| kwak | hi anyone awake. im using hardy and some of my clients are not receiving DHCP response from the server. | 04:00 |
|---|---|---|
| kwak | i have 25 client, so far i have 7 thin clients which booted | 04:00 |
| neil_d | With LTSP and local apps. is there any operation difference between local and remote apps? Do both display on the same screen ? | 12:39 |
| stgraber | neil_d: yes they do, though localapps may require some tweaking (especially the ones relying on dbus/gconf) | 13:02 |
| neil_d | stgraber: ok, is there a step by step guide on how to setup local apps. especially firefox ? | 13:10 |
| neil_d | stgraber: I haven't found one yet. | 13:10 |
| stgraber | neil_d: not really, localapps are pretty new and not yet really well integrated | 13:24 |
| stgraber | neil_d: you'll need firefox (without ubufox) installed in the chroot and a launcher on the application server to trigger it | 13:25 |
| stgraber | (sorry, can't help much, I'm in a meeting :)) | 13:25 |
| neil_d | stgraber: ok thanks for the info. | 13:25 |
| LaserJock | hi all | 17:22 |
| stgraber | hi LaserJock | 17:22 |
| highvoltage | hi | 17:23 |
| LaserJock | you guys read over the agenda yet? | 17:23 |
| stgraber | sort of, I'm following the QA meeting at the same time :) | 17:23 |
| stgraber | oh, and having lunch too | 17:24 |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: ah, is it in here? | 17:24 |
| LaserJock | lol | 17:24 |
| LaserJock | highvoltage: the meeting? no, it's supposed to be in #ubuntu-meeting in 36 min | 17:24 |
| highvoltage | ah | 17:24 |
| LaserJock | just wanted to get the creative juices flowing | 17:24 |
| highvoltage | just looking over the agenda now trying to do the same thing | 17:27 |
| LaserJock | ok, Edubuntu meeting in 2 minutes | 17:58 |
| LaserJock | Edubuntu meeting is right now in #ubuntu-meeting | 18:02 |
| juliux | ogra: do you know somebody else? http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/LocoTeam/UbuntuMember | 18:49 |
| ogra | not on first look | 18:50 |
| ogra | i'll ping you if someone strikes me | 18:50 |
| juliux | ogra: thxs | 19:28 |
| highvoltage | and thanks to LaserJock for organising that much needed meeting | 19:51 |
| Lns | Yes, thank you LaserJock | 19:51 |
| nubae | yups | 19:52 |
| LaserJock | no problem | 19:53 |
| LaserJock | I'm just glad some people showed up | 19:53 |
| Lns | Is there anyone here interested in creating a YouTube campaign for Edubuntu and/or LTSP for demonstration purposes? | 19:54 |
| * nubae nominates Lns | 19:54 | |
| highvoltage | LaserJock: when you've got a draft together of the plan (I'll do my best to help there), then we should blog the next meeting so that it gets some more exposure | 19:54 |
| Lns | lol thx nubae | 19:54 |
| highvoltage | Lns: I'd like doing some technical ones. Like how to set up LTSP, etc. | 19:55 |
| LaserJock | I think we have a wiki spot for those, one sec | 19:55 |
| highvoltage | it could also be a directory on http://video.ubuntu.com | 19:55 |
| Lns | oh wow | 19:55 |
| Lns | I never knew of that link | 19:56 |
| nubae | what would be a good edu video is using sabayon and pessulus to make profiles | 19:56 |
| LaserJock | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EdubuntuVideoIntroduction is something to look at | 19:56 |
| highvoltage | Lns: there's also a youtube channel that contains all those videos (and more) relating to ubuntu | 19:56 |
| Lns | nubae: are those tools stable yet? | 19:56 |
| nubae | the documentation on it is very very minimal | 19:56 |
| nubae | no, but its ok to create the profiles with | 19:56 |
| LaserJock | sabayon and pessulus have been around for quite a while | 19:56 |
| nubae | its not running after the profiles are made | 19:56 |
| Lns | I don't think we should be spending time (yet) on something that's not stable enough to use on a day to day basis | 19:57 |
| LaserJock | but sabayon at least has suffered from Red Hat pulling it's people off | 19:57 |
| Lns | at least as far as demo videos | 19:57 |
| LaserJock | so it lacks developers | 19:57 |
| nubae | its necessary though, and it has no documentation | 19:57 |
| Lns | highvoltage: what's the yt channel url? | 19:57 |
| nubae | its such a powerful tool | 19:57 |
| Lns | nubae: I agree.. but for now I think we should focus from the ground up, get some videos demoing LTSP/Edubuntu in general, a very broad overview of benefits and use cases | 19:58 |
| LaserJock | I think sabayon/pessulus could be huge in Education | 19:58 |
| Lns | and get more specific from there | 19:58 |
| LaserJock | but they have to be rock solid to do it | 19:59 |
| LaserJock | and it's tricky business, some of the stuff seems pretty hackish | 19:59 |
| Lns | I agree... it needs more work | 19:59 |
| Lns | I've never been able to use it reliably | 19:59 |
| LaserJock | *but* if we can funnel interested parties their way and help then thats a win for everybody | 19:59 |
| highvoltage | Lns: http://www.youtube.com/ubuntudevelopers | 20:00 |
| highvoltage | Lns: please excuse the colour scheme :) | 20:00 |
| Lns | highvoltage: ah, yes i'm subbed to that chan | 20:00 |
| Lns | I think Edubuntu and/or LTSP should get its own YT channel though | 20:00 |
| Lns | and maybe link to the others through friends/subscribers | 20:00 |
| Lns | get a whole "network" of Ubuntu related YT channels | 20:00 |
| highvoltage | Lns: are you on IRC often? I'd love to discuss this, but I'm having trouble keeping my eyes open | 20:01 |
| Lns | highvoltage: yep...almost always on #edubuntu, #ltsp | 20:01 |
| Lns | during the day anyway, PST | 20:01 |
| Lns | (it's noon here now) | 20:01 |
| highvoltage | cool. don't let me stop you though, I'm just going to get some sleep now | 20:02 |
| Lns | highvoltage: np. Have a good rest! | 20:02 |
| highvoltage | cool. goodnight Lns | 20:02 |
| Lns | night | 20:02 |
| LaserJock | one thing I wanted to kind of bring up in the meeting but didn't is the age scope of Edubuntu | 20:03 |
| LaserJock | the Edubuntu motto is "Linux for Young Human Beings" | 20:03 |
| LaserJock | but I've always pushed for getting into secondary/uni education | 20:04 |
| nubae | yeah | 20:04 |
| nubae | in fact... its more sugar that is for young human beings | 20:04 |
| Lns | LaserJock: So what's the current view on it? | 20:04 |
| nubae | and it will with time totally take over that niche | 20:04 |
| LaserJock | Lns: currently we mostly have stuff for younger people | 20:05 |
| * Lns thinks the term "Edubuntu" is best geared toward children ages 1-12 yrs | 20:05 | |
| nubae | should be Educational Linux for human beings | 20:05 |
| nubae | Lns: u mean the themes | 20:05 |
| Lns | nubae: themes and a lot of apps too such as gcompris | 20:06 |
| nubae | yeah true, lots of the apps are for kids | 20:06 |
| LaserJock | currently though, I think we ship most of the decent apps for kids | 20:06 |
| Lns | yes | 20:06 |
| LaserJock | but for instance, there are lots of secondary/uni apps we could ship | 20:06 |
| nubae | yep | 20:07 |
| nubae | some of it is... like the math stuff | 20:07 |
| nubae | language stuff | 20:07 |
| nubae | thats no longer for kids | 20:07 |
| LaserJock | right | 20:07 |
| Lns | Maybe the thing is, we need to really grind in, especially after the past couple years of confusion between Edubuntu, LTSP, etc.. is that Edubuntu is for a subset of children aged N to O | 20:07 |
| === ogra_ is now known as ogra | ||
| LaserJock | I'm a Chemist and a university educator | 20:07 |
| LaserJock | so I gravitate that way | 20:07 |
| nubae | so how about we make a matrix on the site | 20:08 |
| nubae | describe the software and what age groups its for | 20:08 |
| Lns | nubae: good idea | 20:08 |
| LaserJock | at one point I wanted to tie it all together | 20:08 |
| LaserJock | so you installed some metapackage | 20:08 |
| nubae | and links to the youtube videos ;-) | 20:08 |
| Lns | What about splitting packages for certain agegroups/use cases? | 20:08 |
| LaserJock | that installed age-appropriate packages *and* themes *and* menues | 20:08 |
| Lns | LaserJock: I think that's a great idea | 20:09 |
| LaserJock | it's a lot of overhead in terms of maintenance | 20:09 |
| nubae | yeah, edubuntu for me needs to be something easily grabable for the use case scenario I want | 20:09 |
| Lns | apt-get install edubuntu-ages-1to12 | 20:10 |
| nubae | right now doing apt-get install edubuntu-desktop is just not feasable for a whole school scenario | 20:10 |
| nubae | Lns: right | 20:10 |
| Lns | If we do that, I think a lot more devs will come into play for certain use cases | 20:10 |
| LaserJock | we, at one point, had groupings like young, elementary, secondary, university | 20:10 |
| Lns | they know what they want to work on | 20:10 |
| nubae | LaserJock: Im sure we lose users because they find the packages inappropriate for all levels | 20:10 |
| nubae | LaserJock: perfect, can we use that split again? | 20:11 |
| LaserJock | we never really accomplished it | 20:11 |
| nubae | maybe with elementary, middle, secondary and university | 20:11 |
| LaserJock | I mean, we've had different themes in the past | 20:11 |
| nubae | young is elementary | 20:11 |
| LaserJock | well, there is pre-school stuff | 20:12 |
| ogra | right it was only themes | 20:12 |
| Lns | nubae: well think about after-school clubhouse type setups, too. I work for a couple different Boys & Girls Clubs in California | 20:12 |
| ogra | i think the preseed option is stil in edubuntu-artwork | 20:12 |
| ogra | dpkg-reconfigure -pcritical edubuntu-artwork | 20:12 |
| nubae | the artwork is attractive to people | 20:12 |
| Lns | I think age groups might be the best way to categorize it, not "1st grade" "University" etc | 20:13 |
| LaserJock | well, on thing we have to consider is that different parts of the world have different terminology | 20:13 |
| Lns | exactly | 20:13 |
| LaserJock | generally elementary, secondary, university sort of work | 20:13 |
| LaserJock | but we can change the name to be whatever | 20:13 |
| nubae | yeah but uni, secondary, primary are pretty universal | 20:13 |
| nubae | at least those 3 groupings would already help a great deal | 20:14 |
| LaserJock | yeah, primary instead of elementary | 20:14 |
| LaserJock | *but* as I keep harping on, we gotta have people to maintain this stuff | 20:14 |
| LaserJock | we can easily get a real mess on our hands | 20:14 |
| Lns | I'm not familiar with package management at all (yet).. i might not be a good candidate for that | 20:15 |
| LaserJock | Lns: you can learn ;-) | 20:15 |
| Lns | although I can definitely give my opinion on it :) | 20:15 |
| nubae | yeah I'm working on MOTU | 20:15 |
| nubae | but damn thats a beast and a half | 20:15 |
| Lns | I can, but i might be better at youtube collaboration / exposure | 20:15 |
| nubae | I cant wrap my head around it yet | 20:15 |
| ogra | its trivial once you are over the hump | 20:15 |
| alkisg | I don't think bandwidth is a problem for most teachers, but menu editing (for all users) is. So if there was an easy way to modify the Education menu based on a user group (e.g. class A/B/C), or at least have 3 menus instead of the Education menu (again, Educational apps for class A/B/C) it would be easier for the students. So I propose no different packages, just menu editing. | 20:16 |
| nubae | ogra: where is the hump? | 20:16 |
| nubae | :-) | 20:16 |
| ogra | ahaead apparently :) | 20:16 |
| Lns | alkisg: did you look at edubuntu-menus ? | 20:16 |
| alkisg | Lns, no :) | 20:16 |
| Lns | alkisg: apt-cache show edubuntu-menus | 20:16 |
| Lns | it's not completely together yet but that's the start of what you're talking about | 20:16 |
| nubae | alkisg: yeah thats important for my use cases too | 20:17 |
| ogra | alkisg, bandwith is a huge prob in moust countres where edubuntu gets used | 20:17 |
| alkisg | ogra, one can download a DVD and make many copies for other teachers | 20:17 |
| ogra | edubuntu has many users in south america, africa asia | 20:17 |
| nubae | as is ease of use... if we had 3 groups that are easily installable, like apt-get edubuntu-primary | 20:17 |
| nubae | or edubuntu-uni | 20:17 |
| ogra | alkisg, ever downloaded a DVD over 56k dialup ? | 20:17 |
| nubae | that would be soooo easy and nice | 20:17 |
| ogra | alkisg, in a country where you dont devn find DVD readers (not to talk about writers) | 20:18 |
| ogra | *even | 20:18 |
| Lns | ogra: heh, what's that debian app for cases like that? Some dpkg app that could resume sessions and build an ISO or something over very unreliable connections | 20:18 |
| nubae | ogra: right, people forget the ease with which we get internet | 20:18 |
| ogra | right | 20:18 |
| nubae | I was in Nepal... we'd be lucky to have 2k per sec | 20:18 |
| ogra | the existing edubuntu users even rarely have connection | 20:19 |
| nubae | there was absolutely no way to download a cd | 20:19 |
| nubae | let alone a dvd | 20:19 |
| alkisg | ogra, I installed edubuntu in a school with 56k dialup. I never even bothered to update. Every time there was a distro update, I downloaded a DVD from my home and use this in school... | 20:19 |
| LaserJock | ogra: kinda going off of that, do you have any idea why shipit was dropped for Edubuntu? too much cost and not enough interest? | 20:19 |
| nubae | alkisg: what makes u think these users have internet at home? | 20:19 |
| ogra | LaserJock, the latter i think | 20:19 |
| LaserJock | ogra: k | 20:19 |
| alkisg | nubae, not the users, the central school administration | 20:19 |
| nubae | I can tell u that the only internet connection to remote locations is for email only, with no one having internet at home | 20:20 |
| nubae | ditto | 20:20 |
| ogra | LaserJock, though i think only after the CD split | 20:20 |
| nubae | in Nepal, only the main ISP had the bandwidth (1mb share for the entire country) to download stuff in the middle of the night | 20:20 |
| alkisg | nubae, e.g. in my town we have ~50 schools and a central ...administrator (I don't know how it's called in english) | 20:20 |
| nubae | its not a usable scenario | 20:20 |
| alkisg | nubae, shipit.ubuntu.com :) | 20:20 |
| nubae | right | 20:21 |
| ogra | alkisg, your country isnt in south america, asia or africa :) | 20:21 |
| Lns | I think Edubuntu is in a real identity crisis right now with the LTSP split. THUS it's a great time to redefine it on a fundamental level (such as what I think would be good w/different use-case packages/metapackages) | 20:21 |
| nubae | Lns: LaserJock realised this thus organised the meeting :-) | 20:21 |
| Lns | nubae: i know i know.. :) | 20:22 |
| Lns | but we never really came to a solid decision did we ? | 20:22 |
| nubae | yeah we did | 20:22 |
| LaserJock | well, we decided we're moving forward | 20:22 |
| LaserJock | it's difficult to change everything in a single IRC meeting | 20:22 |
| nubae | no mention of ubuntu in education unless specifically instructed by RichEd or Canonical | 20:23 |
| nubae | ie, edubuntu is the community and shouldnt be confused with ubuntu in education | 20:23 |
| Lns | I don't think we *need* to mention it anyway, they're all a part of that marketing anyway | 20:23 |
| Lns | we need to focus on our specific projects | 20:23 |
| nubae | with the edubuntu add on cd developed and maintained by the community | 20:23 |
| nubae | that makes things much easier to understand | 20:23 |
| nubae | Lns: right | 20:24 |
| Lns | ok | 20:24 |
| nubae | so I've offered to help with the edubuntu.org website | 20:24 |
| nubae | you've offered to do the youtube videos | 20:24 |
| Lns | Is there room to restructure the add-on cd? What exactly does it consist of, other than the packages (and an installer?) for edubuntu themes/apps ? | 20:24 |
| nubae | and I guess we should both go for MOTU too, so we can be more involved with the packages that make up the edubuntu cd | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | not much | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | Lns: ^^ | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | the CD currently has ~ 500MB out of 700MB total | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | we have plenty of room for things | 20:25 |
| Lns | ok...i've never used the addon cd, is there a good installer? | 20:25 |
| ogra | it still has 500 ? | 20:25 |
| Lns | clickie clickie? :) | 20:25 |
| ogra | it should be far less | 20:25 |
| LaserJock | ogra: let me look | 20:25 |
| nubae | edubuntu.org | 20:25 |
| ogra | WINFOSS was dropped last minute | 20:26 |
| nubae | explanations abound there | 20:26 |
| Lns | nubae: ko | 20:26 |
| ogra | that should have freed another 2-300 | 20:26 |
| Lns | ok* | 20:26 |
| LaserJock | oh geeze yeah | 20:26 |
| LaserJock | it's like 330MB | 20:26 |
| ogra | yeah | 20:26 |
| ogra | add as you like | 20:26 |
| nubae | wow lots of room to play with | 20:26 |
| LaserJock | so wow, yeah, lots of room | 20:26 |
| ogra | thats why i said it should be universe based | 20:26 |
| nubae | agreed | 20:27 |
| Lns | I think some demo videos (and other non-software related content) should be put on there | 20:27 |
| ogra | makes contribution easier as well | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | ogra: would that kill Canonical's support do you think? | 20:27 |
| ogra | any motu can help | 20:27 |
| ogra | LaserJock, RichEd matter | 20:27 |
| nubae | what support? | 20:27 |
| ogra | i'm not edu at all anymore, he makes the decisions | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | yeah, yeah :-) | 20:27 |
| LaserJock | nubae: Canonical officially provides support for Edubuntu | 20:27 |
| nubae | how? | 20:28 |
| ogra | nubae, currently all apps on the addon are officially canonical supported | 20:28 |
| ogra | you can buy support contracts | 20:28 |
| nubae | I thought all that moved to ubuntu in education | 20:28 |
| nubae | for edubuntu specifically? | 20:28 |
| nubae | or are we talking about ubuntu in education now? | 20:28 |
| ogra | no, for ubuntu in education | 20:28 |
| LaserJock | nubae: currently "ubuntu in education" is not a product | 20:28 |
| ogra | but the set of apps is currently defined by the edubuntu apps | 20:28 |
| nubae | right, so then again, how does canonical support that? | 20:29 |
| ogra | s/set of apps/set of supported edu apps/ | 20:29 |
| nubae | the apps themselves are supported? | 20:29 |
| Lns | nubae: yes | 20:29 |
| nubae | really= | 20:29 |
| nubae | ? | 20:29 |
| ogra | the list on the ubuntu.com page is | 20:29 |
| LaserJock | for instance, the apps get security support via people Canonical employees | 20:29 |
| nubae | I would have thought that was totally upstream | 20:29 |
| ogra | right | 20:29 |
| nubae | not upstream? | 20:29 |
| LaserJock | you can by support contracts for it too | 20:29 |
| nubae | for ubuntu in education I take it | 20:30 |
| ogra | and perople buying support contracts can get paid help on them | 20:30 |
| LaserJock | nubae: upstream writes code, we ship the code and make sure it all works | 20:30 |
| LaserJock | sometimes that means writing patches | 20:30 |
| ogra | and integrates | 20:30 |
| nubae | I see how canonical supports the ubuntu in education concept... | 20:31 |
| nubae | but arent the packages that make up edubuntu available seperately | 20:31 |
| nubae | so they actually fall under ubuntu support | 20:31 |
| LaserJock | well, it's all the same pool of packages | 20:31 |
| nubae | right, so how could they drop support then? | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | but certain sets of packages get enhanced support by Canonical | 20:32 |
| nubae | ahh... | 20:32 |
| nubae | ok | 20:32 |
| ogra | and the set of apps is atm defined by edubuntu-desktop | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | that is to say, *somebody* has to fix stuff | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | Canonical employees people to make sure it gets done for supported packages | 20:32 |
| ogra | a switch needs to be made so canonical defines the apps | 20:32 |
| LaserJock | *employs | 20:32 |
| ogra | and edubuntu cn be free to build from universe | 20:33 |
| nubae | ok gotcha now | 20:33 |
| ogra | that switch can only come from riched | 20:33 |
| LaserJock | ogra: well, with the archive reorg plan wouldn't it work? | 20:33 |
| ogra | no | 20:33 |
| ogra | the reorg plan is bound to seeds | 20:33 |
| LaserJock | that is we'd have our seeds and all we'd need to do is define the set of people who can upload to those seeds | 20:33 |
| ogra | right | 20:34 |
| LaserJock | that would lower the bar | 20:34 |
| ogra | but that still doesnt make rich happy | 20:34 |
| LaserJock | at least I think it would | 20:34 |
| ogra | he needs to define the supported set still | 20:34 |
| LaserJock | sure, but that's his problem, not mine ;-) | 20:34 |
| nubae | heh, well it affect edubuntu being universe or not | 20:35 |
| LaserJock | well, I'm not sure how long Universe/Main will exist | 20:35 |
| ogra | well, he needs to also agree on building from universe as long as he depends on edubuntu-desktop | 20:35 |
| ogra | still for a while i bet | 20:35 |
| LaserJock | past Jaunty you think? | 20:35 |
| ogra | probably | 20:35 |
| ogra | its a big change | 20:35 |
| LaserJock | ah, then that makes sense | 20:35 |
| LaserJock | well, I thought we had most of the Launchpad bits | 20:36 |
| LaserJock | but I guess the CD building would get messed up | 20:36 |
| LaserJock | in any case, we should start discussing it with RichEd | 20:36 |
| LaserJock | it would certainly be better for getting new developers if it was Universe | 20:37 |
| nubae | and more packages too right? | 20:37 |
| LaserJock | potentially | 20:37 |
| LaserJock | we wouldn't have to do the dreaded MIRs ;-) | 20:37 |
| * nubae runs to eat something | 20:38 | |
| ogra | LaserJock, so on another topic, do we see a post election post from you ? (/me found it intresting to see your perspective on politics (even though i dont agree with it but wouldnt even remotely be qualified to judge internals of a foreign country)) | 20:42 |
| LaserJock | ogra: oh man, I don't know | 20:42 |
| LaserJock | ogra: I'd like to do one, but I'm a bit tired of the "you're and idiot and I have no respect for you" comments | 20:43 |
| ogra | yeah, i can truely understand | 20:43 |
| rockstar | ogra, critiquing other people's countries is still quite okay. :) | 20:44 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, you might want to turn off comments. :) | 20:44 |
| ogra | rockstar, sure | 20:44 |
| ogra | i would simply find it intresting to see the other side of the medal post election | 20:45 |
| LaserJock | yeah, it's been interesting to see how seemingly interested and invested people from other nations have been in our elections | 20:45 |
| ogra | well, bush has put you in a very bad light over te years | 20:45 |
| rockstar | Yea, I was in London for the last two and a half weeks. It was amazing how much coverage there was. | 20:45 |
| LaserJock | jerome said in the Philippines it was front page news in the local newspapers | 20:46 |
| LaserJock | seems weird to me | 20:46 |
| LaserJock | but makes it all that more weighty and serious to me | 20:46 |
| rockstar | Especially because the US has absolutely no coverage of other countries' elections. | 20:47 |
| LaserJock | exactly | 20:47 |
| rockstar | ...unless it's a coup :) | 20:47 |
| ogra | heh, yeah | 20:47 |
| ogra | i think it was looked at all over the world | 20:47 |
| LaserJock | although I do remember some reporting about Germany, Canada, and Britian | 20:47 |
| LaserJock | but it wasn't a lot | 20:47 |
| ogra | i kept up myself until 6am | 20:47 |
| ogra | but thats surely shows how bad of a reputation your country had thanks to bush in the rest of the world | 20:48 |
| Lns | The US media is completely egocentric | 20:48 |
| ogra | yeah | 20:48 |
| ogra | world ends at the shore :) | 20:48 |
| Lns | We *never* hear about other countries unless it's something that involves us, or something we can mock them for | 20:48 |
| Lns | It's absurd | 20:48 |
| ogra | but you are simply so big | 20:48 |
| Lns | the world is bigger :) | 20:48 |
| LaserJock | well, to some degree though I would expect US media to talk primarily about the US | 20:49 |
| ogra | and i met many many people in your country that had never left ther small village | 20:49 |
| LaserJock | I just don't expect other nation's media to talk about the US so much | 20:49 |
| ogra | and are scared to do so | 20:49 |
| rockstar | Lns, for the most part, other countries are mocking us back. :) | 20:49 |
| LaserJock | to some degree I just wish the rest of the world would just ignore us :-) | 20:49 |
| Lns | rockstar: yeah, but we seem to instigate a lot of it | 20:49 |
| Lns | seriously | 20:49 |
| rockstar | ogra, that's a different problem. | 20:50 |
| rockstar | But those kinds of people are in every country. | 20:50 |
| ogra | yeah | 20:50 |
| LaserJock | ogra: after going to Paris i didn't want to leave *my* little village ;-) | 20:50 |
| ogra | heh | 20:50 |
| LaserJock | that food, uggg | 20:50 |
| Lns | I couldn't believe how many people outside the US know Obama/McCain and our election status...and I probably don't even know WHERE their country is on a globe | 20:50 |
| LaserJock | and getting pick-pocketed, no fun at all | 20:50 |
| ogra | LaserJock, but you still look over the edge ... | 20:50 |
| ogra | and dont hide behind the fence | 20:50 |
| LaserJock | if it wasn't for my good Ubuntu friends I would never leave the US again | 20:51 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, aren't you in Vegas? | 20:51 |
| LaserJock | rockstar: Reno | 20:51 |
| LaserJock | not exactly a village I suppose ... | 20:51 |
| Lns | Go Reno 911! | 20:51 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, I watch Reno 911. I know all about Reno. :) | 20:51 |
| LaserJock | lol | 20:51 |
| LaserJock | I've seen a few episodes | 20:51 |
| LaserJock | it's really weird | 20:51 |
| LaserJock | it's like "oh yeah, I know that store" | 20:51 |
| Lns | hehehe..rockstar, did you ever watch "The State" ? | 20:51 |
| rockstar | Lns, nope. | 20:52 |
| rockstar | I don't watch a lot of TV honestly. | 20:52 |
| Lns | rockstar: a lot of people from R911 were on The State...a skit comedy show a long time ago | 20:52 |
| * Lns tries to stay away from the TV as well | 20:52 | |
| rockstar | LaserJock, could you and I find some way that I could watch your process of doing MOTU related stuff? | 20:52 |
| LaserJock | rockstar: in what way? | 20:53 |
| LaserJock | like a "ride along"? | 20:53 |
| rockstar | I don't really like the whole "So you want to be a MOTU, here's a link. Read it" only to find that I've now started reading one of those choose your own adventure books. | 20:53 |
| LaserJock | lol | 20:53 |
| rockstar | It'll be nice when all packages are bzr branches. I know how to do that. :) | 20:54 |
| LaserJock | I've created bzr branches for many of the edu apps | 20:54 |
| rockstar | In fact, I wrote some of the code that serves bzr from lp | 20:54 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, which ones? | 20:54 |
| LaserJock | if people get interested we can start doing more bzr related maintenance, when it's just me I don't find it as useful | 20:55 |
| LaserJock | rockstar: have a look at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~laserjock | 20:55 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, it also helps me to see how source package branches really need to be. | 20:56 |
| ogra | LaserJock, it definately makes sense for all native packages | 20:56 |
| LaserJock | rockstar: if you have particular packages you're interested we could do a collaborative bzr setup | 20:56 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, are you an upstream developer as well? | 20:56 |
| LaserJock | rockstar: nope, not of any of those | 20:56 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, or maybe we create a team? | 20:57 |
| LaserJock | I do some upstream work on chemistry apps | 20:57 |
| LaserJock | here's one scenario, and perhaps ogra can chime in here | 20:57 |
| rockstar | That might help workflow a bit. There's a team that does the work, and then you just mentor it into main | 20:58 |
| LaserJock | we could create an edubuntu-packaging team that could hold bzr branches for the most common edubuntu packages | 20:58 |
| LaserJock | it could also then house a testing PPA | 20:58 |
| rockstar | +1 already. You don't have to keep going. :) | 20:58 |
| rockstar | Then you could do the syncs with main, all the while not blocking continued work. | 20:59 |
| LaserJock | in that way people can have fun learning to package in Edubuntu, and its a bit easier for me to sponsor stuff if it's in a bzr branch | 20:59 |
| LaserJock | ogra: think that's doable, practical? | 21:00 |
| rockstar | syncs to the packaging team's bzr branch could be done through merge proposals. | 21:00 |
| ogra | surely | 21:00 |
| ogra | that works very well if upstream is in bzr | 21:00 |
| LaserJock | in reality we currently don't have a lot of apps to worry about | 21:00 |
| ogra | which a lot is on LP | 21:00 |
| LaserJock | many of our apps come straight from Debian | 21:01 |
| LaserJock | and we work fairly hard to keep it that way | 21:01 |
| rockstar | ogra, I assume you know this is where all of Ubuntu's packages will be in 6 months anyway. | 21:01 |
| LaserJock | but anything where we are upstream or where we need to maintain a common diff | 21:01 |
| LaserJock | it could help | 21:01 |
| ogra | rockstar, indeed | 21:01 |
| LaserJock | I'm honestly not a huge bzr fan for packaging | 21:01 |
| rockstar | Edubuntu could really help me during the day if we started a flow like that. | 21:02 |
| LaserJock | I've done some experiments, etc. to get used to it | 21:02 |
| ogra | me neither ... but if source packages go away i will be | 21:02 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, resistance is futile. :) | 21:02 |
| ogra | currently you have a lot of duplication | 21:02 |
| LaserJock | james_w in particular has been creating some good tools to help at least | 21:02 |
| rockstar | Imagine apt-bzr, where you can pull the latest source, build a package, and install it. | 21:02 |
| LaserJock | yeah, and it seems like you end up having to track more stuff | 21:02 |
| ogra | if packages can build directly from bzr branches then its cool | 21:02 |
| rockstar | You can be ever more bleeding edge than debian unstable! | 21:03 |
| ogra | not that would want to :) | 21:03 |
| LaserJock | heh, yeah | 21:03 |
| ogra | the thing is that for package maintenance bzr currently adds a massive overhead | 21:03 |
| LaserJock | yeah | 21:03 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, so do you want to create a team? | 21:03 |
| ogra | i need to apply my changes to the bzr branch, pull them again, make a source package out of it and puch that | 21:04 |
| LaserJock | I've locally got bzr imports of all Debian and Ubuntu packages for ~ 10 Edubuntu apps | 21:04 |
| LaserJock | took a long time to do and takes up a lot of space | 21:04 |
| ogra | with sourcepackages only i can have my source, make my changes and just push | 21:04 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, push them plz | 21:04 |
| LaserJock | *but* seems like a more collaborative way of working for sure | 21:04 |
| ogra | the thing is that you need to make the sourcepackage go away in that setup | 21:05 |
| rockstar | And the current model is much less collaborative, IMHO | 21:05 |
| ogra | so you have only a bzr branch and a "build now damnit !" button next to the branch in LP | 21:05 |
| LaserJock | ogra: yep, that would work | 21:05 |
| rockstar | ogra, invent a time machine and go forward a year. :) | 21:05 |
| LaserJock | I just don't like how easily bzr and uploads can get out of sync | 21:05 |
| ogra | rockstar, nah, i can wait :) | 21:06 |
| LaserJock | you gotta really stick to the bzr to make it work well | 21:06 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, if you're doing the uploads, then they won't. | 21:06 |
| ogra | the thing is that until this is here we have a lot of duplication doing packaging | 21:06 |
| rockstar | ogra, agreed. | 21:06 |
| LaserJock | *but* I'm also using git and svn for maintaining in Debian and they work decent enough | 21:06 |
| LaserJock | the real bugger for us is that we have Debian to deal with | 21:06 |
| LaserJock | so I need to track upstream, debian, and my changes | 21:07 |
| ogra | well, not if debian gets puled into lp bzr branches | 21:07 |
| ogra | yu just merge two branches | 21:07 |
| LaserJock | hopefully yes | 21:07 |
| LaserJock | but currently | 21:07 |
| LaserJock | bit of a pain | 21:07 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, do you have stockholm syndrome? | 21:07 |
| ogra | https://code.launchpad.net/gcompris | 21:08 |
| LaserJock | most probably i do for sure | 21:08 |
| ogra | have a look | 21:08 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, :) | 21:08 |
| LaserJock | ogra: I got tuxpaint and tuxpaint stamps vcs imports going | 21:08 |
| ogra | https://code.launchpad.net/tuxpaint : | 21:09 |
| rockstar | If you need any other vcs imports, just set them up and ping me. I'll approve them immediately. | 21:09 |
| ogra | :) | 21:09 |
| LaserJock | I've been slowly working on getting the Edubuntu upstream projects registered in LP and getting vcs imports | 21:09 |
| ogra | i see | 21:09 |
| LaserJock | so upstreams are fairly easy | 21:09 |
| LaserJock | the packaging is the difficult part | 21:10 |
| LaserJock | and I'm not sure how much I want to mess up LP :-) | 21:10 |
| LaserJock | I have Debian imported locally | 21:10 |
| LaserJock | but I'm not sure if I want to make a branch jungle :-) | 21:10 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, mess up what? | 21:10 |
| LaserJock | well, mostly I'm concerned about confusing people with too many branches | 21:11 |
| rockstar | Branch jungles are easily avoided with release branches | 21:11 |
| rockstar | Er, series branches | 21:11 |
| LaserJock | and if I go and put up my own imports, then LP does imports, then I do Edubuntu imports | 21:11 |
| LaserJock | then we all get confused, give up, and go back to the "old fashioned" way | 21:12 |
| LaserJock | :-) | 21:12 |
| LaserJock | rockstar: do you have particular apps you're interested in? | 21:14 |
| rockstar | LaserJock, well, I don't really know. I'd like to be more involved in educational content on a whole, but anything to get started. | 21:20 |
| LaserJock | ok | 21:43 |
| LaserJock | so it looks like gpaint, tuxmath, and tuxpaint-stamps are the only edubuntu apps that we get straight from Debian | 21:43 |
| nubae | LaserJock: what did u think of the moodle idea? | 21:43 |
| LaserJock | 18 have Edubuntu modifications | 21:44 |
| LaserJock | and 4ish are Edubuntu-specific | 21:44 |
| LaserJock | nubae: well, it's something that would be fun, but I'm afraid that it probably isn't feasible | 21:45 |
| nubae | is there such a thing as install on click for ubuntu | 21:45 |
| nubae | LaserJock: why not? | 21:45 |
| LaserJock | nubae: I doubt that the Canonical IS team would allow moodle on any of their machines | 21:45 |
| LaserJock | nubae: yes, there is an install-on-click thing. it's called apturl | 21:45 |
| nubae | ah... and if we host it some place else? | 21:45 |
| nubae | my thinking is, we could store all the apps there for easy demoing | 21:46 |
| LaserJock | that's got a lot of problems as well | 21:46 |
| nubae | a database with links to all the apps | 21:46 |
| nubae | with explanation, etc | 21:46 |
| LaserJock | oh, well we can certainly do that kind of thing | 21:46 |
| LaserJock | just not with moodle | 21:46 |
| LaserJock | edubuntu.org is drupal | 21:46 |
| nubae | well, moodle is what I know best | 21:46 |
| nubae | yeah I know | 21:46 |
| nubae | its just not as friendly | 21:46 |
| LaserJock | we could also use a wiki page | 21:46 |
| nubae | would be nicer in a db, but yeah | 21:47 |
| LaserJock | well, some time ago | 21:47 |
| LaserJock | we had a spec about creating a full application database engine and webapp | 21:47 |
| nubae | but apturl is a good idea, it would bring a certain front to edubuntu... u would see what u get | 21:47 |
| LaserJock | it was a nice spec, just nobody to implement it | 21:47 |
| nubae | right now there is no place that defines whats in edubuntu | 21:49 |
| nubae | kind of important | 21:49 |
| LaserJock | yep, just not always easy to do/maintain | 21:51 |
| Lns | Anyone here wanna try running tuxpaint from a thinclient with the --nosound switch to see if it still pegs out the CPU and doesn't exit cleanly? See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tuxpaint/+bug/269082 | 22:29 |
| ubottu | Launchpad bug 269082 in tuxpaint "tuxpaint and other tux SDL driven apps slow down and/or freeze thin client terminals (ltsp)" [High,Confirmed] | 22:29 |
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