[08:13] <NCommander> How long after a package enters dep-wait will it clear once its dependencies are available
[08:14] <NCommander> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/19414431/buildlog_ubuntu-jaunty-i386.alsa-plugins_1.0.18-1ubuntu1_MANUALDEPWAIT.txt.gz - this build log is extremely puzzling
[08:59] <geser> NCommander: why should it leave DEPWAIT?
[08:59] <NCommander> geser, LP to my knowledge clears things that are actually dep-wait on its own
[08:59] <NCommander> Am I wrong?
[09:00] <NCommander> (the status is MANUALDEPWAIT)
[09:00] <geser> that's correct
[09:00] <NCommander> maybe I'm not following you
[09:00] <geser> but amd64-libs is not available
[09:01] <geser> perhaps I did get your question/your problem
[09:01] <NCommander> oooh
[09:01]  * NCommander only looked at amd64's depwait
[09:01] <NCommander> d'oh
[09:02] <NCommander> hrm
[09:02] <NCommander> amd64-libs did exist
[09:02] <NCommander> Then it vanished
[09:02] <NCommander> Strange
[09:03] <geser> for amd64 is easy: alsa-plugins (main) vs ia32-libs (universe)
[09:03] <NCommander> ia32-libs is not in main?
[09:03] <NCommander> oh
[09:03] <NCommander> Ok
[09:03] <geser> looks like the build-dependencies need an update for at least i386 and amd64
[09:03] <NCommander> ok
[09:03]  * NCommander fails
[09:03] <geser> ia32-libs is not in main according to LP: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ia32-libs
[09:04] <NCommander> Yeah
[09:04] <NCommander> I would have swore it was
[09:04] <NCommander> Odd
[09:04] <geser> till dapper is was in main
[09:04] <NCommander> How did lib32asound2-dev then get built
[09:04] <NCommander> if ia32-libs is in universe
[09:05] <geser> without checking I guess with the needed lib32* libs
[09:05] <geser> or lib64 libs
[09:05] <geser> amd64-libs is on the sync-blacklist
[09:05] <NCommander> ia32 libs will not be installed out of the box
[09:05] <NCommander> I mean they are physically not installed
[09:06] <NCommander> It might be saner to do a promotion of ia32-libs to main
[09:06] <geser> I mean the biarch packages like lib32asound2
[09:06] <geser> or lib32z1
[09:06] <NCommander> Oh I see
[09:07] <geser> I doubt the archive admins want it back in main
[09:07] <NCommander> ok
[09:07] <NCommander> so alsa-plugins actually needs fixing
[09:07] <NCommander> The 32 bit fix is clear
[09:07] <NCommander> I have no idea how to fix building the 64 varients
[09:08] <NCommander> hrm
[09:08] <geser> there are lib64* variants of some packages
[09:08] <NCommander> ok
[09:08] <NCommander> I give
[09:08] <NCommander> alsa-plugins is not depending on ia32
[09:09] <NCommander> *ia32-libs
[09:09]  * NCommander begins working backwards
[09:09] <NCommander> oh wait
[09:09] <NCommander> nm
[09:09] <NCommander> found it
[09:10] <geser> check which 32bit packages it needs on amd64 and if they exist in a lib32 version
[09:10] <NCommander> geser, they are listed in the control file oddly enough
[09:11] <NCommander> (both are)
[09:11] <NCommander> what was the bug number?
[09:11] <geser> bug number?
[09:12] <NCommander> there was a bug that pointed me to that build failure
[09:12] <NCommander> I forgot I posted the log :-)
[09:14]  * NCommander tweaks his build environment to build only in main/restricted
[09:15] <NCommander> apachelogger, ping
[09:16] <NCommander> StevenK, ScottK: ping
[09:30] <NCommander> ENEEDCOREDEV
[09:40] <persia> NCommander, Are you seeking advice or an upload?
[09:41] <NCommander> persia, the later
[09:42]  * NCommander has created and built tested the fix patch in main-only pbuilder instances
[09:42] <persia> NCommander, Just subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors then.  Shouldn't be too long.
[09:42] <NCommander> did
[09:42] <persia> And it's time critical because?
[09:44] <NCommander> upgrading pulse audio uninstalls other packages, and removes the -desktop packages?
[09:44] <persia> And you've marked the relevant bug critical?
[09:44] <NCommander> High
[09:44] <persia> I'd bump it, based on breaking the default installation for a majority of users.
[09:44] <NCommander> I thought critical was only for violations, or serve risk of data/security lose and issues
[09:45]  * persia checks
[09:45]  * NCommander finds Ubuntu's priorities are at best a little loosely defined
[09:45] <persia> Critical: A bug which has a severe impact on a large portion of Ubuntu users
[09:45] <NCommander> Works for me
[09:45]  * NCommander bumps
[09:46] <persia> So it'll probably be one of the first things that any of the main sponsors hits.
[09:46]  * NCommander did mark the urgency critical in the changelog so it will take relatively little time to build
[09:46] <persia> That said, the number of jaunty users currently is small, and all of them are expected to be able to deal with breakage of that sort, so a day or so won't hurt, really.
[09:47] <persia> In the changelog you'd be better off with "medium".  It sorts before others, but still lets someone push something truly critical (like a key toolchain bug or something) in front of it.
[09:47] <NCommander> The toolchain will go first anyway
[09:47] <NCommander> the kernel and the toolchain are scored so they are built a moment a builder is together
[09:48] <NCommander> From the way I understand
[09:48] <NCommander> for packages without explicate build scores
[09:48] <persia> Well, OK, but still.  Using "critical" means there's no flexibility.  "medium" would have the same relative effect, and leave flexibility.
[09:49] <NCommander> So I should kill the patch and reupload?
[09:49] <wgrant> Does urgency actually matter in Ubuntu?
[09:49] <NCommander> wgrant, it actually affects the build score
[09:49] <NCommander> The way I understand it, if a package isn't scored explicately (i.e., kernel, toolchain), it starts at 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000 for main, restricted, universe, multiverse
[09:50] <NCommander> (I'd guess parther is 5000 if there is anything built from source there)
[09:50] <NCommander> Then a number (its either 1 or 5 if I understand correctly) is added for each queued build
[09:50] <NCommander> so if there are two queued packages for main, its 1005 and 1010 respectively
[09:50] <persia> wgrant, Only a very little, and only within an otherwise identical set.
[09:51] <NCommander> Urgency bumps the build score by ten per level of urgency set
[09:55]  * NCommander notes that might not be 100% correct
[10:40] <NCommander> ScottK, & jdong: http://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/11d7ba7d3a88a605 - care to weigh in on this?
[10:40] <wgrant> NCommander: Erm, wrong URL?
[10:41] <NCommander> oops
[10:41] <NCommander> http://mail.google.com/mail/?shva=1#inbox/11d7ba7d3a88a605
[10:41] <NCommander> argh
[10:41] <NCommander> Bug #295495
[10:41] <NCommander> there
[11:18] <edson> hi. after the upgrade that following packages: libgphoto2-2 (2.4.0-8ubuntu7) to 2.4.0-8ubuntu8
[11:18] <edson> libgphoto2-port0 (2.4.0-8ubuntu7) to 2.4.0-8ubuntu8, the web pics on firefox cant be seeing. some one can help?
[11:47] <cjwatson> NCommander: it's five per level of urgency set; doesn't make a whole lot of difference though since that's less than most other factors
[11:47] <NCommander> cjwatson, oh, I thought it was ten
[11:48] <cjwatson> NCommander: for comparison five minutes in the queue gets you a credit of 5, 15 minutes gets you a credit of 10, 30 minutes a credit of 15 ... being in main vs. universe grants 1000 vs. 250
[11:48] <cjwatson> etc.
[11:48] <NCommander> Ah
[11:48] <NCommander> Cool
[11:48] <cjwatson> I look forward to LP being open source so that we can just stick a URL to the relevant code in some documentation :)
[11:50] <Hobbsee> oh, neat.
[11:54] <NCommander> cool
[11:54] <NCommander> LP internals
[11:54] <NCommander> Build scores probably should be doc'ed somewhere
[11:54] <StevenK> The numbers themselves mean very little
[14:53] <ScottK> NCommander: I know backports.org backports debhelper regularly with no issues.  Since it only affects building packages, not using them, I think it's worth considering.
[15:14] <DeadPanda> hey, just wondering if DKMS would throw a fit if it replaced a module already in the kernel?  (I need a newer uvcvideo than that available in Intrepid for this laptop)
[15:17] <superm1> DeadPanda, as long as the kernel module isn't compiled as "part" of the kernel (eg not modular), it would be fine
[15:18] <DeadPanda> superm1: thanks
[15:18] <\sh> moins
[15:40] <Pelo> morning folks I think something is broken in the envyng packages,
[15:41] <tseliot> Pelo: what exacty?
[15:41] <Pelo> envyng-gtk install , along iwth common, but when I run envyng-g it wants  me to install envyng-qt , which I do and then it seems to install a full kde , very unnessary , just tought I would let you know
[15:41] <Pelo> never did that in hardy
[15:42] <tseliot> Pelo: the gtk ui wasn't ready therefore you will have to use either the qt ui or the textual ui
[15:42] <Pelo> tseliot, understood , thanks
[15:45] <superm1> cjwatson, is there a particular reason that laptop-detect casper and lupin casper aren't just in the live task, but instead explicitly listed in livecd-rootfs?
[17:43] <emgent> heya
[18:09] <jdong> NCommander: backporting debhelper 7 is outside my scope of comfort, I think ScottK should answer your question :)
[18:10] <ScottK> jdong: Since -release can't build against -backports and debhelper is only relevant to the build process, I think it should be fine.
[18:10] <ScottK> debhelper is one package where if it wasn't backwards compatible a huge amount of stuff would have blown up and we'd know it.
[18:11] <ScottK> There's an etch-backport of debhelper 7 if that's any comfort.
[18:29] <jdong> ScottK: alright, that sounds safe to me then
[18:30] <ScottK> Safe in the scheme of backports safe, yes.
[18:49] <X3> hi everyone
[18:49] <X3> please dont hate me
[18:49] <X3> |18:33:58| (X3) off topic question Im looking for skilled coders both windows and linux for new projects hardware manipulation/embedded systems/some web coders with knowledge of current standards other skills necessary these are opensource projects that will be be using some existing sourcecode most of it is really done just needs modifying/updating/adding features to suit the wip concept...
[18:49] <X3> |18:34:00| (X3) no reinventing of the wheel just making it current running better and target a large audience immediatly available to use programs in both projects please message me with contact detail @ http://x3webworx3.spaces.live.com/ any help even finding interested coders even students are welcome. thank you...
[18:50] <X3> |18:38:31| (X3) http://www.xps-wiki.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88&goto=newpost
[18:50] <X3> |18:39:11| (X3) http://www.xps-wiki.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87&goto=newpost
[18:51] <X3> that contains more information about project that may give you an idea many new laptop users could benefit os both that wish to dual boot linux and windows
[18:51] <X3> not just Dell laptops but all laptops
[19:04] <X3> no ok
[19:30] <emgent> someone know in that package is lzm2dir ?
[19:30] <emgent> s/that/what/
[19:44] <ScottK> emgent: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/how-do-i-decompress-lzm-files-586399/
[19:45] <emgent> saw that danke :)
[20:55]  * jdong questions mail-notification's "sent: about 41 minutes ago" field.
[20:55] <jdong> is that really rough enough an approximation to require wording it that way? :)
[21:35] <Kopfgeldjaeger> do-release-upgrade stops when /var/lib/update-notifier/ doesnt exist (when update-notifier isnt installed..). but that's probably not that important because afaik you should install ubuntu-desktop before upgrading.(?)
[21:37] <Kopfgeldjaeger> [the same with /var/games]
[22:15]  * soren notes that the trigger related stuff is missing from Debian/Ubuntu Policy.. How odd.
[22:16] <liw> is it a policy issue?
[22:16] <soren> The policy lists all the ways in which maintainer scripts can be called.
[22:17] <soren> Err...
[22:17] <soren> The policy lists all the ways in which maintainer scripts can be called except the trigger related ones.
[22:17] <soren> Chapter 6.
[22:17] <liw> oh, I didn't know triggers involve calling maintainer scripts in special ways
[22:18] <soren> How would you? It doesn't say in the debian policy :)
[22:22] <ion_> Documentation often lags behind code. :-)
[22:24] <liw> http://lists.debian.org/debian-dpkg/2007/04/msg00076.html -- right, that does specify that the postinst takes care of triggers
[22:24] <liw> soren, you should perhaps file a bug against the debian-policy package in the Debian bug tracking system
[22:25] <soren> Yes, I should.
[22:33] <ScottK> But the entertainment value would probably be higher if you could get Ian Jackson to file the bug.
[22:35] <Cheery> hi
[22:36] <Cheery> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/275207/python-ctypes-and-function-calls
[22:37] <Cheery> I'd like to know how to disable no-execution -flag for my heap
[22:38] <Cheery> Q9550 seems to have such retarded feature
[22:38] <soren> ScottK: :)
[23:47] <click170> Howcome irb in Hardy isn't compiled with --readline ?
[23:49] <click170> *hangs head in shame* nm, found it