-lt kanalo. | 14:38 |
ubottu | I'll remember that, LjL | 14:38 |
LjL | !lithuanian is <alias> lt | 14:38 |
ikonia | LjL: I wonder how microsoft's speech system would work with that as it is supposed to cover languages | 14:41 |
LjL | ikonia: Microsoft's speech uses sampled speech fragments from actual humans, it needs a database for every language it supports | 14:42 |
LjL | same as with Festival | 14:43 |
ikonia | LjL so does that mean there is an Italias database for it that would say tz = z | 14:46 |
ikonia | Italian even | 14:46 |
LjL | ikonia: not quite. there are two databases for each language. one is the actual speech fragments database, which basically has a soundfile for each sound (not really, it's got one for every group of three phones, but anyway) | 14:47 |
LjL | ikonia: then there is a set of rules that tries (and, in italian, generally succeeds, since there's a strong correspondence between writing system and actual phonemes) to translate written sentences into a list of those sounds | 14:48 |
LjL | ikonia: so, most likely, the italian database would already include a recorded soundfile for our "z" sound, not separate "t" and "s" sounds (since they're never used separately anyway) | 14:49 |
LjL | ikonia: when using a synth that generates sounds purely artificially (like AmigaOS's), then you'd still have two layers even there. the sound layer has a collection of phones and their corresponding speech generation parameters (these synths have parameters for mouth aperture, tongue position, etc) | 14:52 |
LjL | the other database would be the very same writing-system-to-phones translation one | 14:52 |
ikonia | I see what your saying | 14:53 |
ikonia | I didn't know it worked like that | 14:53 |
LjL | ikonia: you can't just use the same sounds database for all languages. a "t" in english really doesn't sound like a "t" in italian in most situations (it's aspirate in english, and the tongue is further back than in italian) | 14:53 |
LjL | ikonia: if you used an english phones database together with an italian writing-to-phones translation database (basically what i did on AmigaOS), you'd end up with a voice that speaks Italian with a very strong English accent, and vice-versa | 14:54 |
ikonia | no of courrse not, I can see how that needs to be seperated | 14:54 |
ikonia | I can hear that in my head | 14:54 |
LjL | though you'd also have the problem of some phonemes simply not existing | 14:54 |
LjL | there is no "th" or "h" sound in italian, and there is no "gn" or "gl" sound in english | 14:55 |
ikonia | there is no th | 14:55 |
ikonia | how odd | 14:55 |
LjL | ikonia: most not-very-english-savvy italians would pronounce "th" as "s", "z", "f" or "v" | 14:56 |
ikonia | LjL can you give me a "word" example of that | 14:56 |
LjL | ikonia: "zey are", "vey are", or "everyfing", "everysing" | 14:56 |
ikonia | ok | 14:56 |
ikonia | few of them make sense when I hear a few italian friend speaking english | 14:57 |
LjL | ikonia: unless you're an italian with a lisp, in which case ;) | 14:57 |
ikonia | all bets are off | 14:57 |
Myrtti | I guess that relates to how most Finns have difficulties pronouncing olympics | 14:58 |
Myrtti | well, in Finnish | 14:58 |
LjL | ikonia: although in italy (which lisp is present) the most common speech defect by far is not rolling R | 14:58 |
LjL | although there are many ways different people with that defect will render their R | 14:58 |
jussi01 | Myrtti: I love the finnish "system" :P | 14:58 |
LjL | Myrtti: why so? | 14:58 |
ikonia | how odd (to me) that not rolling an R is a defect | 14:58 |
Myrtti | LjL: it's against the finnish phonemes to have o, a or u in the same word with ö, ä or y | 14:59 |
LjL | ikonia: there is a somewhat similar though less common defect in english... "i am woger wabbit" | 15:00 |
Myrtti | so Olympialaiset is often mangled into Olumpialaiset | 15:00 |
LjL | Myrtti: ah right, i read something like that on wp | 15:00 |
LjL | Myrtti: yes, that brings me to another point -- | 15:00 |
LjL | which is that generally speaking, an italian *can* pronounce "th" or "h" if they're explained | 15:00 |
LjL | but they'll have difficulty actually placing those sounds in a sentence consistently | 15:01 |
ikonia | LjL I know the W defect | 15:01 |
LjL | i'm giving english lessons to a girl for instance now | 15:01 |
LjL | she can pronounce "h" fine, if alone | 15:01 |
LjL | but she'll either say "i ave" or "hi have", not "i have" | 15:01 |
LjL | i've given up on the "th" entirely | 15:02 |
genii | "I ave" you could get by with as Cockney or so ;) | 15:02 |
LjL | genii: yeah most of the typical italian oddities when pronouncing english are found in a dialect or another. it's the mixture of them that makes you have an unmistakably italian accent. | 15:03 |
genii | Interesting | 15:03 |
LjL | that girl also does the "it'sa got" thing, that really gives me the chills. itsa me mario, meh. | 15:03 |
LjL | mind, my own english pronounciation is quite terrible, but. | 15:05 |
genii | LjL: My cousin was born deaf, he learnt to speak through a system which Alexander Graham Bell invented of diagramming the mouth/tongue/throat positions as they related to specific sounds | 15:06 |
genii | LjL: He is quite understandable now | 15:06 |
LjL | genii: not much different from what generation-based speech synthesizer do. there are a couple interesting ones even packaged in ubuntu, i think (interesting in the sense that they also come with GUI tools that actually show you the tongue etc. positions that they are simulating) | 15:07 |
ikonia | LjL: I was about to ask about your accent | 15:08 |
ikonia | you type and your gramma is excellent, I was curious to how your wording was | 15:08 |
ikonia | genii: that sounds unusual and quite an interesting topic to research | 15:08 |
LjL | ikonia: well, you can check that out. -ot people already did, and found it hilarious. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vowel | 15:08 |
LjL | just go to wherever the "spoken version of this article" tag is | 15:09 |
LjL | or Consonant, too | 15:09 |
LjL | actually even that venerable AmigaOS synth could output mouth parameters, although i think it only gave mouth aperture (so you could draw a mouth that would move with the speech), not other parameters | 15:09 |
ikonia | LjL is the spoken version you / | 15:10 |
ikonia | ? | 15:10 |
LjL | yeah | 15:10 |
ikonia | oh, excellent, I'll grab it now | 15:10 |
LjL | ikonia: and mind, which it's bad enough, i never could have actually recorded it like that. it's a collection of several pieces of sentences, some repeated *several* times until they came out decent | 15:10 |
genii | ikonia: It's a system called Visible Speech which Bell and his father worked on | 15:10 |
LjL | i've also made the Spanish version, http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal | 15:11 |
LjL | that really sounds much better than the english version | 15:11 |
LjL | even though i've never studied any spanish | 15:11 |
ikonia | genii researching | 15:11 |
ikonia | LjL: just looking for headphones as I'm sure the office doesn't want to hear you | 15:11 |
LjL | that's for sure | 15:11 |
Myrtti | awww | 15:12 |
Myrtti | sounds so... young! | 15:13 |
Myrtti | *sigh* | 15:53 |
Myrtti | my patience is again running short on hynix/ASUS-tek | 15:57 |
ikonia | I thought he was banned | 15:58 |
Myrtti | that would be too good | 15:59 |
ikonia | I thought he got banned ages ago | 16:00 |
Myrtti | he was banned for a while | 16:00 |
Myrtti | was given a preach about derogative use of the word chicks | 16:01 |
Myrtti | *sigh* | 16:01 |
Myrtti | also about his nickchanging | 16:01 |
Myrtti | no | 16:01 |
Myrtti | I will not get myself angry again | 16:01 |
* genii hands Myrtti a soothing tea | 16:02 | |
ikonia | I see no value in allowing people like him to contibute, as it's clear they just want a rise, nothign more, so why persist with the posturing of "allowing them to change" | 16:02 |
Myrtti | the problem is that stupidity isn't strictly forbidden in the rules | 16:03 |
ikonia | it's not stupidity | 16:03 |
ikonia | it's causing offense and not being able to particiapte in a channel with other people | 16:03 |
ikonia | anyone know the indonisian loco channe l? | 16:07 |
LjjjL | ikonia: #ubuntu-id | 16:08 |
ikonia | thank you | 16:08 |
LjjjL | not that there is anyone in there | 16:09 |
ikonia | great | 16:09 |
LjjjL | ikonia: look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamList for other places to contact them | 16:10 |
ikonia | I couldn't see it on the list, and ubottu wasn't offering me the right trigger | 16:11 |
Myrtti | !id | 16:12 |
ubottu | join ke #ubuntu-id untuk membahas ubuntu dalam bahasa Indonesia | 16:12 |
ikonia | ahhh id | 16:12 |
Myrtti | what did you try? | 16:12 |
LjjjL | !indonesian is <alias> id | 16:12 |
ubottu | In #ubuntu-ops, LjjjL said: !indonesian is <alias> id | 16:12 |
Myrtti | @login | 16:12 |
ubottu | The operation succeeded. | 16:12 |
ikonia | in (india) | 16:12 |
LjjjL | @login | 16:12 |
ubottu | Error: Your hostmask doesn't match or your password is wrong. | 16:12 |
LjjjL | !indonesian is <alias> id | 16:12 |
LjjjL | oh die | 16:12 |
Myrtti | !indonesian is <alias> id | 16:12 |
ubottu | But indonesian already means something else! | 16:12 |
Myrtti | !indonesian | 16:13 |
ubottu | join ke #ubuntu-id untuk membahas ubuntu dalam bahasa Indonesia | 16:13 |
LjjjL | !-indonesian | 16:13 |
ubottu | indonesian is <alias> id - added by Pici on 2007-11-05 00:30:38 | 16:13 |
Myrtti | right | 16:13 |
ikonia | oh, there we go | 16:13 |
Myrtti | !indonesian | 16:13 |
ikonia | should have tried it as a full word | 16:13 |
Myrtti | doh | 16:13 |
ikonia | @bansearch 88.222.157.24 | 16:36 |
ubottu | No matches found for 88.222.157.24!*@* in any channel | 16:36 |
ikonia | @bansearch webas | 16:36 |
ubottu | No matches found for webas!n=peace@88.222.157.24 in any channel | 16:36 |
genii | ikonia: I think he just has ADD or so | 16:38 |
ikonia | maybe.... I see he's in #kubuntu to | 16:38 |
ikonia | 16:44 -!- Odo [n=odo@unaffiliated/odo] has quit ["Odo is tired... He goes to revert to his natural, gelatinous state to regenerate."] | 16:45 |
ikonia | genius | 16:45 |
mneptok | ikonia: let's just hope he's not referring to the spermatozoa "natural state" | 17:10 |
ikonia | ha ha ha ha | 17:10 |
ikonia | spermatozoa | 17:10 |
ikonia | 17:27 -!- Blue-Omega [n=null@about/cooking/nakedchef/omelette/Blue-Omega] | 17:28 |
ikonia | ther has been some cool cloaks/part messages today | 17:28 |
ikonia | there | 17:28 |
ubot3 | In #ubuntu-cn, Darksair said: ubot3: whose bot is this? | 17:28 |
ikonia | ubot3: tell darksair ubuntu's | 17:29 |
ubot3 | ikonia: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) | 17:29 |
ikonia | damn | 17:29 |
Myrtti | it would give the wrong answer | 17:29 |
Myrtti | the correct in this case is nal | 17:29 |
ikonia | ? | 17:29 |
ikonia | well it's hosted by "nal" I didn't realise it was actually his box | 17:30 |
ikonia | I thought you could use "tell" to tell anything | 17:30 |
nalioth | Myrtti: it's an ubuntu community bot | 17:30 |
ikonia | didn't realise you had to give it a a factoid bot | 17:30 |
nalioth | ikonia: no, just factoids | 17:30 |
ikonia | nalioth: yes, that was my view on it | 17:30 |
ikonia | nalioth: there goes the fun :( | 17:30 |
nalioth | now "i" can have it say anything :P | 17:31 |
nalioth | but i don't. | 17:31 |
ikonia | and the fun comes back | 17:31 |
Myrtti | nomnomnom Salmiakki ♥ | 18:12 |
jussi01 | bleh | 18:16 |
Myrtti | jussi01: your bitlbee is still awol | 18:19 |
jussi01 | err whut?? | 18:19 |
Myrtti | absent without leave | 18:19 |
jussi01 | I know... | 18:20 |
* Myrtti rolls her eyes | 18:20 | |
Myrtti | meh, now I ate all my salmiakki | 18:40 |
PriceChild | Myrtti: ate? | 18:47 |
jussi01 | PriceChild: you do know what salmiakki is...? | 18:48 |
jussi01 | PriceChild: not salmiakki koskenkorva... :D | 18:48 |
Myrtti | salmiakkikossu is prepared from salmiakki and kossu | 18:48 |
Myrtti | salmiakki == ammonium chloride | 18:49 |
Myrtti | (and more or less licorice too)' | 18:49 |
jussi01 | PriceChild: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/88/234041244_7815c027df.jpg?v=0 | 18:49 |
Myrtti | nyomnyom | 18:49 |
LjL | some fool must have crashed into a level crossing | 18:59 |
LjL | or at least that's the only interpretation i can give to "*due to a car accident* at blah blah trains are delayed blah blah" | 19:00 |
LjL | at least mine wasn't | 19:00 |
Myrtti | *bwurp* | 19:15 |
nalioth | anybody get any weird spam within the past couple minutes? | 19:16 |
Myrtti | dumdidumdi | 19:30 |
ubottu | erUSUL called the ops in #ubuntu (tomecekd) | 19:40 |
Flare183 | I think we might have a problem we the bots | 20:12 |
PriceChild | !test | 20:16 |
ubottu | sigh... again? I'm busy here, I already told you it failed. | 20:16 |
nalioth | PriceChild: don't worry about it, if he didnt hang around to enlighten us | 20:17 |
PriceChild | indeed, meh | 20:19 |
mneptok | ubottu: is your Jawa inhibitor securely fastened? | 20:31 |
ubottu | Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) | 20:31 |
mneptok | i see that it is. eeeeeeeexcellent. | 20:31 |
jussi01 | mneptok: !!! | 20:31 |
jussi01 | be nice!! | 20:31 |
mneptok | jussi01!!!!!!OMG!!!!!WOOHAA!!! | 20:31 |
* jussi01 huggles ubottu | 20:32 | |
mneptok | !unf | 20:33 |
ubottu | Sorry, I don't know anything about unf | 20:33 |
Myrtti | SAND PEOPLE! | 20:34 |
mneptok | ubottu: unf is <action>shakes it | 20:34 |
ubottu | In #ubuntu-ops, mneptok said: ubottu: unf is <action>shakes it | 20:34 |
Myrtti | *sigh* | 20:35 |
mneptok | errr ... i logged in, you moron. | 20:35 |
mneptok | damned faulty inhibitors. | 20:35 |
Myrtti | !scope | mneptok | 20:35 |
ubottu | mneptok: We don't need factoids for *everything* ;) | 20:35 |
mneptok | someone added a factoid about not adding factoids. oh the irony. | 20:36 |
ubottu | Flare183 called the ops in #ubuntu (joe_) | 20:40 |
* Myrtti pinches mneptoks cheek | 20:40 | |
mneptok | upper or lower? | 20:41 |
* Myrtti slaps | 20:45 | |
Myrtti | I'll start using Gentoo if you tease me like that. | 20:46 |
Myrtti | or FreeBSD. | 20:46 |
jussi01 | I just banned mattfury in #ubuntu, for a nazi reference | 20:46 |
jussi01 | someone might want to look at scrollback and tell me if I was too harsh | 20:46 |
PriceChild | i think he went in #freenode earlier | 20:47 |
PriceChild | he did indeedy, rape jokes | 20:47 |
PriceChild | i say 'jokes'... | 20:47 |
Myrtti | rape jokes? | 20:47 |
jussi01 | right... | 20:47 |
Myrtti | where's my electric cattle herder? | 20:47 |
Myrtti | *prod* | 20:47 |
jussi01 | ok, so It sounds like the right thing was done then... | 20:47 |
Myrtti | **ZZZZZZZZTTT* | 20:48 |
jussi01 | ouch!! careful with that!! | 20:48 |
jussi01 | :P | 20:48 |
mneptok | the only thing funny about rape is that whole "if you don't laugh at the human condition, and you have a conscience, you'll blow your brains out within 2 minutes on this planet" approach thingy. | 21:06 |
mneptok | *sigh* what's *wrong* with people?! | 21:07 |
mneptok | (laugh, Kurt, laugh. take the gun out of your mouth.) | 21:07 |
mneptok | someone tell me it's all gonna be OK in the end | 21:08 |
* jussi01 huggles mneptok | 21:17 | |
* Myrtti gives mneptok a hug mug of tea | 21:17 | |
Seeker` | hug mug? | 21:20 |
Myrtti | huge | 21:20 |
Myrtti | sorry, my laptop has these "creative pauses" | 21:20 |
jussi01 | hehe | 21:20 |
mneptok | thanks. sometimes humanity *really* disappoints. | 21:26 |
ikonia | @btlogin | 21:31 |
ubottu | In #ubuntu-offtopic, aubade said: !trolls is <reply> "Confound these wretched rodents! For every one I fling away, a dozen more vex me!" | 21:35 |
ikonia | evening gents | 21:57 |
ikonia | and ladies | 21:57 |
LjL | is there network desynch? | 22:30 |
Pici | Is there? | 22:30 |
LjL | i don't know, the bots went all crazy earlier, and #ubuntu sort of looks wrong | 22:30 |
Pici | I just got here recently. | 22:31 |
LjL | messages being sent at distances that would require a world record typist | 22:31 |
Pici | Turns out, ssh and irssi don't work when the laptop is out of batteries | 22:31 |
Seeker` | eugh, my scroll + caps lock keys keep flashing whenever I try to get to X | 22:32 |
Seeker` | tried upgrading to intrepid, problem started, wont even boot off the intrepid install CD | 22:32 |
mneptok | Seeker`: tried xfix? | 22:39 |
ubottu | LjL called the ops in #ubuntu (some help here) | 22:39 |
tomaw | klined | 22:40 |
tomaw | LjL^ | 22:40 |
Pici | ty | 22:40 |
Seeker` | mneptok: X just about starts, then everything freezes | 22:40 |
tomaw | There are some still trying to connect | 22:40 |
tomaw | look for bas? nicks | 22:40 |
mneptok | actually, RI has the same behavior. but all have "_-{Ruben}-_ clonner v1.0 | 22:41 |
mneptok | as realname | 22:41 |
LjL | they'll hit -unregged | 22:41 |
mneptok | !staff | 22:41 |
ubottu | Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian or PriceChild, I could use a bit of your time :) | 22:41 |
mneptok | see above inputline, bitte | 22:41 |
* tomaw waves at mneptok | 22:41 | |
mneptok | heya tomaw | 22:42 |
LjL | well spotted mneptok | 22:42 |
LjL | although you didn't spot tomaw | 22:42 |
mneptok | LjL: familiar trolls get a pass ;) | 22:42 |
tomaw | looks to be done with it now anyway | 22:42 |
mneptok | *smewch* | 22:42 |
tomaw | hah | 22:42 |
Seeker` | mneptok: any ideas? | 22:47 |
mneptok | Seeker`: did you try the "xfix" option from recovery mode? | 22:48 |
Seeker` | xfix? | 22:50 |
Seeker` | I get "command not found" | 22:51 |
mneptok | Seeker`: boot to recovery mode | 22:51 |
mneptok | Seeker`: you will then be presented with a menu of options. one of them is "xfix." run that, see wha'ppen. | 22:51 |
Seeker` | mneptok: I dont get a menu of options | 22:54 |
Seeker` | I just get a root command prompt | 22:54 |
LjL | you should get a menu with 8.04, but then maybe it doesn't happen on upgrades | 22:54 |
LjL | i've never personally seen that menu yet (never been in recovery mode in the past months either) | 22:55 |
Seeker` | its definately a kernel panic on starting X | 22:55 |
Seeker` | from the HDD or CD | 22:55 |
LjL | why does wiivile2's nickname, combined with his comcast host, remind me of someone? | 23:13 |
LjL | ah no it reminds me of wii, but the comcast host is unrelated really. | 23:14 |
LjL | now about to ban evade | 23:14 |
LjL | rejoined from rr.com | 23:14 |
LjL | [00:16:11] --> wiivile2 has joined this channel (n=john@adsl-70-130-174-252.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net). | 23:16 |
LjL | this fellow has got plenty of hosts | 23:16 |
LjL | (that was ##unavailable) | 23:16 |
LjL | [00:19:58] <LjL> eliviiw: i can read your stupid nickname backwards, and upside down. | 23:20 |
LjL | [00:19:58] <-- tobias has left this server (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). | 23:20 |
LjL | [00:20:01] <MothOnLovesFlame> hspaans meet me in i2p then | 23:20 |
LjL | [00:20:05] *** LjL sets mode: +b *!*@adsl-70-130-174-252.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net | 23:20 |
LjL | i | 23:20 |
jussi01 | LjL: bestbot is funny - see -bots now... :D | 23:22 |
LjL | i know :> | 23:22 |
LjL | !staff | 23:22 |
ubottu | Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel, tomaw, Gary, Vorian or PriceChild, I could use a bit of your time :) | 23:22 |
jussi01 | what is it, troll day today? | 23:23 |
LjL | "vilewii" in #ubuntu, ban evading as you can see above - repeatedly - now appears to be messing with me | 23:23 |
LjL | by giving email addresses of mine in the channel (which aren't really mine but anyway) | 23:23 |
christel | like everyday pinky | 23:23 |
christel | LjL: (klined) | 23:24 |
christel | short expiry time mind | 23:25 |
LjL | sure, thanks. he'll probably be back from another host before you know it anyway | 23:25 |
christel | yeah, tends to be the case | 23:25 |
LjL | christel: he just has ;) | 23:26 |
LjL | vilewii1 | 23:26 |
tomaw | not online | 23:26 |
LjL | sorry, vilewii111 | 23:26 |
LjL | from cox.net this time | 23:26 |
Seeker` | I give up with these kernel panics, night | 23:26 |
tomaw | he's messaging you with crap so you know it's the same guy? | 23:26 |
LjL | tomaw: ... no, i know he's the same guy because he just said "<vilewii111> you think i cant change my host?" | 23:27 |
LjL | also, his nicknames are anagrams of one another | 23:27 |
tomaw | Ah, he's not in any channels currently | 23:27 |
LjL | because i just banned him from #ubuntu | 23:28 |
tomaw | meh sorry | 23:28 |
tomaw | <-- slow this evening | 23:28 |
tomaw | he's gone | 23:28 |
* christel hands tomaw a garden gnome | 23:29 | |
christel | (tis your prize) | 23:29 |
LjL | sorry i'm just being bitter because he's getting on my nerves | 23:29 |
LjL | will go smoke a cigarette instead of following his hostname changes | 23:29 |
christel | :) | 23:29 |
tomaw | pfft, you should give up | 23:29 |
LjL | @mark #ubuntu wiivile Known hosts used so far: *.pa.comcast.net c-24-11-171-94.hsd1.mi.comcast.net 129-60.200-68.tampabay.res.rr.com cpe-65-189-142-147.columbus.res.rr.com adsl-70-130-174-252.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net ip72-216-13-141.pn.at.cox.net - Nicknames changing, always an anagram/variation on "wiivile" - Ident & GECOS unpredictable - Hangs in -es, #macosx, #macdev, ##c - Mild troll when left alone | 23:38 |
ubottu | The operation succeeded. | 23:38 |
LjL | jrib, and you're even "helping" him meh | 23:40 |
* jrib lacks LjL's esp | 23:40 | |
ubottu | In #ubuntu-bots, nubotu said: ubottu: Ubuntu is a complete Linux-based operating system, freely available with both community and professional support. It is developed by a large community and we invite you to participate too! - Also see http://www.ubuntu.com | 23:48 |
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