[00:04] fta: it is your call :) === asac_ is now known as asac [00:20] does flash work? [00:21] no. we specifically put in some code to break it because it'd be funny to watch 30 million people install it and scratch their heads. [00:24] ok bug dound [00:26] hi there. ant in intrepid seems to depend on gcj even though i have openjdk installed. is this correct? am i supposed to ignore dependencies or something or just install gcj too? === CarlFK1 is now known as CarlF1 [00:29] ScottK: Hi, the bug with pycentral in bug 293208 is the way dist-upgrade of python-modules are handled by pycentral [00:29] Launchpad bug 293208 in python-central "package python-reportlab 2.1dfsg-2 failed to install/upgrade: " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293208 [00:29] ScottK: mvo and pitti have discussed about it in bug 291262 [00:29] Launchpad bug 291262 in python-central "package python-psyco 1.6-1 failed to install/upgrade: pycentral pkginstall: not overwriting local files" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291262 [00:33] pitti: hmm, seem to be hitting a large number of archive 404s :-/ [00:39] elmo: around? [00:41] yeah [00:41] * cjwatson starts to flush out syncs, at least as far as the autosyncer managed to get before falling over [00:41] elmo: is there an internal archive casey should use instead of archive.u.c ? [00:42] Keybuk: what's wrong with archive.u.c ? [00:42] elmo: it keeps 404ing [00:43] checking [00:44] as if Packages is being updated but not pool [00:44] nah, a couple of machines are out of sync [00:45] due to trigger hoarkage, I'm ficking it [00:46] cjwatson: Are we expecting queue-builder to collapse again this time, meaning buildds sit idle for hours, or is that fixed? [00:46] I'm sure whatever bug we hit last time is fixed [00:46] wgrant: I have no idea and am not all that desperately worried [00:46] wgrant: we'll find out [00:46] and that we'll find all new bugs this time [00:46] ;) [00:47] Heh. [00:47] wgrant: have faith [00:47] Alright, lets get on deving 9.04 [00:48] But how do a newbie as me go about doing so? [00:48] I mean newbie to Open Source development [00:48] http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributeToUbuntu [00:49] ajmitch: Perhaps. [00:49] Keybuk: all in sync, and should be ok going forward [00:50] thanks [00:50] looks like it ran this time [00:57] cjwatson: thank you [00:58] tjaalton: have you seen bug #283015 by chance? I see that you've done a lot of the xkb-data uploads [00:58] Launchpad bug 283015 in xkeyboard-config "Error in numeric keypad -> "." (dot) key displays "," (comma) instead" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283015 === jt66 is now known as jtisme [01:09] How do I get involved? [01:09] Thayle, #ubuntu-motu is best for you [01:09] Alright thanks. [01:09] remember that many people are busy with the election though [01:10] with the election, or with the election parties? [01:11] heh [01:12] * ajmitch really should go & vote this weekend then [01:13] so you can get your free coffee at Starbucks? [01:13] I doubt they'd do that here :) [01:14] slangasek: isn't that a felony? [01:15] we have to endure a few more days of campaigning in NZ still [01:15] jdong: getting free coffee? [01:15] darn, hardy [01:15] What has Hardy done now? [01:15] hardy's debootstrap won't let me create a jaunty pbuilder tarball [01:16] Hah. [01:16] Symlinks win there. [01:16] haven't upgraded the laptop to intrepid yet :) [01:16] ajmitch: pass the extra arg to tell it to use the intrepid or hardy script for building [01:18] slangasek: it's offering a monetary incentive to vote, is it not? :) [01:19] jdong: I believe they've stopped doing that [01:19] ajmitch: really? is it for that reason? [01:19] jdong: Starbucks actually already got slapped for trying to offer it as an incentive for voting, so they instead changed it to giving free coffee to everyone [01:19] slangasek: ah, gotcha :) [01:19] slangasek: sadly I don't have any starbucks around here [01:19] jdong: from what I heard, yes, a number of companies have changed to just giving free stuff/discounts to all [01:20] ajmitch: haha interesting, I didn't think they'd take that radical reading of election laws so literally :) [01:20] jdong: well you're not missing much, it's only brewed coffee that they're giving away :) [01:20] also, it's not that Starbucks took the reading literally, it's that the Washington sec of state smacked them [01:20] slangasek: with that money I can power my car for 0.5 seconds! [01:21] * Keybuk tries to remember what the tomerge files are for [01:21] DaD maybe? [01:21] Adri2000: ? [01:22] ajmitch: I haven't backported that debootstrap yet [01:22] ajmitch: but yes, the jaunty script is just a symlink to gutsy, let alone hardy/intrepid [01:22] yes, I've just put in that symlink for now [01:25] ok, mom's brain wiped again *sigh* [01:25] That sounded very strange. [01:30] wgrant: better than last time we had that mom and dad merging discussion. [01:30] that sounded much worse. [01:32] jdong: Indeed, indeed. [01:34] ERROR:root:dpkg-genchanges for changes/ubuntu/d/dia/dia_0.96.1-7ubuntu1_source.changes failed [01:34] kooky [01:54] right [01:54] let's try a patch publish again [01:56] ok, http://patches.ubuntu.com/ now has correct data I think [01:58] hum what happened to mom? did she die? [01:58] she suffered an aneurysm during her move [02:00] is she talking about moving in with dad again? [02:00] Keybuk: MoM moved? [02:01] Your MoM is so fat... ugh, never mind. :( [02:04] StevenK: casey likes to throw disks [02:04] and when casey isn't throwing disks, mom is filling 'em [02:04] looks like there was more damage from the filled disk than I thought [02:05] Keybuk: yes that was for doing a DaD-like front-end to MoM. iirc I started doing something but nothing was actually finished and published [02:05] I guess you can keep them though, they might be useful for something else in the future [02:05] mathiaz patched them to add more info, so he must be using them for something ;) [02:11] comments support: [02:11] it would be nice to have that as plain cgi [02:11] not being resident in memory would make elmo happier [02:16] right [02:16] let's spin this again and see whether we get merges with patches this time ;) [02:19] ValueError: process failed 17: dpkg-source -x abiword_2.6.4-4.dsc /srv/patches.ubuntu.com/unpacked/a/abiword/2.6.4-4 [02:19] GnNNAARRGH [02:19] that's not a useful error to work with [02:22] ScottK, hola [02:59] Keybuk: :13:57 < nhandler> Is MoM being updated? It only goes up to 'm' right now [02:59] : [02:59] from -motu [03:00] see above [03:01] Keybuk: ah, I only recalled your saying patches should be ok earlier [03:01] Keybuk: thanks [03:47] wgrant, ping [03:51] NCommander: Hi. [03:51] wgrant, care to do some upload sponsoring? [03:52] NCommander: Sorry, lots of homework. [03:52] np [04:24] NCommander: Hello. [04:24] hey ScottK [05:20] mom working on universe now [05:20] pitti: http://merges.ubuntu.com/a/autogen/ now has both sets of patches ; [05:23] oh, I mean multiverse === Keybuk changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Jaunty open, MoM running, go wild! | Ubuntu 8.10 released! | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not app development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper-intrepid | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs [05:48] ... [05:48] looks like cjwatson did a sync [06:15] Good morning [06:15] hey pitti! [06:15] Keybuk: I noticed some packages which have both patches [06:15] Keybuk: archive 404> ah, that could be it; I occasionally get that on my box as well, but 5 seconds later it works again [06:16] looked like a combination of factors [06:17] yay jaunty [06:18] of course, now it has to catch up with the sync [06:18] Hey pitti [06:26] cjwatson, it looks like that task bug won't actually be resolved until soyuz 2.1.11 on at least 2008-11-19. at least until then would you anticipate any ramifications in switching it back over to calling upon the meta packages in livecd-rootfs? [06:28] if not, i'll do another upload of livecd-rootfs with that hack in place to do a first alpha, planning to remove it shortly after first alpha [06:41] MoM? [06:44] merge-o-matic [06:44] damnit [06:44] iz our lil' friend [06:44] I cannot sing Beautiful Dreamer, and I haven't been able to actually record on Ubuntu for like 6 releases [06:47] cool [07:25] slangasek: aww that one.. yes it was mentioned on another bug that got fixed.. should be simple to fix [07:25] ok, cool :) === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [07:47] ArneGoetje: intrepid-proposed langpacks copied; however, since the jaunty sync wave is building, too, building the langpacks will take a while [07:52] i386 1532 builds waiting in queue [07:52] Daaaaaaaaaaaaaamn [07:52] need more buildds :) [07:52] unifying the ppa and ubuntu buildds would be great in times like that [07:53] whee! [07:53] pitti: does that mean you'll fix your buildd.py script to work for rescores again? :) [07:53] pitti: There are bugs about that, filed by almighty people. [07:53] yeah, I talked about that with Adam [07:54] pitti, if there was a way to run buildds easily under kvm, perhaps temporary buildds could be arranged for these times [07:54] Pooling buildds between the big three archs and PPA/primary would indeed be very nice. [07:55] and about 800 of those builds are langpacks, which are currently only built by i386 buildds [07:55] Hmm, pretty pathetic sync run. Was that incomplete, or are we seeing the effects of the Lenny freeze? [07:57] wgrant, I'm pretty sure we are [07:57] though I can't be bothered to dig up statistics for how sid has changed in the past several months [07:58] ogasawara: o_O [07:58] ogasawara: I thought we settled for having just one bug for tracking 2.6.27.y patches, to ease bureaucracy? [07:59] ogasawara: so from all those invalid bugs I take it that intrepid final already has 2.6.27.2? [07:59] ogasawara: ah, yeah, that's what the changelog says anyway [08:45] * soren makes a note to remember to upload a new vim with syntax highlighting for Jaunty+1 *before* Jaunty releases [08:46] *nod* [08:46] soren: current vim doesn't have syntax highlighting? [08:47] current vim should. [08:47] lasko: *phew* :) [08:47] Not for "Jaunty" in changelogs. [08:47] it does highlight jaunty [08:47] in that oh-so-attractive yellow-on-OMG-red ;) [08:48] Well.. Yes. :) [08:48] Though... if I remember correctly it requires vim-full? [08:49] No, it's in vim-runtime. [08:49] The syntax definition, that is. [08:49] ahh [08:51] cjwatson: Are you doing vim already or should I grab it? [08:52] I don't think he's up yet === hunger is now known as Guest33852 [08:57] soren: just do it :) [08:57] hey soren [08:57] NCommander: ahoy. === hunger_t is now known as hunger [08:57] pitti: Will do :) [08:57] random throught of the day: using vimplate helps a lot for creating debian bugs with ubuntu patches [08:57] soren, how goes it this $TIME_OF_DAY [08:58] soren: which remeinds me that I totally forgot to upload mutt as my first merge; damn [08:58] oh, we are current, nevermind [09:00] NCommander: I'm not sure, really. I'm rather knackered. I didn't get to sleep much last night. [09:00] NCommander: Yourself? [09:01] pitti: mighty pitti. mind moving audacious from proposed to updates? bug #291643 [09:01] Launchpad bug 291643 in audacious "Audacious plays the last playlist instead of the double-clicked file" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/291643 [09:01] sebner: hm, I already went through the list today, that wasn't on my radar [09:01] sebner: nack; just 2 days old, needs 7 [09:01] soren, trying to sleep and failing miserably -/ [09:02] pitti: also though I have already 4-5 positive comments? [09:02] NCommander: 'tis easy. Just stop. [09:03] sebner: it's current policy; we occasionally do exceptions for really grave bugs, where the severity outweighs the risk of regression [09:03] pitti: Ok Í see. anyway, thx [09:03] but it needs explicit justification === lamont` is now known as lamont [09:09] \sh: heck, what *is* wrong in the picture? :-) [09:09] pitti: You don't see it? :-P [09:09] oh, now I do [09:10] oops :) [09:10] Haha [09:10] that's the australian mirror [09:10] Haha [09:10] ʎןʇɔɐxǝ [09:14] wow [09:14] McCain got slaughter [09:14] er [09:14] wrong channel [09:14] yay, MoM finished [09:14] * Keybuk remembers to unlock her [09:15] You lock up MoM? [09:15] sure [09:16] * Keybuk decides that chewing on a permanent CD marker is not such a great idea [09:20] * mvo uploads a jaunty update-manager (for the early birds) [09:22] oh dear... [09:22] pitti: you leave the Changed-By to be mom? [09:22] Keybuk: whoops; not usually, that was a brainfart [09:23] Keybuk: I usually merge by hand, but that asciidoc thing was so simple that I just took MoM's output [09:23] pitti: Including "DESCRIBE CHANGES HERE" ? [09:23] * sebner hugs mvo for that :P [09:23] StevenK: no, the changelog is fine :) [09:24] but apparently I used "vi", not "dch" [09:24] I often wonder if I made MoM secretly add "THIS PACKAGE WAS MERGED BY AN INATTENTIVE PERSON" to the description, how many people would notice :p [09:24] Hahah [09:25] * pitti sighs at the devscripts delta [09:26] soren: do you think we could make "-net nic,model=virtio" default in the kvm in jaunty? [09:27] soren: and maybe a bigger default than -m 128 ? [09:27] mvo: oh, is that the magic incantation to actually get network in kvm? [09:27] and -soundhw all [09:27] and make it somehow magically work on my XPS [09:27] pitti: for me "-net user -net nic,model=virtio" is the key to get fast networking [09:27] mvo: well, at first I wanted to get networking *at all* [09:28] Keybuk: yeah, good point [09:28] pitti: otherwise its stuck at ~300kb/sec even from a local cache [09:28] pitti: oh? -net user did that for me, but that is the default AFAIK [09:28] * Keybuk has the only Intel Core 2 Duo without Virtualization support [09:28] mvo: inside it might work, but at the host I tried to configure pan0 appropriately, and it wouldn't work [09:29] mvo: simply no ping; and that didn't even get to masquerading or so [09:29] I ended up kpartx-mounting the image for copying stuff into the vm [09:30] Keybuk, nope, I got one too [09:30] Yay first generation hardware [09:30] but since it can run amd64, vmware works [09:30] Keybuk, wait, if it supports amd64, it should have VTx [09:30] NCommander: tell that to Dell [09:30] THe chip supports it [09:31] you might need to cox the bios to enable it [09:31] mvo: No. [09:31] NCommander: no vmx in /proc/cpuinfo [09:31] mvo: That would make anything but Hardy and Intrepid fail miserably. [09:31] whereas my Intel Core Duo has vmx in /proc/cpuinfo even when disabled in the BIOS [09:31] Keybuk, d'oh [09:31] mvo: (the nic model thing, that is) [09:32] Keybuk, what model Dell is it? [09:32] NCommander: XPS m1330 [09:32] hrm [09:33] Keybuk, the m1330 is listed as supporting it [09:33] You need a BIOS greater than A2 however [09:34] soren: oh, ok - that is a good arguement against it ;) [09:34] Keybuk, to get it to work on mine, I had to apply a hack to my BIOS :-) [09:35] a hack? [09:35] Sony locks out VTx on their chips [09:35] YOu have to mod the BIOS to enable it [09:35] * NCommander LOVES playing find the offset [09:36] Dell just seems to require a new enough BIOS [09:36] * Keybuk has bios A08 [09:36] And no VTx ENABLE in the POST menu? [09:36] nope [09:36] Keybuk: vmx capabilities show up in cpuinfo even when disabled in the BIOS. That's expected. [09:37] soren, not always [09:37] it's a T5550 [09:37] Ouch [09:37] Ok [09:37] Yeah [09:37] NCommander: I've never seen it not happen. [09:37] I can't believe they actually shipped a core without VMX which the T5550 is [09:38] * Keybuk has no understanding of Intel product names or numbers [09:38] soren, I know on this machine I always had it, it was just a matter of hacking the Phoenix BIOS this POS came with [09:39] * NCommander notes that he got this machine at prices that are disturbing low [09:39] Only reason I got a sony [09:39] this was the cheapest on-offer pick from the website [09:39] it mostly runs iTunes and Lightroom ;) [09:43] Keybuk, it could be worse [09:43] when does jaunty go EOL? [09:43] t'other half got the expensive, top-of-the-range 1550 [09:44] NCommander: Do you actually have examples of hardware that manages to hide vmx even from cpuinfo when disabled in the bios? [09:44] directhex: two years last thursday [09:44] soren, yes! this desktop pc does that! [09:44] directhex, its a little early for that ;-) [09:44] directhex, its a little early for that ;-) [09:44] er [09:44] NCommander, not when warning upstream of which versions of their apps will be shipped [09:44] Not offhand sommer [09:45] wow [09:45] I totally fail Keybuk [09:45] wait, no, that was soren [09:45] directhex: Brand? [09:45] -ENOSLEEP [09:45] soren, HP [09:45] directhex: Can I see your cpuinfo, please? [09:45] soren, i had to actually flash on a replacement BIOS just to get the ability to turn it on [09:45] directhex, It has an AMD core, right? [09:45] NCommander, intel [09:45] O_o; [09:45] I've only seen AMD's do that [09:45] NCommander: AMD's don't have vmx. [09:45] * Keybuk bestows the Tollef Award for Terseness on mvo [09:45] update-manager (1:0.95) jaunty; urgency=low [09:45] * updated for jaunty [09:46] I meant the equivelent of vmx for AMD [09:46] -- [09:46] NCommander: svm, then [09:46] * soren nods [09:46] soren, i turned it on in the replacement "vpro" bios: flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good pni monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr lahf_lm [09:46] soren, the regular bios doesn't have the functionality, full stop [09:47] directhex: So no chance of seeing the full cpuinfo with the regular bios? [09:48] soren, some processors only report abilities when they are actually active [09:48] soren, not unless i boot XP and re-flash [09:48] soren, i.e., last time I checked, lm only shows up when my process is actually in long mode [09:48] s/process/processor [09:49] soren, an HP dc7700, if you care [09:50] * mvo happily accepts the award from Keybuk and put it into his trophy glass cabinet [09:50] speech! [09:51] soren, you seem suprised that cpuinfo isn't always static [09:52] soren, http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/SoftwareIndex.jsp?lang=en&cc=us&prodNameId=3232108&prodTypeId=12454&prodSeriesId=3232029&swLang=13&taskId=135&swEnvOID=1093#120 [09:52] soren, the "HP Compaq Business Desktop System BIOS (786E1 BIOS)" download cannot do vmx [09:52] "HP Compaq dc7700p Business Desktop System BIOS for Intel vPro Technology (786E1 BIOS)" can [09:53] NCommander: Not really. I'm just puzzled that it's the case for vmx/svm. I never encountered a system where it wasn't reported in cpuinfo, if the CPU had the capabilities. [09:53] soren, well, I would think its a safety feature [09:53] How so? [09:53] hrrrrm [09:53] Error in /home/chipzz/.mutt/sidebar, line 5: sidebar_width: unknown variable [09:54] Programs trying to use VTx are supposed to check with the BIOS to make sure it actually would be safe to do so [09:54] but the changelog documents the sidebar patch as being applied? [09:54] Virtualization solutions like Xen run guest OSes in Ring 1, and only fault to -1 (VTx) when needed [09:55] I would guess that this behavior exists to make sure no instructions are not run in the wrong ring by accident [09:55] soren: ^^ [09:55] since you did the last upload [09:55] soren, I have absolutely no idea if thats the truth, but its the only plausable explication I can think of (lm is the other mode that sometimes seems to disappear and reappear as well ...) [09:56] Chipzz: Do you have mutt-patched installed? [09:56] just mutt; but the mutt changelog documents the patch as being applied [09:56] * soren is using the sidebar patch quite happily. [09:56] Chipzz: Yes. To mutt-patched. [09:56] are mutt and mutt-patched build from the same source? [09:56] Yes. [09:56] ah, that would explain [09:57] quite misleading though [09:57] What is? [09:57] NCommander, it's true - kvm was what told me i had no vmx flag [09:57] that the changelog of mutt documents a feature being applied in mutt-changed [09:58] (yes I know packages built from the same source have the same changelog; [09:58] directhex, wait, kvm told you? [09:58] hence my comment about "quite confusing") [09:58] NCommander, well, the init script [09:58] directhex, that error message usually means the BIOS isn't allowing access to ring -1 [09:58] anyway problem fixed [09:59] NCommander, the init script just looks for "vmx" or "svm" in cflags, and if you have neither, says " log_failure_msg "Your system does not have the CPU extensions required to use KVM. Not doing anything."" [09:59] cpuflags, even [09:59] Oh, I see [10:00] * NCommander notes VTx is an amazing hack [10:00] soren: maybe make a note in the changelog about mutt-patched? [10:01] directhex, you know how VTx works? [10:02] NCommander, black magic and voodoo? that's enough for me [10:02] lol [10:02] Chipzz: I'm not going to change earlier changelog entries. I might add a reference to mutt-patched in mutt's long description, though. [10:04] mvo: I just started upgrading my wife's computer to 8.10; u-n told me about the missing nvidia driver [10:04] mvo: however, since version -96 now works again in intrepid-proposed, we should update u-m as well for that; is that already on your radar, or shall I open a tracking bug for this? [10:04] mvo: (or a new task, rather) [10:06] pitti: its on my radar, tseliot mentioned it yesterday [10:06] * pitti hugs mvo [10:07] pitti: I just need to add checks so that we ensure we never end up with the non-working version [10:08] mvo: that's similar to the jockey update (bug 293107) [10:08] Launchpad bug 293107 in jockey "Offer nvidia driver version 96 again" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/293107 [10:08] soren: I wasn't suggesting that. but in the next changelog maybe? [10:08] mvo: I think we can safely do it once the new driver is in intrepid-updates, right? [10:08] mvo: btw, version 71 still seems to fail [10:09] Chipzz: Like " * Oh, look! There's a package called mutt-patched, too!" ? :) [10:10] pitti: oh, good to know [10:10] soren: :) or just mentioning that the patch is only applied to mutt-patched next time updating the patch? [10:11] 11:05 <@ _mike_> zo, alle newszilla dreaders zijn nu debian/lenny, met de laatste diablo code, en een openvz 0-master [10:11] 11:05 <@ _mike_> [10:11] OOPS [10:11] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [10:11] pitti: yeah, I think so too. when its in -updates we should be fine [10:12] Treenaks: where you from? [10:12] so.. on-topic, what about disabling middle-button emulation (left+right=middle) for jaunty? [10:13] Treenaks, it's disabled? :( [10:13] directhex: no, it's enabled [10:13] Treenaks, thank god [10:13] directhex: that's why I pasted something I didn't want to paste [10:16] Treenaks: get a better IRC client? [10:16] xchat requires you to press Enter after pasting [10:17] i wonder if smuxi does [10:17] Keybuk: so does irssi, but only if you paste more than 3 lines [10:17] Keybuk: but good idea, thanks.. I'll see if I can configure that [10:18] Treenaks: the real problem there is using an IRC client that is blissfully unaware of the fact you're running in a GUI [10:18] there are plenty of real GUI clients available ;) [10:19] Keybuk: make a screen for X apps and I'll consider them ;) [10:19] it's called vnc :P [10:19] s/screen/gnu-screen like program/ [10:19] for those who use irssi so that they can run it under screen, I note that bip seems to work very well with xchat: you can quit xchat whenever you like, and then re-connect to bip (an irc proxy) when you feel like being flooded again [10:21] really? [10:21] -directhex- VERSION bip-0.7.2 [10:26] see, I just don't bother [10:26] liw++ [10:26] and accept that people will talk about me when I'm not here [10:26] I don't let it worry me [10:27] Middle button emulation for the win. [10:27] Keybuk, I don't care if people talk about me, but I find it practical to know when they talk _to_ me, without my having to monitor irc constantly [10:27] Keybuk, there is an unfortunate tendency amongst people to wait for people to get onto irc rather than e-mail them :( [10:28] if you're eating dinner, or asleep, why does it matter if they're talking to you? [10:28] you can't do anything about it - so there's no real point to being online [10:28] and the best bit is [10:28] if you're not online [10:28] they stop trying [10:28] that's certainly a valid point of view, I don't disagree with that at all [10:29] but people have expressed annoyance if I*m not on irc throughout my entire work day [10:32] why would you disconnect during your working day? [10:32] to be able to concentrate for a while, without having xchat interrupt me [10:33] Keybuk: But you might miss out on people talking *about* you. :( [10:33] liw: I just ignore it [10:33]