[00:00] <bdmurray> xteejx: roughly right is kind of vague.  Let's say you have a bug with someone's upgrade and you suspect it might be hardware.  I'd recommend setting the package to update-manager anyway as there are some knowledgable update-manager triagers who could help.  Does that clarify things?
[00:01] <xteejx> Definately, and it might just encourage more users to want to do it, for the _fun_ of it, and might even bring more people to Ubuntu, M$ has this office type look and directed at them users, Ubuntu doesn't have to be "geeks" anymore, its a laugh....if you get what I mean
[00:02] <xteejx> bdmurray: It does :) I meant...say if its I dunno...someones laptop screen flashes a lot, do I put it as kernel (linux) for possible acpi problems, etc...that kind of vagueness I meant :)
[00:02] <bdmurray> xteejx: In that case I'd leave it alone until you have more information
[00:04] <xteejx> bdmurray: Cool, just wanted to make sure. Also, I've applied to bug control any idea how long it takes for them to review the application, and do they look at my poor attempts at bug solving? lol
[00:04] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: see bug #295141 for example.  I just started working on it, and from the initial comments its impossible to tell what package it belongs to, even though i have a guess.
[00:05] <bdmurray> xteejx: The turn around time is 1 week.  Additionally, I don't see any specific example bugs in your application.
[00:06] <persia> Having the example bugs in the application is key to getting good comments from peers.
[00:06] <xteejx> bdmurray: Oh is it you who does it? Didn't realise, and also I didn't put any on there as I haven't done that many, I've just tried picking at bits of old ones, see if they're still valid and if so try pushing them through, you're perfectly welcome to look at my launchpad xteejx if you need to
[00:06] <xteejx> angusthefuzz: I'd be _thinking_ maybe xkb? How many points do I get? lol
[00:07] <persia> xteejx, Anyone in bug control can comment on the application, for or against.  If you add good bugs, it not only shows that you can triage, but that you can recognise good triage, which is helpful to show you're ready.
[00:07] <xteejx> Or the kernel possibly, I'd get more info I guess
[00:07] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: often hotkeys that dont turn off are kernel bugs, from what i have seen
[00:08] <bdmurray> xteejx: Additionally, we really want to know what Importance you'd give the bugs since that is something you'd be able to do as a part of the team.
[00:08] <persia> I remember one candidate who picked a poor set of bugs, and was rejected, and then reapplied a couple days later with a different set of bugs (all from before the first application), and was approved.
[00:08] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: but you are right, we need more information
[00:08] <xteejx> Damn, so I'm going to be denied straight away then on that basis that I haven't listed any.
[00:11] <persia> Well, you might get lucky that enough people know you and your work well enough to say enough good things in a week, but you might want to send a follow-up with a list of 5-7 bugs where you did an especially good job to improve your chances.
[00:11] <xteejx> It's no big deal anyway, I just thought it would help all of you out. I know you got shed loads to do as it is, and I'm online at least 8 hours a day :) But I really do want to help out, I love Ubuntu, I diss windows to my mates all the time but I guess I would :)
[00:12] <xteejx> persia: I haven't done enough really, I've just been clearing out old crunf to be honest
[00:13] <xteejx> I'm not sure if I had bug control a few years ago to be honest on my old account mcisbackuk, can anyone check that at all?
[00:13] <persia> You're mcisbackuk?  I remember you.  Just check launchpad.net/~mcisbackuk
[00:14] <xteejx> Yeah than
[00:14] <xteejx> *Yeah thats me persia :) Thought I remembered your name as well hehe
[00:14] <xteejx> persia: I must have deleted the account it's gone
[01:29] <zombuntu> anyone have suspend problems?
[01:29] <angusthefuzz> zombuntu: there are many bugs about suspend, did you have a particular question?
[01:31] <zombuntu> i used to use the proprietary driver but in 8.10 its not available cause of xorg 7.3 compatability. i was able to fix supend with that driver but not this new one
[01:31] <persia> Which proprietary driver?
[01:31] <maco> ati's or nvidia's?
[01:31] <zombuntu> nvidia
[01:32] <zombuntu> im thinking of going back to 8.04 lts
[01:33] <zombuntu> the new driver doesnt hand acceleration very good either
[01:35] <persia> Not much the Ubuntu devs can do about the nVidia driver.  If it's not working as well for you, 8.04 might be a good option for the short term.  I'd recommend subscribing to some of the outstanding bugs against the driver, just so you'll be notified when they close.
[01:36] <persia> nVidia provides some support in their forums, and being willing to test candidates there might be a faster route towards getting support working though.
[01:36] <zombuntu> suspend is an old issue. seems like they could've fixed it by now
[01:37] <zombuntu> i check launchpad: bugs
[01:37] <maco> it's not a bug ubuntu can fix
[01:38] <maco> because the bug is in nvidia's proprietary driver, meaning we have no access to the code to fix anything at all
[01:38] <persia> Yeah, well.  My nVidia card still overheats for no good reason, the drivers are still not -rt safe, and sometimes some people still get the screen-frozen-mouse-moves crash.  There's a lot of bits need chasing, and only a few people doing it (and I think they spend most of their time on getting new cards to work).
[01:38] <persia> If you're feeling particularly interested, you could try to convince nVidia that if they open the source, you'll help fix the bugs, but you'll have to mean it.
[01:39] <maco> persia: screen-frozen-but-mouse-moves....what's crashing in that case? i get that one with intel on occasion. though more often lately it's screen-frozen-and-mouse-too-but-caps-not-blink-so-maybe-not-panic
[01:39] <zombuntu> nvidia- get your stuff together
[01:39] <maco> yeah, thats about it
[01:39] <maco> we were all hoping ati's opening of their driver would force nvidia's hand a bit
[01:40] <zombuntu> hopefully it will sometime
[01:41] <persia> macd, I've stopped following that bug.  Was it bug #13977 ?  Anyway, from when I was following it, there were about 5 different reasons, but it was a hard kernel freeze and yet the video card was still operative and running the hardware mouse pointer.
[01:41] <persia> Nope.  I didn't remember correctly :)  13xxx anyway.
[01:41] <angusthefuzz> now there is a descriptive title
[01:41] <persia> The devs were chasing them, and hit most of them, so it's rare now.  These days when the kernel locks, the driver mostly shuts down the screen.
[01:42] <persia> angusthefuzz, well, it was enough to fix it :)
[01:42] <angusthefuzz> clearly persia
[01:43] <maco> hm, still need to figure out how to make the kernel stop locking then
[01:45] <persia> Ah, bug #13530.
[01:45] <persia> maco, kernel locks because it's in a code path inside the binary blob.
[01:46] <persia> That's a different issue.  If you want to chase it, install the debug version of the driver, and report the cryptic information from Xorg.0.log in the support forum.
[01:48] <persia> the Xids and Nids are sometimes enough that the developers can reproduce it, at which point it gets tracked internallly (and invisibly to us mortals) and a fixd might land sometime.
[04:13] <ScottK> bdmurray: When your around I've got a topic I'd like to discuss  with you.
[05:24]  * cllaudyu am revenit!
[11:39] <user1> hello
[11:39] <user1> I upgraded 8.04 -> 8.10   and it failed epically  when  by hand mounting iso image to a directory instead using a real cd...
[11:40] <user1> upgradecd program couldn't even unpack the installer because he had trouble deducing the cdname (using `pwd` helped)
[11:51] <BUGabundo> does any one know a dupe for https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vlc/+bug/295519 ?
[13:31] <ToHellWithGA> morning
[13:32] <ToHellWithGA> is a lack of options in "systemsettings", the package which controls system settings for kde (sound, mouse, keyboard, i18n, etc.) a good enough reason to find a bug?
[13:32] <ToHellWithGA> when the package "kcontrol" was installed for adjusting kde3 settings under gnome i was able to configure keyboard and mouse
[13:32] <ToHellWithGA> with "systemsettings" (with or without "kdebase") there is no option to adjust mouse settings
[13:33] <ToHellWithGA> .me leaves for a 5k charity walk/run (more walk than run for me) and returns later to check decision from bug-ubunteros
[13:33] <ToHellWithGA> cheers
[13:53] <xteejx> Hey guys, I've noticed a BIG inconsistency in the Wiki pages, a few pages say change bugs to Confirmed ifother users are having the same problem OR if there's enough logs and information that could help devs, some other pages say only when there's more than 1 user with the problem...which is right, as I've been using the 1st...I'm kinda stumped now as to which is correct??
[13:55] <arno_b> xteejx: I agree. I usually confirm when there is several guys that have the same problem (and if there is enough information)
[13:56] <xteejx> arno_b: Cool, it's just weird some wiki pages saying one thing, and others saying another
[13:58] <xteejx> Don't know if anyone is able to look into it at some point, as it might be confusing for new triagers? :) Just a thought
[14:00] <xteejx> Question: What is the reason bugs like bug 40306 is still set as "New"? I'm a little confused, as it's set as Wishlist, and its an oldie?
[14:04] <joumetal> xteejx: hmm seems that gnome-accessibility package exists now.
[14:06] <xteejx> That's what I thought, isn't most of this old stuff just old crunf that's been fixed since? I'm going to go through the really old needs-packaging stuff, check if its in Ubuntu now and Invalidate it if so :)
[14:12] <joumetal> Good idea. For that particular bug fix released seems to be good status.
[14:17] <xteejx> Cool.
[14:23] <joumetal> Tags confuses me. Let's take tag edgyeft. It has 2 bugs invalid and fix released. Tag is showing one and it is unsupported release.
[14:26] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: I asked about that discrepancy about a week ago, I was told if debugging procedures for that package are met, it can be marked confirmed
[14:28] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: that is also one of the major differences between confirmed and triaged, two users who have a problem = confirmed, all the necessary information present = triaged.  Think of triaged as an advanced state of confirmation.  If a bug could be marked triaged, it could definitely be confirmed.
[14:29] <angusthefuzz> xteejx: anyway, not all bugs may have multiple users, for example, obscure hardware problems.
[15:13] <angusthefuzz> hey, does anyone know how to collapse the Tags column on launchpad (or maybe remove it altogether as it is way too long)
[15:26] <ScottK> angusthefuzz: You can't.
[15:27] <angusthefuzz> ScottK: yeah, i couldnt find I way, I just figured it annoyed someone else enough for a greasemonkey script
[16:45] <angusthefuzz> is it appropriate to invalidate needs-packaging bugs that have not been maintained in over a year and a half? or even never released an official package
[16:46] <angusthefuzz> *not the bug being maintained but the package the bug is about
[16:46] <ddd> does recording sound work in 8.10?
[16:46] <ScottK> angusthefuzz: Not really.  I'd only invalidate it if the license precluded it going in the archive or upstream was entirely gone.
[16:46] <ddd> two 8.10 boxes, in both arecord gives io error
[16:47] <angusthefuzz> okay ScottK, thanks
[16:49] <awsoonn> hi all
[16:50] <awsoonn> Problem time. nm-applet is crashing on start and I need to reconfigure networking on 8.10
[16:51] <ScottK> awsoonn: You probably want #ubuntu for support then.
[18:15] <yuriy> ToHellWithGA: most likely you just don't have the packages for those things installed. the systemsettings packge is mostly just the shell.
[19:15] <lfaraone> Hey, would it be a good/bad idea to attach a video to a bugreport that documents the bug? (4.5MiB OGG Theora)
[19:17] <angusthefuzz> lfaraone: that would be a fine idea, screencasts are important sometimes and very useful for recreation of the bug
[19:20] <lfaraone> angusthefuzz: kk, just trying to make sure I wouldn't use up too much disk space or anything :P
[19:22] <lfaraone> angusthefuzz: done. ( bug 147419 )
[19:31] <ToHellWithGA> yuriy: that's a shame, man
[19:32] <ToHellWithGA> in the past, and know that my kde under gnome experience is quite limited, installing "kcontrol" and "k3b" was sufficient to be able to adjust the sound/keyboard/mouse
[19:38] <yuriy> ToHellWithGA: installing kcontrol didn't help? what version of ubuntu?
[19:39] <ToHellWithGA> kcontrol is no longer available
[19:39] <ToHellWithGA> !info kcontrol
[19:39] <yuriy> no, not in intrepid
[19:39] <yuriy> no more kde3 stuff
[19:39] <ToHellWithGA> is there an actual replacement?
[19:39] <yuriy> systemsettings
[19:39] <ToHellWithGA> systemsettings configures exactly nothing useful
[19:40] <ToHellWithGA> *from a running kde applications under gnome standpoint
[19:40] <yuriy> because the actual control modules are in other package
[19:40] <yuriy> I don't know which one the mouse is in
[19:40] <yuriy> probably kdebase
[19:40] <ToHellWithGA> not kdebase
[19:40] <yuriy> i mean, kdebase-workspace
[19:40] <ToHellWithGA> i had no change between systemsettings w/ and w/out kdebase
[19:40] <ToHellWithGA> i'll look into that
[19:41] <ToHellWithGA> if that package isn't in the "recommended" set for kcontrol it might be a good idea to make it so
[19:41] <yuriy> you mean, for systemsettings?
[19:41] <ToHellWithGA> right
[19:42] <ToHellWithGA> yuriy: it seems a little excessive that the entire kde workspace must be installed to tweak mouse settings
[19:43] <ToHellWithGA> kde window manager and all that
[19:52] <ToHellWithGA> yuriy: installing kdebase-workspace had no effect
[19:55] <ScottK> It seems a bit odd to be wanting to use kcontrol to tweak mouse setting if you aren't actually running in KDE.
[19:55] <nuggan> hi
[19:56] <nuggan> i got quite a situation with the new intrepid ibex
[19:56] <ToHellWithGA> ScottK: i want to click adn drag
[19:57] <ToHellWithGA> s/adn/and/
[19:57] <nuggan> desktop-effects are not supported anymore
[19:58] <nuggan> i checked a number of threads but found no solutions for intel graphic cards
[19:58] <ToHellWithGA> clicking and dragging in a kde application running under gnome is impossible now
[19:58] <ToHellWithGA> nuggan: it works fine for me on two machines
[19:58] <ToHellWithGA> what's wrong?
[19:58] <ToHellWithGA> which chipset are you running?
[19:59] <ToHellWithGA> if this is not the proper channel, we can chat elsewhere
[20:00] <nuggan> it was ok with v. 8.04 - i could choose the drivers for the chipsets then (i used i810 or so - the controller is a 945 g or gm)
[20:00] <ToHellWithGA> you shouldn't need to do that now
[20:00] <ToHellWithGA> when you run "glxinfo" what kind of output do you get?
[20:00] <nuggan> that, i suspect is the problem
[20:00] <nuggan> ok one moment
[20:01] <ToHellWithGA> i had something go wacky on my 915 chipset and perfectly normal behavior on my 945 chipset
[20:02] <nuggan> many, many lines - what kind of info would you need?
[20:02] <ToHellWithGA> try running glxgears
[20:02] <ToHellWithGA> see what kind of framerate you get
[20:03] <nuggan> ok
[20:03] <ToHellWithGA> i'm thinking something was up where "DRI" was not enabled for some mysterious reason
[20:04] <ToHellWithGA> without "DRI" enabled on the x display compositing window managers don't work
[20:04] <ToHellWithGA> *on intel
[20:04] <nuggan> around 220.000 fps - well, how is that to enable - DRI?
[20:07] <ToHellWithGA> nuggan: for what it's worth, i get 500-600 fps on a 2GHz pentium 4 on a 915 chipset
[20:07] <ToHellWithGA> 200 seems a little low unless you're on seriously old and slow hardware
[20:07] <ToHellWithGA> i'd guess that means DRI isn't running
[20:08] <ToHellWithGA> nuggan: try "gksudo displayconfig-gtk &"
[20:08] <ToHellWithGA> that should let you choose/force a driver
[20:10] <xteejx> Evening guys, can someone clear something up for me with bug 294424, I seemed to have helped the guys upgrade problem but there's still a problem with the upgrade when a user has postgresql-plperl installed.
[20:10] <xteejx> Oh, sorry what do I do with it? (Triager with no bug control right)
[20:12] <xteejx> Do I just leave it as confirmed, or fix released, as its still a problem for Hardy users?
[20:13] <nuggan> ToHellWithGA - doing so i get "[1] 10274" - as an answer - no options - but i believe - something that worked with ubuntu 8.04 should also work with 8.10 - i dont even want some special effects or cubes, but only the normal visual effects, which should even work with older/weak chipsets
[20:14] <ToHellWithGA> nuggan: nothing comes up?
[20:14] <ToHellWithGA> when you try to run displayconfig-gtk
[20:16] <nuggan> very odd - but in the end it say 'command not found' - i know that command from hardy, when i had fthis package installed - but intrepid won't suppurt it - does it?
[20:17] <krychek> hi, on my friends computer update-manager does not work.. it says segmentation error whatever he tries to do, hes using hardy, any idea?
[20:18] <ToHellWithGA> nuggan: "sudo aptitude install displayconfig-gtk"
[20:18] <xteejx> krychek: You will need to get it filed as a bug and work on it from there, might just be a trivial problem.
[20:19] <ToHellWithGA> krychek: how about apt-get or aptitude?
[20:20] <xteejx> krycheck: You might be able to try "dpkg --configure -a" it could just be a broken package somewhere that command _should_ fix it
[20:20] <krychek> apt-get says segmentation error, if he start the graphical update manager it just quits after 1-2 secs without any messages
[20:20] <ToHellWithGA> krychek: that sounds pretty hosed, man
[20:20] <ToHellWithGA> will he lose data if he reinstalls
[20:21] <krychek> xteejx: we have tried that.. but it didnt fix it
[20:21] <xteejx> krycheck: Worst case scenario your mate might have removed an essential package or files by mistake
[20:21] <krychek> he says he made a normal upgrade (not dist upgrade) and it just quit during the upgrade
[20:22] <ToHellWithGA> krychek: have y'all tried "sudo aptitude install -f"?
[20:22] <xteejx> krychek: Ok, it might be a really stupid idea but its worth a try - probably wont work, but "sudo apt-get reinstall update-manager" ?
[20:23] <ToHellWithGA> nuggan: marco
[20:23] <xteejx> Can someone look at bug 294424 please, shall I leave it confirmed or fix released, I thought leave as Confirmed?
[20:24] <krychek> we will try those.. but i guess there will be just a segfault message..
[20:26] <Flare183> xteejx: I'll look at it
[20:27] <krychek> i have another problem.. bug 157215
[20:28] <krychek> has anyone tried if time synching works in Hardy?
[20:29] <Flare183> krychek: I haven't
[20:29] <Flare183> Let me take a look at it
[20:33] <Flare183> I see
[20:33] <Flare183> umm
[20:41] <krychek> also there is an issue with java applets, they just freeze firefox, see bug 288642 and bug 285729
[20:42] <krychek> i cant access my netbank since i upgraded to intrepid
[20:43] <xteejx> Flare183: Thanks :)
[20:43] <Flare183> xteejx: np
[20:47] <krychek> Flare183: "Do you have the daylight savings time feature turned on? This might be the cause."    the system time is totally wrong, not just 1-2 hours difference
[20:48] <Flare183> oh ok
[20:49] <afflux> krychek: as far as I know this time-server thing does not sync the time if there is more than X minutes difference
[20:50] <krychek> hmm thats not good..
[20:50] <krychek> this is an old comp, it forgets the time when its turned off
[20:51] <nick_> My hybrid pro DVB usb stick does not work under the new ubuntu. \dev\DVB\ does not appear when it's plugged in
[20:52] <afflux> krychek: maybe try to add an "ntpdate ntp.ubuntu.com" call to /etc/init.d/ntp right before the ntpd gets startet
[20:52] <afflux> *started
[20:56] <krychek> afflux: before this line: start-stop-daemon --start --quiet --oknodo --pidfile $PIDFILE --startas $DAEMON -- -p $PIDFILE -u $UGID $NTPD_OPTS ?
[20:56] <afflux> yes
[20:56] <krychek> is there inet connection at that point during the boot?
[20:58] <afflux> uh
[20:59] <afflux> krychek: you're right, NetworkManager get's started after ntpd. Maybe you should change the links from /etc/rc*.d/S23ntp to S39ntp.
[21:00] <afflux> krychek: note that this whole ntpdate approach is quite hackish
[21:00] <krychek> yeah :)
[21:01] <krychek> why doesnt the time get synced when the difference is too big? :/
[21:02] <krychek> i should just buy a new battery instead..
[21:09] <krychek> i closed a warty bug a few days ago.. bug 29
[21:13] <nuggan> Bug #279835 - any workaround?
[21:17] <nuggan> does this mean i should trash my laptop due to depricated on-board graphics-chipsets? (it's only 3 years old!!!)
[21:23]  * ScottK hands nuggan https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Troubleshooting/
[21:44] <Mads-hk> Goodevening people...
[21:45] <Mads-hk> Just wanted to hear what needs to be done before changing the status of a bug from Confirmed to Triaged?
[21:46] <angusthefuzz> Mads-hk: all the relevant log files necessary for debugging that package need to be attached
[21:47] <Mads-hk> Eeehm... okay
[21:47] <angusthefuzz> Mads-hk: please see the following link for proceedures of various packages: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures
[21:48] <afflux> triaged means it has enough information for a developer to start working on it. This means: problem is localised and / or the bug has some kind of an approach to fix it
[21:49] <Mads-hk> ah okay... i have attached all the log files, described in the debugging wiki
[21:49] <angusthefuzz> Mads-hk: so now a decision needs to be made about having a developer look at the problem
[21:50] <angusthefuzz> Mads-hk: what is the bug number?
[21:50] <Mads-hk> okay... the number is #295679
[21:50] <afflux> "dpkg-divert: error checking `/usr/lib32/libGL.so.1': No such file or directory" -- what does this mean, by what is this caused?
[21:50] <angusthefuzz> bug #295679
[21:51] <Mads-hk> exactly :)
[21:52] <angusthefuzz> Mads-hk: part of the problem is that audio bugs are assigned to the linux package unless alsa is built from source
[21:53] <angusthefuzz> Mads-hk: additionally, confirmed audio bugs need to have the ubuntu-audio team subscribed to them
[21:53] <angusthefuzz> Mads-hk: I have made these changes for you
[21:53] <Mads-hk> oh, thank you! :)
[21:53] <angusthefuzz> (just giving you some info for the future ;-)
[21:54] <Mads-hk> and i appreciate it :)
[21:57] <angusthefuzz> Mads-hk: now all we need is someone from bug control to come by and change the importance
[21:58] <Mads-hk> okaay :)
[22:00] <jibel> afflux: this is likely bug 36625
[22:02] <afflux> jibel: indeed it is, thanks!
[23:36] <xteejx> Hi guys can someone have a look at bug 221402 please? Do I need to provide any logs/info?