[00:00] stdin, what logs? where? [00:00] woody86: click the Open Week link in the topic, then click on the class name to get the log [00:00] stdin, oh, thanks :D === steve___1 is now known as mysterio === PrivateVoid_ is now known as PrivateVoid === PrivateVoid_ is now known as PrivateVoid === F4ilure is now known as Gonzofox === Gonzofox is now known as Defaultnick^ [05:50] dmesg [05:51] ... [05:52] - -! [05:52] nat3: hello, thailand [06:05] relax guy look over there [07:24] 0000000 === monsterb is now known as Brotherred [10:35] <|sundown|> Äîáðûé äåíü! Ìîæåò ëè êòî-íèáóäü ìíå ïîìî÷ü â âîïðîñå êîíôèãóðèðîâíèÿ âèðòóàëüíûõ ñåòåâûõ èíòåðôåéñîâ? [10:36] <|sundown|> Good day! Can anyone help me in the matter konfigurirovniya virtual network interfaces? === Rafik_ is now known as Rafik === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Current Session: Polishing a Package | Welcome to Openweek, questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please || Session details here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek [14:58] Welcome to day 3 of Ubuntu Open Week! [14:58] Schedule is here: [14:58] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek [14:58] we'll begin in a few minutes [14:59] \o/ [15:00] OK. Welcome to the OpenWeek session Polishing a Package. [15:01] I'm Emmet Hikory, a MOTU interested in package quality, amoung other things. I tend to prefer an interactive discussion, so please feel free to interrupt with questions if you have any. [15:02] ignore #ubuntu-classroom CRAP NOTICES SNOTES CTCPS JOINS PARTS QUITS KICKS MODES WALLOPS NICKS DCC DCCMSGS CLIENTNOTICES CLIENTCRAP CLIENTERRORS HILIGHTS [15:02] sorry for bad "ignore" [15:02] So, the goal of this session is to demonstrate some of the resources available to help improve the quality of a package. [15:03] Most packages in Ubuntu come from Debian, and those tend to have a maintainer, who generally does a pretty good job of keeping the package in shape. [15:04] While these techniques may also be applied to such packages, it's generally better to use them for packages that don't have a maintainer, at least until all those are in perfect shape. [15:05] The Ubuntu External Health Status pages try to keep track of packages that don't have Debian maintainers, and the status in relation to upstream. You can take a look at http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/ [15:05] Of most interest are the packages without a watch file or packages not updated. These are good candidates for some investigation and polish. [15:06] For today's example, I selected the ikvm package, which is shown as out of date on http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/no_updated.html [15:06] We have version 0.34.0.4 and upstream has 0.36.0.11, which probably contains some useful improvements that users might want. [15:08] So, looking at debian/copyright for the ikvm package, we can see that the upstream homepage is at ikvm.net. Some packages also have this information in the debian/control file, some in a README, etc. Depending on the state of the package, you may need to hunt a bit, although the contents of debian/watch may be helpful. [15:09] So, the first step is to grab the new upstream, and prepare the update. Doing that alone would make the package drop from the list of non-updated packages, but it's not always enough. [15:10] Next would be to take a look at the bugs outstanding against ikvm : you can see those from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ikvm/+bugs [15:11] As you can see, there's a few bugs that indicate some adjustments are required. At least making sure the pathnames are correct and that it can be used as a jvm seem reasonable requests, so it's worth trying to fix those as part of the update. [15:11] persia: can you join #ubuntu-classroom-chat ? [15:12] Did I miss a question there? [15:13] < ian_brasil> QUESTION: what is the best way to package for hildon?..pass --enable-hildon into configure.ac or some other way? [15:13] Well, that's a little outside of the scope of polishing packages, but it very much depends on the upstream sources. [15:15] So, once we've cleaned up those issues, it's worth checking to see if the package is in Debian. I usually do that by visiting http://packages.qa.debian.org [15:16] Entering the package name there will bring you to http://packages.qa.debian.org/i/ikvm.html which provides a nice summary of things needing doing. [15:17] We already knew about the new upstream, but it's worth checking the lintian warning. Apparently the manpage needs to have the charset defined, so that's another thing we can do before uploading. [15:18] There's also a link to the Debian bugtracker available from this page, so we can see the bugs in Debian. [15:19] One of these (Provide java-virtual-machine) looks a lot like the "ikvm is not installed as a viable java alternative" in Malone, so that's already done. [15:19] The other three are worth looking at in a bit more detail, and worth fixing. [15:21] Next, we'll take a look upstream. The "Report Bugs" link on the upstream homepage goes to the sourceforge bug tracker, and shows 1 open bug, which seems different than any of the other bugs we've seen. [15:22] This one is a bit more complicated, as it's hard to reproduce, so we'll let it go, but for a different package, you might find easy bugs, or bugs with patches available that you might want. [15:24] It's also worth checking to see if the package is in other distributions, and if they have any good patches that we might want. While this can be done manually, I tend to be lazy, and just check Harvest to use the automated patch collectors people have writted. [15:24] Harvest is available from http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/ Checking the Sourcepackage list, we see that ikvm doesn't have any outstanding opportunities, so there's nothing to get from there. [15:25] Note that right now, Harvest is only pulling patches from Fedora : I'm sure the Harvest team would appreciate it if anyone wants to write a feed for other distributions. [15:26] So, at this point, we've investigated everything, and hopefully put all the fixes into the package. [15:27] Next is cleanup : if we found a bug not reported upstream, and not fixed with the new upstream, and needed to create a patch, it's worth reporting that to the sourceforge tracker with the patch (and linking to the bug in Launchpad). [15:28] Similarly, if patches were prepared for the Debian bugs, those patches should be attached to the relevant Debian bugs, and we should add bug watches for the BTS bugs where we found them to match bugs already in Launchpad. [15:29] At this point, we're almost ready : it's worth running lintian a last time locally, just in case there's anything that happened as a result of the patching, and the package can be uploaded. [15:29] QUESTION: Because of the different freezes in current ubuntu release for package to go into repos, there's no real point in updating packages for intrepid for example? (except for release critical bugs right?) [15:30] For intrepid, no. For Jaunty, there's great value in updating and polishing the packages. Most packages have open bugs that don't get fixed because they aren't so important to the people usually working on the package (or maybe nobody works on the package). [15:31] While none of these would qualify for a stable release update (targeted at intrepid today), fixing them in the development release (jaunty today) means that when the next release happens, those users affected by the bugs are likely to be very pleased. [15:32] QUESTION: how can one get rights to upload a package? or should a updated package be sent to the maintainer? [15:34] Well, none of the packages listed at UEHS have an explicit maintainer : generally it's either one of the Ubuntu packaging teams or the Debian QA team. In cases where there is a Maintainer, it's best to communicate the patches in the Debian BTS, but if there's enough oustanding, or a good reason to update in Ubuntu (and you plan to track the package), one doesn't have to wait for the maintainer to upload. [15:35] If one doesn't yet have permission to upload, it's best to attach either a debdiff (no new upstream version), or the resulting diff.gz from the updated package to a bug, and subscribe the relevant sponsors team (ubuntu-main-sponsors or ubuntu-universe-sponsors) to request review and upload. [15:37] Any other questions? Is the process by which one finds various reported bugs or minor issues clear? [15:40] QUESTION: would harvest benefit from integration into maemo or are the patches there automatically pulled into ubuntu-mid [15:42] Well, I'm not sure what "integration into maemo" would mean for harvest, but any additional feeds to pull patches from known reliable patch authors for harvest would probably be good, as this helps to provide a complete picture of available fixes. [15:43] The package I picked didn't happen to be listed there, but if you look at other packages in the sourcepackages list, you can see that some have quite a few available patches, perhaps from Fedora, or perhaps in the bugtracker. [15:44] The more sources from which patches are available and shown, the easier it is for those cleaning up packages to make sure they are perfect. [15:46] QUESTION: there's a package with a new version in debian, but also a new (at the top) upstream version. What should we do? packaging it for debian, then packaging it for ubuntu? === graaf_ is now known as Nameless [15:48] Well, if you pick a package without a Debian Maintainer, and you prepare a new upstream version, it's worth checking with the Debian QA team to see if they would appreciate the update. Generally they advise that you might want to become the Debian maintainer, but rarely turn down help. [15:48] If such an update is accepted into Debian, and the Ubutu repositories are not yet frozen, that can be synced directly into Ubuntu, so there's no value in packaging it separately for Ubuntu. [15:50] If there's some reason that it can't be updated, or significant delay, and a freeze is approaching, or you really want to, it's worth sending it to Ubuntu directly, although usually this is just a change to the first line of the changelog, rather than a significant packaging difference. === sourcode_ is now known as sourcode [15:51] Also note that it's not always worth grabbing the very newest upstream : it may be that upstream has a stable release and a development release, and doesn't recommend the development release for most users. It may also be that a new upstream is incompatible with something else in some way, which may have to be resolved before it can be updated. [15:53] For packages with Maintainers, it's especially desirable not to update in advance of Debian, unless you're personally willing to be responsible for the package until Debian catches up: most Maintainers will update soon enough, and it's best not to duplicate work (as there are plenty of packages without maintainers). [15:54] meaning we should look for ophans packages ? [15:55] Well, I recommend starting with the packages in UEHS, or the packages in Harvest. Either is a good source of packages needing work. I usually recommend UEHS more at the beginning of a development cycle, and Harvest later, once things start to settle. [15:56] Every package in UEHS is either orphaned in Debian, or doesn't exist in Debian, and so has no specific individual maintainer. [15:56] Many packages in Harvest have a Debian maintainer, but in Ubuntu there are no specific maintainers generally, so most packages are fair game for basic updates. [15:57] There's no need to look specifically for an orphaned package. Of course, if there's nothing in UEHS, and nothing in Harvest, then maybe it's worth it, but there's a few thousand packages that need a bit of polich first :) [15:58] I think we have time for one more question before the end, if anyone has one. [15:58] weboide> persia: ok, so the most important would be UEHS, Harvest, and then orphans (debian or not?) packages [15:59] Well, once UEHS and Harvest are clear, I'd suggest just looking for packages with a few bugs in Launchpad, and using the same techniques to bring them up to date. Doesn't really matter if they are orphaned. [15:59] And with that, I'll turn you over to the Ubuntu Netbook Remix crew. Thanks for attending. [16:00] ty persia === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Current Session: Ubuntu Netbook Remix: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekintrepid/NetbookRemix | Welcome to Openweek, questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please || Session details here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek [16:00] Ok guys, take it away! [16:01] Hi all [16:01] There is a presentation that goes along with this talkk [16:01] you can find it linked in the topic [16:02] \o/ [16:02] I am Pete Goodall, the product manager for the OEM Services group at Canonical. And joining me are Neil Patel and Bill Filler, also with OEM Services [16:02] weee [16:03] bfiller: hello everyone :) [16:03] hi [16:03] I'll give you a quick agenda: [16:03] * Canonical and OEM Services Group [16:03] * What is Ubuntu Netbook Remix (UNR)? [16:03] * Ubuntu Netbook Remix pre-installed [16:04] * Installing UNR [16:04] * Language Support [16:04] * Contributing to UNR [16:04] If you have the presentation, let's go to slide 3 "Canonical" [16:05] For those of you that don't know Canonical is the commercial sponsor of the Ubuntu project. We employ many of the developers that work on Ubuntu. [16:05] [16:06] Neil, Bill and I work for the OEM Services group at Canonical, and we are the group that is responsible for customising Ubuntu for device manufacturers [16:07] By "customising" we mean making sure that all the hardware components work, integrating custom interfaces (ala Dell) and providing on-going maintenance. [16:07] [16:08] [16:08] Before I get into "What is Ubuntu Netbook Remix" I wanted to define what we mean about what a netbook is. [16:09] This is a term that is mostly coined by Intel, but refers to all these devices coming out that look like little laptops. [16:10] They usually have a resolution of 1024x600 (particularly problematic), and a low amount of local storage. They also tend to be low cost devices and have an Intel Atom processor. [16:10] However, the Intel Atom processor is not a hard requirement ;-) [16:11] [16:11] Ubuntu Netbook Remix came about because there was a massive amount of interest in running Ubuntu on these netbooks [16:12] We wanted to create a simple interface that was both easy to use, but put everything you needed within your view. [16:12] UNR is really bringing Linux to a new class of user, that typically doesn't know what Linux is [16:13] they just want to get their e-mail or blog, or chat with friends [16:14] We based UNR on Ubuntu 8.04 because it is an LTS release (long term support), and we tried to streamline things a bit by reducing the amount of applications preinstalled. However, that doesn't mean you cannot install whatever you want. [16:14] [16:15] Hopefully you all have the slides, but if you don't I just want to explain about the various elements of the UNR home screen, and what they do. [16:16] There are several components created specifically for UNR that create the look, feel and functionality. [16:17] The main thing the user sees when they start UNR is the Home Screen. On the left are application categories. In the middle are application launchers, and on the right are (generally) places and a way turn the device off. [16:17] It's nitpicky but battery and network labels are backwards, sorry for the interruption [16:17] nb72, np. I'll have to look at that. ;-) [16:18] hi [16:19] Anway, most of this will be familiar to you if you already use Ubuntu, but one thing that is slightly different is the "Favourites" cateogory. This allows the user to group the applications they use most, and this is the default category shown when you first login. [16:20] In the upper left of the screen, you see the Ubuntu logo and that is the "Go Home Applet". Clicking on that always brings you back to the home screen. So while you are using Firefox, you click on Go Home and start something else, like Pidgin. [16:21] Next to that is the Window Picker Applet. The icons to the right of the Ubuntu logo are the currently running applications and the title to the right is the application in focus. In this case "Home", but otherwise it would be the title bar for the currently running application. [16:22] The element you do not see is "Maximus". This is a daemon that runs in the background and make sure most applications always open maximised. [16:23] The reason we do this is to save screen real estate. Maximus also removes the title bar from the application window and puts it in the panel. [16:23] In addition, there is a gconf key to add application exceptions. We hope to make it easier in the future to do that. :-) [16:23] * repete_ looks at Neil ;-) [16:24] [16:25] Since UNR is based on Ubuntu 8.04 it still includes the applications current Ubuntu users (and Linux users in general) will be familiar with. These applications are all open source, and we always use open source applications when possible. [16:26] [16:27] All the components we created for UNR are open source software. [16:27] available at http://launchpad.net/unr [16:27] I have already mentioned most of the, except for two: The Human Netbook Theme and Desktop Switcher. === gouki_ is now known as gouki [16:28] The Human Netbook Theme is a theme, based on the standard Ubuntu Human theme, that goes better with UNR's components and layout. [16:29] The Desktop Switcher is a control centre applet that allows the user to switch back and forth between the UNR and the standard Ubuntu interface (termed as the "Classic" interface) [16:29] Thanks for the link bfiller [16:29] [16:30] As a value add for the device manufacturers, we include various third party components to make a more complete product. [16:31] These are commercial components (read: somebody has to be paid for their use), so we cannot include them in the publicly available offering. [16:32] But they are things that generally make things easier for those users that are not familiar with Linux and don't know how to install stuff like Adobe Flash, or legally licensed audio and video decoders. [16:33] [16:33] So as I mentioned before we work with device manufacturers to get Ubuntu and Ubuntu Netbook Remix on their device. This has a number of advantages. === artir_ is now known as artir [16:34] First, this means that all the hardware components work out of the box. That means you don't have to download and compile the latest madwifi or search user forums for which Windows driver to use with ndiswrapper. [16:35] Second, suspend and resume works...more than once :-) [16:35] In fact we test these devices to a much higher standard because those are the standards of the consumer electronics industry. [16:36] for example, suspend/resume tests are carried out between 300-400 times in a row before they are deemed a "pass" [16:36] Third, you can actually get support from the manufacturer. No more, "I'm sorry, but we don't support Linux... and I don't actually know what that is..." [16:36] Thx njpatel [16:37] Fourth, is what I talked about before. We include stuff like audio and video decoders that are legally licensed. [16:37] it also means that all the buttons on your keyboard work from the get-go :-D ! [16:38] And of course we test that all this stuff works. [16:38] If you haven't already got a netbook and are looking to get one, the Sylvania g Netbook Meso and the Toshiba NB100 are both available with UNR pre-installed. [16:39] [16:39] and the Dell Mini 9 ships with a UNR variant [16:39] So you may be saying to yourself, "I already bought a netbook and I just want to know how to run Ubuntu on it." [16:40] Just as a note, that screenshot on that slide is thanks to Gimp, not the watermark in the lower left. :-) [16:40] [16:41] Many community members have been asking for an installation image for UNR. We have not had one to date because UNR isn't really a new edition. [16:41] However, it is obvious this is something that people want because they already have a netbook and want Ubuntu one it. [16:42] Soon (this week I hope) we will downloadable images for you to install UNR and you won't even need a (non existent in many cases) CD-ROM. [16:43] Otherwise, your best bet for now (if you are impatient) is to use the instructions in the next slide. [16:43] [16:44] As I mentioned, products with UNR will be based on Ubuntu 8.04, but we have made the packages for UNR available in Ubuntu 8.10. [16:45] One thing to note is that the "ume-launcher" package has been re-named in 8.10 to "netbook-launcher" [16:45] the central place for installation instructions are at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/unr (instructions for image, hardy, intrepid, umpc-image) [16:46] The packages in 8.10 do not have the latest and greatest features, because we had to respect the feature freeze for 8.10. However, if you want to use the latest and greatest in 8.10 you can use the PPA. [16:46] (linked later) [16:46] also important to note, the unr pacakges can be installed on any computer running Ubuntu 8.04 or 8.10 (i.e. not just netbook, but laptops and desktops too) [16:47] another good point bfiller thx. [16:47] [16:47] Since UNR was first announced, we have built a vibrant community and have already taken both patches and suggestions from the community. [16:48] If you are interested in getting involved in UNR you should go to the UNR page on Launchpad, http://launchpad.net/unr [16:49] That page is a "super group" that includes all the packages for UNR. You can checkout the code using bzr. [16:49] I don't know if it has come up in the questions already, but the UNR Home Screen is written in Clutter. [16:50] If you are not already familiar with clutter... Use Google. :-) [16:50] repete_: time check, 10 mins remaining, should we get to the Q+A from questions on #ubuntu-classroom-chat [16:50] Sure. [16:50] QUESTION: could UNR be used to revive old computers , and will there be iso images for virtualbox so people can have an look at it this way? [16:50] knome QUESTION: So Asus EeePC is a netbook? [16:51] oops sorry repete_ , was starting from the top [16:51] np [16:51] go ahead. [16:51] ok [16:51] knome: yes EeePC is a netbook [16:52] QUESTION: what is the difference between ubuntu-mid and unr [16:52] QUESTION: what is the difference between ubuntu-mid and unr [16:52] * njpatel let's bfiller post the questions from now on [16:52] * bfiller smiles [16:52] ubuntu-mid is targetted at devices which have touchscreens and normally small displays with high dpis [16:53] unr (although capable of use with touch-screens) is targetted more at slightly larger screens and point-and-click ui [16:53] Are there any plans for Ubuntu on the Nokia n810? [16:53] billybigrigger: QUESTION: what is running on the homescreen? looks like a gnome panel with kde4 menu??? [16:54] The home screen consists of gnome-panel and a clutter-based launcher [16:54] the launcher replaces the traditional desktop [16:54] no kdelibs in sight ;-) [16:55] billybigrigger: QUESTION: what is the default install size for UNR? [16:55] billybigrigger: it's about 2.5 GB installed [16:55] meant to fix on 4 GB SSD and greater [16:55] s/fix/fit === artir__ is now known as artir [16:56] QUESTION: will UNR will have USB Install Option [16:56] has anyone heard of retail point of sale software? [16:57] I am at work so I have to make this legit [16:57] xander21c: the UNR image will be installable via bootable USB image, so yes [16:57] QUESTION: There's a rumour around that Asus doesn't like the xandros distribution and is currently testing ubuntu for the eee pc. Do you know anything about that? [16:57] repete_: care to comment on this question? [16:58] Even if I did I couldn't comment :-) [16:58] I know many people imediatly put ubuntu on there eee when they get them [16:58] I don't know anything about it either [16:58] I will say that *many* people have install UNR on a eeePC [16:58] next question .. [16:58] QUESTION: could UNR be used to revive old computers , and will there be iso images for virtualbox so people can have an look at it this way? [16:58] as the launcher is clutter-based this poses a bit of a problem [16:59] You have to be able to boot via usb for it to work [16:59] clutter uses opengl for displaying, so if the old computer can run opengl decently, everything should work fine [16:59] I tried back in the day with pentium 2s and small dog [16:59] currently we don't have plans to provide iso image, only .img [16:59] whta is the diference between ubuntu-eepc and UNR [17:00] for the same reason, it won't work inside virtualbox (it may do in software rendering, but it'll suck) [17:00] (last question) [17:00] hhlp: not sure what you mean [17:00] ok we are out of time, what irc channel can people follow up on? [17:00] hhlp, eeePC is a device and UNR is the software that (could) run on that device. [17:01] #ubuntu-mobile [17:01] people can follow up on #ubuntu-mobile [17:01] thx all! [17:01] excellent, thanks guys! [17:01] thank you === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Current Session: Community Q+A: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekintrepid/NetbookRemix | Welcome to Openweek, questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please || Session details here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek [17:02] are you on facebook I found this via jono on facebook, add me paul gysler [17:02] whats our topic [17:02] ok next session is ubuntu Q+A [17:02] please ask questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat [17:02] jcastro, you might want to remove the netbookremix -url [17:03] knome: duh, thanks [17:03] np === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Current Session: Community Q+A | Welcome to Openweek, questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please || Session details here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek [17:03] jono: take it away, man of metal! [17:04] hey everyone! [17:04] OK I still am at work so I will ask the question, has anyone heard of a point of sale software for ubuntu in a retail store like ace hardware [17:04] yea [17:04] hammer__, please, speak in #ubuntu-classroom-chat [17:04] hammer__: please keep this channel ontopic, we're having a session [17:05] ok folks, welcome to the Community Q+A session :) [17:05] help me out I am noob on IRC [17:05] my name is Jono and I am the Ubuntu Community Manager working at Canonical [17:05] my job is to help the Ubuntu community to be a strong community [17:06] And a musician, "Linux outlaw" [17:06] hammer__, please....#ubuntu-classroom-chat [17:07] oh [17:07] at every open week session I have a Q+A where you can ask any questions you like about the ubuntu community, me, my team or related topics [17:07] so, head over to #ubuntu-classroom-chat and ask your questions there, prefixing them with QUESTION, eg: [17:07] FreelanceJazz will be pasting in the questions [17:07] QUESTION: Why is metal the greatest artform in the work? [17:07] world [17:07] oopshehe [17:07] hehe [17:07] ... lol [17:08] hehe [17:08] thanks FreelanceJazz [17:08] No problem Mr Bacon [17:08] so let me give you folks a few mins to ask some questions, and then we will begin [17:08] QUESTION: Any support for Ubuntu on the Nokia n810? [17:09] from michlinuxguy [17:10] Ubuntu does not run on the n810 right now, but a bunch of related Free Software technologies do [17:11] we have seen the Nokia Internet Tablets be a great breeding ground for free software [17:11] but Ubuntu is not available for it [17:11] unimatrix9: QUESTION: is the ubuntu community structure becoming to complex for mortal soul to understand, or do you think its very transparant? [17:12] good question [17:12] FreelanceJazz: question on ubuntu-clasroom-chat please [17:12] nxvl, he is pasting them for me [17:12] oh [17:12] :D [17:12] then ignore me [17:12] No worries [17:12] nxvl, will do :) [17:12] * jono chuckles [17:12] I think the community always faces the risk of becoming too complex, but have worked hard to keep it as simple as possible [17:13] much of this is about communication - helping people to understand how to slide their brick in the wall [17:13] with so many teams, structures, processes and governance, that can be difficult at times - but in the next cycle we are going to continue to improve this [17:14] I am confident that we can always make the community a simple place to get involved, and initiatives like Ubuntu Open Week, Ubuntu Developer Week, 5-A-Day, Jams and more, really help this along [17:14] but, one important point... [17:14] if you think it is too complex - let me know [17:14] jono AT ubuntu DOT com [17:14] xander21c: QUESTION: Is there cases of Ubuntu LoCO currently working us companies giving support? [17:15] not sure I understand the question, can you ask again [17:15] DoruHush: QUESTION: What others subjects should we choose to discuss? [17:16] in which context, DoruHush ? [17:16] I think they mean 'what can we talk about in this session?' [17:16] no [17:16] read the lines above that [17:16] ubuntu.ro open nights [17:16] 19:10 DoruHush: with only 3 days, called ,,Ubuntu.ro Open Nights" with this sessions: [17:16] 19:10 DoruHush: ,,Ubuntu.ro Team", ,,If you used windows - about open alternatives", ,,How to become involved in translatoins", [17:17] 19:10 DoruHush: ,,Compiling a program - workshop", ,,Using subtitles when payng video files in vlc - workshop". [17:17] 19:10 DoruHush: The ,,Ubuntu.ro Open Nights" will take place next week on #ubuntu-ro IRC channel. [17:17] 19:10 DoruHush: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RomanianTeam/Proiecte/Suport/SerileDeschiseNov2008 [17:17] ^ context [17:17] I am not in ubuntu-ro, so I can't really answer [17:17] LjL: QUESTION: Can teams (not limited to LoCo teams) obtain an "official" status? If so, how, and how is a team's status checked? [17:18] we don't really have the concept of official teams, but we do have established teams [17:18] some teams have been around since the birth of ubuntu, so many see them as official [17:18] but the definition of official and approved in our community is anything approved by the Community Council [17:18] if the CC deem something right for Ubuntu, you can consider it as official [17:19] RoAkSoAx: QUESTION: xander21c asks if there are cases where Ubuntu LoCo Teams are currently working with companies, by giving support [17:19] sure, there are many cases all over the world where companies look to LoCo teams for advice and support [17:20] many companies typically hear about Ubuntu, and they look to the community to find out more [17:20] and in many cases they find their LoCo who also help them [17:20] this is an excellent, and important function that LoCo teams provide for Ubuntu [17:20] :) [17:20] cyphermox: QUESTION: what do you think is the most interesting achievement that we've made as a community? Aside from releasing Intrepid, of course ;) [17:20] ooh great question [17:21] aside from delivering Ubuntu, every six months, which is in itself an incredibly achievement... [17:21] I think the most stunning thing that we have achieved is our sense of adventure in our community [17:21] we really do have a strong sense of changing things, and having an impact === neverendingo_ is now known as neverendingo [17:22] but importantly, this sense of drive is underlined with an even stronger sense of togetherness in how we move forward [17:22] I am proud that our community actually "feels" like a community [17:23] we work together, we manage problems together, we celebrate together and we console each other together - Ubuntu is not just about kick-arse distribution development, but about friends, and that is the what I think is our crowning achievement [17:23] Xoke: QUESTION: Do you think Nvidia will ever sort their drivers out properly on linux. Not neccersarily opening them up but getting the darn things to work properly (nvidia-96 and 71 still have issues on intrepid). I'm not blaming ubuntu on the nvidia screwups mind, just wondering if they will ever open up to ubuntu [17:24] proprietary software is always riddled with these kinds of issues, and its frustrating for a distribution of course because we generally have a tapestry of free software, and when we see bugs, we fix them [17:25] we can't do that with closed sourced code, and that makes us feel uncomfortable about compromising the quality and stability of Ubuntu [17:25] but I think one day, NVidia *will* get it [17:26] but the driving force is going to be economics - NVidia need to know it is not commercially sensible to have a closed source driver [17:26] and market changes will make that happen - but I think Intel and ATI will drive them that way [17:26] unimatrix9: QUESTION: If Canonical was to stop supporting Ubuntu, because of the financial crisis ( lets hope it does not happen ) what effect would this have on the community? (NB: edited to make it make real sense in the form of an official question) [17:26] ok, so first and foremost, Canonical is *not* going to stop supporting Ubuntu [17:27] and not stop developing Ubuntu [17:27] I know we are in worrying times right now, but we are confident we can ride the storm out [17:28] and Mark is 100% behind that [17:28] so firstly, don't worry [17:28] but now onto how sustainable Ubuntu is without Ubuntu [17:28] oops [17:28] without Canonical [17:29] if Canonical went away, it would naturally affect Ubuntu - we hire a lot of developers and other staff who work on training, support, marketing, certification, testing and more [17:29] all of these functions revolve around the Ubuntu platform [17:29] but at the heart of Ubuntu is community, and open and transparent community, and with this central governance in place, it means that if Canonical went away, Ubuntu could carry on [17:29] LjL: QUESTION: Wouldn't it be beneficial, for various coordination tasks, for teams or projects that have been approved by the Community Council to bear a mark in Launchpad (by being themselvse a member of Ubuntu Members, or another such trick)? === santiago-pgsql is now known as Guest70218 [17:30] LjL, possibly - I am sure that just outlining "approved by the CC" status would change the social economics of the project that much, but possibly - will note it down === Guest70218 is now known as santiago-ve [17:31] r000n: QUESTION: Why Ubuntu includes Mono software even in LiveCD version? Problems with MS patents impossible? [17:31] ahhh the great Mono debate :) [17:31] I am not going to delve into this too far as Mono has been debated often enough across the net [17:31] but its important to remember a few things: [17:32] the Mono project very specifically separate out the core library and framework (which is all legally above board) from the bits which could worry a few lawyers [17:32] as such, the Mono project themselves have insulated the vast majority of potential legal threats [17:34] secondly, a lot of people rag on Mono (the clearly legal bits), but forget that Microsoft have targeted many other parts of the Linux stack, so lets not see Mono as the only problem [17:34] DoruHush: QUESTION: Ubuntu will include in the future multimedia made by the users, that will be placed in „Example” folder. What is the procedure, if one whant to contribute. [17:35] this is the Ubuntu Free Culture Showcase - it is a competition on each release cycle where we like to showcase quality Free Culture media by including it in the Examples/ folder in Ubuntu [17:35] we will be launching the Ubuntu Free Culture Showcase later in the cycle - just stay tuned for more details [17:35] I will announce it on my blog, which will appear on Planet Ubuntu and The Fridge [17:35] Picklesworth: QUESTION: What should new teams and development projects around Ubuntu do so that people are better able and more welcome to contribute? [17:36] the best gift to a new contributor is an outstretched hand === lemma is now known as lemmAway [17:37] every new contributor wants to feel welcomes, and like there is someone there who can help [17:38] as such I recommend that when you see new people, introduce yourself, ask them how you can help them, and get them up and running with things to do [17:38] I also recommend that all teams make it really easy for someone to find out: [17:38] * how to join the team [17:38] * what they need to know to contribute [17:39] * what the team hopes to achieve [17:39] this will help people get up and running quickly :) [17:39] sloopy: QUESTION: Finding info (HOW TO's, ubuntu specific FAQ's, etcs) on the help pages (help.ubuntu.com, wiki.ubuntu.com,etc) is hard to browse often, so i have to resort to using google to find specific info within those pages, any suggestions on how to make help more accessable/easier to get answers to questions and issues? [17:40] I think there are lots of opportunities for us to improve how we deal with help [17:40] I think it would be great to have better methods of searching and indexing help [17:40] and better processes for updating, refining, and knowing what people need help on [17:40] I would recommend working with the docs team on this - this is valuable work === ntinos__ is now known as ntinos_ [17:41] xander21c: QUESTION: Do LoCos can be registered as some kind of organization to obtain profit by giving ubuntu support === lemmAway is now known as lemma [17:41] no, we don't offer direct funding right now through a programme - Canonical does sponsor some LoCos, but that is at our discretion [17:42] cyphermox: QUESTION: Would there be a benefit is growing your team to overlook different parts of the world, e.g. someone for NA, somebody else for Europe, or Asia, etc.? [17:43] I don't think it makes that much sense right now to focus on geographical regions, but my team could benefit from focus on additional areas of the community [17:43] in fact, right now I am hiring a new horseman or horsewoman to focus on translations, and I would like to expand the team into other areas in the future [17:43] unimatrix9: QUESTION: will ubuntu have legal open source DVD playback any time soon? [17:44] I am not really the best person to answer that question - I don't work with ISVs [17:44] ok so we are done with all the questions so fatr [17:44] any more? [17:45] RoAkSoAx: QUESTION: can we register our LoCo team as some kind of organization in our own country? which kind? [17:46] some team have done that with LoCos to make them legal entities, mainly for tax and financial reasons [17:46] I would only recommend that you do this if you absolutely have to [17:46] its a paperwork nightmare [17:46] unimatrix9: QUESTION: are most of the community based in europe , how does it look from the other side of the world? [17:46] the community really is worldwide [17:47] as an example, we have 170+ LoCo teams, in pretty much every country in the world [17:47] we have a huge worldwide spread in all teams and in all kinds of contribution [17:47] any more questions? [17:47] samgee: QUESTION: when Gobuntu died both you and Mark Shuttleworth expressed interessed in working closer together with gNewSense. How is that coming along? [17:48] I have not had a chance to check in with the development team to if we have made any more changes in that direction [17:48] I think Gobuntu helped us in one very specific way though [17:49] it framed a new question in Ubuntu, a question that helped us assess freedom in different ways [17:49] any more q's? [17:51] ok I think we are done [17:51] thanks for the questions folks! [17:51] Wait! [17:51] yusuf_: Question: Ubuntu without the internet is not very intresting. is there improvment being made on this aspect? [17:52] I will finish on this one [17:53] we want Ubuntu to be valuable in the unconnected world, and that is why we care so much about getting as much on the disc as possible - we want to be able to ship a complete system for offline use [17:53]