[12:02]  * persia rings the alert bell
[12:03] <StevenK> Did I make it? :-P
[12:03] <ogra> no, you missed
[12:03] <ogra> :P
[12:03] <StevenK> Aww!
[12:03]  * ogra proposes we move todays meeting to #ubuntu-release-party
[12:03] <persia> It's just a little noisy, no?
[12:04] <StevenK> Oh yeah. That'll go *real* well
[12:04] <ogra> makes it more exciting :)
[12:04]  * persia doesn't want exciting
[12:04] <ogra> c'mon, its release day
[12:04] <ogra> some excitement is allowed
[12:05] <StevenK> ogra: No excitement for you
[12:05] <ogra> where is lool ?
[12:05] <ogra> :'-(
[12:05] <persia> Excitement is dangerous.  Elevated heart rate.  You could suffer a mishap.
[12:05] <davidm> StevenK, ogra can one of you take the meeting please
[12:06] <ogra> excitement in happyness is healthy :)
[12:06] <ogra> ok, lets go then
[12:06] <ogra> [startmeeting]
[12:06] <persia> It's #
[12:06] <ogra> hmm
[12:06] <ogra> #startmeeting
[12:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 07:06. The chair is ogra.
[12:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[12:07] <ogra> #topic Action Items from Oct 23rd, 2008
[12:07] <ogra> doesnt like me :/
[12:07] <StevenK> ogra: [topic]
[12:07] <persia> It's [] for topic
[12:07] <ogra> [Action Items from Oct 23rd, 2008]
[12:07] <StevenK> It's a nice and consistent bot
[12:08] <StevenK> ogra: "[topic] Action Items from Oct 23rd, 2008"
[12:08] <ogra> if you know how to handle it, yes :P
[12:08] <ogra> [topic] Action Items from Oct 23rd, 2008
[12:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Items from Oct 23rd, 2008
[12:08] <ogra> tsk
[12:08] <ogra> persia to write an errata and milestone bug #287857
[12:08] <persia> \o/
[12:08] <StevenK> That has been sorted
[12:08] <ogra> i guess thats all done since days
[12:08] <persia> That actually got fixed, rather than needing errate.
[12:09] <ogra> right
[12:09] <ogra> and lots more ogt fixed as well last minute :)
[12:09] <ogra> *got
[12:09] <StevenK> Yup
[12:09]  * persia thanks StevenK for the fast work on kourou
[12:09] <ogra> i think we've done pretty damn well for all the stepstones we had in the way
[12:09] <davmor2> Just for ogra: WOOHOO!
[12:10] <ogra> :)
[12:10] <ogra> next item: davidm to add a redirect page in wiki so folks reading announcement email get agenda (complete)
[12:10] <ogra> says complete ... i'm inclined to belive that
[12:10] <StevenK> Tes it
[12:10] <StevenK> Er, Test
[12:10] <davidm> It''s complete I tested it last week
[12:11] <ogra> ok
[12:12] <ogra> well, nothing else on the agenda apart from status reports it seems ...
[12:12] <ogra> [topic] status of intrepid tasks: installer, images etc. (davidm)
[12:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  status of intrepid tasks: installer, images etc. (davidm)
[12:12] <ogra> is amit here ?
[12:12] <StevenK> I'm hoping that is all done.
[12:12] <ogra> hmm, doesnt look like
[12:12] <StevenK> If not
[12:12] <davidm> I don't see him
[12:12] <StevenK> :-)
[12:13] <ogra> StevenK, any intresting status items you want to tell us abut ? :)
[12:13] <StevenK> I've been testing images. So no
[12:13] <ogra> yeah, i think that goes for all of us ... plus renaming stress
[12:14] <ogra> anything else ?
[12:14] <StevenK> Right
[12:14]  * ogra takes that as a no :)
[12:15] <ogra> persia, ? anything else beyond testing
[12:15] <persia> Yes.
[12:15] <ogra> tell us :)
[12:15] <persia> I want to talk about the process for people to join the mobile team.
[12:15] <ogra> how is the status of that team atm ? is it handled like edubuntu or kubuntu teams ?
[12:15] <persia> I think it ought be : someone who has been contributing to the mobile images for a bit adds themselves to the agenda, and we quiz them, and if a majority of us approve, they get to join.
[12:16] <persia> Anyone else have any thoughts?
[12:16] <ogra> i.e. do you gain membership joining it ?
[12:16] <persia> Currently, the process is completely opaque, and involves bribing lool
[12:16] <StevenK> Or David
[12:16] <persia> No.  You gain commit to some of the bzr repos.
[12:16]  * persia didn't think David accepted bribes
[12:16] <ogra> he does, depends on the HW you send him ;)
[12:17] <persia> Ah.
[12:17] <StevenK> Or the foodstuffs
[12:17] <ogra> heh
[12:17] <persia> Anyway, I'm all for a process based less on graft.
[12:17] <davidm> a documented process is something I am for myself
[12:17] <ogra> well, i think since we aim to be part of the distro team it should rather work like any other of the subteams
[12:17] <davidm> ogra, how do they work?
[12:18] <ogra> but that would need somehing like a council etc
[12:18] <ogra> you gain ubuntu membership with being allowed into the team
[12:18] <persia> That's only Kubuntu.
[12:18] <ogra> which is one of the steps needed to gain upload rights
[12:18] <StevenK> And Xubuntu?
[12:18] <ogra> edubuntu as well
[12:19] <persia> Edubuntu, but not Xubuntu (last I checked)
[12:19] <ogra> not sure about xubuntu, it once was
[12:19]  * persia looks again
[12:19] <ogra> but that might have changed when they started building from universe
[12:19] <ogra> though i think it makes sense and gives extra benefit
[12:19] <persia> Anyway, I don't think we're big enough to need to fuss about "Members", "Developers", etc.
[12:20] <StevenK> Agreed
[12:20] <persia> The server team seems like a better model : they just accept people who contribute stuff.
[12:20] <davidm> +1
[12:20] <ogra> ok, i'm overruled then :)
[12:20] <StevenK> We aren't voting :-P
[12:21] <persia> Yeah.  Xubuntu doesn't have any mapping to Ubuntu Membership or uploads currently.
[12:21] <davidm> true, I'm simply expressing agreement, with an idea not voting on it as yet, I'm way too tired to vote on anything
[12:21] <lool> Hi folks, sorry I was at lunch thinking meeting is at 2pm
[12:21] <lool> (I moved to UTC+1)
[12:21] <ogra> me too :)
[12:21] <ogra> lool, any opinion on team membership processes ?
[12:22] <lool> I think it should be clear that we ultimately decide to accept someone
[12:22] <lool> perhaps naming explicitely who may nominate new members
[12:22] <ogra> persia, proposed to just base on contributions
[12:22] <lool> And that this is discussed at least in a meeting where we can ask questions to the candidate
[12:22] <lool> (similar to core-dev with TB)
[12:22] <ogra> and on people subscribing to the agenda being asked in the meeting
[12:22] <lool> apart of that, I'm fine
[12:22] <persia> I thought self-nominated would be good.  We can pick on them if they don't contribute enough.
[12:23] <Burgundavia> ogra: is the mobile team interested in granting membership?
[12:23] <ogra> Burgundavia, well, doesnt look like ...
[12:23] <Burgundavia> if so, basically you need to come to the CC for that
[12:23] <persia> Burgundavia, I don't think we have enough interested people yet to start that dicussion.
[12:23] <StevenK> I don't think we want to grant ubuntu membership
[12:23] <ogra> wh not ?
[12:23] <Burgundavia> although I don;t see any specific reason why you couldn't and it would probably make sense
[12:23] <ogra> if someone is only intrested in mobile
[12:24] <ogra> he likely wont want to go to the CC
[12:24] <ogra> or the LOCO group, or whoever approves members nowadays
[12:24] <persia> I think it makes sense once we have enough popularity for our flavours.  Right now, we're still small.
[12:24] <ogra> in the end its just an extra you get
[12:25] <ogra> ad membership defines by contributing and agreeing to the CoC
[12:25] <StevenK> I agree with persia
[12:25] <Burgundavia> having a contributors team that has a low barrier to entry and a stepping stone to membership is a good idea, imho
[12:26] <ogra> its just an additional goodie and people dont need to go to any additional entity to gain membership
[12:26] <persia> Burgundavia, I'd agree with that : I just don't think our team is big enough to do that yet.
[12:26] <ogra> it might attract more peope though
[12:26] <ogra> *people
[12:27] <CaPriCoRN^80> i am here :)
[12:27] <ogra> if you want your membership easily ... contribute to mobile :)
[12:27]  * StevenK gets distracted by #u-r-p
[12:27] <ogra> hehe
[12:27] <ogra> i said we should hold the meeting there :)
[12:27] <StevenK> Haha
[12:27] <ogra> so you dont have to switch
[12:27] <StevenK> Oh yeah, with another 450 people
[12:28] <persia> ogra, Can we have two separate conversations?  One about having a transparent method to have people join, and a second if we want to be able to grant membership?
[12:28] <CaPriCoRN^80> ogra: contribute to mobile ? can u define that
[12:28] <ogra> persia, indeed we can
[12:28] <StevenK> We'd have 200 volunteers for the new membership process
[12:28] <ogra> CaPriCoRN^80, fix bugs, help testing, make artwork, write docs ....
[12:28] <ogra> write code ...
[12:28] <ogra> etc
[12:29] <ogra> anything that improves the work done by the mobile team
[12:29] <ogra> StevenK, just announce the meeting there, they are all bored and waiting :)
[12:29]  * lool needs to add something to the agenda
[12:29] <CaPriCoRN^80> ogra: i am not very good in writing code . i just read on ubuntu site and thought to work with ubuntu people
[12:29] <persia> So, anyone have any changes they want, or shall I just declare what I've proposed on the wiki?
[12:30] <CaPriCoRN^80> about me . i have experience in network administration
[12:30] <ogra> persia, i think the process as you defined it is fine
[12:30] <CaPriCoRN^80> ogra: i want to join ubuntu people . thats my interest
[12:30] <ogra> but i would really see added membership as a benefit ... which we should probably discuss by mail
[12:31] <persia> ogra, Or just separately.
[12:31] <ogra> right, lets move that to the end of the meeting then
[12:31] <ogra> so ++ from me on persias proposal
[12:31] <persia> lool, StevenK ?
[12:31] <lool> +1 with above caveats
[12:32] <persia> lool, I agree with the discussion part.  How do you think nomination should be limited?
[12:32] <StevenK> I'd like to read the complete proposal before I vote
[12:32] <ogra> lool, oh, so you are against self nomination ?
[12:33]  * persia quickly drafts something in a pastebin
[12:33] <lool> persia: Perhaps we need a core mobile team or a mobile team tech board; current suspects would be basically us :)
[12:33] <lool> ogra: Not against self nomination no
[12:33] <lool> I just want to restrict who decides of membership
[12:33] <ogra> right, we'Re small enough to handle that easily and unbuerocratic atm
[12:33] <persia> lool, We have mobile-core-dev.  Perhaps that would be the right group?
[12:34] <lool> ie new members can not elect new members immediately
[12:34] <CaPriCoRN^80> ogra: please let me know if i can participate
[12:34] <CaPriCoRN^80> through some mean
[12:34] <lool> persia: Something like that yes
[12:34] <lool> ogra: I fully agree
[12:34] <persia> CaPriCoRN^80, You're entirely welcome to contribute.  Please do so.  For specifics, I suggest asking in #ubuntu-mobile after the meeting.
[12:34] <CaPriCoRN^80> ok
[12:36] <ogra> persia, do you have a url for the proposal ?
[12:36] <persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/64588/
[12:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://paste.ubuntu.com/64588/
[12:36] <lool> I see we're still under the "status of intrepid tasks" [topic], but we've really been discussing adding new members
[12:36] <ogra> StevenK, ^^^
[12:37] <StevenK> Sounds good to me
[12:37] <lool> Good enough to start with I think
[12:37] <ogra> lool, well, we're not done with status, i asked persia if he had something to add to the rather non existing report :)
[12:38] <davidm> Is work in the wiki enough to become a member?
[12:38] <ogra> right, i think thats agreement so far
[12:38] <persia> huh?  I don't have any status.  The release is happening.  I only wanted to talk about team membership.
[12:38] <ogra> davidm, i'D say yes, depending on the wiki work
[12:38] <persia> davidm, Could be : depends on the work.  If it helps us enough, I'd say "yes".
[12:38] <ogra> persia, thats what i meant :)
[12:38] <Burgundavia> persia: you should be explicitly clear that this is not Ubuntu membership, as it is currently ambiguous
[12:38] <davidm> ogra, good, I think it''s important (given how much wiki work I've been doing of recent)
[12:39] <ogra> davidm, someone who constantly writes helpful howtos shoud definately get membership
[12:39] <persia> Burgundavia, Good point.  I'll clean that up, as I specifically *don't* mean Ubuntu membership.
[12:39] <ogra> *team membership
[12:39] <CaPriCoRN^80> orga: i joined ubuntu-mobile and wrote my query over there . let see
[12:39] <persia> Burgundavia, Does  http://paste.ubuntu.com/64589/ address your concern?
[12:40] <Burgundavia> yep, that works
[12:40] <Burgundavia> although I would add a comment about how their mobile work can apply for future Ubuntu membership
[12:41] <persia> That makes sense.
[12:41] <ogra> thats to be discussed at the end of the meeting
[12:41] <persia> Anyway, any objections to me adding this to the Mobile Team wiki page, and later editing quibbles expressed as wiki edits?
[12:41] <ogra> but looks like we have general agreement on the process
[12:41] <ogra> fine with me ...
[12:41] <persia> OK.  I'm done then.
[12:42] <Burgundavia> one last piece about uploading; afaik, all members of MOTU must also be members, but they can apply simultaneously. Check with dholbach though
[12:42] <ogra> lool, anything to add to the status beyond image testing bughunting, release preparation etc ?
[12:43] <lool> No
[12:43] <lool> I have another topic to discuss at your convenience during this meeting
[12:43] <lool> Which is new secretary
[12:43] <StevenK> I was wondering about that
[12:43] <ogra> at the end then
[12:43] <lool> (I've added it to the end of the agenda some minutes ago)
[12:44] <ogra> nothing from my side either beyond general release preparation ...
[12:44] <StevenK> And davidm is the same, I'm guessing
[12:44] <ogra> davidm, anything from your side for status beyond the general stuff ?
[12:44] <davidm> indeed, I'm in london working with the release team here, learning ALOT.
[12:45]  * ogra hopes they pointed you to #ubuntu-release-party :)
[12:45] <davidm> So I'm up to my ears in learning the process
[12:45] <lool> I'd like to note that I wont be around for most of November
[12:45] <davidm> I done
[12:45] <ogra> great
[12:45] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam
[12:46] <lool> persia: Looks good
[12:46] <davidm> persia, works
[12:46] <ogra> [topic] # New secretary for November (lool)
[12:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  # New secretary for November (lool)
[12:46] <ogra> any volunteers ?
[12:47] <lool> So I've been aggregating the activity reports of people in the mobile team for september and october
[12:47] <lool> And would love someone to pick up November
[12:47] <lool> Doubly so as I'm not around much of November
[12:47] <davidm> I want just to say this has been very helpful and wanted to thank lool for his efforts in October.
[12:47]  * lool blushes
[12:47]  * ogra hugs lool for keeping up with him
[12:47] <davidm> I've been quite surprised just how much this has helped me during the last month.
[12:48] <lool> So, any taker?
[12:48]  * persia has a hankerning for January, and hopes someone else volunteers for November
[12:48] <davidm> so StevenK persia ogra will one of you step up and take November please?
[12:48] <lool> it gets you the benefit of knowing about activity before the end of the week!!
[12:48] <ogra> heh
[12:49]  * ogra takes it though usually hardly manages his own ARs
[12:49] <lool> [agreed]!
[12:49] <davidm> Thank you ogra
[12:49] <lool> ogra: [agreed] ogra to be November's secretary
[12:49] <ogra> [action] ogra to be the november secretary (no lipstick involved)
[12:49] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to be the november secretary (no lipstick involved)
[12:49] <lool> Should I still take this week?
[12:49] <lool> It started in Oct and ends in Nov :)
[12:50] <StevenK> It isn't November until Saturday
[12:50] <davidm> Since persia volunteered for Jan that leaves StevenK with December
[12:50] <ogra> as you like, there wont be much on the list anyway
[12:50] <ogra> ok, moving on then ...
[12:50] <davidm> So unless there is disagreement are we  good until February?
[12:51] <StevenK> Sounds like it
[12:51] <ogra> [topic] should ubuntu membership go with mobile team membership ?
[12:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  should ubuntu membership go with mobile team membership ?
[12:51] <davidm> OK, thank you all
[12:51] <persia> I say Not Yet.
[12:51] <persia> We currently have some team members who are not yet Ubuntu Members,
[12:51] <StevenK> Agreed, not yet
[12:51] <ogra> i'D say yes :)
[12:51] <persia> Let's wait until at least all of mobile-core-dev is Ubuntu Members, and then revisit.
[12:52] <ogra> right, and they should become ubuntu members if they contribute
[12:52]  * persia doesn't like non-members being responsible for Ubutu Membership
[12:52] <ogra> oh, we have core members that arent ubuntu members ?
[12:52] <persia> Yes.
[12:52] <ogra> how does that work ?
[12:52] <davidm> me
[12:52] <ogra> ah
[12:53] <ogra> well, i guess your contributions are enough to jusify membership already
[12:53] <davidm> persia, how about if I abstain from any votes until I meet ubuntu membership?
[12:53] <ogra> just a matter of paperwork
[12:53] <persia> So, let's bring this up again after davidm has membership.
[12:53] <ogra> ok
[12:53] <davidm> ogra I'm not so sure from what I've been told.
[12:53] <persia> davidm, I think you have a strong view of contributions to the Mobile Team, and would rather see your voice on applications to join the team.
[12:53] <davidm> persia, OK, then we wait
[12:53] <ogra> you are caring for copyright automatin since a while ... i would count that as a big contribution for example
[12:54] <ogra> and there is surely more
[12:55] <ogra> well, ok, lets wait then
[12:55] <ogra> AOB ?
[12:55] <davidm> OK so are we done on this topic for now then?
[12:55] <ogra> we are
[12:55] <StevenK> ogra: Then drive the meeting
[12:55] <StevenK> :-P
[12:55] <ogra> well, thats why i said AOB :)
[12:56] <ogra> but seems there is nothing
[12:56] <ogra> so going once ...
[12:56] <ogra> twice ...
[12:56] <StevenK> Wait!
[12:56] <StevenK> Just kidding
[12:56] <lool> crap, was preparing the same joke
[12:56]  * StevenK wins
[12:56]  * ogra waits until StevenK is done with kidding ...
[12:56] <persia> Congrats everyone on getting intrepid complete.
[12:56] <lool> but I wait until after he #closes meeting
[12:56] <ogra> adjourned, thanks all
[12:57] <ogra> #endmeeting
[12:57] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:57.
[12:57] <lool> #endmeeting
[12:57] <lool> thakns
[12:57] <lool> ogra: thanks for chairing
[12:57] <davidm> Yes, that is a BIG accomplishment for the team.
[12:57] <lool> Chairing?  Oh we manage every week
[12:57] <ogra> so now everyone go to #ubuntu-release-party !
[12:57] <lool> It's not that hard really
[12:57] <ogra> lool, :P
[12:57] <davidm> release, mid will go up a tad late
[12:57] <ogra> oh, why is that ?
[12:58] <davidm> it does not have a prestaged image
[12:58] <davidm> so we need to get it up there.
[12:58] <ogra> it doesnt need one
[12:58] <lool> Uh
[12:58] <ogra> it stays on cdimage, no ?
[12:58] <StevenK> UMPC does
[12:58] <lool> No umpc, does
[12:58] <ogra> cdimage isnt mirrored
[12:58] <lool> -,
[12:58] <ogra> ah
[14:02] <persia> Anyone about for the Java meeting?
[14:08] <ogra> they all got swallowed by #u-r-p :)
[14:09] <persia> Yeah, probably :)
[14:14] <persia> Well, congrats on the intrepid effort : we'll try again next week.
[14:17] <Koon> grmbl
[14:17] <persia> Koon, ?
[14:17] <Koon> (late)
[14:17]  * Koon has trouble with TZ.
[14:18] <persia> Meeting was short.  Only agenda item was congrats on finishing intrepid.  Did you want to raise anything late?
[14:18] <Koon> yay
[14:18] <Koon> no, nothing :)