[00:00] <pangloss> gouki: did you follow the recipes?
[00:00] <Laney> Packaging something from scratch is generally considered to be "advanced". Have you considered working on some bugfixes at first?
[00:01] <gouki> pangloss, yeah, pretty much. When I was able to do actually do something that worked, I bumped into a license problem, and ended up going back to 0 :)
[00:01] <persia> Anyway, here's the list of my personal open needs-packaging bugs : https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.bug_reporter=persia&field.tag=needs-packaging
[00:02] <persia> Feel free to take one of those if you want an example to learn packaging, and if you don't want to maintain it, that's fine.
[00:02] <pangloss> persia: thank you =)
[00:03] <persia> pangloss, No, thank you.  Those are toys I'd like to play with, but haven't actually gotten around to packaging.  ingen is probably the most interesting, as there are a couple dupes to the bug report, and it means we get to drop the obsolete om.
[00:03] <persia> If you package them, I get new toys and an opportunity to drop cruft :)
[00:04] <gouki> :)
[00:06] <gouki> persia, the entire output is here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69053
[00:06] <gouki> This would help me fix the typing game error I'm also having.
[00:06] <gouki> Since the error is the same, on both packages (and the game is actually fun :))
[00:08] <wgrant> Hmm, I didn't realise that we had amassed 120000 bugs in less than 11 months.
[00:09] <wgrant> Well, LP, not us.
[00:09] <persia> If you're packaging a game, I'll suggest you come join #debian-games on OFTC.  We're a mix of Debian and Ubuntu folk, and just push everything to Debian to reduce the number of revisions.
[00:10] <gouki> persia, sure thing. Let me just tell you that this is text-based game, to practice fast typing :) Not something complex like a FPS :)
[00:10] <persia> wgrant, A lot of those were Ubuntu, but a decreasing percentage.  I'd say we're getting close to a throughput of about 2500 bugs a week.
[00:10] <persia> gouki, That's OK.  Some people claim kanatest isn't even a game.
[00:10] <pangloss> persia: 2500.. wow thats great
[00:11] <pangloss> is there a way to compare that to non opensource projects bug throughput?
[00:11] <wgrant> 2500 is the opposite of great.
[00:11] <wgrant> Non-free projects don't often have public bugtrackers.
[00:11] <wgrant> And there is no non-free Ubuntu.
[00:12] <pangloss> wgrant 2500 is bad for free?
[00:12] <pangloss> o.O
[00:12] <wgrant> We can't manage 2500 new bugs a week very well.
[00:12] <persia> wgrant, No, 2500 is great.  That's bugsquad throughput.  That bugsquad needs to attain such numbers is the opposite of great.
[00:13] <wgrant> Oh.
[00:15] <persia> Well, last week wasn't stellar.  Only 2109 bugs closed, but it does get over 2500 some weeks.
[00:17] <persia> Scaling to more incoming reports just needs more eyes, but that's not the real issue.  The real issue is the 19321 bugs that are waiting for developer input.
[00:17] <persia> That number is growing by 150-200 bugs a week, which is where we're really failing to scale.
[00:18] <persia> (146 for week ending 1st November)
[00:20] <wgrant> 19321 are Confirmed? Or New?
[00:21] <persia> confirmed or triaged and unassigned.
[00:21] <wgrant> Ah.
[00:21] <persia> Mind you, the practice of the Ubuntu Desktop Bugs team of assigning themselves to lots of stuff masks the numbers some, so consider that a lower bound.
[00:22] <wgrant> Yes...
[00:22] <wgrant> And kernel team to.
[00:22] <wgrant> +o
[00:22] <persia> Yeah, well, I don't mind so much with the kernel team, as it's going to be the kernel team that fixes all of those.
[00:23] <persia> Whereas with the Ubuntu Desktop Bugs team, I often encounter people who want to fix it, and are working on a patch, but aren't sure how to proceed because the bug is claimed.
[00:23] <wgrant> True.
[00:23] <wgrant> Right.
[00:23] <wgrant> I've never seen a rationale for that policy.
[00:23] <pangloss> persia: cant you just reassign the bug to yourself?
[00:23] <persia> That said, I've seen bugs where members of the Ubuntu Desktop Bugs team pushed patches upstream *three* years ago, and they still aren't available in Ubuntu, which bothers me a bit.
[00:23] <persia> pangloss, Dunno.  Ask the Ubuntu Desktop Bugs team.
[00:23] <pangloss> hm
[00:23] <persia> I consider it impolite to reassign a bug without discussing with the current assignee.
[00:24] <wgrant> I think that can be considered a special case where that usually sane rule can be disregarded.
[00:26] <persia> Well, except that the Desktop team seems to get annoyed if someone pushes a patch to fix some bugs, and would rather that the patches get pushed upstream and accepted upstream, even if that takes several years because upstream is inactive.
[00:27] <persia> Anyway, it's only about 50-60 packages that are covered by that team, so it's at most a minor irritant.  If the bug is frustrating enough, talking to them may permit a patch to be applied.  Just assigning oneself may well cause strife.
[00:28] <nhandler> Quick question, in debian/control, you only need one Section tag under the Source section of the file, correct? You don't need one in the Source *and* in each Package section
[00:30] <persia> nhandler, Depends on the package.  If all the binary packages belong in the same section, putting it in source is fine.  If a couple of the binary packages go in special sections, only add section to those stanzas.  If every binary package belongs in a different section, there's not much point to having one in the Source stanza.
[00:30] <nhandler> persia: Thanks a lot. I just wanted to verify this before telling someone to change it on REVU
[00:31] <persia> So, say you're packaging something that produces a library, a development library, a daemon, a couple front-ends, and a plugins package.  You'd put the right section in source, and add special sections for the libfoo and libfoo-dev binary packages.
[00:32] <persia> Wheras something like libjs could probably just have binary sections because each of the binary packages belongs in a different section.
[00:32] <Yasumoto> RAOF: got my first attempt at merging miro up at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/miro/+bug/294459 :)
[00:32] <persia> s/libjs/libjsw/
[00:33] <Yasumoto> RAOF: if you wouldn't mind checking it out if you've got some time (no rush), I'd appreciate it
[00:35] <RAOF> Yasumoto: Thanks.  I noticed it, and it's on my list.  This weekend's going to be a bit busy, though ;)
[00:36] <Yasumoto> RAOF: yeah, no worries, I've got to work on stuff for SCaLE and some homework projects, just wanted to check in and let you know
[00:38] <geser> Yasumoto: it's better if you list the remaining changes instead of the dropped changes in your merge changelog entry
[00:39] <Yasumoto> geser: As I was going through, I didn't find any changes that were remaining, all the conflicts were just version updates
[00:39] <Yasumoto> er.. That's what I should be making note of, right? Things the MoM found issues with?
[00:40] <geser> Yasumoto: if you look at the Debian->Ubuntu debdiff: everything there is a remaining change
[00:40] <persia> gouki, Sorry for the delay.  I think I found it.  You're pushing stuff to $(CURDIR)/bsod-0.1/ and you want to push to $(CURDIR)/bsod
[00:41] <Yasumoto> geser: *doh*
[00:41] <Yasumoto> that would make sense
[00:43] <Yasumoto> geser: I wouldn't relist changelog entries, right?
[00:43] <persia> Yasumoto, Depending on the changelog entry, that might be the easiest way.  If the previous entries are particularly verbose, feel free to tighten up the wording, as long as it remains clear.
[00:50] <nhandler> Anyone know how long DaD will be down?
[00:50] <Yasumoto> geser + persia: thanks guys
[00:50] <persia> I don't think it's a planned outage.  Use MoM while you wait.
[00:51] <nhandler> persia: Yes it is. It is being upgraded for jaunty
[00:54] <gouki> persia, ohh, thank you for getting back to me!
[00:54] <gouki> persia, I'll change that on rules and see if it works.
[00:55] <persia> nhandler, Ah, in that case, probably be fixed over the weekend.  May as well tackle UEHS, unless you'd rather look at MoM.
[00:56] <gouki> BTW ... Is it recommended to delete commented lines from rules?
[00:56] <wgrant> UEHS should now have a working watch wizard and popcon results.
[00:57] <persia> gouki, The more you can make debian/rules easier to read, the better.
[00:57] <azeem> gouki: depends on whether the comment is useful or not
[00:57] <gouki> persia, hmmm, OK.
[00:57] <persia> wgrant, Is this new now, or as of ~ 12 hours ago?  (It seemed to be working for me then)
[00:57] <wgrant> persia: The watch wizard wasn't fully working until a few hours ago.
[00:58] <persia> Ah.  I grabbed a couple watch files, but that would explain the number of errors I saw.
[00:58] <wgrant> There are still lots of errors, of course.
[00:58] <persia> Poor quality debian/copyrights, I presume.
[00:59] <gouki> persia, as for the error, it's weird, since I don't have anything to change in rules that is pointing to $(CURDIR)/bsod-0.1/
[00:59] <persia> Does watch wizard understand the machine-readable debian/copyright format yet?
[00:59] <wgrant> I don't quite know.
[00:59] <wgrant> Was one ever decided on?
[01:00] <persia> gouki, Compare your debian/rules to the build output.  Look for what is being replaced.  There's probably a hint somewhere to determine how it generated that, and fix it.
[01:00] <persia> Decided upon, kinda.  Approved, no.
[01:00] <gouki> OK, persia.
[01:01] <persia> http://wiki.debian.org/Proposals/CopyrightFormat would be the current candidate, which seems to be seeing use in an increasing number of packages.
[01:01] <directhex> i used that one!
[01:02] <persia> Mind you, few of these would show on UEHS, as we're (mostly) enforcing sanity in REVU, and packages that were updated are unlikely to be orphaned.
[01:32] <gouki> persia, sorry, but .. I've been looking at the rules files and comparing the output from pbuilder, and I can't find anything worth changing :S
[01:32] <persia> OK.  paste debian/rules and debian/control
[01:36] <gouki> persia, they're on REVU: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/banihstypos-0811072139/banihstypos-0.2/debian/
[01:39] <persia> Ah, then I want a build log for that :p
[01:39] <gouki> persia, sure thing :)
[01:39] <persia> uncomment DH_VERBOSE=1 for extra information.
[01:44] <gouki> http://paste.ubuntu.com/69071
[02:06] <persia> gouki, My apologies.  I keep getting distracted.  Could you paste a binary build log?  The error isn't shown at 69071
[02:37] <gouki> persia, no problem whatsoever!
[02:37] <gouki> persia, a binary build log, like the one generated on pbuilder?
[02:39] <persia> Right.
[02:39] <persia> The log that shows the build failre.
[02:39] <persia> Could be pbuilder, sbuild, debuild -b, cowbuilder, PPA, etc.
[02:39] <persia> On that note, does anyone know if qemubuilder is working properly?
[02:40] <gouki> I paste a pbuilder output a couple of hours ago: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69053/
[02:40] <gouki> Would that be good?
[02:42] <persia> These are two separate packages.  Hard to compare.
[02:43] <effie_jayx> how do i check what kind of patching I must use for a specific package. I am thinking about changing some paths in the source code
[02:43] <effie_jayx> ?
[02:43] <gouki> persia, my bad! But bsod is also on REVU, let me get you the link
[02:43] <persia> http://paste.ubuntu.com/69053/ vs. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/banihstypos-0811072139/banihstypos-0.2/debian/rules
[02:43] <gouki> persia, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=bsod
[02:43] <persia> Oh, See I actually wanted to look at banihstypos.  I'll look at bsod, if you've pushed the same version that generated that log.
[02:44] <gouki> persia, yeah. So: This is the package: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=bsod     and this is the output from the build: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69053/
[02:44] <persia> effie_jayx, what-patch might help, from ubuntu-dev-tools
[02:44] <effie_jayx> persia, thanks
[02:45] <effie_jayx> persia, it says "patchless?"
[02:46] <effie_jayx> and I wouldn't be suprised if it is so
[02:46] <persia> gouki, Ah, I think you want DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp/ run debuild -b and check.
[02:46] <gouki> persia, sure thing.
[02:46] <gouki> ls
[02:46] <gouki> oops! :S
[02:46] <persia> effie_jayx, Run lsdiff against the diff.gz.  Sometimes what-patch doesn't catch those.
[02:47] <effie_jayx> persia, lsdiff kipina_0.2.2-0ubuntu1.diff.gz  gives no output at all
[02:48] <persia> lsdiff -z
[02:48] <gouki> persia, thank you. I was able to see from the output of debuild -b that dependencies are not being satisfied. I have ncurses-dev on my control, and I'm sure it doesn't require anything else. Do you want me to paste it for you?
[02:49] <persia> gouki, Remember that the dependencies are typically automatically pulled by pbuilder/sbuild/cowbuilder/etc.
[02:49] <persia> You need to install them on your local system if you want debuild -b to work.
[02:49] <gouki> persia, ohhh, so let me try that again with the package installed.
[02:49]  * persia usually does debuild -b in a chroot to avoid cluttering the local system
[02:50] <gouki> persia, I'm running on a VM with a clean snapshot taken. :)
[02:51] <effie_jayx> persia, I can see the files modified by the patch, how can I tell what patch system to use
[02:52] <persia> effie_jayx, Look at the output of lsdiff.  If there's stuff in debian/patches, what-patch is supposed to tell you, and if it doesn't, check debian/README.source, and if that doesn't help, check debian/rules.
[02:53] <persia> If there's not stuff in debian/patches, and there's stuff outside of debian, it uses patch-in-diff.gz, so just change the stuff you want to change in an editor, and generate a new diff.gz against the orig.tar.gz.
[02:54] <persia> If there's not stuff in debian/patches and there's nothing outside debian/ you get to choose.  In this case, for packages from Debian, I recommend looking at other packages with the same maintainer, and using that patch system.  Where that fails, if the package uses CDBS, use simple-patchsys.  The rest of the time, use whatever you personally prefer.
[02:54] <effie_jayx> persia,  ok. there is no debian patches and there is stuff changed outsude debian
[02:54] <gouki> persia, http://paste.ubuntu.com/69080 is the output of debuild -b
[02:56] <persia> effie_jayx, Then it's patches-in-diff.gz, so just edit in place, and generate a new diff.gz.
[02:56] <persia> gouki, That's expected.  However, right now you have the broken build-tree to play with.  Check for debian/tmp and debian/bsod.  See what exists and what doesn't.
[02:56] <persia> This can help you troubleshoot your rules.
[03:01] <gouki> persia, my debian/bsod is empty. Normal?
[03:03] <persia> There was a debian/bsod?
[03:03] <persia> Was there a debian/tmp?
[03:03] <gouki> No, but apparently one was created when I ran debuild -b
[03:03] <gouki> No, there weren't any of those.
[03:04] <persia> Right, that's why you ran debuild -b : to find out what was being created.
[03:04] <persia> If it's empty, the upstream build system isn't creating the directory structure properly.
[03:04] <persia> Add the directories you need to debian/bsod.dirs without the initial /
[03:04] <persia> Also, you want to make it use /usr/bin, rather than /usr/local/bin
[03:05] <gouki> My mentor told me to delete dirs, since it was only creating know folders.
[03:05] <gouki> *known
[03:08] <persia> Your mentor obviously didn't actually review just how broken the upstream build system apparently is :)
[03:08] <persia> Most upstream build systems create the folders they need for installation.
[03:08] <persia> In these cases, debian/dirs is mostly useless.
[03:08] <gouki> So, having the initial debian/dirs file is OK, with usr/bin in it.
[03:08] <persia> In the rare case where upstream doesn't do that, you need it (which is why it exists).
[03:08] <persia> If you need it, yes.
[03:09] <persia> Always try without debian/dirs first, and only add it if the build breaks because the directory is missing.
[03:09] <gouki> Very well. I'll create the file again and give it another test drive :)
[03:09] <gouki> Oh, OK! Thank you very much persia, really!
[03:09] <persia> gouki, No problem.  Thanks for helping.  Now purge bsod and concentrate on a useful package :)
[03:10] <gouki> LOL! OK! :P
[03:10]  * gouki goes back to his spelling game
[03:15] <gouki> Well, even with usr/bin on debian/dirs, it still fails with the same error :S
[03:18] <effie_jayx> persia, this seems like looking for a nail in a hay stack
[03:18] <persia> gouki, /tmp/buildd/bsod-0.1/debian/bsod/usr/local/bin': No such file or directory
[03:19] <persia> gouki, Notice the lack of "/usr/bin" in that.
[03:19] <persia> If you put /usr/local/bin in debian/dirs, that would make the error go away, but that would be wrong.
[03:19] <persia> So put /usr/bin there, and find a way to tell the build system to use that instead of /usr/local/bin
[03:19] <persia> effie_jayx, What?  How do you mean?
[03:20] <effie_jayx> persia,  I am trying to find in line in the source code where the app loads a xml file from /usr/etc instead of /etc/
[03:21] <persia> effie_jayx, strace is the tool you seek.
[03:21] <effie_jayx> ok
[03:21]  * effie_jayx man's strace
[03:22] <persia> It shows every system call made by the program, so when you get to the access to /usr/etc you can see waht comes before it, and that can help you understand where in the code it is happening.
[03:22] <effie_jayx> mmkey, very cool tool
[03:22] <persia> If it's early enough in the output, you can probably step through the code while reading the strace and see every step it takes to get there.
[03:23] <effie_jayx> uff lots of output
[03:23] <persia> Well, it's *every* syscall :)
[03:23] <effie_jayx> let me send it to a field
[03:23] <effie_jayx> right
[03:23] <persia> I usually pipe it into a file, and then view the file and search for the bits I want.
[03:24] <effie_jayx> persia, cool
[03:25] <gouki> persia, hehe! Thanks! Found it, and it worked! :)
[03:25] <gouki> ls
[03:30] <gouki> persia, if you have a minute, I believe this is working OK: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=banihstypos
[03:31] <persia> gouki, Unfortuntely, I need to head out soon.  Maybe someone else could take a look?
[03:31] <nhandler> gouki: I'll take a look at it
[03:31] <gouki> nhandler, thank you very much! :)
[03:39] <effie_jayx> persia,  very helpfull your tips as usuall... I found my issue. I need to move a file to /home/$user/.kipina and that would be it
[03:40] <effie_jayx> and install file would be good
[03:53] <Adri2000> nhandler: DaD: universe/multiverse is done, and universe.php is generated. I just launched main; main.php will be generated as soon as it is finished
[03:55] <Adri2000> also, everyone, note that unfortunately there are still a *lot* of broken merges (the /!\ ones) which seems to be mainly due to snapshot.d.n lacking some packages. in that case we cannot do anything except advising to use MoM.
[03:57] <effie_jayx> anyone could point out a url that might help me get started on writing an install file?
[03:57] <nhandler> Thanks a lot Adri2000 for the heads up
[03:58] <gouki> nhandler, just saw your comment. Will work on it right away.
[03:59] <nhandler> gouki: I subscribed to the package, so I should get an email when you prepare a new upload.
[03:59] <gouki> nhandler, thank you very much.
[04:01] <gouki> nhandler, about the License ... Do I have to mention the /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL file even when the license used is gplv2?
[04:01] <gouki> Because I have the path to the license: "On Debian systems, the complete text of ..." under the license.
[04:02] <nhandler> gouki: I must have skipped over that.
[04:02] <nhandler> gouki: You can ignore that comment then
[04:03] <gouki> nhandler, ok. thank you.
[04:04] <gouki> Should I ask on REVU or is here OK?
[04:04] <nhandler> About what?
[04:04] <gouki> Now would be about the games warning.
[04:05] <nhandler> You can ask here
[04:06] <gouki> Even with this text-only (typing game) it should be installed to usr/games?
[04:07] <nhandler> gouki: If you specify a Section of games in debian/control, I believe you are required to install to /usr/games
[04:07] <gouki> nhandler, OK.
[04:07] <gouki> One last thing ..
[04:08] <gouki> The error about the distribution ...
[04:09] <nhandler> The first one gouki?
[04:09] <gouki> nhandler, yes, the first one.
[04:09] <nhandler> jdong: You can ignore the "bad-ubuntu-distribution-in-changes-file jaunty". That will go away once lintian is updated in Ubuntu
[04:09] <nhandler> Your distribution in debian/changelog is correct
[04:09] <gouki> You meant gouki, right? :)
[04:10] <nhandler> Yes I did gouki ;)
[04:10] <gouki> Heheh! Sure nhandler, thank you very much.
[04:10] <gouki> Ohhh .. As for the manpage ...
[04:11] <nhandler> What about it?
[04:11] <gouki> If the software doesn't come with a manpage ... ?
[04:12] <nhandler> gouki: Most applications don't come with manpages. You need to create it.
[04:13] <gouki> nhandler, any pointers on how do I do that?
[04:14] <nhandler> gouki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles#Man%20Pages
[04:18] <gouki> Every time I delete the commented lines in rules, it fails to build the package sources.
[04:19] <nhandler> Are you sure you are only removing the commented lines?
[04:19] <nhandler> The commented lines are the lines beginning with a #
[04:19] <gouki> nhandler, yes. It happened several times before, and I can't understand why :S
[04:19] <gouki> yes.
[04:20] <nhandler> That is really strange gouki. Comments should not affect how the package builds
[04:23] <gouki> nhandler, lintian -i to see a more detailed report, right?
[04:23] <nhandler> Yes
[04:23] <gouki> Well, got it down to one error :) the jaunty one
[04:25] <nhandler> You can ignore that one, so you are good :)
[04:27] <gouki> Hmm, not really :S
[04:27] <gouki> Fails to build
[04:29] <gouki> I changed what I had (/usr/bin) to usr/games on the makefile. doesn't seem to work very good
[04:31] <gouki> Maybe I need the dirs file.
[04:31] <nhandler> gouki: I'm too tired to think straight any longer. I'm heading off to bed. I'll be glad to help you some more tomorrow if you still need help
[04:31] <gouki> nhandler, ok. Thank you very much for the help.
[04:31] <nhandler> You're welcome gouki
[04:41] <gouki> ls
[04:44] <jdong> hmm interesting, ondemand -> performance has significantly cut down on audio blipping on this iMac.
[04:44] <jdong> I thought these modern chips were supposed to transition frequencies fast enough for this not to be an issue.
[04:44] <jdong> perhaps timer/clock skew?
[04:50] <wgrant> jdong: Doesn't mjg59 recommend against frequency scaling?
[04:51] <jdong> wgrant: does he really?
[04:52] <jdong> wgrant: I was unaware of that
[04:52] <jdong> wgrant: I've only read him recommending against locking your CPU in the lowest frequency (i.e. 'powersave') as it actually keeps the CPU awake longer, wasting more power
[04:52] <lidb> is revu day going on?
[04:52] <wgrant> Right, http://mjg59.livejournal.com/88608.html is my reference. It seems he recommends running in ondemand, actually.
[04:53] <wgrant> I haven't read that in a while, so might be a bit forgetful.
[04:53] <wgrant> So it seems I was somewhat wrong.
[04:54] <lidb> hello, any one can review my package: iptux, fqterm and llk-linux, thanks
[04:57] <jdong> wgrant: interestingly in battery life tests I've done, ondemand vs performance had little impact. But I can feel right now the latency of those state switches. compiz desk switching is jerky. Sometimes scrolling in FF is jerky. Flash videos have skippy audio on CPU activity. For now, I'll go with performance...
[05:00] <wgrant> jdong: What do I poke at to change the governor these days?
[05:01] <jdong> wgrant: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
[05:01] <jdong> wgrant: if you use GNOME, the frequency scaling applet can do it too
[05:01] <jdong> it's now PolicyKit enabled too
[05:02] <jdong> wgrant: from my testing, removing powernowd using update-rc.d should lock you into performance at startup
[05:03] <wgrant> Oh, I didn't know the applet could do anything but view it.
[05:04] <wgrant> Aha, I see.
[05:04] <wgrant> Convenient.
[05:04] <wgrant> Thanks.
[05:04] <jdong> sure thing
[05:10] <wgrant> PowerTop likes my batter:
[05:10] <wgrant> +y
[05:10] <wgrant> Power usage (5 minute ACPI estimate) :   0.1 W (453.8 hours left)
[05:11] <jdong> wgrant: do you have the world's first nuclear powered laptop? :)
[05:12] <wgrant> jdong: Of course.
[05:13] <jdong> awesome :)
[05:25] <ScottK> HPPA doesn't do nearly as good a job of keeping up when 80% of the packages on FTBFS on that arch.
[05:30] <wgrant> ScottK: Hmm, is it really that high now?
[05:30] <ScottK> No.  It's doing quite well now.
[05:31] <ScottK> For most of the latter part of Intrepid it was pretty bad.
[05:31] <wgrant> Yes...
[05:31] <ScottK> No, now that stuff's building it's way behind.
[05:31] <wgrant> Poor ia64 isn't going too quickly this time.
[05:31] <ScottK> No.  PowerPC is doing well.
[05:57]  * NCommander wakes up
[05:57] <NCommander> Did someone say PowerPC?
[05:57] <NCommander> wgrant, we're waiting for at least alpha one before smashing the FTBFS in ports
[05:57] <NCommander> Since a good number of failures are just misidentified dep-waits
[06:14] <NCommander> How did lpia finish building everything os fast ....
[06:16] <wgrant> It has newish hardware, and a fair bit of stuff likely doesn't build there.
[06:17] <NCommander> wgrant, you care about ia64?
[06:17]  * NCommander notes that lpia has LOADS of build failures :-/
[06:44] <iulian> geser: Heya, may I steal the hnb merge from you?
[07:16]  * NCommander searches for intelligent conversation
[07:28] <iulian> geser: Anyway, I see bug 245706 which tells us we should sync instead of merge. As far as I can see the package was not tested in Ubuntu (using the Debian patch). I'm not really sure what to do. In the mean time I will test the debian version to see if it works using the Debin patch, if yes then we can sync, if not I will merge it keeping our patch.
[07:29] <iulian> geser: Any advice would be appreciated.
[07:29] <iulian> Or anyone else.
[08:17] <NCommander> directhex, ping
[08:21] <laga> w
[08:21] <laga> oops.
[08:24] <iulian> geser: OK, I tested the Debian version and confirmed bug 49618. On the other hand, the modified package (the one with the Ubuntu patch) FTBFS with the following message: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69135/plain/
[08:37] <geser> iulian: Hi and yes, you can have hnb for merging
[08:45] <iulian> geser: Thanks. Any ideas why it FTBFS? I resolved the conflicts by just removing the debian changes from the src/ui_draw.c and src/ui.edit.c files and kept the ubuntu changes.
[08:47] <iulian> geser: I can make a debdiff between the debian .dsc and the modified one to convince yourself.
[08:49] <geser> iulian: but the Debian package builds?
[08:50] <geser> the current Debian package uses quilt for patch management while the current Ubuntu delta is applied directly, so a first step would be to convert it into a quilt patch (perhaps it also solves your FTBFS problem this way)
[08:51] <iulian> geser: Yes, I tested the Debian package and it builds fine.
[08:52] <iulian> s/builds/built
[08:53] <iulian> OK, I'll see what I can do, thanks.
[09:40] <iulian> geser: I've no idea how to fix it. It seems that there are two different bugs regarding the position of the cursor. I will just leave the merge to someone more experienced than me.
[09:41] <persia> gouki, Nuked.  Thanks for asking.
[09:42] <geser> iulian: no problem
[10:00] <NCommander> wow
[10:00]  * NCommander just learned that Debian's spiral isn't the complete official logo
[10:02]  * jpds throws his http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1593270690/ in NCommander's direction.
[10:03]  * NCommander recongizes names on the review page
[10:04] <NCommander> jpds, as an aside, that ain't the official logo either
[10:05] <jpds> NCommander: The book has a section on the logo.
[10:05] <NCommander> it does?
[10:05] <jpds> Yeah, among a bunch of other things.
[10:06] <NCommander> ok, care to sum up why the official logo isn't used any mor?
[10:08] <jpds> NCommander: http://www.debian.org/logos/ ?
[10:08] <NCommander> yup
[10:08] <NCommander> I've never seen the genie bottlle on before
[10:09] <persia> Used to be available as a default background, although it's been a while since I ran a default install on a desktop.
[10:09] <NCommander> not on edge or lenny
[10:09] <NCommander> I don't think it was for sarge either
[10:09] <persia> (which perhaps demonstrates about how long I've been running an Ubuntu desktop)
[10:10] <NCommander> what release was before sarge
[10:10] <NCommander> woody?
[10:10] <persia> Yep.
[10:10] <NCommander> woody was the first Debian system I used
[10:10] <NCommander> I don't think it was there
[10:12] <persia> Not the primary one, but in the standard desktop-backgrounds set.
[10:12] <persia> I think there was a gdm theme with the bottle as well.
[10:13] <persia> Might still be there, although I've long forgotten the relevant package name.
[10:14] <NCommander> oh
[10:14] <NCommander> I dunno then
[10:16]  * NCommander just learned backports.org backports kernels ...
[10:19] <persia> Given a six-month release cycle, and the number of issues we have every cycle due to API changes, don't let that be an inspiration.
[10:22] <NCommander> I didn't say anything !
[10:22]  * NCommander is crazy, but not THAT crazy
[10:23] <DktrKranz> pochu, if you have time, mind have a look at bug 260765?
[10:32]  * NCommander glances at the intrepid/hardy bug lists
[10:32] <NCommander> hey DktrKranz
[10:32] <DktrKranz> morning NCommander
[10:33] <DktrKranz> but I guess is quite late there
[10:33] <NCommander> DktrKranz, yup
[10:33] <NCommander> DktrKranz, are you running intrepid?
[10:33] <DktrKranz> no
[10:33] <DktrKranz> jaunty, but I have a VM available
[10:33] <NCommander> care to test something?
[10:34] <DRebellion> In `sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd', how does the 'buildd' option affect the chroot/building process?
[10:34] <DktrKranz> vmware is doing some cleanups, in a half an hour I guess, but sure
[10:34] <NCommander> DRebellion, it installs build-essential
[10:34] <NCommander> fakeroot, and devscripts I think
[10:35] <NCommander> DktrKranz, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/mtd-utils/+bug/294428
[10:35] <DRebellion> NCommander, that's it? And the normal pbuilder doesn't?
[10:35] <NCommander> it doesn't matter
[10:35] <DRebellion> ok
[10:35] <DRebellion> NCommander, thanks.
[10:35] <NCommander> pbuilder will install fakeroot/build-essential if needed
[10:36] <DktrKranz> NCommander, I'll take it soon
[10:37] <NCommander> thanks :-)
[10:37] <NCommander> the package built w.o failure
[10:37] <NCommander> SO it should just be an ACK
[10:38] <DktrKranz> a verification one
[11:27] <DRebellion> How can I get pbuilder to build, then clean, then build again from the cleaned sources? Does revu-build do this?
[11:31] <Hobbsee> DRebellion: it does that by default?
[11:39] <DRebellion> Hobbsee, pbuilder or revu-build?
[11:40] <Hobbsee> DRebellion: pbuilder.  no idea what revu-build as such does
[11:40] <DRebellion> oh...
[11:40]  * DRebellion checks his build logs
[11:43] <DRebellion> Hobbsee, it doesn't seem to have done that here.
[11:43] <DRebellion> `sudo pbuilder build --logfile xxx.log xxx.dsc'
[11:43] <Hobbsee> DRebellion: it creates a new chroot, clean and without the build-deps in it, each time.
[11:44] <DRebellion> Hobbsee, oh, I think you have misunderstood. I want to create the chroot, install the deps, etc. Then build in the chroot, then clean those sources, then build again in the same chroot with the cleaned sources.
[11:44] <Hobbsee> oh, right
[11:45]  * Hobbsee doesn't think it has a builtin for that.
[11:46] <Laney> Didn't someone add pbuilder --build-twice or something not too long ago?
[11:47] <DRebellion> Laney, Hobbsee, `man pbuilder': " --twice is for --build option It builds the package twice in a row to check for possible clean issues. It will generate the .deb of the second build."
[11:47] <DRebellion> that's it
[11:47] <DRebellion> : )
[11:47] <Hobbsee> oh, there you are, then.
[11:48] <Laney> excellent
[11:48] <Laney> DRebellion: hugs to nxvl for that feature ;)
[11:51] <slytherin> NCommander: I see you updated jedit in jaunty. Do you have any plan to port the package to Debian?
[11:52] <NCommander> slytherin, once I'm a DD, and Debian is out of freeze, I plan to move all 0ubuntuX packages I can if possible ;-)
[12:00] <sebner> NCommander: DD, big plans. :P
[12:01] <NCommander> sebner, I'm through AM with a +1 from my sponsor
[12:02] <sebner> NCommander: AM? I only know DM
[12:03] <NCommander> It means my application manager has +1ed me
[12:03] <NCommander> I'm waiting on the buracat parts of the system
[12:04] <directhex> debianization is a loing scary process
[12:04] <directhex> i'm fine with just firing things though a sponsor ;)
[12:05] <sebner> NCommander: O_o I'm impressed even more about you
[12:05] <sebner> directhex: hi btw =)
[12:05] <DktrKranz> sebner, get MOTUship first
[12:05] <directhex> mornin'
[12:05] <sebner> DktrKranz: /me isn't even NM :P
[12:05]  * NCommander was wondering if I would be a DD before MOTU
[12:06] <NCommander> Context: my DD application is eight months old
[12:06] <DktrKranz> NCommander, anu progress so far in your NM?
[12:06] <DktrKranz> you're almost there ;)
[12:06] <NCommander> DktrKranz, Final FD approval, DAM approval
[12:06] <DktrKranz> cool
[12:06] <NCommander> so about another four months ;-)
[12:06] <DktrKranz> so, I guess who I should bother for Debian stuff :D
[12:06] <NCommander> I'll find another transition in Hardy that needs doing!
[12:07] <DktrKranz> please!
[12:07]  * NCommander starts looking
[12:07]  * DktrKranz is thinking to upload crap just to ignite NCommander 
[12:08] <wgrant> He's too insane; he won't burn well.
[12:08] <NCommander> No, I'm a firefighter
[12:08] <NCommander> I self-extinish
[12:08] <DktrKranz> autocombustion
[12:08] <DktrKranz> cool
[12:08]  * NCommander notes that every firefighter has a pyro inside wanting to get out
[12:08]  * NCommander thus dons a flamethrower
[12:09]  * NCommander reduces DktrKranz into Italian sausage that is flame broiled
[12:09]  * DktrKranz likes it
[12:09]  * NCommander feeds DktrKranz to the dog
[12:09]  * DktrKranz doesn't like it
[12:10] <DktrKranz> not for me, it's your dog who will need medical care
[12:10] <NCommander> I doubt you'd even give my dog gas, let alone indigestion
[12:11] <Hobbsee> depends if he implodes the dog.
[12:11] <NCommander> I have phoenix downs handy
[12:11] <NCommander> and an ample supply of duct tape, and superglue
[12:11] <sebner> another DD to annoy. that will be fun =)
[12:11]  * NCommander aims his flamethrower at sebner 
[12:12] <slytherin> NCommander: the freeze does not stop you from putting it in unstable.
[12:12] <sebner> NCommander: upload all the stuff from Debian mentors which is made by ubuntu folks! :P
[12:12] <NCommander> Most people, myself included don't upload to sid during freezes
[12:12] <NCommander> Since then we have to use tpu to fix lenny if necessary
[12:13] <slytherin> NCommander: anyway, the reason I asked the question is do you have any plan at all to get the package in Debian. If not I will try to put it in pkg-java svn
[12:14] <NCommander> Not at this time
[12:14] <NCommander> I am not a DD, and likely another month before that happens
[12:15] <DktrKranz> NCommander, I think it doesn't apply for NEW packages, since it won't part of Lenny anyway
[12:15] <sebner> NCommander: what's the way until beeing a DD. in other words, how many years of hard work?
[12:16] <NCommander> I got sponsored within a month of working on the m68k team
[12:16] <NCommander> Sponsorship via a team is the fastest way
[12:16] <NCommander> (or portering team in this case)
[12:16] <NCommander> The rest is waiting
[12:16] <NCommander> Lots and lots and lots of waiting
[12:16] <sebner> O_o
[12:17]  * NCommander was active in Debian for a year and a half before applying
[12:17] <sebner> DktrKranz: become part of a team!
[12:17] <NCommander> THe hard part is meeting the GPG key signing requirement
[12:17] <sebner> NCommander: kay, thx
[12:17] <DktrKranz> sebner, that's the problem, I haven't a specific interest
[12:18] <sebner> DktrKranz: so you'll join everywhere?
[12:19] <DktrKranz> or nowher
[12:19] <DktrKranz> *nowere
[12:19]  * DktrKranz can't type today
[12:19] <sebner> hrhr
[12:20] <DktrKranz> NCommander, did you find troubles in that? My area is widely populated by DDs, so no big issue :)
[12:20]  * Yagisan hasn't found GPG key signing to be hard
[12:21] <NCommander> DktrKranz, for someone who lives in NYC, yes I did
[12:21] <Yagisan> granted - you may need to lay a trap and hold the dd in a net to get it signed - but still ...
[12:21] <NCommander> Yeah
[12:21] <NCommander> That's what I did
[12:21] <DRebellion> Does anybody know how to do a newline (\n) in a manpage?
[12:21] <DktrKranz> NYC lacks DDs
[12:21] <DktrKranz> curious
[12:21] <DRebellion> The .PP macro does a new paragraph, but I want to only make a list, with no blank lines in between.
[12:21] <Yagisan> odd - I've met DD's from NYC
[12:22]  * NCommander has too
[12:22] <NCommander> Yagisan, where are you from?
[12:22] <Yagisan> Sydney
[12:22] <Yagisan> <- Not a DD. Just lurks here on occasion
[12:22] <StevenK> Yeah, I don't think NYC lacks DDs
[12:22] <StevenK> I think there's five or six
[12:22] <Yagisan> Hi StevenK
[12:22]  * StevenK waves
[12:22] <Yagisan> long time no see
[12:22] <StevenK> Yagisan: Indeed. How are you?
[12:23] <Yagisan> I can't say in a G rated channel :/
[12:23] <Yagisan> but lets just say yesterdays final uni exam results where not expected
[12:23] <StevenK> Wonderful :-/
[12:24] <Yagisan> well - it cost me an employment opportunity
[12:24] <Yagisan> I've been told to re-sit them in feb
[12:24] <StevenK> That's even worse
[12:24] <Yagisan> oh well - I've another one I interviewed for - lets see if I get an offer for that
[12:25] <StevenK> Yagisan: I moved employers, too
[12:25] <Yagisan> where to now StevenK ?
[12:25] <slytherin> Yagisan: and when university exams were ever as expected?
[12:25] <StevenK> Yagisan: Canonical :-)
[12:25] <slytherin> I mean results
[12:25] <Yagisan> StevenK, nice :D
[12:25] <Yagisan> slytherin, I expect a pass or fail
[12:26] <Yagisan> slytherin, I got two credits and a big fat - dude - you need to resit this exam O-o
[12:26] <slytherin> Yagisan: ahh, reappearing is nightmare.
[12:27] <Yagisan> no - explaining it to Mrs Yagisan is the real nightmare
[12:27] <slytherin> :-P
[12:29] <Yagisan> well - it's been 6 years since I promised to take her home
[12:29] <Yagisan> and no degree == no work for me in her country == unhappy wife
[12:31] <DktrKranz> what the heck! ... does anybody know why vmware decided to switch keyboard layout to something unknown? Or better... how to fix it
[12:32] <slytherin> in my country marriage usually happens 6 years of after having a degree. :-)
[12:32] <Yagisan> StevenK, one nice thing about the other job I interviewed for - is most of the workstations are kubuntu boxes
[12:32] <NCommander> slytherin, you from germany?
[12:32] <slytherin> NCommander: nah, India
[12:32]  * NCommander knows in Germany it takes a long time to get a degree
[12:33] <sebner> NCommander: where are you from btw?
[12:33] <Yagisan> slytherin, I apparently am doing this backwards ;) marriage -> high school -> kids-> tertiary education
[12:33] <slytherin> NCommander: I didn't say it takes long time to get degree. I said it takes long time to get married. :-)
[12:33] <NCommander> sebner, Rochester, NY
[12:33] <NCommander> slytherin, elope
[12:33] <sebner> DktrKranz: keyboard isn't working in vmware. true =)
[12:33] <NCommander> *is gunned down*
[12:33] <sebner> NCommander: ah, k
[12:33] <DktrKranz> sebner, I noticed...
[12:33]  * Yagisan hugs kvm ...
[12:34] <sebner> DktrKranz: maybe it's fixed with version 2?
[12:34] <DktrKranz> I have workstation 6.5
[12:34] <sebner> ah
[12:34]  * sebner server 1.0.7
[12:35] <DktrKranz> funny part I can't find no option to configure it
[12:35] <sebner> DktrKranz: /me thinks itS' b0rken
[12:35] <Yagisan> DktrKranz, last time I used it - vmare seemed to need an "export LANG=C" before starting it before it would be happy.
[12:36]  * Yagisan wishes his xubuntu torrent would hurry up
[12:36] <DktrKranz> Yagisan, 6.0.x worked, I'll try your method
[12:36] <NCommander> YAY, xubuntu user!
[12:37]  * Yagisan uses all of them - depending on system
[12:40]  * Yagisan has almost finished getting all license issues sorted out with his deng package. Almost ready to send it to revu (it's taken 3 years!!! so far to fix licensing on it)
[12:43] <Yagisan> yay - torrent done
[12:44] <DktrKranz> mh, export LANG didn't help
[12:45] <Yagisan> DktrKranz, is it not recognising keypresses at all ?
[12:46] <DktrKranz> well, some keys are correct
[12:46] <Yagisan> maybe it wants a US keymap
[12:46] <DktrKranz> but if I press arrows, they've been mapped as CTRL-(something) keys
[12:47] <DktrKranz> right arrow is now CTRL+C, it broke my download
[12:48] <Yagisan> DktrKranz, checked the vmware forums ?
[12:48] <DktrKranz> I was planning to do it
[12:48] <DktrKranz> since I can't find any rationale behind this
[12:51] <Yagisan> google suggests vmware is to blame. pm'd you a link DktrKranz
[12:52] <DktrKranz> thanks
[12:53]  * Yagisan -> off to install xubuntu
[13:29] <nhandler> I'm working on a merge, and I am a little unclear about one of the old Ubuntu changes. The change removed dpkg-distaddfile from debian/rules so that "the package gets uploaded properly". From the man page, I saw that dpkg-distaddfiles adds the specified files to debian/files. However, I am not 100% clear about what this file is used for. Could someone either help clear this up or link me to some documentation about this?
[13:29] <pochu> DktrKranz: sure, I'll look at it (gstreamer dvd playback)
[13:41] <slytherin> pochu: which bug about gstreamer dvd playback are you talking about?
[13:44] <pochu> where did he go? :)
[13:49]  * iulian looks for dfiloni
[13:58] <sebner> iulian: found :P
[13:58] <iulian> I know I'm a psychic, sebner ;)
[13:58] <iulian> dfiloni: Hey, do you work on mapnik merge?
[13:59] <sebner> heh
[13:59] <dfiloni> iulian: take it
[13:59] <iulian> Thanks
[14:21] <karooga> hi, if a package written by [1] is based a library written by [2] - does [2] become an 'Upstream Author' in copyright?
[14:22] <karooga> the library src is distributed with the package btw.
[14:48] <karooga> anyone around to answer some qs on copyright files?
[14:49] <pochu> karooga: yes
[14:50] <pochu> karooga: if those you asked before: no, using a Library doesn't make the library authors authors of your application
[14:50] <pochu> karooga: and no need to list them in debian/copyright
[14:51] <karooga> pochu: really?  coz in the COPYING file of orig source, the lib author is mentioned...
[14:51] <pochu> karooga: furthermore, you are encouraged to get (if it's not already) the library in the archive, and use the library from the archive with your package, instead of the copy shipped with your tarball
[14:51] <pochu> (if possible)
[14:52] <pochu> karooga: perhaps I didn't understand it well... Is it an application which uses a library, and ships the library in its tarball?
[14:52] <karooga> pochu: mmm... it would seem that the library has been granted special perms to be used for this application.  Lib author sells a $$ version.
[14:52] <pochu> ah
[14:53] <karooga> pochu:  python package which makes calls to the library.
[14:53] <pochu> it would be interesting what terms are those... possibly they make the library non-free
[14:53] <karooga> pochu: do you think I am barking up the wrong tree? :-)
[14:54] <geser> karooga: can you pastebin the COPYING file from the lib?
[14:54] <karooga> geser: sure http://paste.ubuntu.com/69227/
[14:55] <karooga> geser: I've emailed the author of the library for confirmation of LGPL-3...
[15:00] <geser> karooga: if you package both you should list both upstreams in the copyright file
[15:02] <karooga> geser: you mean package both in the same package?
[15:03] <StevenHarperUK_> Hi my new package is in pending : however it only appears to be in jaunty, I supplied diffs for the Hardy and Intrepid releases, will the get processed also?
[15:03] <StevenHarperUK_> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/easycrypt/
[15:03] <iulian> Would anyone like to upload this patch - http://paste.ubuntu.com/69228/plain/ ?
[15:04] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: Did you subscribe motu-sru to the bug?
[15:04] <StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: no, I didnt know I had to
[15:04] <ScottK> DktrKranz: If you're around, SRU processing assistance needed ^^^
[15:09] <StevenHarperUK_> AcottK; Should I subscribe the bug now anyway? or is it too late?
[15:09] <StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: * ^^
[15:10] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: Not to late.
[15:10] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: SRU has to happen after it's fixed in the development release anyway.
[15:11] <StevenHarperUK_> Scottk: ok ill do that and posta  comment so they get it: will that be enough?
[15:11] <cody-somerville> If I was to add support to dput to have a special URI for PPAs, would folks prefer lp:<ppa-id> or ppa:<ppa-id>?
[15:11] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: See wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates for details on the process.
[15:11] <pochu> cody-somerville: imho ppa:
[15:12] <slytherin> cody-somerville: ppa:
[15:12] <StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: thanks
[15:13] <geser> karooga: at first yes, unless the lib is bigger and can be used by itself
[15:13] <StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: I like the pending sru page very handy
[15:17] <StevenHarperUK_> Scottk: I understand nearly all of that process - just this bit I dont fully get "pload the fixed package to release-proposed"
[15:17] <superm1> cody-somerville, are you running into a situation that is pulling all of gnome into xfce jaunty disks?
[15:18] <superm1> at least live disks
[15:18] <karooga> geser: ok cool.  Re: the header of the licence in debian/copyright, do i understand that only upstream src should have the licence files and in the package i just include a link to /usr/share/common-licences?
[15:18] <cody-somerville> superm1, I haven't had a chance to look at them yet. I'm in Lexington atm.
[15:18] <ScottK> StevenHarperUK_: You need a MOTU to do that for you.
[15:18] <\sh> moins
[15:19] <superm1> cody-somerville, well i suspect you will be affected by the same problem that i'm seeing when porting mythbuntu live disks to use livecd-rootfs
[15:19] <superm1> cody-somerville, gdm depends upon: "gnome-session | xterm | x-window-manager | x-terminal-emulator,"
[15:19] <StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: ok I seem to have done all of teh rest of teh process
[15:19] <StevenHarperUK_> ScottK: Thanks for teh help
[15:19] <superm1> which since the metapackages list xfce4-terminal "after" gdm cause a problem.
[15:19] <superm1> it might be okay with tasks, but i dont know for sure
[15:21] <slytherin> geser: Do you have some time to ack bug 295524?
[15:22]  * sebner winks \sh 
[15:22] <\sh> hey sebner...:)
[15:23] <\sh> sebner: up for some action? ,-)
[15:23] <sebner> \sh: in what regard? :P
[15:24] <\sh> sebner: new package ,-)
[15:24] <sebner> \sh: so?
[15:24] <\sh> sebner: this one: http://dojotoolkit.org/ ,-)
[15:24] <\sh> sebner: we need it for zend-framework ,-)
[15:25] <sebner> \sh: wth? XD
[15:25] <sebner> \sh: btw, noticed my mail? you don't need to answer if you don't want of course =)
[15:26] <\sh> sebner: I think I have a mail backlog since monday...which means more then 4k mails in my inbox...I'll deal with it next monday
[15:27] <\sh> it's hard to concentrate when you have a forking woman at home
[15:27] <sebner> \sh: don't worry. circumstances
[15:27] <sebner> argh
[15:27] <nixternal> forks are evil!
[15:27] <sebner> xD
[15:27] <nixternal> never fork a woman, they start to get buggy!
[15:28] <\sh> nixternal: yeah...belly is really showing some strance behaviour
[15:28] <\sh> strange even
[15:28] <nixternal> oh, I must have read that wrong :P
[15:28] <\sh> lol
[15:28] <nixternal> to early to get jokes I guess
[15:28]  * \sh needs to earn more money ... for sure
[15:28] <\sh> nixternal: no..over the 3 M timeline
[15:29] <geser> karooga: if the used license is included in /u/s/c-l/ than a reference in debian/copyright is enough (else you need to copy the whole license text into it)
[15:31] <\sh> nixternal: please share with me: "what did you expect when I write about fork" ,-)
[15:32]  * \sh needs more alc...
[15:33] <geser> slytherin: ACKed, do I see it correct that imagej can be moved to universe after the sync?
[15:33] <slytherin> geser: yes, I will file a separate bug for that.
[15:33] <slytherin> geser: One merge coming your way if you are available for another hour.
[15:37] <pochu> slytherin: we were talking about bug 260765
[15:38] <slytherin> pochu: I remember seeing another bug similar to what I faced few days ago. There are some assertion failure produced by libdvdnav which causes segfault. I don't remember the bug number.
[15:41] <superm1> cody-somerville, okay well i'm going to do an upload of gdm without that explicit depend on gnome-session.  i think gdm should be fine without it since gnome-session is pulled in by metapackages for ubuntu-mobile and ubuntu-desktop
[15:41]  * cody-somerville nods.
[15:41] <superm1> now i've just got to wait 4 more days for this build to actually happen so i can make sure the livefs looks right :)
[16:03] <karooga> is license associated with packaging == license of program?
[16:05] <superm1> karooga, not always, but it's generally easier to write debian/copyright when you use the same license
[16:06] <karooga> thanks superm1
[16:07] <slytherin> geser: bug #295539
[16:11] <slytherin> does ubuntu wiki have any shortcut for launchpad bug urls?
[16:23] <ScottK> Hobbsee, jdong, and wgrant: I was wrong.  It's not that a backports upload will close tasks against backports, it's that it'll close a task against Ubuntu.  See Bug #295621
[16:24] <slytherin> why has this bug cropped up again?
[16:27] <ScottK> You don't really want me to answer that.
[16:28] <sebner> ScottK: is it possible to remove a package from every archive (jaunty -> dapper)?
[16:28] <ScottK> sebner: No.
[16:28] <sebner> ScottK: only jaunty, rigt?
[16:28] <sebner> *right
[16:28] <ScottK> Yes.
[16:28] <sebner> ah true. You once told me. thx
[16:29] <ScottK> I think in an extreme case (Like Canonical loses a lawsuit) it's possible, but not generally.
[16:30] <slytherin> does anyone know if it is possible to share a dvd drive over firewire network?
[16:33] <sebner> ScottK: would you mind take a look at bug #295623
[16:34]  * sebner is out for dinner
[16:34] <ScottK> sebner: Why?
[16:47] <hagabaka> why does the shoes package depend on rubygems? the library itself doesn't
[16:49] <sebner> ScottK: because I was hungry? ^^
[16:50] <ScottK> sebner: No, why dump qmail?  See my comment in the bug.
[16:51] <sebner> ScottK: Ah. I'm really wondering since it's buildable in debian .. and do really so many people download our qmail source?
[16:52] <ScottK> sebner: Qmail is a very unique package.  I don't know of any other open source program that has a strong following a decade after upstream abandoned it.
[16:52] <ScottK> sebner: If it's buildable in Debian, make it buildable on Ubuntu.
[16:53] <ScottK> Until recently you couldn't ship patched binaries, so source was all we could ship.
[16:53] <sebner> ScottK: It was never in ubuntu so I think this task is too high for me (for now) ..., and besides .. that's the reason why I asked you to look at the bug ;)
[16:54] <ScottK> OK.  Well I gave you an opinion.
[16:55] <DktrKranz> wasn't qmail "you can modify it only if I gave you permission to do so" software?
[16:55] <ScottK> DktrKranz: It was.  It's not any more.
[16:55] <DktrKranz> great
[16:56] <ScottK> Actually it was more like "You have to distribute it exactly the way I made it - ship patches separately."
[16:56] <slytherin> how come such a package even entered in Debian?
[16:56] <ScottK> slytherin: I think it was in non-free.
[16:56] <slytherin> ahh
[16:57] <DktrKranz>      qmail |    1.03-47 | unstable/non-free | source
[17:02] <slytherin> is tomorrow the Debian RC day?
[17:02] <ScottK> IIRC yes, but feel free to start early.
[17:03] <sebner> ScottK: ok, so thx for you help
[17:04] <ScottK> sebner: No problem.  If you were MOTU already would you have sent that bug to an archive-admin or would you still have asked?
[17:05] <sebner> ScottK: I was pretty sure that the best is to remove it *but* as this was the very first removal bug I ever filed I would have ask also as a MOTU
[17:06] <ScottK> sebner: OK.  Just so you know, if a MOTU sends a removal bug to the archive-admins they generally don't think about it very hard.  They assume the MOTU knows what they are talking about.
[17:07] <sebner> ScottK: also, one thing that was interesting to me was that wikipedia says that qmail is still very popular in unix and linux so I was wondering and wouldn't have removed it
[17:07] <ScottK> OK.
[17:07] <sebner> ScottK: at least they would wonder if a MOTU sends a please remove Firefox3 or gnome stuff ^^
[17:08] <DktrKranz> sebner, a removed package can be restored, but better double-check it before ;)
[17:09] <sebner> ScottK: but again. thx. I'll be more carefully with that stuff in future (and I'm not saying that because you will comment on my MOTU application ;))
[17:09] <sebner> DktrKranz: sure =). more money to pay you :P
[17:09]  * DktrKranz never imagined to sponsor a fix from his "neighbour"
[17:10] <ScottK> sebner: True.  Those are in Main and would need a core-dev.  I did howerver recently get firefox removed.
[17:10] <sebner> ScottK: -2 is obsolete :)
[17:10] <ScottK> Yep.
[17:10] <DktrKranz> sebner, he asked to remove firefox-3, use midori instead ;)
[17:10] <sebner> hihi
[17:11] <sebner> DktrKranz: I'd rather say konquerer as he is a kde guy :P
[17:11] <DktrKranz> lynx, so everyone's happy
[17:11] <sebner> :D
[17:12] <ScottK> I do mostly use Konqueror.  I mostly just use FF for sites that don't work with Konqueror.  Much as I used to do with IE.
[17:12] <ScottK> Firefox - The new Internet Explorer.
[17:12] <sebner> heh
[17:13] <Laney> Can someone merge my LP branch into ubuntu-dev-tools? It's just adding jaunty to known releases in various scripts. bzr merge lp:~laney/ubuntu-dev-tools/dev
[17:14] <DktrKranz> Firefox - The browser formerly known as Internet Explorer
[17:14] <DktrKranz> (as much as Prince)
[17:14] <ScottK> Well I know how many security uploads FF has had and how many Konqueror has had.
[17:15] <slytherin> is bug 262649 worth a SRU?
[17:17] <iulian> DktrKranz: Hiya. Can I steal the node merge from you?
[17:18] <DktrKranz> iulian, definitely ;)
[17:18] <iulian> Cool, thanks.
[17:22] <iulian> Errk!
[17:23] <iulian> Too many OOPSES from launchpad today.
[17:23] <cody-somerville> iulian, what number?
[17:24] <iulian> I got a few numbers but lost them because I refreshed the page.
[17:24] <iulian> I'll paste you the current one.
[17:24] <iulian> cody-somerville: (Error ID: OOPS-1043ED80)
[17:25] <iulian> cody-somerville: Just refreshed again: (Error ID: OOPS-1043EC65).
[17:25] <iulian> If it helps, I can paste here more.
[17:26] <iulian> By the way, this is when I try to file a bug.
[17:26] <cody-somerville> iulian, against?
[17:27] <iulian> cody-somerville: I only wrote the summary of the bug. I wanted to report against the node package.
[17:28] <iulian> cody-somerville: After I clicked "Continue", it gave me those oopses.
[17:29] <iulian> cody-somerville: It works now.
[17:36]  * jdong muses over issuing "prevu prevu"
[17:36]  * sebner never got prevu working :P
[17:36] <jdong> sebner: what was wrong?
[17:37] <sebner> jdong: it was preparing a jaunty chroot instead of intrepid
[17:38] <jdong> sebner: DIST=intrepid sudo -E prevu-init?
[17:39] <iulian> DktrKranz: Would you like to have a look at the node merge? It should be easy to review.
[17:39] <sebner> jdong: ah no. I wanted a hardy environment ^^. well I changed my sources.list to hardy and run prevu-init like the wiki says (you really should update the wiki page)
[17:40] <DktrKranz> iulian, I'm after a FTBFS, once I figured it out, I could give it a try
[17:40] <iulian> DktrKranz: Sure, thanks a lot.
[17:40] <jdong> sebner: yeah I need to update that a bit. Use the DIST env variable to affect what the target distro is, and remember -E to sudo so that it doesn't strip out the environment
[17:40]  * sebner hugs jdong =)
[17:41] <ScottK> sebner: It's a wiki.  Go for it.
[17:42] <sebner> ScottK: heh, right. I'm just afraid that my english is more like opensource than freeware =)
[17:43] <emgent> heya
[17:44] <iulian> Hi emgent.
[17:47] <slytherin> sebner: if it is opensource, someone will improve it. :-)
[17:47] <sebner> slytherin: heh. I'm afraid that you are the only one who got that joke :P
[17:49]  * slytherin proposes proper English communication as prerequisite for those who are applying for MOTU membership. :-P
[17:49] <sebner> heh
[17:49] <emgent> heya iulian
[17:54] <geser> sebner: your English isn't that bad that it would be better you when you were writing in deutsch so people have a better chance to understand you :)
[17:55] <sebner> geser: at least for non-germans :P
[17:55] <sebner> though also there sometimes strange words appear ^^
[17:56] <ScottK> Well maybe not even all Germans.
[17:56] <sebner> ScottK: so?
[17:56] <ScottK> When we had German students living here there were times when my wife (who speaks German) would have to translate among Germans from different parts of the country.
[17:57] <slytherin> geser: can you please take a look at bug 262649 and see if it is worth a SRU?
[17:57] <sebner> ScottK: your are definately right with that ;)
[17:57] <sebner> ScottK: your wife speaks german. COOL =)
[17:57] <geser> I've seen a report on tv recently which had german subtitles for the spoken dialect
[17:58] <sebner> geser: But I think only "Kölsch" is not understandable, right?
[18:00] <geser> sebner: "Schwäbisch" or "Bayrisch" is also hard to understand
[18:01] <geser> Sächsisch is also nice to hear :)
[18:01] <sebner> geser: Bayrisch not for us Autrians :P
[18:01]  * RainCT does not understand schwäbisch but was born there XD
[18:02] <`Chris> Hello, currently I have started packaging this project. When it is finished, where do I go to upload it?
[18:02] <geser> a friend of mine comes from Franken. When she uses fränkisch I had to ask her several times what some words mean :)
[18:02] <slytherin> `Chris: which project is it?
[18:02] <sebner> tell Chris about revu
[18:02] <sebner> !tell Chris about revu
[18:02] <`Chris> qbittorrent
[18:02] <sebner> !REVU | CarlFK
[18:02] <RainCT> !revu | `Chris
[18:02] <sebner> argh
[18:02] <sebner> xD
[18:03] <slytherin> whatever happened to limiting revu to UUCs only?
[18:03] <ScottK> slytherin: It's been discsussed a bit.  That's it.
[18:03] <geser> slytherin: how common is it that people don't have openjdk installed and only an other java-vm?
[18:03] <RainCT> (btw, has anyone here used tbeta/mtmini/something like that?)
[18:03] <`Chris> Should I get it from Debian or use the tar?
[18:03] <`Chris> from the official site
[18:04] <slytherin> geser: many people still prefer to use Sun JRE.
[18:04] <CarlFK> huh? :)
[18:04] <sebner> CarlFK: sry =)
[18:04] <CarlFK> no prob - that's what I get for sleeping around in all these channels :)
[18:05] <slytherin> `Chris: if debian has it, why are you packaging it?
[18:05] <sebner> Chris: If it's in Debian it will be synced automatically to ubuntu. no need to package from scratch
[18:05] <geser> slytherin: do those people also deinstall openjdk?
[18:05]  * sebner is off for a while
[18:05] <neurobuntu> what does: debian/rules:44: *** commands commence before first target.  Stop., mean?
[18:05]  * iulian is looking for someone to upload this trivial patch: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69228/plain/
[18:05] <jdong> sebner: per your request I just refreshed the prevu documentation :)
[18:05] <geser> slytherin: if I understand the problem correctly, it's not about the use of an alternative java-vm but just the dependencies
[18:05]  * sebner hugs jdong 
[18:05] <`Chris> slytherin: I was following the MOTU videos, it is not yet in Ubuntu and I found it over in Debian. I thought it'd be nice to get it into Ubuntu too
[18:06] <slytherin> geser: not likely. I use Sun JRE in office because I know everything java works with it. I don't have openjdk installed. At home I play around only with openjdk.
[18:06] <slytherin> `Chris: it will automatically enter Ubuntu in this development cycle.
[18:07] <slytherin> geser: yes, just the dependency.
[18:07] <geser> slytherin: then I guess it's not worthy an SRU (IMHO), but you're free to talk to MOTU SRU about it
[18:07] <`Chris> Oh, Debian developers stealing my fun
[18:07] <geser> iulian: why are you bumping the compat level? any specific reason?
[18:08] <CarlFK> `Chris: you have an odd idea of fun:)
[18:08] <slytherin> geser: I should have noticed it when I was working on MoveToUniverse. I will talk with motu-sru.
[18:08] <slytherin> `Chris: you want to have some fun. try fixing FTBFS with jboss packages. :-D
[18:08] <geser> oh, this is really big fun :)
[18:09] <`Chris> From jboss.org?
[18:09] <slytherin> geser: by the way, did you see my debdiff for libjogl-java?
[18:10] <geser> yes, I've it opened in my browser but didn't had time yet to look at it
[18:10] <slytherin> `Chris: no, the packages are in Ubuntu. Just that they fail to build. Of course, if build failures can be fixed by updating them that will be great.
[18:10] <slytherin> ok
[18:10] <`Chris> I'll see if I can spend this hour on it then, I guess it's gonna be hard since you lot have put it off :p
[18:11] <iulian> geser: Not really, no. Every package I maintain uses dh 7.
[18:11]  * slytherin - it feels nice to know, that most programs quit with Ctrl + Q shortcut.
[18:14] <geser> iulian: if there is no specific reason for those changes, then please don't do them as they increase the delta to Debian for no good reason and make backporting a little bit harder.
[18:14] <iulian> geser: The package is not in Debian.
[18:15] <geser> that's different then (I didn't check very closely)
[18:18] <slytherin> geser: should we plan to kill Sun Java 5 in jaunty?
[18:41] <slytherin> if the upstream tar ball contains documentation in PDF format (along with source in .sxw format) should the PDF documentation be removed while creating .orig.tar.gz?
[18:44] <DktrKranz> iulian, I should have managed my FTBFS (finally!), which is bug #?
[18:45] <DktrKranz> (node merge, I mean)
[18:46] <iulian> DktrKranz: It's bug #295646
[18:46] <ScottK> slytherin: Why would you do that?
[18:47] <slytherin> ScottK: I am just asking.
[18:47] <geser> slytherin: don't change the .orig.tar.gz if it's not necessary (e.g. for DSFG freeness)
[18:47] <ScottK> Ideally you should build the PDF from the provided source I guess.
[18:47] <ScottK> But as geser says, no need to repack the tarball.
[18:48] <slytherin> ScottK: that will anyway happen I guess when I run the doc target in ant build file.
[18:48] <geser> slytherin: you can rm the pdf in the clean target if you want (but wouldn't that imply that you need to build-depend on openoffice to recreate it?)
[18:49] <slytherin> geser: I will first check if the target creates PDF and how.
[18:51] <DktrKranz> iulian, I'm not a supporter of bumping Standards-Version in Ubuntu, others could think about it differently. Also, libax25-dev change is useful just to have lintian happy.
[18:52] <Elbrus> slytherin: I would be interested in how to do it, I could not get it to work
[18:52] <iulian> DktrKranz: OK, I will attach a new debdiff in a moment.
[18:52] <DktrKranz> anyway openbsd-inetd | inet-superserver change was controversial (I can't remember bug #'s, but some DDs were against this change)
[18:54] <iulian> DktrKranz: Will remove that too.
[18:55] <swegner> What's the proper format for a version string for packages uploaded to a PPA which don't have a native debian or ubuntu equivalent package?
[18:55] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Actually Ubuntu Policy explicitly says don't bump standards version.
[18:55] <ScottK> iulian: ^^
[18:56] <DktrKranz> iulian, well... that change can stay, I was curious to see that discussion, just to make sure it's a wanted change
[18:56] <DktrKranz> not sure why it was introduced in Ubuntu some cycles ago
[18:56] <iulian> ScottK: Oh, didn't know that, thanks.
[18:57] <DktrKranz> but we carry it from there, and this will probably happen forever
[18:58] <DktrKranz> ScottK, was it made policy? I wasn't aware of that
[18:59] <ScottK> DktrKranz: Yes.  We now have an ubuntu-policy (I think that's what it is called) package and it's in there.
[19:00] <DktrKranz> here it is: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/debian-policy/ubuntu/revision/319
[19:01] <iulian> DktrKranz: What about the debhelper version. Is it ok to bump it from 2 to 6? IMHO version 2 is too ancient.
[19:02] <DktrKranz> I'd ask Debian to do so for us
[19:02] <iulian> OK.
[19:02] <DktrKranz> unless there are valid reasons to do so (e.g. FTBFS, uncompatibility, whatever)
[19:03] <iulian> Right.
[19:04] <DktrKranz> mh... ntp is broken again... why it tells me it's 18:33 UTC?
[19:04] <DktrKranz> I lost half an hour!
[19:07] <iulian> DktrKranz: This is it: http://paste.ubuntu.com/69313/plain/
[19:08] <jfcgauss_> how do i add packages to my launchpad PPA? how do i set my PPA (for instance i want to target hardy but i see apt sources.list entries:
[19:08] <jfcgauss_> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/jfcgauss/ubuntu jaunty main     under my PPA.
[19:08] <iulian> DktrKranz: If needed I'll attach it to LP as well.
[19:11] <iulian> DktrKranz: Attached it to launchpad.
[19:21] <DktrKranz> iulian, done
[19:25] <iulian> DktrKranz: Thanks a lot.
[19:31] <emgent> someone know in what package is lzm2dir ?
[19:31] <geser> jfcgauss_: have you read https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
[19:32] <bobbo> emgent: dpkg -S /path/to/lzm2dir should work
[19:32] <geser> emgent: packages.u.c doesn't know that file
[19:33] <emgent> geser: know..
[19:33] <geser> emgent: are you sure it's packaged?
[19:34] <emgent> geser: i think so
[19:34] <emgent> bobbo: i dont have it installed.
[19:34] <geser> hmm, packages.d.o doesn't know it either
[19:34] <emgent> okkay i will investigate about it.
[19:36] <geser> emgent: a quick google search found http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/how-do-i-decompress-lzm-files-586399/?s=b60963bc1eec224ba4954d26ad5c6aa9
[19:37] <geser> emgent: http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/alfredo/sagelivecd/sage_livecd/SAGE/tools/lzm2dir is that script
[19:37] <emgent> yep saw that
[19:37] <sebner> ember: thx for this comment! Did you just CC me or have did you forget to send it to the MC mailing list?
[19:37] <emgent> but i thought that this file was packaged.
[19:38] <emgent> also my email seems broken.. sebner you saw my email ?
[19:38] <swegner> I have a small project that I've been maintaining in a PPA but I think I'd like to get it packaged for Ubuntu.  Am I better off going through the packaging process for Ubuntu, or try to package it for Debian?
[19:38] <sebner> emgent: yep. and you once wrote stefar instead of stefan :P
[19:38] <emgent> argh
[19:39] <sebner> emgent: nvm, np
[19:40] <Elbrus> swegner: the nicest is to try to get it into Debian
[19:41] <Elbrus> but Ubuntu is usually slightly easier
[19:42] <swegner> Elbrus: yeah, that's what I've generally gleaned from the wiki so far.  I think I'll probably try to go with Ubuntu,
[19:43] <swegner> To follow up: I've been maintaining the debian/ directory inside the same source control as the project, simply because it's been convenient for me.  When it's packaged for Ubuntu, does the debian directory need to be specifically separate from the source?
[19:45] <ScottK> It's easier for us if it's not included in the upstream tarball.
[19:46] <swegner> Ok, so I'll split that off and start getting it ready for review
[19:49] <swegner> Last question: I was getting pretty confused about the version numbering with upstream releases, etc.  If I'm getting a new package ready for Ubuntu and not Debian, should the changelog string
[19:49] <swegner> {package-name} ({packageversion}-ubuntu1~ppa1) intrepid; urgency=low
[19:50] <Elbrus> swegner: looks right to me
[19:50] <Elbrus> but when uploading to REVU you want to remove the ~ppa1 part
[19:50] <Adri2000> should be upstreamversion-0ubuntu1
[19:51] <nhandler> swegner: You should also target 'jaunty' instead of 'intrepid'
[19:51]  * Elbrus is keeping his mouth shut and hides under a stone
[19:52] <swegner> alright great-- thanks everyone for their help!
[19:52] <directhex> whatever happened to the monthly naked wallpaper of ye olde releases?
[19:52]  * RainCT notes that it isn't actually that hard to get a package into Debian
[19:53]  * directhex agrees with RainCT 
[19:53] <nhandler> RainCT: Aren't they frozen for Lenny right now?
[19:54] <RainCT> nhandler: yes, that will probably make it harder to get stuff sponsores right now
[19:54] <ScottK> swegner: -0ubuntu1
[19:54] <RainCT> nhandler: but I think stuff can still enter sid (but won't transition to lenny then), or else there's experimental anyway
[19:55] <directhex> RainCT, the reverse - getting things in now is fairly easy, as they'll just be frozen in sid. they aren't gonna bother the release managers
[20:15] <emgent> nice ubuntu alias seems broken
[20:15] <emgent> someone can confirm it ?
[21:24] <karooga> anyone using the "legal" section on revu?  Looks new and looks like I have a *lot* of errors...
[21:24] <ScottK> karooga: It is new.  It's not meant to give you a definitive good/error result, but to tell you what to look at.
[21:25] <karooga> ScottK: mmm... seems to insist that every src file has a copyright at the top...
[21:26] <ScottK> karooga: That is how it is supposed to be.
[21:26] <ScottK> Copyright and license (at least the header part).
[21:27] <ScottK> karooga: Lack of it won't get the package rejected (you MUST have a full copy of the license in the upstream tarball), but it should be that way and it's worth asking upstream to fix.
[21:27] <RainCT> karooga: that's just the output of  licensecheck -r --copyright
[21:28] <karooga> ScottK: whew...  ok, I can check that off the list then.
[21:28] <ScottK> karooga: Do ask upstream to fix it though.
[21:28] <ScottK> RainCT: Cool.  It's getting used.
[21:28] <karooga> thanks RainCT.
[21:28] <RainCT> ScottK: :)
[21:30] <karooga> ScottK: "Getting used"..???  I'm getting grey hairs.  As fast as I try to wrap this mickey mouse package up, revu keeps telling me there are more and more problems. :-P *sigh*
[21:30] <RainCT> heh
[21:30] <ScottK> karooga: You used the link to legal and asked about it about a day after RainCT put it up there, so that's good.
[21:31] <karooga> Anyone familiar with python modules?
[21:31] <ScottK> karooga: We're trying to reduce the number of problems with debian/copyright in submitted packages.
[21:31] <ScottK> karooga: Yes.
[21:32] <karooga> ScottK: got 5 minutes to look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=3880  ? PyEphem provides scientific-grade astronomical computations.
[21:32] <sebner> RainCT:  Next REVU Day: TODAY (Friday, November 7th 2008)   <-- Is really somewhere still friday on earth?
[21:33] <karooga> ScottK: only one day?  seriously?  Just my luck. :)
[21:33] <ScottK> karooga: I'm looking.  REVU day is just a day we try to focus there.  It's not the only day we look at stuff.
[21:35] <karooga> ScottK:  yeah, was referring to the legal link and my luck for picking today... hehe
[21:36] <ScottK> Oh.
[21:36] <ScottK> Well the stuff it point out we'd have looked for anyway.  Just makes it more obvious to you.
[21:36] <RainCT> sebner: Nop, thanks for noticing this :P. REVU should show the correct date within the next minutes.. :)
[21:36] <sebner> kay :)
[21:37] <RainCT> (it takes the date from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Headers/NextREVUDay, btw)
[21:37] <ScottK> karooga: Looking at your .diff.gz it looks good.  Does the package build correctly?
[21:39] <karooga> ScottK: there were two warnings re: orig-maintainer + Python-version using pbuilder.  I'm still running hardy... dunno if that makes a difference?
[21:40] <sebner> RainCT: if Friday remains you could leave "Friday" but fetch the time from a time server and then make if(time > timeatanyplaceonearth) ...
[21:40] <ScottK> karooga: Those are normal.  Is your pbuilder set up for Jaunty?
[21:40] <nhandler> RainCT: You could also set up a cron script to run editmoin
[21:40] <karooga> ScottK:  I have ln -s to intrepid, which is ln -s to hardy?
[21:41] <RainCT> sebner: I'd still have to update the wiki then (and would probably forget it :P)
[21:41] <RainCT> but nhandler's suggestion could work..
[21:41] <karooga> ScottK: all ready to backport you see.
[21:41] <sebner> heh
[21:41] <ScottK> karooga: Yes. and you can do the same for Jaunty or just update from hardy-backports.
[21:43] <karooga> ScottK: do you mean backports will fix the pbuilder scripts for jaunty? or that I need hardy-backports to dev backports?
[21:45] <ScottK> The updated debootstrap that has jaunty defined in it as well as an updated devscripts where dch defaults to jaunty (and the current lintian) can all be installed from hardy-backports.
[21:45] <karooga> ScottK: great.
[21:45] <ScottK> There is also an updated pbuilder package there, but that's not essential.
[21:49] <karooga> are there any tricks to handling multiple versions of the same program? e.g. [x] package for hardy, [x] package for jaunty etc?
[21:51] <ScottK> karooga: Bad news.
[21:51] <karooga> ScottK: hit me
[21:51] <ScottK> karooga: Look at the license statement in precess.c in libastro.
[21:52] <ScottK> karooga: "can't be sold" means the package will have to go into multiverse, not universe.  Not the end of the world, but you need to cover that license in debian/copyright.
[21:53] <ScottK> karooga: Also earthsat.c is copyright somebody else with no license statement.  As is, it's not distributable (that is a showstopper).
[21:54] <karooga> ScottK: you used legal didnt' you?
[21:55] <ScottK> karooga: No.  I used 'grep -ir copyright *'.
[21:55] <karooga> ScottK: ok, I missed that.  So would the next step be to try get upstream to include it?
[21:56] <ScottK> karooga: The legal stuff is often the hardest (and most important) to get right.
[21:56] <karooga> ScottK: line 10 copyright, is the showstopper?
[21:56] <ScottK> Yes.
[21:56] <ScottK> karooga: I see there is a google Code project for libastro.
[21:57] <ScottK> I'd suggest looking there and see if it's the same libastro.
[21:57] <ScottK> If it is, then perhaps it has license terms that are usable and we can remove the embedded copy.
[21:58] <ScottK> Unfortunately their svn is empty.
[21:58] <karooga> ScottK: I see that.
[21:59] <ScottK> karooga: So now it's a bit of a detecitve game then.
[21:59] <ScottK> The pyephem people no doubt grabbed libastro from somewhere and embedded a copy
[22:00] <karooga> ScottK: so all I'm trying to determine is, what licence applies specifically for that file?
[22:00] <ScottK> More generally with libastro.
[22:00] <ScottK> That's one spot that's very clearly problematic, but it's equally clear that the pyephem people didn't write libastro.
[22:01] <ScottK> So my advice is go hunt for the true source for libastro and see about how that's licensed.
[22:01] <karooga> ScottK: actually no they were 'given' permission to use it.  I confirmed this with libastro upstream that it was LGPL-3 earlier today.
[22:01] <ScottK> If it's distributable, then package that and dump the pyephem embedded copy.
[22:01] <ScottK> karooga: OK.  Can you package libastro from upstream then?
[22:04] <ScottK> karooga: Technically I think the package is fine with the exception of breaking libastro out into a separate binary package so others can use it (regardless of which place you get the source from) would be goo.
[22:04] <karooga> ScottK: am not sure.  As I understand the library comes from another program xephem... let me check xephems src
[22:05] <ScottK> OK.
[22:05] <karooga> ScottK: do you have library packaging experience (and patience)? :-)
[22:06] <ScottK> karooga: Some.  I need to leave shortly.  We do have some good docs on it.
[22:07] <karooga> ScottK: thanks you've been most helpful.  I need to go too.  Will check out in the morning.
[22:07] <ScottK> karooga: stefanlsd is decent with library packaging and sistpoty is our real expert.  Neither are here at the moment.
[22:09] <karooga> ScottK: great.  Thanks, I see what other details I can get regarding the source and take it from there.
[22:59] <gouki> I'm creating a man pages, following this (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/SupplementaryFiles#Man%20Pages) template but I have a few questions.
[23:00] <gouki> What is =over 8? Or what does it do?
[23:01] <RainCT> gouki: uhm not sure, try if it works without that
[23:02] <gouki> RainCT, OK. How can I test the manual?
[23:02] <RainCT> pod2man --section=1 --release=$(VERSION) --center "" debian/myapp.pod > myapp.1
[23:02] <Elbrus> gouki: I assume (not tested) that it is indenting?
[23:02] <RainCT> gouki: where debian/myapp.pod is the name of the file
[23:03] <gouki> Elbrus, hmm, not sure. I'll test it.
[23:03] <gouki> RainCT, doesn't that require me to install the package to test it?
[23:04] <RainCT> gouki: you only need perl for that
[23:04]  * RainCT is who has written the documentation for POD but is not sure what the "=over 8" is doing there :P
[23:04] <gouki> :)
[23:16] <gouki> RainCT, converting to HTML gave me a really good preview of how things are coming out :)
[23:17] <gouki> Now, after having the man page created, what do I need to add to debian/rules to include it on the package (or for it o be installed when  the package is installed).
[23:19] <RainCT> gouki: I think the wiki explains this too
[23:19] <RainCT> but basically just tell dh_installmanpages to take care of it
[23:20] <gouki> RainCT, the example on the wiki is for DCBS, I believe.
[23:20] <gouki> Ok, cool. Thanks RainCT .
[23:31] <murdok> hello. I'm trying to create a patch. It simply adds a file to /etc/sysctl.d. The problem is that this file should be removed once you remove the package, and instead, it's kept until I do remove --purge package
[23:31] <murdok> How do I do this file to be automatically removed?
[23:33] <RainCT> murdok: you could do it with a postrm, but I'm not sure if you actually want to do this :P
[23:33] <murdok> Yes i have thought about postrm
[23:33] <murdok> but I think it's a ugly solution
[23:34] <murdok> I have tried to find the code that says all the other files to be removed but i have not found it
[23:34] <RainCT> murdok: stuff in /etc is only supposed to be removed when a package is purged
[23:35] <murdok> really?? uhm
[23:35] <murdok> wait i'll try something
[23:41] <bdrung_> can someone from ubuntu-universe-sponsors have a look at bug #244613? i have created a patch for jaunty and one for intrepid-proposed last week, but i got no response.
[23:46] <murdok> RainCT: may be related to *.spec.in files? what are they for?
[23:46] <RainCT> murdok: I've never heard about them before :P
[23:47] <jmarsden> Is there a lintian that doesn't complain about jaunty yet?  If so, how can I install it under Intrepid (x86) ?
[23:47] <murdok> I have not found them in the wiki neither hehe :?
[23:48] <jmarsden> murdok: Files with a .in suffix are usually input files for autotools, I think?
[23:50] <murdok> jmarsden: I also think so but I don't know what are they exactly
[23:51] <jmarsden> RainCT: Your idea of #include <cstdlib> worked for koverartist, BTW -- now I just need a development env. for janty so I can rebuild stuff "properly"...
[23:52] <RainCT> jmarsden: great :)
[23:52] <RainCT> jmarsden: there shouldn't be any problem if you test it in intrepid, btw
[23:53] <jmarsden> RainCT: OK.  It builds fine under Intrepid locally and in an Intrepid pbuilder, so that's looking good.
[23:53] <RainCT> jmarsden: alright, create a debdiff and I'll look at it tomorrow or Monday
[23:53] <jmarsden> Cool, will do.
[23:56]  * RainCT grumbles about the fact that it's easier to create a multi-touch pad than to get a webcam working :P
[23:58] <gouki> RainCT, about pod2man, is this the correct command? pod2man --section=1 --release=$(VERSION) --center "" debian/myapp.pod > myapp.1
[23:59] <gouki> It's failing because of $(VERSION)
[23:59] <RainCT> gouki: yes, but replace myapp with the name of the executable
[23:59] <gouki> yeah
[23:59] <RainCT> gouki: and if it is a game/library/something you'll have to change the section
[23:59] <gouki> Yeah, it happens to be a game.
[23:59] <RainCT> gouki: OK, the section should be 6 then