Eeyore-Jrare there people that program childrens games here?00:01
Eeyore-Jrwill ltsp build in a virtualbox vm ?00:04
RidehEeyore-Jr: i'm trying that myself00:05
Ridehsetting up thindesk example in vm00:06
Eeyore-Jri need to do some serious setup and testing before doing it on the real thing00:06
Ridehi don't yet know if its possible, although I dont really see why not00:06
ograEeyore-Jr, if you create the vbox with two NICs, one internal and one NAT you can even create a client in a second vm that connects to the internal network of the server vm00:07
ograthat how we do a lot of deveolpment and testing in ltsp00:08
Ridehogra: i currently have a setup like that, primary nic is bridged, second is on a team segment all the client guests are then on the team segment with it00:08
Ridehogra: i do have a question regarding deployment of edubuntu workstation installs00:09
ogramake sure tonot have a soundcard configured on the server, then you even can test the client sound00:09
RidehI've created a more typical server to act as nat,dhcp, nfs (home drive), openldap etc. i then have the client workstations configured as I'd like them.  This is a mock environment and I'd like to test reloading the workstations via PXE.  I do have a pxe / pxe server functioning but right now it just provides netboot leaving the client pxe guest to do a net install which involves a lot of...00:10
Rideh...interaction etc.00:10
RidehI would like to make an image of the properly configured edubuntu workstation and then provide the ability to just write an image to a machine that is new / damaged.00:11
Ridehany tips?00:11
ograwell, that will require fiddling00:11
ograbut you could for example creare an image with clonezilla00:12
ograthat should be possible to deploy in such an environemnt00:12
Ridehi assume i'd have to delete the /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules and modify the hostnames00:13
ograbut thats scriptable00:13
Ridehis there a way i can provide the hostnames in a differnt manner than using a script on the client machine?00:13
ograas i said fiddling :)00:13
Ridehi dont mind, i'm just trying to find the best solution00:13
ograyou could just deploy then via dhcp00:14
Ridehcan you explain that?00:14
ograbut that indeed requires a big dhcpd.conf00:14
Ridehah so i can do it all from within dchpd3?00:14
ogradhcp3-server allows that you can declare hostnames in the dhcpd.conf00:14
Ridehok i'll read into that i wasnt aware of that00:14
ograand dhclient can use that to seed your hostname ...00:15
ograanother option would be to use dnsmasq00:15
ograthat uses a single config for dhcp, dns and tftp afaik00:15
ograi have no experience with it though, bu  know many people in #ltsp that use it00:16
Rideh1 more question then. for educators ldap is kinda scary. What is the cleanest(simplest) way for them to add / modify entries in openldap?00:16
Ridehmyphpldapadmin, webmin both seem kinda flaky. someone recommended apache directory00:17
ograhuh, i'm an ldap hater myself :)00:17
Ridehand i appreciate all of your input00:17
Ridehhow do you handle it then?00:17
ograbest to ask in #ubuntu-server00:17
ograthere are some ldap experts00:17
ograi dont touch it :)00:17
Ridehyea i've been hanging out in #openldap also00:17
Ridehhow do you handle users? NIS? or jus tstick to the ltsp?00:18
Rideh*just stick00:18
ograup to 100 users i'D rather rsync /etc/passwd and group between the machines than using ldap00:18
ograno, NIS is simply insecure00:18
ograrsync over ssh and multiple ltsp servers would be what i'd use00:19
Ridehyea i'm looking at a school looking at implementing edubuntu. they have k-12 and as they move up obviously their requirements change moving from a ltps -> individual workstation type environment I was hoping to give them a nice way to migrate their students all the way through00:20
ograstgraber could likely give you some hints about big setups if he wouldnt be busy with iso tests for the release tomorrow :)00:20
Ridehbut i suppose that could work too00:20
ograhow many students ?00:20
Ridehenrollment right now is about 60 per grade00:21
ograand how many grades ?00:21
Ridehso 750ish00:21
Ridehalthough that might increase if enrollment goes up00:22
ograok, that rather justifies ldap00:22
Ridehyea the more i muck with ldap the more i loathe it00:22
stgraberis that ltsp ? (sorry just saw ogra's hilight, haven't read the backlog)00:22
Ridehstgraber: its going to be a hybrid i think00:22
ograstgraber, mixed setup00:23
Ridehit all depends on what the school desides to do00:23
Ridehi want to offer a few differnt solutions and help them pick the best for their environment00:23
stgraberhmm, ok. Then you won't only need LDAP but also some configuration management system00:23
Ridehstgraber: agreed00:24
Ridehwhat do you have in mind?00:24
Ridehi believe the lab setups are going to be somewhat easy.. 20-40 machines, 4 labs to start with. first 3 labs will be ltsp, last lab will be workstations.00:25
Ridehi'll have another server sitting somewhere to act as fileserver for the homes and ldap server for the whole shebang00:25
stgraberdo you plan in-classroom installation, in-school or in-schooldistrict ?00:25
stgraberas in, where do you plan to put the servers ?00:25
Ridehschool, 4 labs servers in a centralized locations00:26
Ridehalthough for the the ltsp, i might have each of thier server(s) within the computer lab itself00:26
Ridehi'm open to input on how to best approach this00:27
Ridehmy boss is wanting us to use this project as an opportunity to get the formula together to then present to other environments. So the more flexible / open ended i can make it now will help out in the future00:28
stgraberdoes the school district already has an existing IT infrastructure (novell, microsoft, ...) that you'll need to integrate with ?00:28
RidehMicrosoft with AD00:28
Ridehcurrently each classroom has 1 pc for the teachers use that are windows00:28
stgraberok, so you don't need a LDAP server, you need to integrate with the AD00:28
Ridehif this lab works out well, we could very well look at replacing their entire infrastructure00:28
ograpoor teachers00:28
ograand the kids get sexy linux ?00:29
stgraberogra: most of the schools we manage are Novell-based, believe me, I'd like to see some AD :)00:29
Ridehyea i've worked with novell in a prior school mixed with appletalk00:29
Ridehthat sucked00:29
ograstgraber, but leaving the teachers with windows while the students have the advanced tech is mean00:29
Ridehwell the way this project is starting is they want to see it work.  which means first bit is a single lab00:30
stgraberogra: a school district we half-manage (we do the server side) does the same but they have iTalc on the Windows computers and in the end the teachers spend a good part of their time using Linux, just not theirs :)00:30
Ridehwe go in, get one lab setup and working they test it out work the kinks out then deploy further labs. once it goes that far hopefully we can look at reworking the whole infrastructure00:30
stgraberRideh: btw, where is that ?00:31
Rideha private school in indianapolis00:31
Ridehi cant give away more details :P00:31
stgraberoh, do you know inAccess and the one-to-one program then ? :)00:31
Ridehum. i'm not familiar with that myself00:31
Ridehare you in indy too?00:32
stgraberno, but our biggest US customer is in Indiana00:32
Ridehoh nice, yea i see the indiana open-source experiment00:33
Ridehbiggest linux rollout in K-12  history00:34
stgraberyep, I'm working a bit with MCAS (Michigan City), they are doing Linux one-to-one classrooms (Ubuntu based) with desktop computers and may go with some thin clients soon (can't say much more)00:34
Ridehsure i understand00:35
Ridehwhere are you based?00:35
stgraberQuebec, Canada00:35
stgraberWe are developping ltsp-cluster and doing infrastructure design/implementation mainly for school districts in Canada and in the US00:36
Ridehthats great00:37
Ridehso the ltsp cluster, your doing the model of one ltsp server with supplimental client host servers?  or something differnt00:39
LaserJockrockstar: around?00:40
stgraberltsp-cluster is load-balanced LTSP, so we have multiple application servers00:40
stgraberso when a client boots, it gets its configuration from a central place, then is given an application server00:40
stgraberthe configuration on the application server is synced, so we can reinstall a server or add one in less than an hour00:41
Ridehstgraber: sure, ok i used the wrong terminology.00:41
stgraberif a server goes down, it's simply removed from the pool00:41
Ridehwhat happens if the primary server goes down?00:41
stgraberwe don't have a primary server00:41
stgraberthe load-balancer, the control center and the boot server can be put on high availability00:41
stgraberso we can run two of all of them and switching to the backup one if something breaks00:42
stgraberonly point of failure at the moment is the authentication/data storage that often we don't manage ourself (using AD/Novell and some SAN (Novell or similar))00:43
stgraberwhat happens if ldap or the SAN goes down is switching all the clients to autologin mode00:43
stgraberso they don't have their user session but can still surf the internet and use the thin client as normal00:43
Ridehthat is definatly not a built in configuration out of the box ;)00:44
stgraberwell, we have a demonstration server that has everything setup in one box, of course load balancing and high availability don't quite work in that case :)00:45
Ridehhow do you make the boot server high avail?00:45
ograwait a while, it might become one :)00:45
stgraberbut the box can handle 40-50 thin clients00:45
stgraberwe have two boxes running: DHCP, TFTP and NBD (well, NFS at the moment but we are moving to NBD)00:46
stgraberwe let DHCP handle the sync for the DHCP part (it does that quite well) and for the other services we either simply rsync or using drbd (we try to avoid that :))00:46
Ridehin that environment can a teacher still control all the pc's in a particular lab and view the desktops and all even if its initially off a differnt boot server (i'm assuming yes because once it goes to a session server its the same as anything else)00:47
ograitalc doesnt care about the server00:47
Ridehhow does italc know what machines are within its control?00:48
stgraberthe control center tracks who is connected where, the teacher can then start iTalc, it'll retrieve the list of all computers in the classroom and let the teacher control them00:48
ograavahi ... IPs00:48
Ridehand it can run from any client as long as the user has proper permissions?00:48
stgraberogra: nope, we don't use avahi for big deployments. We just interogate our servers :)00:48
stgraberRideh: yes00:48
Ridehthis is really good info thanks btw00:48
stgraberogra: avahi doesn't work well in all cases as it uses broadcast. works well for small setup though00:49
ograyeah, i can imagine00:49
Ridehso how do you move control center to its own machine?00:49
Ridehand what services is it actually providing?00:49
stgraberour control center tracks all the thin clients, it knows when they are booting and when a session is opened (and who's connected on it). It also provides an easy way of creating custom lts.conf for thin clients00:50
Ridehis this a proprietary piece of software you've created?00:50
stgraberso you can set part of your network as autologin, another part as RDP on a Windows terminal server and another as standard thin clients00:50
stgraberRideh: nope, all is opensource00:51
Ridehwell i guess i should get cracking on my thinclient setup so i can start learning all of this first hand00:51
Ridehi just my workstation model almost done.   its a lot to absorb00:52
stgraber(of course my company sells support for that, providing custom developments, setting up the network, teaching the sysadmins and doing the major upgrades)00:53
stgraberour current development focus is on local applications, we now have skype, firefox, blender and some other multimedia sofwares running as local applications on powerful thin clients00:53
stgraberand we are also developping NX access to the servers00:53
stgraberso a student gets access to the same environment when he's back at home00:54
stgraber(connecting to the same application servers and using the same load balanced setup)00:54
Ridehnice, if you dont mind i'd like to get your contact information00:54
LaserJockogra: hi00:54
Ridehthis project might at some point get out of scope for me and i'll need to bring in big guns00:54
ograLaserJock, hey00:54
LaserJockogra: how's it going?00:55
ogramassively tired00:55
LaserJockI bet00:55
ograbut i still have one umpc image test ahead00:55
ograLaserJock, and you ?00:55
LaserJockogra: tired, busy, the usual00:56
RidehThanks Ogra & stgraber   i'm heading out for the night01:03
stgrabernp, see you01:03
Eeyore-Jrk, last set of questions.  does ltsp allow pluggin in usb devices, use of zip drives, floppy drives, etc.01:23
stgraberusb devices yes (mass storage, printer and scanner (soon)), zip I think so but never tried, floppy I haven't tested for a while but it should too01:24
Eeyore-Jrneat, scanner support is a good thing for me.  is there a way to "network" a printer from a thin client?01:25
Eeyore-Jrmy space is limited01:25
Eeyore-Jrprinter attached to a thin client01:26
stgraberyes, we have jetpipe for that01:26
* Eeyore-Jr will be glad when week is done01:27
* ogra too 01:28
Eeyore-Jrare linksys switches better or hp ?01:28
Eeyore-Jri was talking to someone using opengeu.  it appears i can sudo aptitude that desktop.  i assume this will work for ltsp.  e is much light weight for a desktop and may help me use "older" machines01:49
Eeyore-Jrwow, xubuntu alternate just crashed in the vbox vm01:50
Eeyore-Jrwon't install01:50
Eeyore-Jrcan we run skype?01:51
=== highvolt1ge is now known as highvoltage
komp15hi all09:13
komp15i'm from indonesia09:13
komp15use edubutu since 2006th09:13
highvoltagehu RichEd- and ogra11:05
highvoltagehi, even11:05
ograhe ?11:06
highvoltageanything that needs to be done for edubuntu regarding release anouncement?11:06
highvoltagethere's no panic anywhere, so I just assume everything is under control :)11:07
* ogra didnt do anything this cycle with edubuntu11:08
ograso i cant say much11:08
ograbut since there is a CD it would likely be good to have some kind of referrer to it ... though the contents of such a message lie in RichEd-'s hands11:09
highvoltageok, so if someone asks, there's basically an updated version of the edu stuff on the add-on cd?11:09
ograi know Nubae is actively doing stuff on the download page atm11:09
RichEd-hi highvoltage ...11:09
highvoltageok cool11:09
ograright, though i dont know what LaserJock changed wrt CD content11:10
ograhe cared for seeds and metapackages11:10
RichEd-we'll just refer to the general Ubuntu release ... can you just draft a little news link for 8.10 and point to the main release ?11:11
RichEd-ogra: regarding the [1] CD iso and location and [2] how to install (i.e. start with Ubuntu) ... can you send me the rough text info ?11:11
ograerr, its the same as the releases before ?11:12
ografor workstation you just leave out the ltsp bits11:13
RichEd-email or /msg11:13
RichEd-i'll format it neatly for www.ubuntu.com and highvoltage can take my text and duplicate it on edubuntu.org11:13
highvoltageor Nubae even11:13
ograright, just take that text11:13
stgraberhey RichEd-11:13
ograi have to care for two other announcements for mobile11:13
stgraberonly changes from my side is better, more stable and avahi-aware iTalc11:14
=== RichEd- is now known as RichEd
=== Guest13556 is now known as Basti_dash
sbalneavMorning all13:25
highvoltagemorning uncle scott13:42
NubaeRichEd: u there?14:09
* RichEd waves to Nubae from the Bottom of Africa14:25
Nubaehi RichEd :-) I've prepared the main download page for 8.10, are the release notes available yet?14:28
Nubaethere's also a bit of confusion on the older hardy page, which shows hardy being supported for 18 months (which ogra explained to me is due to the addon-cd component) Further down, though there is still a link for dapper drake (supported till 2009)14:31
NubaeSo either dapper isn't really supported (edubuntu that is) anymore, or we have to say hardy is supported until 201114:32
Nubaewhacha think?14:32
ogradapper edubuntu *was* LTS14:35
ograhardy wasnt14:35
Nubaethat causes a bit of weirdness then, because on the new download page, I have dapper as a supported previous LTS, but not 8.0414:39
ograwell, you could probably drop dapper and just ignore it for its last 6 months14:41
Nubaeand not mention 8.04 either?14:42
ogramention 8.04 indeed14:43
Nubaeok, cool thanks14:43
RichEdNubae: the release notes will point to Ubuntu release notes ...14:51
Nubaeah ok14:57
NubaeRichEd: how about the release notes on the top of the main page and the get your 8.04.1 here?15:04
pips1Nubae: thanks again for helping out... sorry I don't have time. :-( I now need to go to collect my son from day care... all the best, cu!15:42
pips1RichEd: good luck with getting everything out the door!15:42
Nubaepips1: no problem, just one quick question15:42
pips1Have a nice release day!! :-)15:42
Nubaerelease anouncement on top, is a graphic15:42
Nubaeshould I make a new one?15:42
pips1I created a new one, but unfortunately, it won't show... I'm at a loss of why it doesn't show. :-/15:43
Nubaeso u edited top banner?15:43
pips1also, I have migrated to a new laptop and I forgot to take my gpg personal key with me.. the consequence is now that I can't logon to the server via ssh to check the filesystem permissions for that image15:44
Nubaebanner-right-release.jpg - thats the image? did u just overwrite it or put in a new link?15:44
Nubaecan u upload with a different name?15:44
Nubaeand we can link to that insteaed?15:44
pips1no, I uploaded a new image to a "dummy" node and tried linking to that one instead but no go15:44
Nubaewell, dont worry I'll do my best to get it working15:45
RichEdpips1: thanks15:48
RichEdNubae: I'm back ...15:48
NubaeRichEd: ok cool...15:50
pips1good luck guys, got to run..15:54
Nubaeright edubuntu site updated... hope it's ok...16:59
RichEdNubae: thanks ... I've just fnished the www.ubuntu,com pages17:44
Nubaewasnt too much to do on edubuntu.org :-)17:48
RichEdsee what you think17:50
* RichEd has to go offline now ... will try to pop back in later17:50
Nubaebye RichEd17:50
Mip5Hi folks - I just installed ltsp on a server18:12
Mip5and booted my first client - it appeared to work, but hang with a blinking cursor in the uppper left hand corner of the screen18:13
Nubaesounds like a graphics problem on the client, what graphics card u using?18:14
Mip5tail -f /var/log/syslog shows:18:15
Mip5Oct 30 12:04:22 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPDISCOVER from 00:17:31:cb:0b:92 via eth118:15
Mip5Oct 30 12:04:23 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPOFFER on to 00:17:31:cb:0b:92 via eth118:15
Mip5Oct 30 12:04:24 unionltsp dhcpd: Wrote 1 leases to leases file.18:15
Mip5Oct 30 12:04:24 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPREQUEST for ( from 00:17:31:cb:0b:92 via eth118:16
Mip5Oct 30 12:04:24 unionltsp dhcpd: DHCPACK on to 00:17:31:cb:0b:92 via eth118:16
Mip5Oct 30 12:04:25 unionltsp in.tftpd[15942]: tftp: client does not accept options18:16
Mip5It's actually a pretty decent machine - boots the live cd fine, and runs ubuntu hardy (fine) when not testing the pxe boot offered by ltsp - let me check on the graphics card18:17
LnsMip5: you need to look at the xorg logs on the TC18:26
Eeyore-Jrshould i be running in 64bit mode for ltsp server ?18:26
LnsMip5: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/ClientTroubleshooting18:27
LaserJockso it looks like maybe we should get a discussion on edubuntu.org going (epic FAIL on my part as I didn't send out an email)18:27
LnsEeyore-Jr: you can, there are some issues with running Adobe Flash and a couple other things though18:27
Eeyore-JrNubae: i downloaded your script for fat clients, but was unsure how to tell the server which client was fat?  i assume by mac address, what file needs to be modified for this?18:27
Nubaetake a look at the entry in wiki.nubae.com18:28
Eeyore-JrLns, guess i'll stick to 32 bit mode then18:28
Nubaeoops, www.nubae.com18:28
LaserJockNubae and Lns: you going to make the IRC meeting next week?18:28
NubaeLaserJock: I guess so18:28
Eeyore-Jri'd like to make the meeting, however, i'll be on vacation :)18:28
LnsLaserJock: it's in my sunbird, yes =)18:28
LaserJockNubae: I noticed you at least got us somewhat updated for 8.10, thanks18:29
Nubaeheh, Im working on it still, but yeah the release notes and download pages have been updated18:29
LaserJockthe new download page I was shooting for didn't land so we're apparently on our own there18:29
Nubaenew download page?18:29
LaserJockNubae: I was working on getting us an ubuntu.com style download page18:30
Nubaeoh yeah that would be nice...18:30
LaserJockfor Jaunty I guess18:31
LaserJockor maybe we can get it set up for Intrepid later on18:31
Eeyore-Jr       host fatclient1 {18:31
Eeyore-Jr                hardware ethernet  the:thin:client:mac:add:ress;18:31
Eeyore-Jr                fixed-address;18:31
Eeyore-Jr                }18:31
LaserJockbut the current download page really needs to go18:31
LaserJockit's just way too much info to throw at people18:31
Eeyore-Jrso, i'd assume that putting the mac address into the "thin client mac address" will make it a fat client18:31
NubaeEeyore-Jr: right18:32
Eeyore-Jrthx.  now i just need the last piece of the puzzle to make it all work18:32
Eeyore-Jrwhich is stgraber's conf18:32
NubaeLaserJock: we discuss that at the irc meeting or do u think I should edit that now?18:33
LaserJockwell, it might need some discussion18:33
rockstarLaserJock, you were looking for me last night?18:35
Mip5Forgive me - I'm not sure how to post this continuation to the previous thread about the graphics card on my thin client. It's an ASUS M2NPV-VM  mobo - nVidia’s GeForce 615018:35
LaserJockrockstar: yeah, just wanted to say hi really18:35
rockstarLaserJock, oh, hi.  :)18:36
LaserJockrockstar: noticed you joined edubuntu-bugsquad and via identi.ca noticed you're wanting to get involved with MOTU some18:36
rockstarLaserJock, yeah, my mom thought it would be a good idea to schedule a meeting with my former superintendent about using open source stuff.  I got an email about it last night.18:37
rockstarSo I guess I'm meeting with him, thought it was as good a time as any to take another swing at MOTU.18:37
rockstarUnfortunately, I've been in London the last two weeks, so I'm constantly tired, and rather busy during the day.18:37
rockstarThe good news is that I don't really need to learn to use Launchpad...18:38
LaserJockif you need anything let me know, I've been a MOTU for a while now and know a few tricks of the trade ;-)18:38
Mip5LNS - I'll follow the link and take a look at the logs and see what I see. Thanks for the help!18:39
LnsMip5: no prob. =)18:41
Eeyore-JrMip5: i'm having the same problem with the same mobo graphics chip18:41
Mip5LNS - there's still no login prompt. Machine is still hanging. BTW - Should nbd-server be running (I would think so, but it appears not to be). Also, there's no config in /etc/nbd-server/19:19
Nubaedid u get ltsp-server-standalone or ltsp-server?19:23
Mip5ltsp-server - I think.19:24
Mip5I booted from the alternate cd, hit F4 and selected ltsp server19:24
=== ogra changed the topic of #edubuntu to: LTSP Triage Day: Sept. 17th, see http://tinyurl.com/55pfcj || Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | 8.10 (intrepid ibex) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
ograNubae, when was the meeting ?19:25
Nubaelet me double check19:25
ograhmm. the ltsp triage day can go as well i guess19:25
ograpfft, feel free :)19:25
LaserJockogra: the meeting is the 5th at 18:00 UTC19:29
Mip5Well - I still can't log into the TC, would the logs in the chrooted environment be useful?19:34
Mip5Selecting previously deselected package base-files.19:35
Mip5(Reading database ... 0 files and directories currently installed.)19:35
Mip5Unpacking base-files (from .../base-files_4.0.1ubuntu5.8.04.2_i386.deb) ...19:35
Mip5Selecting previously deselected package base-passwd.19:35
Mip5Unpacking base-passwd (from .../base-passwd_3.5.16_i386.deb) ...19:35
Mip5dpkg: base-passwd: dependency problems, but configuring anyway as you request:19:36
Mip5 base-passwd depends on libc6 (>= 2.6.1-1); however:19:36
ograMip5, what kind of machine is the server =19:36
Mip5  Package libc6 is not installed.19:36
Mip5It's a dual cpu xeon (3.0 Ghz) w/ 4gb ram. I've run the install using RAID 1 on scsi disks19:36
ogra(you should use update-manager for such stuff, it sets the necessary switches if any are needed)19:37
Mip5That is how I updated it19:37
ogralibc6 is definately installed, is that an upgraded machine ?19:37
ograor a fresh install19:37
Mip5Fresh install as of this morning - 8.04.1 alternate - F4 ltsp option19:38
ograah, i thought intrepid (it released today)19:38
ograwas wondering about the old libc6 version :)19:38
Mip5Sorry - I wanted to go for the long term support -19:39
ograthat looks like you might not have all security updates there yet19:39
Mip5Strange - I thought I got all the updates after the install - let me look again19:39
ograbut anyway, for your graphics card prob, create /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/i386/lts.conf19:39
ograadd the following two lines:19:40
ograand see if that gets you to the graphical login19:40
=== Nubae changed the topic of #edubuntu to: Edubuntu IRC Meeting: Nov. 5th, 18.00 UTC || Order: http://shipit.edubuntu.org || Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu || http://www.edubuntu.org | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuWiki | MEETING: every Wednesday see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuMeetingAgenda | 8.10 (intrepid ibex) is released, see http://www.edubuntu.org/Download
Mip5looking at the messages as they scroll by, the machine stops with eth0 down - though the link light is on and blinking19:51
Mip5So - the TC client messages stop at eth0 link down - I'm not sure why that's happening during the bootup pocess.19:57
Nubae The first Enterprise release is Edubuntu 6.06, due for launch in June. <--- lol19:58
Mip5a little while back - I said that I had run the updates - I got the message to do from the desktop after the install. I just looked at my sources.list and saw that only the cd was enabled (the install didn't prompt me for it)20:10
Nubaedisable the cd and enable universe, and multiverse20:12
Nubaethen apt-get update and upgrade and see if that makes a difference20:12
Mip5cool - I wasn't sure which sources were the best. I'll do that.20:14
NubaeLaserJock: u still there?20:20
Mip5are these the only ones I need then:20:22
Mip5deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-security main20:22
Mip5deb http://ubuntu.osuosl.org/ubuntu/ hardy universe multiverse20:22
Nubaeyou need main, universe and multiverse in both hardy and hardy-security, and hardy-updates and hardy-backports wouldn't be bad either20:25
Mip5Sorry - I'm really a dope! I was looking at the chrooted sources.list, not the real ones. The real ones were in there.20:26
Mip5All of those are in there (except backports), and running aptitude and then update shows no new updates. I'll add the backports.20:30
ogratry the Software preferences from the menu instead of hacking around in your sources.list20:33
ograits just some checkboxes ... no need to care for more20:33
Mip5Good idea - I'll do that.20:34
ograit makes sense to copy your sources.list over if its proper on the server sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list20:34
ograthen run sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386 apt-get update20:35
Nubaeyeah bad habits die hard... I think I'm still scared of the update manager20:37
ograright, but if you have an empty sources.list thats the eaiest way to recover the entries ;)20:38
Nubaedon't u think there should be an edubuntu.org page with a download of the logo and other artwork?20:39
ograi think thats on the ubuntu wiki already20:39
ogra"do your own marketing" or some such20:39
Nubaeis wiki.edubuntu.org linked to wiki.ubuntu.org somehow?20:43
Nubaeah it is... never mind20:43
ograits the same wiki20:47
Nubaeone last question... since ltsp-server in 8.04 is in the base, its supported for 36 months?20:50
ograltsp != edubuntu :)20:57
ograthats the main reason it was moved to the ubuntu CD20:57
ograto show its support state20:58
Nubaebut is classroom server edubuntu? :p20:58
ograthe edubuntu apps are, yes20:58
ograthe ubuntu below no20:58
Nubaeok, think I've reflected it correctly now, basically added explanation of which parts are supported for how long20:58
Mip5Sorry gang - I've (sadly) been pulled away from this task by downed network in another building. I'll have to get to back to this tomorrow20:59
ograwe're here20:59
Mip5I did cp the sources.list from the good copy to the chrooted environment, and am updating it inside that environment21:00
TrailbrainI'm trying to upgrade to 8.10....  It doesn't find the right files on the update manager....  What do I need to do?21:02
TrailbrainDoes the 8.10 update apply to edubuntu?21:04
NubaeTrailbrain: yes21:04
Nubaealthough most files will be the ubuntu base, with the educational parts being edubuntu21:05
TrailbrainOk, then how come it's not finding the updates?21:05
TrailbrainAm I broken?21:05
Trailbrainsys-admin-update manager21:05
Nubaeyou've gotu did a dist-upgrade?21:06
TrailbrainDoesn't update manager work on this sort of thing?  I'm downloading the ISO, but would rather not have to burn another disk21:06
NubaeI'm not too familiar with the guis, I upgraded from the command line21:06
TrailbrainThat's cool--how?21:06
Nubaesudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade21:07
Trailbrainsudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade21:07
Trailbrain0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.21:08
ograhave you read that ?21:08
ogra*DONT* use dist-upgrade21:08
Nubaeoh :-)21:09
TrailbrainNope.  My google searches don't usually find me the right stuff--so I come here where the smart people are21:09
ograits untested and very likely to break ...21:09
Nubaeheh, worked for me though21:09
ograNubae, right and you keep all the old cruft21:09
ograreally, use update-manager .... its the only path that gets tested21:10
Nubaeogra: I see u did the screenies for classroomserver howto... we need to update those to intrepid screenies...21:10
Nubaewant me to do it?21:10
ogradid that change so much ?21:10
TrailbrainYahoo!   It worked21:10
* ogra doesnt use the default theme since a while anymore21:11
TrailbrainSee this is where the smart people are21:11
ograapart from the wallpaper it shouldnt make much difference21:11
ograbut if you feel like, replace them :)21:11
Nubaetrue, was just for accuracy sake21:11
* HedgeMage peeks in21:13
HedgeMageI'm amazed at how few people are downloading from the ubuntu torrent right now... the xubuntu one is *busy*21:13
Nubaexubuntu users are smarter21:14
Nubaethey know torrents exist21:14
HedgeMageIt took me less than 10 minutes to download the xubuntu ISO... the ubuntu one is going on 45 minutes.21:16
HedgeMageFor a long while, I was the only one on the ubuntu torrent... now it's up to all of 7 peers21:16
Nubaeah I'll join in then... 7 is allright :p21:17
HedgeMagejust me was kind of pathetic -- I was downloading so slowly because I wasn't uploading, but there was no one to upload to!21:17
HedgeMageNubae: I do think the torrent option should be more prominent on the download page -- I'm willing to bet that few people notice it.21:21
Nubaeyeah agree21:22
Mip5The updates are trickling in....21:28
Mip5I'll rebuild the client after the updates continue.21:33
Nubae50 connects now for alternate server via torrents22:08
HedgeMageNubae: nice.22:09
Nubaeyeah and now the edubuntu site is totally down... how am I supposed to edit pages like this?22:12
LaserJockNubae: I'm here now22:12
LaserJockNubae: I had a lab to teach22:12
HedgeMageNubae: I'm still seeding ubuntu and xubuntu desktop since I finished, and ubuntu only has about 17, still better than earlier.  Xubuntu has more.22:13
Nubaeyeah alternate ubuntu has 5022:13
Nubaeso it has to do with smarter ubuntu users knowing torrents exist22:14
LaserJockNubae: did you make any changes to the download page?22:15
Nubaeyeah, changed so that it would be in line with 8.10, but Im working on getting started22:16
Nubaethat was set to 6.06 still22:16
LaserJockNubae: ok, so I think we need to really shorten the download page22:17
NubaeLaserJock: I cant remember what I wanted to ask... oh yeah, at this meeting, I saw there was a mention of sugar being discussed... perhaps sugar on ltsp should also be discussed22:17
LaserJockand just deal with 8.04 and 8.1022:17
LaserJockyeah, we can talk about that22:18
NubaeSugar on LTSP and Fat Client LTSP22:22
LaserJockNubae: we need like a site map for edubuntu.org22:23
LaserJockso we can look at what pages we have, prioritize them, and figure out what needs to get updated, etc.22:24
Nubaeyeah, its difficult to see from the main page what exists22:25
Nubaebut there are indeed links going everywhere22:25
LaserJockyeah, we need to stop that :-)22:26
LaserJockI think if we had a system to deal with versions22:26
Nubaeyep, but the way its being done on upgrade is to make new pages, and then change the old alias url nodes to the new pages22:26
Nubaeso we need to clean house I guess22:27
LaserJockwe need to also figure out the naming scheme22:27
Nubaeheh, u mean the edubuntu vs ubuntu educational thing?22:27
LaserJockit's really bugging me that we have Edubuntu, Ubuntu Education, Educational Addon, Classroom Server, Ubuntu, etc.22:27
LaserJockit's *got* to be confusing to people just wanting to check it out22:28
LaserJocklike on news/8.10-release22:28
Nubaeit is22:29
NubaeI couldn't figure it out even while I was editting22:29
LaserJockthere is "Ubuntu Education Edition 8.10 Released" then "About Ubuntu Education Edition" which basically says it's Edubuntu22:29
LaserJockthen "About Edubuntu"22:29
Nubaeeither its Edubuntu or Ubuntu Education...22:29
Nubaeah there is also ubuntu.com/Education :-)22:30
LaserJockso I have to scroll an entire page just to get at "Get Ubuntu Education Edition"22:30
LaserJockbut by that time I dont' know if I want Edubuntu or Ubuntu Education Edition or ...22:30
Nubaeyeah totally with you22:30
LaserJockNubae: not only that, on ubuntu.com/Education "Edubuntu" is not mentioned anywhere22:31
LaserJockbut on the sidebar there is both "Edubuntu" and "Education"22:31
Nubaeok, so we get rid of edubuntu completely as a name?22:32
LaserJockI don't know, but we need to just pick one and move on22:32
Nubaethe problem then is we have the edubuntu users and edubuntu developers and #edubuntu22:32
LaserJockwell, not only that22:32
LaserJockwe have edubuntu packages, and "Ubuntu Education Edition" is rather long to put in logo's etc.22:33
LaserJockwe could call it UEE I guess22:33
Nubaehmmm indeed... and the logo22:33
LaserJockor ubuntu-ee22:34
Nubaeto be honest, I dont really see the problem with edubuntu22:34
Nubaeis there a reason for the re-branding?22:34
LaserJockwell, sort of22:34
LaserJockI don't want to get into all of it22:34
LaserJockbut Canonical wanted to create an Education brand that included not just Edubuntu22:35
Nubaehmmm I thought edubuntu was the education brand22:35
LaserJockthe idea was that a school could be using plain Ubuntu on it's teacher desktops, Ubuntu Server on their mail/webserver and Ubuntu Education Edition for LTSP and teaching22:36
LaserJockbut bottom line, you're using "Ubuntu", which is good for marketing22:36
LaserJockso my understanding of it was that "Ubuntu Education" was using Ubuntu in Education period22:36
LaserJockand Edubuntu was supposed to be a specific "product"22:36
LaserJockbut it's really not clear to me22:37
Nubaeok gotcha, then edubuntu is the classroom server?22:37
Nubaeor the addon cd?22:37
Nubaeor both?22:37
LaserJockumm, good question22:37
LaserJockI don't know that anybody exactly knows22:37
LaserJockLTSP is on the Ubuntu disk22:37
LaserJockEdubuntu only produces the Addon CD22:37
Nubaewell, maybe its just about making a decision22:37
Nubaewell classroom server is like addon-cd + ubuntu alternate cd22:38
LaserJockso right now it's the "Ubuntu Education Edition Educational Addon CD produced by Edubuntu"22:38
LaserJockwhich is as confusing as can be to me22:38
Nubaemaybe the addoncd should just be that...22:38
Nubaesi then we have ubuntu educational add on cd22:39
Nubaebut then edubuntu has to go22:39
LaserJockwell, I'm not sure why the addon CD just can't be either "Edubuntu" or "Ubuntu Education Edition"22:39
LaserJockI guess it's a holdover from when we had 2 CDs22:40
Nubaewell ubuntu education edition is also classroom server, or not?22:40
LaserJocknot sure exactly22:40
LaserJockhere's how I think of it:22:40
NubaeI guess classroom server is easy to get rid off22:40
Nubaethats only used on 2 or 3 pages22:40
Nubaeno logo22:41
LaserJockUbuntu Desktop + Addon CD = Edubuntu22:41
LaserJockUbuntu Alternate + Addon CD = Edubuntu Classroom Server22:41
Nubaeexcept we call it LTSP Classroom server now22:41
Nubaebut what u say makes sense22:42
LaserJockI would separate out LTSP from Classroom Server22:42
LaserJockbut either way22:42
Nubaeor seperate edubuntu from both and get rid of it22:42
LaserJockgetting rid of Edubuntu completely is complicated22:42
LaserJock*everything* is wrapped around "edubuntu"22:43
LaserJocknot that we can't rename, it's just quite a bit of work22:43
LaserJockand it is an existing "brand"22:44
NubaeI see that, but right now the users are probably totally confused and its hurting more than helping22:44
LaserJockhere's how I guess I would've handled the "marketing" if we want to keep both22:44
LaserJockUbuntu Desktop + Edubuntu = Ubuntu Education Edition22:44
LaserJockUbuntu Alternate + Edubuntu = LTSP Classroom Server22:45
LaserJockso we get rid of the "Educational Addon" bit22:45
Nubaeok, and edubuntu really refers to the add-on cd then22:45
Nubaeok thats good22:45
Nubaebut that needs to be well defined22:46
LaserJockso the Edubuntu project really produces 1) contents of "Edubuntu" CD and 2) LTSP for Alternate CD22:46
=== merriam_ is now known as merriam
Nubaeso edubuntu project =! edubuntu =! ubuntu educational...22:47
LaserJockthe one thing I don't like about it is that "Edubuntu" then becomes not a self-contained OS22:47
LaserJockright, that's the problem, IMO22:47
LaserJockI want 1 project, 1 product, 1 community22:47
LaserJockbut I don't know how we do that with the current mix of branding22:47
Nubaeits no longer a self contained os though, the split off from the cd was a mistake in my opinion from marketing/community, but made sense on a practical/support part22:47
LaserJockand being and addon CD22:47
LaserJockwell, we could kinda be sneaky about it22:48
Nubaealso the community seems split into 2 now, with most having migrated to #ltsp22:48
LaserJockon the download page would could link to the Ubuntu CD but call it like Edubuntu Base or something22:48
LaserJockthough I doubt that would work out well because of the branding on the CD itself22:49
Nubaewell, the addon-cd is not available unless u download it22:49
LaserJockwhat I was thinking is that you'd have 2 links22:50
LaserJock1 would be "Edubuntu Base" which would just be the Ubuntu CD22:50
LaserJockand then the other would be the addon CD22:50
NubaeI like that, makes sense22:51
LaserJockor, what my original plan was to call it "Ubuntu" but have a *short* explanation22:52
NubaeI think u'll confuse less people calling it edubuntu with an explanation in brackets22:52
Nubaeedubuntu (the ubuntu base)22:53
Nubaenot accurate, but makes sense in context22:53
LaserJock"Edubuntu is built off of a base of Ubuntu. This allows us to deliver more educational software, but means you must first have an Ubuntu installation. For your convenience we have links to both CDs below."22:53
Nubaeyeah nice22:54
LaserJockto me I think ^^ would work22:54
LaserJockwe don't need to assume people are idiots, but we do need to explain in clear and concise language22:55
Nubaeyep, looks good22:56

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!