[13:36] <asac> crimsun: so you have any instructions what I should ask when I get bugs like: bug 279346
[13:36] <asac> in intrepid?
[13:36] <asac> e.g. what debugging informationn do you want to get collected up front?
[13:37] <asac> i regular see such bugs, but have no idea what to ask for :)
[14:24] <fta> hi
[14:27] <asac> hi fta
[14:27] <asac> i made the 17k ;)
[14:27] <asac> bug karma
[14:28] <fta> :)
[14:36] <sebner> asac: installing lame hardy version also didn't fix it :\ , but /me already prepared a SRU for another package today ^^
[17:04] <fta> mozilla bug 448680
[17:06] <fta> crimsun, sound is broken once again in ff3.1, i get 1 sec of sound then silence, yet the video continues
[17:06] <fta> crimsun, playing http://www.double.co.nz/video_test/test1.html
[17:08] <fta> mozilla Bug 461344
[17:12] <fta> asac, my total is still below 17k :P
[17:16] <asac> fta: yeah. but srsly i did about 40h bug triaging in the last 58h or so ;)
[17:17] <asac> and probably gained at max 1k for that really heroish work
[17:17] <asac> if not only 600K
[17:17] <asac> err 600
[17:17] <fta> complain to lp guys
[17:17] <fta> my definition of karma is different from theirs
[17:18] <fta> a karma should not decrease after 6 months if you continue to work at the same pace
[17:19] <fta> basically, our drops are the reflection of our past activities, this is non sense
[17:20] <asac> yeah. ... its more like a trailing average
[17:20] <fta> karma should only decrease if you're doing nothing, not if you worked harder in the past
[17:21] <asac> welll ... you could have a long term average (which probably is more what you have now)
[17:21] <asac> and a "current" pace indicator
[17:22] <asac> the current approach is about "defeating" karma you earned in the past and if you are brave even building on top
[17:22] <fta> well, today, if you earn 10 points for something, in 6 months from now, it will be divided by 10, then expire
[17:23] <asac> fta: well but think that you do a bunch of work 6 month ago ... and then you only do a bit work
[17:23] <asac> karma should then decrease right?
[17:24] <asac> if you never decrease as long as some work is happening you can easily keep your karma and rest forever ;)
[17:24] <fta> yes but not proportionally to what you've gained
[17:24] <asac> yeah. its difficult ;)
[17:25] <fta> do a wonderful job for zillions of stuff, then stop for a year, you're back to zero, same as someone doing nothing
[17:26] <asac> yeah
[17:26] <fta> yet, i feel your karma should be higher
[17:26] <asac> i think it shouldnt be that bad
[17:26] <asac> i mean ... the decreaes should be slower than the increase
[17:26] <asac> but i think that was in the past
[17:26] <fta> indeed
[17:27] <asac> and people like seb and pitti had karma more than a million
[17:27] <asac> which was perceived as demotivating for people that cannot spend that much time
[17:27] <fta> true
[17:27] <asac> so current approach gives more incentive to short term contributors
[17:27] <asac> than long term
[17:27] <asac> e.g. if you start it goes up quick
[17:27] <asac> afterwards it fighting against decay ;)
[17:29] <Nafallo> asac: the main Swedish translator was number one, since all his work got committed via tarballs ;-)
[17:32] <asac> heh
[17:32] <asac> but i think that rosetta isnt that fruitful anymore
[17:32] <sebner> asac: ripping is working again (you have to activate "Create Wave Header" in the config. but the result is only noise :(
[17:33] <asac> good
[17:33] <asac> most likely a compression thing then
[17:33] <sebner> asac: apachelogger told me that something inside k3b responsible for that is pretty b0rken ^^  damn :(
[17:37] <asac> k
[17:46] <asac> fta: is tbird 3 from your archive usable for reading imap stuff?
[17:47] <asac> damn ... archive.u.c is still completely utilized
[17:47] <asac> hmm 70k now
[17:47] <asac> thats more or less ok
[17:47] <Nafallo> really? :-P
[17:47] <asac> at least to not fall asleep before it finishes ;)
[17:48] <asac> Nafallo: well better than the 980B/s i had in the beginning
[17:48] <Nafallo> I got like my 4Mbps before...
[17:48] <asac> hmm
[17:48] <fta> asac, try it
[17:48] <asac> Nafallo: so you say its on my side or you are directly in the center?
[17:49] <asac> fta: Need to get 12.1MB of archives.
[17:49] <asac> After this operation, 36.9MB of additional disk space will be used.
[17:49] <asac> WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! thunderbird-3.0
[17:49] <Nafallo> asac: hehe. not on the switch now, no. from home.
[17:49] <asac> Install these packages without verification [y/N]? y
[17:49] <asac> Get:1 http://ppa.launchpad.net intrepid/main thunderbird-3.0 3.0~b1~hg20081031r785+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~fta2 [12.1MB]
[17:49] <asac> Nafallo: so its my sucky provider again
[17:49] <asac> but i think i found a new provider that provides cable stuff here
[17:50] <Nafallo> 9 hops to the archive.... SRSLY!
[17:50] <asac> well it wasnt possible before in my particular hous ;)
[17:50] <fta> still slow for me too Fetched 17.8MB in 35s (506kB/s)
[17:50] <asac> fta: well 500K is still ok
[17:50]  * Nafallo turns on name resolution
[17:50] <asac> i usually have ~1000K
[17:50] <Nafallo> baah. Level3. ✁☹
[17:50] <asac> fta: does tbird 3 do the same profile wisdom we do for other previews?
[17:51] <asac> or should i backup my profile?
[17:51] <Nafallo> lol. drescher :-)
[17:51] <fta> it's a clone
[17:51] <Nafallo> nice
[17:51] <asac> fta: well. so it creates a copy?
[17:51] <fta> yes
[17:51] <asac> ok ... just starting then
[17:51] <asac> "Starting Schredder"
[17:52] <fta> damn, i broke xul
[17:53] <asac> fta: what can i do with the tab?
[17:54] <fta> open more ? :)
[17:55] <fta> why is my prerm thing not ok...
[17:58] <asac> fta: how to open more tabs?
[17:59] <asac> ok cool
[17:59] <asac> i think i can use shredder for bug stuff now
[17:59] <asac> only feature i am missing is to show a full threawd inline
[17:59] <asac> e.g. click on one threawd element and get all messages displayed in message view
[18:00] <fta> yep
[18:00] <fta> is prerm called after install ??
[18:01] <asac> fta: which prerm?
[18:01] <fta> generally speaking
[18:01] <asac> i think in some situation prerm is called
[18:01] <asac> let me think ;)
[18:02] <fta> i thought prem was called against the old version during upgrades, before new files are installed
[18:02] <asac> fta: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html 6.5
[18:03] <asac> in general yes. but in error cases this can become tricky i think
[18:03] <asac> e.g. see 6.6
[18:03] <asac> i think prerm is unlikely to be called after install
[18:04] <fta> then there's a bug
[18:04] <asac> if you have a simple test case let me know ;)
[18:04] <fta> xulrunner-1.9.1.prerm:
[18:04] <fta> if [ "$1" = "remove" ] || [ "$1" = upgrade ]; then
[18:04] <fta>         rm -f /etc/gre.d/1.9.1b2pre.system.conf
[18:04] <fta> fi
[18:05] <asac> fta: we shouldnt do that
[18:05] <asac> we should use the configure status
[18:05] <fta> i upgrade a b2pre to another b2pre, the file is gone
[18:05] <asac> and only remove those that are obsolete and dont have a md5sum mismatch
[18:05] <asac> fta: well if you remove it that way, dpkg will think the user removed it
[18:05] <asac> and will hold back the "new" file
[18:05] <fta> oh
[18:06] <asac> fta: look at dpkg --status xulrunner-1.9.1
[18:06] <asac> the conffile should be modified by user there
[18:07] <asac> fta: i think what we have to do is in postinst
[18:07] <asac> and there we have to check the status and remove all Obsolete configs
[18:07] <asac> that are not modified
[18:07] <asac> everything else will be handled by dpkg
[18:08] <fta> currently, it's not; i have zillions of files in /etc/gre.d/
[18:08] <asac> fta: there is a good wiki page in debian on that
[18:08] <asac> fta: yes i know
[18:08] <asac> thats on my list
[18:08] <asac> if you want to fix it, parse the status and check md5sums in postinst for Obsolete config files
[18:08] <asac> and remove them if they are not modified
[18:10] <asac> james_w: where is that debian wiki page for config file handling in maintainer script again?
[18:10] <asac> james_w: nevermind have it
[18:10] <asac> fta: http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling
[18:10] <asac> thats the basic approach
[18:10] <fta> ok, i'll have a look
[18:10] <asac> what we should do is always check all xulrunner-1.9.1 and xulrunner-1.9 conffiles that way
[18:10] <asac> and remove them with that pattern
[18:10] <asac> fta: e.g. copy rm_conffile from there
[18:10] <asac> and use that
[18:12] <asac> fta: cool.
[18:12] <asac> fta: we also want those on the 1.9 branches
[18:12] <asac> in case you are at it ;)
[18:12] <asac> but probably not in stable branches
[18:12] <asac> otoh ;)
[18:20] <asac> fta: you think its impossible to build dom-inspector for tbird?
[18:20] <asac> i mean as a -dom-inspector package?
[18:20] <asac> i think i dumped that at some point during 2.0
[18:20] <asac> as it was broken since late 1.5
[18:21] <asac> but now that i use shredder for bugs i would like to add some features and DOM inspector would help ;)
[18:21] <fta> the xul one should work
[18:21] <asac> hmm
[18:21] <fta> providing maxversion is fine
[18:21] <asac> fta: do we ship that with targetapplication toolkit@mozilla.org?
[18:21] <asac> fta: we should fix that. instead of adding all the targetapps just add that
[18:22] <fta> oh, i didn't add the xuladdon path
[18:23] <fta> let me fix xul 1st
[18:23] <asac> fta: ok works fine
[18:23] <asac> fta: while you are at it :) ... replace the ffox targetapplication with toolkit@mozilla.org and min 1.9.1a1 and max 1.9.1.*
[18:23] <asac> or
[18:24] <asac> 1.9.1.0a1 ... not sure
[18:24] <asac> fta: until we use system xul we could then ship a tbird-dom-inspector package that just adds a link
[18:25] <asac> fta: do we have thunderbird-addons too?
[18:25] <asac> fta: hmm. we should do that at least i guess
[18:29] <asac> fta: hmm gnome-support isnt working?
[18:29] <asac> it doesnt honour my gnome preferred browser
[18:29] <asac> ok installing it would help ;)(
[18:30] <asac> hmm still doesnt work
[18:30] <fta> what is $LASTVERSION in http://wiki.debian.org/DpkgConffileHandling ?
[18:31] <asac> fta: /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.0.3/components/libnkgnomevfs.so
[18:31] <asac> that is missing in tbird gnome support
[18:31] <asac> fta: for our case LASTVERSION doesnt matter ... does it?
[18:32] <asac> fta: thats only an example ... usually you do this migration stuff only once
[18:32] <asac> e.g. when you upgrade from something lower or equal the last version
[18:32] <asac> butin our case we want to remove all obsolete configs all the time
[18:32] <asac> if they dont have md5sum mismatch of course
[18:32] <asac> fta: so just dont if dpkg ---compare-version
[18:33] <asac> fta: hmm
[18:33] <asac> fta: now that i look ... its a bit different for us
[18:33] <fta> yep
[18:33] <asac> fta:  i think you will figure. we want to remove all obsolet that are not modified
[18:33] <asac> shoudl be simple ;)
[18:33] <asac> dpkg-query is a good start i guess
[18:34] <crimsun> asac: RE bug 279346, ask that the reporter does not have an ~/.asoundrc, that the reporter has libasound2-plugins installed.  It /can/ be a pulseaudio issue; please ask the reporter to try the pulseaudio deb in my PPA.  [If it in turn is a pa issue, then it's better in luke's 0.9.13 PPA debs.]
[18:34] <asac> fta: $ dpkg-query -W -f='${Conffiles}' xulrunner-1.9 | grep obsolete
[18:35] <asac> those we want to check with md5sum and remove
[18:35] <asac> and 1.9.1 of coruse
[18:38] <fta> yeah, already done, testing now
[18:39] <asac> crimsun: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MozillaTeam/Bugs/FlashAnswers
[18:39] <asac>  ;)
[18:39] <crimsun> :-)
[18:39] <asac> crimsun: anything the people should add? e.g. like sound card or so?
[18:40] <crimsun> asac: I don't think so
[18:40] <asac> crimsun: so what should happen i nwhat case? if your packages fix it -> alsa-plugins bug?
[18:41] <asac> if themuso fixes it -> pulseaudio
[18:41] <asac> if 1. or 2 -> invalid ;)
[18:42] <crimsun> asac: well, it's always tied to pulseaudio somehow.  intrepid's pa has stability problems (known); luke's PPA debs resolve many of those crashers.  sometimes reporters have stale ~/.asoundrc*, which mucks up things.
[18:42] <asac> fta: we have official branding in desktop menu, but the ugly letter as window icon ...is that a bug in packaging (e.g. gnome official icon) or in tbird?
[18:45] <fta> i don't remember, i'll check. i'm multi-tasking by 4 right now :S
[18:45] <asac> crimsun: ok i will do the first round then only i gues ... just wanted to do something instead of just reassigning somewhere ;)
[18:45] <asac> fta: thats good ... multi stuff keeps you younger than felt ;)
[19:04] <fta> damn, the file is now removed for good
[19:09] <asac> fta: i need gnome support quick ;)
[19:09] <asac> i cannot select a binary manualkly because file dialog crashes ;)
[19:10] <fta> strange, noone reported that to me
[19:10] <asac> fta: click link so you get asked for application ...
[19:10] <asac> then in file chooser type
[19:10] <asac> ctrl+l
[19:10] <asac> -> /usr/bin/firefox (hit enter)
[19:10] <asac> freeze + crash
[19:11] <asac> hmm
[19:11] <asac> this reminds me of bugs i read against ffox 3.0 today in launchpad
[19:11] <asac> they said that they cannot save files anymore because file chooser freezes stuff
[19:13] <asac> bug 274661
[19:13] <asac> but thats not the bug i ment
[19:15] <asac> strange cant find it anymore .)
[19:33] <fta> asac,  $ wget -qO- http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19186453/buildlog_ubuntu-intrepid-i386.thunderbird-3.0_3.0~b1~hg20081031r785%2Bnobinonly-0ubuntu1~fta2_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz | zgrep -c nkgnomevf
[19:33] <fta> 0
[19:34] <fta> so libnkgnomevfs.so is not even built
[19:59] <asac> fta: hmm
[19:59] <asac> fta: and gnome-vfs?
[20:00] <asac> fta: maybe we need to enable gnomevfs
[20:00] <asac> fta: usually it was --eanble-gconf --eanble-gnomevfs
[20:01] <fta> i'm sure i had that.. strangely, it's gone
[20:01] <fta> how could i force my gre file to be reinstalled ?
[20:02] <asac> fta: --purge
[20:02] <asac> install ;)
[20:02] <asac> (old)
[20:03] <asac> fta: or try to be hacky and manipulate Conffiles in dpkg status file
[20:03] <asac> manually
[20:03] <asac> and reinstall after that
[20:03] <asac> /var/lib/dpkg/status
[20:03] <asac> but if it breaks dont blame me ;)
[20:04] <fta> there's no api to add a file in there ?
[20:05] <asac> fta: mvo said "dpkg comes from hell" ;)
[20:06] <asac> that made me believe keeping it as a blackbox might be beneficial
[20:21] <asac> fta: here is the crasher bug :) ... i think: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/288529
[20:22] <asac> the file dialog thing
[20:24] <asac> renamed now ... https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/288529
[20:29] <asac> fta: also track seb128 for karma ;)
[20:29] <asac> i want to detect manipulation ;)
[20:29] <fta> done
[20:38] <asac> fta: tomorrow is meeting ;)
[20:38] <asac> in case you forgot
[20:38] <fta> yep, got the remainder
[20:57] <fta> ix:~$ lsb_release -c
[20:57] <fta> Codename:       jaunty
[21:28] <fta> asac, libnkgnomevfs.so is a browser thing, not xul, hence not tb
[21:37] <fta> mozilla bug 461399
[21:42] <Jazzva> asac, I'll skip the meeting :(. I have to go to a friend...
[22:24] <fta> [reed], is hg.m.o dead?
[23:34] <fta> asac, > 45k
[23:35] <fta> asac, i just passed 13k :(
[23:52] <fta> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/xul-explorer/xul-explorer.head