[00:18] That'd be a bug then because fish is pretty ancient. [00:18] It ought to work with sftp. [00:28] When does merging start? [00:28] ryanakca: Once Jaunty opens. Not sure exactly when that'll be. [00:29] ryanakca: In the mean time, send bugs with patches to Debian so maybe it's more syncing and less merging. [00:29] ScottK: *nods*, will do [00:29] thanks [00:38] ScottK: Nov 6 i think? [00:38] * DaSkreech agrees [00:39] seele: For what? Sorry. [00:40] * DaSkreech agrees with that statement as well [00:40] hah [00:40] Jaunty opens, heh. I guess context helps [00:41] OK. [00:43] wow, awesomeness -- Xon/Xoff flowcontrol in Konsole results in a cute little FYI bar to tell you what's going on [00:43] yet another *nice* touch [00:49] seele: I thought you might find http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001182.html interesting. [00:52] ScottK: ooo, that book looks interesting [00:52] * seele wonders if they cover 7+-2 [00:53] oh ho ho, that just reminded me to buy i book i have a 40% coupon for which expires today [00:54] the book is normally 149 but the coupon takes $60 off [01:15] That's a pretty good deal [01:15] Oh expires today [01:16] I was going to say wait till the book dropped to 50 dollars then get them to pay you 10 dollars to take it [01:20] is bug #292403 really adepts fault? rather than apt? [01:20] Launchpad bug 292403 in adept "MASTER firefox 3.03 in kubuntu 8.10 requires gnome apps" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292403 [01:20] it's not going to drop in price any time soon, it was just published last year [01:23] ah right [01:23] Wait [01:23] expires today? [01:23] how are you going to make use of it? [01:24] DaSkreech: They have this thing called the Internet and it has stores. [01:24] ;-) === echidnaman is now known as JontheEchidna [02:10] lol [02:14] Which store sells this internet? [03:02] * ScottK ponders a competition for the most sarcastic answer to the latest post to kubuntu-devel ML. [03:02] Prize? [03:03] Haven't gotten that far. [03:03] Too distracted by kdiamond. [03:03] MMM [03:03] trunk? [03:08] No, Intrepid. [03:08] 4.1.2 [03:08] Playing, not packaging. [03:08] Well You can have trunk and play it :) it's nice on trunk [03:09] DaSkreech: This is the laptop I use for $WORK. No trunk on it. [03:09] Hmm I might get a laptop [03:09] * DaSkreech dislikes laptops [03:21] yuriy's entry seems not at all sarcastic. [03:24] hmm kdemultimedia/kmix defines the increaseVolume calls and the dbus interface [03:24] canada. You would have thougth he was more clueful. [03:24] what is the package that contains what actually maps the buttons to those dbus calls? [03:25] IIRC it was kmilo that did it in KDE3 [03:27] ah, found it. [03:27] What is it? [03:27] kscd in kdemultimedia [03:27] We had a kmilo-kde4 for a while in Hardy, but it's gone now ... [03:27] registers it as a global keybinding [03:28] Ah. [03:28] now to trace the codepath [03:28] wait that's not right [03:29] + connect(globalAction, SIGNAL(triggered(bool) ), SLOT(slotIncreaseVolume())); [03:29] that's what I want [03:29] introduced by magical debian/patches/kubuntu_02_kmix_keyboard_shortcuts.diff [03:29] oh PFFT FFS! [03:29] +void KMixWindow::slotIncreaseVolume() [03:29] [snip] [03:29] + mixer->setMute("Master:0", false); //FIXME, don't hardcode deviceids [03:30] + mixer->increaseVolume("PCM:0"); [03:30] I wonder why it defaulst to PCM... [03:31] * ScottK figures it's a good bet you're in the right area when the line before says FIXME [03:32] :) [03:32] Next question is, is it changed in KDE 4.1.3? [03:33] well considering this is a kubuntu patch, I'm not sure [03:33] Probably not. [03:33] while I hack at this code to get the right behavior, would you mind checking if the 4.1.3 packaging is any different? [03:33] you'd know better than me where to look [03:34] jdong: vorian is going to check. [03:34] * vorian waves [03:34] :D [03:35] jdong: can you get me a paste of your trace? [03:35] I don't believe we did any fixing for patches in 4.1.3 [03:35] rrrr [03:36] in kdemultimedia [03:36] i was going to check the source [03:36] well I haven't checked either but I don't *think* we did [03:36] righto [03:36] mixer->setMute("Master:0", false); //FIXME, don't hardcode deviceids [03:36] mixer->increaseVolume("PCM:0"); [03:36] it would be fun if patches maintained themselves :P [03:37] vorian: stuff that looks like that. just grep for PCM:0 in debian/patches :) [03:37] oh nice [03:37] yeah, only keyboard patches [03:39] not much changed either in 4.1.3 [03:40] This is a regression from KDE3/Hardy that a lot of people have complained about, so if we could include a fix in our 4.1.3 upload, that'd be really kewl. [03:43] ohmy [03:43] /// @DCOP WHAT DOES THIS METHOD?!?!? [03:48] ok, gonna do a quick testbuild and see if this changes anything meaningful :D [03:49] am I crazy, or are ctrl-pgup/pgdn inverted when switching konsole tabs? [03:49] i.e. pgup moves right and pgdn moves left, counterintuitive to what I expected [03:51] nice, y'all use cmake with percentage indication [03:51] (doesn't it give you a warm and fuzzy feeling that some clueless GNOME fanboy is patching your code? :D) [03:52] jdong: near as I recall that's an old bug. You can swap them yourself I think [03:52] DaSkreech: by... redefining 3 hotkeys explicitly, yeah [03:53] DaSkreech: I'm trying to get it to read the master channel preference in kmix [03:53] which is what it should do intuitively [03:53] to my humble eye it doesn't seem like an "old bug" as much as the old bug was ported over to KDE4 in a new and blunter way :) [03:53] :-0 [03:53] ;-) [03:53] :) [03:57] DaSkreech: oh wait you mean the konsole thing [03:57] sorry I was talking about the kmix thing :) [03:57] :-) [03:57] well... at any rate, it would be nice to have it fixed correctly :D [03:57] Hey is there a GUI wine thing? [03:57] I seem to remember there being one [03:57] * DaSkreech wants working sound [03:58] System settings used to have a Wine entry [03:59] grumble one day I should just properly set up a COW thingie. [03:59] this whole tmpfs+/var/cache unionfs thing is just silly [04:00] DaSkreech: nope, didn't port that [04:00] Damn [04:00] NEed to remember the command line setup then [04:01] winecfg not good enough? [04:01] That was it winecfg!! [04:01] guidance-wineconfig was basically winecfg with the theme-color getter iirc [04:01] which was a very handy feature :) [04:01] * yuriy should just turn that into a script [04:02] What's Wine-auto ? [04:03] wow, no FTBFS yet. [04:03] In kernel? [04:03] * JontheEchidna -> bed [04:03] kmix :) [04:03] ok :-) [04:03] yup it made it past kmix [04:03] now the question is, is this fix gonna work? :) [04:07] well it's 95% correct. [04:07] or 50% correct normalized more rudely [04:07] you can only crank it up [04:07] oh duh [04:07] [04:07] void KMixWindow::slotDecreaseVolume() [04:07] + mixer->increaseVolume(master->id()); [04:08] Funny part with my kmix is that I need to turn down the volume on Videos to hear anything [04:16] ScottK: almost got final verification of fix, just involves an updated kubuntu_02_bleh.patch [04:16] what's your preferred way of submitting the patch? [04:19] confirmed, fixed. [04:19] hotkeys now follow whatever the master channel is set as in kmix :) [04:21] jdong: apachelogger has been coordinating the 4.1.3 preps. I'd ask him, but in the meantime, I'm sure there's a bug you could attach the patch to. [04:21] yeah I'm gonna pick bug 267245 [04:21] Launchpad bug 267245 in kdemultimedia "Keyboard volume keys only change PCM volume" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267245 [04:21] looks to be the most triaged of the dupes [04:23] jdong: We'll have additional monthly 4.1.x updates we're feeding into Intrepid, so if there's more stuff like this, we've got good targets for getting the fixes deployed. [04:25] ScottK: awesome. Patch attached to bug 267245; I see that Riddell assigned himself to the bug so hopefully whoever can get the fix in will get the message :) [04:25] Launchpad bug 267245 in kdemultimedia "Keyboard volume keys only change PCM volume" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267245 [04:35] Is ark broken? [04:37] DaSkreech: 'Lacking some features of ark for KDE3' [04:37] DaSkreech: What specifically? [04:37] :-) Like making an archive? [04:38] .tar.gz support got stuffed in at the vary last minute, so if that's what you're trying, I'd try a different format. .bz2 is more mature. [04:38] Wha'ts the workflow to make one? [04:39] Dunno. I haven't actually had to do it. [04:39] Short story is that nothing seems to work [04:40] mmkay, so next up: brightness keys!1 [04:40] * jdong is gonna fix ALL of KDE4 tonight ;-) [04:41] Those mostly work and are controlled by Guidance Power Manager. [04:41] jdong: You can't possibly :) [04:41] So please don't be breaking them what do work already. [04:41] hmm my macbook keys aren't working at all [04:41] but they do work in GNOME [04:41] OK. Then go for it. [04:42] guidance has working brightness sliders in its UI [04:42] just need to figure out why the keymappings don't [04:42] Excellent. [04:43] * DaSkreech is not aware of how this works [04:43] If we add features but don't bump a version would it be accepted in Ibex? [04:44] DaSkreech: It depends on what you mean. [04:44] In general new features are out. [04:44] If it's a regression from Hardy KDE3, then maybe. [04:44] If Jdong fixes all of KDE4 tonight can we ship those changes now in Ibex ? [04:45] Yeah. He's bug fixing. That's fine. We're prep'ing 4.1.3 for intrepid-updates now. [04:45] Ahh Ok :0 [04:45] Sweet [04:45] Forward port the changed to trunk :) [04:46] Yep. [04:46] So far he fixed a Kubuntu specific patch, so nothing to forward. [04:47] * DaSkreech is almost anxious for KDE 4.2 to be out [04:48] We'll put that in intrepid-backports once it's released. [05:40] mornfall: Is there any support in Adept 3 for installing from pinned repositories (like backports.org for example)? [05:41] Not that I know of. [05:42] mornfall: We're looking at reworking how backports works in Ubuntu to make it easier to get one package out of Ubuntu backports and not all of the updates. [05:43] Would there be any chance of getting something in the Jaunty timeframe? [05:43] And the timeframe is? [05:45] The next Ubuntu release, so released 6 months from now. [05:45] Ideally we'd get feature work done in the next 3 months or so. [05:46] mornfall: Feature Freeze is February 19th [05:47] Well, if I get a concise list of what's needed, I can try to come up with something over the winter holidays or so. [05:47] mornfall: OK. We're still working it out. Thanks. [05:48] I'll have to set some priorities and drop everything that's not important enough. [05:48] Understand. Isn't that how it always works ... [05:48] Sort of, yes. [06:51] hi there [06:51] hai [09:01] morning [09:01] morning Riddell [09:07] Riddell: I had trouble building kde this WE. So I have no update on the bluetooth issue yet. [09:07] * hunger will continue to try building trunk. [10:09] if I'm added a translatable string in a patch to a KDE 4 package, do I just wrap in i18n() or do I need to do something else to get the translations updated? [10:14] you're adding a translatable string to intrepid? [10:20] smarter: yes [10:20] bug #290589 [10:20] Launchpad bug 290589 in kde4libs "Long dbus command displayed on dialog when trying to mount hard drive via dolphin" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/290589 [10:22] stdin: KDE uses extract-messages.sh $srcdir/Messages.sh to create the pot file [10:23] but imho the best way to do that is to fill a bug upstream and send your patch [10:23] (btw, most users won't know what "hal" is and why it needs privileges :P) [10:23] it's not an upstream issue, it's an issue with one of our patches [10:25] oh [10:25] looks like extract-messages.sh gets run in kde4.mk anyway, so that would export the strings to launchpad [10:26] ... I think [10:26] or is that just .destkop files [11:44] wow, webkit in konq is real nice, shame about the missing flash though. [11:47] jussi01: using svn or our packages? [12:02] Riddell: just the webkitkde package of ours [12:03] it actually renders the pages correctly, which is really nice for a change... [12:08] Riddell: if it had plugin availability, Ie flash, java etc, I would then find konqui actually useful for web browsing - (based on about an hour of use mind you) === me___ is now known as apachelogger_ [13:03] ScottK: are you still having trouble with kmail crashing on close? [13:04] ack.. my calendar converted to UTC. [13:08] seele: It's been quite some time since I rebooted/closed it, so no idea. I'd be suprised if it didn't happen since it's happened with the current version. [13:16] ScottK: did you try with 4.1.3? [13:16] apachelogger_: No. I'm waiting until 4.1.3 hits -proposed to install it so I can count as an official "It works" for SRU verification. [13:17] okies [13:19] apachelogger_: Did yo usee jdong's volume key patch? [13:23] no, wasn't able to check quasse yet [13:23] still @work [13:25] apachelogger_: OK. Just want to make sure we roll it into the 4.1.3 upload since it fixes a regression. [13:27] can do [13:34] ive been visiting kubuntu.net wondering why there is no mention of the intrepid release.. and now i see there is kubuntu.org [13:34] so whats happened with kubuntu.net ? [13:35] exobuzz: sysadmins failed to update it when new website came on, I have an outstanding rt ticket with them about it [13:36] oh [13:37] I'll add poking sysadmins to my todo list :) [13:38] * apachelogger_ didn't even know there was kubuntu.net [13:38] thanks [13:38] i thought kubuntu.net was the main site [13:38] :) [13:40] it does seem kindof silly there are two kubuntu sites like that [13:41] kubuntu.net should just redirect to kubuntu.org... [13:41] maybe its a website marketing ploy [13:41] ;-) [13:53] What's the standard answer for people who complain about Katapult is missing in KDE4? [13:54] "use krunner" ? [13:54] just tell them to press alt+f2 ;-) [13:55] use katapult [13:56] JontheEchidna: Thanks. [13:56] apachelogger_: ? [14:08] !info katapult [14:08] Package katapult does not exist in intrepid [14:08] hm, apparently it got removed [14:12] apachelogger_: Yes. It's KDE3 only. It looks like the alt-F2 thing is a reasonable replacement (not identical, so people will scream). [14:14] I've heard good things about krunner from katapult users in #kubuntu [14:14] it does pretty much the same thing, it just looks a little different and i think the shortcuts are a littls different [14:14] but then again I've heard good things about KDE4 there too ;) [14:15] you have to type =1+2 instead of just 1+2 [14:16] Would it make sense to have krunner 'replace' katapult in a packaging sense? My upgraded system still had a non-working katapult installed after the upgrade. [14:18] I suppose a conflict/replace on it in kdebase-workspace-bin would do the trick [14:18] well technically it doesn't conflict [14:19] Not sure. [14:19] doesn't make sense [14:19] krunner depends half of kdebase-workspace [14:19] I do think finding a way to get non-working KDE3 stuff off of systems that upgrade is generically good. [14:19] unlike katapult which only required kdelibs IIRC [14:20] ScottK: update-manager would remove packages which were removed from the archives I think [14:20] Well it doesn't exist in a KDE4 version and the KDE3 version doesn't work, so it ought to go somehow. [14:20] why does the katapult KDE 3 version not work btw? [14:21] apachelogger_: Nope. This was part of the idea behind the currently much maligned 'cruft cleaner' [14:21] For the one test I gave it, it looked on the wrong place for the binary and failed. [14:21] So it runs, it just didnd't know how to launch stuff. [14:22] That's fairly fatal given it's purpose. [14:22] sounds weird though [14:22] Dunno. I've removed it now, so it'd be a pain to put it back. [14:23] * ScottK wonders why mez is blogging on planed KDE about his Gnome install. [15:19] hi guys, is there any news regarding when bluetooth will be available for 8.10 ? [15:28] rien-ne-va-plus: It's being actively worked. I asked one of the people working on it late last week and they said at least a couple more weeks. [15:30] ScottK: thanks for the info - ill try gnome-bluez then [15:34] apachelogger: It turned out I had katapult running still. It appears it still works for kde3 apps and fails on kde4 apps (looks at /usr/lib/kde4/bin/kate for example) [15:37] ScottK, yes I can confirm that, I've got the same problem, but for now I'm just using the search in K-Menu or krunner, not that bad, works fine or me [15:37] *for [15:41] emonkey: katapult is kde3 only, so you'd best start geting used to those alternatives. They're the way of the future.... [15:41] Yes I practice that for about a week [16:20] I have a conundrum... I can get my strings in solid translated, but it'll require linking solid against kdecore [17:08] ScottK: probably some stupid patch [17:08] there is no reason why it would look in usr/lib/kde4/bin [17:12] Nightrose: ETA for beta3? [17:13] apachelogger: on it now - 2 hours, maybe 3 [17:14] okies [17:14] *updating* [17:14] * Tm_T is struggling with cmake segfaults [17:23] jdong: thanks for the patch [17:23] apachelogger: absolutely, my pleasure. KDE4 is shaping to be really awesome :) [17:24] jdong: glad to hear, though I have to mention that 4.1 is crap compared to trunk ;-) [17:25] apachelogger: I can certainly imagine! [17:32] apachelogger: I've just about got my system back to normal after the fresh install. I am planning on trying out KDE 4.2 trunk in a vm. I assume a Kubuntu Intrepid image, apt-get remove kdelibs5 and add the neon repo and install the kde nightly?: Correct or do you have a better suggestion [17:32] rgreening: IMHO you should let the regular KDE stick around [17:33] using neon's KDM is a) very dangerous b) very hackish [17:33] so you would have to use XDM or GDM [17:34] apachelogger: ah... ok, so if I leave regular KDE around, How should I install nightly and how do I properly launch/run from that install? [17:34] install the package kde-nightly then you should have a session option in KDM [17:35] kde-nightly only brings in kdebase, for the other stuff you'll need to install kde-nightly-foobar [17:35] * apachelogger counts votes on ncommander's motu application [17:35] ty apachelogger [17:42] bug 292403 [17:42] Launchpad bug 292403 in firefox-3.0 "MASTER firefox 3.03 in kubuntu 8.10 requires gnome apps" [Medium,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292403 [17:43] * apachelogger thinks we should drop kubuntu-desktop and just make all of KDE recommend all of KDE [17:43] after all, you don't get the complete konqueror experience without being able to embedd dragonplayer's kpart [17:45] +1 [17:46] jdong: Interested in another key mapping problem? [17:47] JontheEchidna: suggestins for a course of action? [17:47] mmmm.... [17:47] * apachelogger thinks about making it affact every single package manager we have [17:48] apt, aptitude, update-manager, adept, synaptic [17:48] kpackage [17:48] though, does kpackage download stuff at all? [17:49] packagekit [17:49] smartpm [17:49] I think that should be all [17:52] * ScottK restrains himself from commenting in the Firefox bug. [17:53] ScottK: why so [17:53] ScottK: trying to unbreak my brightness keys :) [17:53] jdong: OK. When your ready for another one, let me know. [17:54] Tm_T: Because I'm trying to have a more positive attitude and pasting asac all over the bug for his dismissive attitude about Kubuntu wouldn't fit that. [17:54] ScottK: the bug mentioned above? [17:54] Yes. [17:54] roger [17:54] JontheEchidna: would update-manager actually install the recommends? [17:55] * apachelogger isn't too sure about that [17:55] perhaps if firefox got dragged in as a new package that needed to be installed [17:55] ScottK: interestingly it seems like installing kde4 also broke GNOME's brightness keys, has to do with keymapping [17:55] trying to investigate [17:55] they did change apt to automagically install recommends [17:55] it turns the brightness keys into audio stop/play keys. [17:55] that's a nice feature because my macbook doesn't have stop/play keys [17:56] though I would like my brighness keys back :D [17:56] lol [17:56] JontheEchidna: Yep. [17:56] jdong: check the xmodmap files in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ [17:56] * ScottK came up with a productive suggestion. [17:56] and /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kubuntu.xmodmap [17:57] I'm pretty sure this file isn't up to date with keysym changes, but don't have the hardware to test the keys [17:57] xev output should be helpful [17:57] smarter: that modmap wouldn't get used in GNOME [17:58] in fact, I doubt it would in KDE, because the path is non-kiosked :P [17:58] it is used in KDE [17:58] so the answer to bug 292403 is "stuff you KDE" :| [17:58] Launchpad bug 292403 in update-manager "MASTER firefox 3.03 in kubuntu 8.10 requires gnome apps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292403 [17:58] ScottK: that comment is too logical by the way ;-) [17:58] and I removed a line in it which made the ins key map to play or something like that [17:58] apachelogger: ;-) [18:00] hi Hobbsee [18:01] stdin: the answer is that apachelogger takes certain comments very literally and makes everyone aware that he is disappointed in the disobeying of standards :P [18:03] standards only apply when Ubuntu want's them to [18:04] ScottK/ apachelogger: I can't wait to see what happens when we have a qt firefox package. Is it going to be "you need all the gnome apps to be useful" stupidity again? [18:04] rgreening: very likely, TBH firefox is not the best example of cross-desktop applications [18:05] * rgreening thinks there should be a ff-gnome and ff-kde and ff-gnome holds the gnome deps as reccommends [18:05] We'll just make the KDE stuff recommends too using the same logic and see how it goes. [18:05] rgreening: "but people install firefox and would be confused" [18:05] I might switch to Konq once the webkit backend gets better [18:05] apachelogger: grumble well there's your problem :) [18:05] state 0x0, keycode 233 (keysym 0x1008ff02, XF86MonBrightnessUp), same_screen YES, [18:05] state 0x0, keycode 232 (keysym 0x1008ff03, XF86MonBrightnessDown), same_screen YES, [18:06] keycode 232 = XF86Stop [18:06] keycode 233 = XF86Forward [18:06] lets make all KDE apps depend on kubuntu-desktop, as it's "essential to get a complete experience" [18:06] JontheEchidna: stop waiting and just use Konqueror, punk [18:06] <3 Tm_T [18:06] Firefox and hrome are Windows applications [18:06] * JontheEchidna is running Minefield, very fast [18:07] JontheEchidna: usually people run very fast in minefield [18:07] apachelogger: IMO those keybindings are wrong :) [18:08] jdong: I don't really know anything about that stuff ;-) [18:08] afk [18:09] Riddell: What happened to http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3244 ? [18:09] Tm_T: For a short period of time [18:10] DaSkreech: perhaps [18:10] Tm_T: I forget did I ask you about Kwibber? [18:10] you did, it's waiting for freetime [18:10] jdong: looks like X11 is using another translation table than the one you checked [18:10] ok who else is in on the idea? [18:11] well I'm only developer I know [18:11] bit busy until baby is born, after that who knows [18:11] Publicized it any? [18:11] * DaSkreech chuckles. [18:11] * rgreening probably shouldn't have posted a comment in the bug... waits for the backlash [18:11] I have mentioned it in places, but it's more like I like to do it myself atleast FOR myself (:) [18:11] I'm going to wager the busy goes up drastically for another 18-32 years after that [18:11] nah [18:12] allee: sorry, what do you mean? [18:13] jdong: xev and therefore X11 translate keycode 232 to XF86MonBrightnessDown ... [18:13] Tm_T: Blogged? [18:13] Or microblogged it? ^_^ [18:13] DaSkreech: I don't do blog atm [18:13] and neither micro- [18:13] >_> [18:13] jdong: so your keycode 232 = XF86Stop is not used by X11 [18:13] will though [18:13] allee: well I am pressing the brightness down key [18:13] So you are making a microblogger for yourself with no usage of Microblogging? [18:13] allee: and due to the keymap it's being treated as the XF86Stop key :) [18:14] allee: now maybe on some keyboards keycode 232 IS the stop key, but that's not the case on this Macbook keyboard where it's a brightness key [18:14] I just filed bug 293213 [18:14] Launchpad bug 293213 in kubuntu-default-settings "k-d-s applies incorrect xmodmap that breaks macbook brightness keys" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293213 [18:14] DaSkreech: no, I'm just been busy with other stuff so haven't microblogged for a month or so [18:14] ok Where do you have accounts? [18:15] jaiku, identica, will try twitter at some point [18:15] \o/ [18:15] same sequence for me [18:15] How come you aren't part of #kubuntu or #kde on Jaiku ? [18:16] because I'm not active yet, just starting my way there [18:17] What's your nick on Jaiku? [18:17] allee: what key(s) does guidance expect for brightness keys [18:17] tmt I think [18:18] ScottK, apachelogger: wrt bug 292403, it seems ubufox is the main culprit. What about a kubufox package and then the reccommends can be and either or for ubufox/kubufox and then we can sort this all out in Jaunty with a seed for kubufox. [18:18] Launchpad bug 292403 in update-manager "MASTER firefox 3.03 in kubuntu 8.10 requires gnome apps" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/292403 [18:19] rgreening: it would use the either or in order of the list [18:19] rgreening: I think that's generally sensible. I intend to discuss my suggestion with asac directly (i.e. not in the bug). I'll let you know how it turns out. [18:19] so ubufox|kubufox would still intall ubufox [18:19]