[00:30]  * Hobbsee preemptively grumbles
[00:31] <rgreening> o/ Hobbsee
[00:31] <DaSkreech> Hobbsee: nice BS submission
[00:31] <DaSkreech> How are you?
[00:31] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: oh, thanks :)
[00:31] <Hobbsee> i'm annoyed at the enxt incarnation of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/konversation/+bug/218958
[00:31]  * JontheEchidna was about to talk about that \o/
[00:32] <JontheEchidna> now the gnomies know how we feel
[00:32] <Hobbsee> it's not in k-d-s this time
[00:32] <Hobbsee> i know it was patched in both k-d-s and konversation before.
[00:32] <JontheEchidna> oh yeah, there's a debian patch for hardcoding that
[00:33] <JontheEchidna> but I thought we also patched it
[00:33] <Hobbsee> right.  Whos' been incompetent.
[00:34]  * DaSkreech raises hand
[00:35] <Hobbsee> so, it was patched once...debian dropped it, we didn't takeit
[00:35]  * JontheEchidna bets 10_debian_channel.diff is to blame
[00:35] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: it is, but we modified that afterwards.
[00:36] <Hobbsee> or edited it
[00:36] <Hobbsee> (& Renamed it, iirc)
[00:36] <JontheEchidna> could have been an improper merge
[00:37] <Hobbsee> !!!!
[00:37] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: yeah, hence the "someone is incompetent again"
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> * Merge with Debian, remaining change just the .orig md5sum,
[00:37] <JontheEchidna> ^that'd do it
[00:37] <Hobbsee> konversation (1.0.1-4ubuntu6) hardy; urgency=low
[00:37] <Hobbsee>   * Edit 10_debian_channel.diff, renamed to
[00:37] <Hobbsee>     kubuntu_05_default_channels.diff, to default to #kubuntu.
[00:37] <Hobbsee>     (LP: #218958)
[00:37] <Hobbsee>   * Add this, and previous patch, to debian/patches/series, so they actually
[00:37] <Hobbsee>     apply
[00:37] <Hobbsee>  -- Sarah Hobbs < hobbsee@ubuntu.com (hobbsee: 2269)  [universe-contributors]  [ubuntu-dev]  [ubuntu-bugcontrol]  [ubuntumembers]  [ubuntu-core-dev]  [bugsquad] >   Fri, 18 Apr 2008 16:16:47 +1000
[00:37] <Hobbsee> i did change it.  Then they broke it.
[00:37] <Hobbsee> Richard Birnie <Arbyuk@googlemail.com>
[00:38] <Hobbsee> grrrr...
[00:38] <vorian> :o
[00:38]  * JontheEchidna hides from the inevitable stick
[00:38] <JontheEchidna> oh, he ain't here
[00:39]  * JontheEchidna preemptively hides
[00:39] <Hobbsee> yeah, well, he will get the rough end of the stick, when he does turn up.
[00:39] <Hobbsee> because missing stuff like that is pretty major....
[00:39] <Hobbsee> and now it's going to need a SRU.
[00:40] <JontheEchidna> that was one of his first merges I think, looking at the date
[00:40] <rgreening> ouh. glad it wasn't.
[00:40]  * rgreening doesn't want to incur the wrath of Hobbsee
[00:41] <Hobbsee> bad choice for a first merge, apparently.  But why didn't the sponsor notice?
[00:45] <Hobbsee> wow, managed to drop how many changelog entries as well?
[00:46] <rgreening> holy smokes
[00:47]  * Hobbsee goes thru the diff, with increased displeasure.
[00:47] <JontheEchidna> I think this is something I should have noticed when I updated it for 1.1...
[00:47] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: oh, was this you?
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> I didn't do the merge
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> Arby did
[00:48] <Hobbsee> that's what I thought.
[00:48] <Hobbsee> oh, right, you did the next one.
[00:48] <JontheEchidna> but I did notice the debian channel patch, I just assumed k-d-s handled it
[00:48] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: it does (as well), but that doens't work for people like me, who run konversation on gnome, etc.
[00:49] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: besides, it's reasonable to assume that the last uploader didn't massively screw up.
[00:49] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[00:49] <Hobbsee> and that ifthey did, the sponsor caught it, and fixed it
[00:51] <Hobbsee> really nasty choice for a first merge, i'd suggest...
[00:52] <JontheEchidna> well I don't know for sure if it was his first, but that seems around the time he showed up
[00:53] <JontheEchidna> but around thereabouts I'd think
[00:53] <Hobbsee> diff's 632 lines.
[00:53] <Hobbsee> a lot is cruft.
[00:53] <Hobbsee> ouch.
[00:55] <Hobbsee> oh, blah.  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/16763966/konversation_1.0.1-6ubuntu1_1.1-0ubuntu1.diff.gz is the diff i actually wanted.
[00:56] <JontheEchidna> isn't that the diff for my upload?
[00:56] <Hobbsee> oh, so it is.
[00:57] <Hobbsee> launchpad hasn't generated the diff for the one i wanted.
[00:59] <Hobbsee> DD4D5088.  Hmmm.
[01:01] <Hobbsee> oh *dear*.
[01:01] <Hobbsee> i found what i didn't want to find.
[01:02] <rgreening> which is what? THe suspense is killing us....
[01:03] <Hobbsee> he really did completely remove the kubuntu patch (along with (all?) our others), and added the debian channel patch.
[01:04] <rgreening> oh
[01:04] <JontheEchidna> so he basically synced it?
[01:04] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: well, that's the weird thing.
[01:04] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: he's kept a few of the changelog entries, it appears.
[01:05] <rgreening> oops huhb
[01:05] <rgreening> s/huh/huhb
[01:06] <Hobbsee> he's kept anything before the first merge from debian of it.
[01:07] <Hobbsee> as in, in changelog entries
[01:07] <Hobbsee> apart from that, looks like a sync.
[01:09]  * DaSkreech pokes Hobbsee
[01:09] <DaSkreech> Make Firefox stop being a packhorse
[01:10] <Hobbsee> DaSkreech: i probably should fix konversation first, as i've merged it a fwe times before.
[01:10] <DaSkreech> :-)
[01:11] <JontheEchidna> firefox deps are boing to be discussed at uds
[01:11] <Hobbsee> oh good ;)
[01:11] <rgreening> FF -> ubufox -> apturl (this is the problem package IMO) for all the gnomish deps
[01:12] <rgreening> JontheEchidna: yeah. I'm the Kubuntu rep to work with asac and fta
[01:12] <rgreening> :)
[01:12] <JontheEchidna> there is a wishlist for and adept kioslaves at bugs.kde.org
[01:12] <DaSkreech> Will Qt firefox be available for the jackrabbit?
[01:14] <jdong> ack gtk-qt really mangles some apps like Firefox
[01:15] <Hobbsee> yay, kde-based firefox!
[01:15] <jdong> the Picasso look *IS* a bit amusing for a few minutes though :)
[01:16] <JontheEchidna> gtk-qt-engine d00d fell off the face of the earth after hardy :(
[01:17] <JontheEchidna> well he did fix a crash that popped up with KDE 4.1 and he has added translations as he has recieved them
[01:18] <JontheEchidna> if only the gtk people could do something like the Qt people are doing with QGtkStyle
[01:19] <frankiJnr> hi guys i'm interested in getting involved in kubuntu.
[01:19] <frankiJnr> i finish my exams soon so im gonna have a lot of free time :)
[01:19] <DaSkreech> frankiJnr: Great here is a fire. I'll throw you in it
[01:19] <frankiJnr> is this the channel i should be in?
[01:20] <frankiJnr> hey im a bit of a pyro.
[01:20] <JontheEchidna> This might be of interest then: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu
[01:20] <frankiJnr> cool thanks
[01:22] <frankiJnr> does KubuntuArtwork involve plasma themeing?
[01:23] <frankiJnr> i notice kubuntu uses the default oxygen plasma theme is this intentional?
[01:25] <frankiJnr> i could maybe try working on something more like the blue kde look which kubuntu used to have?
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> for this release it was intentional
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> I don't know about future releases though
[01:27] <DaSkreech> frankiJnr: WElcome to submit :)
[01:27] <DaSkreech> how much plasma themeing have you done?
[01:27] <frankiJnr> none as of yet. but there seems to be some guides
[01:28] <frankiJnr> ill make some mockups first of course
[01:28] <DaSkreech> Ok
[01:28] <DaSkreech> hang out here and #plasma :)
[01:28] <frankiJnr> ok thanks
[01:29] <frankiJnr> where should i post mockups btw?
[01:32] <JontheEchidna> I think the wiki in general
[01:33] <frankiJnr> do you know of anyone else who is working on a kubuntu plasma-theme?
[01:37] <JontheEchidna> I started work on one a while back but I sorta stopped working on it
[01:37] <JontheEchidna> Oxygen Connections
[01:38] <JontheEchidna> feel free to improve on it
[01:38] <JontheEchidna> or do your own thing
[01:39] <DaSkreech> do yo own thang mon
[01:49] <frankiJnr> the oxygen theme gui theme is to far off the old kubuntu look
[01:50] <frankiJnr> but the plasma theme doesnt fit in with the kubuntu look
[01:51] <frankiJnr> sorry i meant the gui is _not_ to far off
[01:51] <JontheEchidna> that's what I aimed to make Oxygen Connections^
[01:51] <JontheEchidna> you can download it from the theme installer
[01:52] <frankiJnr> ok thanks
[01:54] <frankiJnr> the look of a distro should be unique. plasma looks like it really give us that ability.
[01:54] <frankiJnr> any got to go
[01:54] <frankiJnr> *in an austrian accent* ill be back
[01:56] <yuriy> hmm, it's not on there any more, but I think the website used to say how Kubuntu tries to be the best distribution of KDE or something like that
[01:56] <yuriy> i.e. not overly uniquely themed
[01:59] <DaSkreech> Not sure how I see how those two follow each other
[02:09] <NamShub> oxy connection is not bad at all
[02:10] <NamShub> except for the 100% opaque folder view :)
[02:18] <DaSkreech> Wheee
[02:24] <coreymon77> holy netsplits batman!
[02:24] <coreymon77> :P
[02:36]  * Hobbsee celebrates http://hobbsee.com/tmp/kubuntu.debdiff
[02:56] <Hobbsee> right.  SRU pushed, and jaunty is fixed as well.
[06:57] <Hobbsee> Arby: did you know that you can run debdiff against the old thing, and what you've newly created, to check that everything you expected to be changed has been, and nothing else?
[06:58] <Arby> Arby: yes I did. that still assumes that one can understand the output of a debdiff
[06:58] <Arby> arrgh fail
[06:59] <Arby> Hobbsee:  ^^
[06:59] <Arby> It's pretty cryptic to newbies
[06:59] <Arby> anyway I've learnt a lot since then
[07:00] <Hobbsee> Arby: yeah...i did think that was a rather *brutal* first merge.
[07:01] <Arby> it wasn't my very first but one of the earliest
[07:01] <Hobbsee> Arby: make sure you pipe it to a file, then open that in something that has syntax highlighting
[07:01] <Hobbsee> even so.  it's huge.
[07:01] <Arby> well, we live and learn. Thanks for cleaning up
[07:02] <Arby> got to go to work now
[09:06] <larsivi> hi - sorry for spamming here, but #kubuntu has yet to be able to help me with a problem
[09:08] <larsivi> Open KDE3 apps (Konversation and Basket) are not kept in the session when I restart the computer, so I have to start them again - and also basket (from repo) isn't registered with krunner
[09:08] <larsivi> Further, screen size settings are always wrong until I open screen settings dialog, at which point it click into place (without me having to do anything)
[09:09] <larsivi> kmail won't show my added custom spam icon/actions on the toolbar, they're in the right click menu though
[09:10] <larsivi> for jabber accounts in kopete, I get an error which says the probably cause is missing QCA TLS, which isn't missing afaik
[09:11] <larsivi> Ctrl+F doesn't work in konqueror
[09:12] <larsivi> In addition I'm affected by a major regression on intel graphics performance and knode memory leak (both are reported)
[09:13] <larsivi> so even before considering what I think is missing, the multitude of regressions show that this was a less than perfect release
[09:16] <Hobbsee> larsivi: well, that was a given - it was the first one with major kde changes.
[09:16] <Hobbsee> re: basket, it looks to be a kde3 app in kde4, so probably isn't registered with kde4 stuff
[09:17] <Hobbsee> ditto konversation
[09:17] <emgent> Hobbsee: heya :)
[09:17] <Hobbsee> hey emgent!
[09:17] <larsivi> Hobbsee: I understand the issue with moving to kde4, but there seems to be very few, if anyone that actually understands and can help with the issues
[09:18] <Hobbsee> larsivi: people are all learning.
[09:18] <larsivi> Hobbsee: as for basket, fair enough, I think it came from universe, but konversation is mentioned on the kubuntu front page as one of the kde3 apps left
[09:18] <Hobbsee> larsivi: i suspect that's true for the developers of kubuntu, too, who often don't directly add features to kde apps.
[09:18] <larsivi> I am able to start konvi properly from krunner though, it just doesn't stick in the session
[09:19] <Hobbsee> strange.
[10:04] <larsivi> oh - how can I find out who is responsible for a given translated string? in this case the name of keys on the keyboard used in system settings for shortcuts
[10:06] <larsivi> and when can we see Wayland in ubuntu? :)
[11:19] <Hobbsee> Riddell: um, how carefully are you actually checking sponsorship requests?
[11:20] <Riddell> just say what you think the problem is please
[11:22] <Hobbsee> Riddell: well, I just fixed the "ubuntu konversation joins #debian" by default again.  The first time was from an incorrect merge, which iirc (and i havent' checked recently) was from you, and the second was from Arby, which you sponsored into the archive.  I've pushed a SRU now, but i'm starting to wonder how much else is getting missed, and what the implications on our userbase are.
[11:22] <Hobbsee> I know you're terribly busy, but...
[11:23] <Riddell> that's only arguably a bug and it really doesn't quality as a high-impact bug required by SRUs
[11:25] <Hobbsee> perhaps not.  Except that the #debian people will probably eat the (k)ubuntu people, when they ask for ubuntu help in there.  Pitti accepted it anyway, so that part's effectively done.  My concern is more the fact that these relatively simple errors are not being picked up, when sponsoring is being done.
[11:26] <Hobbsee> Do you need more core developers to sponsor kubuntu stuff, and fix the problem that way, or?
[11:32] <Riddell> ?  we always need more core devs, seems to me this pet bug is solved now so time to move onto other people's pet bugs
[11:32] <Riddell> apachelogger: speaking of which, did we resolve that kdeedu issue?
[11:35]  * Hobbsee hopes this is an isolated pet bug, then, and won't mention the kde4libs 4.1.1 tarball issue
[11:37]  * Riddell pats Hobbsee on the head and goes back to the other 10,000 bugs we have
[11:37] <Hobbsee> Riddell: :) good luck with them.
[11:50]  * Hobbsee prods a few bugs in non-kubuntu directions, helping triage them
[11:51] <larsivi> I posted one yesterday that _could_ be kdepim ;)
[11:52] <larsivi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/+bug/293081
[11:53] <Hobbsee> 35 --> 32.  \o/
[11:54] <Hobbsee> larsivi: that should probably be reported at bugs.kde.org (then you can link it).  I doubt any kubuntu people actually touch knode.
[12:07] <larsivi> Hobbsee: done
[12:08] <Hobbsee> larsivi: cool :)  Did you link it?
[12:08] <larsivi> yes
[12:09] <Hobbsee> \o/
[12:29] <larsivi> ok, found a workaround for hte kopete qca-tls issue, apparently it is reported
[12:32] <larsivi> Ctrl+F in konqueror is very strange, using some other combo not involving Ctrl works, but not something _with_ Ctrl - seems to only apply to search since Ctrl+A and others work
[12:41] <JontheEchidna> kde rev 879971
[12:45] <jussi01> Does anyone know how to request a read receipt in kmail?
[12:46] <jussi01> ahh, carap... wrong place. ill ask in #kubuntu sorry.
[12:47] <apachelogger_> jussi01: somewhere in the options I'd say
[12:48] <apachelogger_> Riddell: ping
[12:48] <jussi01> apachelogger: the only thing it _might_ be is "request disposition notification" which I have no idea what they are talking about...
[12:49] <JontheEchidna> Hobbsee: thx for the help with the beasties
[12:49] <Hobbsee> JontheEchidna: you're welcome :)
[12:49] <larsivi> heh - kmail's toolbar followed suit after a restart - at least been able to get rid of many of my intrepid issues today
[12:50] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna, ScottK: did asac come up with a better idea than working around the problem?
[12:50] <apachelogger_> can't access my mail right now
[12:51] <Riddell> hola apachelogger_
[12:51] <JontheEchidna> he said something about changing something app-install-data to handle recommends
[12:51] <JontheEchidna> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-bugs/2008-November/date.html
[12:51] <apachelogger_> yo Riddell, do we need an SRU bug for 4.1.3?
[12:52] <Riddell> apachelogger_: I don't think so, I told slandasek we'd upload this evening unless he objected
[12:53] <apachelogger_> ok
[12:53] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna: sounds promising, at least now there is movement to address the actual issue ;-)
[12:53] <apachelogger_> now only ubufox needs to be demoted to suggests and all is good again
[12:55] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: sweet amarok commit
[12:58] <Riddell> apachelogger_: what happened with kdeedu?
[13:00] <apachelogger_> Riddell: wrt the issue annma was complaining about?
[13:01] <rgreening> good morning peeps :)
[13:02] <JontheEchidna> nobody can take away my right to shoot wolves from helicopters
[13:03] <jussi01> JontheEchidna: rofl!!
[13:03] <JontheEchidna> SNL last night was great
[13:04] <apachelogger_> je ne comprends pas
[13:05] <JontheEchidna> oh crap, I have an openweek session to do tomorrow
[13:05] <jjesse> doh
[13:05] <jjesse> at least you remembered now and not tomorrow :)
[13:05] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna: did u publish tha amarok2b3 to k-m-kde4?
[13:06] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger_: yus, and handled the website's release story
[13:06] <apachelogger_> indeedish
[13:06] <apachelogger_> waste of space
[13:06] <apachelogger_> that shot must be from you :P
[13:07] <JontheEchidna> the angle is messed up so it looks... uneven
[13:07] <apachelogger_> and it wastes space
[13:07] <JontheEchidna> but I had enough trouble with getting the picture to show up in the first place
[13:07] <apachelogger_> anyway
[13:07] <apachelogger_> typo
[13:07] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna: "To update to Amarok 2 beta 2, please follow these instructions:"
[13:07] <JontheEchidna> doh
[13:11] <apachelogger_> \o/
[13:11] <apachelogger_> https://edge.launchpad.net/~we-love-harald
[13:11] <apachelogger_> I have 4 groupies now
[13:11] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Nothing that's doable for Intrepid.  He (asac) wants a session at UDS to figure a better plan for Jaunty.
[13:11]  * apachelogger_ thinks Xand3r should lock the group and only accept one new groupe with every new major KDE release
[13:12] <ScottK> apachelogger_: rgreening volunteered to work on that one at UDS.
[13:12] <apachelogger_> ScottK: sounds good
[13:12] <ScottK> apachelogger_: One related point is that someone needs to talk to mvo about making apturl not depend on synaptic, but to work with adept too.
[13:13] <apachelogger_> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/apturl/+bug/293533
[13:13] <ScottK> Yeah.  I think talk to him about it and not just do a bug.
[13:15] <apachelogger_> ScottK: well, not much to talk about IMO ; -)
[13:15] <ScottK> Interesting that it was asac that filed it.
[13:16] <ScottK> I think that's a fall out from our discussion yesterday.
[13:17] <apachelogger_> ScottK: yes, he's trying to resolve the issue now
[13:18] <Riddell> apachelogger_: yes, the issue annma was complaining about
[13:18] <rgreening> ScottK: that's a similar patch to what I already sent to mvo for apt
[13:18] <apachelogger_> Riddell: khangman depends on kanagram in the 4.1.3 packaging
[13:18] <apachelogger_> Riddell: there's no other way to resolve this without introducing a new package
[13:19] <apachelogger_> jaunty will get kdeedu-kvtml-data though
[13:19] <ScottK> apachelogger_: Aren't we already introducing a new package to fix the circular build-dep?
[13:19] <apachelogger_> ScottK: we didn't decide that yet, did we?
[13:20] <ScottK> apachelogger_: I thought we did?
[13:20] <ScottK> apachelogger_: So how do we solve that in the current 4.1.3 packaging?
[13:20] <apachelogger_> I honestly don't remember
[13:20] <apachelogger_> ScottK: we don't
[13:20] <apachelogger_> ScottK: rgreening wanted to talk to sime again
[13:21] <ScottK> apachelogger_: OK.  IIRC we're supposed to upload tomorrow ...
[13:21] <ScottK> So not a lot of chit chat time.
[13:25] <rgreening> I just sent a ping/followup to Sime on kde-bindings
[13:25] <rgreening> As well as to mvo for the apt/SRU fix I sent
[13:26] <ScottK> Great.
[13:26] <rgreening> I can patch apturl similar to what I have done for apt. Infact the script I wrote can be used for both I believe.
[13:27] <rgreening> or at least tweaked. It's pretty simple and extendable
[13:32] <larsivi__> so, the the translation for "Space" (as in the space bar) is all wrong in Kubuntu (it is translated into the norwegian word for outer space), whereas it is correct in KDE - the norwegian translation team won't touch it, as launchpad for translations is generally considered to be a product from hell
[13:33] <ScottK> Riddell: ^^^ We really need to figure out how to make translations actually work for us.
[13:33] <larsivi__> I recommend that you disable launchpad translations for KDE (or most things really), it would save you a lot of hard feelings, and may even gain you a few users
[13:33] <larsivi__> ScottK: ^
[13:34] <ScottK> larsivi__: You won't get any argument from me.
[13:34] <ScottK> Currently LP seems to actively make things worse.
[13:34] <Tonio_> hi there
[13:34] <ScottK> Heya Tonio_.
[13:35] <larsivi__> the no-nn translation coordinators actively recommend against using ubuntu/kubuntu for this reason only
[13:37] <apachelogger_> larsivi__: I have they feeling no-nn is not alone on this
[13:37]  * apachelogger_ finds it very understandable as well
[13:37] <larsivi__> apachelogger_: yes, I think I've seen it mentioned on planetkde
[13:38]  * Tonio_ works on a unattended-upgrades fork for shutdown upgrading
[13:38] <smarter> the trouble is, I don't think we can disable lp translations easily
[13:38] <Tonio_> if people are interested in testing.... :)
[13:39] <apachelogger_> smarter: we can override it in intrepid by manually uploading the packages
[13:39] <apachelogger_> in jaunty we can do a lot more though ;-)
[13:39] <smarter> that would be great, except for the few distros tools which are translated via launchpad
[13:39] <larsivi__> smarter: although the KDE translators are the bigger group of complainers, the problems probably doesn't affect that only?
[13:40]  * apachelogger_ would rather see the launchpad stuff fixed and get a general permission to poke the rosetta team in the eye whenever another issue appears
[13:40] <apachelogger_> larsivi__: KDE is affected the most
[13:40] <smarter> larsivi_: I heard Evolution had some issues too, but that's all
[13:40] <smarter> if there was really an issue with gnome et all, it would have been fixed
[13:40] <apachelogger_> mainly because we had to reimport >50% of all strings
[13:41] <larsivi__> I believe Rosetta also is considered a horrible tool for translations, at least compared to lokalize and friends
[13:41] <smarter> it is
[13:41] <apachelogger_> some rough edges it got
[13:41] <smarter> no way to coordinate effort and to have something consistent
[13:41]  * apachelogger_ finds the QA much more disturbing though
[13:42] <smarter> yesterday I found a typo in Adept, which is translated in LP
[13:43] <smarter> (in the French translation)
[13:43] <apachelogger_> the main toolbar of kmail got a typo in the german translation
[13:43] <apachelogger_> in-your-face-typo(tm)
[13:45] <Riddell> ScottK: LP translations have been unacceptably bad this release, it's on my todo list for today to hassle them about the strings which are still missing
[13:46] <ScottK> Riddell: That's good and needs doing, but it seems the process is pretty fundamentally broken.
[13:47] <apachelogger_> Tonio_: what is a shutdown upgrade?
[13:51] <Riddell> ScottK: I'd say it was a series of serious bugs and problems rather than it being fundamentally broken, although I agree the end result does look fundamentally broken
[13:52] <larsivi__> Riddell: the complaints from the no-nn team aren't new, I heard the same at least as early as last year
[13:52] <ScottK> Riddell: Additionally there is a wide spread view that Rosetta is a nightmare for translators.
[13:53]  * ScottK recalls reading a blog posting recently saying a presentation on the process scared contributors off.
[13:53] <apachelogger_> isn't the ease of use one of the pro-rosetta arguments? Oo
[13:55] <Riddell> it depends if you know how to use svn and kbabel (or text edit .po files) if you do that's easier but only for apps in KDE SVN
[13:55] <ScottK> Riddell, apachelogger_: http://www.glatzor.de/blog/blog-details/select_category/1/article/ubuntu-l10n-de-talks/?tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=4&cHash=1f79dd20ad
[13:55] <Riddell> if you don't, web interface is easier
[13:56] <apachelogger_> Riddell: a regular translator should not have to use svn at all
[13:56] <apachelogger_> meaning they should not commit directly anyway
[13:58] <apachelogger_> ScottK, Riddell: maybe we should create a list of things that have to be improved?
[13:58] <larsivi__> lokalize/kbabel has svn support
[13:58] <ScottK> apachelogger_: I think we should pick a community member who's going to UDS to become the expert and beat the drums in person.
[13:58] <apachelogger_> larsivi__: you still would have to know how to configure it and things
[13:59] <apachelogger_> ScottK: I vote for you
[13:59] <jjesse> is ScottK going to UDS
[13:59] <ScottK> apachelogger_: I'm not going.
[13:59] <ScottK> jjesse: No
[13:59] <apachelogger_> oh my
[13:59] <apachelogger_> jjesse: you are aren't you?
[13:59] <jjesse> yes i am
[13:59]  * apachelogger_ votes for jjesse 
[13:59] <jjesse> so is rgreening and nixternal
[14:00] <ScottK> rgreening already volunteered to be our KDE/Firefox expert.
[14:00] <apachelogger_> rgreening is taking care of the firefox issues
[14:00]  * ScottK high fives apachelogger_.
[14:00] <apachelogger_> nixternal is the docs dood
[14:00] <jjesse> so i am
[14:00] <apachelogger_> jjesse: exactly
[14:00] <apachelogger_> jjesse: just that you are not as busy with rpm :P
[14:00] <larsivi__> Riddell: only thing potentially difficult about using kbabel/lokalize is the configuration - you would need a rather exceptional webapp to be able to beat translating with it
[14:00] <jjesse> :)
[14:01] <apachelogger_> that is why I think you should become rosetta expert
[14:01] <apachelogger_> unless you don't want to
[14:01] <larsivi__> Riddell: so the easy solution would be to make it easy to configure those tools
[14:01] <jjesse> i would prefer to not
[14:01] <jjesse> i going to beating the drum of kubuntu training with the trainin people there
[14:01] <ScottK> apachelogger_: I think it'd be more credible if the issue were driven by someone who isn't a native English speaker.
[14:02] <apachelogger_> who is going to UDS and not native?
[14:02] <Riddell> I don't think the rosetta developers will be at UDS
[14:02] <Riddell> we could probably do a phone call from there though
[14:02] <apachelogger_> *nod*
[14:02] <smarter> stupid connection, and stupid quassel which takes 20 minutes to see that I'm deconnect and to reconnect :/
[14:03] <apachelogger_> ScottK: how about inviting someone from KDE l10n?
[14:03] <smarter> *deconnected
[14:03] <apachelogger_> smarter: get a server
[14:03] <smarter> apachelogger: give me one :p
[14:04] <apachelogger_> ScottK: considering they use lokalize (which is awesome) it might be easier to find the shortcomings of rosetta
[14:04] <apachelogger_> smarter: join the ubuntu server team and ask canonical for one :P
[14:05] <ScottK> Riddell: My view is that (at least in theory) (K)Ubuntu is a customer of LP/Rosetta and so if a consensus can form at UDS about what Rosetta needs to do better, that's useful.
[14:06] <ScottK> At a minimum I'd suggest "Don't output translations worse than what we get from upstream" as a start.
[14:07] <Riddell> ScottK: the tricky part is working out just why that happens
[14:08] <apachelogger_> improve QA, improve team communication, improve inter-team communication, get faster machines to get strings imported faster, don't allow changing of upstream imported strings without uberstrong QA, don't prefer LP translations over upstream translations
[14:08] <larsivi__> I will try to get a statement from the nn team for you
[14:08] <Riddell> the last two are different attitudes to the same thing
[14:09] <apachelogger_> Riddell: there might be times when we actually need to change upstream strings
[14:09] <apachelogger_> like when upstream contains a typo
[14:09] <Riddell> apachelogger_: right, so your last one is wrong
[14:09] <Riddell> the rest is all good
[14:09] <apachelogger_> Riddell: I mean when importing
[14:10] <apachelogger_> the LP change should last as long as the string didn't get changed upstream
[14:10]  * smarter would add "send all the strings changed upstream"
[14:10] <claydoh> can we nuke kubuntu-users list and start over, pretty please?
[14:10] <apachelogger_> +1 on send upstream
[14:10] <apachelogger_> larsivi__: I would like to hear from every team actually
[14:10] <smarter> (they would laugh at us if we did that with the current states of thing :P)
[14:11] <larsivi__> Riddell: I believe LP strings being preferred is considered one of the main problems
[14:11] <apachelogger_> claydoh: how so?
[14:11] <Riddell> larsivi__: yes I agree
[14:11] <Riddell> I was just nit-picking apachelogger_'s list, really it's all good :)
[14:11] <larsivi__> ok :)
[14:12] <jjesse> claydoh: +1 from me on nuking that list :)
[14:12] <claydoh> apachelogger_: sorry just frustrated
[14:12] <claydoh> I asked for some nasty bickering and flame-fanning to end, and got told off
[14:12] <jjesse> lool
[14:13] <jjesse> i love the i hate dolphin i love konqueror posts
[14:13] <claydoh> its basically a bitch session for about 5-6 people
[14:13] <claydoh> with little or no user support
[14:13] <claydoh> jjesse: now krusader is in there
[14:13] <jjesse> awesome
[14:13] <Riddell> jjesse: massochist :)
[14:14] <apachelogger_> claydoh: get these people banned?
[14:14] <claydoh> now wouldn't that bring on the fire
[14:14] <claydoh> I don't know
[14:14] <Riddell> I have blocked threads in the past
[14:15] <apachelogger_> IMHO it makes very much sense to do that
[14:15] <JontheEchidna> dolphin -> my big fat greek wedding
[14:15] <JontheEchidna> lulz
[14:16] <claydoh> apachelogger_: banning would get the post count down to about 5-6 a day :)
[14:17] <apachelogger_> claydoh: that is more readable and more supportable, isn't it? ;-)
[14:17] <claydoh> apachelogger_: yup :)
[14:18] <smarter> already ~250 messages for November, this is frightening
[14:18]  * ScottK loves Konqueror
[14:18] <claydoh> smarter: and if you actually read it, n ot much rrally going on
[14:18] <apachelogger_> Riddell, claydoh: maybe we should add it to the meeting agenda?
[14:18] <Riddell> apachelogger_: which?
[14:18] <apachelogger_> I imagine more people would use the list if it wasn't filled with crap
[14:19] <Riddell> oh -users, can do
[14:19] <claydoh> I agree, but how to get rid of the crap without causing negative backlash
[14:19] <ScottK> Riddell: I agree it's tricky, but it needs to be done.  Translations are killing us and given providing (K)Ubuntu is each person's own language is a core Ubuntu value, translations is an area we should just totally rock in.
[14:19]  * ScottK goes off to vote.
[14:20] <jjesse> ScottK: good luck my line was 2 hours
[14:21] <apachelogger_> claydoh: if the pople who contribute to the current disucssion don't understand that the topics are pointless and prevent sensible support then I really don't care at all
[14:21] <jjesse> the frustrating part is that everyone who complains about
[14:21] <apachelogger_> the can get a launchpad team and mailing list kubuntu-endless-discussion
[14:21] <jjesse> decisions doesnt take part of them inthe -devel mailing list
[14:23] <apachelogger_> http://archives.free.net.ph/list/kubuntu-users.en.html
[14:23] <apachelogger_> 90 posts in the konqueror vs. dolphin thread
[14:23] <claydoh> jjesse: I have suggested so, and not one of the big mouths ever did
[14:23] <seele> apachelogger_: there is a meeting?
[14:23] <apachelogger_> seele: not yet scheduled
[14:23] <claydoh> apachelogger_: and most a flame fest at the beginning
[14:23] <jjesse> claydoh: i did once as well and got a very nasty response
[14:24] <apachelogger_> seele: only have bzr and membership for arby on the agenda
[14:24] <apachelogger_> though I think the bzr discussion probably is enought to get an own meeting
[14:24] <seele> apachelogger_: will it be our last meeting before UDS or will we have another?
[14:24] <seele> there are Jaunty topics to talk about
[14:25] <apachelogger_> should be added to the agenda then ;-)
[14:25] <apachelogger_> seele: when is UDS?
[14:25] <Riddell> a month away yet
[14:26] <apachelogger_> should be enough time for 2 meetings I guess
[14:26] <seele> apachelogger_: beginning of december
[14:27] <Riddell> I'm away from 22nd Nov
[14:27] <apachelogger_> ok, one it is
[14:27] <claydoh> on a good note, I should get my kubuntu bumper sticker today :)
[14:27] <apachelogger_> also, I think we should do a meeting once everyone is back from UDS
[14:27] <Riddell> claydoh: where's that from?
[14:27] <claydoh> cafe press
[14:27] <claydoh> it was quickest
[14:28]  * apachelogger_ has a helix bumper sticker :P
[14:29] <claydoh> I am using this laptop at a flyball tourney to keep scores, etc
[14:29] <claydoh> so I figure i'd advertise
[14:29] <claydoh> tho I have to run the access database thingy in virtualbox :(
[14:30] <apachelogger_> vbox is Qt and floss, nothing bad about it ;-)
[14:30] <claydoh> but win2k sux
[14:30] <claydoh>  but I do actually have a license for it
[14:31] <jdong> would you guy object to target KTorrent 3.1.4 at intrepid-updates?
[14:31] <jdong> it's a "bugfix release", no UI changes, no rdepends
[14:31] <jdong> at least from what I can tell
[14:31] <jdong> tracking upstream regressions from ktorrent is such a pain
[14:32] <apachelogger_> jdong: I considered this an option
[14:32] <jdong> apachelogger_: I think it's an appropriate option
[14:33] <apachelogger_> plus KTorrent upstream does usually not cause further issues in bufix release
[14:33] <apachelogger_> unlike amarok :P
[14:33] <jdong> right
[14:34] <apachelogger_> jdong: I suggest mailing kubuntu-devel
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> doing so would also fix bug 116905
[14:34] <apachelogger_> that reminds me
[14:34] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna: did you file a bug report at freedesktop.org yet?
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> <.<
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> >.>
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> ^_^
[14:34]  * JontheEchidna runs
[14:34] <apachelogger_> oh dear
[14:35] <apachelogger_> JontheEchidna: do you have time to do that now?
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> I'll do it right now
[14:35] <apachelogger_> ok, thanx
[14:35]  * apachelogger_ hands JontheEchidna and jdong each a cookie and a glass of milk
[14:36] <seele> apachelogger_: the meeting will have to be in the next week or so before the holiday starts
[14:39] <apachelogger_> seele: I will setup a doodle survey today or tomorrow, any wishes about the time? ;-)
[14:41] <seele> no.. whenever
[14:42] <seele> eek, X doesn't like using an HD TV.  The fonts look like they are set to 6pt
[14:42] <smarter> dpi problem
[14:46] <ScottK> jjesse: No line. \o/
[14:46] <seele> huh.. makes installing kubuntu kindof hard
[14:47] <apachelogger_> KDE needs new release scripts
[14:47] <apachelogger_> mine is so much more reliable :P
[14:48] <larsivi> ScottK: you have separate lines for the two parties and you voted republican? ;P
[14:49] <ScottK> larsivi: No.  Only one line.
[14:49] <ScottK> Since I work from home I could hit that magic quiet spot between people who vote before they go to work and the ones that do it on their lunch break.
[14:49] <larsivi> heh - election day is national day off here
[14:50] <larsivi> (for those who can)
[14:50] <ScottK> Here they just close the schools since those are generally used as polling places.
[14:50] <ScottK> So I have to work, but have all the kids here too.
[14:51] <ScottK> Riddell: I have to correct what I said yesterday.  The ballot just had the Presidential candidate I was voting for, not the electors.  I must have been thinking of the primary election ballot where you vote for delegates to the party convention that are committed to a particular candidate.
[14:51] <apachelogger_> here election day is sunday, on sunday only very very very limited work permissions are issued, so essentially one would assume every austrian would have time to give his/her vote ;-)
[14:52] <nixternal> apachelogger_: bah you and RPMs dude! :)
[14:52] <nixternal> soon it will be .debs here baby!!!
[14:52] <nixternal> after UDS
[14:52] <apachelogger_> oh noes
[14:52] <apachelogger_> <-- pretty good RPM haxx0r
[14:53] <nixternal> come work for me!
[14:53] <nixternal> I am looking for an RPM hax0r and a hardware dude
[14:54] <apachelogger_> first I have to finish a finance analysis application
[14:54] <Riddell> ScottK: that sounds like the electoral college people are candidate supporters picked from the party which solves another minor mystery
[14:54] <apachelogger_> getting that to pull data from the accounting software is going to be fun
[14:54]  * apachelogger_ doesn't even know what database that software uses
[14:54] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes.
[14:54] <nixternal> apachelogger_: finance analysis is easy...I did that stuff my undergrad years...I am past that in my quest for my MBA now
[14:55]  * nixternal is going to the Obama rally tonight!!!
[14:55] <bddebian> Eeks
[14:55] <ScottK> nixternal: Good luck.  I hope you get what you're after.
[14:55] <bddebian> apachelogger_: Which package?
[14:55] <ScottK> bddebian: He's going to try and meet girls.
[14:55] <bddebian> heh
[14:55] <nixternal> ScottK: it is a part of history win or lose, and in any situation, I can say I was there :)
[14:56] <apachelogger_> nixternal: well, the use case is focused on insolvency preventation ... a lot of special crap to take care of
[14:56]  * nixternal hopes for the second, but it will be tough
[14:56] <apachelogger_> but otherwise good exercise
[14:56] <nixternal> hahaha, insolvency prevention sucks!
[14:56] <apachelogger_> bddebian: package?
[14:56] <Riddell> nixternal: that's going to be a really bad party if he loses :)
[14:56] <apachelogger_> nixternal: insolvency sucks :P
[14:56] <nixternal> just let the company go under, and have the government bail you out...that is how you do insolvency prevention in the US :P
[14:56] <bddebian> apachelogger_: Which accounting software?
[14:56] <nixternal> Riddell: ya, if he loses, I shall leave early to avoid any potential rioting
[14:57] <ScottK> nixternal: Only if you're a big company that has $$$ for campaign contributions.
[14:57] <bddebian> heh
[14:57] <nixternal> I contributed money to a campaign
[14:57] <apachelogger_> bddebian: http://www.bmd.at/
[14:57]  * nixternal is waiting for ever on the AspectJ updates in Eclipse
[14:58] <apachelogger_> nixternal: if you do that willingly you will pretty much end up in jail :P
[14:58] <nixternal> apachelogger_: not in the US :P
[14:59] <apachelogger_> nixternal: plus the austrian government would only pay primary claims ... i.e. basically only salary
[15:00] <apachelogger_> in fact it's not even the government, it's a special fund controlled by the business administration
[15:01] <bddebian> apachelogger_: Oh, can't help you there, no sprechen ze deutch (I'm sure I butchered the hell out of that spelling) :)
[15:02] <apachelogger_> could have been worse :P
[15:02] <Riddell> apachelogger_: parties can't be privately funded?
[15:04] <Riddell> nixternal: are you just going to troll at this ralley?  I can't help but suspect you're going to take a large banner saying "socialist" on it :)
[15:04] <jjesse> lol i bet
[15:04] <jjesse> he's going with his mccain sign
[15:04] <apachelogger_> sure, private as in private, a company would actually have to pay tax for the funding
[15:04] <Riddell> apachelogger_: what would nixternal end up in jail for?
[15:05] <jjesse> that would be super funny though if mccain somehow won after the big party obama has planned
[15:05] <Riddell> jjesse: you think mccain doesn't also have a big party planned?
[15:05] <apachelogger_> Riddell: letting a company go down the drain willingly
[15:05] <apachelogger_> assuming he is in the board of course
[15:05] <jjesse> Riddell: but how much money did it cost him?  i've read the obama party is costing the city of chicago 2 million dollars at least
[15:06] <apachelogger_> Riddell: btw, do you really think mccain could do fancy partying... considering his age and all ;-)
[15:07] <ScottK> apachelogger_: If you've read about his younger days, he's clearly capable of fancy partying.
[15:07] <jjesse> ok i'm done talking politics today :)
[15:07] <Riddell> jjesse: oh but there's the Glenrothese by-election on Thursday, everyone will be watching that!
[15:08] <apachelogger_> ScottK: well, in his younger days maybe :P
[15:08] <apachelogger_> that said, we still didn't do an IRC release party
[15:09] <Riddell> DJ Harald didn't organise one for us :)
[15:10] <jjesse> Riddell: glenrothese by-election?  is that an election for local people in glenrothese?
[15:11] <Riddell> jjesse: aye, their MP died, so now the nationalists are going to try and double their vote and throw out Labour
[15:12] <jjesse> Riddell: interesting is labour the "conservative" party or is that nationalist??
[15:12] <Riddell> the conservative party are the conservative party, they don't really exist in Scotland
[15:13] <jjesse> ah i know next to nothing about scotland politics
[15:13] <Riddell> labour are the UK government and the nationalists are the Scottish government, so it's the first case of a battle between two governments
[15:13] <jjesse> ah i understand now
[15:13] <jjesse> i'll vote nationalist then :)
[15:14] <Riddell> win for independence! :)
[15:18] <jjesse> the dow is up early this morning
[15:20] <Riddell> jdong: your kmix patch looks good, I'll get that included in the 4.1.3 update
[15:20] <apachelogger_> Riddell: it already is
[15:21] <Riddell> apachelogger_: not according to what I downloaded from batcave
[15:21] <jdong> Riddell: very awesome :)
[15:21] <apachelogger_> Riddell: maybe I didn't upload the changes yet
[15:22] <apachelogger_> Riddell: I also need to ensure the tarballs are up-to-date
[15:22] <Riddell> apachelogger_: kdegraphics has changed
[15:22] <jdong> Riddell: while I have you here, do you know why Qt4 can't capture the XF86MonBrightness{Up,Down} key events? :)
[15:23] <Riddell> jdong: I think there a place in Qt that defines the keys, and if they're not defined it won't see them
[15:23] <Riddell> which sucks
[15:23] <jdong> Riddell: yeah :( they seem to be somewhat standardized brightness switching keys
[15:23] <jdong> and our k-d-s xmodmap hack breaks those keys in GNOME
[15:23] <jdong> Riddell: would it break anything in Qt if for the next release cycle we add those keysyms?
[15:25] <Riddell> jdong: shouldn't do if we patch it carefully enough
[15:27] <jdong> Riddell: okay; I think that would be good to have for Kubuntu laptop users; better than the Launch4/Launch5 hackery that we do currently :)
[15:27] <Riddell> yep
[15:28] <jdong> oh yeah, guidance doesn't pad minutes :)
[15:28] <jdong> i.e. 3: 5h remaining
[15:30] <ScottK> jdong: Don't sweat Guidance for Jaunty.  We've already planned it's demise.  The only real question is "Exile to Universe" or "Kill it dead, dead, dead."
[15:30] <jdong> ScottK: cool :)
[15:31] <jdong> ScottK: do we want a one-liner patch to correctly pad minutes?
[15:32] <ScottK> jdong: I'd say it's not SRU material, but we should hang on to it if we're doing an SRU for some other reason.
[15:32] <jdong> ok
[15:33] <jdong> ScottK: is KDE somehow inhibiting DPMS? my screen(s) don't go to sleep despite xset q showing correct DPMS timeouts
[15:35] <ScottK> Dunno.
[15:35]  * ScottK looks around for someone who knows ...
[15:36] <Riddell> not that I know of
[15:36] <apachelogger_> systemsettings -> display -> power control maybe?
[15:36] <jdong> apachelogger_: I have em set
[15:37] <jdong> and I can confirm they are written to xset dpms
[15:37] <jdong> and I can confirm that xset dpms force {off, standby} put the display to sleep
[15:37] <jdong> but I can't confirm that leaving the computer alone for 10 minutes results in a sleeping monitor
[15:37] <apachelogger_> maybe guidance-power-manager interferes
[15:38] <jdong> oh there we go
[15:38] <apachelogger_> that systemsettings module and g-p-m are the only things messing with that kind of stuff
[15:38] <jdong> it wakes right bac up
[15:38] <jdong> killing guidance fixes it
[15:39] <apachelogger_> \o/
[15:39] <apachelogger_> jdong: install powerdevil and use the battery plasmoid
[15:39] <jdong> the screen just flickers off and on with guidance running
[15:39] <apachelogger_> much more reliable than guidance
[15:39] <ScottK> jdong: That'd be SRU worthy.
[15:40] <ScottK> apachelogger_: If you're running powerdevil, do you have suspend/hibernate U/I?
[15:40] <apachelogger_> ScottK: kickoff
[15:41] <ScottK> apachelogger_: OK.  I tried it and couldn't find it.  I guess I'll have to look again.
[15:41] <apachelogger_> ScottK: maybe HAL doesn't detect the capabilities properly
[15:41] <apachelogger_> usually you would get the options in the leave tab
[15:42] <apachelogger_> http://aplg.kollide.net/images/osiris/snapshot184.png
[15:42] <ScottK> Maybe I didn't kill off Guidance enough.
[15:42] <apachelogger_> ScottK: that feature is unrelated to either of them
[15:42] <apachelogger_> it's implemented in kickoff directly
[15:42] <ScottK> apachelogger_: OK.  I'm using the classic kicker and didn't see it.  I'll try again.
[15:43] <jdong> I think it's probably the lid closed stufff
[15:43] <apachelogger_> ScottK: quite possible that you can't invoke it from the classic menu
[15:44] <ScottK> apachelogger_: That'd be a problem then.
[15:44] <apachelogger_> yeah
[15:45] <apachelogger_> I guess one could write a simple plasmoid though, should just be a matter of invoking the hibernation in powerdevil
[15:46]  * apachelogger_ better gets going, or he'll miss the train
[15:50] <jdong> hmm it's not actually guidance :(
[15:50] <ScottK> apachelogger_: What I see is http://kitterman.com/kubuntu/
[16:11] <vorian> jdong: you and that darn highway patrol
[16:12] <jdong> :)
[16:12] <jdong> I have a new setup in the savings account for when I go back home :)
[16:12] <vorian> haha
[16:12] <jdong> and I'm going to test it out in your ticket pit
[16:12] <vorian> good luck
[16:13] <jdong> :)
[16:13] <vorian> you could just apply for a bailout
[16:13] <vorian> 50 for the tiket, on 1.2 million for stress
[16:16] <Riddell> seele: desktop meetings seem to have moved to 16:00UTC in #ubuntu-desktop if you care
[16:18] <Riddell> doods, who was looking into bug 290695 ?
[16:20] <Riddell> "Why do we call Backports 'Unsupported Updates' in Adept?"  ScottK: that's software-properties
[16:21] <Riddell> seems like a fair description, although confusing for people who are looking for "backports"
[16:28] <ScottK> Riddell: OK.  Well since all the online docs talk about Backports, that's what we tell users when we discuss it with them, and that's what it's called in sources.list, I think it's a confusing situation.
[16:29] <Riddell> poke glatzor
[16:29] <ScottK> OK.
[16:29] <ScottK> --> TODO
[16:48] <seele> Riddell: ah, i wrote down the new time but i didnt know the channel changed
[16:49] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: do you know if anyone looked into bug 290695 ?
[16:49] <seele> i gues it's over now
[16:49] <Riddell> yep
[16:49] <seele> stupid daylight time savings
[16:49] <seele> didnt matter, i was out waiting in lines
[16:50] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: I took a quick look but I didn't find a way to fix it
[16:50] <Riddell> seele: voting?
[16:51] <seele> Riddell: yep
[16:51] <seele> wait wasnt too bad, about an hour
[16:52] <Riddell> seele: who did you vote for?
[16:52] <seele> Riddell: Obama of course!
[16:54] <Riddell> seele: well, we seem to have a surprisingly mccained channel here
[16:55] <jjesse> need to go vote after i hang up from this support call
[16:55] <Riddell> personally I wouldn't vote for anyone named after a type of microwave chips but I guess that's cultural :)
[16:55] <Riddell> jjesse: you IRC during support calls?
[16:56] <jjesse> all the time
[16:56] <jjesse> i IRC while i wait for support to take me off hold
[16:56] <jjesse> i dont answer support calls i call support myself
[16:57] <seele> microwave chips?
[16:57] <seele> Riddell: ew, potatoes in the microwave are gross
[17:01] <smarter> Riddell: haha :)
[17:02] <apachelogger> Hobbsee: btw, catching the kdelibs tarball issue would have required an uberprecise review before sponsoring
[17:03] <apachelogger> if it weren't for the ABI breakage we probably wouldn't have noticed it all that quick
[17:04] <smarter> a diff is not so hard to do, is it? :P
[17:06] <Riddell> seele: would you vote for these?  http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=mccain+micro+chips :)
[17:06] <apachelogger> always wanted to intimidate smater :D
[17:06] <apachelogger> smarter: you as MOTU, do you alaways run diffs against the tarballs?
[17:07] <smarter> nop, but your batscripts do that ;)
[17:07] <apachelogger> now, they didn't back then
[17:09] <seele> guns and furry animals?
[17:09]  * seele gives Riddell a strange look
[17:32] <Riddell> jdong: ok to put 4.1.3 into -backports?
[17:33] <Riddell> nixternal: hmm, my login to fridge seems to have disappeared
[17:33] <Riddell> nixternal: blizzz had a story, fancy tidying it up and publishing on fridge for him?
[17:34] <blizzz> that would be great indeed :)
[17:40] <Riddell> blizzz: is there a page which explains this?
[17:40] <jdong> Riddell: no objections from me :) yay KDE4!
[17:42] <blizzz> Riddell: not really, it is a translation of our german announcement which is the same concerning the content
[17:42] <blizzz> however, you can always ask me
[17:43] <blizzz> should be the same as here http://www.kubuntu-de.org/english/limber-up-the-wiki-for-kubuntu-8-10-intrepid-ibex-and-kde-4
[17:44] <nixternal> I won't be able to do the Fridge stuff until tomorrow at the earliest
[17:44] <nixternal> Riddell: ^^
[17:44] <nixternal> at work now and then Obama rally later
[17:45] <Riddell> ack
[17:45] <blizzz> nixternal: tomorrow is fine
[17:55] <seele> nixternal: chago is going to be rocking tonight!
[17:55]  * seele does the obama dance
[17:56] <seele> Gobama! Gobama!
[17:56] <nixternal> seele: that it is
[17:56] <nixternal> and I will be partying wtih them, though I could care less who wins
[18:08] <apachelogger> jdong: btw, how much is becoming backporter going to cost?
[18:08] <Riddell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdeptHowto needs an update
[18:09]  * apachelogger pokes claydoh
[18:13]  * claydoh pokes a back with his win2k
[18:13] <jdong> apachelogger: not much at all :)
[18:13] <jdong> apachelogger: you want to be one? :)
[18:14] <apachelogger> jdong: yes :)
[18:14] <apachelogger> claydoh: wanna update the adept how to?
[18:15]  * Riddell out for an hour or three
[18:15] <jdong> apachelogger: we should talk after I finish eating, but I think you'd be great for the team :)
[18:15] <claydoh> um sure, oce I re enter all this data that ms access didn't save :(
[18:15] <rgreening> ScottK: you want to help me with something, seeing you have an in in the server realm...
[18:16] <apachelogger> \o/
[18:16] <claydoh> gotta quick url apachelogger ?
[18:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: above my poke
[18:17] <apachelogger> claydoh: ^
[18:17] <rgreening> ScottK: I have a requirement for tacacs+ server not in the repos. I'll prob package it myself. I'll need a motu to look at it if you are able.
[18:18] <smarter> rgreening: REVU?
[18:18] <rgreening> yeah. going ot try my hand at packaging from scrath :)
[18:18] <apachelogger> rgreening: smarter is a MOTU and needs review practise ;-)
[18:18] <smarter> :P
[18:19] <rgreening> all right. smarter, help me with the correct process then.
[18:19] <smarter> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU should help you
[18:19] <apachelogger> smarter: seriously, good reviewing is more difficult than one might think
[18:20] <smarter> probably, and it's time-consuming(if you want to see if the thing actually build)
[18:20] <smarter> it would be handy if revu automatically built the packages :)
[18:21] <smarter> rgreening: and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete shall become your bible :p
[18:21] <rgreening> we need a Bat-REVU
[18:21] <smarter> why?
[18:21] <smarter> revu is good as it is
[18:21] <smarter> let's keep batstuff limited
[18:21] <rgreening> Bat-REVU would automate the shiz out of it
[18:21] <smarter> you don't have to do a lot of things to publish on revu
[18:22] <smarter> just register, wait or poke an admin, and dput revu packages_source.changes
[18:22] <apachelogger> smarter: we had that once
[18:22] <rgreening> k. thanks smarter.
[18:22] <smarter> apachelogger: building packages for revu?
[18:22]  * rgreening hunts down the tacacs source...
[18:22] <smarter> rgreening: but just RTFW :P
[18:22] <apachelogger> yes
[18:23] <smarter> and why did it get removed?
[18:23] <apachelogger> smarter: raphink wrote the revu-report script for that purpose
[18:23] <apachelogger> smarter: I think it ate too much resource
[18:23] <smarter> was this before the PPAs existed?
[18:24] <apachelogger> yes, long time ago
[18:24] <smarter> would be worth reimplementing it with a ppa
[18:24] <apachelogger> when I was only using kubuntu part time and raphink was still around and the ubuntu prophet claimed to like KDE :P
[18:24] <smarter> ^^'
[18:25] <apachelogger> smarter: I think the build pool shrunk again
[18:25] <apachelogger> so that might be difficult to do without blocking other builds
[18:25] <smarter> they could get really low priority
[18:26] <apachelogger> they still would get to build at some point
[18:26] <apachelogger> and hold up other builds
[18:28] <smarter> hmm
[18:43] <NCommander> hey apachelogger
[18:44] <rgreening> smarter: libauthen-tacacsplus-perl is for use with tacacs but no tacacs package exists to use it with. how stunned is stat
[18:44] <rgreening> s/stat/that
[18:44] <apachelogger> NCommander: hola, are you motu yet
[18:44] <NCommander> apachelogger, not yet
[18:44]  * NCommander is still waiting on his final +1
[18:45] <rgreening> smarter: nm. it connects to a (possible) external tacacs server. so no requirement for a local one.. still..
[18:45]  * NCommander is currently working on resolving the evil fontconfig bug in cairo
[19:15] <rgreening> apachelogger: In the old konqueror for kde 3.5, I believe there was a google search on the about page. Do you know where I can easily get the patch for that? I wanted to try and make one for konqueror 4
[19:17] <apachelogger> rgreening: lp/ubuntu/+source/kdebase I guess
[19:18] <apachelogger> rgreening: I would appreciate if you would do that change upstream though
[19:20] <rgreening> apachelogger: meaning KDE? or Debian?
[19:20] <apachelogger> rgreening: KDE :P
[19:20] <rgreening> ok, what process should I follow?
[19:22] <apachelogger> rgreening: get the patch, make it work and look sexy with KDE 4, propose the patch to kde-devel@kde.org
[19:22] <apachelogger> or maybe even kde-core-devel@kde.org
[19:22] <apachelogger> considering the last is actually the right address ;-)
[19:23] <rgreening> k
[19:45] <rgreening> apachelogger: I was doing this for 4.1, I'm guessing KDE folks will want a 4.2 ver...
[19:47] <apachelogger> rgreening: for 4.1?
[19:51] <rgreening> Riddell asked about it, so I was going to get into updates for Intrepid first
[19:51] <rgreening> apachelogger: ^
[19:52]  * apachelogger isn't a fan of adding features in SRUs
[19:52] <apachelogger> also it's against policy IIRC
[19:53] <rgreening> apachelogger:  I'm going to play with it and see if I can make a patch. After, I'll fire it off to you and Riddell and we can figure out what to do with it if anything :)
[19:54] <apachelogger> rgreening: I would target it for 4.2/9.04
[19:55] <rgreening> I'll look into figuring out how to get 4.2 later...
[20:14] <naee> are usb drives not mounting by default by design or a bug?
[21:14] <Sime> koaka seems to have disappeared in the transition to intrepid.
[21:30] <jussi01> Sime: you mean kooka?
[21:31] <Sime> either way I can't find it and install it... :-/
[21:32] <jussi01> !info skanlite | Sime
[21:32] <Sime> mmm never heard of that one
[21:32] <Sime> thanks
[21:33] <jussi01> Sime: you should use #kubuntu for support though :)
[21:33] <JontheEchidna> kooka was in kdegraphics in kde3 iirc
[21:34] <jussi01> JontheEchidna: just the guy I wanted to see - got a moment for a PM?
[21:34] <JontheEchidna> sure
[22:19] <jpds> claydoh!
[22:20] <jpds> claydoh: Did you get my email on the ubuntu maine mailing list password?
[22:20] <claydoh> jpds: !!
[22:20] <claydoh> no
[22:20] <claydoh> or I lost or spamfiltered it
[22:21] <claydoh> how long back?
[22:22] <jpds> claydoh: Ages. It's to do with https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=1068 (user/pass: ubuntu).
[22:22]  * jpds headdesk - just saw your reply to it.
[22:23] <claydoh> ahh then it sitting om my dead system. I *just* now got a drive encloseure so I can get my old data back
[22:24] <jpds> claydoh: I see ticket #2806 is on the same topic, should I merge them together?
[22:25] <claydoh> ahh yes jpds merge is good
[22:26] <claydoh> no traffic other than spam on that list anyway
[22:26] <claydoh> us Mainers are too far separated to get together
[22:27] <jpds> claydoh: Done. I suggest trying to advertise the ticket between 9-17 UK time in #canonical-sysadmin to get them working on it.
[22:27] <claydoh> ok, and thanks jpds !
[22:27] <jpds> No problem.
[22:30]  * jpds goes off to bed. Night all.
[22:53] <KdeSudoNeedsRoot> hey. stop arguing about KdeSudo :)
[22:53] <KdeSudoNeedsRoot> cuz I needs it
[22:54] <KdeSudoNeedsRoot> doh! wrng chan