[00:28] lool: that redirect is in place and seems to be working now; I guess the mirror just hadn't synced properly earlier [00:28] (ubuntu-mobile.* -> ubuntu-cmpc.*) [00:28] err umpc [02:12] I know this is not a support channel but I am trying to figure out why my vaio can't use the built-in microphone [02:12] can someone help me [02:12] ? [02:14] I am using intrepid [02:16] ytoox, You'll have much better luck in #ubuntu or #ubuntu+1 [02:18] ok === asac_ is now known as asac === spm_ is now known as spm [04:31] ugh the new hp netbook has a 1024x600 screen :\ [04:32] * calc was hoping it would be like their old model [04:35] Was that 1024x768? [04:35] From what I understand, 1024x600 glass became really cheap recently, which is why so much has that resolution at 7" and 9". [04:41] persia: it used to be 1280x768 [04:44] That's an unexpected resolution. I've seen lots of 1280x800 in the shops, but the last time I saw 1280x768 was on smoe Sony subnotebooks 5 years ago. [04:45] yea it is a bit odd for res most 1280 widescreen are 1280x800 [04:50] calc: wow.thatis worse than my laptop and it is bad [04:50] why do they think that tradingverticl for horizontal is a good idea? [04:53] I heard something about that the aspect ratios are an outcome of the manufacturing process [04:54] Burgundavia, It's good for watching movies : it's the attempt to demolish the haldheld DVD player segment. [04:55] persia: yes,and not much else [04:55] my screen isnot tall enough for inkscape [04:56] Burgundavia, Well, that's partly an issue with window management, and toolkit DPI-independence, but yes. [04:56] Personally, I've gotten quite used to using 640x480 for all sorts of things over the past several years, and for me 1024x600 is a big improvement, but that's for 4-5" screens, so a different use case. [04:58] * calc thinks persia has all the cool toys :-) [04:59] calc, Come visit. I'll take you to a shop. It's all retail, and most of it is subsidised if you get a 3G contract. You can get an Eee for 100 yen at some shops. [04:59] wow [05:00] hmm i don't think getting a contract in a country i don't live would work too well :) [05:01] Then you get the low-price contract : 1000 yen a month for two years. I suppose that's less good if you live in a country with inflation though. [05:01] yea [05:02] maybe eventually the US will catch up to Japan (maybe 50 years ;-) [05:02] calc, see what you should have done is jumped on a Sprint SERO plan while they were still easy to get on [05:03] if you haven't heard of them, i'd recommend you google and read a little bit about what you missed out on. probably a better discussion for #ubuntu-offtopic though [05:05] superm1: i meant more about getting cheap netbooks (etc) with a plan [05:05] calc, ah :) [05:05] or bandwidth in general, i can't get more than 3mbps from my telco :\ [05:05] the US is just behind all around :( [05:06] agreed [05:07] * Chipzz doesn't get why laptop manufactures think widescreen is a good idea in the first place [05:09] browsing for example is a horrible experience on widescreens imo [05:10] (having your eyes make horizontal movements all the time is not very convenient) [05:10] Chipzz, I find it much more pleasant to browse on widescreens in landscape mode. Just tell xrandr to rotate your screen to e.g. 600x1024, and you can read sensibly. [05:11] (which is why both A4 and American paper both are taller than wide - which makes perfect sense) [05:11] persia: that only works on a netbook though ;) [05:11] laptop I'm currently working on is too big for that [05:11] Chipzz, Well, actually it works better on tablets, convertibles, MIDs, PDAs, etc. netbooks tend to be awkward in landscape mode. [05:12] I was thinking about the OLPC ;) [05:13] That's a convertible, right? [05:13] not sure what you mean by convertible? [05:14] You can spin the screen, so use it in either laptop or tablet mode. [05:14] right. it is, afaik [05:15] works for good desktops too, just rotate your monitor [05:15] Depends on the desktop. Given a high-enough resolution, I'd rather look at two pages side-by-side. [05:16] calc: depends on if you can physically rotate your monitor I guess :) [05:16] Chipzz, What monitor can't be rotated? [05:16] Chipzz: yea [05:16] persia: cheap ones [05:16] * persia expects that a bit of electrical tape would fix that [05:16] persia: like physically rotating, ie putting on their side :P [05:16] persia: heh [05:16] if you physically rotate a crt bad things can happen [05:17] Chipzz, Right. The only reason I can imagine why it wouldn't work was for a CRT with a loose flyback cable. [05:17] it throws off the gun it seems (tried it once) [05:17] it worked fine when i put it back to normal [05:17] calc: lol :) [05:17] calc, That's a *very* cheap housing for the gun [05:18] persia: probably so it was a computer from 1994 that i tried it on [05:18] if you think about it, widescreens make very little sense. you loose vertical screen estate with title bars, menus, toolbars, status bars and panels [05:18] even some crt's were rotatable back in the day [05:18] Radius brand monitors in the US iirc [05:18] if /anything/, they should be making /tall/-screens [05:18] er i mean were able to be rotated by design [05:19] calc: I've seen a crt that was rotatable by design once [05:19] err [05:19] s/crt/lcd [05:19] calc, heh. That's different. I once completely furnished a house using mostly working VT100s at all angles. They still worked, but I'm sure that wasn't a design feature. [05:19] but they [05:19] but they're hardly common [05:20] http://cgi.ebay.com/Radius-15-Full-Page-Pivot-Monitor-Model-0320-RAD0320_W0QQitemZ350115394192QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116 [05:20] Chipzz, HP makes a number of good tall flatscreens. [05:20] I've at least played with their 1600x1024. [05:21] Err, 1024x1600 [05:21] i have a hp 23" 1920x1200 that can rotate [05:21] That's a lot of head bending. [05:23] anyway, I run firefox in fullscreen all the time. I gain about 25% to 35% vertical screen real estate that way [05:23] pretty sad actually that I have to do that [05:23] hrrrrm ok, little less maybe. but still [05:28] wow it does look like now its harder to find lcd's that can rotate [05:28] it used to be just about any high end one could rotate [05:28] the monitor i have original msrp was ~ $1500 [05:29] that's a lot of money for a monitor [05:29] I think most of the rotating demand is shifting to the mounted sort, with the emergence of the common backmount standard. The local monitor shops all have lots of mounts and stands on display. [05:30] Chipzz: i waited until LCDs got 'cheap' i was looking at them when they were > $5000 for 20" but couldn't afford them [05:30] Chipzz: i bought it refurb for $750 [05:30] persia: ah [05:31] the new HPs can still rotate though [05:31] hmm actually they can adjust all sorts of ways it seems [05:35] * TheMuso uses a monitor with a VESA mount stand on his desk. Gives a lot of movement, rotation, etc. [05:35] VESA mount. That's what it's called. Thank you. [05:36] Very good for work environments, allows me to move the monitor closer when I need it, and push it back when I don't, prevents me from leaning too far forward/back etc, and keep a good typing position. [05:39] Yeah. One of my recent customers was a bank, and they would give each new hire 9 VESA mounts and one screen : earning the other screens was part of the incentive program. [06:09] what a surprise, fedora's s-b-t/liboobs doesn't freak out with sha512 [06:10] kees: Ours does? [06:11] StevenK: yup -- it creates new users with 3DES since it doesn't see "md5" in the PAM configs any more. [06:11] StevenK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-tools-backends/+bug/287134 [06:11] Launchpad bug 287134 in system-tools-backends "users-admin sets up maximum 8 character password" [High,Confirmed] [06:12] Um, only High? [06:12] * slangasek grabs the s-t-b authors by the ear and holds a perfectly good spinny wheel in front of their eyes [06:13] and I can't figure out wtf liboobs is named in fedora [06:13] but then, there's nothing in s-t-b that doesn't make me weep [06:13] is the bug fixed that will let it race-condition your users out of existence? :P [06:17] well, that's easy -- Fedora just doesn't use that library. [06:18] good choice [06:18] why are *we* using it? :) [06:24] Good morning [06:25] slangasek: s-t-b race> yes, ages ago [06:25] kees: argh, I just tested it half an hour before I told you... [06:25] pitti: that's good; this is a good reason for it to have fallen off my radar, as opposed to it still lingering somewhere [06:26] Morning pitti [06:28] slangasek: was fixed in Nov 2007 (23_users_update_model.patch) [06:28] hey StevenK [06:28] kees: oh, I get "conflicting distribution" now; apparently the cronjob does something different than my manual building [06:29] kees: argh, silly me; forgot to pull my changes to macaroni [06:31] pitti: hmm, I think the bug I'm thinking of was later than that... [06:47] good morning [06:47] ribbit [06:49] * dholbach hugs slangasek [06:49] * slangasek hugs dholbach froggily [06:50] :) [06:52] A frog for an RM. How unfortunate. [06:53] depends. can it drink beer? [06:53] because if it can't, what do you pay it in? [06:54] The hearts of French chefs that like serving frogs legs [06:54] Hobbsee: greenbacks, duh [06:54] ah [06:59] persia, TheMuso: will there be a release announcement url on ubuntustudio.org that I can link to in the ubuntu-announce mail? [06:59] persia, TheMuso: hopefully something more detailed than the "it's out" blurb I see on http://ubuntustudio.org/news :-) [07:00] superm1: same question for you wrt mythbuntu [07:00] slangasek, yeah there will be [07:01] superm1: do you have a target url that I can prepopulate in the draft here? [07:01] slangasek, expect it at http://mythbuntu.org/8.10/release [07:02] ok, thanks [07:02] and will that page be live such that I can confirm it prior to pushing the button on the announce mail? [07:04] pgraner: oh, "pong" [07:05] slangasek, that depends on when that button is pushed.. we don't put the page live until all our mirrors catch up [07:05] hmm [07:05] how long does that take? [07:05] er well at least the big ones catch up [07:06] well we have to reroll our live disks in the morning, umenu broke on us [07:06] alternates are fine but we won't announce until the lives are ready [07:07] so maybe better to just leave us out of announce then for now if you are sending it out later today [07:13] slangasek, I think i might have come across something fairly bad in testing latest standard ubuntu DVD. would you be able to make a call on it with what should be done? (bug 290580) [07:13] Launchpad bug 290580 in oem-config "oem-config is not setting language on resultant user" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290580 [07:14] superm1: it's not going out later today, it's going out Thursday... :) [07:14] looking at the bug [07:14] hrm [07:15] oh yeah its wed not thur right now [07:15] kirkland: argh, my ~/Private dir broke [07:18] kirkland: apparently I changed my password yesterday, and then reset /etc/shadow to the old value (same password, but different encryption, I think sha256->md5); apparently that broke ecryptfs [07:18] kirkland: "keyctl_search: Required key not available" [07:25] morning [07:38] hi thekorn, lool, ara [07:38] hey dholbach, morning [07:41] hello dholbach [07:47] * NCommander is doing something insane [07:47] Oh? [07:47] Yes [07:47] insane [07:47] Going to UDS? [07:47] Beside that [07:47] * NCommander is debating if the kernel team will lynch or deepfry me ... [07:47] oh well [07:47] NCommander, oh! you're rewriting the kernel in Python too? [07:48] NCommander, should we collaborate? [07:48] liw, no, not python [07:57] PHP, with added backslashes? [07:57] calc: pong [08:15] Hi, is there any way to get a list of udeb packages in a repository? Packages[.gz|.bz2] does not seem to contain the info normally. [08:16] there's a separate Packages file under the debian-installer subdirectory [08:18] oof, but only if you use dak I imagine :-/ [08:19] how about a way to tell if a source only produces udeb packages? === macd_ is now known as macd [08:22] let me rephrase: if the source is in section: debian-installer, is it gauranteed to only produce udebs? [08:23] that's should be a valid assumption for the Debian and Ubuntu archives [08:24] slangasek: thank you :) === SWAT___ is now known as SWAT [09:02] slangasek: I don't have access to the site and am not involved with release notes. [09:02] TheMuso: ok; is there someone else you can point me to who does/is? === amitk is now known as amitk-afk === hunger_t is now known as hunger [09:09] slangasek: luisbg is doing English and a spanish translation, but that is all I know about who is doing what release notes wise. [09:10] luisbg: around? [09:33] superm1: still around? [09:33] superm1: evand and cjwatson are up now and looking at 290580 [09:56] how do I get around a bzr-error like: "Cannot lock LockDir(http://.../.bzr/branch/lock) : Transport operation not possible http does not support mkdir()"? [09:56] got that for "bzr commit somefile.txt" [09:56] MacSlow: you can't commit to http:// [09:56] MacSlow: if it's on launchpad, use bzr+ssh:// [09:57] if it's somebody else's branch, put your own branch on people.ubuntu.com or launchpad or so [09:58] pitti, well ok... but I just want to commit not push. [09:58] pitti, I thought a commit always works on my local branch [09:58] MacSlow: then apparently you used "checkout" instead of "branch" [09:58] MacSlow: use "bzr unbind", that should do [09:58] if bzr allows "checkout" on a http:// branch, I'd call that a bug, though [09:58] *sigh* [10:05] MacSlow: unbind worked? [10:11] bah, LP seems to be utterly slow today; I get lots of timeouts [10:12] <\sh> pitti: it's the weather ;) the fibers are depressed ,-) [10:16] pitti: use non-edge [10:16] \sh: it's not *that* cold yet in Germany that the data packets freeze inside the internet tubes and cause clogging :) [10:16] <\sh> geser: it's raining ;) that's enough to feel depressed;) [10:17] it's the fog! [10:17] packets can't see where they're going [10:17] \sh: can't confirm, clear sky here [10:18] hi, does anyone know about the status of the backports of php5.2. for dapper? [10:18] as can be seen here? https://bugs.launchpad.net/dapper-backports/+bug/78771 [10:18] Launchpad bug 78771 in dapper-backports "php5.2 backport request" [Undecided,Incomplete] [10:19] i could read THAT [10:19] ubottu: so, do you know wether this will be done in the next weeks? [10:19] Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [10:19] grml [10:19] ah ok [10:20] arj: Until someone does testing and says so in the bug, nothing will happen [10:20] !backports | arj [10:20] arj: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they may go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging [10:20] how do i test? [10:20] can I download and test the package somewhere? [10:20] If you read the link, it should give you some guidance on building packages to test. [10:20] ok thanks for your advice [10:21] seb128: works much better, yes; apparenlty packets fell off the edge [10:21] pitti: yeah, I was getting the same issue [10:22] non-edge works correctly [10:28] pitti: bzr checkout on an HTTP URL makes sense if you're using it readonly. [10:29] wgrant: hm; using "update" or "pull" isn't any difference in terms of efforts, but it's a bit more consistent for people who are used to checkouts, yes [10:31] <\sh> geser: karlsruhe, Rain, <10 Degrees C [10:32] and http isn't always readonly [10:32] james_w: True... but that's rare. [10:37] Hi folks - who is in charge of writing up the final release notes? I need to find out how best to include (or not) notes on the PS3 version. [10:38] munckfish: ubuntu-release collaboratively; you've already done the right thing by opening tasks on ubuntu-release-notes, but if you want to help further then propose text in those bug reports too [10:38] munckfish: we're going through the list today [10:41] I've gotten some feedback to the effect that many of the PS3 notes are not regressions over hardy, so it may not make sense to release note all the issues [10:41] cjwatson: I've drafted quite comprehensive PS3 specific notes on psubuntu.com's wiki http://psubuntu.com/wiki/IntrepidReleaseNotes [10:41] cjwatson: so may only need to refer to that doc from our official notes to save space - if you prefer? [10:41] perhaps it makes sense to hit the highlights and refer to that doc, yes [10:42] not to save space, but to not information-overload the users we're trying to get to read the release notes [10:42] slangasek: ye exactly [10:42] s/ye/yep/ [10:43] robbiew: ^- (since I was just mentioning this in person) [10:43] I'll try to get the notes the tidied up asap today and leave it to you guys to cherry pick the more important issues as you like [10:43] munckfish: that would be wonderful [10:44] munckfish: the installation stuck at 6% thing may be basically the same issue as bug 290234 [10:44] Launchpad bug 290234 in pkgsel "Intrepid: Netboot locks up at 2% installing the selected edubuntu desktop" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290234 [10:44] perhaps, anyway [10:44] I certainly think we could phrase that as "may seem to get stuck around this point depending on the installation mode" [10:44] cjwatson: ok noted === amitk-afk is now known as amitk [11:07] doko_: I've added a note on Cell development to the PS3 release notes: http://psubuntu.com/wiki/IntrepidReleaseNotes [11:08] I remember when I installed gcc-4.3-spu [11:08] It gave me the gcc-4.3-spu binary command [11:08] I had to install another package from universe [11:08] to get the symbolic link spu-gcc installed [11:08] I don't have my PS3 here [11:09] what's the name of that package in universe? gcc-spu? spu-gcc is the old Cell one right (aah confusing) [11:10] spu-gcc: /usr/bin/spu-gcc [11:11] Keybuk: do you see anything wrong with renaming /etc/rc0.d/S31umountnfs.sh to K31, and likewise S40umountfs to K40? [11:12] kees: the scripts only do stuff on "stop", so this looks like a packaging bug at first sight [11:12] but there might be something more delicate [11:12] Keybuk: (this is bug 42121, recently reopened) [11:12] Launchpad bug 42121 in sysvinit "Symlinks for umountnfs / sendsigs wrong: hang on shutdown / reboot" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42121 [11:13] kees: sorry, that was for Keybuk [11:14] pitti, so THAT'S to blame for my 3 minute shutdown time? [11:14] shmaybe [11:14] pitti: rc0 and rc6 are special, S scripts are called with "stop" always in those runlevels and the difference between S and K is solely one of ordering [11:14] slangasek: oh, ok; so it's not that then [11:15] pitti: and the ordering is very important for these scripts, though I don't think the current ordering is right either (c.f. bug reports against samba, about timeouts on reboot because the network goes away before umountnfs is called [11:15] ) [11:16] yes, bug 211631 [11:16] slangasek, yeah, that's the bunny. quite annoying [11:16] Launchpad bug 211631 in wpasupplicant "CIFS/SMBFS shares not unmounted before network is shut down" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/211631 [11:16] yes [11:16] hm, but then it should be correct; it first calls umountnfs, then networking, then umountfs [11:16] it's also a bug on the samba side; by that point the routing table should be down and it shouldn't take a timeout to tell that the server is gone [11:16] pitti: NetworkManager :P [11:16] directhex: thx I think it's more confusing than that actually, I just checked the gcc-defaults package and found my answer - the spu-gcc package is from the old Cell SDK, but gcc-spu package is a meta package which depends on gcc-4.3-spu and provides the /usr/bin/spu-gcc symlinks .... umm I think ;) [11:16] slangasek: oh, right [11:17] handy [11:17] pitti: previously, dhcdbd, though this part is obsolete now; but I think we're still getting the ordering wrong with NM in the shutdown case [11:19] slangasek: thanks muchly for the heads-up [11:20] sure [11:23] when does networkmanager drop connections? [11:24] possibly as soon as the desktop goes away [11:24] urgh [11:24] I'm not sure, though [11:24] hrm, ufw's shutdown script seems to be a bit earlier in the sequence than it ought [11:25] directhex: if it doesn't die earlier, I'm pretty sure S20sendsigs kills it... [11:26] which is before S31umountnfs.sh [11:26] slangasek, s' not ideal. [11:34] slangasek, perhaps the "easy" solution is fixing cifsmount et al so they can unmount immediately, even if connection is lost? at least make it a -o flag? [11:34] saves worrying about "what is killed when" [11:34] directhex: it's the kernel driver that needs to be fixed [11:35] munckfish: gcc-spu [11:35] and yes, this is a bug [11:35] sigh. kerneltastic [11:35] but having the network die before umountnfs is also a bug, it could cause data loss [11:36] well, yeah [11:36] doko_: thx [11:36] and depending on what's mounted where, it may be impossible to fix unless we can guarantee the network will be up when umount is called [11:37] if we'd default to sync mount nfs that wouldnt be a prob :) [11:38] ogra: a) there are other network filesystems, b) [11:38] heh [11:40] directhex: it's not possible to completely eliminate the risk of losing uncommitted data when the network goes unaway unexpectedly, just like it's not possible to eliminate the same risk of losing data that hasn't been flushed to disk yet when the power is cut; but issues that cause such data to be lost *as a matter of course* on shutdown are a bug :) [11:40] hm, no lustre support in umountnfs.sh? bah! === doko_ is now known as doko [12:05] shani, could you please join me in #ubuntu-ops [12:06] sure elkbuntu [12:18] slangasek: hi. saw your comment on ufw and shutdown order. I remember initially I had it not do anything on shutdown, but apparently for 0.12 I was talked into having it run a shutdown script. K39 seemed reasonable for hardy, but now there appears to have been some initscript shuffling :/ [12:19] jdstrand: K39 has always been earlier than the network itself is shut down [12:19] slangasek: yes, that wasn't the part I was thinking of [12:20] slangasek: I've never wanted to run 'stop'-- can you think of a reason why I should run 'stop' at all? [12:20] jdstrand: what does it actually need a shutdown script for? [12:20] jdstrand: heh [12:20] my notes are not illuminating [12:20] postinst: update-rc.d to stop the firewall in runlevels 0, 1 and 6 [12:20] jdstrand: I can think of reasons that an admin would want to run it by hand [12:21] ok, dude, but *why*? [12:21] er [12:21] debugging? [12:21] slangasek: that 'dude' was a 'dude' to me :P [12:21] oh [12:21] ok. :) [12:22] slangasek: I want 'stop' as part of the initscript, I just don't want in the shutdown process [12:22] that makes sense to me [12:22] slangasek: do you think that removing the link in an SRU is appropriate? [12:22] at the very least, if it's in the shutdown process it needs to be later [12:23] I think it would be; I'll take a second opinion from pitti on that [12:24] jdstrand: yes, having a shutdown script in rc1.d makes sense, but not in 0 or 6 [12:24] jdstrand: SRU> only if it can be shown to actually break stuff [12:24] yeah, I was just thinking 1 was good [12:24] jdstrand: SRU'ing it "just because", or for getting an 0.1 second shutdown speed improvement is not enough [12:24] heh, I think you mean s/break/not break/ :P [12:24] jdstrand: no, I did mean "break" [12:25] pitti: it's not to get a speed improvement, it's to avoid dropping the firewall before the network services have terminated [12:25] right [12:25] jdstrand: if shutting it down early causes bugs like hanging network connections, an SRU is okay (since the preinst code isn't particularly difficulat, and has lots of prior art) [12:25] oh, I see, K39ufw [12:26] jdstrand: shutting down ufw will go to an all-REJECT state then, not to an all-ACCEPT? (as is the default in Linux) [12:26] pitti: all-ACCEPT [12:26] so it should never have broken network connections [12:27] jdstrand: ah, so it's not about cutting connections, it's for providing full firewall coverage even during shutdown [12:27] well, it does flush... [12:27] pitti: exeactly [12:27] exactly [12:28] oh, it -F/-X'es, thus potentially breaking masquerading or so, but that shouldn't be an issue during shutdown either [12:28] since 2 seconds later the machine is down anywa [12:35] pitti: have you revised your opinion based on the 'full firewall coverage even during shutdown' or is this strictly jaunty material? [12:36] jdstrand: it's a corner case, but it'd be enough to convince me to accept it [12:36] pitti, jdstrand: eh, -F -X -- it doesn't do that on the nat table, does it? [12:36] jdstrand: nat> oh, right [12:37] jdstrand: but if we fix it, we shuold also move rc1.d/K39ufw to something like S80ufw (or drop rc1.d, too) [12:38] in practice it makes little difference, I think, since in single mode there aren't any network services running [12:38] slangasek: -F with no args, so all the chains [12:38] pitti: err, it would not be a change I would make in intrepid ;) [12:38] ah [12:38] jdstrand: that sounds like something that ufw shouldn't be doing :P [12:38] Keybuk: you mean killing the ufw rc.d links? [12:38] pitti: the umountnfs thing [12:39] Keybuk: ah, no, we settled that already (it's not a bug in the rc symlinks, but rather NetworkManager-ish [12:39] when in doubt, blame NM [12:40] jdstrand: i.e., I don't think ufw init scripts should ever be touching any chains other than its own; I would probably be quite upset if I had run into this by accident on a live system instead of finding out from you in conversation... [12:41] slangasek: right-- actually I mispoke [12:41] oh [12:41] phew :-) [12:41] slangasek: it does do -F without args, but -F does not clear the nat table [12:42] bryce, tjaalton: random question; intrepid-created xorg.conf looks purely boilerplate, just identifiers and no options; why do we still create one in the first place? [12:42] slangasek: we had the conversation before, and are in agreement [12:43] slangasek: I just forgot about -F without args for a moment [12:43] jdstrand: ok, so you agree it's a bug? Need a bug report? [12:44] slangasek: no, I agree with your philosophy on ufw touching things it shouldn't. it doesn't as implemented [12:44] jdstrand: if -F clears all chains in the default table, that means it clears any user-defined chains as well, though? [12:45] slangasek: ok, that would be a bug, if you have you're own chains. I was speaking of -t nat [12:45] right, I was speaking more generally - though I'm glad that the nat table is safe [12:45] slangasek: though, I'm not sure it is sane to clear some stuff from the default table, and not others, so maybe we are not in complete agreement here [12:46] I can envision some chains that it'd be fine, but others, perhaps not [12:48] I think clearing any chains that weren't created by ufw itself is the wrong model [12:48] it doesn't matter what's in those chains - they should be off-limits [12:50] slangasek: well, part of my TODO list in jaunty is reworking the initscript stuff, so I've added this to my todo list. we can talk about it another time [12:50] pitti: iirc there are some corner cases (e.g. running inside kvm) that get optoins set, but I'd need to look at dexconf to be certain though [12:50] jdstrand: ok [12:50] pitti: might be dropped for jaunty. it wasn't really considered for intrepid yet [12:51] tjaalton, sistpoty|work: ah, so it's just dexconf always writing out a skeleton, even if it doesn't have anything to configure? [12:51] pitti: yes, those corner-cases should be dealt also in the postinst if there would be no xorg.conf by default [12:52] Hi [12:52] who is in charge of building iso ? [12:53] pitti, for me the resolution applet still adds the virtual option if i run in two display mode with a merged screen [12:53] ogra: yes, that's fine; but python-xkit should cope and just create one if there isn't one [12:53] pitti, and i think that virtual thing is still needed ... which means you need an xorg,.conf [12:53] right [12:53] kagou: I am; is something wrong? [12:54] no non slangasek, === LucidFox_ is now known as LucidFox === LucidFox is now known as Happiness [13:14] mvo: didnt we fix 240736 ? [13:21] bryce: working on release notes and was wondering if you could write one for bug #290156: ""Display out of range" after upgrade to Intrepid" [13:21] Launchpad bug 290156 in xorg-server ""Display out of range" after upgrade to Intrepid" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290156 [13:22] pitti: hmm, let me grab a coffee and debug this [13:22] Are the final images spun yet? I've got three systems here with 100mbit connections that I can enslave towards seeding. [13:23] can someone explain me the latest change on the kernel related to the atheros driver ? I am using the current build cd, the live cd properly configured my ath0 device, the installed system does not [13:23] is the livecd kernel/modules expected to be different from the target install ? [13:29] pitti: oh, way, you manually munged /etc/shadow? if so, that would definitely break matters [13:30] pitti: the pam_ecryptfs.so module should be in the common-password stack, and when called as part of running "passwd", should handle matters for you [13:30] pitti: you can manually recover by running ecryptfs-rewrap-passphrase [13:30] pitti: or individually running ecryptfs-unwrap-passphrase and ecryptfs-wrap-passphrase === Happiness is now known as Roleplaying [13:34] anyone suffering from Launchpad slowness and timeouts on bug pages, visit https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/290668 and disable edge redirection as a workaround [13:34] Launchpad bug 290668 in malone "Bug page timing out; suspect slow query on ValidPersonCache" [High,In progress] [13:35] mdz: edge timeout a lot today [13:35] joaopinto: they are identical [13:35] mdz: non-edge works correctly [13:36] seb128: right, that's what I've put in the bug now [13:36] mdz: I misread what you wrote as a question but that was a suggestion so ignore my comment ;-) [13:37] jdong: you should know by now that we don't answer that kind of question :-) Feel free to seed if you have capacity but it is always possible that we'll have to respin [13:38]