[00:00] <xteejx> What do we do about reporters that *consistently* keep changing their own bugs to Confirmed status, even if there's not enough info and they have been asked nicely not to?
[00:03] <bdmurray> xteejx: is it one bug report or one bug reporter with multiple bugs?
[00:04] <angusthefuzz> hggdh: thanks for the further info on the core-utils problem, i was at dinner
[00:11] <xteejx> bdmurray: It's one reporter, specifically bug 212051, I know its "old" and I just feel like its not Complete enough, the reporter hasn't gone through the Debugging Procedures in gnome applets or sound debugging, and has not attached enough relevant files to be able to change it from Incomplete to Confirmed...if I'm wrong I apologise but I am new so forgive me. I'd appreciate if you'd look it over as a bug report - you know see if I'm
[00:11] <xteejx> Since the problem could be alsa, gnome mixer or kernel
[00:12] <ausimage> in regards to my bug #294859
[00:13] <ausimage> I have been working through it ...
[00:13] <ausimage> I have noticed changes between before and after doing my set of commands...
[00:14] <ausimage> the also-info file is different
[00:14] <ausimage> not sure if anyone know enough about them to determine if they are significant
[00:14] <ausimage> ??
[00:15] <bdmurray> xteejx: yes, it does seem rather incomplete.  However, I've heard that some bug reporters change the status during the triaging dialog to indicate that they've responded.  I've got to run now.
[00:15] <xteejx> OK cheers mate :)
[00:15] <bdmurray> So I wouldn't be overly concerned about it.
[00:17] <ausimage> the most significant being that... Converter: stream=0, chanel=0 is changed to stream=5, chanel=0 in several places...
[00:17] <ausimage> and then Subdevices: 1/1 becomes Subdevices: 0/1
[00:18]  * ausimage goes to append the files to his bug
[00:28] <ausimage> uh those changes are from not working to working ;)
[00:28] <hggdh> angusthefuzz, welcome
[02:02] <ausimage> does anyone have any suggestions to help with my bug #294859 ???
[06:55] <dholbach> good morning
[07:10] <thekorn> good morning
[07:17] <dholbach> hi thekorn, hi slomo
[07:20] <thekorn> hi dholbach
[08:10] <LimCore> will ubuntu one day support nvidia binary?
[08:10] <LimCore> without crashing each time
[08:20] <elmargol> LimCore: Ubuntu does support nvidia binary...
[08:20] <elmargol> LimCore: what card do you have?
[08:22] <LimCore> elmargol: it supports it indeed. But then reboots/crashes/hangs
[08:22] <LimCore> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/295034
[08:25] <elmargol> LimCore: you don't have a picture of the crashes desktop do you?
[08:25] <LimCore> elmargol: what do you mean?
[08:25] <BUGabundo_work> good morning everyone!
[08:25] <LimCore> I took picture of intell epicall crash, but that is separate bug
[08:26] <LimCore> (intell crash when running several opengl appls, on 8.10)
[08:26] <LimCore> but im interested in this bug above
[08:27] <elmargol> If you ask me there are 2 problems if you own a nvidia chip a) The drivers are crap. and b) the new chips 7x-9x are crap
[08:27] <elmargol> there are a ton of defect nvidia chips out there
[08:28] <LimCore> but crash when switching VT's seems to be probqably a software bug
[08:28] <elmargol> LimCore: if I don't underclock my chip it looks like that http://launchpadlibrarian.net/17844311/P1000269.JPG <-
[08:28] <LimCore> elmargol: then what linux users are supposed to buy? snail slow intells (crash anyway),  ati (isn't the support even worse) or what
[08:29] <LimCore> elmargol: I had problem of overheating card previously
[08:29] <elmargol> LimCore: i think there is a bug in the nvidia driver... the fan starts too late
[08:29] <LimCore> but since this happens almost always exactyl when switching desktops, and the problem is a crash of X session, there fore this is for 90% a software bug
[08:30] <LimCore> ubuntu really is annoying about this
[08:30] <LimCore> ubuntu.org should create one certified ubuntu box that ALWAYS WORK
[08:30] <LimCore> and I would buyt it
[08:30] <LimCore> not waste time on producing stamps tshirst and stuff, that are less important
[08:30] <elmargol> LimCore: Full ACK.
[08:30] <elmargol> LimCore: did you try to disable composite?
[08:31] <LimCore> howto?
[08:31] <elmargol> LimCore: turn of the desktop effects
[08:31] <LimCore> I do not use them
[08:31] <LimCore> in either desktop.  btw both are kde
[08:32] <elmargol> Ubuntu should sell certificated laptops and desktops...
[08:32] <LimCore> I could be resaler for poland \o/
[08:32] <LimCore> it was even in my business plan lol
[08:33] <LimCore> anyway, this bug seems to be software
[08:33] <LimCore> so.. what to do.
[08:33] <elmargol> Get Dell or someone as a sponsor. give the same hardware to every Ubuntu Developer... Develope the new version on this hardware... and if you release sell the exact same hardware
[08:33] <LimCore> especially the X server error described at end
[08:33] <elmargol> thats the way to go.
[08:34] <LimCore> elmargol: pm?
[08:35] <seb128> there is some certified hardware listed on the website
[08:35] <seb128> just buy any of those
[08:35] <LimCore> seb128: that is crap imho
[08:35] <LimCore> seb128: either do it all the way, or don't do it
[08:35] <seb128> hum, that's not a way to talk there
[08:35] <seb128> I was just pointing something
[08:36] <LimCore> ok, that is a good first step.  but everyone seemed to stop there
[08:36] <seb128> what else do you expect?
[08:36] <LimCore> like the problem with ALSA hardware table. look at it. it is by nerds for nerds
[08:36] <seb128> canonical certify ubuntu on some hardware
[08:36] <seb128> no, the certified hardware has been certified by canonical
[08:36] <elmargol> Notes: Hibernation and suspend In order to hibernate or suspend, it is necessary to switch to another terminal such as tty1 using the ctrl-alt-f1 key combination. Then, after logging in, entering the command pm-hibernate or pm-suspend to hibernate or suspend respectively.
[08:36] <seb128> that's not a community thing
[08:36] <elmargol> and thats certificated
[08:36] <LimCore> seb128: a complete box
[08:37] <seb128> right
[08:37] <LimCore> not component
[08:37] <seb128> right
[08:37] <seb128> dell laptop models, etc
[08:37] <LimCore> like, I call 800-UBUNTU, choose 1 of 3 boxes, and when I get it delivered to my home, it will ALWAYS WORK
[08:37] <LimCore> without ****** around with problems like above
[08:37] <seb128> right
[08:37] <LimCore> :)
[08:37] <elmargol> seb128: Why do you certificate hardware that does not work?
[08:37] <seb128> that's what the certification is about, certify that ubuntu works correctly out of the box on those models
[08:38] <seb128> elmargol: what hardware is certified and doesn't work exactly?
[08:38] <elmargol> http://webapps.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/200810-884/ <-
[08:38] <LimCore> seb128: ok I am in poland, I want something aroudn  dual core 4800+ with good 3d gfx. where do I call to get it?  mut work always in ubuntu
[08:38] <LimCore> same question for laptop.  wifi must work 100% (including with aircrack, lol)
[08:38] <elmargol> LimCore: get a VistaPC
[08:38] <seb128> LimCore: no idea, I'm not selling hardware
[08:39] <seb128> look on the website and contact whatever vendor is listed
[08:39] <LimCore> _vista_ pc?
[08:39] <elmargol> LimCore: there is no hardware that gives decent 3d performance using Linux or BSD
[08:39] <LimCore> I have lots of software parts shops near me. I want a fully ready box that is as whole vertified
[08:40] <LimCore> nvidias work well about performance
[08:40] <LimCore> only, they crash when switching VT's
[08:40] <LimCore> it seems to be a software bug
[08:40] <LimCore> since they do not crash in other situation..  Seriously, perhaps we should look into my above bug report? :)
[08:40] <elmargol> LimCore: nvidia gives you about 1/3 less performance on linux
[08:41] <LimCore> -30% less is acceptable for me
[08:41] <elmargol> this channel is not for such discussions :D
[08:41] <LimCore> I can always buy 40% faste gfx.  I can not buy 40% less crashable one apparenly, especially if the bug is in Xorg imho. am I right
[08:42] <elmargol> LimCore: back to the topic. This is somehow related to your hardware. I have a nvidia card too and it works for me. what driver version are you using? Does it crash if you use the free drivers?
[08:43] <LimCore> elmargol: did you tried switching VT's a lot between 2 desktops?
[08:43] <LimCore> and using opengl
[08:43] <LimCore> especially, while using opengl
[08:43] <elmargol> LimCore: i use the 3d effects... so yes I'm using opengl
[09:33] <rapide> From CZEK ripublik? Help.
[09:43] <thekorn> bug 286424
[10:05] <elmargol> Someone knows a mailinglist where I can as a nvidia closed source driver question?
[10:06] <elmargol> ask
[10:09] <LimCore> perhaps nvidia's list for example
[10:12] <jibel> elmargol: http://forums.nvidia.com/ ?
[10:13] <elmargol> jibel: you never get an answer there
[10:13] <elmargol> I think i found the problem :D my gpu gets too hot :(
[10:14] <elmargol> guess I have to add some thermal paste to my gpu fan
[12:29] <jwendell> how to enable bug-buddy on intrepid?
[12:29] <jwendell> I guess ubuntu disables it
[12:31] <thekorn> jwendell: do you mean apport?
[12:31] <jwendell> no
[12:31] <jwendell> bug-buddy
[12:31] <thekorn> ok, don't know than
[14:01] <hggdh> hum. Is 'update-manager -d' supposed to be already working for Jaunty?
[14:01] <jjesse> is there anything really in jaunty to upgrade to?
[14:03] <persia> Most of the "upgrades" in jaunty are likely to break something today : best to at least wait until the first batch of builds is done, unless you *really* like being on the edge.
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> james_w - bug 294389 seems to be starting to accumule a fair few duplicates
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> i think you were the last uploader of this
[15:12] <james_w> hey chrisccoulson
[15:12] <james_w> thanks for the heads up
[15:12] <chrisccoulson> i can sort of reproduce it
[15:12] <james_w> oh, cool
[15:12] <james_w> we couldn't work out what it was
[15:13] <chrisccoulson> it seems that dbus wakes up system-tools-backends sometime between dpkg stopping it in the prerm script and then starting it again in the postinst script
[15:13] <james_w> because it uses bus activation?
[15:14] <chrisccoulson> i can do "sudo apt-get install --reinstall system-tools-backends" repeatedly without failure. but if i run the same command and then immediately run something like users-admin, then the init script fails
[15:14] <chrisccoulson> and that is pretty repeatable
[15:16] <james_w> it sounds like there is no need for it to even start?
[15:16] <james_w> if it's going to get started when needed then why bother explicitly starting it?
[15:16] <chrisccoulson> you could be right there.
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> you're right -it doesn't need starting at all
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> i just did "sudo invoke-rc.d system-tools-backends stop" and then ran users-admin. it started fine, along with s-t-b
[15:20] <james_w> was users-admin slow to start for you?
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> i didn't notice any difference
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> but then, i've ran it a few times now. i probably need to do a reboot to test it properly
[15:22] <xteejx> Hi guys, I'm having problems trying to sign the Code of Conduct, I can't upload my PGP key :( Can anyone help?
[15:24] <xteejx> No worries I got it :)
[15:26] <james_w> chrisccoulson: thanks for your investigation. seb's not online right now, I would like to discuss the issue with him.
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> no problem
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> i'll probably be online for most of the afternoon now
[15:26] <chrisccoulson> half days are great!
[15:37] <fuselage> Hi, I was going to report a bug in a package but I can't find the package. Could I get some help?
[15:39] <james_w> what package are you looking for?
[15:39] <fuselage> openprinting-ppds-pxlcolor-gestetner
[15:39] <fuselage> can't find it anywhere although it's installed on my system
[15:40] <fuselage> what I mean is that it's not listed in packages.ubuntu.com
[15:40] <Pici> What does apt-cache policy openprinting-ppds-pxlcolor-gestetner say?
[15:41] <xteejx> Hey guys, I've signed the Code of Conduct, done some triaging, and applied to Ubuntu Bug Control, what do I do now, just wait for confirmation (or not as case may be)?
[15:41] <james_w> xteejx: did you answer the questions?
[15:42] <james_w> fuselage: what's the bug?
[15:42] <xteejx> james_w: What questions?
[15:42] <james_w> xteejx: how did you apply?
[15:42] <fuselage> james_w: problem with the sources.list line
[15:43] <james_w> fuselage: I don't understand, could you elaborate?
[15:43] <fuselage> Pici: says installed: (none); candidate: (none); version table:
[15:43] <fuselage> Pici: apt-cache search apt-cache policy openprinting-ppds-pxlcolor-gestetner shows nothing
[15:43] <xteejx> james_w: Followed instructions on the Wiki, signed the code of Conduct, have read all the policies/debugging procedures before, but read again as a lil brush up, and clicked apply on "Join this team". Well that's what it said on the wiki anyway
[15:44] <fuselage> james_w: it appends deb http://www.openprinting.org/download/printdriver/debian/ lsb3.2 pxlcolor-Gestetner to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/jockey.list
[15:44] <fuselage> james_w: the Gestetner should be lowercase as to not cause a 404
[15:45] <james_w> xteejx: "Apply: to the Ubuntu Bug Control team and send the the Ubuntu Bug Control team application you will receive to ubuntu-bugcontrol AT lists.launchpad.net"
[15:45] <james_w> xteejx: those questions ^
[15:45] <james_w> fuselage: what makes you think that is a bug in that package?
[15:45] <xteejx> james_W: Oh I haven't received them yet, I assume its sent as an email?
[15:46] <james_w> xteejx: I believe so
[15:46] <james_w> xteejx: alternatively the application form is on the wiki page
[15:46] <fuselage> james_w: I presume the package created the incorrect deb line
[15:46] <xteejx> james_w: Ok no probs I'll wait then, or just send it anyway save them time with having to mess about sending it out :)
[15:50] <james_w> fuselage: I think that's a bug in jockey
[15:52] <james_w> fuselage: actually it might be a problem with openprinting.org's driver database
[15:52] <fuselage> james_w: ok, so how should I file it?
[15:55] <angusthefuzz> if someone can, bug #294901 should be marked low priority (or maybe medium)
[15:55] <xteejx> Should be low, its pretty trivial
[15:55] <angusthefuzz> but its a core application?
[15:56] <james_w> fuselage: give me a minute
[15:56] <xteejx> But its not "not functioning" at all, its a minor GUI problem, it might be able to be set at Medium, but it is only a search function, users can still browse to the network right?
[15:56] <xteejx> :)
[15:57] <angusthefuzz> thats true xteejx, I am still somewhat new at this, it seemed debatable to me
[15:58] <xteejx> angusthefuzz: So am I :) But there's kernel problems around, they're def more important than a minor-ish quirk :)
[15:58] <angusthefuzz> yes, relatively this is a really minor problem, but for the nautilus package itself it might be considered medium?
[15:59] <angusthefuzz> are we supposed to think of importance as global or package specific, if you know what i mean?
[15:59] <james_w> fuselage: please use "ubuntu-bug jockey" to file the bug
[15:59] <xteejx> bit of both :) lol
[15:59] <angusthefuzz> okay :-)
[16:00] <fuselage> james_w: thanks, I'll do that now
[16:00] <charlie-tca> xteejx, angusthefuzz : I think the key in LOW: Ones that can be easily worked around
[16:00] <xteejx> angusthefuzz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Status might give some insight into the bug control
[16:01] <charlie-tca> I will go ahead and change it, angusthefuzz
[16:01] <xteejx> YES! I was right mwahaha :)
[16:01] <angusthefuzz> thanks charlie-tca
[16:01] <xteejx> Good to know I'm actually learning this stuff :D
[16:01] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: I have read the status/importance wiki
[16:01] <charlie-tca> xteejx: should be using https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
[16:01] <charlie-tca> to determine importance
[16:01] <xteejx> Did i paste the wrong link oops
[16:01] <charlie-tca> I found both arguments valid.
[16:02] <angusthefuzz> yeah, i initially thought low, just thought i would use this bug to learn something interesting
[16:02] <angusthefuzz> thanks charlie-tca
[16:02] <hggdh> angusthefuzz, xteejx, the importance is a mix. A minor inconven ience is usually a LOW
[16:02] <charlie-tca> You are welcome. no problem.
[16:02] <xteejx> So its LOW if its minor GUI problem, unless they actually cant get onto the network then medium?
[16:03] <xteejx> This is like school, the big guys teachin the lil guys hehe :)
[16:03] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: maybe even high if they cant get into network at all, since nautilus is a core application and thats pretty major
[16:03] <xteejx> True
[16:03] <hggdh> we have to estimate the impact: for example, how many users are affect? how frequent is this type of usage?
[16:04] <hggdh> nautilus is a core, yes, but I -- for example -- *never* looked at network FSs via Nautilus
[16:04] <xteejx> hggdh: Thats what I thought, but if it was a final release and it was missed, everyone's downloading that exact same ISO, problem is everywhere, then severe i guess?
[16:04] <xteejx> me neither
[16:05] <xteejx> I cant even get Ubuntu to work on my laptop, but I'm still here helping out (or trying) - I got it running in VirtualBox seemed a sensible solution :)
[16:05] <hggdh> xteejx, no, not really: how frequently is this used? Does this impact a sizeable portion of the users?
[16:05] <hggdh> there are MANY bugs on any new release -- those we already know about, and those we are still to find
[16:06] <hggdh> this is a fix that *might* be considered for Intrepid, but... I personally doubt
[16:06] <hggdh> (a) it is not (so far) a security issue; (b) does not seem to impact many users
[16:06] <xteejx> hggsh: I get ya, so it depends on how many users are likely to run into the problem, how badly it will affect them, and if there is currently a way round it (browsing the folders)
[16:06] <hggdh> correct
[16:07] <hggdh> if there *is* a workaround, then we should describe it in the bug description
[16:07] <angusthefuzz> i guess i didnt recognize that browsing the folders is a workaround
[16:07] <xteejx> hggdh: Cool, just wanted to clarify what was on the wiki
[16:07] <hggdh> see, for example, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Description
[16:08] <hggdh> on how to add the workaround information
[16:08] <xteejx> angus: It's not exactly a workaround as such, but if you can browse the network folders instead of using the search facility, its not exactly a no-way-out situation :)
[16:09] <xteejx> But yeah as obvious as it is, maybe it should be put on the bug report until and if it gets fixed
[16:09] <charlie-tca> xteejx: it is a workaround to switch first to the directory you want to search
[16:09] <pedro_> that's a known bug anyways
[16:09] <pedro_> bug 42889
[16:09] <pedro_> it's a wishlist nautilus doesn't support search on vfs yet
[16:09] <hggdh> BTW, on Nautilus, there is bug 182345 that is more bothersome that this one
[16:09] <xteejx> Sorry I thought it was pretty obvious lol :)
[16:09] <pedro_> feel free to mark it as duplicate of the one i've pointed you
[16:10] <angusthefuzz> pedro_: will do
[16:10] <pedro_> angusthefuzz: rock, thanks for helping ;-)
[16:10] <hggdh> and still no solution... we will have (eventually) to cherry-pick the upstream fix and add it to nautilus-actions (or drop n-a, since it is currently unmaintained)
[16:10] <xteejx> Anyway guys I'm off out now so see ya all later, ps thanks for clearing things up, should help with Bug Control if/when I get allowed on :)
[16:10] <hggdh> cheers
[16:16] <james_w> hey seb128, chrisccoulson has a theory about why system-tools-backends sometimes fails to install
[16:16] <seb128> hello james_w
[16:16] <seb128> oh?
[16:17] <james_w> seb128: if something accesses s-t-b after it was stopped by the prerm, and before it is started again system bus activiation will mean that the daemon is running when it comes to start it later
[16:18] <seb128> hum
[16:18] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128. i can reliably recreate the problem by doing "sudo apt-get install --reinstall system-tools-backends" and then immediately run something like users-admin. if i do this, then it fails every time
[16:18] <seb128> how likely is it that many users do run an application using it in this timeframe?
[16:19] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[16:19] <chrisccoulson> i'd say pretty unlikely unless there is another mechanism causing it to start again
[16:19] <seb128> and the service is a system one or an user one?
[16:19] <james_w> system one
[16:19] <seb128> and running an user application system activate it?
[16:20] <james_w> apparently so
[16:20] <chrisccoulson> thats right i think. i can stop system-tools-backends, and then run any application that relies on it and it gets started automatically again by dbus
[16:21] <seb128> I guess the init script should just be dropped if system activation is used
[16:21] <james_w> yeah, that was my question
[16:21] <seb128> I though we did that already in fact when upstream started using dbus activation
[16:21] <james_w> even if it's not causing these bugs then it sounds sensible anyway
[16:22] <seb128> right
[16:22] <james_w> yeah, I thought we had as well, but I can't find a changelog entry.
[16:22] <seb128> better would be able to replace s-t-b and g-s-t
[16:22] <seb128> the design is too complex for what it has to do
[16:22] <james_w> indeed
[16:22] <seb128> it's not maintained, written in perl, etc
[16:22] <james_w> I enquired the other day whether there was any progress on the proposed new user management tool, but there is zero code so far
[16:23] <chrisccoulson> is there anything else already that can just replace it?
[16:23] <seb128> no
[16:23] <chrisccoulson> ah
[16:23] <seb128> we would have replaced it already otherwise
[16:23] <seb128> we did replace most of the other g-s-t tools already
[16:23] <chrisccoulson> what do kde users use?
[16:24] <chrisccoulson> i'm not familiar with it
[16:24] <seb128> not a GTK or GNOME application ;-)
[16:24] <chrisccoulson> i meant as the backend though;)
[16:24] <seb128> it would be easier to work on the new user admin tool that trying to adapt their tools to GNOME
[16:25] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i agree
[17:57] <xteejx> Hey everyone.
[17:58] <xteejx> Can one of the more knowlegable than me (everyone lol) guys do me a big favour please and check what I've done with bug 214917? I just want to know how I did with it, I'm not on bug control yet so I can't change importance, but I'd appreciate a quick lil feedback if you wouldn't mind :) thankyou
[18:05] <xteejx> Would anyone just mind having a very quick look at the above for me please, I just want to know if I've done OK, if I've missed anything that's all :)
[18:05] <xteejx> I'd appreciate it
[18:07] <persia> Hrm.  I'm surprised it's beneficial to assign to the kernel team, as it's against the kernel, but that's not important, as it seems to follow the kernel guidelines.
[18:07] <xteejx> persia: I don't get you sorry
[18:07] <persia> Best to ask for Importance changes or other meta-stuff here, rather than in bug reports, as it's not interesting to the reporter, the developer, or other affected users.
[18:08] <xteejx> persia: Oh right ok, I'll remember for next time :)
[18:08] <persia> As a general rule, bugs should only be assigned to oneself, to someone who requested the assignment, or to someone who one can tell what to do (e.g. someone one employs).  The kernel seems to be different, but I don't know why.
[18:09] <xteejx> persia: So for the kernel we can assign it to them? And everything else just leave it?
[18:10] <persia> Don't trust me on this.  In general, don't assign bugs.  Review the guidelines for bug triage for special packages.  Where they call for bug assignment, those are exceptions to the general rule.
[18:10] <persia> Those pages change over time, so my memory of what I read once is not as reliable as the current state of the wiki.
[18:10] <xteejx> persia: Pretty sure the wiki says to asign it to them. It's cool though. Thanks persia :) Much appreicated
[18:11] <savvas0> Is it normal that hwclock and date commands show the same time? should hwclock be in UTC or match the local timezone? (I have only Ubuntu installed)
[18:12] <persia> To me it looks like Larry Finger already mostly triaged it for 8.10 although your request for information may be helpful..  It really needs someone on the kernel team to inspect the module loading, and either make it just work, or have ndiswrapper override the b44 module somehow, but that's not something that can be done easily in the bug log.
[18:14] <persia> savvas0, I think hwclock defaults to --localtime, which doesn't mean your HW clock isn't in UTC.
[18:15] <savvas0> ah true, I just read it in the manual, missed it the first time :)
[18:22] <savvas0> BINGO! woohoo!
[18:22] <savvas0> er wrong channel :P
[18:22] <savvas0> [ * window :) ]
[18:22] <savvas0> I think I found the problem to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/43644
[18:23] <savvas0> a lot of files are the same in /usr/share/zoneinfo/
[18:26] <hggdh> savvas0, what do you mean?
[18:28] <savvas0> I'm not sure, but I think a lot of timezone files have the same md5sum and that probably affects the tz commands to retrieve the correct country
[18:29] <savvas0> in my case, time zone Europe/Belgrade is always shown in time-admin as "Europe/Sarajevo"
[18:30] <hggdh> well, a diff on both shows the files are identical -- ergo, same MD5
[18:32] <savvas0> I wonder if this is the actual issue
[18:33] <savvas0> I'll take a look at upstream gnome bugs
[19:56] <|clerum|> can someone check on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/254622 and make sure that it setup right. I added new information to a bug report that was marked incomplete.
[19:56] <|clerum|> and I want to amke sure that is is setup right so that someone will/can look at it
[19:59] <persia> It is.
[19:59] <persia> It's the changing from "Incomplete" to "New" that does that.
[19:59] <persia> This may change in the future, but for now, you've done the right thing.
[20:00] <|clerum|> ok. thanks. so now I just wait for someone to review it and ask for more info/debugs if needed?
[20:02] <persia> Well, that's the easy thing to do, but it might take a while.
[20:02] <persia> Depending on your interest or existing knowledge, you might want to investigate further, and see if you can determine the exact cause, etc.
[20:03] <|clerum|> unfortuantly I'm just a user not a devloper. thanks though
[20:03] <|clerum|> for your help
[20:04] <persia> No worries.  Mind you, figuring out a problem doesn't really require a developer, and some developers who write great code aren't so good at determining causes.
[20:05] <persia> With luck, someone will look at it soon, and understand the problem, and then someone else can provide a fix.
[20:09] <charlie-tca> bug 246177 ; can I have the reporter file this in gnumeric bugzilla ?
[20:09] <charlie-tca> It´s about adding to the documentation
[20:09] <joumetal> Does removing a duplicate mark need special permissions?
[20:10] <charlie-tca> If you are sure it is wrong, try it. It will either allow or disallow. Make sure it's wrong, though
[20:10] <joumetal> bug 294896
[20:11] <persia> charlie-tca, It's a judgement call.  There's clearly a benefit to having it filed upstream, as it's not a decision Ubuntu is likely to make.
[20:11] <persia> Whether you file it, or the reporter files it isn't so important.  Getting the two bugs linked for tracking would be useful.
[20:11] <charlie-tca> so file myself or have him, huh
[20:12] <charlie-tca> I think I'll handle it. It works better for me. Thanks
[20:12] <persia> When upstream fixes it, then LP can detect that it's fixed upstream, but not in Ubuntu, and add it to one of the harvest lists, which may encourage developer interest in pulling the patch.
[20:13] <persia> joumetal, No.  To remove the duplicate indicator, just use the mark as duplicate interface, and remove the bug number.
[20:13] <charlie-tca> joumetal: The way I read it, it should be left as a duplicate, since it just reworded the other report
[20:14] <charlie-tca> slow start/restart is slow start/restart, is it not?
[20:17] <joumetal> charlie-tca: reporter of "duplicate" disagree and I understand him. master bug hasn't enough information.
[20:18] <charlie-tca> Would adding his information to the master help get it all fixed?
[20:18] <persia> Improving the master is often the best course of action, unless they are clearly distinct issues.
[20:18] <charlie-tca> He said the delay in starting is different than a slowdown when starting. They are the same.
[20:46] <Marsjanin> Hello
[20:47] <Marsjanin> Is there a bug, or so, in a new Ubuntu? cron did not loads any programs that uses X-server.
[20:51] <joumetal> Marsjanin: maybe one of these? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cron
[20:52] <Jordan_U> Marsjanin: Could it be that you need to set the $DISPLAY variable?
[20:52] <Marsjanin> joumetal: It seems not.
[20:53] <Marsjanin> Jordan_U: Well then. It all works great in Ubuntu 7.10 and 8.04. I have lines like:
[20:53] <Marsjanin> (after datetime/stars)
[20:53] <Marsjanin> DISPLAY=":0.0" gedit
[20:54] <Marsjanin> Now some guy on #ubuntu suggest me that:
[20:54] <Marsjanin> export DISPLAY=:0 && gedit
[20:55] <Marsjanin> And none of that and neither various combination will not do the trick.
[20:55] <Jordan_U> Marsjanin: They do basically the same thing ( I assume you meant :0.0 the second time as well )
[20:55] <Jordan_U> Marsjanin: What is the output of "echo $DISPLAY" in a new terminal?
[20:57] <Marsjanin> No, somebody told ma that :0.0 evolves to :0, and the dquotes gone
[20:57] <Marsjanin> Already, I tried really various number of combinations
[20:57] <Marsjanin> Echo says :0.0
[20:59] <Marsjanin> And the important thing: cron works, simple echo "testtext" > test.txt works OK.
[21:21] <Marsjanin> So, no more ideas...?
[21:22] <Flare183> Marsjanin: Ideas on what?
[21:23] <Marsjanin> \o/ (new member)
[21:23] <Marsjanin> Cron did not load any X-server programs.
[21:23] <Flare183> Marsjanin: you mean your a new member?
[21:23] <Flare183> Marsjanin: Have you reported the bug?
[21:23] <Marsjanin> Nope :) I mean You, as new, as You didn't see what I wrote down. :)
[21:24] <Flare183> Marsjanin: Tell me bugs number and I will look into it for you
[21:24] <Flare183> oh ok
[21:24]  * Flare183 has been working with for 2+ years
[21:24] <Marsjanin> I've did no report for now, I think there could be sth wrong with my system.
[21:25] <Flare183> Marsjanin: Well post the problem on ubuntufourms.org
[21:26] <Marsjanin> All the crontab list works great inder 7.10 and 8.04; in 8.10 work only lines that not runs under X-server, e.g. wget or echo.
[21:26] <jibel> Marsjanin: or filing a question on the answer tracker could be an option too ( https://answers.launchpad.net/ )
[21:26] <Marsjanin> I already posted, for now, on Polish language (as my native) forum.ubuntu.pl and waiting...
[21:27] <brywilharris> Hi all
[21:27] <Flare183> Marsjanin: oh ok
[21:27] <Marsjanin> hi
[21:27] <Flare183> !hi brywilharris
[21:27] <Flare183> !hi | brywilharris
[21:27] <Flare183> oops hehe
[21:27] <Marsjanin> :)
[21:28] <Marsjanin> well, assuming: 30 * * * * DISPLAY=":0.0" gedit should work?
[21:31] <Marsjanin> I ask, because if it's not a bug of cron, there's no need to report it, and I rather should search for a bad setting on my machine...
[21:34] <Marsjanin> [yawn] I'll better go to /dev/bed. Thanks for attention.
[22:17] <ausimage> I am continuing to look at my Bug 294859....
[22:18] <ausimage> I am seeming to now get the same behavior on earlier kernels that did just work :/
[22:19] <ausimage> I checked processes out before and after my kludge to get sound working... the only difference is that pulseaudio and gconf-helper are not running
[22:20]  * ausimage goes and attempts to just kill pulseaudio instead messing with the sound modules
[22:25] <ausimage> AH-HAH it is pulse audio causing the problem :/
[23:40] <angusthefuzz> if I have a bug that I tested in a later version and the problem doesnt exist I am supposed to mark the bug "fix released"
[23:41] <xteejx> angusthefuzz: Yes if it works in the latest versin
[23:41] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: thanks :-)
[23:42] <xteejx> angusthefuzz: No probs :)
[23:42] <angusthefuzz> i am so glad you are always around xteejx
[23:43] <xteejx> angusthefuzz: you won't be saying that in a few weeks when I mess everything up :o) lol just kiddin
[23:43] <persia> Well, best to make sure that you can replicate in the earlier version and not in the later version, just in case it's something where you need special hardware, or a special combination of packages.
[23:44] <persia> For a long time there was a stellarium bug that kept getting opened and closed.  After a while we figured out it only happened for people with ATI R200 cards, and reassigned to the right package, and it got fixed.
[23:44] <angusthefuzz> persia: I verified in an virtualbox, it was bug #294823 in case either of you were interested
[23:44] <angusthefuzz> super low-hanging fruit
[23:45] <persia> angusthefuzz, Excellent.  It's the process of verification that concerned me.  Nice job.
[23:45] <xteejx> persia: I suppose everyone gets confused with things sometimes though don't they I sure as hell do!
[23:45] <angusthefuzz> thanks persia
[23:46] <xteejx> Damn I didn't know there were so many untouched bugs from Jan-April
[23:46] <persia> xteejx, Yep.  I just try to mention possible pitfalls when I see something that looks like a mistake I made in the past :)
[23:46] <xteejx> persia: Well I hope you'll be around for quite a while, cause I'm gonna need to pick your brains on some things down the road :)
[23:46] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: someday, if i can help it, there will be no homeless bugs
[23:47] <xteejx> angusthefuzz: Won't be possible, humans make the software there will *always* be a problem somewhere in the source code :)
[23:48] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: but the bugs dont have to be untouched and homeless
[23:48] <xteejx> Got to admit though we do a hell of a lot better than Microshaft at fixing things quickly
[23:48] <bdmurray> angusthefuzz: are you working on bugs without a package?
[23:48] <angusthefuzz> bdmurray: that is where i reside, all of my bugs have been there so far
[23:49] <xteejx> bdmurray: I am, but unless I'm 100% sure about what it is I'm not changing it, I thought it'd be best to ask for more info and logs etc, and hope I can work it out or someone else can? That's ok isn't it?
[23:49] <bdmurray> angusthefuzz: you might interested in http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/no-package-attachments.html
[23:49] <angusthefuzz> bdmurray: I found this page a while back: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/EasyTasks
[23:50] <bdmurray> xteejx: You might get more help if you change it to what you think the right package while you are triaging it.
[23:50] <angusthefuzz> bdmurray: i think your script is on that page as well
[23:51] <bdmurray> angusthefuzz: Ah, right it's listed there!
[23:51] <persia> angusthefuzz, To truly get to no-homeless-bugs, we need a fake package against which to assign all the needs-packaging bugs.
[23:51] <xteejx> bdmurray: So if its slightly wrong it's ok, as long as it point in the rough direction, right? Also I can't change importance yet, so I'm kinda limiting myself on the workload
[23:52] <angusthefuzz> anyway, some of the bugs on the list without any attachments are hilarious, its almost worthy of making a new site with the funny ones, bug #295317 for example
[23:52] <xteejx> wtf
[23:52]  * bdmurray looks
[23:52] <angusthefuzz> haha, those are the bugs i live for
[23:52] <xteejx> Blatently just come from Windows lmao
[23:53] <angusthefuzz> you guys should have seen how bug #292362 came titled
[23:53] <angusthefuzz> the reporter kept telling us the moon was flat
[23:54] <xteejx> I have some free server space actually guys, or maybe we could put a page on the Wiki? Take names out so they're not ridiculed and show the lighter side of development
[23:54] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: I definitely support that, i got a good list going
[23:54] <xteejx> bdmurray, are you still here mate?
[23:55] <xteejx> angusthefuzz: We're going off-topic now lol
[23:55] <bdmurray> yep
[23:55] <angusthefuzz> sorry, back to work
[23:55] <xteejx> Damn I cant copy + paste
[23:55] <bdmurray> I think it would be important to do it very tactfully as the information is public
[23:56] <xteejx> angusthefuzz: Don't over-do it :)
[23:56] <bdmurray> I mean that no matter how much you try to obscure it, it would be findable.
[23:56] <xteejx> bdmurray: Ah, but the bug reports are in the Public Domain anyway, so it wouldn't make a difference technically, but I don't think the users would see it like that...
[23:57] <bdmurray> It would be important to pick funny - silly not funny - stupid things.
[23:58] <angusthefuzz> yeah, i agree bdmurray, still it would be interesting, many of them turn out to be very legit.
[23:59] <xteejx> Also, sorry bdmurray but I think you missed what I said about 5 mins ago :) -- As long as the package is roughly right and points in the right kinda direction, its ok? Also I can't change the bug importances yet, so I can only go so far, don't think I can be trusted yet lol
[23:59] <bdmurray> I absolutely agree that it would be interesting and would show the lighter side of bug triaging.