[01:31] <ryanakca> mdke: d'you have write access to the wiki themes? bug 253931 has been dragging around for three months...
[01:31] <ubot3> Malone bug 253931 in kubuntu-website "Documentation tab on http://wiki.kubuntu.org/ should be removed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253931
[03:10] <pufuwozu> I really like the http://ubuntu.com/ animations
[06:54] <mdke> ryanakca: no, sorry
[11:59] <tuxice> mpt?
[13:55] <ryanakca> mdke: thanks anyways :)
[13:56] <ryanakca> could you take care of bug 253931 and bug 255390 please?
[13:56] <ryanakca> newz2000: ^^
[13:56] <ubot3> Malone bug 253931 in kubuntu-website "Documentation tab on http://wiki.kubuntu.org/ should be removed" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/253931
[13:56] <ubot3> ryanakca: Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: The read operation timed out
[13:57] <newz2000> hey ryanakca, sorry I missed what was above, you'd like me to make a change to the wiki theme?
[13:57] <ryanakca> newz2000: please :)
[13:58] <ryanakca> same bugs I emailed you about a few months ago :)
[13:58]  * newz2000 hides in shame
[13:58] <newz2000> let me see if I still have edit permission on the wiki
[13:59] <ryanakca> thanks :)
[14:00] <newz2000> it's not looking good, I might need to file an RT to find out how todo this
[14:01] <ryanakca> Ok, thanks
[15:54] <qense> hello
[17:49] <Turl> newz2000, are you there?
[17:49] <newz2000> hey Turl
[17:49] <newz2000> I'm here
[17:49] <Turl> please, don't put me in a compromise :p
[17:49] <newz2000> what do you mean?
[17:50] <Turl> I received a mail from Kat
[17:50] <newz2000> oh, she's the one I said was so appreciative
[17:50] <Turl> she offered me some merchandise as a token of gratitude
[17:51] <newz2000> Wow, that's nice
[17:51] <newz2000> is there something wrong with that?
[17:51] <Turl> but I don't want to accept it, I don't think it's necessary nor I (I don't know the english word for it) "merecer" it
[17:52] <newz2000> That's fine, there's no shame in saying, "no thanks." I think it's noble.
[17:52] <Turl> ok then :)
[17:52] <Turl> I don't know how to write a "no thanks" letter, but I'll try to do my best :p
[17:54] <newz2000> so you're in Argentina, are you by chance in Beunos Aries? (sorry if I misspelled that)
[17:55] <Turl> nope, not in Buenos Aires
[17:56] <Turl> do you have offices there btw?
[17:56] <newz2000> not quite, there are four people from Canonical there, including one of my favourite web hackers in the company
[17:57] <Turl> :)
[17:57] <Turl> I used to live in BA
[17:57] <Turl> not in the capital city though
[19:08] <mdomsch> greetings
[19:08] <mdomsch> various fedora folks sent me here after there was some interest expressed in mirrormanager
[19:09] <mdomsch> I'm on IRC a good bit, so feel free to grab me anytime to discuss
[19:09] <mdomsch> I'd love for Ubuntu to make use of MM as a download redirector for ISOs
[19:10] <mdomsch> apt doesn't (presently) handle HTTP 30x redirects (seemingly by design) so it'd be harder to use MM to serve as an apt.sources.d/ entry
[19:11] <mdomsch> apt/sources.list.d/ that is
[19:13] <mdomsch> if apt grew the ability to retrieve a list of sources (e.g. a mirrorlist), then MM could easily provide such a list to clients on request.
[19:19] <newz2000> mdomsch: thanks for stopping in
[19:19] <newz2000> I'm very interested in investigating it. I've scheduled some time to meet with the IS team (our infrastructure guys) later on this year to work out possible solutions.
[19:19] <newz2000> We're not quite ready yet but it's something we're starting to think about
[19:20] <mdomsch> newz2000, ok, poke me if you have questions
[19:21] <newz2000> cool, I will
[19:21] <mdomsch> the only real PITA thing about MM is that it needs (at least r/o) access to a copy of the "master" content, however you want to define that
[19:21] <mdomsch> to know what remote mirrors should have
[19:21] <newz2000> oh, interesting
[19:21] <newz2000> we actually have something like that now built into launchpad
[19:22] <newz2000> it probes the mirrors continuously to see that they're up to date
[19:22] <newz2000> and it drops mirrors and brings them back up as appropriate
[19:22] <mdomsch> yep, MM does exactly taht
[19:22] <newz2000> my interest is in making it easier for people to get CDs
[19:22] <newz2000> I feel there are too many choices on the website
[19:23] <newz2000> I love mozilla's. They have everything filled out in advance so if you want the sane option you just click the big button
[19:23] <mdomsch> fedora is moving in that direction too
[19:23] <mdomsch> moving all the advanced user options to another page
[19:24] <mdomsch> bittorrent, various spins, manual mirror selection, ...
[19:24] <newz2000> the manual mirror selection is my next target
[19:24] <mdomsch> metalinks
[19:24] <newz2000> it's challenging because we have a very technical culture and we like to see technical stuff. :-) You know how it is I'm sure.
[19:26] <newz2000> mdomsch: so do you have rules for challenging locales, for example country X has no mirror and has poor international bandwidth unless it goes through Y
[19:26] <mdomsch> yes
[19:26] <newz2000> very interesting
[19:27] <mdomsch> only a few times we use it though
[19:27] <mdomsch> for example, per GeoIP, Israel is part of Asia
[19:27] <mdomsch> but it's connectivity is to Europe
[19:27] <mdomsch> so, we "move" Israel into the Europe continent list
[19:28] <mdomsch> basic algorithm is
[19:28] <mdomsch> 1) do you have a mirror on your local network (IP block)?  If so, use it
[19:28] <mdomsch> 2) do you have a mirror in your country?  If so, use it.
[19:28] <mdomsch> 3) do you have a mirror on your continent?
[19:28] <mdomsch> 4) use a mirror from the global list
[19:29] <mdomsch> for each answer above, randomly return one, weighted by the bandwidth that server has
[19:30] <newz2000> That's about what I'd worked out
[19:30] <newz2000> For a while I tested some ajax based javascript that pre-selected an option using similar rules
[19:30] <newz2000> someone convinced me the rules were way too complex though
[19:31] <newz2000> as in my rules weren't complex enough for reality
[19:31] <mdomsch> 1b) are you a client on Internet2 or another high-speed research/education network?  Try a mirror in your country on same
[19:32] <mdomsch> so students at universities and big labs get their bits over I2
[19:32] <mdomsch> NCREN, RedIRIS, NLR, ...
[19:33] <newz2000> mdomsch: so are you a web guy?
[19:33] <mdomsch> how so?
[19:33] <mdomsch> HTML/CSS, no
[19:33] <mdomsch> JavaScript, no
[19:34] <mdomsch> (my pages aren't very pretty, and what's there I had help with from graphic artists)
[19:34] <mdomsch> http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/
[19:34] <newz2000> I was thinking more along the lines of "interested in the user experience"
[19:37] <newz2000> I like your system. I like that disk image has a single url.
[19:37] <mdomsch> yeah, there are things like that I care a lot about
[19:37] <mdomsch> but artwork - I'm lousy at
[19:38] <newz2000> me too
[19:38] <newz2000> mdomsch: where in the world are you located?
[19:38] <mdomsch> now note - the single URL trick works great, but hitting it you get a HTTP 30x redirect to one of the mirrors
[19:38] <mdomsch> Austin, TX
[19:38] <mdomsch> so your client app has to handle redirects - apt doesn't
[19:39] <newz2000> well, the part I'm interested in is downloading CD images
[19:39] <mdomsch> all download tools I know of handle redirects
[19:39] <mdomsch> browsers, wget, curl, ...
[19:39] <newz2000> indeed
[19:40] <newz2000> I'm in Des Moines Iowa, due north from you. A fellow "central time zone" person
[19:41]  * mdomsch grew up in KC
[19:42] <mdomsch> I've been through Des Moines a lot going to MN
[19:42] <newz2000> it's a small world ;-)
[20:00] <ryanakca> newz2000: you still redoing the layout of the download page?
[20:01] <newz2000> my download page or yours?
[20:01] <ryanakca> newz2000: well, both... you had sent me a penned out mockup and asked for my opinion on it... that one?
[20:02] <newz2000> yes, the ubuntu.com one is done, I did not finish the kubuntu one in time
[20:02] <ryanakca> If you change yours, I'll almost surely change mine so that it matches
[20:02] <newz2000> you should check it out, also I blogged about it
[20:02] <newz2000> http://www.bearfruit.org/blog/2008/10/30/the-new-ubuntu-download-page
[20:03] <newz2000> Yours is easier because you only have two versions (no server)
[20:03] <newz2000> did you see the usability test results on the mailing list from Erik (sent yesterday)?
[20:03] <newz2000> very thought provoking feedback
[20:04]  * ryanakca has fallen behind on *buntu stuff over the past two weeks, need to catch up
[20:04]  * ryanakca fires up mutt
[20:11] <ryanakca> newz2000: I still think you should apply to Ubuntu Members btw :)
[20:11] <newz2000> yes, I should
[20:11] <newz2000> are you an ubuntu member?
[20:12] <ryanakca> newz2000: yes, through kubuntu-members
[20:13] <newz2000> you could blog about my blog post and also about Erik's usability testing. https://lists.canonical.com/archives/ubuntu-website/2008-October/000475.html
[20:13] <newz2000> it would be interesting to hear broader feedback
[20:13] <newz2000> ah, too bad the formatting of that message was poor
[20:13] <ryanakca> *nods*, will do.
[20:17]  * ryanakca thinks he'll also try to steal mdke's sweet wiki theme and change the colors to suit Kubuntu some time soon, if it hasn't been done already
[20:18] <newz2000> I don't think it's been done
[20:20] <ryanakca> Erik's thread is quite interesting
[20:21]  * ryanakca needs to fix the drupal theme too... it doesn't look it's best in IE6...
[20:21] <ryanakca> anyways, bbiab
[20:21] <newz2000> ttyl
[20:23] <newz2000> wow, pidgin is crashing on me a lot lately
[20:48] <Turl> it used to crash more often in intrepid alphas :p
[20:49] <newz2000> well, improvement is good I guess
[20:50] <Turl> yeah
[20:50]  * Turl tries to set up sendmail
[20:51] <newz2000> yuck, why sendmail?
[20:51] <Turl> erm, it's the best? postfix was too difficult and complicated :p
[20:51] <Turl> also, sendmail works in php afaik
[20:52] <newz2000> they all work with php. postfix and exim are both sendmail compatible
[20:52] <Turl> qmail?
[20:52] <newz2000> I've never used it. When I evaluated it a while back it was non-free
[20:52] <newz2000> (don't know if it is now or not)
[20:52] <Turl> what one would you recommend then? I'm on a debian etch box
[20:53] <newz2000> exim is one of the simplest, but my fav is postfix.
[20:53] <newz2000> sendmail is a major chore to reconfigure with it's m4 files and etc.
[20:53] <Turl> postfix is a pain in the neck :p
[20:53] <newz2000> well, for most tasks postfix installation asks you what type of configuration you want. You choose from a list of about four options and you're done.
[20:54] <Turl> erm, no user login, no tls, ...
[20:54] <newz2000> well, if you get frustrated with sendmail then maybe try exim. It is probably the simplest out there.
[20:55] <Turl> I just need something simple, php compatible that works with vBulletin and it's easy to configure and (not obligation) has a webmin module
[20:55] <Turl> and sends mail (no need to receive)
[20:55] <newz2000> ah, if you're using webmin then sendmail will be OK since it hides the gory details
[20:57] <newz2000> I'm running windows in a virtual machine (for web testing) and I think it's locked up and taken one of my virtual desktops with it. :-/
[20:57] <Turl> :p using seamless aren't you?
[20:57] <newz2000> yes
[20:58] <Turl> press host key + s
[20:58] <Turl> iirc it should make windows a window :p
[20:58]  * newz2000 tries
[20:59] <newz2000> its really frozen. The only thing that works is blindly clicking until you hit the workspace picker applet to get to a diff desktop
[21:01] <Turl> hostk + f ?
[21:01] <newz2000> I don't think the window is responding to any keyboard shortcuts.
[21:01] <Turl> if it doesn't work then the best solution is change desktop, run a console, sudo htop and kill all those virtualboxes
[21:02] <newz2000> ah
[21:02] <newz2000> computer is happy now. ;-)
[21:03] <Turl> beware your windows might break :p (well, there's always the possibility heh, even if idle)
[21:04] <Turl> :/ webmin crashed or sth :S