[00:18] <ScottK> That'd be a bug then because fish is pretty ancient.
[00:18] <ScottK> It ought to work with sftp.
[00:28] <ryanakca> When does merging start?
[00:28] <ScottK> ryanakca: Once Jaunty opens.  Not sure exactly when that'll be.
[00:29] <ScottK> ryanakca: In the mean time, send bugs with patches to Debian so maybe it's more syncing and less merging.
[00:29] <ryanakca> ScottK: *nods*, will do
[00:29] <ryanakca> thanks
[00:38] <seele> ScottK: Nov 6 i think?
[00:38]  * DaSkreech agrees
[00:39] <ScottK> seele: For what?  Sorry.
[00:40]  * DaSkreech agrees with that statement as well
[00:40] <rgreening> hah
[00:40] <seele> Jaunty opens, heh.  I guess context helps
[00:41] <ScottK> OK.
[00:43] <jdong> wow, awesomeness -- Xon/Xoff flowcontrol in Konsole results in a cute little FYI bar to tell you what's going on
[00:43] <jdong> yet another *nice* touch
[00:49] <ScottK> seele: I thought you might find http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001182.html interesting.
[00:52] <seele> ScottK: ooo, that book looks interesting
[00:52]  * seele wonders if they cover 7+-2
[00:53] <seele> oh ho ho, that just reminded me to buy i book i have a 40% coupon for which expires today
[00:54] <seele> the book is normally 149 but the coupon takes $60 off
[01:15] <DaSkreech> That's a pretty good deal
[01:15] <DaSkreech> Oh expires today
[01:16] <DaSkreech> I was going to say wait till the book dropped to 50 dollars then get them to pay you 10 dollars to take it
[01:20] <stdin> is bug #292403 really adepts fault? rather than apt?
[01:20] <seele> it's not going to drop in price any time soon, it was just published last year
[01:23] <DaSkreech> ah right
[01:23] <DaSkreech> Wait
[01:23] <DaSkreech> expires today?
[01:23] <DaSkreech>  how are you going to make use of it?
[01:24] <ScottK> DaSkreech: They have this thing called the Internet and it has stores.
[01:24] <ScottK> ;-)
[02:10] <seele> lol
[02:14] <DaSkreech> Which store sells this internet?
[03:02]  * ScottK ponders a competition for the most sarcastic answer to the latest post to kubuntu-devel ML.
[03:02] <DaSkreech> Prize?
[03:03] <ScottK> Haven't gotten that far.
[03:03] <ScottK> Too distracted by kdiamond.
[03:03] <DaSkreech> MMM
[03:03] <DaSkreech>  trunk?
[03:08] <ScottK> No, Intrepid.
[03:08] <ScottK> 4.1.2
[03:08] <ScottK> Playing, not packaging.
[03:08] <DaSkreech> Well You can have trunk and play it :) it's nice on trunk
[03:09] <ScottK> DaSkreech: This is the laptop I use for $WORK.  No trunk on it.
[03:09] <DaSkreech> Hmm I might get a laptop
[03:09]  * DaSkreech dislikes laptops
[03:21] <ScottK> yuriy's entry seems not at all sarcastic.
[03:24] <jdong> hmm kdemultimedia/kmix defines the increaseVolume calls and the dbus interface
[03:24] <Hobbsee> canada. You would have thougth he was more clueful.
[03:24] <jdong> what is the package that contains what actually maps the buttons to those dbus calls?
[03:25] <jdong> IIRC it was kmilo that did it in KDE3
[03:27] <jdong> ah, found it.
[03:27] <ScottK> What is it?
[03:27] <jdong> kscd in kdemultimedia
[03:27] <ScottK> We had a kmilo-kde4 for a while in Hardy, but it's gone now ...
[03:27] <jdong> registers it as a global keybinding
[03:28] <ScottK> Ah.
[03:28] <jdong> now to trace the codepath
[03:28] <jdong> wait that's not right
[03:29] <jdong> +   connect(globalAction, SIGNAL(triggered(bool) ), SLOT(slotIncreaseVolume()));
[03:29] <jdong> that's what I want
[03:29] <jdong> introduced by magical debian/patches/kubuntu_02_kmix_keyboard_shortcuts.diff
[03:29] <jdong> oh PFFT FFS!
[03:29] <jdong> +void KMixWindow::slotIncreaseVolume()
[03:29] <jdong> [snip]
[03:29] <jdong> +  mixer->setMute("Master:0", false); //FIXME, don't hardcode deviceids
[03:30] <jdong> +  mixer->increaseVolume("PCM:0");
[03:30] <jdong> I wonder why it defaulst to PCM...
[03:31]  * ScottK figures it's a good bet you're in the right area when the line before says FIXME
[03:32] <jdong> :)
[03:32] <ScottK> Next question is, is it changed in KDE 4.1.3?
[03:33] <jdong> well considering this is a kubuntu patch, I'm not sure
[03:33] <ScottK> Probably not.
[03:33] <jdong> while I hack at this code to get the right behavior, would you mind checking if the 4.1.3 packaging is any different?
[03:33] <jdong> you'd know better than me where to look
[03:34] <ScottK> jdong: vorian is going to check.
[03:34]  * vorian waves
[03:34] <jdong> :D
[03:35] <vorian> jdong: can you get me a paste of your trace?
[03:35] <JontheEchidna> I don't believe we did any fixing for patches in 4.1.3
[03:35] <vorian> rrrr
[03:36] <JontheEchidna> in kdemultimedia
[03:36] <vorian> i was going to check the source
[03:36] <JontheEchidna> well I haven't checked either but I don't *think* we did
[03:36] <vorian> righto
[03:36] <jdong>   mixer->setMute("Master:0", false); //FIXME, don't hardcode deviceids
[03:36] <jdong>   mixer->increaseVolume("PCM:0");
[03:36] <JontheEchidna> it would be fun if patches maintained themselves :P
[03:37] <jdong> vorian: stuff that looks like that. just grep for PCM:0 in debian/patches :)
[03:37] <vorian> oh nice
[03:37] <vorian> yeah, only keyboard patches
[03:39] <vorian> not much changed either in 4.1.3
[03:40] <ScottK> This is a regression from KDE3/Hardy that a lot of people have complained about, so if we could include a fix in our 4.1.3 upload, that'd be really kewl.
[03:43] <vorian> ohmy
[03:43] <vorian> /// @DCOP    WHAT DOES THIS METHOD?!?!?
[03:48] <jdong> ok, gonna do a quick testbuild and see if this changes anything meaningful :D
[03:49] <jdong> am I crazy, or are ctrl-pgup/pgdn inverted when switching konsole tabs?
[03:49] <jdong> i.e. pgup moves right and pgdn moves left, counterintuitive to what I expected
[03:51] <jdong> nice, y'all use cmake with percentage indication
[03:51] <jdong> (doesn't it give you a warm and fuzzy feeling that some clueless GNOME fanboy is patching your code? :D)
[03:52] <DaSkreech> jdong: near as I recall that's an old bug. You can swap them yourself I think
[03:52] <jdong> DaSkreech: by... redefining 3 hotkeys explicitly, yeah
[03:53] <jdong> DaSkreech: I'm trying to get it to read the master channel preference in kmix
[03:53] <jdong> which is what it should do intuitively
[03:53] <jdong> to my humble eye it doesn't seem like an "old bug" as much as  the old bug was ported over to KDE4 in a new and blunter way :)
[03:53] <DaSkreech> :-0
[03:53] <DaSkreech> ;-)
[03:53] <jdong> :)
[03:57] <jdong> DaSkreech: oh wait you mean the konsole thing
[03:57] <jdong> sorry I was talking about the kmix thing :)
[03:57] <DaSkreech>  :-)
[03:57] <jdong> well... at any rate, it would be nice to have it fixed correctly :D
[03:57] <DaSkreech> Hey is there a GUI wine thing?
[03:57] <DaSkreech>  I seem to remember there being one
[03:57]  * DaSkreech wants working sound
[03:58] <DaSkreech> System settings used to have a Wine entry
[03:59] <jdong> grumble one day I should just properly set up a COW thingie.
[03:59] <jdong> this whole tmpfs+/var/cache unionfs thing is just silly
[04:00] <yuriy> DaSkreech: nope, didn't port that
[04:00] <DaSkreech> Damn
[04:00] <DaSkreech> NEed to remember the command line setup then
[04:01] <jdong> winecfg not good enough?
[04:01] <DaSkreech> That was it winecfg!!
[04:01] <JontheEchidna> guidance-wineconfig was basically winecfg with the theme-color getter iirc
[04:01] <JontheEchidna> which was a very handy feature :)
[04:01]  * yuriy should just turn that into a script
[04:02] <DaSkreech> What's Wine-auto ?
[04:03] <jdong> wow, no FTBFS yet.
[04:03] <DaSkreech> In kernel?
[04:03]  * JontheEchidna -> bed
[04:03] <jdong> kmix :)
[04:03] <DaSkreech> ok :-)
[04:03] <jdong> yup it made it past kmix
[04:03] <jdong> now the question is, is this fix gonna work? :)
[04:07] <jdong> well it's 95% correct.
[04:07] <jdong> or 50% correct normalized more rudely
[04:07] <jdong> you can only crank it up
[04:07] <jdong> oh duh

[04:07] <jdong>  void KMixWindow::slotDecreaseVolume()
[04:07] <jdong> +  mixer->increaseVolume(master->id());
[04:08] <DaSkreech> Funny part with my kmix is that I need to turn down the volume on Videos to hear anything
[04:16] <jdong> ScottK: almost got final verification of fix, just involves an updated kubuntu_02_bleh.patch
[04:16] <jdong> what's your preferred way of submitting the patch?
[04:19] <jdong> confirmed, fixed.
[04:19] <jdong> hotkeys now follow whatever the master channel is set as in kmix :)
[04:21] <ScottK> jdong: apachelogger has been coordinating the 4.1.3 preps.  I'd ask him, but in the meantime, I'm sure there's a bug you could attach the patch to.
[04:21] <jdong> yeah I'm gonna pick bug 267245
[04:21] <jdong> looks to be the most triaged of the dupes
[04:23] <ScottK> jdong: We'll have additional monthly 4.1.x updates we're feeding into Intrepid, so if there's more stuff like this, we've got good targets for getting the fixes deployed.
[04:25] <jdong> ScottK: awesome. Patch attached to bug 267245; I see that Riddell assigned himself to the bug so hopefully whoever can get the fix in will get the message :)
[04:35] <DaSkreech> Is ark broken?
[04:37] <ScottK> DaSkreech: 'Lacking some features of ark for KDE3'
[04:37] <ScottK> DaSkreech: What specifically?
[04:37] <DaSkreech> :-) Like making an archive?
[04:38] <ScottK> .tar.gz support got stuffed in at the vary last minute, so if that's what you're trying, I'd try a different format.  .bz2 is more mature.
[04:38] <DaSkreech> Wha'ts the workflow to make one?
[04:39] <ScottK> Dunno.  I haven't actually had to do it.
[04:39] <DaSkreech> Short story is that nothing seems to work
[04:40] <jdong> mmkay, so next up: brightness keys!1
[04:40]  * jdong is gonna fix ALL of KDE4 tonight ;-)
[04:41] <ScottK> Those mostly work and are controlled by Guidance Power Manager.
[04:41] <DaSkreech> jdong: You can't possibly :)
[04:41] <ScottK> So please don't be breaking them what do work already.
[04:41] <jdong> hmm my macbook keys aren't working at all
[04:41] <jdong> but they do work in GNOME
[04:41] <ScottK> OK.  Then go for it.
[04:42] <jdong> guidance has working brightness sliders in its UI
[04:42] <jdong> just need to figure out why the keymappings don't
[04:42] <ScottK> Excellent.
[04:43]  * DaSkreech is not aware of how this works
[04:43] <DaSkreech> If we add features but don't bump a version would it be accepted in Ibex?
[04:44] <ScottK> DaSkreech: It depends on what you mean.
[04:44] <ScottK> In general new features are out.
[04:44] <ScottK> If it's a regression from Hardy KDE3, then maybe.
[04:44] <DaSkreech> If Jdong fixes all of KDE4 tonight can we ship those changes now in Ibex ?
[04:45] <ScottK> Yeah.  He's bug fixing.  That's fine.  We're prep'ing 4.1.3 for intrepid-updates now.
[04:45] <DaSkreech> Ahh Ok :0
[04:45] <DaSkreech> Sweet
[04:45] <DaSkreech> Forward port the changed to trunk :)
[04:46] <ScottK> Yep.
[04:46] <ScottK> So far he fixed a Kubuntu specific patch, so nothing to forward.
[04:47]  * DaSkreech is almost anxious for KDE 4.2 to be out
[04:48] <ScottK> We'll put that in intrepid-backports once it's released.
[05:40] <ScottK> mornfall: Is there any support in Adept 3 for installing from pinned repositories (like backports.org for example)?
[05:41] <mornfall> Not that I know of.
[05:42] <ScottK> mornfall: We're looking at reworking how backports works in Ubuntu to make it easier to get one package out of Ubuntu backports and not all of the updates.
[05:43] <ScottK> Would there be any chance of getting something in the Jaunty timeframe?
[05:43] <mornfall> And the timeframe is?
[05:45] <ScottK> The next Ubuntu release, so released 6 months from now.
[05:45] <ScottK> Ideally we'd get feature work done in the next 3 months or so.
[05:46] <ScottK> mornfall: Feature Freeze is February 19th
[05:47] <mornfall> Well, if I get a concise list of what's needed, I can try to come up with something over the winter holidays or so.
[05:47] <ScottK> mornfall: OK.  We're still working it out.  Thanks.
[05:48] <mornfall> I'll have to set some priorities and drop everything that's not important enough.
[05:48] <ScottK> Understand.  Isn't that how it always works ...
[05:48] <mornfall> Sort of, yes.
[06:51] <Tonio_> hi there
[06:51] <DaSkreech> hai
[09:01] <Riddell> morning
[09:01] <Arby> morning Riddell
[09:07] <hunger> Riddell: I had trouble building kde this WE. So I have no update on the bluetooth issue yet.
[09:07]  * hunger will continue to try building trunk.
[10:09] <stdin> if I'm added a translatable string in a patch to a KDE 4 package, do I just wrap in i18n() or do I need to do something else to get the translations updated?
[10:14] <smarter> you're adding a translatable string to intrepid?
[10:20] <stdin> smarter: yes
[10:20] <stdin> bug #290589
[10:22] <smarter> stdin: KDE uses extract-messages.sh $srcdir/Messages.sh to create the pot file
[10:23] <smarter> but imho the best way to do that is to fill a bug upstream and send your patch
[10:23] <smarter> (btw, most users won't know what "hal" is and why it needs privileges :P)
[10:23] <stdin> it's not an upstream issue, it's an issue with one of our patches
[10:25] <smarter> oh
[10:25] <stdin> looks like extract-messages.sh gets run in kde4.mk anyway, so that would export the strings to launchpad
[10:26] <stdin> ... I think
[10:26] <stdin> or is that just .destkop files
[11:44] <jussi01> wow, webkit in konq is real nice, shame about the missing flash though.
[11:47] <Riddell> jussi01: using svn or our packages?
[12:02] <jussi01> Riddell: just the webkitkde package of ours
[12:03] <jussi01> it actually renders the pages correctly, which is really nice for a change...
[12:08] <jussi01> Riddell: if it had plugin availability, Ie flash, java etc, I would then find konqui actually useful for web browsing - (based on about an hour of use mind you)
[13:03] <seele> ScottK: are you still having trouble with kmail crashing on close?
[13:04] <seele> ack.. my calendar converted to UTC.
[13:08] <ScottK> seele: It's been quite some time since I rebooted/closed it, so no idea.  I'd be suprised if it didn't happen since it's happened with the current version.
[13:16] <apachelogger_> ScottK: did you try with 4.1.3?
[13:16] <ScottK> apachelogger_: No.  I'm waiting until 4.1.3 hits -proposed to install it so I can count as an official "It works" for SRU verification.
[13:17] <apachelogger_> okies
[13:19] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Did yo usee jdong's volume key patch?
[13:23] <apachelogger_> no, wasn't able to check quasse yet
[13:23] <apachelogger_> still @work
[13:25] <ScottK> apachelogger_: OK.  Just want to make sure we roll it into the 4.1.3 upload since it fixes a regression.
[13:27] <apachelogger_> can do
[13:34] <exobuzz> ive been visiting kubuntu.net wondering why there is no mention of the intrepid release.. and now i see there is kubuntu.org
[13:34] <exobuzz> so whats happened with kubuntu.net ?
[13:35] <Riddell> exobuzz: sysadmins failed to update it when new website came on, I have an outstanding rt ticket with them about it
[13:36] <exobuzz> oh
[13:37] <Riddell> I'll add poking sysadmins to my todo list :)
[13:38]  * apachelogger_ didn't even know there was kubuntu.net
[13:38] <exobuzz> thanks
[13:38] <exobuzz> i thought kubuntu.net was the main site
[13:38] <exobuzz> :)
[13:40] <seele> it does seem kindof silly there are two kubuntu sites like that
[13:41] <jussi01> kubuntu.net should just redirect to kubuntu.org...
[13:41] <exobuzz> maybe its a website marketing ploy
[13:41] <exobuzz> ;-)
[13:53] <ScottK> What's the standard answer for people who complain about Katapult is missing in KDE4?
[13:54] <JontheEchidna> "use krunner" ?
[13:54] <JontheEchidna> just tell them to press alt+f2 ;-)
[13:55] <apachelogger_> use katapult
[13:56] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Thanks.
[13:56] <ScottK> apachelogger_: ?
[14:08] <apachelogger_> !info katapult
[14:08] <apachelogger_> hm, apparently it got removed
[14:12] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Yes.  It's KDE3 only.  It looks like the alt-F2 thing is a reasonable replacement (not identical, so people will scream).
[14:14] <JontheEchidna> I've heard good things about krunner from katapult users in #kubuntu
[14:14] <seele> it does pretty much the same thing, it just looks a little different and i think the shortcuts are a littls different
[14:14] <JontheEchidna> but then again I've heard good things about KDE4 there too ;)
[14:15] <seele> you have to type =1+2 instead of just 1+2
[14:16] <ScottK> Would it make sense to have krunner 'replace' katapult in a packaging sense?  My upgraded system still had a non-working katapult installed after the upgrade.
[14:18] <JontheEchidna> I suppose a conflict/replace on it in kdebase-workspace-bin would do the trick
[14:18] <JontheEchidna> well technically it doesn't conflict
[14:19] <ScottK> Not sure.
[14:19] <apachelogger_> doesn't make sense
[14:19] <apachelogger_> krunner depends half of kdebase-workspace
[14:19] <ScottK> I do think finding a way to get non-working KDE3 stuff off of systems that upgrade is generically good.
[14:19] <apachelogger_> unlike katapult which only required kdelibs IIRC
[14:20] <apachelogger_> ScottK: update-manager would remove packages which were removed from the archives I think
[14:20] <ScottK> Well it doesn't exist in a KDE4 version and the KDE3 version doesn't work, so it ought to go somehow.
[14:20] <apachelogger_> why does the katapult KDE 3 version not work btw?
[14:21] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Nope.  This was part of the idea behind the currently much maligned 'cruft cleaner'
[14:21] <ScottK> For the one test I gave it, it looked on the wrong place for the binary and failed.
[14:21] <ScottK> So it runs, it just didnd't know how to launch stuff.
[14:22] <ScottK> That's fairly fatal given it's purpose.
[14:22] <apachelogger_> sounds weird though
[14:22] <ScottK> Dunno.  I've removed it now, so it'd be a pain to put it back.
[14:23]  * ScottK wonders why mez is blogging on planed KDE about his Gnome install.
[15:19] <rien-ne-va-plus> hi guys, is there any news regarding when bluetooth will be available for 8.10 ?
[15:28] <ScottK> rien-ne-va-plus: It's being actively worked.  I asked one of the people working on it late last week and they said at least a couple more weeks.
[15:30] <rien-ne-va-plus> ScottK: thanks for the info - ill try gnome-bluez then
[15:34] <ScottK> apachelogger: It turned out I had katapult running still.  It appears it still works for kde3 apps and fails on kde4 apps (looks at /usr/lib/kde4/bin/kate for example)
[15:37] <emonkey> ScottK, yes I can confirm that, I've got the same problem, but for now I'm just using the search in K-Menu or krunner, not that bad, works fine or me
[15:37] <emonkey> *for
[15:41] <ScottK> emonkey: katapult is kde3 only, so you'd best start geting used to those alternatives.  They're the way of the future....
[15:41] <emonkey> Yes I practice that for about a week
[16:20] <stdin> I have a conundrum... I can get my strings in solid translated, but it'll require linking solid against kdecore
[17:08] <apachelogger> ScottK: probably some stupid patch
[17:08] <apachelogger> there is no reason why it would look in usr/lib/kde4/bin
[17:12] <apachelogger> Nightrose: ETA for beta3?
[17:13] <Nightrose> apachelogger: on it now - 2 hours, maybe 3
[17:14] <apachelogger> okies
[17:14] <apachelogger> *updating*
[17:14]  * Tm_T is struggling with cmake segfaults
[17:23] <apachelogger> jdong: thanks for the patch
[17:23] <jdong> apachelogger: absolutely, my pleasure. KDE4 is shaping to be really awesome :)
[17:24] <apachelogger> jdong: glad to hear, though I have to mention that 4.1 is crap compared to trunk ;-)
[17:25] <jdong> apachelogger: I can certainly imagine!
[17:32] <rgreening> apachelogger: I've just about got my system back to normal after the fresh install. I am planning on trying out KDE 4.2 trunk in a vm. I assume a Kubuntu Intrepid image, apt-get remove kdelibs5 and add the neon repo and install the kde nightly?: Correct or do you have a better suggestion
[17:32] <apachelogger> rgreening: IMHO you should let the regular KDE stick around
[17:33] <apachelogger> using neon's KDM is a) very dangerous b) very hackish
[17:33] <apachelogger> so you would have to use XDM or GDM
[17:34] <rgreening> apachelogger: ah... ok, so if I leave regular KDE around, How should I install nightly and how do I properly launch/run from that install?
[17:34] <apachelogger> install the package kde-nightly then you should have a session option in KDM
[17:35] <apachelogger> kde-nightly only brings in kdebase, for the other stuff you'll need to install kde-nightly-foobar
[17:35]  * apachelogger counts votes on ncommander's motu application
[17:35] <rgreening> ty apachelogger
[17:42] <apachelogger> bug 292403
[17:43]  * apachelogger thinks we should drop kubuntu-desktop and just make all of KDE recommend all of KDE
[17:43] <apachelogger> after all, you don't get the complete konqueror experience without being able to embedd dragonplayer's kpart
[17:45] <JontheEchidna> +1
[17:46] <ScottK> jdong: Interested in another key mapping problem?
[17:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: suggestins for a course of action?
[17:47] <JontheEchidna> mmmm....
[17:47]  * apachelogger thinks about making it affact every single package manager we have
[17:48] <JontheEchidna> apt, aptitude, update-manager, adept, synaptic
[17:48] <apachelogger> kpackage
[17:48] <apachelogger> though, does kpackage download stuff at all?
[17:49] <apachelogger> packagekit
[17:49] <apachelogger> smartpm
[17:49] <apachelogger> I think that should be all
[17:52]  * ScottK restrains himself from commenting in the Firefox bug.
[17:53] <Tm_T> ScottK: why so
[17:53] <jdong> ScottK: trying to unbreak my brightness keys :)
[17:53] <ScottK> jdong: OK.  When your ready for another one, let me know.
[17:54] <ScottK> Tm_T: Because I'm trying to have a more positive attitude and pasting asac all over the bug for his dismissive attitude about Kubuntu wouldn't fit that.
[17:54] <Tm_T> ScottK: the bug mentioned above?
[17:54] <ScottK> Yes.
[17:54] <Tm_T> roger
[17:54] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: would update-manager actually install the recommends?
[17:55]  * apachelogger isn't too sure about that
[17:55] <JontheEchidna> perhaps if firefox got dragged in as a new package that needed to be installed
[17:55] <jdong> ScottK: interestingly it seems like installing kde4 also broke GNOME's brightness keys, has to do with keymapping
[17:55] <jdong> trying to investigate
[17:55] <JontheEchidna> they did change apt to automagically install recommends
[17:55] <jdong> it turns the brightness keys into audio stop/play keys.
[17:55] <jdong> that's a nice feature because my macbook doesn't have stop/play keys
[17:56] <jdong> though I would like my brighness keys back :D
[17:56] <apachelogger> lol
[17:56] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Yep.
[17:56] <apachelogger> jdong: check the xmodmap files in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/
[17:56]  * ScottK came up with a productive suggestion.
[17:56] <smarter> and /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/kubuntu.xmodmap
[17:57] <smarter> I'm pretty sure this file isn't up to date with keysym changes, but don't have the hardware to test the keys
[17:57] <smarter> xev output should be helpful
[17:57] <apachelogger> smarter: that modmap wouldn't get used in GNOME
[17:58] <apachelogger> in fact, I doubt it would in KDE, because the path is non-kiosked :P
[17:58] <smarter> it is used in KDE
[17:58] <stdin> so the answer to bug 292403 is "stuff you KDE" :|
[17:58] <apachelogger> ScottK: that comment is too logical by the way ;-)
[17:58] <smarter> and I removed a line in it which made the ins key map to play or something like that
[17:58] <ScottK> apachelogger: ;-)
[18:00] <DaSkreech> hi Hobbsee
[18:01] <apachelogger> stdin: the answer is that apachelogger takes certain comments very literally and makes everyone aware that he is disappointed in the disobeying of standards :P
[18:03] <stdin> standards only apply when Ubuntu want's them to
[18:04] <rgreening> ScottK/ apachelogger: I can't wait to see what happens when we have a qt firefox package. Is it going to be "you need all the gnome apps to be useful" stupidity again?
[18:04] <apachelogger> rgreening: very likely, TBH firefox is not the best example of cross-desktop applications
[18:05]  * rgreening thinks there should be a ff-gnome and ff-kde and ff-gnome holds the gnome deps as reccommends
[18:05] <ScottK> We'll just make the KDE stuff recommends too using the same logic and see how it goes.
[18:05] <apachelogger> rgreening: "but people install firefox and would be confused"
[18:05] <JontheEchidna> I might switch to Konq once the webkit backend gets better
[18:05] <jdong> apachelogger: grumble well there's your problem :)
[18:05] <jdong>     state 0x0, keycode 233 (keysym 0x1008ff02, XF86MonBrightnessUp), same_screen YES,
[18:05] <jdong>     state 0x0, keycode 232 (keysym 0x1008ff03, XF86MonBrightnessDown), same_screen YES,
[18:06] <jdong> keycode 232 = XF86Stop
[18:06] <jdong> keycode 233 = XF86Forward
[18:06] <stdin> lets make all KDE apps depend on kubuntu-desktop, as it's "essential to get a complete <package> experience"
[18:06] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: stop waiting and just use Konqueror, punk
[18:06] <apachelogger> <3 Tm_T
[18:06] <DaSkreech> Firefox and hrome are Windows applications
[18:06]  * JontheEchidna is running Minefield, very fast
[18:07] <Tm_T> JontheEchidna: usually people run very fast in minefield
[18:07] <jdong> apachelogger: IMO those keybindings are wrong :)
[18:08] <apachelogger> jdong: I don't really know anything about that stuff ;-)
[18:08] <apachelogger> afk
[18:09] <DaSkreech> Riddell: What happened to http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3244 ?
[18:09] <DaSkreech> Tm_T: For a short period of time
[18:10] <Tm_T> DaSkreech: perhaps
[18:10] <DaSkreech> Tm_T: I forget did I ask you about Kwibber?
[18:10] <Tm_T> you did, it's waiting for freetime
[18:10] <allee> jdong: looks like X11 is using another translation table than the one you checked
[18:10] <DaSkreech> ok who else is in on the idea?
[18:11] <Tm_T> well I'm only developer I know
[18:11] <Tm_T> bit busy until baby is born, after that who knows
[18:11] <DaSkreech> Publicized it any?
[18:11]  * DaSkreech chuckles.
[18:11]  * rgreening probably shouldn't have posted a comment in the bug... waits for the backlash
[18:11] <Tm_T> I have mentioned it in places, but it's more like I like to do it myself atleast FOR myself (:)
[18:11] <DaSkreech> I'm going to wager the busy goes up drastically for another 18-32 years after that
[18:11] <Tm_T> nah
[18:12] <jdong> allee: sorry, what do you mean?
[18:13] <allee> jdong: xev and therefore X11 translate keycode 232 to  XF86MonBrightnessDown ...
[18:13] <DaSkreech> Tm_T: Blogged?
[18:13] <DaSkreech> Or microblogged it? ^_^
[18:13] <Tm_T> DaSkreech: I don't do blog atm
[18:13] <Tm_T> and neither micro-
[18:13] <DaSkreech> >_>
[18:13] <allee> jdong: so your  keycode 232 = XF86Stop  is not used by X11
[18:13] <Tm_T> will though
[18:13] <jdong> allee: well I am pressing the brightness down key
[18:13] <DaSkreech> So you are making a microblogger for yourself with no usage of Microblogging?
[18:13] <jdong> allee: and due to the keymap it's being treated as the XF86Stop key :)
[18:14] <jdong> allee: now maybe on some keyboards keycode 232 IS the stop key, but that's not the case on this Macbook keyboard where it's a brightness key
[18:14] <jdong> I just filed bug 293213
[18:14] <Tm_T> DaSkreech: no, I'm just been busy with other stuff so haven't microblogged for a month or so
[18:14] <DaSkreech> ok Where do you have accounts?
[18:15] <Tm_T> jaiku, identica, will try twitter at some point
[18:15] <DaSkreech> \o/
[18:15] <DaSkreech> same sequence for me
[18:15] <DaSkreech> How come you aren't part of #kubuntu or #kde on Jaiku ?
[18:16] <Tm_T> because I'm not active yet, just starting my way there
[18:17] <DaSkreech> What's your nick on Jaiku?
[18:17] <jdong> allee: what key(s) does guidance expect for brightness keys
[18:17] <Tm_T> tmt I think
[18:18] <rgreening> ScottK, apachelogger: wrt bug 292403, it seems ubufox is the main culprit. What about a kubufox package and then the reccommends can be and either or for ubufox/kubufox and then we can sort this all out in Jaunty with a seed for kubufox.
[18:19] <apachelogger> rgreening: it would use the either or in order of the list
[18:19] <ScottK> rgreening: I think that's generally sensible.  I intend to discuss my suggestion with asac directly (i.e. not in the bug).  I'll let you know how it turns out.
[18:19] <apachelogger> so ubufox|kubufox would still intall ubufox
[18:19] <apachelogger> unless kubufox is installed beforehand
[18:20] <rgreening> apachelogger... seed kubufox as partof the desktop?
[18:20] <ScottK> apachelogger: We'd need to drop it to suggests.
[18:20] <ScottK> But if it's part of the desktop see/metapackage, it should work out fine.
[18:20] <apachelogger> ScottK: that is what I was pointing out earlier ;-)
[18:20] <apachelogger> anywho
[18:20] <rgreening> sure... either way, we prob need this and we need ff dev to agree
[18:20] <apachelogger> ScottK: you might want to have knome join the discussion
[18:20] <allee> jdong: I agree with your bug report.
[18:20] <DaSkreech> \o/
[18:20] <DaSkreech> Knome
[18:20] <DaSkreech> Love it
[18:20] <ScottK> apachelogger: Who or what is knome?
[18:21] <apachelogger> ScottK: he was thinking about gettting kubufox and xubufox
[18:21] <rgreening> ScottK: I'd be willing to help out in any solution.
[18:21] <rgreening> ScottK: and discussions...
[18:21] <apachelogger> ScottK: xubuntu's lead marketing dude
[18:21] <allee> jdong: I don't know that guidance used, but if there's a standardized XF86MonBrightness*, this is what guidance should use
[18:21] <ScottK> Oh.
[18:21] <jdong> allee: now the weird thing is, with those modmaps removed Guidance still doesn't see my brightness keys
[18:21] <jdong> allee: it doesn't seem like Guidance uses XF86MonBrightness*
[18:22] <apachelogger> ScottK: he was thinking about getting a shared startpage source to avoid duplicated translations
[18:22] <jdong> allee: it uses Launch5 and Launch6
[18:22] <jdong> WHAT?
[18:22] <ScottK> apachelogger: I see.
[18:23] <jdong> allee: hmm it doesn't accept my brightness keys in shortcut settings either
[18:23] <jdong> it pretends it doesn't hear me
[18:23] <jdong> even though Xev sees the keys
[18:24] <allee> jdong: strange
[18:24] <DaSkreech> I feel like I should know myrtti
[18:24] <rgreening> ScottK: apachelogger: actually, further looking, it requires apturl... which brings in all the deps. I wonder if are are alternatives to apturl for KDE that we can ask to put into that package to make this better.
[18:27] <rgreening> ScottK: apachelogger: my gut tells me, we can make ubufox allow apturl or install-package to satisfy the dep in ubufox. That would fix the issue altogether (assuming install-package will work and we patch apturl to allow either.
[18:27] <apachelogger> rgreening: it would improve the issue, not fix it
[18:28] <apachelogger> firefox shouldn't recommend ubufox at all
[18:28] <apachelogger> I am not sure install-package expects the same kind of URLs though
[18:32] <rgreening> me neither. just an option/hope for a possibility
[18:32] <rgreening> :)
[19:05] <jdong> allee:         brightnessUpAction.setShortcut(KShortcut(Qt.Key_Launch6))
[19:05] <jdong> allee: in g-p-m.py, why do we hardcode Launch5 and Launch6 as brightness?
[19:06] <allee> jdong: wild guess: historic?
[19:07] <allee> jdong: mhhm, wasn't there something in /etc/acpi ... that mapped hardware events to X events. ?????????
[19:07] <jdong> allee: only if they are hardware events
[19:08] <jdong> allee: the macbook does not have any hardware mapped keys for brightness
[19:08] <jdong> they are standard software keyboard keys that must be handled by the UI :)
[19:08] <allee> yes :)
[19:08] <jdong> allee: lol I see the "history"
[19:08] <jdong> allee: Qt.* doesn't have Key_*Brightness*
[19:11] <jdong> allee: so that's why we need launch5 and launch6
[19:14] <jdong> allee: wow, QT doesn't seem to recognize these keys period
[19:14] <jdong> allee: keyboard shortcuts can't grab the key
[19:14] <jdong> allee: and forcing the keysym results in displayed as "Meta-(blocky thing)"
[19:15]  * jdong tries a bit harder
[19:16] <jdong> confirmed, Qt can't see the brightness keys.
[19:23] <jdong> what the hell
[19:24] <jdong> XF86Launch5 is actually QT:Key_Launch7
[19:24] <jdong> XF86Launch6 is actually QT:Key_Launch8
[19:33] <DaSkreech> Do we have a complaint area for the 8.10 transistion?
[19:33] <DaSkreech> It's bugs but bugs enmasse
[19:38] <apachelogger> DaSkreech: there is a bug to collect migration issues
[19:39] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna will know which one that is ;-)
[19:39]  * DaSkreech sits in front of JontheEchidna
[19:39]  * JontheEchidna integrates brain to launchpad
[19:40] <JontheEchidna> bug 220940
[19:42] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: I can't get amarok to detect my ipod without compiling with libgpod-dev
[19:43] <JontheEchidna> libgpod-nogtk-dev makes it all not work, it seems
[19:47] <jussi01> Alberto Milone or whoever made the update to nvidia settings, you rock my world!!
[19:47] <jussi01> :D
[19:48] <jdong> is there a known issue with DPMS not activating?
[19:55] <ScottK> Who's going to UDS?
[20:00] <jussi01> Not I says the crazy Aussie...
[20:00] <JohnFlux2> ScottK: when is it?
[20:01] <ScottK> Early december
[20:07] <rgreening> me
[20:08] <ScottK> rgreening: asac wants to discuss Firefox, etc, at UDS.
[20:08] <ScottK> You want to be our expert?
[20:09] <rgreening> sure. nominate me :)
[20:14] <Arby>  Does anybody know much about pyqt? Specifically about QFileDialog and how to get it to close after choosing a file?
[20:14] <ScottK> rgreening: You're nominated.
[20:15] <rgreening> ScottK: just let me know what everyone wants discussed, captured, promoted, discussed. and I'll do it :)
[20:16] <ScottK> You're in charge now.  Go figure it out.
[20:18] <smarter> that's two times "discussed" :p
[20:19] <smarter> Arby: how do you call QFileDialog?
[20:20] <Arby> smarter: it's in that diff http://paste.ubuntu.com/66920/
[20:20] <Arby> see line 26 on
[20:21] <smarter> well, when the users clicks open, it's closed
[20:21] <Arby> that's my understanding
[20:21] <Arby> except it doesn't
[20:21] <smarter> Oo
[20:21] <smarter> what happens exactly when open is clicked, nothing?
[20:21] <Arby> the filename is inserted into the associated Qlineedit correctly
[20:22] <Arby> but the dialog disappears then comes back
[20:22] <Arby> in a split second
[20:22] <Arby> if I click on the file 3 time the dialog closes
[20:22] <Arby> clearly I've stuffed up somewhere
[20:22] <Arby> but I've no idea where
[20:23] <Arby> hang on, let me make a screenshot
[20:23] <smarter> btw, you could use setFileMode(QFileDialog::ExistingFile) instead of checking for if path.isfile
[20:24] <smarter> (on the QFileDialog)
[20:26] <smarter> maybe the on_filechooser_... functions is called more than one time?
[20:27] <Arby> smarter: http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3/scpkde2aa6.jpg
[20:27] <Arby> thanks for the setfilemode tip
[20:28] <Arby> I don't think the function should be called more than once but I'll check
[20:28] <Arby> that function didn't exist until I added it
[20:29] <smarter> but it's a slot, so maybe the signal is emitted more than one time
[20:29] <smarter> (wouldn't "Browse..." be a better pushbutton name than "..." for choosing a file?)
[20:29] <jjesse> yes
[20:29] <Arby> I didn't name it
[20:29] <Arby> but I will get around to changing it
[20:30] <jjesse> my wife always looks for browse to save files instead of ...
[20:30] <Arby> If I new how I'd get it to show a folder icon
[20:30] <Arby> *knew
[20:33] <Arby> well the button now says browse anyway :)
[20:33] <smarter> Arby: you want to show an icon on the button?
[20:34] <Arby> why not. I commonly associate an open folder icon with a button to open files
[20:34] <smarter> you need to use KPushButton for that
[20:34] <smarter> it can takes a KIcon and a QString
[20:34] <smarter> qpushbutton don't afaik
[20:34] <Arby> thanks for the hint
[20:34] <smarter> s/don't/can't/
[20:35] <Arby> this app seems to use a combination of pykde and pyqt so maybe I'll do that
[20:36] <smarter> well, when you use KDE functions you must use Qt ones too ;)
[20:38] <Arby> yeah. I know. I'm very much a novice
[20:38] <Arby> this is the first non-toy app I've worked with :)
[20:39] <Riddell> Arby: looking at s-c-p-k?
[20:40] <Arby> Riddell: yes
[20:40] <Arby> getting a bit lost
[20:41] <Arby> specifically bug 204763
[20:41] <Arby> which relates to this dialog http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3/scpkde2aa6.jpg
[20:42] <Arby> there were really two problems.
[20:42] <Arby> this one http://paste.ubuntu.com/66357/
[20:42] <Arby> which I got past.
[20:42] <Arby> and the fact that the browse file button wasn't connected to anything
[20:43] <Arby> so I started trying to connect it up and got stuck
[20:43] <Riddell> which browse button?  the "..." one?
[20:43] <Arby> yes
[20:43] <Riddell> what widget is it?
[20:44] <Arby> the button is a QPushButton I think, let me check the ui file
[20:44] <Arby> yes it is
[20:45] <Arby> I've also relabelled the '...' button as 'Browse' if that's ok
[20:46] <Arby> in fact all my changes are here http://paste.ubuntu.com/66920/
[20:48] <Riddell> looks fine, that doesn't work?
[20:49] <Arby> no, the filename is entered in the lineedit but the file dialog doesn't close
[20:49] <Arby> unless I click the file 3 times
[20:49] <Arby> and I have no idea why
[20:49] <Arby> there's no console output
[20:50] <Riddell> even if you click the ok button>
[20:50] <Riddell> ]?
[20:50] <ScottK> Is http://paste.ubuntu.com/66943 worth reporting in a bug (Konsole crash)?
[20:50] <Arby> if I click the file then the filename is entered in the lineedit. the dialog blinks and immediately reappears
[20:51] <Arby> even clicking cancel I have to click 3 times to get it to cancel
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: looks juicy
[20:53] <Riddell> Arby: oh, I know
[20:54] <Riddell> Arby: it's pyqt trying to be clever
[20:54] <Riddell> Arby: it's because your method name is the same as the slot name, so it calls it magically
[20:54] <Arby> Riddell: a-ha.
[20:54] <Riddell> Arby: either rename the slot or try removing the connect line
[20:54] <Arby> ok
[20:54] <Riddell> that confused the heck out of me when I came across it
[20:54] <Arby> I thought it was me being dumb
[20:55]  * Arby goes to try
[21:00] <Arby> Riddell: renaming the slot did it.
[21:00] <Arby> I'd never have figured that out
[21:00] <Riddell> yeah, it's a misfeature in my opinion
[21:01] <Arby> but isn't enabling the forward button.
[21:01] <Arby> I need to find the right attribute of the line edit
[21:01] <Riddell> for what?
[21:01] <Riddell> qt:qlineedit
[21:02] <smarter> actually, shouldn't all the connect statements in http://paste.ubuntu.com/66920/ be removed?
[21:02] <Riddell> smarter: I prefer to have them explicit than implicit
[21:02] <smarter> then every slot renamed
[21:03] <smarter> because the same thing must happens everywhere
[21:03] <Riddell> SIGNAL("toggled(bool)"), self.on_rbtnNPFoomatic_toggled)    I don't think that works magically because it takes an argument
[21:03] <smarter> oh yes, you need to add a python decorator for that to work
[21:03] <Arby> Riddell: yes, for checking if QLineEdit has text in it
[21:03] <smarter> but the name is still confusing
[21:04] <smarter> and it probably set ups an unneeded connect from it
[21:04] <smarter> *sets up
[21:04] <smarter> *setups :)
[21:04] <Arby> I tried QLineEdit.text() but that isn't working
[21:05] <Riddell> Arby: foo.text().length() > 0 ?
[21:05] <Arby> let me try
[21:07] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Bug 293281 is all your now.
[21:07] <ScottK> your/yours
[21:09] <smarter> Riddell: Arby:  if (not foo.text().isEmpty())
[21:10] <Riddell> smarter wins
[21:10] <Arby> smarter: thanks
[21:10] <smarter> :)
[21:10] <smarter> yw
[21:11] <smarter> actually it's strange, text() is a qt3 support function of QTextEdit
[21:12] <Arby> smarter: I'm trying to work from http://doc.trolltech.com/4.0/qlineedit.html
[21:13] <nixternal> if (!foo.text().isEmpy()) { ....; }   <- do it in C++, it is much better :P
[21:13] <Riddell> smarter: no it's not, it's a property
[21:13] <Riddell> http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qlineedit.html#text-prop
[21:13] <nixternal> better than this damn java I am writing here
[21:13] <Arby> nixternal: not if you don't speak c++ it isn't :)
[21:14] <Arby> especially when the app is in python
[21:14] <nixternal> workin' on the printer applet?
[21:15] <nixternal> heh, I remember working on it like 9 months ago in class one evening, and tested the "clean printer heads"...whoa it sent the laser jet printer at the front of the classroom in a frenzy...good stuff
[21:15] <Arby> brb
[21:18]  * ScottK notes this http://amarok.kde.org/blog/archives/826-There-is-a-BBC-in-my-Amarok.html for the "Ubuntu catch up" spec
[21:19] <Riddell> kick arse
[21:20] <Riddell> totem's bbc plugin didn't work for me
[21:20] <Riddell> I wonder how many of those feeds are video and how many audio
[21:21] <ScottK> Dunno.  I get my BBC news in an email once a day.  That's good enough for me.
[21:22] <Riddell> not prefer home grown Fox news? :)
[21:23] <ScottK> All news services have an angle, so I prefer to read a variety.
[21:23] <ScottK> Although Fox is not generally on my list of credible sources to consider.
[21:23] <Riddell> made a decision for tomorrow?
[21:24] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:24] <Arby> smarter: Riddell: this is the code to enable the forward button and it isn't working
[21:24] <Arby> http://paste.ubuntu.com/66959/
[21:24] <Arby> any suggestions
[21:25] <Riddell> Arby: why is that bool() there?
[21:25] <ScottK> Does the HP printer thing we install by default know printer status for non-HP printers?
[21:25] <Arby> no idea, that's where I found it
[21:25] <Arby> I didn't add it
[21:25] <Riddell> Arby: separate out the stuff inside the first brackets and put it in a   print str(..)
[21:25] <Riddell> see what it's doing
[21:27] <Arby> Riddell: you mean the bit within the bool() ?
[21:27] <Riddell> Arby: yep
[21:29] <Riddell> ScottK: no I don't think so
[21:29] <Riddell> ScottK: I don't like that HP app, vendor specific apps that take up space in the systray remind me too much of windaes
[21:30] <ScottK> Riddell: Well the HP app is doing everything the one we ship does for me and doing it without getting lost about are print jobs done.
[21:30] <ScottK> Of course my printer is HP ...
[21:31] <Riddell> ScottK: it actually doesn't manage to connect to one of my HP printers, but yeah, printer-applet and s-c-p-k needs love
[21:31] <Riddell> which, they'll get I'm confident
[21:33] <Riddell> ScottK: so, who's getting your vote?
[21:34] <ScottK> I'd like to vote for the 2000 edition of McCain, but he's not running.
[21:34] <Riddell> he's changed?
[21:34] <yuriy> there's a new version, McCain Vista
[21:34] <ScottK> He was a lot more independent and sensible before.
[21:35] <Riddell> I thought he was doing his best to separate himself from Bush this time?
[21:35] <ScottK> I'm going to hold my nose and vote for him anyway though because I think he's better than Obama.
[21:35] <yuriy> *sigh*
[21:35] <Riddell> yuriy: I presume you don't get a vote?
[21:35] <yuriy> Riddell: I do
[21:35] <yuriy> well, not really, because I live in MA
[21:35] <Riddell> oh, interesting
[21:35] <yuriy> it's a nominal vote :P
[21:35] <ScottK> Well he's been trying to "Be not like Bush, but keep the Bush faithful excited" and I think he's rather failed at both.
[21:36] <ScottK> yuriy: Same for me living in MD.
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: My dad feels the same way I think
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> he wants the 2000 McCain
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> but he doesn't really like either this time around
[21:36] <Riddell> yuriy: you're an Obama man I take it?
[21:36] <ScottK> I'm sort of betting that once the election crap is behind us that version will re-emerge.
[21:36] <yuriy> Riddell: yeah.
[21:37] <yuriy> somebody on planet linked to this today: http://donmilleris.com/2008/11/03/from-reagan-to-obama-a-brief-political-history/ great post
[21:37]  * ScottK has a brother living in MA who is also.
[21:37] <ScottK> yuriy: I saw that and it's really orthogonal to my reasoning.
[21:38] <ScottK> Personally I'm getting sick of the "If you're not for Obama you must be an idiot or a racist" discussions.
[21:38] <ScottK> Forgot: or ignorant.
[21:39] <yuriy> no, I can see why reasonable people would support McCain, especially pre-campaign McCain.  of course then there's Palin..
[21:39] <Riddell> so when you tick the box on the voting paper does it say the name of the presidential candidate or the name of the electoral college people?
[21:39] <Arby> Riddell: http://paste.ubuntu.com/66970/
[21:39] <ScottK> It actually says both here.
[21:39] <Riddell> and who are the electoral college people?  nominated by the parties?
[21:40] <Arby> Riddell: it doesn't seem to detect the text being present
[21:40] <Riddell> Arby: add a print statement for "not self.filechooserPPD.text().isEmpty" see what it's saying
[21:41] <ScottK> Riddell: Something like that.  I'm not actually sure.
[21:41] <Riddell> Arby: also I'd add one for just self.filechooserPPD.text()
[21:41] <Arby> just doing that very thing
[21:41] <Arby> and that
[21:42] <Riddell> you're getting into the debug mode of thinking :)
[21:42] <nixternal> bah Obama, even if he is from Chicago!
[21:43] <nixternal> though I will be at the Obama rally tomorrow :)
[21:43] <ScottK> Meeting girls??
[21:43] <nixternal> hopefully!
[21:43] <Arby> oh no hang on
[21:43] <nixternal> wearing my mccain/palin gear
[21:44] <Arby> the call is 'not isEmpty' so false == full
[21:44] <Arby> I have to go for a little while
[21:44] <Arby> I'll poke more later
[21:44] <ScottK> nixternal: That's not likely to work.
[21:44] <Arby> at least I know I'm on the right track
[21:44]  * Riddell can't work out who nixternal means to vote for
[21:45] <ScottK> He means to vote for McCain and try to pick up girls at the Obama rally.
[21:46] <nixternal> Riddell: I am voting for Bob Barr Jr....if he gets 5% of the vote here in Illinois, then he can be on the ballot uncontested in the future, or the Liberatarian party can
[21:46] <nixternal> my vote in Illinois doesn't really count anyways for who I really want to win, so I might as well attempt to make it count somewhat
[21:47] <ScottK> yuriy: I'll confess the other thing I'm betting on is McCain's continued health.
[21:47]  * nixternal bets McCain and Palin steal it tomorrow and win by 2 states
[21:47] <nixternal> haha, like a bad hand of poker :P
[21:48] <yuriy> nixternal: all for voting for 3rd parties
[21:48] <Riddell> gosh, that's all of you so far complaining about your vote not counting, why is there no campaign for a more sensible voting system?
[21:48]  * ScottK thinks either will be a significant improvement.
[21:48] <nixternal> Riddell: because the democrats and republicans would chew your arms off for even trying :)
[21:48] <ScottK> Riddell: There is periodically, but Consitutional amendments are, by design, very hard.
[21:48] <nixternal> that's what happens when you have 2-party politics for so long
[21:49] <ScottK> Actually most of the problem can be fixed at the state level.
[21:49] <ScottK> IIRC only ME allows it's electoral votes to be split.
[21:49] <ScottK> If more states did that, then there would be a lot less 'not counting'.
[21:49] <Riddell> right, all the states could do that
[21:49] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Fox can be under comedy
[21:49] <ScottK> ;-)
[21:49] <yuriy> there's that, and also I think it would help if more candidates that are considered fringe in their parties ran as independents
[21:50] <Riddell> DaSkreech: that upload settings to bzr branch application was only ever a two hour proof of concept, I never intended for it to go further
[21:51] <Arby> right finished showing the gf how add users from the commandline :)
[21:51] <nixternal> ScottK: Illinois won't do that because Chicago is Democrat and the rest of teh state is Republican...Chicago doesn't want to lose the hold it has on the rest of the state
[21:51] <Arby> back to work
[21:51] <bddebian> Sounds like PA
[21:51] <nixternal> boo
[21:51] <ScottK> nixternal: This is similarly true in most states.
[21:51] <DaSkreech> Riddell: ok
[21:52] <nixternal> wasabi mr da freezey :)
[21:52] <bddebian> Nada, you?
[21:52] <bddebian> I'm just celebrating the last day of my country as I know it
[21:52] <DaSkreech> Arby: you taught her adduser?
[21:52] <Arby> very basic
[21:52] <DaSkreech> hail nixternal
[21:53] <Arby> in the absence of a gui currently
[21:53] <crimsun> bddebian: err, didn't that happen in 1776?
[21:53] <Riddell> bddebian: who's box are you going to tick?
[21:53] <bddebian> crimsun: Now we are going back the other way :)
[21:53] <nixternal> bddebian: hahaha, celebrate tonight come on!
[21:53] <bddebian> Riddell: Dunno.  I'd like to vote for Bob Barr but it's a throw away vote unfortunately
[21:54] <crimsun> meh, I'm writing in mickey mouse
[21:54] <nixternal> bddebian: no it isn't...get the 5% so the liberatarian's can get their uncontested ballot space
[21:54] <DaSkreech> crimsun: That's copyright infringement
[21:54] <ScottK> bddebian: Well you live in a state that happens to have at least some potential to be competitive.
[21:54] <nixternal> crimsun: haha, I used to write mickey mouse all of the time
[21:54] <yuriy> bddebian: what state are you in/
[21:54] <nixternal> ya, McCain/Palin will win PA
[21:54] <DaSkreech> Who started that?
[21:54] <nixternal> Steal FL
[21:54] <crimsun> DaSkreech: no it's not; note the capitalisation and seemingly invisible extended characters
[21:54] <nixternal> shoot up Ohio
[21:55] <bddebian> nixternal: It'll never happen :(
[21:55] <bddebian> yuriy: Pennsylvania
[21:55] <yuriy> bddebian: oh, PA? that's considered a swing state, isn't it
[21:55] <nixternal> bddebian: youd on't think McCain/Palin will win PA?
[21:55] <nixternal> you are the only one, because even the libs are saying they are more than likely going to lose it
[21:55] <ScottK> McCain is behind there, but there's some potential for it to be gloxe.
[21:55] <ScottK> urgh
[21:55] <ScottK> gloxe/close
[21:55] <bddebian> I think Our Lord and Savior Obama will win and I'll be moving the new country of Texas ;-P
[21:55] <nixternal> don't believe the polls
[21:56] <nixternal> bddebian: hahahahhaha
[21:56] <nixternal> come here to Chicago, where you can see just how well obama has done to Cook County by placing the people he did a few years back
[21:56] <bddebian> Of course McCain is headed down the socialism train too, just slower
[21:56] <nixternal> 10% sales tax
[21:56] <nixternal> the highest property taxes in teh US
[21:56] <Riddell> bddebian: sounds like you should join "the #kubuntu-devel campaign for single transferable vote in the US"
[21:56] <nixternal> the highest amount of poverty per square mile now
[21:56] <nixternal> we totalyl rock here with the dems in charge
[21:56] <DaSkreech> Haiti?
[21:56] <bddebian> nixternal: I grew up in IL.  My folks still live there.  Chicago is a disaster. :(
[21:57] <nixternal> bddebian: where at in IL?
[21:57] <nixternal> hillbilly land?
[21:57] <nixternal> south of 80? :P
[21:57] <bddebian> nixternal: My mom is in Bloomington.  My dad is still on the farm in between Bloomington and Peoria
[21:57] <nixternal> yup, south of 80
[21:57] <crimsun> nixternal: unfortunately no USA political party will do much to change that
[21:58] <crimsun> change occurs on an individual level
[21:58] <jussi01> we should create a channel #kubuntu-devel-politics :D
[21:58] <bddebian> That's called #debian-devel ;-P
[21:58]  * nixternal goes back to work before the world blows up
[21:58] <nixternal> hahaha
[21:58] <jussi01> bddebian: lol
[21:58] <bddebian> nixternal: Why work?  When Obama is elected we won't need jobs.  The gubmint will do everything for us.
[21:59] <Riddell> nixternal: are you suggesting 10% sales tax is high?
[21:59] <yuriy> bddebian: why? wouldn't you still work?
[21:59] <bddebian> Hell yes when Nevada and Texas are at 0% :)
[21:59] <nixternal> lol, ya 10% is insane
[21:59] <Riddell> I think this is a different definition of the word "socialism" than that to which I have been used
[22:00] <bddebian> yuriy: Why work when I can get my free welfare check^ err "tax credit"
[22:00] <yuriy> Riddell: is this the first you've heard of this?
[22:00] <Riddell> yuriy: minimum VAT allowed in EU is 15%
[22:00] <smarter> 19,6% here in France :P
[22:01] <bddebian> Gimme a freakin' flat tax damnit! :)
[22:01] <yuriy> Riddell: I know, vaguely. I meant about how americans think any non-negligible tax is "socialism"
[22:01]  * jussi01 lives in a "socialist" country (well I guess you could call it that) and it works pretty well... we do have the largest mobile phone manufacturer in the world...
[22:01] <Riddell> jussi01: not worried that your country is overdependant on one company?
[22:01] <Riddell> I wonder what % of Finlandish GDP Nokia makes up
[22:01] <bddebian> yuriy: No tax isn't socialism per se.
[22:02] <crimsun> bddebian: I ain't gonna clean up your poop no matter who gets elected!
[22:02] <bddebian> heh
[22:02] <jussi01> Riddell: not overly, because we have a fantastic _renewable_ natural resource to fall back on when times are hard
[22:02] <Riddell> jussi01: you do?  snow power?
[22:02] <Riddell> lapland tourism?
[22:03] <jussi01> Riddell: the wood/paper industry
[22:03] <yuriy> jussi01: that's renewable? O_o
[22:03] <Riddell> that's hardly unique, plenty countries can compete with that
[22:03] <crimsun> but who can compete with chilled monkey brains?
[22:03] <sebas> Egypt!
[22:03] <smarter> Arby: actually, you have to use toPlainText().isEmpty() instead of text() which is deprecated
[22:04] <ScottK> jussi01: Sounds like Canada, but without the actual tech industry (Nokia).
[22:04] <jussi01> Riddell: I didnt say people couldnt compete, but the fact is the policies here make sure it is renewable and remains that way.
[22:04] <Arby> smarter: so you mean foo.toPlainText().isEmpty() ?
[22:04] <smarter> yes
[22:04] <jussi01> Not too mention we have one of the best education systems in the world...
[22:04] <yuriy> jussi01: interesting. linky about these policies?
[22:05] <jussi01> yuriy: moment please
[22:05] <ScottK> jussi01: I think such things work generally better in smaller more economically homogenous countries.
[22:05] <bddebian> Yeah, let's send them about 25,000,000 "immigrants" :)
[22:06] <yuriy> ScottK: agree on that
[22:06] <ScottK> Actually you can look at the insurance system in MA as an example of something similar.
[22:07] <ScottK> It'd never work nationally, but there it's good.
[22:07] <Arby> smarter: toPlainText() is an attribute error ?
[22:08] <smarter> strange
[22:09] <smarter> oh, it's toPlainText in PyQt
[22:09] <Riddell> nothing about toPlainText() in http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qlineedit.html
[22:10] <smarter> oh forget that
[22:10] <Riddell> and http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qlineedit.html#text-prop doesn't say anything about being deprecated
[22:10]  * smarter was looking at the wrong doc ^^'
[22:10] <bddebian> Hmm, I think I'll write in Condoleeza Rice
[22:10] <smarter> it's qtextedit text() which is deprecated
[22:10] <smarter> Arby: sorry :P
[22:10] <Arby> smarter: no problem :)
[22:11]  * smarter is obviously tired
[22:11] <smarter> 'night guys
[22:12] <jussi01> yuriy: I cant find the policies proper, I suspect they are in finnish, but this article gives some idea on the policies and how finns feel about the forrests, though it is hardly a policy article: ftp://ftp.fao.org/docrep/fao/005/y9882e/y9882e02.pdf
[22:14] <Riddell> bddebian: when you say socialism, are you thinking of communism or just a high tax government?
[22:14] <yuriy> neither of which is socialism...
[22:15] <ScottK> True.
[22:15] <Riddell> yuriy: you're thinking of an anarchistic system?
[22:15] <bddebian> Finland is a relatively large country at 5 million? :)
[22:15] <ScottK> But it does appear that the amount of 'tax cut' people will get under Obama's plan is more than the total tax they currently pay.
[22:16] <Riddell> a good size for a country that :)
[22:16] <jussi01> bddebian: yes, in land area, for europe it is large...
[22:16] <yuriy> no.. communism can be anarchistic, socialism is defined as everything is run by the government, isn't it?  I'm actually a bit fuzzy on the correct definitions, not having read the literature, but I feel like I have an idea of what it's not
[22:16] <bddebian> Riddell: Really it's probably more Marxist if we want to get specific.  I find all the "fairness" stuff to be garbage.
[22:16] <ScottK> Which isn't exactly Socialist, but some people are understandably grumpy about it.
[22:17] <bddebian> ScottK: People who don't pay taxes will be getting a "tax cut" as I understand it.
[22:17] <Arby> Riddell: currently I have http://paste.ubuntu.com/66983/
[22:17] <ScottK> yuriy: Right, but Communism has never actually happened.  The "Communists" ran "Socialist" governments until the glorious day some time in the future when true "Communism" would arrived.
[22:18] <Arby> Riddell: but the print occurs as soon as I click the provide PPD file radio button
[22:18] <ScottK> bddebian: Isn't that what I said?
[22:18] <Riddell> Arby: and is it empty?
[22:18] <Arby> Riddell: at that point yes
[22:18]  * ScottK wonders off.
[22:18] <Arby> I think the check is happening before I've entered the filename
[22:18] <bddebian> ScottK: Yeah, sorry misread
[22:19] <Arby> so I think I need to call the 'enable forward button' after the file has been selected
[22:19] <Arby> Riddell: does that sound sane or am I on the wrong track
[22:19] <Riddell> that seems sensible
[22:19] <Arby> right, good, now how to do that
[22:20] <Riddell> Arby: just call the method at the end of the browse_clicked() method
[22:20] <jussi01> hehe, its so funny to see predictions 5 years ago of what has just happened... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3026597.stm
[22:20] <Arby> Riddell: oh it really is that simple
[22:20] <Arby> good
[22:21] <danimo> heya
[22:21] <Riddell> hi danimo, we're talking politics tonight :)
[22:22] <bddebian> heh
[22:22] <jussi01> Still up there with being the most competitive, 6th most this year :D http://www.investinfinland.fi/news/2008/en_GB/WEF_08/
[22:22] <danimo> Riddell: What a coincidence, I was about to complain about bits I found when upgrading to intrepid
[22:22] <Riddell> danimo: go for it
[22:23] <danimo> Riddell: you know how that goes whenever I update distros, I prefer to whine to the devels, not the world (via planet)
[22:23] <bddebian> jussi01: Did anyone of us say we didn't like Finland or something? :)
[22:23] <JontheEchidna> amarok2 beta3 packages published :D
[22:23] <danimo> Riddell: first of all: is there something in the works to remedy #278471
[22:23] <jussi01> bddebian: no, I just love my adopted country :D
[22:23] <danimo> ?
[22:23] <bddebian> jussi01: Ah, OK :)  Where did you move from?
[22:23] <jussi01> bddebian: Im an Aussie :D
[22:24] <bddebian> Ah, I was considering running away to Australia until recently :)
[22:24] <danimo> Riddell: a friend of mine said randr-adjustment (e.g. when connecting a projector) worked fine for him on gnome, so I think there should be a better fix than disabling the xrandr change polling
[22:24] <jussi01> bddebian: Im going there next week :D
[22:24] <Riddell> bug 278471
[22:25] <danimo> Riddell: also, kmail shows none of my (dimap) accounts
[22:25] <Riddell> hmm, X, not my error
[22:25] <bddebian> jussi01: Well don't try to use the Internet.. ;-P
[22:25] <Riddell> not my area I mean
[22:25] <Arby> Riddell: that got it thanks.
[22:25] <danimo> Riddell: whoms?
[22:25] <jussi01> bddebian: hehe
[22:25] <Arby> on to the next error
[22:26] <danimo> Riddell: and when trying to connect with kopete, connecting any of my jabber accounts crashes kopete
[22:26] <jussi01> bddebian: we have gorgeous internet here, 2/2 comes with the house free, for 19.90 euro per month I can update to 100/10...
[22:26] <danimo> Riddell: and as for politics: obama will win, that's rather boring
[22:27] <danimo> Riddell: (assuming that's what's been debated)
[22:27] <bddebian> jussi01: I was kidding.  I was talking about the recent blocking of sites in Australia
[22:27] <bddebian> danimo: It's not boring, it's frightening
[22:27] <jussi01> bddebian: I didnt know about that
[22:27] <Nightrose> danimo: jabber crashes here as well on first login - but works after restarting
[22:28] <danimo> Nightrose: "eine vertrauensbildende maßnahme" :)
[22:28] <Nightrose> hehe
[22:28] <Riddell> danimo: this is what you are hoping not to do?  http://blog.nixternal.com/2008.10.22/kubuntu-intrepid-dual-monitor-blinking/
[22:28] <danimo> Riddell: the funny thing is: I don't have a dual monitor setup
[22:28] <danimo> Riddell: just a build in LCD with an optional external VGA output
[22:29] <danimo> also, who had the idea to make "text alongside icons" option default?
[22:29] <bddebian> jussi01: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2008/10/27/1224955916155.html
[22:29] <danimo> Nightrose: it crashes always
[22:29] <Riddell> danimo: Nuno
[22:29] <danimo> bddebian: it can't get worse than it is, so I welcome any change
[22:29] <danimo> Riddell: arghs
[22:30] <nixternal> heh, only the party will change, the results will stay the same :P
[22:30] <danimo> we should have remove those stupid options in KDE years ago
[22:30] <bddebian> danimo: Oh yes it can.
[22:30]  * danimo doesn't see how
[22:31] <danimo> and replaced it with a selective "text for this important option" flag for specific actions in xmlgui
[22:31] <danimo> having text for all options is just silly
[22:31] <jussi01> bddebian: oh bleh...
[22:32] <danimo> launch kopete for an example
[22:34] <jussi01> so Riddell, any idea when we will have flash in webkitkde? jaunty already?
[22:34] <Riddell> jussi01: Qt 4.5 I believe, which should be in jaunty
[22:34] <DaSkreech> jussi01: Cool yo uare on Jaiku as well :)
[22:35] <jussi01> DaSkreech: yeps :D
[22:36] <JontheEchidna> Can somebody test the amarok 2 beta3 packages? http://www.kubuntu.org/node/54
[22:36] <JontheEchidna> I got a report of breakage but I can't reproduce
[22:39] <danimo> Czessi__: ping?
[22:42] <danimo> Riddell: any hints about kmail?
[22:42] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: don't you want to metnion intrepid packages?
[22:43] <Nightrose> JontheEchidna: thx for the work btw :)
[22:43] <Riddell> danimo: it's not something I've heard of, what happens when you add back the accounts?
[22:43] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: working well here, what's to test?
[22:43] <Arby> Riddell: I think I have a fix for bug 204763
[22:44] <Arby> http://paste.ubuntu.com/66999/
[22:44] <Arby> Riddell: does that ^^ diff look reasonable to you?
[22:47] <Riddell> Arby: yes (without testing it myself)
[22:47] <Riddell> Arby: want me to test and apply to KDE SVN?
[22:48] <Arby> Riddell: that would be nice
[22:48] <Arby> Riddell: unless you want to wait until I've looked at some of the other bugs
[22:48] <Arby> then do it all at once
[22:50] <Riddell> Arby: atomic commits are best
[22:50] <Riddell> Arby: after a couple more of these you can just ask for an svn account
[22:51] <Arby> Riddell: OK then please commit when you have time
[22:52] <Arby> that'll do for one night I think
[22:53] <Riddell> Arby: when I click Forward after selecting a file it doesn't actually go forward
[22:53] <Arby> Riddell: if there are any problems let me know tomorrow
[22:53] <danimo> Riddell: will look into it
[22:53] <Arby> oh
[22:53] <Arby> it did for me
[22:53] <Arby> let me look again
[22:53] <Riddell> Arby: I'm not selecting a ppd file, is there some validation happening?
[22:54] <Arby> ah that'll be it
[22:54] <Arby> not enough obviously
[22:54] <Arby> I'll look at it gain tomorrow
[22:54] <Arby> *again
[22:54] <Riddell> I get a backtrace too http://paste.ubuntu.com/67002/
[22:55] <Riddell> Arby: whatever my issue is I don't think it's due to your patch so I'll commit
[22:55] <Riddell> Arby: there's bugs on bugs.kde.org too if you're wanting to look for more :)
[22:55] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: a symbol mismatch on startup
[22:55] <claydoh> if there is a kde 3.5.11 will it be built for hardy?
[22:55] <Arby> Riddell: I'll fix ours first :)
[22:56] <Arby> I hit a couple while doing this one
[22:56]  * JontheEchidna put a story on kubuntu.org but I couldnt' get the picture to show up :(
[22:56] <Arby> plus there's about 20 in LP
[22:56] <Arby> Riddell: thanks for all the help
[22:56] <JontheEchidna> oh, Kubuntu 8.10 is not the Hardy Heron
[22:59] <rgreening> Riddell: anything on the plate for today that can be fired at me?
[23:02]  * a|wen votes for a kde 3.5.11 version of kdepim
[23:02] <Riddell> rgreening: fix danimo's problems? :)
[23:02] <rgreening> Riddell: I'm a programmer not a pychologist
[23:03] <rgreening> ba-dum-bum
[23:03] <rgreening> :)
[23:03] <Riddell> rgreening: able to test jabber in kopete?
[23:03] <rgreening> sure.
[23:03] <rgreening> I have Jabber acct and use kopete
[23:03] <rgreening> whats the issue
[23:05] <rgreening> I've noticed jabber dying of late. Is that the issue? I had assumed it was an issue at the other end.
[23:05] <rgreening> Riddell: ^^
[23:06] <Riddell> rgreening: just if it crashes when connecting
[23:07] <ScottK> claydoh: I built the 3.5.10 packages and I've since upgraded to Intrepid, so it'd depend on a volunteer to do the work.
[23:09] <rgreening> Riddell: so is the "not connecting to jabber" or kopete having some sort of crash as a result of not connecting? And is there a bug report?
[23:09] <claydoh> ScottK: thanks
[23:10] <Riddell> rgreening: 22:26 < danimo> Riddell: and when trying to connect with kopete, connecting any of my jabber accounts crashes kopete
[23:10] <a|wen> ScottK: if a new 3.5.11 comes around i'm willing to give it a shot... but the kde svn 3.5 branch seems pretty stall atm
[23:10] <Riddell> rgreening: no bug report that I know of
[23:11] <JontheEchidna> libplasma is now part of kdelibs
[23:12] <Riddell> yay
[23:12] <JontheEchidna> Binary compat for now on too. Bonus!
[23:13] <Riddell> awooga
[23:13] <rgreening> danimo: regarding your Kopete issue, can you file a bug and poke me with the report? I'll look into it for you. I have jabber but no kopete crash (though jabber isn't connecting at the moment).
[23:13] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: do you mean libphonon?
[23:14] <JontheEchidna> nope, libplasma
[23:14] <rgreening> where was it before
[23:14] <rgreening> disneyland? :)
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> kdebase-workspace
[23:15] <rgreening> ah
[23:15] <rgreening> ok, makes way more sense
[23:15] <JontheEchidna> ya, they weren't going to make it part of kdelibs because it was so infantile when it was incepted
[23:15] <Riddell> danimo: do you have libqca2-plugin-ossl installed?
[23:16] <a|wen> what do we do about fixing in jaunty before fixing in intrepid?
[23:17] <a|wen> is jaunty ready for that?
[23:18] <Riddell> a|wen: not open yet
[23:18] <Riddell> pitti will copy SRUs by hand to jaunty
[23:19] <a|wen> Riddell: okay, thx
[23:24]  * Riddell snoozes
[23:25] <rgreening> nite Riddell:
[23:27] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: set your story to Raw HTML, that shows the image.  also added a friendly URL Path
[23:27] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: thanks for taking care of Amarok
[23:27] <JontheEchidna> yw
[23:29] <DaSkreech> seele:
[23:30] <DaSkreech> http://wadejolson.wordpress.com/2008/11/03/camp-kde-2009-cfp-clarification/
[23:30] <DaSkreech> bah
[23:30] <DaSkreech> seele: http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1725/nineinchfailsur6.jpg
[23:34]  * JontheEchidna needs to smallen up the amarok pic
[23:35] <DaSkreech> Tm_T: Myrtti isn't your sister?
[23:35] <DaSkreech> jussi01: join #kde !
[23:35] <DaSkreech> on jaiku :)