[00:00] <hggdh> are you running X?
[00:00] <hggdh> (KDE, Gnome, etc)
[00:00] <cllaudyu> gnome
[00:00] <hggdh> and this is a gnome-terminal you are executing the commands under?
[00:00] <cllaudyu> yes
[00:00] <hggdh> weird...
[00:00] <jspiro> cllaudyu: do you see apport yet?
[00:01] <cllaudyu> i got a error apt get terminated unexpected
[00:01] <jspiro> cllaudyu: yes, that is apport
[00:01] <hggdh> in a pop-up?
[00:01] <cllaudyu> now i repport?
[00:01] <cllaudyu> yes
[00:01] <hggdh> you wait a bit while it collects data, then it should prompt you to send the data or not
[00:02] <hggdh> select send
[00:02] <cllaudyu> it's sending
[00:02] <cllaudyu> it was sent
[00:02] <cllaudyu> that's it?
[00:03] <hggdh> no
[00:03] <cllaudyu> my browser opened
[00:04] <hggdh> now you file the bug
[00:04] <cllaudyu> i logged in launchpad what do i do nesxt?
[00:04] <cllaudyu> next
[00:05] <jspiro> cllaudyu: hggdh told you, "now you file the bug".
[00:05] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  fill in all the questions that your web browser asks you.  If you are not sure, then ask us what to type.
[00:05] <hggdh> brb
[00:06] <cllaudyu> browser crashed
[00:06] <jspiro> cllaudyu: :(
[00:06] <cllaudyu> i lost it
[00:06] <jspiro> cllaudyu: then you will have to do this again:  sudo apt-get update
[00:06] <cllaudyu> if i log in again how do i do it?
[00:06] <jspiro> cllaudyu: wait: which browser?
[00:06] <cllaudyu> firefox
[00:06] <jspiro> cllaudyu: start Firefox again.  Applications > Internet > Firefox
[00:07] <jspiro> it may be able to take you back to where you were before the crash
[00:07] <cllaudyu> it crashed again
[00:07] <cllaudyu> no
[00:07] <cllaudyu> it didn't
[00:07] <cllaudyu> it the ubuntu home page
[00:07] <cllaudyu> :((
[00:07] <jspiro> cllaudyu: ok.  quit the browser, then sudo apt-get update
[00:08] <cllaudyu> sudo apt-get updated now it worked
[00:08] <cllaudyu> is this ok?
[00:08] <jspiro> cllaudyu: did you get a segmentation fault?
[00:08] <cllaudyu> no
[00:08] <cllaudyu> it worked fine
[00:08] <jspiro> cllaudyu: wait
[00:09] <cllaudyu> il do it again
[00:09] <jspiro> cllaudyu: do you also have any other operating system than Linux?
[00:09] <cllaudyu> only xp
[00:09] <jspiro> cllaudyu: does xp work perfectly?
[00:09] <cllaudyu> no
[00:09] <jspiro> cllaudyu: or have you been having crashing and other weird problems there too?
[00:09] <cllaudyu> yes
[00:09] <jspiro> if so: what kinds?
[00:09] <cllaudyu> it crashes often
[00:09] <jspiro> do you have any idea what's wrong?
[00:10] <cllaudyu> no i really don't
[00:10] <jspiro> cllaudyu: how about ubuntu?  do programs crash often too?
[00:10] <cllaudyu> it just restarts for no reason
[00:10] <cllaudyu> ubuntu does not restart but some programs crashes
[00:10] <cllaudyu> yes
[00:10] <jspiro> cllaudyu: (in ubuntu, when programs crash, they disappear from your screen.  You might see the words "Segmentation fault" or you might not.)
[00:10] <cllaudyu> i haven't seen it
[00:11] <cllaudyu> maybe if i open them in terminal
[00:11] <jspiro> cllaudyu: you can start them in a terminal like this:
[00:11] <jspiro> firefox &
[00:11] <cllaudyu> xchat crashed earlyer and did got no error pop-up
[00:11] <jspiro> or: xchat &
[00:11] <jspiro> or similar
[00:12] <cllaudyu> i'l try with firefox
[00:12] <jspiro> cllaudyu: yes, there was no pop-up because apport was off.
[00:12] <jspiro> now apport is enabled, so you will see apport every time a program crashes.
[00:12] <cllaudyu> now it's on and i'l get pop-ups
[00:12] <cllaudyu> ok
[00:12] <cllaudyu> then
[00:12] <cllaudyu> when i have a chrash
[00:12] <jspiro> cllaudyu: yes.  every time a program crashes, please report it.  Use your real email address.  You will get emails back if we need more information.  You will get emails also when a problem is fixed.
[00:13] <cllaudyu> what do i do in launchapd?
[00:13] <jspiro> cllaudyu: you fill in the blanks then click "Submit".  if you need help, ask us here in this channel (#ubuntu-bugs)
[00:13] <cllaudyu> ok thanks
[00:13] <cllaudyu> i'l ask help at soon as i have a problem
[00:14] <jspiro> cllaudyu: excellent.  by filling in apport reports, you can help make ubuntu better.
[00:15] <jspiro> all : how likely is it that cllaudyu is experiencing hardware problems which are leading to his repeated crashes?
[00:15] <hggdh> jspiro, I sort of doubt
[00:16] <jspiro> what else could it be?
[00:16] <hggdh> sigsegv is usually memory management
[00:16] <jspiro> what do you mean?
[00:16] <jspiro> so he doesn't have enough ram?
[00:16] <jspiro> that shouldn't mean crashing.
[00:17] <hggdh> no,
[00:17] <cllaudyu> i have 256 mb ram isn't that enough?
[00:17] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  I don't know.  Anyone?
[00:18] <cllaudyu> 512mb ram is required of ubuntu?
[00:18] <hggdh> it is sort of on the low side, but this should not be the sigsegv cause
[00:18] <cllaudyu> for*
[00:20] <hggdh> sigsegv usually is caused by program errors on memory usage
[00:22] <hggdh> jspiro, 256M will probably limit what you can run under Gnome (before starting to trash heavily on swap space)
[00:23] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  Computers use "swap" so if it runs out of RAM, it saves some of your memory to disk temporarily.  You can tell your computer is swapping when your computer becomes extremely sluggish, and the red hard-disk-usage light on the front of your desktop computer turns on continuously, for 10 seconds or more.
[00:23] <cllaudyu> ok
[00:23] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  I think there is a way to use the Gnome System Monitor to check on swap, but I don't know how.  And I don't have the Gnome System Monitor installed on my computer.
[00:24] <jspiro> You have it though.
[00:25] <cllaudyu> i created swap partition with 1GB if it's ok then i shouldn't have no prblms
[00:25] <cllaudyu> right?
[00:26] <cllaudyu> swap is used only 12.3%
[00:27] <cllaudyu> could my computer/programs crash if i have big CPU usage?
[00:32] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  1GB is enough swap.
[00:32] <cllaudyu> i had apport again
[00:32] <cllaudyu> i'm on launchpad
[00:32] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  I don't think they would crash more because you don't have enough RAM.
[00:33] <cllaudyu> it's a list of repports but none of them reaches to one i have
[00:33] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  But if you are using more than 0% of swap, then switching back and forth between multiple programs will be slower.
[00:33] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  skip the list
[00:33] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  report a new bug
[00:33] <cllaudyu> and now
[00:34] <cllaudyu> what info cand i write???
[00:34] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  which program crashed?
[00:34] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  what was the last thing you did?
[00:34] <jspiro> (if you remember)
[00:34] <jspiro> if it is a web browser, what was the last link you clicked on?
[00:34] <cllaudyu> i done command sudo apt-get update in terminal
[00:35] <jspiro> cllaudyu: and what did it say onscreen?
[00:35] <cllaudyu> i just subbmit it?
[00:35] <jspiro> cllaudyu: what did apt-get say?
[00:35] <cllaudyu> apt-get crashed with SIGSEGV
[00:35] <jspiro> cllaudyu: what did it say in the terminal?
[00:36] <cllaudyu> segmantation fault
[00:36] <jspiro> cllaudyu: what else?  a percentage?
[00:36] <cllaudyu> no just that
[00:36] <cllaudyu> i just click on submmit
[00:36] <jspiro> cllaudyu: what are the next 3 lines after the line "sudo apt-get update"?
[00:36] <cllaudyu> ?
[00:37] <jspiro> cllaudyu: no
[00:37] <jspiro> cllaudyu: the next 3 lines in your terminal
[00:37] <cllaudyu> wait
[00:38] <cllaudyu> the urls from where it was updating
[00:38] <jspiro> cllaudyu: what is the last line before "Segmentation fault"?
[00:38] <cllaudyu> complete chech something like it
[00:38] <jspiro> cllaudyu: the exact and complete line please
[00:39] <cllaudyu> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[00:39] <jspiro> cllaudyu: what is the entire line right before that one?
[00:40] <cllaudyu> it interupted updating
[00:40] <cllaudyu> it was  aurl
[00:40] <cllaudyu> url
[00:40] <jspiro> cllaudyu: which url?  please copy and paste the whole line.
[00:40] <cllaudyu> http://packages.medibuntu.org hardy/non-free Sources
[00:41] <jspiro> cllaudyu: 1 minute please
[00:41] <cllaudyu> ok
[00:41] <jspiro> cllaudyu: that was not a whole line.  It should start with Get, Ign, or Hit.
[00:41] <jspiro> cllaudyu: it should end with a number or a letter.
[00:42] <jspiro> cllaudyu: please try copying and pasting again :)
[00:42] <cllaudyu> ok
[00:42] <cllaudyu> Atins http://packages.medibuntu.org hardy/non-free Packages
[00:42] <cllaudyu> Atins http://packages.medibuntu.org hardy/free Sources
[00:42] <cllaudyu> Atins http://packages.medibuntu.org hardy/non-free Sources
[00:42] <cllaudyu> Adus 6511B în 1s (5665B/s)
[00:42] <cllaudyu> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[00:42] <cllaudyu> is this ok?
[00:42] <jspiro> cllaudyu: yes
[00:42] <jspiro> cllaudyu: then title the report this: apt-get segfaulted right after "Got 6511B in 1s" when I typed "sudo apt-get update"
[00:43] <cllaudyu> ok
[00:44] <jspiro> cllaudyu: when you write the report, copy and paste everything that apt-get told you, starting with "sudo apt-get update" and ending with "Segmentation fault (core dumped)"
[00:46] <cllaudyu> i pasted it
[00:46] <cllaudyu> now i submmit it
[00:47] <cllaudyu> done
[00:49] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  what is the URL?
[00:49] <cllaudyu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apt/+bug/294460
[00:49] <jspiro> cllaudyu: thank you very much for your bug report.
[00:49] <cllaudyu> thank you too
[00:49] <jspiro> cllaudyu: by the way, if you use English every time you use apt-get, it will be easier for us to understand your bug reports.  To do an apt-get update in English, do this:
[00:50] <jspiro> LANG=C sudo apt-get update
[00:50] <jspiro> everyone :  It tells me "Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page.  You are logged in as Jason Spiro."  Why?
[00:51] <jspiro> (when trying to view cllaudy's bug)
[00:52] <hggdh> nobody is cleared to look at the bug until apport finishes processing it
[00:52] <jspiro> how long does that usually take?
[00:53] <hggdh> when an apport crash bug is filed, only the apport bot has access to it -- it will extract the coredump, process it, and then release the bug
[00:53] <hggdh> about 10 to 20 min
[00:53] <hggdh> (depends on the load)
[00:53] <jspiro> is there a way we can bump this bug to earlier in the queue?  If not, why not?
[00:54] <jspiro> :)
[00:54] <hggdh> cuz it is automated processing ;-)
[00:54] <hggdh> meanwhile, you can look at the birds singing, chirping, or doing whatever it is birds do
[00:55] <hggdh> :-D
[00:55] <cllaudyu> what Changed security from Private to Public means?
[00:55] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  it means everybody can see your report now.
[00:55] <hggdh> it means now everybody can look at the bug
[00:56] <hggdh> before only those subscribed could
[00:56] <cllaudyu> aaa
[00:56] <hggdh> all apport bugs with a crashdump are private
[00:56] <cllaudyu> hope this will help
[00:57] <hggdh> cllaudyu, we should get a nice backtrace (hopefully), and we will go from there
[01:07] <cllaudyu> i changed security to public
[01:08] <jspiro> cllaudyu: thank you, I can see it now.
[01:08] <jspiro> Stacktrace:
[01:08] <jspiro>  #0 0xb7e9ae10 in ?? ()
[01:08] <jspiro>  #1 0x34323264 in ?? ()
[01:08] <jspiro>  Backtrace stopped: previous frame inner to this frame (corrupt stack?)
[01:08] <jspiro> StacktraceTop:
[01:08] <jspiro>  ?? ()
[01:08] <jspiro>  ?? ()
[01:08] <jspiro> anyone?
[01:08] <jspiro> what does the above mean?
[01:09] <jspiro> ah, it is still not retraced.  it is tagged "need-i386-retrace"
[01:10] <cllaudyu> what that means?
[01:11] <hggdh> right now it means apport has not yet worked on the coredump
[01:11] <hggdh> so we have to wait
[01:11] <cllaudyu> aha
[01:12] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  Feel free to go have a hot drink, or go outside, while waiting.  In fact, you can quit from IRC if you want.  If you are not on IRC anymore when we look at the bug, we will add a comment and launchpad.net will email the comment to you.
[01:12] <hggdh> cllaudyu, just for curiosity -- on a terminal, type 'vmstat'
[01:12] <hggdh> it will print out 3 lines; copy the LAST one here
[01:13] <cllaudyu> 1  1 127080  41784   8112 101932    8   22   150    78  259  702 25  5 67  3
[01:13] <cllaudyu> got it?
[01:13] <jspiro> hggdh:  when you surround command names by single quotes, some people type the quotes by accident.  :)  I usually use colons like: vmstat
[01:13] <hggdh> different styles, I guess :-)
[01:14] <cllaudyu> i pasted the last line
[01:14] <jspiro> cllaudyu: yes, we saw it.
[01:14] <hggdh> thanks. you are indeed low on memory, but not critical
[01:15] <cllaudyu> ok
[01:16] <cllaudyu> hope to see some results soon i'm out bye
[01:16] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  thanks again for the report.  Results won't be immediate.
[01:16] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  it could take 1 day, or it could take 2 weeks, or more.
[01:16] <cllaudyu> it's no prblem for
[01:17] <cllaudyu> me
[01:17] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  if you are usually on IRC, add a comment to the report
[01:17] <cllaudyu> ok
[01:17] <jspiro> tell us you are usually on freenode, and that your nickname is cllaudyu.  Then we can send you a /msg even if you aren't in any channel.
[01:18] <jspiro> cllaudyu: or we can email you.
[01:18] <cllaudyu> i'l better receive emails
[01:18] <jspiro> cllaudyu: no promise
[01:18] <cllaudyu> ok
[01:18] <jspiro> cllaudyu: we are all volunteers.  But we will try.
[01:18] <cllaudyu> thanks
[01:18] <jspiro> you're welcome.
[01:18] <cllaudyu> i'm romanian by the way
[01:18] <jspiro> i am canadian
[01:19] <cllaudyu> my english is a not so good
[01:19] <jspiro> I am in Eastern Standard Time.  I think GMT-0700
[01:19] <jspiro> cllaudyu: your english is good enough :)
[01:19] <cllaudyu> too be understood i know
[01:20] <cllaudyu> but i don't really understand when somebody tells me something
[01:20] <cllaudyu> special long phrases
[01:21] <jspiro> Your vocabulary and grammar are very good.  Two things you should work on are homonyms and spelling.  to/too and now/know are examples.  You can learn more by reading websites in English, watching TV in English (www.hulu.com),
[01:22] <jspiro> cllaudyu: listening to radio in English (www.shoutcast.net), and speaking in English on IRC.
[01:22] <cllaudyu> thanks for thoose links
[01:22] <cllaudyu> i will try my best
[01:23] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  you're welcome.  Also, always keep an English -> Romanian dictionary nearby, so you can look up all the words you don't know.  Try https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/browse/type:1/cat:37?sort=popular for dictionary software
[01:24] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  also, when you don't understand what someone means, tell them you are ESL, and ask them to explain using simpler language.
[01:24] <jspiro> (a speaker of English as a Second Language)
[01:25] <cllaudyu> ok i understood
[01:25] <cllaudyu> thank you very much
[01:25] <jspiro> you're welcome.
[01:25] <jspiro> cllaudyu: for more help with english, see channel ##english
[01:26] <cllaudyu> i think i can get help only by writing it.... i learned it since a child but didn't got so interested of it...
[01:26] <hggdh> cllaudyu, we can understand you, don't worry
[01:26] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  yes.  I understood you fine.
[01:27] <cllaudyu> i'm worring about my spelling
[01:27] <cllaudyu> worried
[01:27] <jspiro> cllaudyu: your spelling is good enough for us to understand.
[01:27] <hggdh> cllaudyu, this is irc. *everybody* writes wrong
[01:27] <jspiro> cllaudyu: when somebody writes "know" instead of "now", or "too" instead of "to", we know what you mean.
[01:27] <jspiro> cllaudyu: if you are very worried, use an XChat built-in spellchecker.  But it is not important.
[01:27] <cllaudyu> think about some people who does not know english...
[01:28] <cllaudyu> yeah, the time there is different from here
[01:29] <cllaudyu> eastern european time
[01:29] <cllaudyu> i think it's daylight over there
[01:30] <jspiro> cllaudyu: it is night here in Toronto, Canada.
[01:30] <cllaudyu> here is ooo the darkest night
[01:30] <cllaudyu> 03:30
[01:30] <jspiro> cllaudyu: then go to sleep :) wait for an email from us.
[01:30] <cllaudyu> i can't sleep thanks
[01:31]  * jspiro always finds that when I turn off my computer, I fall asleep sooner.
[01:32] <jspiro> my brother, OTOH, counts sheep in his imagination
[01:32] <jspiro> they say it works.
[01:32] <cllaudyu> i know that in canada there are tow languages spoken french and english am i right?
[01:33] <woody86> cllaudyu- yes, that's correct
[01:33] <cllaudyu> i'd love to count girls in my imagiantion...
[01:33] <woody86> cllaudyu- french more so on the eastern side if I'm not mistaken
[01:33] <jspiro> cllaudyu: but here in Toronto, 97% or so of people speak English.
[01:33] <jspiro> only
[01:33] <cllaudyu> strange thing!
[01:33] <jspiro> in Montreal, more than 50% speak French.  in Quebec City, more than 75%
[01:33] <cllaudyu> i wonder how thit it get this way
[01:34] <jspiro> cllaudyu: the French came from France to Quebec province many years ago.  everyone else went to other parts of Canada.
[01:34] <cllaudyu> canada is split appart from america?
[01:35] <woody86> cllaudyu- nope, we butt right up against eachother
[01:37] <cllaudyu> i would love to be canadian
[01:37] <cllaudyu> ;)
[01:37] <woody86> cllaudyu- you're telling me :) I'm moving to Vancouver in a couple years
[01:38] <cllaudyu> woddy86 good for you.... search for romania to see where i'm from
[01:38] <cllaudyu> i guess you'l be amazed
[01:39] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  could you move to Western Europe?
[01:39] <cllaudyu> i could
[01:39] <jspiro> cllaudyu:  you do know a lot of English already, which must help, no?
[01:39] <cllaudyu> yes...
[01:39] <cllaudyu> but in europe there's spoken ither kinds of languges
[01:39] <cllaudyu> other
[01:40] <cllaudyu> german deutsch
[01:40] <cllaudyu> french i should have to know every one of them
[01:40] <cllaudyu> i wonder if you have heard of romania?
[01:41] <cllaudyu> or from were did you heard of it...
[01:41] <jspiro> cllaudyu: my aunt's family is from romania.
[01:41] <jspiro> my family is from hungary.
[01:41] <cllaudyu> strange combination
[01:42] <cllaudyu> maybe we're relatives :)
[01:42] <jspiro> cllaudyu: (btw i see at https://launchpad.net/~cllaudyu1987 that you didn't fill in a public email address.  It would be helpful.)
[01:42] <jspiro> cllaudyu: could be :)
[01:42] <cllaudyu> hmmm
[01:42] <cllaudyu> where to fiil it?
[01:43] <cllaudyu> trust me i don't know a thing
[01:43] <cllaudyu> on that launchpap
[01:43] <jspiro> cllaudyu: https://launchpad.net/~cllaudyu/+edit
[01:43] <cllaudyu> i'm learning do
[01:43] <cllaudyu> page not found
[01:44] <cllaudyu> i'm logging in
[01:44] <cllaudyu> hopefully finding a way
[01:44] <cllaudyu> to add my mail
[01:45] <jspiro> cllaudyu: oops.  it is https://launchpad.net/~cllaudyu1987/+editemails
[01:45] <cllaudyu> it's allready there
[01:45] <cllaudyu> is not visible?
[01:45] <jspiro> cllaudyu: not visible.
[01:45] <cllaudyu> how to maki it
[01:45] <cllaudyu> visible?
[01:46] <jspiro> cllaudyu: go to https://launchpad.net/~cllaudyu1987/+edit
[01:46] <cllaudyu> i could add the same mail again?
[01:46] <jspiro> cllaudyu: at the bottom, remove the "X" from "Hide my email addresses from other Launchpad users"
[01:47] <cllaudyu> ok its done
[01:47] <cllaudyu> do you see it know?
[01:47] <jspiro> cllaudyu: yes, thank you.
[01:47] <cllaudyu> youre wellcome
[01:47] <jspiro> also, if you go to https://launchpad.net/~cllaudyu1987/+editircnicknames you can write your IRC nickname there.
[01:48] <cllaudyu> hope your not spamming
[01:48] <jspiro> cllaudyu: no, i am just making sure we can reach you through launchpad about the bug
[01:48] <cllaudyu> channel and server?
[01:48] <hggdh> jspiro, any comments in the bug will be mailed to cllaudyu
[01:48] <jspiro> hggdh: ah.
[01:48] <hggdh> automagically
[01:49] <cllaudyu> network
[01:49] <jspiro> cllaudyu: network is irc.freenode.net -- nickname is cllaudyu
[01:49] <cllaudyu> what netowrk is this
[01:49] <cllaudyu> aaaa thanks
[01:49] <cllaudyu> i have irc.ubuntu.com if im not mistakin
[01:50] <Pici> irc.ubuntu.com is a cname for irc.freenode.net
[01:50] <cllaudyu> aha
[01:51] <cllaudyu> how the weather in canada?
[01:52] <cllaudyu> it has all the fous seasons?
[01:52] <cllaudyu> four
[01:52] <cllaudyu> or is it just summer and winter
[01:52] <jspiro> cllaudyu: yes, all 4.
[01:52] <cllaudyu> nice
[01:53] <cllaudyu> then is similar to romania
[01:53] <jspiro> :) anyway, i must get back to the game i am writing.
[01:53] <cllaudyu> what game?
[01:54] <jspiro> cllaudyu: Political Table Tennis
[01:54] <cllaudyu> political?
[01:54] <cllaudyu> it sounds weird
[01:54] <jspiro> cllaudyu: really just Pong, with faces of famous presidents and prime ministers.
[01:54] <cllaudyu> aaa
[01:54] <cllaudyu> you are writing it or playing it?
[01:54] <jspiro> writing it.
[01:55] <cllaudyu> you create games
[01:55] <jspiro> sometimes.
[01:55] <cllaudyu> sometimes means like what?? :)
[01:55] <cllaudyu> i played some games
[01:55] <cllaudyu> flash games
[01:56] <jspiro> cllaudyu: every 3 years or so, I write a game.
[01:56] <cllaudyu> they'r very weird by their nature
[01:56] <cllaudyu> it's that long it tooks?
[01:56] <cllaudyu> and i'm keeping you out of work?
[01:57] <cllaudyu> sorry :)
[01:57] <cllaudyu> hmmm
[01:57] <jspiro> cllaudyu: no, you're not.  I am keeping myself from getting work done :)
[01:57] <jspiro> cllaudyu: but back to work now.  bye
[01:57] <cllaudyu> bye
[01:58] <jspiro> (I work at home, and am a student, so am not losing any money :) )
[01:58] <cllaudyu> nice
[01:59] <Awsoonn> anyone else haveing issues with teh wiki tonight
[01:59] <Awsoonn> as well as repos
[01:59] <Awsoonn> being slow/unresponsive that is
[02:01] <hggdh> Awsoonn, here it seems fine
[02:02] <hggdh> the wiki, I mean. for the repos, at least the US one was not bad
[02:02] <Awsoonn> hggdh: kk, thats what I get for living in northern Michigan....
[02:02] <hggdh> :-)
[02:03] <Awsoonn> when they say we have fiber at my ISP, I think they were refering the trees that surround their facility..
[02:03]  * hggdh is in Kentucky, this week
[02:03]  * Awsoonn wants to tap chicago at least once in his life.
[02:04] <Awsoonn> most people would go see teh sears tower and all that crap, Id just want to steal some bandwidth :D
[02:05] <greg-g> Awsoonn: all is good in South East Michigan, but, that is of course not the UP
[02:06] <Awsoonn> greg-g: T_T yea.... a beaver probably chew through our fiber ... AGAIN ( no joke )
[02:20] <lfaraone> Hey, istanbul and xvidcap both crash for me, know of any other good screencast utils for bugreporting purposes?
[02:27] <james_w> lfaraone: try gtk-recordmydesktop
[02:39] <jamesish> Hey folks. I am currently looking at my desktop system which appears to have had all of its groups deleted.
[02:40] <jamesish> This is either by a malicious unknown entity, or by me somehow. What's the best procedure for moving forwards with regards to writing a good bug report for this?
[02:41] <james_w> jamesish: /etc/group is empty?
[02:42] <jamesish> no, there are 3 groups in there
[02:42] <jamesish> root, nogroup and a local group I made called fuzz.
[02:43] <james_w> ouch
[02:43] <james_w> do you still have /etc/group-?
[02:43] <danbhfive> hmmm, were you using a group add command or something?
[02:43] <jamesish> No, not even close.
[02:44] <jamesish> I've been reading my auth.log, and at twenty after five I have a message that polkit-grant-helper granted authorisation for blah blah to some process
[02:44] <jamesish> then at 17:24:21, out of nowhere, there's about fifteen calls to groupdel
[02:45] <jamesish> hm
[02:45] <jamesish> 25 calls, maybe :P
[02:45] <jamesish> Lots.
[02:45] <jamesish> Then a bunch of calls changing groups' GIDs from whatever they were to 65534
[02:45] <jamesish> All at 17:24:49
[02:46] <jamesish> then more calls to groupdel, for the same groups that were remoed earlier.
[02:46] <jamesish> in between the changing of group ids and the second calls to groupdel there is changing of the www-data user's password.
[02:47] <jamesish> I'm not using apache or anything on this box, though.
[02:47] <james_w> jamesish: that sounds very suspicious to me
[02:47] <jamesish> Yeah, me too.
[02:47] <james_w> did you upgrade today?
[02:47] <jamesish> I did routine security upgrades for Intrepid.
[02:48] <james_w> at that time?
[02:48] <james_w> that would be a usual activity that may remove groups
[02:48] <jamesish> It would have had to have been at around nine am.
[02:48] <james_w> not like that, but still
[02:48] <james_w> ok
[02:48] <jamesish> Yeah, I don't think it's connected to that.
[02:49] <james_w> I assume it is recorded as root doing all the groupdel, etc?
[02:49] <jamesish> The nogroup GID is the one that all the groups were changed to.
[02:49] <jamesish> WEll, funny thing.
[02:49] <jamesish> I've not read many ubuntu authorisation logs
[02:49] <jamesish> but it doesn't seem to list a user for executing groupdel
[02:50] <jamesish> date time hostname groupdel[someNumbers]: remove group 'foo'
[02:50] <jamesish> each line follows that pattern
[02:51] <james_w> PID I think
[02:51] <james_w> have you checked other logs for around that time?
[02:51] <james_w> and have you run things like chkrootkit and the like?
[02:52] <james_w> do you have any suspicious processes running?
[02:52] <james_w> what network connections are active
[02:52] <jamesish> I yanked the machine out of the network as soon as I noticed something was up
[02:52] <jamesish> I have been looking in the other logs. Nothing odd stands out.
[02:53] <jamesish> I haven't run chkrootkit or anything
[02:53] <james_w> you might want to
[02:53] <jamesish> And processes looked very normal.
[02:54] <james_w> to be honest it doesn't sound like a bug at the moment, and the pattern doesn't sound too much like a bug
[02:54] <james_w> but I wouldn't rule it out
[02:54] <james_w> were you using your machine at that time?
[02:54] <jamesish> Yes, I was.
[02:55] <jamesish> I believe it's a security intrusion, which is a security bug in my eyes.
[02:55] <jamesish> But that's why I came here, to ask you folks about that ;)
[02:55] <lifeless> clearly, if you got hacked there was a security issue; only post mortem can tell you if that was due to a bug or misconfiguration
[02:58] <jamesish> I have two repositories which are non-standard; they're the skype repository and one for a program called moblock. There were no updates for either of them today, though.
[02:59] <jamesish> Beyond that, I run with defaults everywhere.
[02:59] <james_w> do you have an ssh server installed?
[03:00] <james_w> any services listening on the network at all?
[03:00] <jamesish> Yes, I believe so.
[03:00] <jamesish> There should be some, you're right.
[03:00] <jamesish> sshd, which was running on port 60022.
[03:01] <james_w> not likely to be a ssh password probe getting lucky then
[03:01] <jamesish> I was running a bittorrent client on something like 45123
[03:01] <james_w> unless they have started scanning ports first, but that's a lot of effort
[03:02] <james_w> you might like to jump on to #ubuntu-hardened, there may be someone there that knows for good places to look
[03:02] <james_w> though it's a small channel, so there may be no-one around
[03:03] <jamesish> Always worth a shot.
[03:05] <jamesish> Hm.
[03:05] <jamesish> Records show cron running update-motd hourly. BUt there's no update-motd script in /usr/bin, where it was looking.
[03:07] <james_w> odd
[03:07] <james_w> though I think that's a known bug that may be fixed
[03:08] <james_w> update-motd is a package in Ubuntu though, so it's unlikely to be malicious
[03:09] <jamesish> And to put something in /usr/bin to be executed with elevated privileges, you need to have root access in the first place. So it's not a huge security issue.
[03:13] <jamesish> I had just got my system how I wanted it, too.
[03:13] <jamesish> Buggers.
[03:15] <jamesish> What's very odd here is I'm not showing any traffic to anywhere or from my internal network to anywhere odd in my router logs.
[03:18] <james_w> does your router log all ports, or is a http log?
[04:44] <ausimage> I am trying to solve an audio problem with my ICH8 82801H audio device...
[04:45] <ausimage> I updated the kernel today and then had to fix virutal box... but now the audio device lost its alsa connection :/
[04:47] <ausimage> The new kernel is 2.6.27-7 and I have tried 2.6.25.2.3
[04:47] <ausimage> neither seem to get the audio back
[04:53]  * ausimage says to ping him if you have suggestions... 
[04:54]  * ausimage continues to stumble through fixing the issue
[06:14] <ausimage> I would be curious to know if there is more hd intel fallout from the kernel update...
[06:15] <ausimage> I am working on getting a copy of an earlier kernel...
[06:29] <ausimage>  /sbin/alsa: Warning: Processes using sound devices: 5700(mixer_applet2).
[06:29] <ausimage> Unloading ALSA sound driver modules: <snip> (failed: modules still loaded: snd-hda-intel snd-mixer-oss snd-pcm snd-timer snd-page-alloc).

[06:29]  * ausimage thought it looked interesting
[06:30] <ausimage> perhaps not :(
[06:40] <Rafik> ausimage: have checked bug #274995 ?
[06:41]  * ausimage will look at it... though it is strange that it happened after the kernel update
[06:42] <ausimage> Rafik the issue is that I am getting no sound....
[06:42] <ausimage> before the update all was fine
[06:45] <Rafik> ausimage: It was also the case for me. sound was find before update to RC. I got it fixed with the linked alsa-utils. It seems to be related to network-manager
[06:46] <Rafik> s/find/fine
[06:46] <ausimage> it was actually fine for more till tonight when the kernel recieved a security update
[06:46] <ausimage> *me
[06:53] <ausimage> rafik where is the link for alsa-utils.... ??
[06:54]  * ausimage is near his bedtime... and perhaps cannot see straight enough 
[06:54] <Rafik> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/274995/comments/59
[06:55] <Rafik> ausimage: i just had the security update notification
[06:55] <ausimage> be careful
[06:55] <ausimage> I think that is what borked my sound :/
[06:55] <Rafik> let's try :)
[06:56] <ausimage> Rafik the bad thing is I cannot go back to previous kernel at all
[06:56] <Rafik> I was checking out the changelog  : https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/linux/+changelog
[06:57] <Rafik> ausimage: you can't. it's an update of a same kernel version
[06:58] <ausimage> yeah... which means most likely a reinstall :(
[06:58] <ausimage>  ALSA: hda - Fix model for Dell Inspiron 1525  ;)
[06:59] <Rafik> ausimage: have you looked at : https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SoundTroubleshooting ?
[06:59] <ausimage> mine is e520
[07:01] <ausimage> actually OSS does make noise... but alsa does not which is weird :/
[07:02] <ausimage> aplay: device_list:215: no soundcards found...
[07:02] <ausimage> BUT
[07:02] <persia> Might be that something has /dev/dsp blocked.  On one of my computers, I need to unload the OSS compatibility modules in order to make sound work.
[07:02] <ausimage> 00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 82801H (ICH8 Family) HD Audio Controller (rev 02)
[07:02] <ausimage> 	Subsystem: Dell Device 01dd
[07:02] <ausimage> 	Flags: fast devsel, IRQ 11
[07:02] <ausimage> 	Memory at dffdc000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]
[07:02] <ausimage> 	Capabilities: <access denied>
[07:02] <ausimage> 	Kernel modules: snd-hda-intel
[07:02] <ausimage> hmmm how does one do that?
[07:05] <persia> `for i in $(lsmod | cut -d\  -f1 | grep oss); do sudo modprobe -r $i; done`
[07:05] <ausimage> hmmm it seems to work after modprobed :/
[07:05] <persia> Note that this might not work for you, and you might need to reboot to get things back to where you where.
[07:07] <ausimage> Ok... I had to modprobe snd-hda-intel
[07:10] <persia> Interesting it didn't come up automatically.  Please reboot, and if it again doesn't appear, file a bug including the output of the sound troubleshooting shell script.
[07:11] <ausimage> where is that script?
[07:11] <persia> I thought it was linked from that wikipage.
[07:12]  * ausimage is well passed his bed time ;)
[07:13] <ausimage> ahhh http://alsa-project.org/alsa-info.sh ;)
[07:13] <persia> Ah, it's linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems : in the Reporting Sound Bugs section.
[07:13] <persia> Yep, that's it.
[07:13] <ausimage> thanks for the tips...
[07:13]  * ausimage needs his rest...
[07:14] <ausimage> will work on this after I get the OpenWeek logs up tomorrow :)
[07:40] <jpv950> the linux-backports-modules-2.6.27-7-generic package (verson 7.6 in proposed) completely broke my wireless card... I had to revert to 7.4 to get it back
[07:45] <persia> jpv950, Does your card not work with the regular modules?  If so, that's a bug worth reporting (even against -proposed).
[07:46] <jpv950> I get random hard locks
[07:47] <jpv950> the modules in the backports package seemed to fix it
[07:47] <jpv950> until the latest update in proposed
[09:50] <xteejx> Morning guys!
[09:51] <xteejx> Quick question: What is the quickest way to grab the version info for any program - i.e. the latest version and the installed version without having to open synaptic - as <blah> --version doesnt work with every package?
[09:53] <Hobbsee> xteejx: apt-cache policy <package>
[09:53] <Hobbsee> xteejx: or sequence of packages, as appropriate
[09:54] <xteejx> Hobbsee: Thanks! :)
[09:54] <Hobbsee> xteejx: you're welcome!
[09:56] <xteejx> Am I right in setting a few bugs to Incomplete if there isn't enough info on them and they haven't attached many log files? And if they are reproducible, if I can do it on my system then attach the logs myself?
[09:57] <xteejx> (And setting to Confirmed)
[09:57] <seb128> you should better try on your system before and not set those incomplete if you can trigger the issue
[09:58] <xteejx> seb128: Of course :) So check it first if I can do the same, Incomplete it if not and ask for their logs, and Complete if I can with my own if they haven't?
[09:58] <xteejx> Just read that back sounds confusing lol
[09:59] <seb128> confirmed if you can trigger the bug right
[09:59] <xteejx> seb128: Cool cool, thanks :)
[10:24] <azimout> 117 people in this channel. no one is doing the bug day?
[10:49] <xteejx> I am, but I'm useless lol
[10:50] <xteejx> Oh you mean the proper day thing on the Wiki, no just normal triage :)
[11:01] <wolfger> azimout: what do you mean "no one"? I'm doing it
[11:02] <wolfger> Haven't done it in a while because of the holiday and election and life in general, but you'll see me on that list if you look hard enough :-)
[11:14] <azimout> wolfger: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20081106 is still empty
[11:17] <thekorn> azimout: what about you starting to work on the list ;)
[11:19] <thekorn> or check the list again in a few hours, things might change until then
[11:24] <azimout> thekorn: don't mean to be argumentative, but i am trying to get people involved in bug triaging. what exactly was the purpose of your answers?
[11:31] <thekorn> azimout: sorry, no real purpose, doesnot menat to be argumentative either,
[11:31] <thekorn> maybe I will do some of them later today,
[11:32] <azimout> fair enough, no offense taken
[11:32] <thekorn> thanks for cheering for todays Hugday!
[11:32]  * thekorn hugs azimout 
[11:35] <azimout> :-)
[11:40] <seb128> hi hggdh
[11:41] <seb128> hggdh: would you be interested to do test packages for bug #293207 too?
[11:43] <xteejx> Question: You see on bug reports when you have for example: wrote on 2008-05-11: (permalink) Does that mean 5th November or 11th May? Stupid question I know but just want to make sure its May and not Nov.
[11:44] <hggdh> hi seb128, let me look at it
[11:47] <persia> xteejx, That would be May 11th.  Year-Month-Day.
[11:48] <xteejx> persia: Thanks :) thought so just didn't want to look stupid on reports, just do it here instead :D lol
[11:48] <hggdh> xteejx, it is YYYY-MM-DD
[11:49] <xteejx> thanks
[11:49] <xteejx> :)
[11:49] <persia> xteejx, Both are archived for general perusal by anyone later, but at least here, such a question is entirely on-topic :)
[11:50] <hggdh> seb128, I will put up a test package for it
[11:50] <xteejx> persia: True, at least I can wait a few weeks before being ridiculed then, but thanks :)
[11:51] <seb128> hggdh: thanks
[11:54] <hggdh> seb128, welcome
[11:55] <drunkenkilla> kann ich irgendwie gucken, mit welcher taktung mein arbeitsspeicher mom läuft?
[11:56] <persia> !de
[11:56] <drunkenkilla> sry i thought i am in the ubuntu-de channel^^
[11:56] <persia> No problem.  I only feared you might be lost :)
[11:57] <xteejx> ubottu speaks german?
[11:57] <xteejx> Shut up you :)
[11:58] <persia> xteejx, ubottu speaks a phrase note dissimilar to that above in nearly every language with an active Ubuntu community.
[11:59] <xteejx> persia, now that's clever, detecting an irregular language for the irc room and automatically telling people "wrong room"
[12:00] <lfaraone> james_w: thanks
[12:00] <persia> It's not that smart.  It relies on others to detect which language is being used.  See my hint above.
[12:05] <hggdh> seb128, should the test package be just for this fix? If so, it will replace the current one on my PPA
[12:19] <xteejx> persia: Oh yeah didnt see the command there
[12:27] <seb128> hggdh: not especially, you can add those changes to the one you have right now
[12:28] <hggdh> seb128, uploading the first, then
[12:28] <hggdh> (will take a while -- uploading from the hotel is sort of slow)
[12:50] <xteejx> Question: When do I get all my hugs. I haven't done any Bug-day bugs but have been confirming, incompleting and getting info for normal ones...where's my damn hugs?? :)
[13:01] <geser> bdmurray: do you agree that the "fix" for bug 293592 is to add "--keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com" to the gpg call in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash?
[13:38] <BUGabundo_work> good afternoon
[13:38] <BUGabundo_work> how is everyone?
[13:38] <BUGabundo_work> asac: ping
[13:38] <BUGabundo_work> asac: can you take a look at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6117302 ?
[13:42] <asac> bug 269071 bug 288703
[13:42] <BUGabundo_work> thanks
[13:42] <BUGabundo_work> I'll let the user know
[13:42] <asac> i am posting already
[13:43] <asac> BUGabundo_work: done
[13:44] <BUGabundo_work> ok!
[13:44] <BUGabundo_work> even better. lol
[13:44] <BUGabundo_work> did not know about that bug.
[13:45] <asac> upstream wanted to look at it ... i think its really dhcp lease stuff
[13:45] <asac> so i didnt take action yet. will ask if he still is looking into this for 0.7
[13:46] <BUGabundo_work> I used to experience something like that on gutsy
[13:47] <BUGabundo_work> asac: does this affect everyone or just some users?
[13:48] <BUGabundo_work> because I don't remember having this bug when we were debuging pptp
[13:54] <asac> BUGabundo_work: well. this bug is about that not all traffic goes over vpn after connected
[13:54] <asac> BUGabundo_work: i think you wanted to have traffic for  a certain subnet only to that net
[13:55] <asac> so you didnt see
[14:24] <ara> hola pedro_, can i make you a quick question about python-launchpad-bugs
[14:25] <seb128> ara: usually it's better to just ask on the channel so anybody can reply and if pedro is away he can reply to the question when he's back directly
[14:26] <ara> seb128: ;-)
[14:26] <ara> sure, will do that
[14:26] <pedro_> ara: hey, well thekorn is in the room and he probably know way better than me how python-launchpad-bugs works, but just ask in the channel in case somebody else knows
[14:27] <ara> thing is, that everytime I try to get the bug sourcepackage, I get this error:
[14:27] <ara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/68376/
[14:28] <seb128> ara: what do you run to get this error?
[14:29] <ara> http://paste.ubuntu.com/68380/
[14:29] <thekorn> ara: this is a know issue when using the text interface,
[14:30] <thekorn> and there seems to be no way to work around this on py-lp-bugs' side
[14:31] <thekorn> basically bug.info, bug.status, bug.importance and so on is not working correctly in text mode
[14:31] <ara> thekorn: thanks, I'll use the html interface
[14:31] <thekorn> ara: that's definitly the easiest solution
[14:31] <ara> thekorn: ;)
[14:32] <thekorn> ara: or use launchpadlib ;)
[14:33] <BUGabundo_work> asac: actually the idea is for trafic!
[14:33] <BUGabundo_work> humm I guess I need to subs that bug too
[15:04] <hggdh> seb128, the evo 2.4.1 change for bug 293207 did not apply cleanly (I guess it was written from trunk). I will have to look at it
[15:06] <seb128> hggdh: try asking srag he said he will use the change on the stable opensuse version
[15:11] <xteejx> What is the current kernel for Hardy?
[15:12] <Pici> !info linux hardy
[15:13] <xteejx> lol thanks pici :)
[16:13] <xteejx> Question: If a user is having problems with a package in 7.10, can we tell them to enable backports if we know it works in Intrepid? How does that work exactly?
[16:20] <xteejx> Anyone?
[16:21] <pwnguin> which package in Ubuntu but not Debian has 82 open bugs filed against it?
[16:22] <thekorn_> pwnguin, good question to ask james_w ;)
[16:22] <james_w> ccsm
[16:22] <asac> xteejx: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports
[16:22] <xteejx> asac: Thankyou
[16:22] <andrewski_work> I'm having a hard time finding how to report a bug for lists.ubuntu.com. Anyone happen to know?
[16:23] <seb128> james_w: there is no such source in intrepid
[16:23] <pwnguin> compizconfig settings manager is out of intrepid?
[16:24] <james_w> seb128: sorry, compizconfig-settings-manager
[16:24] <seb128> james_w: that one is in debian and name ccsm there
[16:24] <seb128> james_w: so that's not something which is not in debian, it's just named differently
[16:25] <pwnguin> does it sync/merge?
[16:25] <james_w> ah, ok
[16:26] <seb128> james_w: it likely has been packaged in ubuntu first and they used a different sourcename
[16:33] <pwnguin> seb128: so do we completely ignore the debian package?
[16:41] <seb128> pwnguin: dunno I never worked on this one, it likely requires somebody to look at if the debian version can be used in ubuntu
[16:59] <pwnguin> james_w: now that we've knocked one off the list, which package has 30 bugs and no debian upstream? ;)
[17:00] <james_w> pwnguin: well, I don't know if it's off the list, but ok
[17:00] <james_w> emerald
[17:01] <pwnguin> heh
[17:01] <james_w> should kill that this cycle I think
[17:01] <pwnguin> compiz is probably an outlier in the bugginess
[17:01] <persia> Last time we removed emerald, *lots* of users complained.
[17:01] <persia> MInd you, last I heard, emerald didn't actually work properly in Ubuntu, but that's apparently not sufficient deterrence.
[17:02] <james_w> then emacs-snapshot, xen-3.1, vm-builder, hubackup, xen-meta, penguintv, kdenlive
[17:02] <persia> emacs-snapshot is probably mixed up with Romain's application for per-source uploads.
[17:03] <james_w> "mixed up"?
[17:03] <persia> xen-3.1 sounds like an old version : I know there were a few xen-related packages that were intended to be dropped for intrepid, but didn't make the deadline,
[17:03] <persia> zul?
[17:03] <persia> james_w, Not being processed clearly because of delays and confusion.
[17:03] <persia> Didn't vm-builder get superceded by something?
[17:04]  * persia doesn't have any meta-information about hubackup, penguintv, or kdenlive
[17:18] <zul> xen-3.1 should be removed
[17:21] <persia> zul, And xen-meta?
[17:27] <pwnguin> penguinTV has an "unstable" 3.4 release
[17:27] <pwnguin> and a 3.6 mentioned on the homepage
[17:28] <pwnguin> so the project seems alive, just without attention
[17:37] <persia> That's unfortunately not uncommon for some ubuntu-local packages.  Some people package something until it works for them, upload, and forget about it.  It might be perfect when it was uploaded, but it may not age well.
[17:38] <persia> norsetto did an excellent session on updating packages for DeveloperWeek a couple months ago.  Might be a good package if someone wants to give it some attention.
[17:39] <pwnguin> maybe we should develop a threshold for dropping that kind of package
[17:39] <pwnguin> in hopes a sword of damocles motivating people
[17:42] <pwnguin> the debian orphan policy would at least be a starting point
[17:47] <zul> xen-meta should stay until its updated for jaunty
[17:56] <persia> zul, Do you need help with bug triage, or are you on top of it?
[17:57] <persia> pwnguin, Any package without rdepends can be removed with a bug.  Do you think it's buggy enough to drop?  File a removal bug, and subscribe the appropriate party.
[17:57] <pwnguin> really?
[17:57] <persia> Yep.
[17:57] <zul> persia: im generally on top of it
[17:57] <pwnguin> im not sure anything's buggy enough to drop, if it works
[17:57] <persia> Personally, I think it's better to try to get the packages up to date rather than drop them.
[17:58] <persia> zul, OK.  It was just #7 on james_w's list.
[17:58] <pwnguin> besides which, if there's a functioning upstream, it'd probably be better to contact users and upstream looking for volunteers
[17:58] <zul> which list is this?
[17:59] <pwnguin> list of buggy packages not in debian
[17:59] <pwnguin> persia: file a bug, subscribe the appropriate people, sure, but there should at least be a timeout for any call to action
[18:01] <persia> pwnguin, Well, the archive-admins tend to process removal bugs last, unless they're *really* obvious.  Sponsors tend to let them languish as well.  There's no official timeframe, but it can take anywhere from a couple weeks to 18 months for a removal bug to be processed, depending on the strength of the rationale.
[18:01] <pwnguin> heh
[18:02] <persia> e.g. if there's a licensing issue with redistribution, it can happen in a week or less.  If it's that it's orphaned upstream, and there are alternate tools available, it might take at least several months, if not in excess of a release cycle.
[18:04] <pwnguin> persia: well, i might give it a look-over, since I've been kinda looking for something closer to what it does, see if its worth my time to save
[18:05] <pwnguin> liferea is nice, but it handles enclosures... poorly
[18:05] <persia> pwnguin, See, there's usually someone like that for any app in need of help :)
[18:08] <pwnguin> But ive kinda got my own plate full
[18:08] <pwnguin> i was just notified two hours ago i have a new job
[18:08] <persia> No rush.  There's still time before the freezes start.
[18:08] <persia> Oh, congratulations!
[18:09] <pwnguin> it pays double what im making now, but probably half of what im worth ;)
[18:11] <persia> Concentrate on the first part then :)
[18:17] <BUGabundo> asac: ping
[18:17] <BUGabundo> asac: now that WPA/EAP is working so wellllllllll I have a new prob
[18:18] <BUGabundo> how do I make it NOT auto connect when using eth cable ?
[18:18] <BUGabundo> ROFL
[18:20] <afflux> BUGabundo: no offense meant, but this sounds like a #ubuntu issue
[18:20] <BUGabundo> naaa
[18:20] <BUGabundo> just nagging asac
[18:20] <afflux> heh
[18:20] <BUGabundo> he was finally able to make (most) of my connections work
[18:20] <BUGabundo> but is funny.... afflux who do why make wifi not connect?
[18:21]  * afflux has no idea about wifi.
[18:21] <BUGabundo> on NM 0.6 it was either one or the other
[18:21] <BUGabundo> now but connect!
[18:21] <pwnguin> network manager decided that was the way to go, it seems
[18:21] <pwnguin> i donno how it works either =(
[18:22] <BUGabundo> let me see if I turn wifi off on NM it won't taint my kernel again.. and I wonder if I'll be able to make it work again...
[18:22]  * BUGabundo starts tailing logs to append to LP in case of crash
[18:23] <BUGabundo> wish me luck
[18:24] <BUGabundo> can some one ping me to see if connecing is still Up?
[18:24] <BUGabundo> got it pwnguin
[18:24] <pwnguin> your lag keeps growing
[18:25]  * BUGabundo tries to be bold and will attempt to enable wifi again... that should make it crash... eheh
[18:26] <BUGabundo> YAY \o/
[18:26] <BUGabundo> it works as expected
[18:26] <BUGabundo> one more vitory to ibex
[18:26] <pwnguin> you expected it to crash...
[18:27] <BUGabundo> and if you keep ping me the all network will lag even more
[18:27] <BUGabundo> well, past experience proved it crashed
[18:27] <BUGabundo> so I needed to retest...
[18:27] <BUGabundo> tests done, and system is AOK
[18:27] <BUGabundo> thanks asac!!!!
[18:28] <BUGabundo> any ideas what does this mean on an wifi scan:
[18:28] <BUGabundo>  IE: Unknown: 00056564676172
[18:28] <BUGabundo> ??
[18:28]  * BUGabundo starts testing nm-pptp
[18:29]  * BUGabundo warns everyone that VPN will most probably send IRC down
[18:31] <BUGabundo> bahhh
[18:31] <BUGabundo> VPN still fails
[18:40] <BUGabundo> just updated bug 259168 with new logs of the fail
[18:40] <BUGabundo> pwnguin: see why I though wifi would crash?
[18:40] <BUGabundo> lol
[18:40] <BUGabundo> still not fixed.... but it was previous...
[18:49] <xteejx> God! Some bug reporter are real arrogant assholes. Do any of you guys ever get that?
[18:51] <pedro_> xteejx: all the time, welcome to the real world :-P
[18:51] <BUGabundo> all the time
[18:52] <BUGabundo> oh wait... I may be one of them... hope not...
[18:52] <BUGabundo> I try to do my best
[18:52] <BUGabundo> but by the end of the day.... I'm to tired to even reply to tickets...
[18:52] <pedro_> sometimes users are pretty pissed and tend to be a bit rude on reports..
[18:52] <BUGabundo> I'm sorry if I ofended anyone in the past, present or future
[18:53] <BUGabundo> yeah... they need to learn the value of community work
[18:53] <pedro_> indeed
[18:54] <BUGabundo> I learned it the hard way pedro_
[18:55] <pedro_> so yeah don't follow the game, try to educate them rather, everybody can have a bad day :-)
[18:55] <BUGabundo> I do volunteer work by giving free ubuntu and other FOSS apps classes
[18:55] <pedro_> nice!
[18:55] <BUGabundo> and even on free, non mandatory classes
[18:56] <BUGabundo> I would get students that wouldn't shut up for more than a minute...
[18:56] <BUGabundo> I learned there how I make my own teachers piss when I keep talking the entire time on clasess
[18:56] <BUGabundo> hehe
[19:30] <bdmurray> geser: I'd say yes and I've updated the wiki page
[19:33] <geser> bdmurray: thanks
[19:36] <angusthefuzz> anyone know how i could grep all of ubuntu's documentation? referring to bug # 294348 which has interested me.
[19:37] <angusthefuzz> bug #294348
[19:42] <bdmurray> angusthefuzz: I'm looking at it
[19:43] <bdmurray> angusthefuzz: you might try http://people.ubuntu.com/~kirkland/search.html or manpages.ubuntu.com
[19:43] <angusthefuzz> bdmurray: i tried some specific googling (grep of the internet)
[19:44] <bdmurray> if you look at the man for install the mailing list address is mentioned
[19:44] <angusthefuzz> hmmm
[19:44] <bdmurray> However, I'm just speculating
[19:46] <angusthefuzz> i feel like its more likely that these were isolated incidents, considering the size of the ubuntu userbase, but those are some good resources
[19:56] <angusthefuzz> bdmurray: I believe that bug should be marked triaged and wishlist after my comment.
[20:00] <angusthefuzz> or maybe even wontfix since ubuntu doesnt write the manpage
[20:01] <persia> wontfix should be reserved for cases where it's just really never going to be fixed.
[20:01] <angusthefuzz> we could write their mailing list complaining about ubuntu users posting to their list because of their manpages
[20:01] <persia> Something like "thunderbird should include a MIDI sequencer".
[20:02] <pwnguin> wouldn't that be invalid?
[20:03] <persia> Well, perhaps, but consider the possibility of a less extreme example that we *know* isn't ever going to be fixed.
[20:05] <pwnguin> for example, anything serious in nv
[20:05] <persia> Well, in nvidia perhaps.  nv is presumably fixable.
[20:06] <pwnguin> except for the ones that ive reported that have been delined by upstream
[20:06] <pwnguin> rotation, for example
[20:07] <persia> angusthefuzz, I'd recommend keeping that as "Confirmed", and waiting for feedback from the reporter.  Depending on the response, it may be appropriate to patch the manpages.
[20:07] <angusthefuzz> persia: I wasnt aware that we could patch manpages, I thought they were meant to be standard across distro's
[20:07] <persia> pwnguin, RIght, but that's wontfix by upstream, which might result in wontfix by Ubuntu, but no reason to wontfix it ourselves without presenting it.
[20:08] <angusthefuzz> it seems like this is an upstream bug
[20:08] <pwnguin> persia: that wouldn't be very collaborative
[20:08] <angusthefuzz> oh, now i see what you are getting at persia
[20:09] <persia> angusthefuzz, It's debateable.  manpages are intended to be similar cross-distro.  On the other hand, annoying upstream is bad.  If upstrream requested we remove the "REPORTING BUGS" section from the coreutils manpages, it doesn't seem unreasonable to comply.
[20:09] <angusthefuzz> persia: that sounds reasonable, and actually it would affect many more packages than just coreutils
[20:10] <pwnguin> angusthefuzz: generally, you'd be best off asking upstream if they're annoyed by reports from users who don't also report to ubuntu itself
[20:10] <angusthefuzz> persia: many many manpages contain a reporting bugs section, should we wait for upstream to complain about those, or perhaps file a bug to do it in one shot
[20:10] <pwnguin> no reason to bother if they're either willing to do the work or haven't seen any problems
[20:10] <angusthefuzz> okay
[20:11] <angusthefuzz> as an offtopic comment, while people are here, I am unable to assign a bug to the package amarok-kde4 even though it exists in launchpad
[20:11] <angusthefuzz> anyone have any ideas
[20:11] <persia> Yeah.  Most upstreams are only likely to get bugs about their own packages.  `man install` is just an especially awkward case.
[20:12] <angusthefuzz> yeah it is persia
[20:28]  * cllaudyu hello
[20:35]  * quadrispro is away: Away
[21:18] <wolfger> azimout: it doesn't look empty to me... what are you wanting me to do?
[21:27] <hggdh> angusthefuzz, indeed, the core-utils mailist has been receiving emails re. ubuntu. I have tried to look at how they got there, and found nothing.
[21:27] <hggdh> angusthefuzz, the standard response sent out asks how they got to the c-u, but we never received a response
[21:29] <bdmurray> hggdh: are you subscribed to that list?
[21:29] <hggdh> yes
[21:29] <bdmurray> Is it just the 4 or 5 mentioned in the bug?
[21:29] <hggdh> no, there are more.
[21:31] <hggdh> just today, two requests, from the same person (one was "Aide sur Linux", the other "aide sur Ubuntu"
[21:31] <bdmurray> Hmm, I poked around some too and couldn't find anything pointing to that mailing list.
[21:32] <hggdh> neither could I... :-(
[21:32] <hggdh> but, somehow, they get there. And the questions are -- most of the times I remember -- completely unrelated to c-u (like dpkg was interrupted)
[21:33] <bdmurray> that's really strange
[21:33] <hggdh> another: "since I install ubuntu 8.04 I cannot connect to my lan"
[21:48] <hggdh> sometimes I think these users are just firing off to *all* email lists they can get hold of, hoping to get an answer from someone
[21:50] <persia> I suspect that the reference from things like "man install" probably help.  While there are requests for Ubuntu help in the most unlikely places, it's not usually several per day where they are off-topic.
[21:53] <hggdh> persia, it may be... but I shudder to think of we creating a delta for the man pages; also, this started heating up on the last few months on the c-u ML
[21:54] <hggdh> it is still some way of being "many per day", but it is starting to bother some
[21:54] <persia> Well, if I were writing the "patch", it would just be a single line of sed in debian/rules to trim out the "REPORTING BUGS" section of the pages, so not a lot of maintenance effort.
[21:55] <pwnguin> heh
[21:55] <pwnguin> "see REPORTING BUGS" section
[21:59] <joumetal> should bug 246505 be closed or not? it probably happened only in intrepid development version and has an easy workaround.
[22:04] <charlie-tca> joumetal: if it is still happening, it is still valid. Perhaps ask if it is still a problem in the final version?
[22:12] <bdmurray> I wonder how the mime database got in the state it did.
[22:17] <joumetal> It could be upgrading development version. For me messed files were related to google-earth.
[22:23] <bdmurray> joumetal: How did you determine that and could you update the bug with that information to see if that is what happened with the other reporter?
[22:35] <joumetal> bdmurray: Updated. I didn't find backup of mime database yet.
[23:42] <xteejx> Evening guys!
[23:42] <xteejx> Quick question: How do I find the kernel module for a failing wireless card? e.g. blah card?
[23:44] <bdmurray> xteejx: is the card in your system? do you the pci id for the card?
[23:45] <xteejx> No, its in a bug report :( Specifically the Dell Wireless 1470 Dual Band WLAN Mini-PCI Card
[23:45] <xteejx> I thought there'd be a way to search or something
[23:45] <bdmurray> I'm not certain how to find out the driver w/o the pci id
[23:46] <xteejx> What about googling for the windoze pci id would that make a difference at all?
[23:48] <xteejx> Dont worry i think its bcm43xx but how can I double check the hardware compatibility for said card against the bcm43xx?
[23:48] <jibel> xteejx: check the output of "sudo lspci -vvnn". At the bottom of the info about the card, there are 2 lines "Kernel driver in use" and "Kernel modules" that gives this information.
[23:49] <hggdh> xteejx, you cannot if you do not know the pciid
[23:50] <xteejx> hggdh: Ok no probs, after I manage to get that, then what? :)
[23:51] <hggdh> and, if I remember the Dell wlan cards, they re-brand the pciid...
[23:51] <xteejx> Hmm sounds likely, so their best option is to just continue using ndiswrapper for now until Dell shift on the closed source drivers?
[23:51] <hggdh> you look at the output of sudo lspci -vvnn, as jibel pointed out
[23:52] <xteejx> Ok hggdh :)
[23:52] <hggdh> when I tried a wlan card from Dell, it was a "pci" one -- but it appeared as a USB modem
[23:53] <hggdh> so it might be a good idea -- just in case -- to have a 'lsusb' output
[23:54] <jibel> xteejx:  Dell used to ship many different chipset with the name 1470 . Without the pciid or lspci or even lsusb if it's an external adapter you won't go very far.
[23:56] <xteejx> ok guys, well I've asked for the bare essentials, uname, cat /proc/version_signature, dmesg, and lspci -vvnn, so that should show it all up shouldn't it?
[23:59] <jibel> xteejx: Yes, that should.