[04:27] <calc> ouch bug 286175
[04:27] <calc> read that bug as (fontconfig using program) crashes when fc-cache run
[06:00] <dholbach> good morning
[06:56] <MTecknology> I'm trying to use the PackageInfo plugin that ubottu uses. I keep getting an error thrown at me and I'm sure it's because of the supybot.plugins.PackageInfo.aptdir setting, but I don't know what to set it too or if there's something else I need to do
[06:56] <MTecknology> Anybody know wbat I'm doing wrong?
[06:57] <pitti> Good morning
[06:57] <MTecknology> hi
[06:57] <MTecknology> pitti: any advice?
[06:57] <MTecknology> I need to go to sleep soon :P
[06:58] <pitti> I don't know about ubottu's guts, sorry
[07:06] <wgrant> How do I get that horrid Landscape ad out of my MOTD?
[07:08] <pitti> wgrant: it's from /etc/update-motd.d/50-landscape-sysinfo
[07:09] <wgrant> pitti: Ah, thanks... is it really meant to tell me to go there even when my machine has no Landscape account?
[07:09] <pitti> wgrant: well, it's from landscape-common, the sysinfo component
[07:10] <pitti> (which works without a landscape account)
[07:10] <wgrant> I know.
[07:10] <wgrant> But it tells me to go to landscape.c.c to manage it.
[07:10] <wgrant> Which is wrong, unless I want to pay large amounts of cash.
[07:20] <lool> morning
[07:20] <slangasek> morning
[08:03]  * Hobbsee waves, from the land of wet string
[08:03] <soren> Hobbsee: There's a land of wet string?
[08:04] <Hobbsee> soren: yeah.  My uni connection
[08:04] <Hobbsee> soren: well, apart from 'australia' in general
[08:04] <soren> Hobbsee: Oh. Heh :)
[08:04] <Hobbsee> soren: :)
[08:05] <persia> It's not so much that the string is wet : it's the small rubber bands used to patch the places where the string broke.
[08:05] <Hobbsee> and the carrier pidgeons.
[08:05] <ogra> they are wet ?
[08:06] <persia> wet carrier pidgeons aren't an issue from being wet, but they will get delayed if they can find a dry place to hide for a few hours.
[08:06] <Hobbsee> yeah...
[08:06]  * Hobbsee eyes 33 second lag with distaste.
[08:06] <ogra> but i imagine they fly a lot slower if wet ... at least our european carrier pidgeons do ...
[08:07] <wgrant> THe problem is that our string is getting a bit dry due to the drought.
[08:07] <persia> ogra, Clearly you need the intense competition for resources with marsupial flying bats to breed the best sort of pidgeon.
[08:08]  * Hobbsee giggles
[08:08] <ogra> well, bats come with raincoats by design ... thats why there are so many more than pidgeons don under i guess
[08:09] <ogra> *down
[08:09] <wgrant> It helps that bats hang upside down, so they have fewer problems down here.
[08:10] <ogra> yeah, they have a good sense of direction
[09:14] <evand> YokoZar: Please file a bug and attach /var/log/syslog and /var/log/partman
[09:15] <YokoZar> evand: didn't get no /var/log because it was from the live CD session...I should retest with a daily
[09:16] <YokoZar> evand: but I'll try and reproduce again.  Seems serious.
[09:18] <evand> YokoZar: I'm confused by that statement.  Why would it being run from the live CD session not produce /var/log?
[09:19] <slangasek> probably means he didn't save the /var/log
[09:23] <nickbooker> I understand acpi-support is now deprecated.  I've got a laptop here whose wireless doesn't come back after resume so where should I put the runes to re-enable it?
[09:24] <nickbooker> sorry wrong channel
[09:40] <mathiaz> slangasek: are you respinning the -server isos?
[09:40] <mathiaz> soren: ^^
[09:41] <slangasek> mathiaz: we're doing a full respin because of ubuntu-minimal changes; the open-iscsi thing is still semi-pending, I'm deferring ubuntu-server reroll until that's settled
[09:42] <soren> slangasek: What's holding back a decision on open-iscsi?
[09:42] <slangasek> soren: my abject horror at accepting a 20kloc diff two days before release
[09:43] <slangasek> with only minimal regression-testing on Ubuntu, none whatsoever on Debian because the Debian package was botched, and who knows what from upstream given that this is a "development release" version
[09:43] <slangasek> soren: so I've been biding my time hoping someone has a better idea :)
[09:44] <cjwatson> no hope of a cherry-pick?
[09:45] <slangasek> cjwatson: the cherry-pick is minimum 2kloc, and depends on other patches in the git tree
[09:45] <cjwatson> oh, ok, read the mail now
[09:45] <slangasek> so I would say no
[09:46] <soren> was I copied on this e-mail?
[09:48] <slangasek> no, I can bounce it to you
[09:49] <slangasek> bounced
[09:49] <soren> Thank you.
[09:50] <Koon> I'm not sure shipping with a well-tested userland that just doesn't match the kernel side of things (and officially breaks things) is better than shipping potentially broken code.
[09:51] <mathiaz> Koon: well - in the former we at least know what's broken.
[09:52] <Koon> mathiaz: I am not sure we know the exact extents of the breakage, though.
[09:52] <Koon> we know what still works.
[09:54] <cjwatson> Koon: yeah, that's why the choice is horrible
[09:55] <Koon> cjwatson: yes, and I lack the release experience (and accompanying horror stories) to be of any good advice here :)
[09:57] <slangasek> it doesn't help much here
[09:57] <slangasek> we're still basically flipping a coin
[10:07] <pitti> mvo: bug 288662, comments 7 and 8 are interesting; maybe we should improve the u-m message about the nvidia->nv migration to point out what won't work any more?
[10:07] <pitti> mvo: we could do that in an SRU, since it only affects upgrades
[10:07] <cjwatson> on iSCSI, I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it would be better to spend time making sure we've fixed the problem properly (since every time we look we seem to find another problem) and SRU that, and also release-note it for upgraders
[10:08] <cjwatson> but this is a vote not a veto
[10:08] <mvo> pitti: let me have a look
[10:08] <mathiaz> Koon: cjwatson: bug 236640 <- this is another bug that impacts the installer run in iscsi mode
[10:08] <slangasek> cjwatson: oh, have there been a series of problems with iscsi?
[10:09] <cjwatson> slangasek: boot order busted; multiple targets; and I think something else
[10:09] <slangasek> ah
[10:10] <tseliot> pitti, mvo: multiple screens layouts will be lost too. Clone mode should still work with nv though
[10:10] <cjwatson> mathiaz: though not a regression
[10:12] <slangasek> mdz: did you have thoughts on the iscsi update question?
[10:13] <mvo> pitti: I answered in the bug
[10:14] <pitti> mvo: how may translations do we actually have?
[10:18] <mvo> pitti: few it seems, some chinese ones, but that seems to be it (from looking at the po files, I have not checked rosetta directly)
[10:18] <slangasek> cjwatson: hmm, I had been thinking iSCSI featured prominently in the technical overview for intrepid to date, but I guess I was thinking of the entry in the release notes... so it's not omgkittens terrible if iSCSI support at 8.10 release time is not as good as 8.04's, if we release-note the issues
[10:19] <slangasek> I don't know if iSCSI users are likely to stick with the LTS anyway?
[10:20] <mathiaz> slangasek: right - moreover considering that iscsi support in the installer is not working (and this is not a regression) I don't see a compelling reason to push it into release
[10:21]  * slangasek nods
[10:21] <mathiaz> slangasek: seems that an SRU and a note in the release notes is good enough.
[10:22] <slangasek> ok
[10:23] <slangasek> that's settled, then; I'll queue up ubuntu-server for rebuilding with the rest of the bunch
[10:47] <cjwatson> slangasek: yes, I had the same misrecollection about our comms
[10:54] <mathiaz> slangasek: I've updated bug 289470 by adding a task for ubuntu-release-notes
[10:54] <slangasek> mathiaz: great, thanks
[10:55] <mathiaz> slangasek: is there anything that needs to be done?
[10:55] <slangasek> mathiaz: uh... ISOs need to be tested? :-)
[10:55] <slangasek> or did you mean "anything" in the context of that bug? :)
[10:55] <mathiaz> slangasek: yes - in the context of that bug
[10:55] <mathiaz> slangasek: I'm not planning to head out to the bahamas (yet)
[10:56] <slangasek> if you wanted to draft the release notes text, that would certainly be appreciated
[10:56] <TheMuso> /c/c
[10:57] <mvo> slangasek: you appear to have the lock right now on the IntrepidReleaseNotes page, is that still current?
[10:57] <slangasek> yes, it is
[10:57] <slangasek> mvo: drop the text in the bug instead and I can pick it up from there?
[10:57] <mvo> slangasek: ok, will do - thanks
[11:02] <mvo> slangasek: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-release-notes/+bug/259385/comments/32
[11:04] <liw> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs lists 290024, even though that is milestoned for intrepid-updates, not intrepid; is that the way it should be?
[11:06] <wgrant> liw: That just shows bugs targetted to Intrepid.
[11:06] <wgrant> Targetting is orthogonal to milestoning.
[11:07] <liw> then I admit I am lost in Launchpad. never mind, I'll figure it out when release pressure is over
[11:07] <slangasek> liw: what wgrant said; the milestone name is "ubuntu-8.10" rather than "intrepid", and the list of critical bugs for that milestone shows up at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=1326
[11:08] <liw> that list is empty
[11:08] <wgrant> I'd hope so.
[11:08] <slangasek> (the list of /non/-critical bugs for that milestone shows up at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.10, which is a nicer url but much less useful to the release team :)
[11:09] <slangasek> liw: yes, and that's a great feeling :-)
[11:09] <liw> slangasek, ok, so is there something I can do to help the release?
[11:10] <wgrant> Test test test!
[11:10] <slangasek> liw: yes, we're in the "test to make sure we really didn't miss any critical bugs and the CDs hold together" phase
[11:10] <liw> test what? ISOs? upgrade my laptop to intrepid? test things randomly?
[11:11]  * liw is inquisitive
[11:11] <slangasek> anything that's live on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all
[11:11]  * wgrant would recommend DVDs, if you have bandwidth.
[11:11] <wgrant> They always need more testing.
[11:19] <mvo> wasabi: hey! re bug #288432 - does it work if you remove xorg.conf entirely? is it a problem with the new xorg.conf, does the old one work (if you rename the copy it made)?
[11:21]  * Hobbsee fries all the spam discarded from the ubuntu-devel@ moderation queue
[11:21] <Hobbsee> breakfast, anyone?
[11:22] <soren> Hobbsee: Oh, there too? The motu lists got hit as well :(
[11:22] <dholbach> soren: going through it right now
[11:22] <dholbach> [1/514] [11:22] <soren> dholbach: Actually, then there's that many, I'd use the web interface.
[11:23] <Hobbsee> dholbach: you win.
[11:23] <soren> dholbach: It has a checkbox at the bottom to discard everything.
[11:23] <Hobbsee> soren: it usually gets hit - maybe it just wasn't unmoderated for a while
[11:23] <soren> dholbach: Correction: To discard everything that you haven't explicitly accepted or something.
[11:23] <Hobbsee> soren: at least for u-d@, most of it gets knocked off by some basic rules
[11:23] <Hobbsee> soren: so it only takes a few minutes
[11:24] <Hobbsee> which is a huge help!
[11:24] <dholbach> soren: woohoo, you're right
[11:24] <dholbach> I didn't use the moderation pages in a long time :)
[11:25] <soren> dholbach: Me neither, since your told me about listadmin. :)   But for this amount of stuff to be discarded in one go, it's actually faster.
[11:25] <dholbach> yeah
[11:26] <soren> Hobbsee: I think that's true for the motu lists as well. Either that, or dholbach is some kind of ninja that moderates things as fast as I receive mail from mailman about them needing moderation.
[11:27] <Hobbsee> hehe
[11:27] <Hobbsee> well, we knew dholbach was a ninja
[11:28] <dholbach> thanks for the flowers :)
[11:32] <liw> Hobbsee, I've seen dholbach, so how can he be a ninja?
[11:33] <dholbach> liw: did you see me in my black ninja dress already?
[11:33] <liw> dholbach, no, I only saw an empty chair
[11:35] <liw> perhaps that's all the proof we need of ninjaness
[11:50] <jwendell> hi, mako. is your book 'debian bible' free? I mean, if I find some pdf on the internet, is it legal?
[12:38] <dholbach> soren: what does    kvm: 28429: cpu0 unhandled rdmsr: 0x417   mean? :)
[12:39] <heno> *** We have a selection of freshly baked ISO images from this morning at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ Please help test! ***
[12:42] <Treenaks> dholbach: that the guest tried to read Machine Specific Register 0x417, but that that case is not handled? ;)
[12:44] <Keybuk> weird, my kvm machine appears to have locked up
[12:49] <Koon> Keybuk: I've been experiencing quite a few kvm guest lockups recently.
[12:49] <Koon> I had trouble so far determining a pattern.
[12:50] <jdstrand> Keybuk: I had a lockup with my laptop that looked just like the ipw2200 iwl3495 bug we all looked at-- but just the one since the new kernel (I booted it 82 times with no lockups) :/
[12:51] <jdstrand> only thing different was I was on battery power at the time, and my 82 boots were all on AC
[12:51]  * mvo had kvm lockups as well, but only in gui mode, never in headless mode
[12:51] <ogra> 82 times ? wow, thats two fscks at least
[12:51] <soren> dholbach: Unless I'm mistaken it means one of my patches has been dropped :(
[12:51] <jdstrand> ogra: 3-- I never bothered to change the defaults
[13:13] <tseliot> pitti: I can't reproduce the treeview bug with jockey-kde
[13:13] <tseliot> pitti: I know how to fix this bug though: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jockey/+bug/227658
[13:25] <tseliot> pitti: I'll have to write a handler for virtualbox guest utils so that the Device and InputDevice sections are configured by jockey
[13:45] <munckfish> NCommander: you seen this one LP: #278801
[13:45] <munckfish> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ps3-port/+bug/278801
[13:46] <pitti> tseliot: treeview> good to know, thanks for checking
[13:46] <pitti> tseliot: I'll fix the gtk bit
[13:46] <pitti> tseliot: virtualbox handler would be awesome indeed
[13:46] <munckfish> NCommander: ports got missed does you're new 2.6.27 kernel have the correct setting?
[13:47] <NCommander> munckfish, we can do a SRU to fix the ports tree
[13:48] <NCommander> munckfish, ATM, intrepid-proposed/intrepid-updates isn't open yet, so it will have to wait for that
[13:49] <munckfish> NCommander: sure
[13:51] <NCommander> munckfish, fix committed to jaunty
[13:52] <munckfish> NCommander: cool thx
[13:53] <munckfish> NCommander: I'll deal with the old one. I've a few other things I need to negotiate with the KT about releasing
[13:53] <munckfish> "old one" ---> "Intrepid Ports"
[13:53] <NCommander> right
[13:58] <seb128> soren: hi, is the mouse move being laggy in virt-manager a known issue? it works correctly in kvm though
[13:59] <tseliot> pitti:ok, I'll work on it then ;)
[13:59] <soren> seb128: It's not something I've noticed, but I don't really test gui stuff in kvm much.
[14:02] <RaffoPazzo> hi
[14:02] <neighborlee> hello ;0-
[14:02] <RaffoPazzo> does anybody ever encountered "undefined symbol" problem while running an application ?
[14:03] <neighborlee> yeah it happens..;)
[14:03] <Chipzz> RaffoPazzo: wrong channel
[14:03] <RaffoPazzo> it's a developing channel, i think that someone could help me
[14:04] <ion_> RaffoPazzo: wrong channel
[14:04] <RaffoPazzo> which channel should i go in ?
[14:04] <neighborlee> RaffoPazzo, typically  not  unless its blender related..not that someone would mind but usuallly such things are asked of the channel specifically for that application ;)
[14:04] <neighborlee> what is the app
[14:04] <RaffoPazzo> my own developed application
[14:05] <RaffoPazzo> for an embedded ARM linux system
[14:05] <neighborlee> what language
[14:05] <RaffoPazzo> C
[14:05] <neighborlee> then : #c
[14:05] <RaffoPazzo> i have some sort of problem with static linking
[14:06] <RaffoPazzo> well
[14:06] <RaffoPazzo> thanks anyway
[14:06] <RaffoPazzo> bye
[14:10]  * Chipzz proposes a nag screen in xchat on startup and on joining a channel that instructs people to read the bloody topic :P
[14:10] <Chipzz> preferably with a non-obvious way of turning it of :P
[14:11] <liw> Chipzz, that'll only work if xchat forces people to type (not copy+paste) the topic into the program...
[14:12] <Chipzz> liw: I'm guessing people (especially newbies) don't even notice the topic
[14:12] <Chipzz> drawing attention to the fact that irc channels *have* topics and that those topics are *relevant* to the channel would go a long way
[15:20] <Shanix_> hi all, does anyone know why if I use the "sudo fence_tool dump" command, after it's complete, the CPU usage go up to 100% and stay there? And fenced is the process using the CPU
[15:22] <Shanix_> using the redhat-cluster-suite package
[16:17] <jdong> what's the fancy new Intrepid replacement for xmodmaps?
[16:17] <jdong> (usecase: key swapping)
[16:30] <Keybuk> jdong: what's wrong with xmodmap?
[16:32] <ion_> I’m using xmodmap on intrepid.
[16:33] <calc> can anyone familiar with fontconfig look at bug 286175
[16:34]  * calc thinks this one will bite us right after release
[16:35] <jdong> Keybuk: on unplugging and replugging the input device, the mapping is lost
[16:36] <Keybuk> sure, because you need to run xmodmap again
[16:36] <ogra> why doesnt udev do that for keyboards ?
[16:36] <jdong> Keybuk: what's the best way to discover when this happens and run xmodmap automatically?
[16:36] <Keybuk> ogra: udev doesn't do anything in this regard, and it should not
[16:37] <Keybuk> jdong: what are you changing with xmodmap?
[16:37] <ogra> why not ? (beyond the fact that xmodmap is a workaround tool)
[16:37] <jdong> Keybuk: alt<->super
[16:38] <Keybuk> ogra: well, for a start, xmodmap needs authorisation for a list of X sessions it needs to touch?
[16:38] <Keybuk> jdong: isn't that a standard variant option?
[16:38] <ogra> hmm, right ... to high level
[16:38] <jdong> Keybuk: is it!
[16:38] <Keybuk> System -> Preferences -> Keyboard -> Layouts -> Other Options -> Alt/Win key behaviour
[16:38] <jdong> Keybuk: you rock.
[16:39] <federico1> jwendell: ping
[16:39] <jwendell> federico1, pong
[16:39] <federico1> jwendell: hey there!
[16:39] <jwendell> federico1, hello!
[16:39] <federico1> jwendell: I'm looking into gtk-vnc for an Important Customer(tm) bug
[16:39] <jwendell> hehe
[16:40] <Keybuk> jdong: your variant might not be there, of course
[16:41] <lobo-ptr> hi
[16:41] <Keybuk> ogra: the "correct" way would be for whatever is currently applying xkb options (gnome-settings-daemon I think?) to do it
[16:41] <calc> bryce: you almost have xorg into green status :)
[16:41] <ogra> Keybuk, yeah, indeed
[16:41] <jwendell> federico1, you might want to join #virt at oftc
[16:41] <jwendell> gtk-vnc devs are there ;)
[16:41] <bryce> calc, on which?
[16:42] <ogra> i thought hal ... but hal wont be picked up by X ... it could only trigger something even higher level ... g-s-d seems the right place
[16:42] <Keybuk> ogra: though I'd argue that xmodmap is a horrible interface - and that something much better could be dreamed up
[16:42] <ogra> ++
[16:42] <federico1> jwendell: oftc?
[16:43] <ogra> hal can do that already through .fdi files though ... but sadly not very dynamic if the X server is up once
[16:43] <jwendell> federico1, irc.oftc.net
[16:43] <federico1> jwendell: ah, ok, thanks
[16:43] <jwendell> The Open and Free Technology Community
[16:44] <Keybuk> ogra: that's a fallback though
[16:44] <Keybuk> the actual way your keyboard layout is selected is by gnome-settings-daemon
[16:44] <Keybuk> which speaks xkb
[16:44] <ogra> right, but you can modify xkb via .fdi
[16:45] <calc> bryce: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+upstreamreport
[16:45] <calc> bryce: > 90% turns it green, you are at exactly 90% right now :)
[16:45] <Keybuk> ogra: but you shouldn't
[16:45] <bryce> calc, heh right on the edge
[16:45] <ogra> if you want it to catch a low level .fdi is a way to do it if you want it user configurable g-s-d is it
[16:45] <Keybuk> besides, I'm being told that .fdi files are going away any day now
[16:46] <calc> bryce: that page is generated realtime so any changes you make are visible immediately
[16:46] <ogra> in devicekit :)
[16:46] <pitti> Keybuk: conversion to udev rules for DeviceKit?
[16:46] <Keybuk> devicekit doesn't do fdi
[16:46] <ogra> we still use hal all over the place
[16:46] <Keybuk> which sucks
[16:46] <ogra> but is the current tool
[16:46] <Keybuk> actually, I really don't like the fact that devicekit throws away the nice structured HAL keys
[16:46] <Keybuk> HAL has strings, integers, arrays, structures
[16:46] <Keybuk> all DeviceKit has is FOO=BAR
[16:46] <ogra> yeah
[16:47] <Keybuk> I think we should throw it all away
[16:47] <ogra> heh
[16:47] <Keybuk> and reimplement udev, HAL, DeviceKit, PolicyKit and ConsoleKit
[16:47] <ogra> do it in kernel ?
[16:47] <Keybuk> we could call it
[16:47] <Keybuk> DeviceCore!
[16:48] <ogra> hehe
[16:48] <pitti> Keybuk: we could call it "Linux 3.0"?
[16:49] <bryce> calc, ok fixed
[16:50] <Keybuk> pitti: Linux X!
[16:51] <bryce> calc, the proportion of green on that page overall is pretty impressive
[16:51] <jdong>  do we get cool animal names too?
[16:51] <bryce> calc, although a lot have <5 bugs upstreamed.
[16:53] <TomaszD_> hello, does http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ contain the final release, barring any unforseen catastrophic issues?
[16:53] <pitti> ogra: dbus will actually move into the kernel (no kidding)
[16:53] <lobo-ptr> I want to be a prospective ubuntu developer, found myself a bug and have a problem with dget tool. Am I asking for help on a proper chanell?
[16:53] <ogra> pitti, i know
[16:54] <ogra> pitti, i'm evngelizing that topic since prague ;)
[16:56] <calc> bryce: yea, i think it should be green based on all parts not just upstreamed vs pending_upstream
[16:58] <calc> TomaszD_: always :)
[16:58] <calc> TomaszD_: its just that most of the time there will be updates ;-)
[16:58] <calc> TomaszD_: just use rsync to update and it won't take much to get the final version if it does change
[16:58] <calc> TomaszD_: the last rsync update i did only downloaded 4MB to update my iso
[17:01] <sistpoty|work> lobo-ptr: #ubuntu-motu would be more appropriate
[17:01] <calc> cjwatson: how does the url you sent in the email differ from: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-8.10 ?
[17:01] <calc> well other than the fact that LP now oopes on it
[17:01] <lobo-ptr> sistpoty|work, thanks
[17:02] <calc> cjwatson: the reason i am asking is that LP seems to not show milestoned bugs at times, especially ones for openoffice.org unless i go to the overall Ubuntu milestone list
[17:02] <calc> cjwatson: eg i do a search for OOo milestoned bugs and it shows nothing at all for me
[17:03]  * calc 's wife just told him he headed to lunch, bbia 1hr
[17:07] <neighborlee> highvoltage, there is something wrong with #ubuntu..I can get connect to any other channel, but #ubuntu is sending my xchat cliento  south of the border ;)....any one know maybe whats up ? ;))
[17:21] <pitti> kirkland: just set up my new laptop installation with ecryptfs; works nicely
[17:21] <pitti> kirkland: I symlinked .mozilla, .ssh, and .gnupg into Private/
[17:22] <kirkland> pitti: very nice, good to hear ;-)
[17:24] <seb128> pitti: can I reassign the nautilus and private directory interaction bugs to you now? ;-)
[17:25]  * seb128 has no such setup and no interest in working on that
[17:25] <pitti> seb128: I now get a Private mount icon and Private directory on my desktop, but I guess I have to live with that
[17:25] <pitti> seb128: what kind of trouble does it give, nautilus-wise?
[17:26] <seb128> pitti: a mount icon which is not working apparently
[17:26] <seb128> or rather than you can't unmount
[17:26] <pitti> hm, I can open either
[17:26] <pitti> (the dir or the mount icon)
[17:26] <pitti> seb128: oh, unmount; I don't think you are supposed to
[17:26] <kirkland> the dir open works fine for me
[17:26] <seb128> right, the complain are about the dir being listed as a mount where it's not one
[17:26] <pitti> but I'd actually prefer if I wouldn't see the mount icon at all
[17:26] <pitti> well, it is a mount
[17:26] <kirkland> pitti: for unmount, the unmount action on that icon needs to be pointed to /sbin/umount.ecryptfs_private
[17:27] <seb128> so it's listed in the places list, etc
[17:27] <kirkland> filesystem of type -t ecryptfs could be excluded from that list, no?
[17:27] <kirkland> i think that might be the easiest thing
[17:27] <pitti> right, I'd rather special-case this kind of fs from being displayed in nautilus
[17:27] <kirkland> blacklist ecryptfs filesystem types
[17:27] <pitti> seb128: feel free to assign that bug to me, yes
[17:27] <seb128> pitti: thanks ;-)
[17:28] <seb128> pitti: do you think just not listing those mounts is the easier way?
[17:28] <seb128> because if we want to do that that's a trivial glib change
[17:29] <pitti> seb128: well, I'm trying to think what the best way would be experience-wise
[17:29] <seb128> the other way is to teach gnome-mount to work correctly on those
[17:29] <pitti> and since users can't mount/umount ecryptfs directories ATM, there is little point in showing them
[17:29] <seb128> I'm not sure if that should be showed as normal directory to the user
[17:29] <pitti> just using the Private directory seems much more straightforward
[17:29] <seb128> or rather as a mount
[17:30] <pitti> personally I'd favor the directory
[17:30] <pitti> sure, it's a "magic" one, but that it is a mount is purely an implementation detail
[17:30] <pitti> at least having two is pointless, I should have either the dir or the mount
[17:31] <seb128> right
[17:31] <seb128> I think I know what to change to glib to ignore those, will give it a try after intrepid
[17:31]  * pitti -> dinner, bbl
[17:31] <seb128> enjoy!
[17:31] <pitti> seb128: yeah, should be a simple mount type filter
[17:33] <kees> slangasek: is "enscript" on any of the CDs?
[17:34] <mvo> kirkland: I added ~/Private today too and I'm a happy user of it \o/
[17:34] <kirkland> mvo: awesome ;-)  glad to hear
[17:34]  * kirkland far prefers happy users to gripey users
[17:34]  * kees still wishes there was a simple way he could answer the "is it on a CD?" question for himself.
[17:40] <kees> pitti: hi! do you happen to have visibility into which packages end up on the various CDs?
[17:43] <pitti> kees: yes, that's not a secret; the lists are right beside the .iso files, in .manifest (desktops) and .list (alternates)
[17:43] <pitti> kees: to be precise, .list is the CD contents, while .manifest is the contents of a livefs
[17:45] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, seems my SD card reader stopped working entirely in intrepid; even booting with a card inside doesn't help any more; does your's work?
[17:47] <kees> pitti: ah! okay
[17:48] <pitti> kees: some clever combination of wget and grep can probably make this easy
[17:48] <kees> pitti: wait, this is a file list, not a package list?
[17:48] <pitti> kees: no, a package list
[17:48] <pitti> I'm not aware of file lists
[17:49] <kees> pitti: ah! sorry, I see now -- all the html early in the list tricked me.  :)
[17:53] <Keybuk> pitti: err, haven't tried recently
[17:54] <ogra> mine worked on saturday
[17:54] <Keybuk> pitti: it worked relatively recently
[17:55] <ogra> and does so today as well, mounts both partitions
[17:58] <kees> if I have a security update for a package that doesn't appear on the CDs, can I upload it?
[18:14]  * calc back
[18:15] <calc> cjwatson: ping
[18:16] <cjwatson> calc: Launchpad supports two nearly-though-not-quite-independent pieces of information on bugs: release target (hardy, intrepid, etc.) and milestone (intrepid-alpha-1, ubuntu-8.10-beta, ubuntu-8.10, intrepid-updates, etc.)
[18:16] <calc> ah ok
[18:16] <cjwatson> calc: the URL you quote above only looks at the milestone; the URL I sent looks at both
[18:17] <cjwatson> calc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RCBugTargetting is supposed to explain when to use each of those
[18:17] <calc> cjwatson: bug 286175 might should be RC targeted
[18:17] <calc> cjwatson: it also crashes OOo (or a very similar issue in the same function does)
[18:18] <cjwatson> calc: I mentioned it on #ubuntu-release earlier, but nobody bit
[18:18] <calc> oh ok
[18:18] <cjwatson> calc: I do distinctly remember showing you RCBugTargetting in a foundations team meeting a few weeks ago :)
[18:18] <calc> cjwatson: sorry i must have forgotten :(
[18:19] <calc> cjwatson: i guess i thought it was a bug since i see a somewhat similar (but real bug i think) with openoffice.org bug listings
[18:19] <calc> er a bug wrt displaying the bugs on LP
[18:19] <cjwatson> basically, the state that bug is in indicates that a developer would like to fix it for that milestone, but it isn't RC
[18:19] <calc> cjwatson: for openoffice.org if i try to list all bugs relating to a milestone it shows nothing
[18:19] <cjwatson> calc: is there a candidate fix for that bug? if not, it has no hope
[18:20] <cjwatson> calc: even if it does, it has almost no hope; we have already rolled images that we hope are final, and uploading fontconfig would require rerolling almost everything
[18:20] <calc> cjwatson: i haven't looked bisected yet to see if it was a bug we introduced or an upstream bug
[18:20] <cjwatson> calc: it seems more plausible to fix that in an SRU
[18:20] <calc> cjwatson: ok
[18:20] <cjwatson> calc: which, from the description, seems pretty sensible
[18:20] <calc> anyone updating while running OOo (maybe evince? and others) will see the apps crash when fc-cache is run
[18:20] <cjwatson> calc: I agree it's a serious problem as described, and have targeted it to intrepid and moved the milestone to intrepid-updates
[18:21] <calc> but hopefully apport can group the bugs together quickly :)
[18:21] <calc> i agree i doubt a resolution can even be found in time much less the rerolling of the images
[18:21] <cjwatson> calc: if you can confirm the problem definitively, then please use "also affects project" to add a task on ubuntu-release-notes, perhaps suggesting some task we can add there
[18:22] <cjwatson> calc: maybe it's enough to say that people should close applications before upgrading, e.g.
[18:22] <calc> there was a change from 2.5.0 to 2.6.0 in intrepid which might have caused it
[18:22] <calc> cjwatson: yea telling them close apps before upgrading will help a lot of with crash bug reports
[18:22] <calc> i'll try grabbing the old release of fontconfig and see if it still crashes
[18:30] <calc> hmm i don't see reference to this bug upstream so far, i'll test 2.5 from hardy and see if it still crashes though
[18:32] <seb128> calc: can you trigger the bug in a reliable way? in which case you should probably open an upstream bug
[18:32] <seb128> if you can't opening the bug upstream might still be a good idea
[18:33] <calc> seb128: i need to try to trigget it with other apps, i can easily reproduce it with our openoffice.org packages
[18:34] <calc> seb128: someone else got a similar (not certain if the same) crash with evince
[18:34] <seb128> there is quite some evince crashes too
[18:34] <calc> well i mean a crash in the same fontconfig function
[18:35] <calc> all you have to do to see the OOo crash is move a font out of the way, run fc-cache and boom
[18:35] <calc> or add a font, run fc-cache and boom
[18:35] <calc> basically anytime the cache changes i guess
[18:35] <pitti> Keybuk: lsusb says "0b97:7762 O2 Micro, Inc. Oz776 SmartCard Reader"; I guess your d420 has a similar one?
[18:38] <Keybuk> identical
[18:38] <Keybuk> however I don't have an SD card to hand to test with
[18:38] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, thanks
[18:38] <ogra> ah, mine is pci
[18:38] <Keybuk> pitti: how doesn't it work?
[18:39] <pitti> Keybuk: if I plug it in, or boot with one inside, nothing happens at all
[18:39] <pitti> no dmesg, no udev, no device
[18:39] <calc> i'm doing a vm install so i can beat on it without breaking my laptop
[18:40] <ogra> pitti, is that thing builtin ?
[18:40] <pitti> ogra: yes
[18:40] <Keybuk> I have found an SD card
[18:40]  * ogra just had a hard two weeks to find out his builtin webcam can be powered off by an undocumented fn key combo
[18:41] <Keybuk> pitti: my SD card reader functions perfectly
[18:41]  * pitti wonders how to map "Bus 002 Device 005" to something in /sys/bus/usb/devices
[18:41] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, thanks for testing
[18:41] <pitti> this is a brand new and complete intrepid install
[18:41] <Keybuk> pitti: have you used the SD card reader recently?
[18:42] <pitti> Keybuk: no, not for several months
[18:42] <Keybuk> I had similar symptoms a while back
[18:42] <Keybuk> the SD card reader simply did not function, no events, no anything
[18:42] <pitti> you gave it a good shake?
[18:42] <Keybuk> a man from Dell came and replaced the entire main board of the laptop
[18:47] <Keybuk> pitti: have you tried hardy or ... other operating systems?
[18:47] <jdong>      Cooling 0: Processor 0 of 10
[18:48] <pitti> Keybuk: no, not yet
[18:48] <jdong> what on earth does that actually mean? :)
[18:49] <ion_> The zeroth processor, obviously.
[18:49] <jdong> ion_: lol the entire construct doesn't parse in my head
[18:49] <jdong> this is a dual-core machine, I g et a Cooling 0 and Cooling 1 message
[18:49] <jdong> and the "Processor 0 of 10" part makes no sense to me
[18:50] <ogra> so they accidentially built in 20 CPUs in your machine :)
[18:50] <jdong> O COOL IT CAN GOEZ FASTER??
[18:50] <ogra> only gentoo with -OALLCPUS will work on it :P
[18:58] <calc> jdong: quad processor?
[18:59] <jdong> no, single-proc dual-core
[18:59] <calc> oh hmm can't even be 10b cores then
[18:59] <jdong> it is probably some sort of ACPI quirk of this evil Apple machine :)
[18:59] <calc> yea Apple's are evil
[18:59] <jdong> :)
[18:59] <calc> they put poor Dr Watson out of work ;-)
[18:59] <ogra> did you buy it on april 1st ?
[19:00] <jdong> unfortunately not :)
[19:00] <ogra> probably a special edition
[19:00] <Keybuk> 10 is 2 in binary
[19:00] <cjwatson> calc: I never did bother getting a doctorate ...
[19:00] <calc> Keybuk: but 2 is the 3rd processor if you start with 0
[19:00] <calc> cjwatson: dr watson being the crash handler on windows (from what i recall)
[19:00] <calc> apple keeping doctors away and all ;-)
[19:01] <cjwatson> calc: yeah, I know :)
[19:01] <jdong> an apple a day just makes for more kernel hacking to thwack AHCI :)
[19:01] <ogra> calc, i bet colin has handled lost of windows crashes in his life :)
[19:01] <jdong> and that's what I forgot to do with  this iMac setup!
[19:01] <calc> ogra: heh :)
[19:01]  * jdong grumbles and queues up a quick kernel build
[19:02] <ogra> *lots even
[19:02]  * calc wants 11n wireless transfering isos takes too long on 11g
[19:02] <cjwatson> ogra: not really, haven't used Windows in 10+ years
[19:02] <calc> 1-2MB/s is too slow
[19:02] <ogra> really ? not even for friends ?
[19:02] <jdong> calc: that pisses me off too. I can't get the ATA controller into AHCI mode but color me amused this draft-N broadcom worked with one click.
[19:03] <liw> calc, and here I'm whining that gigabit is too slow
[19:03] <calc> i unfortunately still have to use windows with testing out OOo bugs, heh
[19:03] <calc> so what is real world transfer for 11n around 10-20MB/s ?
[19:03] <Keybuk> I use Windows quite often
[19:03]  * ogra finally converted his GF last weekend ... last XP in reach is gone now
[19:04] <calc> i'm going to attempt to convert my wife over when i replace her machine in dec 09
[19:04] <jdong> calc: well campus just got those fancy Cisco UFO routers and I pull about 10MB/s from my dorm server
[19:04] <cjwatson> ogra: well, not other than trivially and not for long enough to run into crashes at any rate
[19:04] <jdong> calc: the dorm system is hooked up on 100mbit and I think that's the bottleneck
[19:04] <calc> she used ubuntu back with 4.10 when i originally converted her but we weren't married yet and she lived far away at the time and didn't like that she didn't know how to use it
[19:04] <ogra> heh, that must have been short then
[19:05] <calc> jdong: cool
[19:05] <cjwatson> ogra: my wife uses Ubuntu (or Xandros on the eeePC, but only because I haven't got round to reinstalling that yet)
[19:05] <cjwatson> and I don't really use anyone else's machine very often
[19:05] <Chipzz> lobo-ptr: no you're not - #ubuntu-motu would probably be best (cfr topic) ;)
[19:06] <ogra> susi just got herself a MSI wind netbook ripoff ... she tried out UNR on it and asked me for a standard desktop install after 30min ... with which she's happy now
[19:06] <calc> anyone else play with vmware 6.5 yet?
[19:06] <Keybuk> calc: yes
[19:06] <jdong> calc: gonna do that tonight to get *shudder* iTunes up.
[19:06] <calc> Keybuk: is there a way to get the keyboard to work with using: xkeymap.nokeycodeMap = "TRUE" ?
[19:06] <calc> Keybuk: without using that i mean
[19:06] <Keybuk> no idea, I just used that and was happy
[19:06] <calc> ok
[19:07] <calc> i read the manual found that and it worked so i didn't know if there was a better way
[19:07] <calc> jdong: hint, use that in ~/.vmware/config
[19:08] <calc> jdong: otherwise up arrow won't work (at least on a US keyboard)
[19:08] <calc> i keep getting printscreen app popping up was funny for about a second
[19:09] <YokoZar> I filed a bug for the problem I was having last night: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/290415
[19:12] <Keybuk> YokoZar: that's because they're mounted, no?
[19:14] <ogra> well, ubiquity should unmount them
[19:19] <YokoZar> Exactly
[19:20] <cjwatson> yeah, I think it used to, it's release notes fodder at this point though
[19:23] <calc> so am i right in reading that the new vmware 3d support is only for windows guests?
[19:24] <cjwatson> YokoZar: I've added a release-notes task
[19:25] <YokoZar> cjwatson: Maybe if I hadn't been lazy and installed the release candidate two days ago this coulda been fixed :)
[19:37] <jdstrand> pitti: hi! are you familiar with gnome-system-tools?
[19:38] <pitti> jdstrand: not intimately, but a bit
[19:38] <jdstrand> pitti: would you mind looking at bug #287134
[19:38] <jdstrand> pitti: I just confirmed this for users-admin
[19:38] <jdstrand> pitti: adduser is ok
[19:40] <seb128> slangasek: bug #260492 is worth having in the upgrade notes?
[19:41] <jdstrand> pitti: sorry for my confusing comment in the bug. I added a clarifying one
[19:41] <jdstrand> and updated the description
[19:43] <pitti> jdstrand: hm, maybe g-s-t still uses 3DES, while standard useradd now uses the new sha256 ones?
[19:44] <pitti> didn't we have such a kind of transition in hardy or intrepid?
[19:44] <jdstrand> pitti: that was my initial thought
[19:44] <seb128> slangasek: to summarize the issue using the nautilus open with dialog used to change the default association (that's fixed in intrepid) but hardy users didn't notice because the settings was not respected in gnome-panel, they will notice after upgrading to intrepid though
[19:44] <jdstrand> pitti: kees got us to sha256 this cycle, I don't know about earlier cycles
[19:45] <pitti> jdstrand: I still have 3des passwords in my shadow; if I change my passwd, they get *significantly* longer
[19:45] <seb128> slangasek: intrepid will not write buggy configuration but users upgrading who used the feature will have to change the association to get it working correctly
[19:46] <kees> jdstrand, pitti: it's been md5 until intrepid.
[19:46] <kees> though the installer forces md5, so only newly created users or changed passwords will get the sha512 encoding
[19:48] <james_w> liboobs has a use_md5 config option
[19:49] <jdstrand> kees: can you peek at bug #287134 ?
[19:49] <kees> jdstrand: yeah, looking now
[19:51] <kees> jdstrand: you just confirmed this?  what does users-admin put in the shadow file for the new user?
[19:51] <jdstrand> kees: yes, it's confimred
[19:51] <jdstrand> test3:I1duWRnu6J/9w:14180:0:99999:7:::
[19:51] <jdstrand> *way* too short
[19:51] <kees> ieeeeeeee
[19:51] <kees> it's using 3DES!
[19:51] <jdstrand> pitti, kees: hardy is not affected
[19:51] <jdstrand> yeah
[19:52] <kees> jdstrand: what does it look like in hardy?
[19:52] <kees> (shadow)
[19:52] <james_w> liboobs needs to be taught how to do sha passwords
[19:52] <jdstrand> test3:$1$ndnH4$UnEoh8cev89cH.Yn4g47w1:14180:0:99999:7:::
[19:52] <kees> james_w: why isn't it using md5?
[19:52] <james_w> and system-tools-backends needs to be taught to use sha512
[19:53] <kees> james_w: but it _reverted_ to 3DES.
[19:53] <james_w> or rather look for it in /etc/pam.d/common-passwd
[19:53]  * jdstrand thinks liboobs is the worst name of a lib, ever
[19:53] <sebner> james_w: ahoi! got my mail? nvm for now, we need to go for a sRU
[19:53] <jdstrand> kees: so looks like md5 in hardy still
[19:53] <james_w> kees: you won't like this, this is really stupid
[19:54] <james_w> kees: liboobs defaults to 3DES, and has an option to make it use md5 (but no option for sha)
[19:54] <kees> james_w: right, but why did that option vanish for intrepid?
[19:54] <james_w> kees: system-tools-backends looks in /etc/pam.d/passwd and looks for md5 in the options, and tells liboobs to use md5 if found.
[19:54]  * kees slaps his forehead
[19:54] <james_w> kees: when sha was turned on this check obviously failed, and so liboobs then defaults to 3DES
[19:55] <kees> james_w: the correct thing for liboobs to do is parse /etc/login.defs
[19:55] <kees> (and if it doesn't find a ENCRYPT_METHOD entry, then to look at pam configs)
[19:56] <kees> and why isn't liboobs just using PAM for this?
[19:56] <james_w> kees: the correct thing and g-s-t rarely seem to collide
[19:56]  * kees cries
[19:56] <slangasek> seb128: yes, sounds like a release notes item to me
[19:57] <jdstrand> kees, james_w: is it unreasonable to have patch liboobs to default to md5 for intrepid, until a proper fix is found?
[19:58] <jdstrand> s/have//
[19:58] <kees> jdstrand: I think that's the best idea, yeah
[19:58] <james_w> I've got to get on a train soon, so can't patch this myself, but I
[19:58] <kees> jdstrand: I was actually thinking of tricking liboobs with   " # md5"  in the pam config
[19:58] <james_w> am sure you can find some way to make this slightly less stupid
[19:58] <jdstrand> kees: be careful with pam-auth-update stuff...
[19:59] <jdstrand> it really just searches for the md5 string in pam? even if it's commented?
[19:59] <kees> james_w: where does liboobs scan the pam configs?
[19:59]  * sebner slightly feels ignored by james_w but that's also fun somehow xD
[19:59] <james_w> kees: system-tools-backends
[20:00] <jdstrand> kees: common-password has a commented md5 in it already
[20:00] <james_w> kees: Users/Users.pm
[20:00] <james_w> kees: ./oobs/oobs-usersconfig.c and ./oobs/oobs-user.c from liboobs for their part.
[20:01] <cjwatson> lool: I could swear I'd made that redirect work, but apache hates me
[20:01] <jdstrand> kees: so I'm getting the distinct feeling you are going to be handling this bug?
[20:01] <kees> james_w: yeah, found the code s-t-b now
[20:01] <james_w> sebner: yeah, sorry, I got your mail, but forgot to reply. I'll look at this for an SRU with you later.
[20:01] <kees> jdstrand: mostly I'm just crying a whole lot.  I'm certainly working on it, but i'm unfamiliar enough with this code what I'll be leaning on james_w  :)
[20:02] <jdstrand> then I'll just get back to iso testing...
[20:02] <sebner> james_w: thx, you wanted to recheck with you. again, no hurry. :) btw, can it be that you are a canoncial employee?
[20:02] <sebner> *you = I
[20:02] <kees> s-t-b has an extensively complex and fragile pam config parser.  craaaazy.
[20:02] <james_w> kees: you've got ten minutes, I can work on the train if you like, but the patch will be a few hours to appear.
[20:03] <james_w> sebner: yeah, you emailed my canonical address :-)
[20:03] <kees> james_w: this will go in as an SRU, I assume?
[20:03] <james_w> kees: that's your call I think.
[20:03] <kees> I might want to push it as a security update, actually.  but I assume slangasek will murder me if I try to get this in before release.
[20:03] <slangasek> kees: please don't clutter the pam config for that, just kick liboobs in the head
[20:04] <kees> slangasek: yeah, agreed.
[20:04] <jdstrand> slangasek: I don't think it'd work there anyway
[20:04] <sebner> james_w: really? I saw the canoncial adress but I think I used the ubuntu one. strange ^^, Am I allowed to ask you for how long you have been a employee now? /me is just asked because this is somehow really cool ^ ^
[20:04] <kees> jdstrand: it would, actually, work.
[20:04] <slangasek> kees: yes, it's not going in before final :)
[20:04] <james_w> sebner: about 6 months.
[20:05] <jdstrand> kees: what is it parsing? my common-password has a commented "md5" in it
[20:05] <sebner> james_w: WOW! crazy to think off that you joined MOTU just 1 month ago or somethink like that. congratulations, really cool =)
[20:05] <james_w> kees: I've got to leave, I'll work on this for a security update if you like. I left my book on the train this morning so I've got nothing better to do than kick liboobs.
[20:05] <jdstrand> ie, the one with the 3DES password
[20:06] <kees> james_w: okay, yeah, please have at it.
[20:06] <james_w> jdstrand: on mine md5 is only mentioned in a commented line, which it skips.
[20:06] <kees> james_w: the immediate fix is to for it to use md5 if "md5" or "sha*" is found in the pam configs
[20:06] <sebner> james_w: ignore all the typos xD /me is a little bit ill again :\
[20:06] <jdstrand> james_w: right, I thought kees was suggesting a commented line
[20:06] <kees> james_w: for jaunty, it'll need to grow proper sha abilities.
[20:06] <kees> jdstrand: slangasek nixed that idea.
[20:06] <jdstrand> james_w: anyhoo, it doesn't matter-- you have at it
[20:07] <james_w> kees: ok, I'll go with that, thanks. I'll try and make sure we don't hit this again when we switch to rot13
[20:07] <kees> heh
[20:07] <kees> james_w: I've added liboobs to bug 51551
[20:08] <james_w> kees: cool, thanks. Signing off now. My mobile will work, but I'll have no internet connection for a couple of hours.
[20:08] <kees> james_w: okay, thanks!
[20:09]  * kees wonders what Fedora is doing about this....
[20:09] <NCommander> kees, doing about what?
[20:09] <kees> NCommander: supposedly Fedora switched to sha512 passwords too, but they use system-backend-tools too
[20:09] <kees> NCommander: do you have the Fedora beta handy?
[20:10] <NCommander> I can make it handy
[20:11] <NCommander> kees, well, as long as PAM knew how to handle the sha512 passwords, everything should just work
[20:11] <jdstrand> one would think
[20:12] <NCommander> it doesnt?
[20:12] <kees> NCommander: that assumes that insane "system management" tools aren't writing their own passwords... like liboobs is.
[20:13] <NCommander> THen liboobs needs porting to PAM
[20:13] <RainCT> Uhm.. can the trash and the volume control applets only be added once to the panel? (Because they give an error and ask me if I want to remove them if I try to add them, but those that were there by default are working fine)
[20:14] <NCommander> kees, well, liboobs sits on dbus, it doesn't seem to access the password database(s) directly
[20:17] <BrianR___> Where can I find information on the new "ipia" architecture - like the compiler and stuff?
[20:19] <calc> BrianR___: lpia? its essentially the in order i386 arch that the intel atom uses (aiui)
[20:21] <BrianR___> calc: Aah. That's why I was having so much trouble finding it. Aparently the in font where I first read about it the 'l' looked like an 'i'
[20:21] <calc> low power intel architecture :)
[20:21] <BrianR___> calc: So "http://lwn.net/Articles/247003/" might be a good answer to my question... Would have found it right away if I weren't spelling it wrong.
[20:21] <BrianR___> calc: Thanks.
[20:22] <calc> ok
[20:22] <BrianR___> Oh... Is there any sort of working multiarch thing?
[20:27]  * pitti finally gets ddebs.ubuntu.com to have correct and gpg-signed release files
[20:32] <kees> pitti: \o/
[20:32] <pitti> mvo: question for you in bug 289855
[20:32] <pitti> kees: intrepid being totally frozen is a nice opportunity to work on infrastructure :)
[20:35] <kees> pitti: nice.  what key is used to sign it?
[20:36] <pitti> kees: see https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/185625/comments/7
[20:36] <geser> pitti: you mean if you can't break packages you break the infrastructure instead? :)
[20:36] <pitti> MUST ... HACK ...
[20:39] <mvo> pitti: oh, that is really good - then its probably just a cornercase bug for people without /media/cdrom :)
[20:40]  * mvo adds a bug followup
[20:43] <pitti> seb128: are you already sponsoring bug 256048 or shall I do it now?
[20:44] <seb128> pitti: I've several hardy desktop srus I want to do, I'll likely do some tomorrow or the day after that but feel free to do this one if you want
[20:45] <pitti> seb128: taking that one then
[20:45] <seb128> thanks
[20:45] <pitti> seb128: I'm doing CD testing, so I can do some sponsoring in parallel
[20:46] <seb128> right, I'm doing bug triage right now, too sleeping to do sru uploads now ;-)
[20:49] <jdong> pitti: you're my hero... That bug has bugged me for quite some time now :)
[20:55] <pitti> kirkland: if I log out from a chroot, I get "Sessions still open, not unmounting"
[20:55] <pitti> kirkland: I guess that's from libpam_ecryptfs?
[20:56] <kirkland> pitti: it's from umount.ecryptfs_private itself;  it has a built-in counter
[20:56] <kirkland> pitti: count should be in /tmp/ecryptfs-pitti-Private
[20:57] <kirkland> pitti: it'll unmount when that counter hits 0, or that file doesn't exist
[20:57] <pitti> kirkland: right, I just wondered why it's that verbose
[20:57] <kirkland> pitti: in the interest of paranoia, to let you know that your Private data is still mounted
[20:58] <kirkland> pitti: it's trivial to silence, if you think it's important
[20:58] <pitti> kirkland: not really important, just slightly confusing
[21:00] <kirkland> pitti: i'll silence it in an SRU, if we get complaints.  fair enough?
[21:00] <pitti> kirkland: changing it in jaunty sounds fine
[21:00] <kirkland> pitti: k
[21:00] <pitti> kirkland: I just wondered whether it was actually important, not mor
[21:01] <pitti> e
[21:01] <kirkland> pitti: k
[21:03] <lool> cjwatson: Eh thanks
[21:07] <pitti> zul: did you see my question about the bacula sru in bug 228693? also, is bug 227410 fixed in intrepid? (the current sru in the queue fixes it)
[21:14] <hwilde> Keybuk, ping
[21:15] <hwilde> Keybuk, if you see this,    http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m1fa35c42
[21:19] <pitti> seb128, kirkland: FYI, I opened gnome bug 558298 and will discuss it there with upstream
[21:19] <seb128> pitti: thanks, that's rather a glib thing though
[21:19] <pitti> seb128: oh, is it? sorry
[21:19] <kirkland> pitti: cool, thanks
[21:20] <seb128> pitti: gio gunixmounts.c in glib
[21:20] <hwilde> do the udev rules log anywhere ?
[21:20] <seb128> pitti: guess_system_internal() const char *ignore_fs[] = {
[21:20] <pitti> seb128: thanks, you rock
[21:21] <seb128> pitti: it's likely just adding the fstype to this table
[21:21] <seb128> pitti: you're welcome
[21:22] <Keybuk> hwilde: yes?
[21:23] <hwilde> Keybuk, if you look at my pastebin, my udev rules are matching two things but I don't see how that's possible
[21:23] <Keybuk> hwilde: there is insufficient information in your paste to determine whether or not that is correct or incorrect behaviour
[21:23] <Keybuk> udevinfo -a on each device would be a good start
[21:24] <hwilde> Keybuk, look closely
[21:24] <Keybuk> my proximity to my screen shouldn't matter
[21:24] <hwilde> it is creating two symlinks to the same ttyUSB2
[21:24] <hwilde> mastermodule -> ../ttyUSB2
[21:24] <hwilde> tug -> ../ttyUSB2
[21:24] <Keybuk> yes?
[21:24] <Keybuk> hwilde: there is insufficient information in your paste to determine whether or not that is correct or incorrect behaviour
[21:24] <hwilde> but the kerneles pci bus id are different
[21:24] <Keybuk> udevinfo -a on each device would be a good start
[21:24] <hwilde> KERNELS=="0000:00:1d.1"
[21:24] <hwilde> KERNELS=="0000:00:1d.0"
[21:24] <Keybuk> udevinfo -a on each device would be a good start
[21:24] <ion_> Also, udevinfo -a on each device would be a good start.
[21:25] <hwilde> I have all that information if you really want it
[21:25] <hwilde> the udev rules are setup right
[21:25] <hwilde> it's matching two somehow
[21:25] <Keybuk> I really want it
[21:25] <hwilde> it's like the uhci controller bus id is flipping :/
[21:26] <seb128> pitti: will you add a patch to the bug or should I? just having a trivial patch there might make easier to get an upstream comment ;-)
[21:26] <pitti> seb128: doing it right now
[21:26] <seb128> pitti: danke
[21:26] <pitti> and testing how it works
[21:26] <hwilde> here are the udevinfo -a -n for all the ttyUSBs    http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m360c9202
[21:27] <hwilde> Keybuk, here are the udevinfo -a -n for all the ttyUSBs    http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m360c9202
[21:27] <hwilde> Keybuk, here are the udev rules  http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m3fc26a62
[21:28] <hwilde> Keybuk, here are the resulting symlinks http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m188b0e58
[21:28] <hwilde> it works about 75% of the time, fails about 25% of the time
[21:29] <hwilde> when it fails it is assigning multiple symlinks to ttyUSB2, which I thought would be impossible based on the udev rules KERNELS=="0000:00:1d.1"  versus KERNELS=="0000:00:1d.0"
[21:31] <Keybuk> hwilde: no idea
[21:33] <Keybuk> I'm not sure you can match KERNELS twice like that
[21:37] <hwilde> Keybuk, http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m2a984c02
[21:37] <hwilde> I think my uhci is having irq conflicts and getting reassigned bus numbers 1-4
[21:38] <hwilde> usbs are freakin killin me
[21:42] <hwilde> Keybuk, good we're on the same side of the split
[21:42] <hwilde> Keybuk, any suggestions at all ?
[21:43] <Keybuk> hwilde: file a new bug about the invalid match
[21:43] <Keybuk> provide udevinfo -a and the various -q for each device
[21:43] <Keybuk> and udevtest output for each one
[21:43] <Keybuk> I'll look at it in a couple of weeks
[21:44] <hwilde> faq
[21:44] <hwilde> i'm going to fail 25% of reboots for a couple weeks
[21:44] <Keybuk> you can always debug it
[21:44] <Keybuk> patches more than welcome if you find it
[21:44] <Keybuk> might be worth talking to udev upstream
[21:44] <Keybuk> though he's just rewritten the rules matching
[21:45] <Keybuk> in particular, I'm not sure you can match KERNELS twice like you're doing there
[21:45] <Keybuk> I think it only takes one of the matches
[21:45] <elmo> why wouldn't apport be catching something sigseving?
[21:45] <hwilde> but I have to put both because the usb hubs get assigned random pci ids every reboot
[21:46] <zul> pitti: yep just havent gotten around to it
[21:46] <pitti> elmo: several reasons; (1) you are using current intrepid, where it's now disabled by default, (2) the affected program already has an unreported crash report pending, (3) the affected program crashed more than 3 times at a day, (4) bug
[21:47] <elmo> pitti: (1) then, I guess.  can I force it?  I want to report a bug about a repeatable crasher, and although I could do it byhand, I supsect apport provides more useful information
[21:47] <pitti> elmo: yes, you can enable it in /etc/default/apport (enable=1)
[21:48] <pitti> elmo: and afterwards /etc/init.d/apport start
[21:48] <pitti> elmo: we just generally disable it for stable releases by default, for various reasons
[21:48] <tedg> bryce: Do you still have a machine that can recreate bug 285323 ?
[21:52] <hwilde> Keybuk, http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/m2a984c02
[21:52] <hwilde> the uhci keeps getting assigned different bus ids 1 through 4
[21:53] <Keybuk> sure
[21:53] <Keybuk> ids aren't stable
[21:53] <elmo> pitti: cool, thanks, that worked
[21:53] <pitti> \o/
[21:55] <hwilde> Keybuk, so then I can't make udev rules off unstable ids :/
[21:55] <Keybuk> no
[21:55] <hwilde> Keybuk, well that pretty much ends that discussion
[21:56] <Keybuk> you have to find something that uniquely identifies each device
[21:57] <hwilde> why are hardware people allowed to crap out anything they want and expect the OS to work :*(
[21:57] <lamont> jdstrand: you aroudn?
[21:57] <jdstrand> lamont: yes
[21:57] <lamont> jdstrand: thoughts on 289060?
[21:57] <hwilde> Keybuk, thanks for confirming my fears that mashing the serial lines into usb was a bad idea
[21:58] <jdstrand> lamont: already on my todo list to fix right after release
[21:58] <bryce> tedg: yep
[21:58]  * lamont notes that the comment in 249824 about not having a CVS tree is a blatant lie
[21:58]  * lamont waits for git-cvsimport to finish running
[21:58] <jibel> Hi, could someone please sponsor request in bug 289603 . This fixes an upgrade issue of the package from hardy to intrepid. Thanks.
[22:00] <lamont> jdstrand: if that's the right change, I'll add it to my changes, and we can just package-n-upload when we're ready
[22:00] <jdstrand> lamont: I haven't tested it yet, but can and will get back to you. it certainly seems correct
[22:01] <tedg> tedg: Can you try something then?  The only thing that I can figure out is that GPM swallows the key in that case, I'm curious if GDK is holding into focus in that case.
[22:02] <tedg> bryce: ^^  Sorry, I was talking to myself ;)
[22:02] <tedg> bryce: Basically change src/gpm-button.c:100 from GDK_FILTER_REMOVE to GDK_FILTER_CONTINUE
[22:02] <lamont> sigh.  2 years into the 10 year cvs tree.  I think I'll find that patch for 249824 once I get home later tonight...
[22:03] <pgraner> pitti: ping
[22:08] <lamont> afk for a while then
[22:13] <kees> pitti: W: GPG error: http://ddebs.ubuntu.com intrepid Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG ECDCAD72428D7C01 Ubuntu Debug Symbol Archive Automatic Signing Key <ubuntu-archive@lists.ubuntu.com>
[22:34] <slangasek> superm1: anyone working on mythbuntu testing for final, specifically?
[22:34] <superm1> not until tonight, but yeah
[22:35] <superm1> (for jaunty we're going to be on the iso tracker website so it will be a little easier to track these things too)
[22:35] <slangasek> you're already on the iso tracker for intrepid
[22:35] <slangasek> so please use it, or you'll find me nagging you periodically :-)
[22:36] <superm1> oh we are? i didn't think we made the cut
[22:36] <superm1> yeah i'll point our guys at using that then, sorry!
[22:38] <stgraber> superm1: why did you think I was asking you to give me a list of testcase the other day ? :)
[22:39] <superm1> stgraber, see i thought that was all for jaunty stuff :)
[22:39] <stgraber> nope, I usually do a testcase update between beta and rc, that was it :)