[00:16] anybody there [00:17] Indeed [00:17] your wine session was good === Guest66012 is now known as parth === parth is now known as Guest88444 === Guest88444 is now known as punter === punter is now known as parth === parth is now known as Guest40481 === Guest40481 is now known as p === p is now known as parthbakshi === woody86_ is now known as woody86 [00:33] gde oni === Silvy is now known as Fierelin === Rafik_ is now known as Rafik === Rafik_ is now known as Rafik === woody86_ is now known as woody86 === riot_le_ is now known as riot_le [09:16] Hi everyone! Requires the server openvpn for multiple client connections (to link multiple offices), encrypted using the x509 in ubuntu. [09:16] Need detailed instructions. === andre___ is now known as andre === andre is now known as Guest15086 === Guest15086 is now known as andre__ === tictric is now known as ticoff === nizarus_ is now known as nizarus [14:30] * meborc is away: sauna-party + vana tallinn [14:40] meborc: when you return, can you disable the public away message? Thanks :) === Inteysedut is now known as Intey [15:00] * x_dimitri wonders why there's no session in progress [15:01] because it starts now :P [15:02] We will start in a few minutes! [15:02] * x_dimitri thanks jcastro [15:02] welcome everybody to another Ubuntu Open Week session! [15:03] Who's here for "Fixing a bug in Ubuntu - it's easier than you think"? Raise your hands! :) === jcastro_ is now known as jcastro [15:03] o/ [15:03] * brobostigon raises his hand [15:03] * homy raises hand [15:03] * lordnoid raises hand too. [15:04] ah... let me please know which version of Ubuntu you're running :) [15:04] 7.10 powerpc [15:04] * x_dimitri raises both hands... [15:04] intrepid amd64 [15:04] * xander21c 8,10 [15:04] ubuntu 8.10 and xubuntu 8.04 :)_ [15:04] hardy [15:05] intrepid, mostly "listening" though [15:05] * joumetal is trying jaunty now. [15:05] ubuntu 8.04 [15:05] alright - let's get cracking then [15:05] please install the following packages first, we're going to need them: [15:05] dpatch fakeroot devscripts pbuilder debhelper [15:06] ok... we all want to fix Ubuntu bugs, but first we need to find a few that are probably going to be easy to fix :) [15:07] we have a tool called 'Harvest' for that [15:07] Harvest itself does not know much about bugs or packages or distros, it's just designed to find "low hanging fruit" [15:07] you can find it at http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest [15:07] QUESTION: Do I need to be on ubuntu machine for this session? I can ssh into one only. enough? [15:07] CuriousMe: that should be good enough [15:08] I selected a few bugs already, but while I talk a bit more about bugs and fixing them, please do the following (it will take some time to run in the background): [15:08] create a file called ~/.pbuilderrc [15:08] and put [15:08] COMPONENTS="main universe multiverse restricted" [15:08] into it [15:09] if you installed the files I mentioned above, you should now only have to run [15:09] sudo pbuilder create [15:09] to let pbuilder do the hard work of setting up a minimal environment for safely building packages while we're doing something else [15:09] if you run into trouble, please say so on #ubuntu-classroom-chat [15:10] alright, let's first have a look at http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/handler.py?pkg=mwavem [15:10] + [15:10] harvest lists a one bugs (it's in two categories) for the mwavem package [15:11] so let's all click on the 152712 link [15:11] the bug was filed quite a while ago, it seems that something in the init script is wrong [15:12] when a bug is a bit older, I always first try to find out "was it fixed in the meantime?" [15:12] if you click on the "Overview" link at the top of the page, you will get an overview of the versions in all the Ubuntu releases [15:12] does anyone see a changelog entry on the Overview page that might have fixed the issue? [15:14] it's this line: [15:14] * Add LSB headers to initscript [15:14] in this case we don't need to do anything, just mention that it was fixed in intrepid/jaunty [15:15] so if somebody of you wants to close the bug with a friendly message, go ahead... :) [15:16] I checked the new package already, the typo the reporter mentioned is fixed there [15:16] let's take a look at this URL next: [15:16] http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/handler.py?pkg=telepathy-haze [15:16] it lists one bug that was resolved upstream already [15:16] a crasher bug [15:17] if you take a look at the last comment in the bug, somebody let us know that it was fixed in the 0.2.1 version of telepathy-haze [15:18] if you check the overview page, you will find out that the version made it into intrepid and jaunty too [15:18] anyone up for closing the bugs? :) [15:18] you might ask: "hang on, this was fixed in a new version of Ubuntu, but what about the old releases?" [15:18] does anybody have an answer? [15:19] It would have to be an SRU, no? [15:19] johnsgruber: exactly [15:19] SRU stands for Stable Release Updates === chuck_ is now known as zul [15:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates is the wiki page that explains the process for getting fixes into -updates [15:20] we're conservative on what we let into -updates, so if there's a severe problem and somebody finds a minimal fix (not a huge new version) to the problem, it will be considered [15:20] in the cases above, I'd say: if they're fixed in the new version, we should be good [15:23] sorry, replied in the wrong channel :) [15:23] QUESTION: Do SRU's apply to all of "main universe multiverse restricted" or just a subset? [15:23] johnsgruber: good question [15:23] we fix them for all sections of Ubuntu [15:23] it just needs to be justified, somebody needs to be willing to extract the minimal fix, then we upload it into -proposed and after sufficient testing (we don't want to add a regression to the fix) it gets into -updates [15:23] ok, I have another example: [15:23] http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/handler.py?pkg=pyglet [15:24] what do we do about this one? [15:25] any ideas? [15:25] check the upstream release against intrepid [15:26] ? [15:26] itnet7: did you take a look at the "pyglet overview page"? [15:26] you're right, that should be right place [15:26] upload (merge?) that package to develpment version? [15:26] assroom-chat [15:27] thekorn_: that was rude! :-) [15:27] if you click on the "Overview" link of the bug page, you will see that we have the new version in jaunty [15:27] Yes that is where I looked and noticed that jaunty is using the Newer release [15:27] sorry, the eeepc has a way to small keyboard ;) [15:27] itnet7: good work - can you close the bug? [15:28] does anybody know if there's a way we could still get the new pyglet version into intrepid? [15:28] dholbach: backports? [15:28] gta47b: Exactly! === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn [15:29] we have the -backports repositories for all current releases and this link explains how to request one: [15:29] https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports#How%20to%20request%20new%20packages [15:29] dholbach: I haven't really ever closed any bugs before... I would like to close it, but don't want to make a mistake :-P [15:30] itnet7: it's good to be careful [15:30] so if you click on the yellow bar saying "pyglet (Ubuntu)" it will let you change the status [15:31] if you choose friendly words explaining that the new version is in jaunty, but that backporting might be possible and link to the process documentation you should be good [15:31] QUESTION: Is there a list of requested backports ? [15:31] gta47b: good one... it's a good idea to check if the backport was already requested [15:32] gta47b: if you check the process page I linked to above, you will see links to the open backport requests for all current releases [15:32] alright... those were all very simple bugs where we could close them without much work [15:33] it just requires some detective work to find out "who has been working on that already?" [15:33] that detective work is what makes good bug fixers, packagers, maintainers and developers [15:34] you've been all very careful and asked good questions - that's great :-) [15:34] let's now come to a bit more complicated example [15:34] did the pbuilder setup work out alright for all of you? [15:35] hands up? :) [15:36] ^^__^^ [15:36] excellent... some people replied in -chat as well - let's crack on then :) [15:36] let's take a look at http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/handler.py?pkg=transmission [15:36] it lists a lot of bugs that were resolved-upstream and a few fedora patches [15:37] let's take 291205 as an example [15:37] you will see that the bug is "confirmed" in Ubuntu and that it's "fix released" in the upstream bug tracker [15:37] now click on "transmission-trac #1317" [15:37] it will take you to the upstream bug tracker [15:38] it says the bug is fixed and the milestone is 1.40 [15:38] if you investigate some more, you will see that neither Ubuntu nor Debian has that new version [15:38] so we're going to package it ourselves [15:38] first: try to make sure you have a line like this one in your /etc/apt/sources.list [15:38] deb-src http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid main restricted universe multiverse [15:39] replace "intrepid" with whatever you're running [15:39] run this afterwards [15:39] sudo apt-get update [15:39] now run [15:39] apt-get source transmission [15:39] this will download the current source package for transmission [15:41] now change into the directory that it created [15:41] (transmission-) [15:41]

QUESTION: am I the only one with transmission-trac 1153? [15:41] charlie-tca: which Launchpad bug were you on [15:41] ? [15:42] 291205 [15:42] charlie-tca: try https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/transmission/+bug/292929 [15:42] Launchpad bug 292929 in transmission "transmission 1.34 inhibits hibernation by default" [Undecided,Confirmed] [15:43] alright [15:43] if you check the contents of the directory, you will see a directory called "debian" in the source code [15:44] I can't go into too much detail here, I'll give out a few links about packaging later on, for now I'll just say: this directory contains all the changes that are necessary to make a package out of the source code [15:44] basically "make it build the Debian/Ubuntu way"? [15:44] cd . [15:44] what we'd normally do is the following: [15:44] - go to the homepage of the software developers of transmission [15:44] - download the new source code [15:45] - apply all the changes to the new version that were necessary for the old version [15:45] luckily we have tools to make that easier for us :) [15:46] please open ~/.bashrc (or the equivalent if you use another shell) in your favourite editor [15:46] and add something like the following to it: [15:46] export DEBFULLNAME='Daniel Holbach' [15:46] export DEBEMAIL='daniel.holbach@ubuntu.com' [15:46] save the file and run [15:46] source ~/.bashrc [15:46] (or restart your terminal) [15:46] that way the variables will be set in your session and the tools we're going to use now will pick them up [15:47] if you run [15:47] cat debian/watch [15:47] you will see one of the files in the debian directory that will make the process of "download the new version, unpack it, apply the changes, etc." a lot easier [15:48] please run [15:48] uscan --download [15:48] it will then check which new versions are available and get them for us [15:49] that worked out OK? [15:49] if you take a look at debian/changelog now, it will probably look somewhat like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/68884/ [15:50] the first thing we do is change "intrepid" to "jaunty" - we can't upload to intrepid anymore, because it's released already [15:51] the next thing, which is very important, but which we're going to skip because of time concerns is: explicitly list all the bugs that were fixed in Ubuntu with the new version in a format similar to this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/68885/ [15:52] the (LP: #12345678) syntax will then automatically close all the bugs when the package gets uploaded [15:52] QUESTION: if we want to package for jaunty, do we have to change the 'pbuilder create' then? [15:53] weboide: yes, if you want to be a good developer, you might even want to run the development release, so you can test things properly [15:53] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/UsingDevelopmentReleases has more information how you can do that in a sane and safe way [15:53] Question: When you close a bug with comments can you edit those comments to include further info if necessary? [15:54] itnet7: yes, good point: it's important to be very verbose in the changelog because the next developer who touches the package (we maintain everything as a big team) needs to know what you changed and why [15:54] OK, if you take a look at the debian/patches directory you will see a couple of patch files there [15:55] the people who worked on the package before needed to apply them apparently [15:55] 10_fix_crasher_from_upstream.dpatch is included in version 1.40b1 already, so we can delete it [15:55] make sure to remove it from debian/patches/00list as well [15:56] my changelog entry looks like this now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/68887/ [15:57] did that work our alright for everybody? [15:57] hi [15:58] oh, I just found another thing... it seems that since the last time the package was built, some library packages changed their name [15:58] gekki [15:58] *hello === Aeoris_ is now known as Aeoris [15:58] so please also change libcurl-dev to libcurl4-openssl-dev in debian/control [15:59] sorry, I just found it out now [15:59] then please run [15:59] debuild -S -us -uc [15:59] this will generate a new source package [15:59] now please run [15:59] hey dholbach, back on berlin? ;) [15:59] cd ..; sudo pbuilder build transmission_1.40b1-0ubuntu1.dsc [15:59] this will start the build process for the new version [16:00] I'm a bit sorry we had to rush through the whole process a bit quickly now [16:00] please all bookmark this one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted [16:00] because it links to all the necessary links (like the packaging guide, like the tutorial videos, etc) [16:01] and also to the SponsorshipProcess which explains how to get packages uploaded to Ubuntu [16:01] thanks a lot everybody - I hope you all had as much fun as I did! :) [16:01] thanks daniel! === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Current Session: Xubuntu | Prefix questions with "QUESTION:" | Stay on topic | Run 'date -u' in a terminal to find the UTC time [16:01] Now it's Xubuntu with cody-somerville! [16:01] make me proud! :-) [16:02] :) [16:02] Hello everyone! [16:02] hihou [16:03] hi [16:03] hello cody :] [16:03] For those of you who don't know, Xubuntu is an official derivitive of the Ubuntu project and is developed and maintained by members of the Ubuntu and Xubuntu community. In the recent months, the Xubuntu community of contributors has grown significantly. [16:04] For example, knome is responsible for our nice new website :) [16:04] o/ [16:04] Check it out: http://xubuntu.org/ [16:05] Another accomplishment in the last six months has been the adoptions of a Xubuntu strategy document. We intend to use this document to help us communicate our long term goals for Xubuntu. [16:05] From the document: "The goal of Xubuntu is to produce an easy to use distribution, based on Ubuntu, using Xfce as the graphical desktop, with a focus on integration, usability and performance, with a particular focus on low memory footprint. The integration in Xubuntu is at a configuration level, a toolkit level, and matching the underlying technology beneath the desktop in Ubuntu. Xubuntu will be built and developed as pa [16:05] rt of the wider Ubuntu community, based around the ideals and values of Ubuntu." === pengo_ is now known as newpengo [16:06] The latest release of Xubuntu provides a more polished experience over Hardy along with a number of new features such as the improved Network Manager 0.7. We had intended to ship the new Xfce 4.6 with Intrepid but unfortunately it was unavailable. Luckily, however, we do intend to provide the recently released Xfce 4.4.3 to Hardy and Intrepid users. [16:07] For Jaunty, I'm happy to report that a number of new and exciting features will be included - such as samba browsing, metadata and search within Thunar, Xfce 4.6, and of course less bugs! :) [16:09] Another goal for Jaunty is to improve and expand our community of artists and doc writers. For this, I'll give the floor to knome for the rest of the session to discuss how and why you should get involved in Xubuntu. :) [16:09] Ok, I'm Pasi Lallinaho and I'm the newly appointed Xubuntu Marketing Lead. [16:10] If you have any questions throughout the session, please feel free to ask them @ #ubuntu-classroom-chat, we'll answer them with Cody. [16:10] So, Xubuntu like Ubuntu consists of separate teams. [16:10] One is obviously developers, but there's a lot more to it. [16:11] - Documentation team, which is responsible for the Docs [16:11] - Web team, which keeps the website updated [16:11] A few more words about the web team now [16:12] We've recently appointed Vincent (vinnl) as the new Web team leader [16:12] He's put a *lot* work on the content of the new website lately [16:13] - Artwork team [16:13] The artwork team provides the artwork for the project, including the website, themes, wallpapers, ads... [16:13] We're currently quite short on artist, feel free to join us! [16:14] - Marketing team [16:14] The marketing team is relatively new in Xubuntu. [16:14] This idea was brought up when i joined the project. [16:15] The marketing teams controls and leads the overall branding and promotion [16:15] This includes for example soon to be released Artwork guidelines [16:16] These guidelines explain further what kind of artwork we want [16:16] For example, we have some keywords which should describe the looks of the artwork contributed to Xubuntu [16:17] They're goal is also to keep the artwork and brand consistent [16:17] *Their [16:18] The marketing team (me) works closely with the artwork team (me and a few more) and the web team (vinnl and me) [16:18] Without this close cooperation we couldn't have so nice website now - and released on time! [16:19] The marketing team is responsible for any other advertising we might want: T-shirts, stickers, maybe some giveaway CDs, screencasts... The sky is the limit! [16:19] That was about the teams of Xubuntu [16:20] Now I'd like to emphasize on the easyness to join Xubuntu [16:21] We're a relatively small project, and I can assure you we're very welcoming and warm community [16:21] It was really easy for me to jump in - only after a few months since I joined, we released the new website which was mostly my work [16:22] So you can get quite big part on the project when joining. [16:22] That means freedom and rights, but also responsibility. [16:23] Still I encourage you to join, if you like Xubuntu. We always need more people to help. Even if you didn't know what you could do, just join #xubuntu-devel and tell who you are and that you want to join and we'll make up something. [16:23] < homy1> QUESTION: Shouldn't Ubuntu itself be able to run on lower hardware specs instead of making a special Xubuntu for that? [16:24] Kind of yes and no. Xubuntu has Xfce as window manager and not Gnome, like Ubuntu has. [16:24] So that's already a big difference. Xubuntu is not only for old/low spec hardware, but also for people who want the most out of their PCs. [16:25] It's an another alternative. [16:25] < popey> QUESTION: I've seen a lot of comments recently about Xubuntu not being as lean and quick as people expect it might be. What is the Xubuntu team doing to rectify this (on top of anything which applies across all of the derivatives like kernel/upstart changes)? [16:25] :) [16:26] cody-somerville, want to answer? [16:26] Sure. [16:27] Xubuntu is not meant to run on legacy hardware. Its intended to run on lower powered machines. People expecting Xubuntu to run on 32mb of ram with a Pentium I simply misunderstand the objective of Xubuntu. However, performance is a concern of ours. [16:28] QUESTION: "maybe some giveaway CDs" - does that mean Xubuntu CDs from ShipIt? [16:28] As our team and pool of expertise grows, we'll continue to invest efforts into that objective while attempting to maintain a delicate balance. We want Xubuntu not only to be zippy but also usable and productive. [16:28] Ah, yes. shipit. [16:28] Unfortunately, there are no plans to ship Xubuntu via shipit at this time. [16:28] cody-somerville: if that's the case then perhaps https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LowEndSystemSupport needs changing - "Some systems with lower memory configurations will be more responsive without the extra eye candy provided by the Gnome interface. To install XFCE, a lightweight alternative to Gnome" [16:29] About the CD thingy: [16:29] popey, I think thats an accurate statement. :) [16:29] Offering CDs from ShipIt would have some serious costs. [16:30] We don't have the money for that. [16:31] [11:29] QUESTION: How much help does Xubuntu get from Canonical? [16:31] toros, We receive significant support and assistance from Canonical. [16:32] :) [16:32] True. [16:32] Any other questions? [16:35] Will you ship persistent USB sticks and the likes with xubuntu on em in the future? I'd need one @ work, alot of old PCs at that place.... [16:35] < gta47b> QUESTION: XUBUNTU = Ubuntu -GNOME -other heavy apps + light apps ...is that accurate ? [16:35] Ubuntu do so with flash drives, which basically are "too flashy" [16:36] Intey, A lot of old PCs can't boot from USB. However, you can use the new ubuntu tool to create a bootable usb. [16:36] Well it's broken for me and I fiolled a bug after folliwing the session yesterday )) [16:36] :) [16:37] gta47b, You're right. [16:37] lordnoid said on -chat that Firefox isn't lightweight. [16:37] That's also true, but we don't want to ship unready apps with Xubuntu either. [16:38] Sometimes we just have to make a choice between a not-so-lightweight and a yet-to-be-finished product. [16:38] < rzr> QUESTION: is today xubuntu more suitable than ubuntu than old distro for old computozors ? [16:39] rzr, can you clarify? [16:39] < toros> QUESTION: What's the main target group of Xubuntu? People with low spec hardware? Geeks, how want better performance? Netbook users? Or all of them? [16:39] It's a common misunderstanding that Xubuntu is only for old hardware. [16:40] "All of them" would be the best answer, though for example Netbook users there is the Netbook Remix. [16:41] As i said earlier, Xubuntu is an alternative for Ubuntu, just like Kubuntu is. [16:41] It might be faster, but everybody has to judge it theirselves. [16:41] < gta47b> QUESTION: Can the recent xubuntu run as well as win95 on the h/w that win95 runs well on ? [16:42] cody-somerville, can you? [16:42] I doubt it. [16:43] More questions? [16:44] < gta47b> QUESTION: Can you say use ubuntu on recent < 1 year old h/w, use Xubuntu on > x year old h/w, what would you say is "x" here ? [16:46] It would be tough for me to give an accurate number. However, I'd recommend 256mb of ram and atleast 500mhz for a decent experience. [16:46] However, Xubuntu can most certainly run on lower specs and does very well on higher specs. [16:46] < rzr> QUESTION: about computozors :) I meant I remember using debian potatoe w/ KDE on a 133 MHz 64MB , this will be probally impossible with today distros how comes ? [16:47] I think this is much the same as Cody said about the win95 machine. [16:47] Changes to core components have seen system requirements rise over the last decade. [16:47] Ok, any other questions about the Xubuntu community/teams? [16:48] Xubuntu will run on 133Mhz 64MB if you use the alternative cd but it'll be painful :) [16:48] I imagine debian potatoe with KDE on a 133mhz 64MB of ram was painful too - but not as pretty :) [16:49] lol people still use that kind of hardware? [16:50] cody-somerville: it was less painfull in my memories than using windows today :) [16:50] by offering a more lightweight distro, ain't there a danger of pushing the plain Ubuntu to a more demanding future? [16:51] There is always people who prefer Gnome over Xfce. [16:51] :) [16:51] Unfortunately that is all the time I have for today. [16:51] Yet again: it's your choice. [16:51] I'd encourage everyone to join us in #xubuntu-devel and to get involved! [16:51] Me too. See you there! [16:51] OK that sounded weird and almost harsh what I mean is on top of Xfce versus Gnome, they tend to add more and more Eye candy than fixing bugs in recent ubuntu versions [16:52] Xubuntu is easy to get involved with and there is lots of room to air your creativity :) [16:52] thx, cody-somerville! [16:52] and knome [16:52] My pleasure. [16:54] great job, cody-somerville and knome [16:54] Great job all Xubuntu developers and contributors! :) [16:55] See you at #xubuntu-devel [16:59] thanks guys! [16:59] o/ [16:59] * RainCT is waiting for jcastro to change the topic :) [16:59] * sebner winks RainCT :P === jcastro changed the topic of #ubuntu-classroom to: Current Session:REVU Q+A | Welcome to Openweek, questions in #ubuntu-classroom-chat please || Session details here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek [16:59] so, who's all here for the REVU session? [17:00] hiya RainCT [17:01] well, I'll suppose most people are shy but will talk later ;) [17:01] So, hi all. My name's Siegfried Gevatter. I'm a MOTU and the current REVU Coordinator (and Developer). [17:02] RainCT: Yes! [17:02] For those of you who are just hanging around and don't know what REVU (pronounced like "review") is, it is the web application that we use at Ubuntu to review new packages from other people for inclusion into Ubuntu. [17:02] So, people can just upload their packages there and eventually Ubuntu Developers will look at them and suggest improvements. The uploader should then submit new revisions doing the requested changes, and once a Developer things that the package candidate is good enough to enter universe/multiverse, he/she will "advocate it". [17:02] *thinks [17:02] Once a package has two advocates (and no negative comments for the last revision) the package will enter Ubuntu. [17:03] Ah, REVU can be found at: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com [17:03] If you look at REVU's start page, you'll see that there are currently a lot of packages pending review. This is because there are way more people submitting new packages than developers reviewing them, but also because the last cycle wasn't very good for REVU and packages have accumulated there. [17:03] We hope that this will improve this cycle, though (and are actively thinking of new strategies to make REVU work more efficient). So, if you have some package there waiting for review please be patient :). [17:04] By the way, today is "REVU Day" (a day on which many developers will give special importance to package reviewing), so if you have a package on REVU don't hesitate to join #ubuntu-motu and ask for someone to review it (and wait for a while there; it may take time for people to answer). [17:04] If you are wondering when the next REVU Day will be, there's going to be one every Friday in the coming months. Note that there's also a big announcement on the top-left corner of all REVU pages announcing when the next one will be (or if there's currently one running, like now). [17:04] Anyway, let's start with the Q&A. I hope for this to be an open and participative session, so let me hear your questions, and feel free to speak here instead of in -chat :). [17:05] How could we (as normal non-motu) help out reviewing the packages in REVU? [17:05] So if I would like a program to be included in official ubuntu universe, I'll start out with uploading it to REVU? [17:06] homy1: If you feel comfortable enough writting a package from scratch, yes. But first ensure that there's no one already working on it, neither on Ubuntu nor on Debian. [17:07] You can find packages which are being worked on at Debian here: http://www.debian.org/devel/wnpp/ [17:07] well, I'm sure it isn't worked on in debian.... [17:09] (For normal users who want to request a package but don't want to package it, you can file a needs-packaging bug as described on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages) [17:09] and for those who want to create on, there's information on it on the same page :) [17:09] Will every package be accepted for universe automatically if it is [17:10] * in a correct package format (ie. lintian checks etc ok) [17:10] * and qualifies for the licenses of universe? [17:10] homy1: (on your previous comment) Then it would be great if you work on it, but note that it can be a bit difficult to get it right if you haven't done any packaging before, so don't get easily frustrated :) [17:11] It's usually recommended that new contributors start by fixing bugs, working on syncs/merges, etc., but if you would like to start creating a package from scratch rather than that's perfectly fine, too [17:11] And no, no packages will be accepted "automatically". [17:12] As I said, they will be reviewed by MOTUs or Core Developers, and at least two of them have to be happy with the package quality [17:13] so it will be accepted if a) the licensing is correct, and b) you do everything necessary to get the package into good shape [17:14] (note that packages can be rejected if they are not considered worthwile for inclusion into Ubuntu, but this doesn't happen usually) [17:14] (in fact, I think I've never seen this :)) [17:16] Ah, if you decide to create a package then it's also important that you are happy to maintain it afterwards. There are currently many packages in Ubuntu with no one interested to look after them, so please do not "package and leave" :) [17:16] did this solve your question? [17:16] what happens with those orphaned packages? Are they eventually deleted? [17:17] Usually not, unless there's a reason for this (very buggy, obsolete and no longer useful, etc.). [17:17] QUESTION: Where can the "orphaned" packages checked out? [17:17] I think there's currently some discussion on creating a team to look after them [17:18] and get them into better shape (fix pending bugs, etc) [17:19] There's a pretty useful tool called "Ubuntu External Health Status" which does list some information on packages that are either not in Debian or in Debian but maintained by the "Debian QA Team" (ie, they haven't a real maintainer) [17:19] http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/uehs/ [17:19] QUESTION: Is there some website where the orphaned packages are listed? [17:20] This page is actually a pretty good start point if you want to get involved with packaging tasks [17:20] I've just answered that :). The UEHS page does list many such pages which have some problem, but I don't know of any list listing them absolutely all [17:22] Harvest (http://daniel.holba.ch/harvest/) is by the way also a quite useful page to find easy tasks, but it focuses on all sorts of packages. If you want more information about this check the logs of Daniel's session on "Fixing a bug in Ubuntu - it's easier than you think" [17:23] I'll answer woody86's question now, why I skipped before :P [17:23] < woody86> How could we (as normal non-motu) help out reviewing the packages in REVU? [17:23] This is actually a very good question (and a bit difficult to answer :)) [17:24] QUESTION: Can we upload packages built against jaunty on REVU yet? And is it possible to upload a package for both intrepid (for backports for example) and jaunty? [17:24] (weboide: I'll answer that after the current question) [17:24] np :) [17:25] If you have absolutely no packaging experience then there isn't really much you can do to help on REVU [17:25] Perhaps trying to install packages from there and verifying if they work correctly [17:25] which will be easier once I add the possibility to link REVU packages to PPAs (there's an "Import from PPA" option in the pipeline, btw) [17:26] but if you really want to help I'd suggest you to learn about packaging, which will allow you to do much more useful stuff [17:27] once you are confident with packaging, feel free to review packages and leave comments if you think you've found an issue [17:27] RainCT- sounds good, thanks :) [17:27] I'm being mentored right now, so hopefully I can help you guys out a little more really soon [17:28] I'm thinking about adding an option for UUC (Ubuntu Contributing Developers - people who have acquired Ubuntu membership through work on packages) to give "recommendations" on packages [17:28] (well, perhaps this isn't the best word) [17:30] I don't mean comments with this (which is already possible, and encouraged :)), but the possibility to reject/advocate a package, but instead of couting the rejection or moving the package to the "needs work" section this will just show a special sign to let MOTUs/Core Devs know that someone has looked at it [17:30] so if an UUC finds many obvious errors in a package he can recommend for it to be moved to "needs work" and a Developer can then do this [17:31] Oh, something I've forget before. If you have no packaging skills you can help verifying if a package is also being worked on in Debian, but this will be done by automatic tools somewhen soon [17:32] woody86: is this what you wanted to know? :) [17:32] any doubt related to this particular question? [17:33] I'll assume no then, feel free to ask later if you have a question. Now to weboide's question [17:33] < weboide> QUESTION: Can we upload packages built against jaunty on REVU yet? And is it possible to upload a package for both intrepid (for backports for example) and jaunty? [17:33] Yes, you *should* upload packages for Jaunty, but only for Jaunty. [17:34] If you want to get it backported later then it's helpeful to ensure that it works (eg, the dependencies aren't too high unnecessarily, etc.) [17:34] but there can't be two different versions of a package at the same time on REVU, and only packages against the current development release are accepted [17:35] so, first get it into Jaunty, and then you can request a backport of it the usual way [17:35] as explained on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports [17:36] Thank you RainCT i'll focus on jaunty then ;) [17:37] * RainCT waits for more questions :) [17:38] Question: What is planned for the future (features , changes for Developers and Users) besides those you already mentioned :) [17:38] RainCT- no, that cleared everything up! Thanks :) [17:38]