* Turl "fixed" the JS-animations bug00:02
Turlbtw, are you canonical employees?00:03
newz2000Turl: you fixed it?00:12
newz2000yes, I am a canonical employee00:12
Turlnewz2000, read all what I wrote to you :p00:13
newz2000reading now00:13
Turlok ;)00:13
newz2000on your computer what does the 7fps look good?00:14
Turlit'sway faster00:16
TurlI have to leave00:16
Turlsee you tomorrow00:16
Turlhope you can release it ;)00:16
newz2000thank you so much, I will play with it00:16
* newz2000 has hope!00:16
newz2000I can't believe it, he figured out the solution!!!!00:22
boredandbloggingis someone swapping out the countdown image?04:17
pufuwozunewz2000: do you still have that animation problem?04:57
Mirvif you need (/can use) I can eg. collect all to-be-fixed strings (those utf-8 problems with some languages, though not mine) and all offered Search button translations to a pastebin page09:55
newz2000boredandblogging: yikes! I'll correct that10:06
thorwilnewz2000: whoa, ineterest is heating up. 770 views from the countdown page to my blog already today. where 100 views total was normal and maybe 400 total since the banners are up :)13:15
newz2000yeah, release day is insane13:15
thorwilhope everything is working alright for you :)13:16
newz2000good so far13:17
newz2000there's always a last-minute panic13:17
thorwilah, the animation works and the fan not spinning up tells me it isn't causing excessive load :)14:39
newz2000yes, huge improvement14:40
thorwilthe countdown banner script seems to deliver "coming soon", still14:43
newz2000yep, will update that in a couple min14:43
mpt_newz2000, I have a small problem14:43
newz2000hey mpt_, what's up?14:43
mpt_Ubuntu 8.10 has been released, but the only mention of the desktop edition is in a tiny news headline below the fold14:44
newz2000big huge banner on the homepage - alternates between server and desktop14:44
mpt_I know that, but the only reason I know it is because gerry showed me both animations yesterday14:45
mpt_otherwise I'd just think you were making a big deal of the server and not of the desktop :-)14:45
newz2000That's not a bad point, though I'm at a loss what to do14:45
mpt_Perhaps add an "Also available: Ubuntu 8.10 Desktop Edition" link to the server banner, and vice versa for the desktop banner?14:47
mpt_But that would still have the problem that it wouldn't be visible until ~10 seconds had elapsed14:47
newz2000I'm going to change the ratio of desktop to server shows to be 3:114:50
newz2000never mind, I guess I'm not14:50
mpt_You could change "Get Ubuntu" to "Get the new Ubuntu 8.10"14:51
mpt_though that's still a bit small14:52
mpt_If this was microsoft.com, they'd have a slidey thing for choosing which banner you want to show14:52
mpt_like they did for their Vista vs. Office 2007 banners14:52
newz2000you want to join #marketing on canonical's irc? Gery and I are discussing it now14:53
mpt_If this was apple.com, they'd have a large banner for the desktop edition, and one of the four underneath would be for the server edition14:53
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
Turlhi newz200015:17
Turlcould you make it work?15:17
newz2000hey Turl, our hero!15:17
newz2000we did15:17
Turlgreat :)15:17
newz2000it's live now, and feedback has been excellent15:17
Turlexellent news :D15:17
Turlhas 8.10 been released?15:18
newz2000just in the last hour15:18
newz2000Turl: I want to give you a public thank you for your help, do you mind if I make mention of it on the webteam mailing list?15:18
Turlbtw, firefox's homepage is still unfixed15:18
Turlnewz2000, it isn't necesary ;)15:18
newz2000correct, its not as simple as it seems apparently15:18
newz2000Turl: may I though? I'd like to if you don't mind too much.15:19
Turlno problem, but it's not necesary - any webdev could have found that out15:19
newz2000I didn't and neither did another friend of mine who is a js guru15:19
newz2000Turl: do you have a blog or website of your own?15:20
Turlyep, but it's in spanish15:20
Turland I don't post very regularly15:20
newz2000what country are you in?15:21
newz2000well, kat, the canonical corporate identity person was severely distressed when she found out the banners were causing problems and this morning was exstatic to find you'd gotten them working15:23
Turlnow, what's the problem with the index? why is it that difficult to fix?15:36
newz2000we're using a program called html2po that takes the translation files and turns them into an html page15:36
newz2000so the characters are correct in the .po file (the translation file) but the html2po seems to be messing them up15:37
newz2000about half a dozen languages are seeing this problem15:37
Turlmhm strange15:37
newz2000yeah, earlier today someone posted a possible solution to one of the mailing lists so I need to try it out15:37
Turlthere are 2 possible fixes15:38
Turl1- use entities, or15:39
Turl2- fix po2html15:39
Turland well, there's always a third, fix them manually :p15:40
newz2000using entities is probably a good solution, both solutions require a bit of time15:40
newz2000things will slow down for me in the next hour or two and I'll catch up with that and the few other things15:41
Turlyou can use a simple match-and-replace script on the po files to fix them15:41
newz2000good idea15:41
Turlafter all, .po is just text15:41
newz2000I noticed they're versioned, is it important to update the version whenever you makea  cahnge like this?15:42
Turlthe po? I really don't know much about this, but you might version it15:42
newz2000yeah, its all new to me too15:43
Turlyou have an entity table here http://www.cookwood.com/entities/15:43
newz2000the solution proposed on the tranlator's list is to set an environment variable before running html2po and it will make it work correctly15:43
Turlmaybe that's also possible15:43
Turland it would be a better solution and less time-consuming15:43
TurlI am reading this bug newz2000 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-docs/+bug/29049415:47
ubot3Malone bug 290494 in ubuntu-docs "Title of the browser start page not being displayed correctly" [Undecided,Invalid]15:47
Turlit seems the problem resides in htmltidy?15:47
newz2000ah, is that the culprit?15:47
newz2000that would make sense15:47
newz2000let me see if I can find the message with the proposed solution15:48
Turlsee here http://linux.die.net/man/1/tidy15:48
Turlyou might try with -utf815:48
TurlI imagine you're using utf-8 on the files?15:49
Turlso if the culprit is tidy, that should solve the problem15:50
newz2000I will try it15:51
newz2000need a few more minutes to make other changes first15:51
Turlwell, I'll start the upgrade - hope there aren't many packages to update15:53
newz2000are you running 8.04?15:53
newz2000if so you may want to wait till tomorrow unless you have a nice fast mirror.15:53
newz2000updating on release day can be very frustrating15:53
Turlheh, just 1 package :p15:58
TurlI was already running intrepid alphas :p15:58
omegamormegilGreetings!  I just thought I might suggest two wording corrections on the Welcome to Intrepid page: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/810features/.  Change "with 18 months free updates" to "with 18 months OF free updates".  Also, change "discover this for your self." to discover this for yourself."  I was a bit jarred by those two items when I first read the page.  Hope this is helpful.  Thanks for all the hard16:05
omegamormegil work!16:05
newz2000thanks for the feedback, I'll investigate it omegamormegil16:06
omegamormegilJust saw something else on the same page.  "on a platform that with 18 months free updates."  The "that" in there should no be there, in addition to adding the word "of"..16:09
newz2000ok. If you see any more just list them and I'll hit 'em all at once here shortly16:10
omegamormegilsame page, change "upload easily to you favourite social networking sites."  "you" should be "your" and favourite should be favorite.16:14
Turlisn't it favourite?16:21
TurlI think both are correct16:22
newz2000we use british spelling16:23
newz2000so favourite16:23
thorwileverytime i try to use british spelling, i stumble over everyone writing "color" ...16:23
newz2000yeah, I have to set my spell checker to en-gb but then when I'm writing to people in the US I have to ignore the squiggly lines16:24
omegamormegilAh.  Yeah, firefox picked it up.16:24
newz2000I will be back soon.16:38
jspirohi all.  My newbie cousin got confused by the mirror selector at http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download .  Is it really necessary, or could you use auto mirror selection like getfirefox.com does?  (I don't know if they use geolocation or random selection or what.)  And if you must use manual mirror selection, could you please make it easier to use?  (For example, you merely would have to choose your continent18:07
jspirochoice will be made for you.  Also, if you don't make any choice but merely click Download, it should make a choice for you.)18:07
jspiros/the rest of the choice will/ the rest of the choice should/18:07
newz2000jspiro: hi18:09
newz2000for now it is necessary, but hopefully for next release we will have a better solution18:09
newz2000I feel your cousin's pain though. I can't wait to get rid of it.18:09
Turlit should be an easy fix18:11
Turlyou can get some code from the getdeb project, it has mirror selection18:12
newz2000if it were an easy fix we'd have done it long ago18:12
Turlerm, believe me, it's an easy fix :p18:13
newz2000how does it work?18:14
Turlpings the mirrors to check if they're up every certain time and builds an up-list18:14
Turland then gives mirrors mantaining proportion if I'm not wrong18:15
Turlso they don't get overloaded18:15
newz2000so how do you ensure someone like Columbia doesn't download from a mirror australia (both are countries that have poor international bandwidth)18:15
newz2000on a 5 or 10mb file it's not a big deal but cds are 700mb18:16
* jspiro goes to check what Fedora's download page looks like18:17
jspirough.  http://fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora is horrible18:18
jspiroshould I mention to fedora some suggestions for improving that page?  or should I hope that it will confuse people and make them switch to ubuntu, which is a better distro?18:19
newz2000we're not competing with fedora18:19
newz2000I like mozilla's download page personally18:20
jspironewz2000: but the better their website gets, the more people will use fedora instead of ubuntu, no?18:20
newz2000I wish we could have that level of simplicty18:20
newz2000I'm more interested in converting people from windows than fedora18:20
Turlnewz2000, you could do geolocalization, there are good IP databases and they're like 99% accurate on country detection18:21
newz2000yes, that's my plan18:21
newz2000I actually just blogged about this a bit ago18:21
Turlit's just an API call/a sql query that you need to do18:22
jspiroI live in Canada.  When I click on Fedora's link to http://download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/9/Fedora/i386/iso/Fedora-9-i386-DVD.iso it seems to randomly point me to either http://less.cogeco.net's copy or http://www.muug.mb.ca's.  Both of those mirrors are in Canada.18:22
newz2000but even that makes it sound much simpler than it is18:22
newz2000yes, that's a cool system then18:22
newz2000right now we have a hard time delivering dynamic content to individual users. We are able to serve the immense amount of traffic by using several web caches18:23
Turlyou can talk with joaopinto on #getdeb to explain the dl system better, or you can see the download page code directly, there's a getdeb-web project on launchpad, and you can get the code with bzr18:23
newz2000the web caches mean that the backend systems don't know details about individual users (i.e. their location)18:24
newz2000hey LaserJock18:24
LaserJocksorry I've been away for a while18:25
LaserJocknewz2000: you get anywhere on an Edubuntu download thingy?18:25
newz2000no, we're stuck with the same system for now18:25
Turlnewz2000, maybe canonical can have a dedicate, uncached server/cluster for download that will run this script?18:25
Turljust for download redirecting18:26
newz2000Turl: it's a good idea. I've talked to the sysadmins and we'll discuss a solution for this later on this year I think.18:26
Turlanother solution is to send headers so the cache servers don't cache the redirect thing18:26
newz2000well, at that point its too late18:27
newz2000the back end servers need to know about the client before then18:27
jspiroI wonder what fedora does.18:27
newz2000It's a good question18:27
newz2000jspiro: are you on the web presence team's mailing list?18:27
jspironewz2000: no, and not really interested to join, why? :)18:28
newz2000I was going to suggest starting a conversation there so we'd have better record of it and broader involvement18:28
jspironewz2000: Turl: LaserJock: may I email a transcript of this conversation to there later?18:29
Turlno problem for me18:39
LaserJocksorry, none here either18:39
jspironewz2000: may I email a transcript of this conversation to there later?18:44
newz2000this channel is logged and is publicly available18:44
LaserJocknewz2000: would you foresee being able to have an Edubuntu download page prior to Jaunty?18:45
jspironewz2000: ah, I didn't know it from the topic.18:45
newz2000LaserJock: yes18:45
newz2000hi qense18:54
* jspiro goes off to #fedora-websites to ask them some questions18:58
jspirofedora uses a script which makes http://download.fedoraproject.org/ work.  in #fedora-websites they said:19:13
jspiro<ricky> Yes, it's open source: https://fedorahosted.org/mirrormanager  ; Matt Domsch (mdomsch in #fedora-admin) is the main person who wrote it19:14
jspiro 19:14
newz2000oh, I've actually looked at that in the past19:14
mmcgrathjspiro said you guys might be interested in Fedora's mirror setup.19:40
newz2000hi mmcgrath19:40
mmcgrathwe've got 4 proxy sites (dig mirrors.fedoraproject.org) each proxy server connects to a set of backend servers19:40
newz2000I did some reading on it, looks like an interesting solution19:40
mmcgrathThese backend servers are spread geographically similar to the proxy servers.  Each server has a local mirror cache so an outage at one site won't affect the others.19:41
mmcgrathhttps://admin.fedoraproject.org/haproxy/proxy1/ <-  One example.  mirror-lists is what you want.19:42
mmcgraththats half of the proxy hits at one site.  Some of our sites have multiple proxy servers.19:42
newz2000so you have a system in place where you have a URI to a downloadable file19:43
newz2000but that file may be served from one of several locations dependent on where in the world the end user is?19:43
mmcgrathyeah, part of that is apache mod_rewrite voodoo, and part is mirrormanager.  GeoIP determines where the user is.19:43
mmcgrathit tries to be smart about it, sometimes if there's not enough mirrors in a country it'll add locations near it.19:43
mmcgrathso depending on where you are - http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?arch=i386&repo=fedora-9 will return a different value19:44
mmcgrathyou can force it with http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?arch=i386&repo=fedora-9&country=de (the country= flag)19:44
mmcgrathalso we have the ability to have people redirect to local mirrors as well.  If you work at $SOME_PLACE and they have a few nat pools, you can have our mirror system return your local mirror even if its not public.19:45
mmcgrathsome places have reported major bw savings just by using that.19:45
newz2000are you the maintainer of the software that does this?19:46
mmcgrathThe main contact is Matt Domsch (of dell) mdomsch in #fedora-admin.  I've given a talk on it in the past, I might still have the paper and slides.  he's given some talks as well.19:46
newz2000mmcgrath: your name sounds familiar, are you affiliated with another project?19:47
mmcgrathI've talked with some of the Ubuntu guys in the past about smolt the hardware profiler.  Other then that I'm the Fedora Infrastructure Team Lead.19:48
newz2000My eventual goal is to get rid of the "choose a location" box on the ubuntu download page19:49
newz2000unfortunately I'm a web guy and the infrastructure stuff is not my strength19:49
newz2000I've talked to them about possible solutions and earlier today someone suggested what you guys have.19:49
newz2000right. :-)19:50
newz2000I've only briefly looked at it. I definitely want to show them how it works because it looks like a well thought out system19:50
jspiroi suggested it because i asked them what they use, and they said this is what they have.  :)19:50
mmcgrathIts been one of our more solid application, very few problems with it.19:51
newz2000I think what I need to do is show it to some others because it's a bit beyond me19:51
newz2000unfortunately today was a release and everyone is pretty much wiped out and gone for the day19:52

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